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Jordan Mailata played rugby until he was like 22, joined the international player program, got drafted in the late 7th , and is now one of the best tackles in the league
Scout for the Senior Bowl said that it’s basically a genetics based game now, if you’re in the Top 0.01% you’ll always have a shot, 99.95% of people don’t have a chance no matter how young they started playing.
Suggested kids should skip football entirely until HS and focus on sports that develop similar skills without the risk of injury - wrestling, weight lifting, swimming, basketball, etc.
If you’re not competing for the top level in those sports, football isn’t worth the CTE
Speed can be taught to an extent, but not fully.
I'm a college prof & a student who is on the track team as a sprinter was telling me all about the technique involved in that.
That doesn’t seem possible for skill positions, obviously QB but also the entire defense off the line like DBs and LBs. So much game sense and specialized physicality like being able to run backwards is required.
Yep... all of the skills related to backpedalling, reading QBs, reading WRs, can all be obtained playing flag football. And, in some cases better obtained, because you can't rely on physicality to win.
Hopefully we’ll see a big growth in flag football after the Olympics, especially with NFL players competing.
It would be a wonderful training (and safer) option for youth football. Have to get rid of the stigma that keeps younger guys and their fathers away from it and inclusion in the Olympics could be the first step
This.
Just gaining coordination, ball skills, and sport spatial awareness at a young age is easily as valuable, you can sign up a kid for basketball at 5 and their mother and grandparents won’t think you’re a psycho.
Look at Keyon Coleman
> you can sign up a kid for basketball at 5 and their mother and grandparents won’t think you’re a psycho.
Well if you sign up someone’s kid at random for a sport, they’ll probably think you’re a psycho.
If you start cold as a HS freshman, you’ll have anywhere between 6 to 9 years to develop your skillset before you go pro. That’s plenty of time, plus as the above comment mentioned, there are transferable skills from other sports.
Most QBs taken these days had a chance to play NCAA baseball if not professional. If a kid can’t clean up in little league baseball worrying about learning Mesh concepts is beside the point.
Also don’t forget non-QBs Hayden Hurst, Deion Sanders, and Bo Jackson.
Allen Iverson was also an all-star QB at the HS level;
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z7AO_Qkfjjc&pp=ygUhYWxsZW4gaXZlcnNvbiBmb290YmFsbCBoaWdobGlnaHRz
Mahomes played baseball and football his first couple years at Texas Tech. Started college with the idea he'd be a pro baseball player. Was playing football too just for fun.
Everyone runs backwards when the are a kid. I think you are overstating the skill in these positions. What you need is technique and you can pick that up quick. The hard part is becoming 6-5 and 330 pounds if you want to become an NFL offensive lineman.
Those skills are easily teachable, developing generalized athletic ability would be just as useful.
I know nobody wants to hear it but kids arguably shouldn't be allowed to play tackle football before high school at the absolute earliest. There's really no benefit, while there's a lot of potential downside.
This is the tact I'm taking with my sons. They can play flag. And if they really want to play tackle football and you say hard no, they're going to hate you and act out in other ways.
And they would also both need to be above average atheltically for me to consider it. Which, I'm coordinated but I'm 5'9 white guy. Their maternal grandparents are fucking ripped and tall though, so I expect both my sons to be around 6 foot. If they get those genes, maybe.
Also want to throw out there that flag is a blast and depending on the league it can get pretty competitive and physical still. Our league is like pickup basketball. Plenty of elbows, shoves, and shit talking.
If you don’t play you miss out on the aggression that you need. The players that have been out there have that and it’s much harder to break into. But the way football is going they are taking all of that out anyway. But definitely have your son involved in flag leagues or 7-7.
Basically every sport there is an athletic skill floor you have to meet just to be able to do the most basic things. You could be an all-time great QB but if you still have to throw to a WR who is being covered by a CB, and if you don’t have the arm strength there simply will not be a window where they are open.
I find this easy to believe. I still like football, but this fact has made me like it less and less over the years. It's driving me further to baseball and soccer as a fan.
Soccer is a genetics based game too. There’s a great documentary showing a bunch of high end amateur soccer players (semi pro - there’s a ton of depth in the UK) training with the pros at Tottenham. The amateurs could do all the same skill stuff as the pros, where they fell down was in a game environment they didn’t have the stamina to execute these techniques under fatigue, whereas the pros did. The average premier league player does about 10kms a game, about 10% of which is at a full sprint (25+ km/h). Only a very small percentage of the population has that kind of aerobic capacity.
Drew Brees wasn’t huge and he’s one of the greatest players of all time. Meanwhile Aaron Judge is 6’7 lol.
Soccer players aren’t massive because they run marathons every week. It’s still an insane genetic requirement.
They are in other small portions of society related to genetics nor does being in that small portion strictly make you successful in any case. Ray Lewis is far from prototypical size of an MLB. Aaron Donald is like 6’1 smoking guys that 7 inches on them. Tyreek is small and he was the best WR last year.
What are these examples?
Drew Brees wasn't huge... Compared to his peers. He still stands out among the general population, though. Ray Lewis at 6'1" 240 might be the most prototypical LB that ever existed, Aaron Donald was literally a mold breaker Hall of Fame talent that proves the rule. Tyreek is the only decent example of this group, but he's still pushing the boundary of athleticism.
You kinda missed the original point, which is not that size alone makes an athlete - it just gives them a leg up.
Lol drew brees is average sized for a baseball player and even a soccer player. Ray Lewis is literally undersized for his position. I'm not sure you have any idea what youre talking about here.
The harsh reality of life is that only a very small group of people have the ability to be the best in the world at it. Whether it's athletics, people skills, academic achievements, or basically anything else you're ability to be in the top it determined at birth.
This is most obvious in sports, due to the amount of direct competition, and small number of spots available, but it's true in every area of life.
