If anything, we’re going to have more cheap junk.
With Baumol’s cost disease, we’re going to keep getting richer and services are going to keep getting more expensive, but manufactured goods will keep getting cheaper (relatively)
Like if you knock a hole in your wall, it’s probably cheaper to buy a tv to cover it up than to hire a drywall guy.
I now have a load bearing 195” plasma screen TV where my living room wall used to be. My daughter scuffed the wall and I didn’t have enough money to repaint it.
I am literally going to post two good working old computers on the internet for free today if you come and get them from my house. The alternative is I need to drive them over to a recycler.
Seriously.
That was actually after they had already come down quite a bit. The first mass produced flatscreen in the US was sold in 1997 for about $20k. [https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-consumer-electronics-hall-of-fame-fujitsu-plasma-tv](https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-consumer-electronics-hall-of-fame-fujitsu-plasma-tv)
Smart has driven prices down because manufacturers now get that sweet sweet data collection and advertising revenue. Dumb TVs are just cheaper because they tend to be older.
>Like if you knock a hole in your wall, it’s probably cheaper to buy a tv to cover it up than to hire a drywall guy.
It's funny... never thought of it like that but it's true!
>With Baumol’s cost disease, we’re going to keep getting richer and services are going to keep getting more expensive, but manufactured goods will keep getting cheaper (relatively)
It's interesting I thought about this the other day: hair clippers have been cheaper than a single haircut since 2020, at least for men
Can partially confirm this point. I bought a nice pair of Braun clippers back in 2020 right after Covid started for $80. Full service deal with hair and beard trimmers, along with other attachments for electric shavers. That thing paid for itself within a month. Clippers are still going strong. I use them every week and haven’t been to a barber in 4+ years.
There was a major skill gap in 2020 where I came out looking like I had stuck my head in a blender.
Four years later I’ve mastered fades, got my neckline straight, can blend longer lengths into shorter without creating visible borders. There’s no way I’m going back to paying someone to cut my hair, especially now that I’ve gotten used to doing it weekly.
MTG is certainly an addictive waste of time, but I wouldn't call it junk with the abundance of gorgeous artwork. Cost is the only reason I never got into Magic.
Many things shouldn't be reused though, and should just be recycled. The prime example is old appliances, especially refrigerators (like the one in the comic). They are almost always better off being replaced and recycled because they use a ton more electricity and refrigerants than new ones. Similarly, contrary to the beliefs of my hoarder father, nobody is ever going to read his collection of old newspapers and magazines. If he had a nice collection of National Geographic, or specific issues on particularly important events/topics, sure. But random coffee-stained and ripped copies of Newsweek are just going to go into the trash.
It might serve the public good to donate to [Open Library (Internet Archive)](https://openlibrary.org/about/donate) especially if your dad has more hard-to-find stuff.
Oh, he doesn't. It's all random trash, stored in piles of boxes filled with other random trash. If he had like, one big stack of xyz magazine, that would be one thing. But it's like a few random magazines in a box with some markers and clothes and a never-opened pack of Hydrox.
Consider this however: If it's recycled that opens up more space(a limited resource) in the garage to put even more old stuff in, so likely people will buy new stuff that will also end up in there sooner or later.
Therefore, assuming a limited fixed amount of storage space, just hoarding it and holding out hope that it will one day come to be useful is the best for the environment.
>Similarly, contrary to the beliefs of my hoarder father, nobody is ever going to read his collection of old newspapers and magazines. If he had a nice collection of National Geographic, or specific issues on particularly important events/topics, sure. But random coffee-stained and ripped copies of Newsweek are just going to go into the trash.
One great-grandmother on my mother's side of the family did exactly this. The earliest paper we have from her is from the Black Tom explosion, and there are several regarding things such as Pearl Harbor, the atomic bombings, Apollo 11, Kennedy being shot, etc.
Sadly, older stuff (at least the stuff that is still operating, don't forget) is more reliable than newer stuff. I really wanted to get rid of the old fridge in my old apartment but it was 40 years old and refused to die. Newer ones die in 10 years or less. I do know that they use more power and refrigerant but it's a trade off between the more simple older mechanical things (like old cars) and newer more complicated things which might be more efficient but break more easily and are harder to repair.
The cost of ownership of new appliances is considerably lower than that of old appliances, especially 40 year old fridges. You can almost certainly buy a new fridge every 5 years and run it for less than it costs to run your old one.
For sure, and that's my old landlords problem to deal with (honestly don't know how they would get that monster out of that tiny old place), but throwing fridges away is pretty wasteful.
My dad and I have every cover of Sports Illustrated since he started getting it in the late 50s. That’s one I imagine has some value, although I have zero interest in ever selling it.
Reduce, reuse, recycle is the motto and it’s in that order for a reason.
Although, as some others have commented, sometimes it really is more environmentally friendly to recycle as opposed to reusing. However, reducing is always #1.
There’s also “refuse” which comes before the more popular slogan (at least that’s how I recall it being taught in APES lol).
Refuse unnecessary consumption, reduce consumption if that’s not possible, then reuse, and lastly recycle
That's why we have monuments to it all across this beautiful country. The great and virtuous temples of self-storage. Definitely not a massive waste of (sub)urban space and energy to store boomer shit that won't be touched until they're dead, at which point it'll promptly move from storage to the landfill by their kids who never wanted it.
Also obligatory comment about cheap rent/places to live for cars and peoples' unnecessary shit, but not for actual people. Imagine all these massive, ugly as fuck self storage places being 5 story apartments instead. There's like half a dozen near my own neighborhood - often taking entire city blocks - where more housing is desperately needed. Sigh...they're no better than parking lots for peoples' shit.
I remember on NPR they were talking about the pandemic self-storage boom and they asked this guy why he moved a buncha stuff to storage, where is pays like $300/m rent. He said "no room in my place".
Reporter asks "why not just throw it out or donate it?"
"Because I want it back when I move to a bigger place."
"But you can't move now. Would that be easier with that $300 a month back?"
"Well, yeah. But I'm not gonna throw it away so..."
Made me wanna bang my head on a curb.
Hoarding is disease and it's a widespread one.
