The war on democracy and human rights is [global](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ai-hate-content-1.7215369). They attack him personally, but global enemies of democracy would attack any democratically elected representative with the same ceaseless flame thrower of hatred, misinformation, distortion and deflection. And they do. Defend democracy and human rights like your life depends on it.
That’s the self destructive problem of politics built on hate. Once the out group is destroyed, another is needed. It won’t be to long before you could be on that list.
They won’t do this to PP. just like they didn’t for trump.
They want western countries to be ran by right wing nut jobs because right wing nut jobs take bribes.
But to be clear. I think we are over estimating the role and effect China and Russia have. They don’t create the hysteria they just help it.
The more we let people blame foreign nations the less we take responsibility for the problems we have domestically.
>They want western countries to be ran by right wing nut jobs because right wing nut jobs take bribes.
Have we already forgotten the WE Charity scandal, or the Chinese donations to the
Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation?
Would, and do. Any bad faith argument against a decent democratically elected individual or party that successfully convinces a progressive to not vote, is a win for the anti-democratic.
I wish people would stop falling for this shit.
We don’t have this problem in Canada. Progressives vote liberal or NDP.
Progressives are justified in not wanting to vote for the Democrats especially when the democrats act like republicans.
Here in Canada the further right the liberal party goes the more support the NDP have. Imo, I think polls are really fishy and don’t make a lot of sense. Even if they are real. The NDP and liberals put together would still win an election over a 40% polling Conservative Party.
In a proportional voting system (like the one I had in Germany), this would be pretty awesome because any percentage that the liberals lose to the NDP keeps the "not right-wing nutjobs" percentage unchanged.
With FPTP, shifting even small percentages from one party to the other can seriously hurt things.
I don’t really trust polls because they aren’t perfect, but it is clear that Poilievre has a significant lead. Unfortunately I think the vote split between the liberals and NDP will lead to a conservative government(this is why we need ranked choice ballots).
I do have three predictions which could make this race closer than it seems though.
First, I think people will experience fatigue from Poilivres endless barrage of garbage. He’s been actively campaigning for a year, and we are still more than a year out from the election. This isn’t america, Canadians don’t have the patience for this long of a political race. As we draw closer to the election he will need to actually start building a platform, and he will have to actually take a stance on some key issues that he basically avoids talking about because he knows it will split his voter base. Like LGBT rights and abortion rights. Currently it’s a lot of dog whistles because he doesn’t want to risk upsetting his more progressive voters by giving away his true intentions.
Secondly, I think the liberals have more of a plan behind the scenes than people think. I think they realize that people can’t stand a 2.5 year campaign in Canada, so they are letting Poilievre waste his breath so people get tired of hearing his bullshit over and over again. He has a lead right now, but he’s also been campaigning pretty much un opposed. When campaign season actually starts, the gloves will come off and the opposition is not going to go easy on him because he has over his career and especially the last year said a lot of stupid things they can call him on.
Lastly, I think Trudeau is postering when he says he is going to/considering running again next year. He is tired of politics(this much has been said to some extent and it also contributed to his divorce). He also knows that the campaign Poilievre has led against him has been extremely targeted and effective, and in general no prime minister wins an election past ten years. Canadians always want change after that long. But because the attacks on him have been so targeted, he is going to let it continue, he’s going to keep taking heat, and then maybe at the end of this year or the start of next year when election season is really starting to kick off, he will announce he’s stepping down as the liberal party leader and propose some kind of replacement(David Eby would be great IMO although his unpopular decriminalization policy may be used as a wedge issue that could hurt his chances).
After he announces his replacement, a huge amount of the effort that the conservatives have directed almost directly at Trudeau will be wasted, and they will need to pivot to attack the new leader but will only have 9-12 months to build momentum against rather than 10+ years of targeted attacks. Sure, there will still be axe the tax and all the other rhetoric, but a huge amount of the disdain for the liberal party is more specifically disdain for Trudeau, and unengaged voters who fell for the grift and are tired of Trudeau will now see a fresh new face who hasn’t had targeted campaigns run against them for more than a decade.
>this is why we need ranked choice ballots).
MMP! HATE ranked choice almost as much as FPTP. Rank choice is still voting ranking least worst to worst.