That said, most areas of life do not require you to be the absolute best in the world to succeed, but the absolute best paid positions do.
…it’s probably worth mentioning that Mailata goes 6’8 365# which makes him an especially large human, hell, I’m willing to bet he’s top-5 for NFL tackles just in terms of mass…don’t want people in the comments thinking you’re talking about a 6’ 200# and giving them hope
Christian Okoye had never played football before age 21.
Jason Pierre-Paul picked up football in high-school after he stopped playing basketball.
Antonio Gates played football in high-school but played basketball in college.
I thought the “Antonio Gates played basketball” bit was up there with Kelvin Benjamin Is A Fatass and Ryan Fitzpatrick Went To Harvard so I assumed everyone would get it lol
Lmao you must be the same age as me because those are all slappy memes lol.
Everyone our age/above gets it. Benjamin hasn’t been in the league in 6 years lol it’s not exactly a current reference
What's crazy is Jimmy Graham, Mo Allie Cox, Julius Peppers and Tony Gonzales also all played basketball but Gates was the only one that was legit good at it. Averaged like 20
You can make way more money in the NBA than in the NFL with way less risk to your body... If you have a shot at going pro in the NBA you'd probably want to do that.
See: Charlie Ward
Chris Manhertz never played any football besides Madden, but got some tryouts based on his college basketball career and size and has now been a tight end on a few different teams for a decade.
Quite a few O linemen never play a snap of football until they're invited to training camp, because the strength and body type of shot putters/strongmen/rugby blockers happens to translate very nicely. Even more impressive considering how cognitive of a position it is with technique and assignments.
That's an interesting point and I've wondered about that translation in the past. The Pats have had their share of dudes who wrestled in college and then turned out to be good OL, dudes who did hammer throw and turned out to be good OL, dudes who played tuba and...weren't that good at OL, but they got a fair crack at it.
The mass/strength component obviously makes sense ("Can't coach size") but you'd assume that after QB, TE, and WR, the next most difficult position to learn from scratch would be OL. What's up with that?
I would say wrestling is very useful for big guys when they are younger to work on coordination and technique. Stephen Neal beat Brock Lesnar who was a genetic freak. Neal obviously has amazing genetics as well but that little extra.
Personally I think for some people football skills are very intuitive, blocking in particular. I wasn’t anything special when I played, but I was an above average blocker and I remember it being something that just made sense from day 1. Much more so than skills like dribbling/shooting a basketball.
I imagine many of these wrestlers and athletes from other sports just have 200 IQ brains for “leveraging” that translates quickly to blocking and other lineman skills. Also being a lineman requires smarts, but less “I spent 7 years mastering this single topic for my PhD” smarts, and more “I can make many very good decisions in a single moment” kind of smarts.
And they might have an added benefit from starting fresh in the world's hardest league. No chance to develop bad habits from out-muscling guys through HS and college.
Theres also a bunch of just big football players swapping in to line or sometimes tight end
Like how multiple qbs like Lane Johnson and Blake Bell put up solid numbers at one point or another because of their size, then shifted over, and got drafted
Wrestlers too. Carlton Haselrig won 6 NCAA heavyweight championships (a feat no can match since they've changed the rules) in wrestling, didn't play college football, and he ended up a great guard for the Steelers.
From what i can see, he grew up playing rugby, so he had a basis in place.
I was mostly referring to someone that hasn't played football or rugby or something similar, before they start playing football.
He has said in interviews none of the rugby stuff helped. They aren’t comparable sports in the slightest. Watch the New Heights Jordan Mailata episode. Nothing translates.
Yea as the reverse of that I played football in highschool and joined club rugby in college and the first thing they tell all of the former football players is to throw all of that out of the window.
I played college rugby, and a bunch of the football guys would get a handful of concussions and then quit because they couldn’t stop trying to tackle with their face.
Maybe in terms of what he qualifies as “the rugby stuff” but certainly playing the sport of rugby at a high level helped immensely. The coordination, mentality, movement, contact, if he’d just been a big dude with no athletic background beyond just being fit he’d’ve been a much different person/player…
There's plenty of examples of guys not playing prior to joining the league. Usually guys who played a different sport at a high level. Mailata didn't play until he was 22 and is one of the best OL in the league.
Stephen Neal played HS football but skipped CFB to win multiple wrestling national titles then post college played 10 years and won three super bowls.
Brock Lesnar never played football in his life and managed to get a camp invite with Minnesota when he was 27. Probably helped that he was a NCAA wrestling champion and could run a 4.6 at 295lbs.
I won’t get deep in the weeds here with specifics but rough equivalent of getting caught for PEDs in the NFL is the new BAC limit being .25 and getting a DUI…
Don’t be silly. The testing isn’t nearly good enough for that to be a problem. “The suspensions only represent around 1% or fewer of all NFL players each year. But Yesalis long has suspected the actual PED usage is far greater, much like in cycling, where admitted dopers avoided testing positive in drug tests. “Only careless and stupid people get caught,” he said.”
“On the other hand, the NFL’s PED policy is not set by an independent party such as USADA. The policy instead is made in a negotiation between league management and the players’ union, both of which arguably have an interest in keeping a lid on the problem.”
Penalties are also minor, usually 4-6 game suspensions. And plenty of former players have called the steroid tests IQ tests
Had it wrong he was 285 and ran a 4.7. 35in vertical, 10ft broad jump and 30reps at 225
https://www.essentiallysports.com/wwe-news-nfl-did-286lbs-brock-lesnar-perform-better-at-the-nfl-combine-than-tom-brady/
Stephen Neal actually beat Brock in the 1999 NCAA wrestling finals for his second straight title. I wrestled in high-school in Maine in the mid 2000's we watched that match with the team because everyone aside from me were patriots fans.