>That's why we have monuments to it all across this beautiful country. The great and virtuous temples of self-storage.
From a sociological or psychological perspective, I do honestly think you could say they have a ritual function. Preservation of value and of one's life achievements, compulsion to guard one's valuables against imagined-or-otherwise dangers, etc.
Helped my parents move recently. Oh my god the amount of shit they have is insane. My dad's totally down to get rid of shit, but my mom is barely having any of that.
They still have at least 20yrs in them, I hope; they're not even retired yet. But goddamn, I and my brother are not looking forward to going through all that shit.
Had to clean out my grandparents house about a year ago after they passed. Lots of rubbish but they were resourceful farmers so most stuff at least had a purpose at one point. But for some godforsaken reason my grandma hoarded newspapers/catalogues, basically anything paper she got by mail got stuffed in the spare garage. Wall to wall, floor to ceiling with like 45 years of papers.
Mail is such a scourge. Every day, the USPS dumps a bunch of stuff on you for you to sort through and deal with. I recently had a bonfire of years worth of detritus.
My parents sold their house to move to an apartment. They had to call in an auctioneer to get rid of all their stuff. I was very happy when I learned I wouldn't have to deal with.
My mother runs a small business that helps Seniors transition (move out, downsize, age in place etc). The amount of stuff that she has had to sell because none of the heirs want it (or theres no heirs at all) is so great that she was able to open a retail storefront with all of their stuff. Some of it is really nice, theres just so much of it.
I wonder how much the volume of cheap crap has changed with online shopping. Most of the trash that Shein, Temu and others traffic in already existed in dollar stores, strip malls, discount shops and the like. It's just accessible constantly now.
I just want to point out that Wish was extremely popular for a while and then the stock dropped >99% because apparently consumers DO get tired of garbage after a while.
Temu is currently seemingly doing the exact same thing, they are popular because they are spending billions in ads, but it remains to be seen whether they can maintain a customer base without that kind of spending.
I hate having to browse through pages of identical junk on Amazon. And physical retailers aren't much better, with shelves stocked with slightly different but equally shitty stuff.
I kinda yearn for a store that has a more curated selection, with a limited selection of higher-quality stuff (but not stupidly expensive "luxury" stuff). Is there a secret place that adults shop? My brain is still stuck being a cheap college kid in a lot of ways.
I guess at higher tier stores? Or even just mid-tier?
Amazon has so many dropshippers and scams now I never just buy things without double-checking first. You used to be able to reasonably expect Amazon was competitive if not the best price. Recently I've found almost always I can get a better price from the seller directly on their site, often with a promo code. With more options like GPay/Apple Pay, and maybe an email mask to avoid spam, buying from discrete sites like that isn't as painful anymore.
So for me I tend to look at like "Upscale Outlet" brands. I like Nordstrom Rack a lot for instance - better quality clothing while still being generally cheap with good service, good return policies, no bullshit scammers. Often just $10 for T shirts, $15 for button ups. Not too bad at all, despite Nordstrom itself having a reputation for like $$$$$.
But I really have found in my life that you get what you pay for, almost always. So even if it does cost more - like a shoe or something - it'll often last twice as long too. Especially for things you use every day like shoes, clothes, mattress, office chair - go bigger on those if you can, they're a bit more of an investment than a simple purchase.
Also I really gotta cancel my Prime subscription. Hasn't been worth it in ages.
> Also I really gotta cancel my Prime subscription. Hasn't been worth it in ages.
I canceled mine around the holidays. I still order a lot from them because I'm lazy, but just need to hit the $35 for free shipping, and wait a few extra days. If you do that, always double check that you've selected the free shipping option, 'cause otherwise they'll charge you $8 a shipment for 2-day by default (which is super shady and shitty of them).
Good points, thanks. We just placed a big order for some travel supplies but now that we're done, I think I'm just gonna go with your advice.
It's pretty easy to hit $35 if you need more than a couple items at a time, so that seems like a good way to go. I never use the Prime streaming and the cost per year just keeps going up.
This is me thinking about buying furniture once I finish up my undergrad, it feels like nowadays everything is either cheap particleboard garbage or ultra artisan-bespoke-luxury whatever. I just want some solid hardwood that I can buy once and be done with it
Furniture confuses me, too. When I got my first big boy job, I wen to the local big furniture store to upgrade my flatpack Walmart particle board stuff. But everything there was also just particle board, but already assembled, with a slightly nicer veneer, and 4x as expensive.
Yes it’s cheap per unit but not per item.
This is a big problem with my roommate, who believes you spend more on laundry detergent buying it at Costco or Sam’s club compared to the dollar store
> compared to the dollar store
Yeah no shit dollar stores are cheaper but there’s something to be said for choice in product selection, and buying in bulk for things like laundry detergent is convenient as hell
If you really want to get conspiracy minded, just think about the incentives for corporate food producers to develop a compound that counteracts the effects of GLP1 agonists. They'll pitch it as a "safe" alternative to Fluoride or Chlorine to add to the water supply.
I know there's a lot of anecdotal evidence about GLP1 drugs suppressing impulsive behaviors, but some peer-reviewed papers are coming out which indicate they are not very effective at preventing drug addicts and alcoholics from relapsing. So it's not a miracle drug in that department.
I suspect that the utility you get from consumption in itself is derived by absolute scarcity. Brands like shein are successful because they sell the act of consumption to consumers who used to only experience that infrequently.
Once the novelty wears off I expect consumer preferences to shift back toward the good itself.
I'm already pretty sick of it. I've started cutting off the bottom price tier on Amazon just so I can see something that isn't the same 5 products recycled through 150 companies that all have names like Furgodo and Bundax.
It's actually kind of frustrating if you don't want to buy cheap crap.
Like I'm looking to buy nice bedroom set, and what's described as "wood" even on expensive West Elm prices is just veneer particle board.
No never. There's two sides to this. Poor people who cyclically purchase low quality products because it's all they can afford and people who just impulsively shop because it's addicting.
The former I feel for, the latter I don't. It's even more frustrating when the person who screeches about capitalism being unethical purchases repeatedly from Shein, Temu, & Amazon every damn day. Call em out and it's always some pithy college freshman level excuse to justify their purchasing habits.