>First, I think people will experience fatigue from Poilivres endless barrage of garbage. He’s been actively campaigning for a year, and we are still more than a year out from the election. This isn’t america, Canadians don’t have the patience for this long of a political race
I used to think this way. But Trump made me think differently. More Canadians understand the US electoral system than the Canadian one, and more of them follow US politics it seems, that maybe Canadians do like loooonng campaigns. (I personally don't)
PP Millhouse is testing the waters and we'll see how well it works.
> I think the liberals have more of a plan behind the scenes than people think
I agree, the Liberals biggest strength is their ability to campaign, their muzzling of their MPPs and creating a controlled message is second to none in North America. And they know how to engage during campaigns. But I not yet sure if their attack will be to stem voters who may vote Conservative, or to try and steal NDP voters with driving the ABC vote. I always enjoy the Liberals campaign machine.
>, I think Trudeau is postering when he says he is going to/considering running again next year. He is tired of politics(this much has been said to some extent and it also contributed to his divorce).
I'm not sure about this. It goes against most political science. You waste your incumbent advantage with a change too close to an election, you also deplete party funds by running a leadership race, and going into an election with just an interem leader is a HARD win if you are the incumbent party.
>>I'm not sure about this. It goes against most political science. You waste your incumbent advantage with a change too close to an election, you also deplete party funds by running a leadership race, and going into an election with just an interem leader is a HARD win if you are the incumbent party.
This isn’t a typical race though. The opposition has run a targeted campaign against a specific leader for more than 10 years. Like obviously they dislike the party in general, but they say Trudeau every other sentence, not “the liberal party” because they’ve made this a race of idols(like in the USA). Their entire schtick is literally selling t shirts and hats and bumper stickers that say “fuck trudeau”. This is targeted on a level not yet seen, to the point where people hear, see, and associate the leadership much more with Trudeau than they do the liberal party itself.
But by doing this they’ve dug themselves into a hole. The rage has been directed entirely at Trudeau for 10+ years, and if he’s gone, there is still rage but it’s not nearly as targeted or motivated. The less time the opposition has to pivot and attack the new leader the better.
And they can avoid the pitfalls of running a new leader by electing someone who has had a positive national spotlight like David Eby. He’s not a new face, but he’s a new face for the liberal party. People know him and across the country pretty much any progressive likes him. He doesn’t need to start from the ground up, he just needs to say, “Look at what I’ve done, I’ve made big, positive change in BC, and when I’ve done wrong I’ve been willing to admit my mistakes and correct them because I serve the people.”
I love all these ideas but I really want to know your rational for suggesting that David Eby ( BC NDP leader ) would resign from a premiership, arguably during a BC NDP golden age to then go run at the national level for the Liberals?
It’s not exactly a likely outcome, but it could happen. If the Iiberals want to make a shift left and they want a guy with good name recognition who isn’t associated with the previous leadership they could ask him, and if Eby is ambitious he could certainly try for it.
He has an election coming up in the fall which makes it a little odd, because it’s probably too late to reasonably announce he’s handing over leadership so he would need to do it after the election which isn’t the best look.
>This isn’t a typical race though
I agree here.
>Like obviously they dislike the party in general, but they say Trudeau every other sentence, not “the liberal party” because they’ve made this a race of idols(like in the USA).
Yes they really dislike Trudeau, BUT! It was the Liberal campaign machine that turned Canadian politics into a race of idols. #TeamTrudeau was a campaign hashtag and was prominent on every Liberal lawn sign. So the Conservatives are trying to kill an obviously effective strategy, especially since they've got a terrible leader to try and build and idol style campaign around. TeamPP would be destroyed in memes.
>But by doing this they’ve dug themselves into a hole. The rage has been directed entirely at Trudeau for 10+ years, and if he’s gone, there is still rage but it’s not nearly as targeted or motivated. The less time the opposition has to pivot and attack the new leader the better.
Agreed, but at the same time the Liberals have done a terrible job at putting MP's in the spotlight to get name recognition because the Liberals and the PMO have also built the party around a select few, I think people would be hard pressed to name more than 5 Federal Liberals if they were undecided swing voters.
The Liberals haven't cultivated a leader in waiting, for. While it seemed like Freeland would be that leader, but she's been killing her own brand for the last year or so and I don't think she'll win over NDP or swing support, she'll stop GTA bleeding at best.