I don’t think it’s talked enough about that he, with no football experience past high school, managed to play preseason snaps for an NFL team at 27 just by straight athleticism (after getting hurt earlier that year)
That plus the obvious NCAA wrestling, him being a prodigy in WWE, casually waltzing into the UFC and winning a belt, etc I think there’s an argument he might be the greatest pure athlete we’ve ever seen
For most people you have to start playing by Freshmen year and be dominant at your position by Junior year so you can get drafted by a program that will have NFL Scouts checking in.
There's a bunch of outliers but they are just that.
Some people are freaks of nature and turned up sophomore year and immediately became P4 players
They also were 6”6 330 lbs lol
Tom Brady was a JV backup like yours truly until he hit his growth spurt and grew to be 6”4 lol
For 95 percent of us we’d be 1 way players on JV and be role players on varsity with average genes regardless of when we start
I’m coaching a kid now he’s 6”1 175 lbs he didn’t start football until 9th grade. He’s way better than someone 5”7 145 that’s been playing since 9 because he’s way bigger lol
I started tackle football at age 10.
That actually is the safest age for football actually
The most dangerous ages are 7th and 8th grade substantially (extreme variances in size with no weight limits) followed by hs Varsity. The average hs varsity just is dangerous because grown men are playing and most kids platoon 1 way or see the field in limited roles
There's been instances of players not starting to play football until late in their high school career. I'd say to answer your question they would have to put something together in college to be able to be drafted. Even if it's not good.
Jimmy Graham (TE) played one year of college football after playing basketball. That would have put him around 23 when he started playing college football. I'm not sure if he played football in high school. But I'd say Graham represents an extreme outlier. He is incredibly talented and gifted athletically.
Renaldo Nehemiah was a world champion track star in the hurdles who never played football at all yet managed to make the 49ers roster as receiver where he played for 3 years. His stats are forgettable, 40 something career catches for 700 something yards but the mere fact he made the roster and hung around for 3 years with zero football experience shows what a freak athlete he was.
Bill Schroeder tried out for the University of WI - LaCrosse football team as a 5th year Senior after exhausting his eligibility as a track and field star for the university.
Had a pretty great NFL career as a returner and played in the Super Bowl
I went to hs with Tamba Hali and he didn’t play until I think his sophomore year, went to penn st and was first round pick. Plus his dad was our science teacher.
Yes many can do that. Puberty has to hit them like a truck, have to have good coaches, a good genetic background, and have the game be something that naturally clicks for them. If you are a highschooler asking this, while it can work for many the likelihood of it happening is still low. Doesn’t mean trying out for the team or any of your high school sports teams is not worth it!
Really depends on the state and area. Some high schools do have try outs and players compete for the ability to dress on game day. As they only have a limited amount of pads and jersey's.
Others are just trying to be able to have enough guys to fill a roster for an entire season across all 3 levels (freshman, JV and Varsity) and will gladly take anyone they can on their roster.
I’ve never seen a school like the former post 2012 when football parcip cratered
The only schools I’ve seen like #1 recruited up and down the country and played as a national schedule- guess who didn’t make the travel squad LOL or were in Texas
There are hundreds of kickers across the nation in college and exactly 32 NFL positions most of which are not considered "open". Statistically kickers are getting better and better over the decade.
Brandon Aubrey was a 28 year old rookie kicker and was 1st team All Pro just this past year. He transitioned from soccer to placekicking, so if you grow up playing soccer or don't have the physical size to be a real football player you could always try to become a kicker or punter. High school coaches sometimes recruit from the soccer team just to find someone with the ability to kick without needing as much coaching
I think a lot are saying players don’t need to until college, but realistically most of the guys drafted have played since before high school. I’d say 14 is kind of the sweet spot where you’d need to start if your a great athlete but not a super athlete. Guys who don’t play until college are definitely special. There are also more guys that play from 3rd grade and don’t even make it to college.
It would depend on size, athleticism, and the position.
High School is plenty of time, though, assuming one is willing to put in the work and has good coaching.
There's a lot of guys in the NFL who only started playing in college. Being a natural athlete is pretty big but a lot of it is just putting in work and understanding the game.
A question like this never has a correct answer because every human on planet earth is different.
Yeah that's exactly who I was thinking about. Granted it was a terrible 2nd round pick like most of our picks back then. But the point still stands, he played NFL downs and grabbed a few sacks.
There was a kid at my high school that was an incredible athlete, but he didn't play football. Somehow he started playing in division 3 college and set the team record for tackles as a linebacker. He didn't get drafted, but did sign with the Jets and played in the preseason before getting cut.
Honestly depends on the level of athlete said person is. People have mentioned Jordan Mailata, I also remember Christian Okoye, who had never even SEEN American football, let alone played it, before getting convinced to play at Azusa Pacific University near Los Angeles. He was 23 and was drafted by the Chiefs at 25.
My entire high school essentially never played a snap of organized football prior to high school as it wasn’t a big thing to do in the area. It’s also one of the best if not best high schools in the state. Now that was a while ago and things changed. But most guys who became d1 football guys were converted from other sports. I don’t think you really should be playing football when you are young anyways unless it’s like 7on7. Other sports do just fine developing the same skills without having to go knock some skulls
Some players have only started playing in high school (or even later, as people are pointing out with Mailata et al). So it’s certainly possible. But the chances of making the NFL with such a late start are likely way lower when starting that late, controlling for talent.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned Gable Steveson yet. ELITE gold medal winning/two time NCAA championship winning wrestler who recently signed as a defensive end for the Bills. He is unproven of course but if you’ve got size and athleticism there’s really no defined limit.
I'd say around 21.
Seeing interviews with Olympians after the trials in various sports, I've been struck with how impressive you have to be as an overall human being to make it in most sports. Football and basketball are not this way. In many football positions you mostly just have to be born with a world class combination of size and agility or speed. Same in basketball but also throw in an unnaturally long wing span there.
Hard work and experience are valuable but optional in football and basketball.