I'm not a rich man. In fact far from it. But I'm not in poverty either. I can't afford Loro Piana or Brunello Cucinelli where every garment is handmade in a safe factory in Italy by well paid workers. But I do try to minimize the amount of cheap plastic in my life and maximize the life of what I do buy. I shop at Ralph Lauren, Brooks Brothers Outlet, & Spier and Mackay during deep sales. I try to buy natural fabrics and things that will last 2-5 years instead of 2-5 months. H&M is cheaper but by 3 months in even their natural fabric stuff looks old and loses its shape. Over the lifetime of one oxford cloth shirt from BB I'd have probably spent the same or more on shirts from a fast fashion brand.
For middle and upper class America we should seriously at least try to buy more durable goods. It's not cheap, it ain't easy, but to me at least it's the most moral thing we can do without dropping $10k on a coat.
Do you hang dry? I feel like dumping everything in the dryer on the highest setting is the biggest thing people do that prematurely demolishes clothes.
The dryer is absolute worst place for your clothes. The lint trap fills up because your clothes are slowly disintegrating in there. Wash less, wash on cold and air drying is more sustainable and cheaper.
I noticed when I moved to Australia from the US all my clothes were lasting longer, and I came to the conclusion it was because we hang dry here. We don't even have a dryer in our house it's pointless most of the year. Now that we are coming into winter it's a bit of a pain, but for ecological and economical reasons it's so much better.
I have a huge issue with pants lasting more than a few years. I've tried a bunch of different brands.
I'm convinced the issue is that my big quads put too much strain on the pant legs. The only pants that have lasted for me are the ones with roomier thighs (mostly wool trousers). But most casual pants nowadays have very narrow legs at the waist size that fits me.
I have always used dryers and my clothes absolutely don't fall to shit they way people say, despite shooping pretty low quality like Target, Amazon, licensed stuff, etc. in general.
I never understood this because I've had clothes from H&M for a decade. Most of the clothes I had to give away or get rid of are just because I got too fat and or old to wear that style. Dryers are the enemy.
Nowadays there's almost no correlation between how expensive a garment is and how well it is made thanks to the supply chains. I have seen the same factory supply both Boohoo and Oliver Bonas (an overpriced yummy mummy store here in the UK).
I disagree. I used to spend way too much on some of the same brands and high end/American made clothing.
I found while it looked nicer and usually fit better, it wasn’t worth it. The correlation between price and how long it lasted was only very slightly positive.
I now still have the nice clothes that I wear on occasion, but only wear and buy cheap clothes for work and most days. Got some amazon basics polos for $7. Clothes from costco is cheap and also lasts a long time. My kirkland supima t shirts last just as long as my american made ones. I find im overall happier with having cheap clothes and saving money.
There’s a 10x difference in price for the same article of clothing but not a 10x difference in quality or longevity.
$7 polo for work and $70 polo for special occasion.
Some of my $20 jeans fit better than the $200 jeans I have.
I'm sorry but I disagree very hard. Anything cheap I've bought has been disappointing in terms of material quality, construction, and longevity.
I have vintage BB wool sweaters from my grandfather that have lasted decades with frequent wearing. I got some sweater from Amazon as a Christmas gift last year and it's falling apart even though I baby the thing and air dry it.
I will concede especially with BB & RL that some of the stuff they sell at full price is no longer worth it. But I don't buy at full price, always on sale at end of season from my local outlet.
Whatever happened to millennials being the “experiences, not things” generation…
Personally, both my late boomer parents have unholy quantities of shit in storage and in reaction to this I’m quite minimalist (by “1st world” standards).
It says so in the article.
We used to be in a long term trend where money spent shifted slowly from goods to services (i.e. spending on experience not things) up until 2019, then the pandemic introduced a massive shift to consumer goods over services and we've been here ever since.
IMO, generation theory is more or less bunk. Almost everything that was attributed to millenials when I was in my 20s is now being attributed to genZ.
Same with this. A lot of 20-somethings are moving around too much to want to accumulate stuff, so they focus on experiences that don't need closet space. Then they get older, get some more money, settle down, and become their parents. Except for those who rebel and become not their parents (maybe your kids will become maximilists in retaliation).
Well I think that more millennials (as a percentage) are minimalistic/"experience" focused than Xers and Boomers, but overall the percentage is still pretty small compared to the millenials who buy cheap shit from Walmart/Amazon/Zara.
Yeah I'm like that too, as is my wife, and it's in no small part because both of our families have so much shit in their house that it's legitimately stressful. Like, jars of jam older than I am - no joke.
It's not like dangerous, like piles of shit about to fall over and crush you (usually). I call it organized hoarding. But boomers really will just go buy a new TV when their old one has a minor technical problem. It stresses me out to be in their houses and I go out of my way to keep my de-cluttered. Ideally I'd be more successful, but it'll never look like their places.
Idk if minimalist is even the word. More just "if I don't use it every single week, I want it out of sight. If I use it even less than that...probably to Goodwill."
Funny part is both of our families use their huge piles of shit as an excuse to never move, too. Self-imposed obstacles if you ask me.
My parents are exactly the opposite, maybe because they grew up in a 3rd world country. I grew up with 'make do and mend'. Had to negotiate for everything. Everything got used until it literally was falling apart, from televisions to clothes and shoes. By the way, they are middle class people. My white Euro husband claims that 'they pretend that they don't have any money even though they are well-off compared to many people'.
It's kinda weird because that kinda describes my mother, who grew up pretty poor. But it's contradictory too, right? She likes to repair clothing and sew things, but she has an entire bedroom closet full of fabrics stacked to the top like a pyramid - she could never use this much fabric if she ran a textile business out of the house. She has like 3 sewing machines but only uses one of them. Why? Who can say. Why doesn't she sell off the old ones? Again, no god damn idea. Sometimes I think she has an almost depression-era inability to get rid of anything, even tho she's a boomer.
Similarly my dad is super handy and likes to repair things and not hire contractors, but at this point his tool bench eats half the garage. He must have 10 screwdrivers and 10 more hammers. So it's amusing you say that because the hoarding kind of stems from productive hobbies like that, and yet still you can't actually park any cars in that garage and haven't been able to for 20 year straight.