>And they can avoid the pitfalls of running a new leader by electing someone who has had a positive national spotlight like David Eby
Has David indicated he wants to make the jump to Federal politics? And that he is interested in a Liberal seat? I haven't followed him much beyond my respect for how he is addressing housing. More so as a See DoFo a Primeir CAN do real changes.
I don't know if David could really grab the east coast swing voter, but again he hasn't been really on my radar beyond housing.
Would be VERY interesting strategy for the Liberals if they did try this move and how the Conservatives would spin the move. Would they shift to a "even the rats are fleeing a sinking ship" or would they then refocus on a new leader and try and tarnish him, it failed miserably when they ran the "he's just not ready" messaging in 2015. Did they learn from that (50/50 they didn't since they're pretty thick headed)
Hate ranked ballots? You’ve really been influenced by the NDP’s ridiculous stance on this. It’s FAR better than FPTP - hope you don’t complain about strategic voting. The NDP has polled as most popular second choice since before 2019, their hysteria over the Liberals having the most to gain from it is laughable at this point. They have everything to gain from ranked choice and nothing to lose.
And while I support MMP theoretically, putting it into practice in a country that is allergic to coalitions at the federal level, and when the extreme rightwing CPC has been winning the popular vote and standa to win it by far more in the next election, the reaction to the CPC being shut out of government by a formal coalition between the NDP and Liberals would be explosive.
>Hate ranked ballots?
Yes.
Ranked ballots in an age of social media doesn't stop the election being primarily focused on the party leader. Ranked ballots does nothing to encourage better local representation and more parties to choose from. It is just a slight shifted FPTP system. And it's now we got Doug Ford in Ontario.
>And while I support MMP theoretically, putting it into practice in a country that is allergic to coalitions at the federal level
With only real 3 parties to choose from and the reality is 2 of them could never work together, of course coalitions aren't cultivated. Ranked ballots does nothing to cultivate coalitions or cross isle support. It creates a status quo government.
Which leads to complacency and expectations of winning by those who benefit most.
I agree totally. And his housing policy has been amazing so I’m hoping that people can start to feel the impact by election time although a year away is a little soon to really have an impact.
As a side, the whole drug thing is dumb as hell anyways. Alberta is also having more record deaths, and their per capita rate is practically the same. I understand he was basically forced to undo the change for political reasons but it’s shitty that it was framed as detrimental to the drug crisis when really it seems to have had little impact either way compared to other provinces.
I get ya.
But Trudeau isn’t being particularly coy about his intention to run.
If he was planning to bow out before the election he would of said something like “we will see” or “I have yet to make that determination” or “I’m focused on leading at the moment”
Instead of any of those, he keeps insisting he’s running again, because he “has to”.
I’m hopeful you are right about the “secret” agenda. The liberals need to energize voters and so far liberal policies have been more of the same neoliberal agenda that I feel the public has largely fallen out of love with. Subsidies for wealthy corporations and stable budgets over much needed investments.
Eh. I agree liberal policy isn’t great and I wish we had ranked choice voting so that the NDP had a real shot. They have done some good things though and I think they will harp on those things(covid response and recovery, they are starting to curb inflation and our economy hasn’t totally collapsed in the process, the child care benefit is great). I also think/ hope they will be more aggressive on some issues like housing/groceries, although it’s likely too little too late at this point.
I do sincerely think Trudeau will step down or be forced to though, and it’s sort of an open secret that he is feeling fatigued with life as a prime minister.
It’s still the most likely outcome that the conservatives win the next election but I hope to god we don’t have to endure 4 years of him undoing what little progress we’ve made in the last tens years with idiots cheering on his regressive policy.
The other potential deal with the devil is the liberals and NDP forming a coalition which I think would actually keep Poilievre out of office, but would also sort of hamstring the NDPs progress and make them settle into more neoliberal bullshit. Idk if I prefer the NDP shifting further right in a coalition or the whole country dealing with 4 years of regressive policy.
The NDP is extremely opposed to ranked ballots, if they weren’t, we could have had it for the last two elections. They want PR, specifically MMP, or FPTP. Nathan Cullen warned Trudeau that if he pushed through ranked ballots with his majority, that it would be like setting off nuclear war in Canadian politics. Singh and Trudeau discussed electoral reform when they made the C & S agreement, and neither would budge.