The hardest part is getting colleges to notice you if you are late to football. Most local scouts have their guys they like by a players Junior year.
Not getting that attention means you either have to be a genetic freak, attempt to walk on or attempt to create buzz at a lower level in college before transferring. Though remember most colleges really only care about your height/weight/speed potential. I have known terrible OL that were getting D2 interest because they were 6'5" 240lbs when better OL who were around 6ft or smaller generated nothing. Colleges are willing to gamble on traits.
The guys that barely played or never played in today's game are often from foreign initiative NFL has where players can be on PS without taking a spot and are also physical specimens. This is how Jordan Mailata went to the Eagles.
Stephen Neal was the starting guard for the Pats for 81 games, winning three SBs. He didn't play football until he was in the NFL.
He was a champion, top tier collegiate & Olympic wrestler that Tom Brady scouted, brought in as a rookie free agent and developed into one of the core contributors of the first dynasty. Great example of Brady as the talent evaluator and GM.
Christian Okoye played just three seasons of organized football before he was a second-round draft choice of Kansas City and went on to lead the league in rushing
Chargers had a pretty good punter named Darren Bennett in the 90s who only played Australian rules football before coming to the NFL at the age of 29, but they're close enough it probably wasn't that big a learning curve
It doesn’t matter to a degree. Intangibles matter more. Joel Embiid didn’t touch a basketball till nearly 16 and he’s an MVP in the NBA. Size Athleticism Intuition are by far the most important for sports.
Intuitions probably the third most important while simultaneously being the most important when it comes to development.
Brother if you’re 6’4 290 you bet your ass the nfl is gunna be looking at you if you have a decent kickback lmao
Same with just being 7’. The nba wil for sure give you a look if you can run down a court without breaking your feet haha
Terrell Owens didn’t play football until his junior year of high school. Only caught 115 passes and 12 TDs throughout college at Chattanooga. Went on to become top 3 all time at his position
There are plenty of amazing NFL players that didn't start playing football until late highschool or even college. Bottom line, A lot more started late than you would think.
College age but they would have to have the ideal size or speed but neither of those mean anything without toughness you can be the biggest or fastest guy in the world but that means nothing on the gridiron. A guy like Usain bolt is fast as lightning but that doesn't mean he could play football at all
I'm sure there are some physical freaks in the NBA who would get a tryout from an NFL team at age 26-28 despite never having played organized football.
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Jordan Mailata played rugby until he was like 22, joined the international player program, got drafted in the late 7th , and is now one of the best tackles in the league
Scout for the Senior Bowl said that it’s basically a genetics based game now, if you’re in the Top 0.01% you’ll always have a shot, 99.95% of people don’t have a chance no matter how young they started playing. Suggested kids should skip football entirely until HS and focus on sports that develop similar skills without the risk of injury - wrestling, weight lifting, swimming, basketball, etc. If you’re not competing for the top level in those sports, football isn’t worth the CTE
Two things you can’t teach…size & speed
False. I have a doctorate in getting fatter and slower.
But can you *teach* this power?
Www.tacobell.com For my itinerary and course listings
Not to a Jedi.
can you download me a hoagie
Size can be taught through cheeseburgers
But can move quickly enough at a high rate where the weight doesn't destroy your joints with all the weighted cheeseburgers?
Well....doesn't destroy them too quickly anyways.
There’s a lot of truth to that statement!
Or steamed hams
Speed can be taught to an extent, but not fully. I'm a college prof & a student who is on the track team as a sprinter was telling me all about the technique involved in that.
Absolutely…technique is everything in every sport. Thing is that sprinter is very likely inherently fast to begin with
Speed is quite literally teachable though, (to an extent). You can get fast by learning proper technique and building up muscle.
Agreed, but at the NFL level you pretty much either have it or you don’t
That doesn’t seem possible for skill positions, obviously QB but also the entire defense off the line like DBs and LBs. So much game sense and specialized physicality like being able to run backwards is required.
Flag football is the move. Learn the skills while you're young then apply them once you're on the back half of puberty.
Yep... all of the skills related to backpedalling, reading QBs, reading WRs, can all be obtained playing flag football. And, in some cases better obtained, because you can't rely on physicality to win.
Yeah that’s a good point. A lot of youth football is “get the ball to our biggest/fastest/earliest to hit puberty as often as possible”
Hell, so is high school, for most parts your most athletic/talented player is playing QB.
Yeah that’s the ideal move, assuming it’s even available at high school/college at a competitive level
Hopefully we’ll see a big growth in flag football after the Olympics, especially with NFL players competing. It would be a wonderful training (and safer) option for youth football. Have to get rid of the stigma that keeps younger guys and their fathers away from it and inclusion in the Olympics could be the first step
Well no if your goal is the NFL then you want to have transitioned from flag to actual football by then
This. Just gaining coordination, ball skills, and sport spatial awareness at a young age is easily as valuable, you can sign up a kid for basketball at 5 and their mother and grandparents won’t think you’re a psycho. Look at Keyon Coleman
> you can sign up a kid for basketball at 5 and their mother and grandparents won’t think you’re a psycho. Well if you sign up someone’s kid at random for a sport, they’ll probably think you’re a psycho.
Everybody should play flag football up until at least puberty or like age 13. There is a reason hockey doesn’t allow body checking until then.
Yep
It’s a lot easier to get kids to love the game playing flag football too.
If you start cold as a HS freshman, you’ll have anywhere between 6 to 9 years to develop your skillset before you go pro. That’s plenty of time, plus as the above comment mentioned, there are transferable skills from other sports.
I misread the post and thought they were saying to skip high school football too, to me that seems like the riskiest part.
How can you say I’m not Alabama material, Coach Saban. You’ve never even seen me play!
Most QBs taken these days had a chance to play NCAA baseball if not professional. If a kid can’t clean up in little league baseball worrying about learning Mesh concepts is beside the point.