And for instance the jars of jam older than me I mentioned were homemade, and that's probably why they're hard to let go of. Again, leftover clutter from a productive hobby (cooking/canning things). Other clutter is stuff they brought back from traveling.
So yeah I guess in a sense it all has some sentimental value to them, and that's probably why they keep it. It's not a good enough reason IMO, but I can kinda understand the thought process.
I have too much fabric as well. Although mine stash is not floor-to-ceiling and I've been on an (almost) no-buy for quite a while now. I also have 2 machines, one is broken and I cannot find the energy to get it repaired. I just have too much to do. Maybe I'll give it away for free on Gumtree.
I was an experiences not things person until experiences went away for two years. It completely shifted my habits and it's been hard to get back to my old ways.
For example I went to 8 concerts in 2019 as well as a road trip to Los Angeles.
I've been to 2 concerts since 2020 and been on one vacation. Now it was my massive dream vacation, but I've noticed I've definitely started doing more pointless shopping since lockdown.
Also it feels like all the things required for experiences - flights, hotels, etc. have gotten exponentially more expensive whereas many consumer goods have gotten easier or stayed the same.
I used to go to Vegas annually for a week because it was such a cheap vacation. Like less than 200 for the flight. The rooms were less than 200 total if not comped outright by the hotel as part of a special. Now I'm seeing Vegas hotel rooms for 200 a night at the shittier casinos. It's absolute lunacy. And then they wonder why people aren't going and gambling as much.
Is this a white person thing. My middle class brown immigrant parents have really kept under control the amount of stuff they buy. My mother is always cleaning out the house. But we are in Europe and our houses are smaller.
I say this was all respect, but I've never heard such an innocuous statement that is yet so diametrically opposed to what I consider to bring me joy in life
I remember when I was in college, and I realized that Walmart sold 5 forks for a dollar. For $3, I had flatware sorted for a decade. For some reason, seeing the fork bin always makes me happy.
I feel like I barely buy anything for myself anymore because everything seems kind of shitty. I have enough liquor stashed away for the rest of my life probably so I’ve stopped buying that. I have enough gear for the amount of fishing I’m able to do. I find myself wandering around Target and don’t really see anything I want. When my kids are old enough to not ruin everything I’ll have to get some nicer furniture but that’s a ways off.
We've been sick of cheap junk for a long long time, but we can't afford the alternatives, if the alternatives even exist.
Fifty years ago, if you needed a new couch, you were either going to get a new one that was very expensive but built to last a long long time, or if you couldn't afford that you were going to obtain a used one that was built to last a long long time. Those were your only options.
Then Ikea and Target and Walmart came along with a third option: A cheap couch that might last five or six years. A couch that is **good enough for now** before you bought your permanent couch.
Then the good-enough-for-now couches took over the market and the permanent couches either disappeared or retreated to stores exclusively for the very wealthy. All we're left with is cheap junk because **they can make more money selling you a cheap couch every five years than a well-made couch every 20 years.**
The same process happened with clothing, appliances, toys, electronics, even cars. Even housing construction itself. A world of junk.
If anything, we’re going to have more cheap junk. With Baumol’s cost disease, we’re going to keep getting richer and services are going to keep getting more expensive, but manufactured goods will keep getting cheaper (relatively) Like if you knock a hole in your wall, it’s probably cheaper to buy a tv to cover it up than to hire a drywall guy.
Unironically already true lol you can get a secondhand 32" HDTV for like $100 ez
I now have a load bearing 195” plasma screen TV where my living room wall used to be. My daughter scuffed the wall and I didn’t have enough money to repaint it.
This is literally Fahrenheit 451
I thought they had 3 and sometimes 4 TV walls. So I'd say that puts us somewhere between Fahrenheit 112.75 and Fahrenheit 150.33
[удалено]
I am literally going to post two good working old computers on the internet for free today if you come and get them from my house. The alternative is I need to drive them over to a recycler. Seriously.
Walmart has a 32" ONN brand tv for $88.
If they're not smart TVs it's like $15 at this point. My old moment was when they first starting showing up in thrift stores.
God I remember when flat screens were in the upper hundreds - 1000 range lol
My parents bought a plasma TV when they were first hitting the market. It was damn near 2 grand and weighed more than 50 pounds.
That was actually after they had already come down quite a bit. The first mass produced flatscreen in the US was sold in 1997 for about $20k. [https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-consumer-electronics-hall-of-fame-fujitsu-plasma-tv](https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-consumer-electronics-hall-of-fame-fujitsu-plasma-tv)
Smart has driven prices down because manufacturers now get that sweet sweet data collection and advertising revenue. Dumb TVs are just cheaper because they tend to be older.
Well, they also don't require an xbox to hook up to YouTube.
tvs are just getting cheaper in general and have been for decades prior to smart tvs lol
I’ve seen new ones for not much more than that. I think the 32” unit I bought at Walmart a few years ago was $150 plus tax.
I bought one for $20. It was in great shape and had a great picture compared with what you can buy new in a store.
I mean, cheap 32" TVs are already less than $100 new.
>Like if you knock a hole in your wall, it’s probably cheaper to buy a tv to cover it up than to hire a drywall guy. It's funny... never thought of it like that but it's true!
This would make a great four panel comic
>With Baumol’s cost disease, we’re going to keep getting richer and services are going to keep getting more expensive, but manufactured goods will keep getting cheaper (relatively) It's interesting I thought about this the other day: hair clippers have been cheaper than a single haircut since 2020, at least for men
Can partially confirm this point. I bought a nice pair of Braun clippers back in 2020 right after Covid started for $80. Full service deal with hair and beard trimmers, along with other attachments for electric shavers. That thing paid for itself within a month. Clippers are still going strong. I use them every week and haven’t been to a barber in 4+ years.
There was a major skill gap in 2020 where I came out looking like I had stuck my head in a blender. Four years later I’ve mastered fades, got my neckline straight, can blend longer lengths into shorter without creating visible borders. There’s no way I’m going back to paying someone to cut my hair, especially now that I’ve gotten used to doing it weekly.
