the sample for this poll was all NYS voters i.e suburbanites that didn't want to pay the toll. of course they're going to oppose. now i wonder what the poll of **JUST nyc residents, the people that stand to gain the most, would look like
considering the entire issue surrounds people... driving into manhattan...... it would stand to reason that if you don't drive into manhattan at all then this doesn't really affect you
the poll is specifically asking drivers in relation to how they'd be affected by congestion pricing . your point is a non factor here . moreover the idea is to put those mostly single seat passengers onto public transportation which would further reduce the impact to other neighborhoods.
Yes, that would give you a bigger sample of NYC voters, which would raise the accuracy. But even so, 40% of the respondents in this poll were from NYC, and among just those respondents, people were anti-congestion pricing.
Edit: what’s funny is that Siena poll is to my knowledge the only recent poll on the issue. Seems odd nobody else has been polling it, including polling a ~1000 person sample of only NYC residents.
here's my comment again since you didn't read it the first time:
>the sample for this poll was all NYS voters i.e suburbanites that didn't want to pay the toll. of course they're going to oppose. now i wonder what the poll of nyc residents, the people that stand to gain the most, would look like
Probably not going to be that much different considering almost half of NYC households have cars. So majority of those people will oppose.
And then you have to consider how traffic is going to increase in neighborhoods outside of the congestion zone and those people will oppose. And then you have people that just hate additional taxes regardless of what it is or if they are impacted and they will oppose.
Congestion pricing really only benefits Manhattanites in the congestion zone. Why would someone deep in Brooklyn or Bronx with a car vote for it? Because the MTA "promises" to spend it on investments?
MTA promises don't mean anything.
Areas in Brooklyn and the Bronx will be negatively impacted (excluding improvements to MTA in that area).
There is a wide array of opposition.
I oppose simply for the lack of agreements on investments for the affected areas.
This is subjective but the main support I have been seeing is from those that live in Midtown areas.
I think it's selfish and dismissive of those that will be impacted.
Who the fuck is surprised that someone in Buffalo doesn't want to pay a toll to drive into midtown?
[https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/01/17/poll-city-support-for-congestion-pricing-is-even-stronger-than-statewide](https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/01/17/poll-city-support-for-congestion-pricing-is-even-stronger-than-statewide)
\^ this has the data from a 2019 Siena poll, but only for the five boroughs. people that live in nyc want it, people that live in long island and upstate don't want it. duh
NYP did a breakdown on April 2024 numbers. Upstate have by far the least opposition to congestion pricing. But in general, the polling numbers says support dropped drastically from 2019. 64% against from just the city itself.
https://nypost.com/2024/04/22/us-news/ny-voters-overwhelmingly-reject-new-15-congestion-toll-poll/
sure. but it feels like this post was made with the intention to mislead with the term "new yorkers" (and the siena poll linked in the OP's article doesn't get into anything more detailed than the entire state population)
Although this post uses the accurate percentage for NYC respondents, so I don’t think it’s misleading (even if “New Yorkers” is ambiguous).
I had to look at the actual poll results published by Siena to see the sample makeup.
"44% say they don't go into Manhattan" This was a poll across the entire state, including people who are completely unaffected. Every other congestion pricing plan has been unpopular when it was implemented and then saw support grow as the benefits were realized. I guess we'll never know.
No one is ever going to say "yea sure, let's have more fees/taxes!" when polled. But unfortunately taxes are essential to the functioning of government and society. I know that Hochul is a representative of citizens' interests, but there are times when leaders need to make unpopular decisions for the greater good. And IMO this was one of those times, if Hochul hadn't been too chicken shit and had a backbone.
Not claiming we don't already have high taxes, but we also constantly have budget constraints and shortfalls. I know there is a LOT more contributing to that (graft, inefficiencies, migrant housing and support, yada yada), but this certainly isn't going to help. I accept that living in NY is just going to require high taxes. Their costs are high, so it comes with the territory.
I'll trade the naysayers a few hours shaved off the congestion window per day, much cheaper weekends in exchange for a dedicated bus lane along major avenues in the outer boroughs for express buses. When I say dedicated, I mean only buses in both directions. ONLY buses. No cabs. No Ubers. No nothing except buses.
I think it's class warfare.
I think the rich residents in midtown manhatten (East village, West village, Chelsea etc included) are trying to divert pollution into the low income areas of the Bronx.
If the toll is going to be implemented, I want an actual agreement of investments into the affected areas in the Bronx, not a promise that does not mean anything.
But those residents don't want to hear it or just dismiss the claim.
I noticed I was upvoted a lot and then it went down.
I'm not against the toll. But I don't want it implemented until there is an agreement of investments into the Bronx.
I don't understand why that is wrong. It's not fair to low income residents in the Bronx that will face the increased pollution.
That's unfair and it's not just one small part of the city. It's the part of the city with the lowest income groups and marginalized groups.
This is warfare on the low income groups in that area.
Why should they have to suffer more.
I'm just asking for an agreement on community investments for that area.
the sample for this poll was all NYS voters i.e suburbanites that didn't want to pay the toll. of course they're going to oppose. now i wonder what the poll of **JUST nyc residents, the people that stand to gain the most, would look like
60% oppose in the city, 72% oppose in the burbs.
44% of those people don't drive into manhattan at all lol
Makes sense. Congestion pricing is going to increase traffic just outside the area where it takes effect.
Is that supposed to mean something? Should tax payers without kids not vote or have an opinion on matters impacting schools?
considering the entire issue surrounds people... driving into manhattan...... it would stand to reason that if you don't drive into manhattan at all then this doesn't really affect you
That’s not true though, you have to consider how the traffic patterns will change in other neighborhoods to avoid the tolls
the poll is specifically asking drivers in relation to how they'd be affected by congestion pricing . your point is a non factor here . moreover the idea is to put those mostly single seat passengers onto public transportation which would further reduce the impact to other neighborhoods.