I am equally pisses with Trudeau and the NDP on this issue, the NDP was foolish, since they have been polling as most popular second choice since before 2019, and if we were going to adopt PR it should have been done before the extreme rightwing grew in support and became so enraged, it might have been manageable before 2019, but if we switched to PR at this point, and the CPC was kept out of government after winning the popular vote by a lot (if that happened), the level of rage could become violence quite easily.
I think Trudeau is falling for a classical Liberal pitfall. He won't give someone else the reins when his personal numbers dip to help the party's numbers stay up. Normally when a Liberal government falls, it's more of a referendum against the leader than against the party policy.
Thanks I didn’t realize the guy I was recommending was a premier, I thought he just had a cool name.
It’s obviously not the most likely scenario but it’s not out of the question for a premier to step up to federal politics. He’s certainly more progressive than the liberals but the provincial NDP isn’t associated with the federal NDP, he is well liked and has a great track record, and if the liberals decide they need to pivot and become slightly more progressive, he would be a great option to shift their image and give confidence to voters.
I’m most likely voting NDP but if Eby ran for the liberals that would probably change.
I mean, he does have a cool name. (He is also impressively tall.)
I bring up the New Democrat point because even Rachel Notley, whose admin was considered to be quite right-wing by NDP standards, considers herself as one. Ultimately there are a lot of factors that play into this. There is precedent for provincial NDPers to become federal Liberals (see Bob Rae of Ontario and Ujjal Dosanjh of B.C.), but both were pretty unpopular premiers for various reasons. Rae came into a government with wrecked finances needing him to come up with drastic measures to fix things, and Dosanjh inherited the premiership after scandals pushed out the last premier, and led the party to one of the worst political defeats in Commonwealth history.
I would’ve considered Nate Erskine-Smith to potentially be a provincial politician to jump to the federal Liberals in a prominent role (he ran for Ontario Liberal leader last year and came in second with a platform that could’ve stolen NDP votes), but he’s already said that he isn’t running. Notley would also be nice to see, but she probably won’t be jumping to federal politics and her position on pipelines might turn some people off. Plus, she doesn’t like Trudeau, and as mentioned before, she considers herself a New Democrat.
50 years ago if you wanted to influence public opinion in enemy territory with propaganda then you needed a lot of resources. Nowadays propaganda is published online with ease and is consumed by everyone, everywhere, all of the time, for free.
Tbh I don’t like the guy… but there is enough about him to dislike to not need to make bad faith arguments.
If you want to criticize the guy, stick to the truth. There’s already enough of that to go around without making democracy toxic.
But it all coming from PP and co because they know they can’t win arguments, they have to make shit up and use bad faith for rage farming in order to even have a chance… considering they donc have a program. You can’t win on ideas if you don’t have ideas.
Yes, but also... Is defensing Trudeau the same as defending democracy? This is the same guy that promised electoral reform 8 years ago, then ditched the promise that united people for his cause. It's also the same guy who supports the terrorist state of Isreal.
He is not exactly a stalwart of democracy. Nor is Canada's federal election a very good democratic institution.
Just look at the decline of public housing funding. Things have persistently gotten worst at the federal level for many many decades.
Don't get me wrong, im literally on the streets defending free speech against thr fascists. Im trans, i have to in order to even survive, but im defending my comrades... Not genocide Justin.
I’m no fan of Justin Trudeau but it’s absolutely true. The far right compulsion to make it about him as a person instead of his shitty neoliberal politics is just drowning everything else out.
Can't even have a fucking conversation about it with them.
"I struggle to reconcile Trudeau's stated feminism with his party's continued support of Canadian-Saudi arms contracts"
"YEAH AND TURDEAU DID BLACKFACE"
Guys at my work will literally compare him to Hitler but won't take the extra steps to explain why. I'm literally the lone person on my shift who doesn't unreasonably hate Trudeau. I don't like the guy, but he's not Hitler. I just hate when they start 'talking politics'.
Ask them why they love PP.
Ask them if they think he’s more like them and why.
I love those responses. They can’t. They immediately feel uncomfortable.
Next you're going to ask them why they think their brown skinned Canadian neighbor should go home or why they liked their neighborhood in the past when it was only white people in it. 🙄
Im seriously leaning towards the theory that an entire generation was brain damaged from lead poisoning.