[удалено]
Also don’t forget non-QBs Hayden Hurst, Deion Sanders, and Bo Jackson. Allen Iverson was also an all-star QB at the HS level; https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z7AO_Qkfjjc&pp=ygUhYWxsZW4gaXZlcnNvbiBmb290YmFsbCBoaWdobGlnaHRz
Mahommes played baseball right?
Yeah he was drafted by the Detroit Tigers. Also as a fun fact, Tom Brady was drafted by the Montreal Expos in 1995
Mahomes played baseball and football his first couple years at Texas Tech. Started college with the idea he'd be a pro baseball player. Was playing football too just for fun.
Everyone runs backwards when the are a kid. I think you are overstating the skill in these positions. What you need is technique and you can pick that up quick. The hard part is becoming 6-5 and 330 pounds if you want to become an NFL offensive lineman.
Those skills are easily teachable, developing generalized athletic ability would be just as useful. I know nobody wants to hear it but kids arguably shouldn't be allowed to play tackle football before high school at the absolute earliest. There's really no benefit, while there's a lot of potential downside.
This is the tact I'm taking with my sons. They can play flag. And if they really want to play tackle football and you say hard no, they're going to hate you and act out in other ways. And they would also both need to be above average atheltically for me to consider it. Which, I'm coordinated but I'm 5'9 white guy. Their maternal grandparents are fucking ripped and tall though, so I expect both my sons to be around 6 foot. If they get those genes, maybe. Also want to throw out there that flag is a blast and depending on the league it can get pretty competitive and physical still. Our league is like pickup basketball. Plenty of elbows, shoves, and shit talking.
A lot of programs do flag football until Middle School. Middle School usually only allows 7th-8th from my experience
If you don’t play you miss out on the aggression that you need. The players that have been out there have that and it’s much harder to break into. But the way football is going they are taking all of that out anyway. But definitely have your son involved in flag leagues or 7-7.
Basically every sport there is an athletic skill floor you have to meet just to be able to do the most basic things. You could be an all-time great QB but if you still have to throw to a WR who is being covered by a CB, and if you don’t have the arm strength there simply will not be a window where they are open.
I find this easy to believe. I still like football, but this fact has made me like it less and less over the years. It's driving me further to baseball and soccer as a fan.
Soccer is a genetics based game too. There’s a great documentary showing a bunch of high end amateur soccer players (semi pro - there’s a ton of depth in the UK) training with the pros at Tottenham. The amateurs could do all the same skill stuff as the pros, where they fell down was in a game environment they didn’t have the stamina to execute these techniques under fatigue, whereas the pros did. The average premier league player does about 10kms a game, about 10% of which is at a full sprint (25+ km/h). Only a very small percentage of the population has that kind of aerobic capacity.
Lol you think soccer and baseball are different in that regard?
Because you don't have to be in the small portion of humanity that's both massive and athletic.
Drew Brees wasn’t huge and he’s one of the greatest players of all time. Meanwhile Aaron Judge is 6’7 lol. Soccer players aren’t massive because they run marathons every week. It’s still an insane genetic requirement. They are in other small portions of society related to genetics nor does being in that small portion strictly make you successful in any case. Ray Lewis is far from prototypical size of an MLB. Aaron Donald is like 6’1 smoking guys that 7 inches on them. Tyreek is small and he was the best WR last year.
What are these examples? Drew Brees wasn't huge... Compared to his peers. He still stands out among the general population, though. Ray Lewis at 6'1" 240 might be the most prototypical LB that ever existed, Aaron Donald was literally a mold breaker Hall of Fame talent that proves the rule. Tyreek is the only decent example of this group, but he's still pushing the boundary of athleticism. You kinda missed the original point, which is not that size alone makes an athlete - it just gives them a leg up.
Lol drew brees is average sized for a baseball player and even a soccer player. Ray Lewis is literally undersized for his position. I'm not sure you have any idea what youre talking about here.
The harsh reality of life is that only a very small group of people have the ability to be the best in the world at it. Whether it's athletics, people skills, academic achievements, or basically anything else you're ability to be in the top it determined at birth. This is most obvious in sports, due to the amount of direct competition, and small number of spots available, but it's true in every area of life. That said, most areas of life do not require you to be the absolute best in the world to succeed, but the absolute best paid positions do.
…it’s probably worth mentioning that Mailata goes 6’8 365# which makes him an especially large human, hell, I’m willing to bet he’s top-5 for NFL tackles just in terms of mass…don’t want people in the comments thinking you’re talking about a 6’ 200# and giving them hope
The anti-Jarryd Hayne
So you’re saying I don’t have a chance in my late 30s? Dang
Christian Okoye had never played football before age 21. Jason Pierre-Paul picked up football in high-school after he stopped playing basketball. Antonio Gates played football in high-school but played basketball in college.
TIL Antonio Gates played basketball
If I recall, wasn't he famous for being one of the first players to "dunk" the ball over the crossbar after s touchdown?
I...wanna say Tony Gonzales.
He also played basketball
A TE that played basketball? That IS rare.
Julius Peppers played football and basketball at UNC. So there's a DE that did it.
What next, you're gonna tell me jimmy graham played football?
No, but did you know that he has a pilot’s license and took his seaplane to practice?
I played football and basketball! The stars are just like me!😍
Wait….are you joking or are you too young to realize this should be really, really funny
Buncha r/woosh in this thread
Hey man you never know if you’re talking to a 12 year old on the internet so you have to check lol
I thought the “Antonio Gates played basketball” bit was up there with Kelvin Benjamin Is A Fatass and Ryan Fitzpatrick Went To Harvard so I assumed everyone would get it lol
Lmao you must be the same age as me because those are all slappy memes lol. Everyone our age/above gets it. Benjamin hasn’t been in the league in 6 years lol it’s not exactly a current reference
I’m 30. And I see the Benjamin Golden Corral copypasta once a week on various subreddits so it may live on beyond our generation 😂
Amazing. I’m 32 and I hope it lives on until my grandchildren are my age I just haven’t seen it in a while
Cheers brother
Jimmy graham also never played football until his last year at Miami. Through high school and 4 years of college he only played basketball
His team at [Kent State](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCtvb-S-OvE&t=6325s) made it to the Elite 8 in 2002 before losing to Indiana.