The poll included NYC residents.
it should exclude NYS
Yes, that would give you a bigger sample of NYC voters, which would raise the accuracy. But even so, 40% of the respondents in this poll were from NYC, and among just those respondents, people were anti-congestion pricing. Edit: what’s funny is that Siena poll is to my knowledge the only recent poll on the issue. Seems odd nobody else has been polling it, including polling a ~1000 person sample of only NYC residents.
here's my comment again since you didn't read it the first time: >the sample for this poll was all NYS voters i.e suburbanites that didn't want to pay the toll. of course they're going to oppose. now i wonder what the poll of nyc residents, the people that stand to gain the most, would look like
40% of the respondents were from NYC. Of that 40%, two thirds did not support congestion pricing.
Probably not going to be that much different considering almost half of NYC households have cars. So majority of those people will oppose. And then you have to consider how traffic is going to increase in neighborhoods outside of the congestion zone and those people will oppose. And then you have people that just hate additional taxes regardless of what it is or if they are impacted and they will oppose. Congestion pricing really only benefits Manhattanites in the congestion zone. Why would someone deep in Brooklyn or Bronx with a car vote for it? Because the MTA "promises" to spend it on investments?
MTA promises don't mean anything. Areas in Brooklyn and the Bronx will be negatively impacted (excluding improvements to MTA in that area). There is a wide array of opposition. I oppose simply for the lack of agreements on investments for the affected areas. This is subjective but the main support I have been seeing is from those that live in Midtown areas. I think it's selfish and dismissive of those that will be impacted.
Who the fuck is surprised that someone in Buffalo doesn't want to pay a toll to drive into midtown? [https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/01/17/poll-city-support-for-congestion-pricing-is-even-stronger-than-statewide](https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/01/17/poll-city-support-for-congestion-pricing-is-even-stronger-than-statewide) \^ this has the data from a 2019 Siena poll, but only for the five boroughs. people that live in nyc want it, people that live in long island and upstate don't want it. duh
NYP did a breakdown on April 2024 numbers. Upstate have by far the least opposition to congestion pricing. But in general, the polling numbers says support dropped drastically from 2019. 64% against from just the city itself. https://nypost.com/2024/04/22/us-news/ny-voters-overwhelmingly-reject-new-15-congestion-toll-poll/
Although opinions can change over time, especially as the issues become closer to realization. In 2019 this was pretty abstract.
sure. but it feels like this post was made with the intention to mislead with the term "new yorkers" (and the siena poll linked in the OP's article doesn't get into anything more detailed than the entire state population)
Although this post uses the accurate percentage for NYC respondents, so I don’t think it’s misleading (even if “New Yorkers” is ambiguous). I had to look at the actual poll results published by Siena to see the sample makeup.
"44% say they don't go into Manhattan" This was a poll across the entire state, including people who are completely unaffected. Every other congestion pricing plan has been unpopular when it was implemented and then saw support grow as the benefits were realized. I guess we'll never know.
40% of the respondents were from NYC. Of that 40%, two thirds did not support congestion pricing.
you made your account like 1 week ago just to be a jerk on reddit
No one is ever going to say "yea sure, let's have more fees/taxes!" when polled. But unfortunately taxes are essential to the functioning of government and society. I know that Hochul is a representative of citizens' interests, but there are times when leaders need to make unpopular decisions for the greater good. And IMO this was one of those times, if Hochul hadn't been too chicken shit and had a backbone.
You make it sound like we have zero taxes. NYC already has some of the highest taxes in the nation.
Not claiming we don't already have high taxes, but we also constantly have budget constraints and shortfalls. I know there is a LOT more contributing to that (graft, inefficiencies, migrant housing and support, yada yada), but this certainly isn't going to help. I accept that living in NY is just going to require high taxes. Their costs are high, so it comes with the territory.
99.9 % of Reddit was for congestion pricing why is that? 🤔
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/6f447d85-f772-4b3d-ba03-26843c824203
I'll trade the naysayers a few hours shaved off the congestion window per day, much cheaper weekends in exchange for a dedicated bus lane along major avenues in the outer boroughs for express buses. When I say dedicated, I mean only buses in both directions. ONLY buses. No cabs. No Ubers. No nothing except buses.
Wouldn't be able to tell from the bitching and moaning in the NYC subs lol
I think it's class warfare. I think the rich residents in midtown manhatten (East village, West village, Chelsea etc included) are trying to divert pollution into the low income areas of the Bronx. If the toll is going to be implemented, I want an actual agreement of investments into the affected areas in the Bronx, not a promise that does not mean anything. But those residents don't want to hear it or just dismiss the claim.
My evil plan would have succeeded if it weren’t for that old lady in Albany!
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I saw a man literally have sex with a bag of fast food the other week on a subway….
I noticed I was upvoted a lot and then it went down. I'm not against the toll. But I don't want it implemented until there is an agreement of investments into the Bronx. I don't understand why that is wrong. It's not fair to low income residents in the Bronx that will face the increased pollution.
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I'm talking about pollution. You are dismissing the pollution in the Bronx getting worse. This is what I'm talking about.
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That's unfair and it's not just one small part of the city. It's the part of the city with the lowest income groups and marginalized groups. This is warfare on the low income groups in that area. Why should they have to suffer more. I'm just asking for an agreement on community investments for that area.
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If you truly believe that, I don't see a reason to continue this conversation, I'm not going to change your mind.
exactly.
And no one is getting it. They can reeeee all their want. Kathy came in clutch.
🎉🎉🎉