Young men have been going down the alt-right path for quite some time, due to the left’s failure to appeal to them. As a result that demographic skews towards PP and the Cons.
Last time politics came up at work, that's how I swung it,
*"Trudeau sucks, but Polivere? Man, who'd vote for him? He comes off as weaselly and annoying, crying on Tiktok about his plane being delayed and blaming it on Trudeau, as if the PM controls the weather, all he ever does is whine, no solutions, he's a career politician too, never had a real job, always a cushy seat in parliament"* not the exact words, but the points I hit on.
Sure it's not criticizing policy, but it appeals to emotions, *and* it's not like I'm doing it to sneakily win approval - I genuinely think that Pierre Poilievre is an obnoxious weenie who hasn't held down any job outside of politics, he was a bench warmer in Parliament and that he has mega- "How do you do, fellow kids" energy, I just don't like him.
*Some* people got real quiet about Trudeau not being "working class" and "out of touch" when the last two Conservative leaders have both had zero real work experience out side of politics.
Pierre Poilievre has so many skeletons in his closet (Pierre's behaviour during Ottawa's occupation, Pierre downplaying the seriousness of the atrocities in Ukraine, repeatedly voting against support for them and dismissing Ukraine as a "far away foreign land.” The way he blatantly misconstrues municipal,provincial and federal issues, his underage birth mother, his parents leaving Quebec suspiciously around the collapse of the FLQ, his adopted father being a closeted homosexual, his wife's sketchy father, Pierre's lack of security clearance, his voting record under Harper, that Pierre was groomed as a child for politics by Jason Kenney and then had a close relationship with John Baird in Ottawa, his filibustering antics in Parliament by his party while he went to a fundraising dinner, his hostility to the media, and of course his unhealthy obsession with Justin Trudeau) that he really shouldn't be throwing any stones.
Tradesperson? I feel your pain. There are plenty of legitimate gripes with Trudeau. “Turning Canada cOmMuNiSt!!!” is not one of them, please just shut the fuck up Greg, we already know you aren’t a well adjusted adult and don’t know where to place your anger other than where the cons tell you to.
the more people irrationally hate him, the more it feels like the hatred of him IS irrational and in turn, the more my appreciation of him grows. because if it angers such morons...
Its just programming that's the full explanation for anything the right wing is doing
But fwiw i dated a psycho and she hated trudeau because she thought he fucked babies and covers up a secret child porn industry that makes up the majority of the canadian economy.
For like 50% of people youre being way too generous by assuming they have reason or sensibility to justify what they believe or feel.
Yep! This is part of why they hammer on so hard about the Blackface costumes but never actually talk about the systemic racism occurring under his government.
A lot of those policies started before he took office, either originating under Conservative governments, or being continued by them. They don't want to pressure him into ending policies they like.
It also means people often can't have meaningful discussions about those policies because the second you say "Trudeau" and "Racism" either you are immediately dismissed as buying into bad faith right wing attacks, or a conservative butts in to suck all the oxygen out of the room, shouting those bad faith right wing attacks.
Similarly, you can't criticize PP's history of racism and genocide denial in Parliament because again, a conservative will show up and start screaming "Blackface" until everyone leaves.
The struggle of being like "I'm disappointed in Justin Trudeau in a leftist way, I don't hate him in a FUCK TRUDEAU bumper sticker on my f250 kind of way" is so real
I've seen them blame him for the weather. Personally blame him for literally everything regardless if it's a local problem or not. It's weird and pathetic. People die in a car crash and he's blamed too.
The really stupid online anti trudeau discourse is identical to what I'd hear in mental health wards. Trudeau stole my juice, I'll execute him and the nursing staff.
I remember I once heard an older lady walk into a store and had a kinda smarmy tone of voice saying "Wow, look at this! Trudeau wants to get rid of our electricity and replace it with windmills" or something like that. Like the man wants private industry to make a lot of profit, what the fuck are you talking about lol.
It's seriously wild to me. You'd think that with so much conservative media and organisations like the IDU trying to sour people on Trudeau, they'd at the very least be pushing valid criticisms. Instead we get "Castro's bastard child," blackface, WEF conspiracy theories, "drama teacher," occasionally uses filler words like "uhh" when giving unrehearsed speeches, wants to force everyone to eat insects... it's wild.
its relentless and exhausting. It also prevents real criticism and discussion of his policies, instead youre left playing whackamole with blatant liars.