You studied the blade 😂
I literally just buzz my hair at this point instead of going to the barber.
You just gave me a different perspective on the 1 inch hole in my bathroom drywall.
Jesus you’re right. Thats fucking mind blowing
We might start getting cheaper services with a revolution in ai and robotics but that’s still pretty far out.
Well that at least gives me some optimism
When I needed a petsitter for 2 weeks, it was actually much cheaper to hire one in Ohio and fly them out to Seattle than to pay Seattle wages.
Obvious Ohio propaganda. Not a real place.
Wow that’s a sweet life hack
Sorry 🤚, I only buy expensive junk like Magic commander decks. Edit: and Legos.
I'm in this comment and I do like it
I mean, have you *seen* that [Batcave Lego](https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/batcave-shadow-box-76252)?
If I still had room I would have gotten Rivendell.
Right? Snagged a Japanese \[\[Phyrexian Tower\]\] (Urza's Saga) from my LGS for $30 and I'm riding that high three weeks later.
lol I don’t think the card fetcher works here.
!mods please fix this
Then Neoliberalism really is doomed.
u/mtgcardfetcher [[phyrexian tower|USG]]
[phyrexian tower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f915cf0-6273-4896-bf24-fb0ec17b6096.jpg?1562911669) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=10677) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/322/phyrexian-tower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f915cf0-6273-4896-bf24-fb0ec17b6096?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call ^^^- ^^^Summoned ^^^remotely!
Hell yeah
Fuck yes! Now I'm calling the fetcher in here all the time
MTG is certainly an addictive waste of time, but I wouldn't call it junk with the abundance of gorgeous artwork. Cost is the only reason I never got into Magic.
I’ve taught a friend how to play and he never financially recovered. Never complained, though.
I balance you out by ordering proxies of entire commander decks from China.
I order them from the library’s printer
https://preview.redd.it/kqk6yx8asfxc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef255e6937fefd33f8ea5f172b74f832466b6b37
Reusing instead of throwing away? Americans are very environmentally conscious.
Many things shouldn't be reused though, and should just be recycled. The prime example is old appliances, especially refrigerators (like the one in the comic). They are almost always better off being replaced and recycled because they use a ton more electricity and refrigerants than new ones. Similarly, contrary to the beliefs of my hoarder father, nobody is ever going to read his collection of old newspapers and magazines. If he had a nice collection of National Geographic, or specific issues on particularly important events/topics, sure. But random coffee-stained and ripped copies of Newsweek are just going to go into the trash.
It might serve the public good to donate to [Open Library (Internet Archive)](https://openlibrary.org/about/donate) especially if your dad has more hard-to-find stuff.
Oh, he doesn't. It's all random trash, stored in piles of boxes filled with other random trash. If he had like, one big stack of xyz magazine, that would be one thing. But it's like a few random magazines in a box with some markers and clothes and a never-opened pack of Hydrox.
My only problem with updating the appliances is the new LG, GE, Samsungs, Frigidaires, ect are all built to last 2-4 years.
Yep! It's criminal how low durability 'durable' goods are these days.
But you can get to space faster if there is no ozone layer!
Consider this however: If it's recycled that opens up more space(a limited resource) in the garage to put even more old stuff in, so likely people will buy new stuff that will also end up in there sooner or later. Therefore, assuming a limited fixed amount of storage space, just hoarding it and holding out hope that it will one day come to be useful is the best for the environment.
>Similarly, contrary to the beliefs of my hoarder father, nobody is ever going to read his collection of old newspapers and magazines. If he had a nice collection of National Geographic, or specific issues on particularly important events/topics, sure. But random coffee-stained and ripped copies of Newsweek are just going to go into the trash. One great-grandmother on my mother's side of the family did exactly this. The earliest paper we have from her is from the Black Tom explosion, and there are several regarding things such as Pearl Harbor, the atomic bombings, Apollo 11, Kennedy being shot, etc.
Sadly, older stuff (at least the stuff that is still operating, don't forget) is more reliable than newer stuff. I really wanted to get rid of the old fridge in my old apartment but it was 40 years old and refused to die. Newer ones die in 10 years or less. I do know that they use more power and refrigerant but it's a trade off between the more simple older mechanical things (like old cars) and newer more complicated things which might be more efficient but break more easily and are harder to repair.
The cost of ownership of new appliances is considerably lower than that of old appliances, especially 40 year old fridges. You can almost certainly buy a new fridge every 5 years and run it for less than it costs to run your old one.
For sure, and that's my old landlords problem to deal with (honestly don't know how they would get that monster out of that tiny old place), but throwing fridges away is pretty wasteful.
My dad and I have every cover of Sports Illustrated since he started getting it in the late 50s. That’s one I imagine has some value, although I have zero interest in ever selling it.
"reduce" should come before "reuse"
Reduce, reuse, recycle is the motto and it’s in that order for a reason. Although, as some others have commented, sometimes it really is more environmentally friendly to recycle as opposed to reusing. However, reducing is always #1.
There’s also “refuse” which comes before the more popular slogan (at least that’s how I recall it being taught in APES lol). Refuse unnecessary consumption, reduce consumption if that’s not possible, then reuse, and lastly recycle
Hoarding isnt a mental illness, its a virtue
That's why we have monuments to it all across this beautiful country. The great and virtuous temples of self-storage. Definitely not a massive waste of (sub)urban space and energy to store boomer shit that won't be touched until they're dead, at which point it'll promptly move from storage to the landfill by their kids who never wanted it. Also obligatory comment about cheap rent/places to live for cars and peoples' unnecessary shit, but not for actual people. Imagine all these massive, ugly as fuck self storage places being 5 story apartments instead. There's like half a dozen near my own neighborhood - often taking entire city blocks - where more housing is desperately needed. Sigh...they're no better than parking lots for peoples' shit. I remember on NPR they were talking about the pandemic self-storage boom and they asked this guy why he moved a buncha stuff to storage, where is pays like $300/m rent. He said "no room in my place". Reporter asks "why not just throw it out or donate it?" "Because I want it back when I move to a bigger place." "But you can't move now. Would that be easier with that $300 a month back?" "Well, yeah. But I'm not gonna throw it away so..." Made me wanna bang my head on a curb. Hoarding is disease and it's a widespread one.