What's crazy is Jimmy Graham, Mo Allie Cox, Julius Peppers and Tony Gonzales also all played basketball but Gates was the only one that was legit good at it. Averaged like 20
You can make way more money in the NBA than in the NFL with way less risk to your body... If you have a shot at going pro in the NBA you'd probably want to do that. See: Charlie Ward
He had no shot at the NBA but I'm saying he's the only one who actually played well in college basketball
[удалено]
Whoosh
Did you know Todd Frazier played in the LLWS?
Next thing they'll try to tell us a pro QB went to Harvard
Okoye came to the u.s. at 21, played football at 23
So he was right?
Chris Manhertz never played any football besides Madden, but got some tryouts based on his college basketball career and size and has now been a tight end on a few different teams for a decade.
Okoye didn't play football until 23. He arrived in America at 21.
Amobi okoye was drafted by the Texans at 18-19 if I remember correctly
Quite a few O linemen never play a snap of football until they're invited to training camp, because the strength and body type of shot putters/strongmen/rugby blockers happens to translate very nicely. Even more impressive considering how cognitive of a position it is with technique and assignments.
Nick Hardwick didn’t even play football until like his junior year of college and then walked on to become a future pro bowl center in the NFL.
That's an interesting point and I've wondered about that translation in the past. The Pats have had their share of dudes who wrestled in college and then turned out to be good OL, dudes who did hammer throw and turned out to be good OL, dudes who played tuba and...weren't that good at OL, but they got a fair crack at it. The mass/strength component obviously makes sense ("Can't coach size") but you'd assume that after QB, TE, and WR, the next most difficult position to learn from scratch would be OL. What's up with that?
I would say wrestling is very useful for big guys when they are younger to work on coordination and technique. Stephen Neal beat Brock Lesnar who was a genetic freak. Neal obviously has amazing genetics as well but that little extra.
Wrestling also teaches a lot about leverage and hand-fighting, which are important skills for linemen
Personally I think for some people football skills are very intuitive, blocking in particular. I wasn’t anything special when I played, but I was an above average blocker and I remember it being something that just made sense from day 1. Much more so than skills like dribbling/shooting a basketball. I imagine many of these wrestlers and athletes from other sports just have 200 IQ brains for “leveraging” that translates quickly to blocking and other lineman skills. Also being a lineman requires smarts, but less “I spent 7 years mastering this single topic for my PhD” smarts, and more “I can make many very good decisions in a single moment” kind of smarts.
And they might have an added benefit from starting fresh in the world's hardest league. No chance to develop bad habits from out-muscling guys through HS and college.
Alejandro Villanueva played WR in college and then transitioned to OL in the pros.
Yup. Patriots had some former college wrestler in their early Brady superbowl teams and he was a solid player on the O-line.
George Fant was like this. Was playing basketball in college and got invited to training camp during his last year. Plays one season and gets drafted
Theres also a bunch of just big football players swapping in to line or sometimes tight end Like how multiple qbs like Lane Johnson and Blake Bell put up solid numbers at one point or another because of their size, then shifted over, and got drafted
Wrestlers too. Carlton Haselrig won 6 NCAA heavyweight championships (a feat no can match since they've changed the rules) in wrestling, didn't play college football, and he ended up a great guard for the Steelers.
Ask Jordan Mailata, lol.
From what i can see, he grew up playing rugby, so he had a basis in place. I was mostly referring to someone that hasn't played football or rugby or something similar, before they start playing football.
Having not played any contact sports, your biggest hurdle is going to be initiating and enjoying contact
He has said in interviews none of the rugby stuff helped. They aren’t comparable sports in the slightest. Watch the New Heights Jordan Mailata episode. Nothing translates.
Yea as the reverse of that I played football in highschool and joined club rugby in college and the first thing they tell all of the former football players is to throw all of that out of the window.
I played college rugby, and a bunch of the football guys would get a handful of concussions and then quit because they couldn’t stop trying to tackle with their face.
Maybe in terms of what he qualifies as “the rugby stuff” but certainly playing the sport of rugby at a high level helped immensely. The coordination, mentality, movement, contact, if he’d just been a big dude with no athletic background beyond just being fit he’d’ve been a much different person/player…
There's plenty of examples of guys not playing prior to joining the league. Usually guys who played a different sport at a high level. Mailata didn't play until he was 22 and is one of the best OL in the league. Stephen Neal played HS football but skipped CFB to win multiple wrestling national titles then post college played 10 years and won three super bowls. Brock Lesnar never played football in his life and managed to get a camp invite with Minnesota when he was 27. Probably helped that he was a NCAA wrestling champion and could run a 4.6 at 295lbs.
Brock realized he couldn't just suplex players left and right
Don't think Lesner could have pissed clean for the NFL over the long term.
do you really think the NFL tests for PED’s..?
Lane Johnson served a 4 game suspension in 2014 then a 10 game suspension in 2016 for PEDs/banned substances. So yes, they do
I won’t get deep in the weeds here with specifics but rough equivalent of getting caught for PEDs in the NFL is the new BAC limit being .25 and getting a DUI…
Do you think it’s impossible to work around the testing and that every pro athlete is natty
No, but I was providing an example that the NFL does indeed test for certain banned substances considering Johnson got suspended twice
Don’t be silly. The testing isn’t nearly good enough for that to be a problem. “The suspensions only represent around 1% or fewer of all NFL players each year. But Yesalis long has suspected the actual PED usage is far greater, much like in cycling, where admitted dopers avoided testing positive in drug tests. “Only careless and stupid people get caught,” he said.” “On the other hand, the NFL’s PED policy is not set by an independent party such as USADA. The policy instead is made in a negotiation between league management and the players’ union, both of which arguably have an interest in keeping a lid on the problem.” Penalties are also minor, usually 4-6 game suspensions. And plenty of former players have called the steroid tests IQ tests
You got a source for that 40 time?