Second place is people saying "Jagmeet wears expensive suits and therefore bad" etc
Recently I've been seeing stickers at work of Trudeau dressed as a clown with the text "I did that" but the stickers aren't placed in spots that even mean anything
What did he do? Ventilate the building? Blow cold air? Be a table? I don't get it
> but the stickers aren't placed in spots that even mean anything
I once saw an "I DID THAT!" sticker where Trudeau was crouching and pointing on a gas pump. Except he was pointing away from the price.
>left playing whackamole with blatant liars.
This Gish Gallop is I think one of the most dangerous things Trump has brought into the mainstream.
"Donald Trump is probably unaware that he’s an avid practitioner of a debating method known among philosophers and rhetoricians as the Gish Gallop. Its aim is simple: to defeat one’s opponent by burying them in a torrent of incorrect, or idiotic arguments."
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/02/donald-trump-debate-strategy-gish-gallop/673061/
I think the thing you have to do, is just not play the game anymore. I have a cousin who uses this technique increasingly, and I've just sorta stopped engaging.
On the subject of whether one should bother debating these types of people:
"In any case, the notion that serious political arguments can be solved, or conspiracy theories aimed at undermining scientific reality debunked, in the course of 60- or 90-minute encounters between opponents is ludicrous.
“Debate is a sport,” Scott said. “It is not a way of informing the audience or the public of the accuracy of an opinion. It is played by rules that are different from those of logic and empirical evidence.” Debates, she once wrote, are “drive-by shootings when it comes to critical thinking.”
“For people whose views aren’t anchored to facts,” Manjoo said, “winning is simply getting attention.
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2023-07-19/donald-trump-robert-kennedy-jr-debate-gish-gallop
For an anti-intellectual group such as his follower base, they will ignore your observation on the basis of elitism, as they do all other times their fallacies are pointed out.
Can't logic them out of something they didn't logic into in the first place.
Maybe! When I do engage with my cousin on topics, I try to to sort of slow things down, so that we tackle one point at a time. I wonder if I called out in a sort of friendly, non confrontational way "hey, were getting off track and getting drawn into the Gish Gallop dude!" might change the dynamic.
I also wonder...could conversations be realigned somehow, by starting by saying something to the effect of: I'm not interested in debating who is right and who is wrong. I'm just interested in both of us getting the opportunity to fully hear each other's honest opinion.
By trade, I do customer research. When doing customer interviews, we often know what happens is that:
People will say something, but to really get down to root causes and why they said what they did, you have to be patient and ask open ended questions. This is how you uncover good insights that lie beneath the surface, which could lead the way to more productive conversations.
I also think: by showing true interest in a calm, measured way, you might be able to reap the benefits of things like the reciprocity principle (which shows basically that for the vast majority of interactions, people tend to respond in kind if you start off being friendly), and have them also listen more deeply to you.
I wish journalists would have the guts to point this out more often. I see the At Issue panel tip toe around calling PP out on his blatant lies and total lack of any policy stance other than "Trudeau bad"
It kills me that we no longer even talk about policy. How old policy functioned. What policy got us to our current situation. What is the actual goal of the policy. Is the current issue due to our initial goal being the problem or did the policy not achieve what it aimed for. Is the policy creating unintended consequences.
The focus on blame and name calling have lead us to no longer go near policy. It's been my dream for years to have news agencies do some policy coverage and take a multi part dive into the policy chains that lead to some of our current issues.
This is what I keep having to argue against. All of these bad faith arguments. I don't like Trudeau, I've never voted for him. But dammit, I want our political discourse based on factual information. And there's a certain leaning segment of the population who don't believe in facts. That frustrates the hell out of me.
It's also the main reason I will not vote CPC until they come back to sanity. I voted Conservative my entire life and then the pandemic opened my eyes to the absolute bullshit being bandied about like it's rational discourse.
Honestly, it's pretty bad. I did vote Trudeau, but I've also voted Conservative, NDP and Green. I am the definition of a swing voter, and I can be swayed.