>That's why we have monuments to it all across this beautiful country. The great and virtuous temples of self-storage. From a sociological or psychological perspective, I do honestly think you could say they have a ritual function. Preservation of value and of one's life achievements, compulsion to guard one's valuables against imagined-or-otherwise dangers, etc.
This is my parents lol, I'm not looking forward to have to throw away their old junk when they die.
Helped my parents move recently. Oh my god the amount of shit they have is insane. My dad's totally down to get rid of shit, but my mom is barely having any of that. They still have at least 20yrs in them, I hope; they're not even retired yet. But goddamn, I and my brother are not looking forward to going through all that shit.
Had to clean out my grandparents house about a year ago after they passed. Lots of rubbish but they were resourceful farmers so most stuff at least had a purpose at one point. But for some godforsaken reason my grandma hoarded newspapers/catalogues, basically anything paper she got by mail got stuffed in the spare garage. Wall to wall, floor to ceiling with like 45 years of papers.
I’m the weirdo that would be absolutely ecstatic to find 45 years worth of old newspapers Assuming it’s for a paper that doesn’t have a web archive?
Mail is such a scourge. Every day, the USPS dumps a bunch of stuff on you for you to sort through and deal with. I recently had a bonfire of years worth of detritus.
My parents sold their house to move to an apartment. They had to call in an auctioneer to get rid of all their stuff. I was very happy when I learned I wouldn't have to deal with.
My mother runs a small business that helps Seniors transition (move out, downsize, age in place etc). The amount of stuff that she has had to sell because none of the heirs want it (or theres no heirs at all) is so great that she was able to open a retail storefront with all of their stuff. Some of it is really nice, theres just so much of it.
oh hell yeah! Thanks Dad
I have a friend who inherited all his grandfather's junk. It has been a years long ordeal to get rid of any of it because "family memories."
I wonder how much the volume of cheap crap has changed with online shopping. Most of the trash that Shein, Temu and others traffic in already existed in dollar stores, strip malls, discount shops and the like. It's just accessible constantly now.
I just want to point out that Wish was extremely popular for a while and then the stock dropped >99% because apparently consumers DO get tired of garbage after a while. Temu is currently seemingly doing the exact same thing, they are popular because they are spending billions in ads, but it remains to be seen whether they can maintain a customer base without that kind of spending.
I buy cheap junk so Northrop can build the B-21
I hate having to browse through pages of identical junk on Amazon. And physical retailers aren't much better, with shelves stocked with slightly different but equally shitty stuff. I kinda yearn for a store that has a more curated selection, with a limited selection of higher-quality stuff (but not stupidly expensive "luxury" stuff). Is there a secret place that adults shop? My brain is still stuck being a cheap college kid in a lot of ways.
Everything nowadays is either cheap junk or stupidly expensive, it feels like.
I guess at higher tier stores? Or even just mid-tier? Amazon has so many dropshippers and scams now I never just buy things without double-checking first. You used to be able to reasonably expect Amazon was competitive if not the best price. Recently I've found almost always I can get a better price from the seller directly on their site, often with a promo code. With more options like GPay/Apple Pay, and maybe an email mask to avoid spam, buying from discrete sites like that isn't as painful anymore. So for me I tend to look at like "Upscale Outlet" brands. I like Nordstrom Rack a lot for instance - better quality clothing while still being generally cheap with good service, good return policies, no bullshit scammers. Often just $10 for T shirts, $15 for button ups. Not too bad at all, despite Nordstrom itself having a reputation for like $$$$$. But I really have found in my life that you get what you pay for, almost always. So even if it does cost more - like a shoe or something - it'll often last twice as long too. Especially for things you use every day like shoes, clothes, mattress, office chair - go bigger on those if you can, they're a bit more of an investment than a simple purchase. Also I really gotta cancel my Prime subscription. Hasn't been worth it in ages.
> Also I really gotta cancel my Prime subscription. Hasn't been worth it in ages. I canceled mine around the holidays. I still order a lot from them because I'm lazy, but just need to hit the $35 for free shipping, and wait a few extra days. If you do that, always double check that you've selected the free shipping option, 'cause otherwise they'll charge you $8 a shipment for 2-day by default (which is super shady and shitty of them).
Good points, thanks. We just placed a big order for some travel supplies but now that we're done, I think I'm just gonna go with your advice. It's pretty easy to hit $35 if you need more than a couple items at a time, so that seems like a good way to go. I never use the Prime streaming and the cost per year just keeps going up.
Few things make me feel better than snagging a fun button up shirt for $15 from outlets, thrift stores, Poshmark, etc.
Love being in Vegas We got them LLUUUUUXURY guds
This is me thinking about buying furniture once I finish up my undergrad, it feels like nowadays everything is either cheap particleboard garbage or ultra artisan-bespoke-luxury whatever. I just want some solid hardwood that I can buy once and be done with it
Furniture confuses me, too. When I got my first big boy job, I wen to the local big furniture store to upgrade my flatpack Walmart particle board stuff. But everything there was also just particle board, but already assembled, with a slightly nicer veneer, and 4x as expensive.
It sounds like you are looking for a Target.
Nah. Target is just Walmart, but with a 10% surcharge so you don't have to go into a Walmart.
Worth it
My thoughts? Nah.
Lmao no. ~ sent from checkout line at Costco
There is nothing at Costco that could even remotely be considered junk!
Thank you for your service!
Username ABSOLUTELY checks out
Or cheap at those sizes
Costco is inexpensive lol. They traffic in high volume specifically so they can be affordable.
Yes it’s cheap per unit but not per item. This is a big problem with my roommate, who believes you spend more on laundry detergent buying it at Costco or Sam’s club compared to the dollar store
> compared to the dollar store Yeah no shit dollar stores are cheaper but there’s something to be said for choice in product selection, and buying in bulk for things like laundry detergent is convenient as hell
It’s also way more expensive per unit but no amount of numbers or calculations ever convinces her of this.