Had it wrong he was 285 and ran a 4.7. 35in vertical, 10ft broad jump and 30reps at 225 https://www.essentiallysports.com/wwe-news-nfl-did-286lbs-brock-lesnar-perform-better-at-the-nfl-combine-than-tom-brady/
Damn, those are still wild numbers!
Look at how many TEs played college basketball and then joined the NFL. Tons.
Stephen Neal actually beat Brock in the 1999 NCAA wrestling finals for his second straight title. I wrestled in high-school in Maine in the mid 2000's we watched that match with the team because everyone aside from me were patriots fans.
I don’t think it’s talked enough about that he, with no football experience past high school, managed to play preseason snaps for an NFL team at 27 just by straight athleticism (after getting hurt earlier that year) That plus the obvious NCAA wrestling, him being a prodigy in WWE, casually waltzing into the UFC and winning a belt, etc I think there’s an argument he might be the greatest pure athlete we’ve ever seen
OP, you're too old
This is the real answer
If coach would have put me in, 4th quarter...
Yeah put the pads down holy shit
Definitely younger than 57.
For most people you have to start playing by Freshmen year and be dominant at your position by Junior year so you can get drafted by a program that will have NFL Scouts checking in. There's a bunch of outliers but they are just that.
Some people are freaks of nature and turned up sophomore year and immediately became P4 players They also were 6”6 330 lbs lol Tom Brady was a JV backup like yours truly until he hit his growth spurt and grew to be 6”4 lol For 95 percent of us we’d be 1 way players on JV and be role players on varsity with average genes regardless of when we start I’m coaching a kid now he’s 6”1 175 lbs he didn’t start football until 9th grade. He’s way better than someone 5”7 145 that’s been playing since 9 because he’s way bigger lol
I started tackle football at age 10. That actually is the safest age for football actually The most dangerous ages are 7th and 8th grade substantially (extreme variances in size with no weight limits) followed by hs Varsity. The average hs varsity just is dangerous because grown men are playing and most kids platoon 1 way or see the field in limited roles
There's been instances of players not starting to play football until late in their high school career. I'd say to answer your question they would have to put something together in college to be able to be drafted. Even if it's not good.
Luis Perez walked on his CC team and became a Harlan hill winner and played 8 years of semi pro ball with a cup of coffee in the nfl
Jimmy Graham (TE) played one year of college football after playing basketball. That would have put him around 23 when he started playing college football. I'm not sure if he played football in high school. But I'd say Graham represents an extreme outlier. He is incredibly talented and gifted athletically.
I never knew he played basketball
Renaldo Nehemiah was a world champion track star in the hurdles who never played football at all yet managed to make the 49ers roster as receiver where he played for 3 years. His stats are forgettable, 40 something career catches for 700 something yards but the mere fact he made the roster and hung around for 3 years with zero football experience shows what a freak athlete he was.
Bill Schroeder tried out for the University of WI - LaCrosse football team as a 5th year Senior after exhausting his eligibility as a track and field star for the university. Had a pretty great NFL career as a returner and played in the Super Bowl
I went to hs with Tamba Hali and he didn’t play until I think his sophomore year, went to penn st and was first round pick. Plus his dad was our science teacher.
Bills just drafted a rugby player off of a Pro Day.
Yes many can do that. Puberty has to hit them like a truck, have to have good coaches, a good genetic background, and have the game be something that naturally clicks for them. If you are a highschooler asking this, while it can work for many the likelihood of it happening is still low. Doesn’t mean trying out for the team or any of your high school sports teams is not worth it!
At the average public school as long as it’s not baseball or basketball as long as you show up freshman year and want to play you’ll be just fine
Really depends on the state and area. Some high schools do have try outs and players compete for the ability to dress on game day. As they only have a limited amount of pads and jersey's. Others are just trying to be able to have enough guys to fill a roster for an entire season across all 3 levels (freshman, JV and Varsity) and will gladly take anyone they can on their roster.
I’ve never seen a school like the former post 2012 when football parcip cratered The only schools I’ve seen like #1 recruited up and down the country and played as a national schedule- guess who didn’t make the travel squad LOL or were in Texas
Nathan Peterman still hasn’t played a snap of football zing
Yes he has? Am I wooshed?
learn to kick field goals. there is a high and unmet demand for reliable kickers.
There are hundreds of kickers across the nation in college and exactly 32 NFL positions most of which are not considered "open". Statistically kickers are getting better and better over the decade.
Most people don't know this, but Antonio Gates didn't even play football in college and actually played basketball.
Pretty sure anyone that is a football fan knows this, he's not the only one either
Yes, that comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek. He's usually the first person brought up in one of these posts
53 at the most.
Brandon Aubrey was a 28 year old rookie kicker and was 1st team All Pro just this past year. He transitioned from soccer to placekicking, so if you grow up playing soccer or don't have the physical size to be a real football player you could always try to become a kicker or punter. High school coaches sometimes recruit from the soccer team just to find someone with the ability to kick without needing as much coaching
I was looking for this answer. Aubrey definitely fits the criteria of the question.
I think a lot are saying players don’t need to until college, but realistically most of the guys drafted have played since before high school. I’d say 14 is kind of the sweet spot where you’d need to start if your a great athlete but not a super athlete. Guys who don’t play until college are definitely special. There are also more guys that play from 3rd grade and don’t even make it to college.
It would depend on size, athleticism, and the position. High School is plenty of time, though, assuming one is willing to put in the work and has good coaching.