The conservatives have done nothing to sway me, because I still can't for the life of me understand what they actually want. I've heard a thousand different reasons that Trudeau is wrong, but I have to go out of my way to find out what Conservatives would do if elected - and frankly, the way the answer is always so iffy bugs me. I will find no actual proposed policies, and instead soundbites from various interviews that conflict with each other. Put your proposed policies/plan in writing, put it on your website, and point us to it. Hating Trudeau is a waste of time and does not strengthen your argument.
In fact, that behaviour is why I have voted NDP and Green in the past. In a two-party system, bashing the other guy works. In a 5+ party system where minority governments and coalitions frequently happen, I'd rather just go for a third option than settle.
I really, really hate the current discourse on Trudeau and the Liberal Party. There ARE legit things to criticize them for but the toxic bullshit that's thrown about them in the media and elsewhere has poisoned the well. In a better world, we could criticize them for the stuff they got wrong (or did poorly or failed to tackle at all) but also praise them for the policies and programs that have been done reasonably. I'm super left so I'm hardly a Liberal Party booster, but as a rational human being, I can certainly credit the current government for the many good things they have done such as the Dental Care program, even it's not perfect.
Conservative media melted down for the new passport design and said it was the pinnacle reflection of Trudeau reign in government.
Not to mention it being subjective visual arts, I assume he didn’t design it himself, and their critiques of his “reign” (note the loaded language) were sensationalized nonsense, most of it bad faith.
>I won’t rehash the carbon tax argument, except to note that nearly everyone I speak to at the bars is receiving more back in the rebate than they pay in the tax (maybe I hang out in the wrong bars). A friend points out that the quarterly carbon tax rebate is now greater than Nova Scotia’s Poverty Reduction Credit, and so doing away with the carbon tax will throw many people into what can only be described as a poverty death spiral. And yet, as I’ve mentioned before, another friend tells me that in an old folks’ home he visits, the residents to a person condemn the carbon tax, even though they each receive the rebate cheque, and none of them drive or pay for heat.
>Beyond the carbon tax, the anti-Trudeau extremists seem simply unhinged from the real world.
It's not "his" politics. Replace him with anybody with a pulse and nothing will change without systemic change. It has nothing to do with him being incompetent or his morality. People are in for a rude awakening when they vote our Coca Cola and elect Pepsi—it's the exact same thing, and it's not good for your health.
Seems most people don't really understand how the government works, so if something goes wrong, it's clearly the fault of the guy who's face they see on the TV.
Bad faith criticism from bad faith actors who want us to think government is the source of all our problems.
It’s just a coincidence that these same people think government is always the problem, spending is always too high and taxes are always too high.
Spending is real high - a decent criticism of Trudeau budgets and spending, but they think that’s the cause of their being price gouged at the shelves… 💀
There is a LOT to hate Trudeau for, most notably his enabling of rich people.
But the type of vitriol going his way makes convincing smart people difficult and makes me want to vote for him just to spite the F Trudeau crowd (even though I have never voted Liberal before in my life and have no intention of starting)
People are going to be in shock after Poilievre is elected and gets to gutting Canada's social programs. Folks will soon be pining for the good old Trudeau years.
We should also stop treating Poilievre being PM as some kind of foregone conclusion just because of some arbitrary “time is up” idea.
I’d like to see someone else lead the Liberals now but I’ll pick Trudeau over a party that cozies up to belligerent and increasingly bold hate groups.
I’d like to see people wake tf up and move to support the only party that’s done any LEGISLATING in parliament. Besides supporting that stupid senate bill about internet ID, team orange continues to do amazing things for the country and never get a reward.
I know people who want to get dental work done ASAP because they're afraid it's not going to last.
Also the cons are going to fuck shit up and blame Trudeau. You just know.
I keep telling conservatives that the reason the left doesn’t criticize Trudeau is because almost every scandal from the right is imaginary, and it’s like the boy who cried wolf… We aren’t coming out anymore to check anymore after all the scandals about his socks and doughnuts, and carbon tax.
Trudeau Derangement Syndrome is a symptom of folks who have been taken in lock, stock and barrel by the alt-right pipeline.
The point is not to win an argument with them, the point is to beat them at the polls.