No 😎 🇺🇸
Ozempic in the water will hopefully ameliorate impulsive online shopping.
If you really want to get conspiracy minded, just think about the incentives for corporate food producers to develop a compound that counteracts the effects of GLP1 agonists. They'll pitch it as a "safe" alternative to Fluoride or Chlorine to add to the water supply.
SHUT UP ABOUT THE PLAN
I know there's a lot of anecdotal evidence about GLP1 drugs suppressing impulsive behaviors, but some peer-reviewed papers are coming out which indicate they are not very effective at preventing drug addicts and alcoholics from relapsing. So it's not a miracle drug in that department.
No, humans are basically magpies we see something shiny and immediately go "mine".
I suspect that the utility you get from consumption in itself is derived by absolute scarcity. Brands like shein are successful because they sell the act of consumption to consumers who used to only experience that infrequently. Once the novelty wears off I expect consumer preferences to shift back toward the good itself.
I'm already pretty sick of it. I've started cutting off the bottom price tier on Amazon just so I can see something that isn't the same 5 products recycled through 150 companies that all have names like Furgodo and Bundax.
It's actually kind of frustrating if you don't want to buy cheap crap. Like I'm looking to buy nice bedroom set, and what's described as "wood" even on expensive West Elm prices is just veneer particle board.
I managed to not discover what Shein was until 1 week ago.
Oof, your comment taught me.
No never. There's two sides to this. Poor people who cyclically purchase low quality products because it's all they can afford and people who just impulsively shop because it's addicting. The former I feel for, the latter I don't. It's even more frustrating when the person who screeches about capitalism being unethical purchases repeatedly from Shein, Temu, & Amazon every damn day. Call em out and it's always some pithy college freshman level excuse to justify their purchasing habits. I'm not a rich man. In fact far from it. But I'm not in poverty either. I can't afford Loro Piana or Brunello Cucinelli where every garment is handmade in a safe factory in Italy by well paid workers. But I do try to minimize the amount of cheap plastic in my life and maximize the life of what I do buy. I shop at Ralph Lauren, Brooks Brothers Outlet, & Spier and Mackay during deep sales. I try to buy natural fabrics and things that will last 2-5 years instead of 2-5 months. H&M is cheaper but by 3 months in even their natural fabric stuff looks old and loses its shape. Over the lifetime of one oxford cloth shirt from BB I'd have probably spent the same or more on shirts from a fast fashion brand. For middle and upper class America we should seriously at least try to buy more durable goods. It's not cheap, it ain't easy, but to me at least it's the most moral thing we can do without dropping $10k on a coat.
Bruh what are you doing to your clothes that it lasts 2 years? I still have clothes from a decade ago that is totally fine.
Do you hang dry? I feel like dumping everything in the dryer on the highest setting is the biggest thing people do that prematurely demolishes clothes.
The dryer is absolute worst place for your clothes. The lint trap fills up because your clothes are slowly disintegrating in there. Wash less, wash on cold and air drying is more sustainable and cheaper.
Now if only my HOA let us air dry...
There's a good number of indoor drying racks and if you have a basement it's possible to set up an indoor clothesline.
I noticed when I moved to Australia from the US all my clothes were lasting longer, and I came to the conclusion it was because we hang dry here. We don't even have a dryer in our house it's pointless most of the year. Now that we are coming into winter it's a bit of a pain, but for ecological and economical reasons it's so much better.
It depends on the fabric. Cheap cotton falls apart, synthetics last forever. It also depends on how much and how you wash them.
I lost a lot of weight 💁♀️ Most of my wardrobe is 2-5 years old and still in nice shape so I guess they'll go ten years.
I have a huge issue with pants lasting more than a few years. I've tried a bunch of different brands. I'm convinced the issue is that my big quads put too much strain on the pant legs. The only pants that have lasted for me are the ones with roomier thighs (mostly wool trousers). But most casual pants nowadays have very narrow legs at the waist size that fits me.
It's a problem for my husband as well. Trousers always wear away at the crotch.
Same we mostly buy from Walmart and general mall stores and we've had pieces from years ago that serve us well still 🤷♂️
People throw clothes in the dryer when they really, really shouldn't.
I have always used dryers and my clothes absolutely don't fall to shit they way people say, despite shooping pretty low quality like Target, Amazon, licensed stuff, etc. in general.
I never understood this because I've had clothes from H&M for a decade. Most of the clothes I had to give away or get rid of are just because I got too fat and or old to wear that style. Dryers are the enemy.
Nowadays there's almost no correlation between how expensive a garment is and how well it is made thanks to the supply chains. I have seen the same factory supply both Boohoo and Oliver Bonas (an overpriced yummy mummy store here in the UK).
I disagree. I used to spend way too much on some of the same brands and high end/American made clothing. I found while it looked nicer and usually fit better, it wasn’t worth it. The correlation between price and how long it lasted was only very slightly positive. I now still have the nice clothes that I wear on occasion, but only wear and buy cheap clothes for work and most days. Got some amazon basics polos for $7. Clothes from costco is cheap and also lasts a long time. My kirkland supima t shirts last just as long as my american made ones. I find im overall happier with having cheap clothes and saving money. There’s a 10x difference in price for the same article of clothing but not a 10x difference in quality or longevity. $7 polo for work and $70 polo for special occasion. Some of my $20 jeans fit better than the $200 jeans I have.
I'm sorry but I disagree very hard. Anything cheap I've bought has been disappointing in terms of material quality, construction, and longevity. I have vintage BB wool sweaters from my grandfather that have lasted decades with frequent wearing. I got some sweater from Amazon as a Christmas gift last year and it's falling apart even though I baby the thing and air dry it. I will concede especially with BB & RL that some of the stuff they sell at full price is no longer worth it. But I don't buy at full price, always on sale at end of season from my local outlet.
The TEMU-fication of consumption…
Whatever happened to millennials being the “experiences, not things” generation… Personally, both my late boomer parents have unholy quantities of shit in storage and in reaction to this I’m quite minimalist (by “1st world” standards).
It says so in the article. We used to be in a long term trend where money spent shifted slowly from goods to services (i.e. spending on experience not things) up until 2019, then the pandemic introduced a massive shift to consumer goods over services and we've been here ever since.