Brandon Weeden got drafted at age 28.
Had an MLB career before going to play college football at 23
There's a lot of guys in the NFL who only started playing in college. Being a natural athlete is pretty big but a lot of it is just putting in work and understanding the game. A question like this never has a correct answer because every human on planet earth is different.
I don’t think Margus Hunt played football until his Jr or Senior year of college at SMU and he was a second round pick for us.
Yeah that's exactly who I was thinking about. Granted it was a terrible 2nd round pick like most of our picks back then. But the point still stands, he played NFL downs and grabbed a few sacks.
I know you’re probably not talking about kickers but you get guys who have never seen a gridiron until they are well into their 20s suiting up as pros
There was a kid at my high school that was an incredible athlete, but he didn't play football. Somehow he started playing in division 3 college and set the team record for tackles as a linebacker. He didn't get drafted, but did sign with the Jets and played in the preseason before getting cut.
Honestly depends on the level of athlete said person is. People have mentioned Jordan Mailata, I also remember Christian Okoye, who had never even SEEN American football, let alone played it, before getting convinced to play at Azusa Pacific University near Los Angeles. He was 23 and was drafted by the Chiefs at 25.
Ask Howie Long. He didn’t play until college
My entire high school essentially never played a snap of organized football prior to high school as it wasn’t a big thing to do in the area. It’s also one of the best if not best high schools in the state. Now that was a while ago and things changed. But most guys who became d1 football guys were converted from other sports. I don’t think you really should be playing football when you are young anyways unless it’s like 7on7. Other sports do just fine developing the same skills without having to go knock some skulls
Some players have only started playing in high school (or even later, as people are pointing out with Mailata et al). So it’s certainly possible. But the chances of making the NFL with such a late start are likely way lower when starting that late, controlling for talent.
I could see a kicker starting at like 25, dominating, and getting drafted late
Ziggy Ansah didn’t start playing football until he was like 21-22 (maybe). He got drafted top five two years later.
High school
I’m surprised no one has mentioned Gable Steveson yet. ELITE gold medal winning/two time NCAA championship winning wrestler who recently signed as a defensive end for the Bills. He is unproven of course but if you’ve got size and athleticism there’s really no defined limit.
Dalton Kincaid literally never played a snap of football before his senior year of highschool and didn’t play college football until he was 22.
That’s not true
It’s the internet believe it
I'd say around 21. Seeing interviews with Olympians after the trials in various sports, I've been struck with how impressive you have to be as an overall human being to make it in most sports. Football and basketball are not this way. In many football positions you mostly just have to be born with a world class combination of size and agility or speed. Same in basketball but also throw in an unnaturally long wing span there. Hard work and experience are valuable but optional in football and basketball.
Michael Strahan started relatively late. Played a little pee wee, but no HS level football until his senior year.
Weinke was 28 when he was drafted.
The hardest part is getting colleges to notice you if you are late to football. Most local scouts have their guys they like by a players Junior year. Not getting that attention means you either have to be a genetic freak, attempt to walk on or attempt to create buzz at a lower level in college before transferring. Though remember most colleges really only care about your height/weight/speed potential. I have known terrible OL that were getting D2 interest because they were 6'5" 240lbs when better OL who were around 6ft or smaller generated nothing. Colleges are willing to gamble on traits. The guys that barely played or never played in today's game are often from foreign initiative NFL has where players can be on PS without taking a spot and are also physical specimens. This is how Jordan Mailata went to the Eagles.
Stephen Neal was the starting guard for the Pats for 81 games, winning three SBs. He didn't play football until he was in the NFL. He was a champion, top tier collegiate & Olympic wrestler that Tom Brady scouted, brought in as a rookie free agent and developed into one of the core contributors of the first dynasty. Great example of Brady as the talent evaluator and GM.
Christian Okoye played just three seasons of organized football before he was a second-round draft choice of Kansas City and went on to lead the league in rushing
Chargers had a pretty good punter named Darren Bennett in the 90s who only played Australian rules football before coming to the NFL at the age of 29, but they're close enough it probably wasn't that big a learning curve
Michael Dickson started at age 19. Won the Ray Guy award his final year of college. He was all pro his rookie year. Of course he's a punter so ...
45
Well our punter, Lou Hedley , age 31 was a UDFA last year. Who knows if he will acclimate to American Football.
It doesn’t matter to a degree. Intangibles matter more. Joel Embiid didn’t touch a basketball till nearly 16 and he’s an MVP in the NBA. Size Athleticism Intuition are by far the most important for sports. Intuitions probably the third most important while simultaneously being the most important when it comes to development.
Brother if you’re 6’4 290 you bet your ass the nfl is gunna be looking at you if you have a decent kickback lmao Same with just being 7’. The nba wil for sure give you a look if you can run down a court without breaking your feet haha
Football is glorified track & field. Not much to learn.
17 easily
Mike Anderson didn’t start playing football until after he joined the Marine Corps.
Terrell Owens didn’t play football until his junior year of high school. Only caught 115 passes and 12 TDs throughout college at Chattanooga. Went on to become top 3 all time at his position
Early 20s but only if you're already an elite athlete and generally only in positions where that trumps football IQ like offensive and defensive line.
There are plenty of amazing NFL players that didn't start playing football until late highschool or even college. Bottom line, A lot more started late than you would think.
College age but they would have to have the ideal size or speed but neither of those mean anything without toughness you can be the biggest or fastest guy in the world but that means nothing on the gridiron. A guy like Usain bolt is fast as lightning but that doesn't mean he could play football at all
College/17-19
Ziggy Ansah had never played a down of football until he was 21 and then was a top 5 draft pick.
All I know is it’s never too late! Injuries can end a career as a player but not as a coach or broadcaster!
I'm sure there are some physical freaks in the NBA who would get a tryout from an NFL team at age 26-28 despite never having played organized football.