IMO, generation theory is more or less bunk. Almost everything that was attributed to millenials when I was in my 20s is now being attributed to genZ. Same with this. A lot of 20-somethings are moving around too much to want to accumulate stuff, so they focus on experiences that don't need closet space. Then they get older, get some more money, settle down, and become their parents. Except for those who rebel and become not their parents (maybe your kids will become maximilists in retaliation).
Well I think that more millennials (as a percentage) are minimalistic/"experience" focused than Xers and Boomers, but overall the percentage is still pretty small compared to the millenials who buy cheap shit from Walmart/Amazon/Zara.
Yeah I'm like that too, as is my wife, and it's in no small part because both of our families have so much shit in their house that it's legitimately stressful. Like, jars of jam older than I am - no joke. It's not like dangerous, like piles of shit about to fall over and crush you (usually). I call it organized hoarding. But boomers really will just go buy a new TV when their old one has a minor technical problem. It stresses me out to be in their houses and I go out of my way to keep my de-cluttered. Ideally I'd be more successful, but it'll never look like their places. Idk if minimalist is even the word. More just "if I don't use it every single week, I want it out of sight. If I use it even less than that...probably to Goodwill." Funny part is both of our families use their huge piles of shit as an excuse to never move, too. Self-imposed obstacles if you ask me.
My parents are exactly the opposite, maybe because they grew up in a 3rd world country. I grew up with 'make do and mend'. Had to negotiate for everything. Everything got used until it literally was falling apart, from televisions to clothes and shoes. By the way, they are middle class people. My white Euro husband claims that 'they pretend that they don't have any money even though they are well-off compared to many people'.
It's kinda weird because that kinda describes my mother, who grew up pretty poor. But it's contradictory too, right? She likes to repair clothing and sew things, but she has an entire bedroom closet full of fabrics stacked to the top like a pyramid - she could never use this much fabric if she ran a textile business out of the house. She has like 3 sewing machines but only uses one of them. Why? Who can say. Why doesn't she sell off the old ones? Again, no god damn idea. Sometimes I think she has an almost depression-era inability to get rid of anything, even tho she's a boomer. Similarly my dad is super handy and likes to repair things and not hire contractors, but at this point his tool bench eats half the garage. He must have 10 screwdrivers and 10 more hammers. So it's amusing you say that because the hoarding kind of stems from productive hobbies like that, and yet still you can't actually park any cars in that garage and haven't been able to for 20 year straight. And for instance the jars of jam older than me I mentioned were homemade, and that's probably why they're hard to let go of. Again, leftover clutter from a productive hobby (cooking/canning things). Other clutter is stuff they brought back from traveling. So yeah I guess in a sense it all has some sentimental value to them, and that's probably why they keep it. It's not a good enough reason IMO, but I can kinda understand the thought process.
I have too much fabric as well. Although mine stash is not floor-to-ceiling and I've been on an (almost) no-buy for quite a while now. I also have 2 machines, one is broken and I cannot find the energy to get it repaired. I just have too much to do. Maybe I'll give it away for free on Gumtree.
Covid. Covid happened.
Inflation hit experiences harder than things
I was an experiences not things person until experiences went away for two years. It completely shifted my habits and it's been hard to get back to my old ways. For example I went to 8 concerts in 2019 as well as a road trip to Los Angeles. I've been to 2 concerts since 2020 and been on one vacation. Now it was my massive dream vacation, but I've noticed I've definitely started doing more pointless shopping since lockdown. Also it feels like all the things required for experiences - flights, hotels, etc. have gotten exponentially more expensive whereas many consumer goods have gotten easier or stayed the same. I used to go to Vegas annually for a week because it was such a cheap vacation. Like less than 200 for the flight. The rooms were less than 200 total if not comped outright by the hotel as part of a special. Now I'm seeing Vegas hotel rooms for 200 a night at the shittier casinos. It's absolute lunacy. And then they wonder why people aren't going and gambling as much.
Is this a white person thing. My middle class brown immigrant parents have really kept under control the amount of stuff they buy. My mother is always cleaning out the house. But we are in Europe and our houses are smaller.
No, I love it, it keeps me going and gives me something to live for
This but unironically Going to Dollar Tree with no items in mind and then coming out with 20 of them is one of the hidden joys of life
I say this was all respect, but I've never heard such an innocuous statement that is yet so diametrically opposed to what I consider to bring me joy in life
I take this to mean you find bringing 20 items and leaving them at the dollar store is what brings you joy in life?
I'm a fanatical dollar store depositer enjoyer, you've got me pegged.
This but Half Price Books
I remember when I was in college, and I realized that Walmart sold 5 forks for a dollar. For $3, I had flatware sorted for a decade. For some reason, seeing the fork bin always makes me happy.
depressing
Betteridge says no
Betteridge isn't real
“Fuck you!” -Santa
Nope. We love our cheap crap.
I feel like I barely buy anything for myself anymore because everything seems kind of shitty. I have enough liquor stashed away for the rest of my life probably so I’ve stopped buying that. I have enough gear for the amount of fishing I’m able to do. I find myself wandering around Target and don’t really see anything I want. When my kids are old enough to not ruin everything I’ll have to get some nicer furniture but that’s a ways off.
Nope!
No.
You can pry my cheap junk from my cold, dead hands!
Nope! -an american
Of course not
Never
No
We've been sick of cheap junk for a long long time, but we can't afford the alternatives, if the alternatives even exist. Fifty years ago, if you needed a new couch, you were either going to get a new one that was very expensive but built to last a long long time, or if you couldn't afford that you were going to obtain a used one that was built to last a long long time. Those were your only options. Then Ikea and Target and Walmart came along with a third option: A cheap couch that might last five or six years. A couch that is **good enough for now** before you bought your permanent couch. Then the good-enough-for-now couches took over the market and the permanent couches either disappeared or retreated to stores exclusively for the very wealthy. All we're left with is cheap junk because **they can make more money selling you a cheap couch every five years than a well-made couch every 20 years.** The same process happened with clothing, appliances, toys, electronics, even cars. Even housing construction itself. A world of junk.