It’s so hilariously appropriate that a term coined by trump cultists is being used by Trudeaus blind faith followers. Just like Trump in America Trudeau does nothing to help us in 10 years and the common person gets angry at that. Then the Trudeau worshippers in this thread defend their liberal version of trump while he still continues to sell out and make things worse.
I genuinely want to create a website called “Trudeau or Trump” that just lists each others scandals and lets you try to guess who did what, the actual overlap of some of their scandals (including actual sexual assault) is astounding.
Trudeau isn’t the greatest, but the amount of “it’s because of Trudeau and his [insert progressive policy here] agenda!” Makes actual debate and criticism of him and the liberals useless.
Bad faith, low rent, disingenuous arguments with logic so flawed it's a chasm they leap over to the most ridiculous of conclusions. There is actual proper criticism of the man, his party and this government, but if you boil it down to just the policies, just the things he's actually responsible for, you realize quickly 98% of the things they say about him are utter bullshit. The media is only to happy to amp this bullshit promoting civic illiteracy at a time when we really need people to understand how our government works so they don't blame Trudeau for Ford trashing the place, then vote in conservative swine who will be provably far worse.
Trudeau derangement syndrome is real, and those afflicted need mental help.
Next time someone starts a sentence with:
“I’m not a fan of Justin but…”
Stop them.
Ask them “Wait so are you a fan of Pierre?”
Just do that.
Just that.
That’s enough to stop anyone in real life. Not talking this place with its bots and Russians.
Real life. Just say that. Watch their response.
Then go with it. Because they’ll fumble and stammer and actually think about their answers rather than just regurgitating Facebook and Reddit.
I’ve started doing this and it absolutely surprises me how quickly you can dismantle this CPC narrative.
Almost all of the valid reasons to hate him are attacks from the left though. Hell, even most of the conservatives' attacks against him are from the left. Criticizing him for doing anything to stop landlords and grocery monopolies from price gouging, or for having done racially insensitive things in the past... like... do they think Pollievre is going to start antitrust proceedings against Loblaws? Or raise taxes on properties that aren't primary residences? Is Pollievre going to invest in public housing to bring costs down? Can people anywhere say with a straight face they're voting for _Pierre Pollievre_ because Trudeau is too racist? It's crazy.
I thought it was all points about Trudeau, so was a bit confused when it got to point 2 talking about planting seeds. For a few seconds I figured it was just a metaphor - ok planting local seeds, got ya, that tracks - but when I got to plant diversity stewarded by local farmers and started thinking “man, this reporter is really invested deep in this metaphor” I clued in.
If the Trudeau administration's policies anger conservatives and other types of extremists and weirdos, then he and his administration are on the right path.
It’s become cool to hate on Justin. Sadly the folks joining the group are not using any critical thinking skills and just following to be part of the cool cats. Social media era of thinking
Yep. I have a visceral hatred of a certain American politician, and will expound at length about him if I am given the opportunity. HOWEVER I also have a list of LEGITIMATE grievances about that man going back to the 1980s which any reasonable person would agree condemns him beyond a shadow of a doubt. When some idiot is spouting 'fuck JT' stuff, and is questioned about it, he (always he) never has ANYTHING. Just 'I don't like him' with a strong undercurrent of *someone told me I can call him a queer and then the big boys will laugh along with me*
The greatest problem western capitalist democracies have is an unregulated media landscape. One of our greatest freedoms is also our greatest weakness. And the shitheads of the world use it against us. The Chinese, Ruzzians, Indians and some Putin-compromised Republitards are flooding the zone with shit, and those on the left side of the intelligence curve consume it without thinking. Skippy is just a meat puppet who apes the posturing and by doing so, helps foreign actors interfere in our internal affairs.
Bigger than the stupid criticism like wearing certain clothing and "ermahgerd mah gunz"? Literally anything else is a bigger and in better faith. Promising electoral reform and not delivering based on a small series of town halls for one.
There are many, many legitimate things to criticise the Trudeau government for, but it always seems like 95% of the discourse online is about lies or things that are exaggerated absurdly out of proportion.
It boggles my brain how people across the nation are so eager to blame Justin Trudeau for all the problems we're facing in this country while neglecting the fact that it is PROVINCIAL leadership that actually makes the VAST majority of the decisions that actually impact our day-to-day lives. And why does provincial leadership such so bad? Because they're conservatives who have a long history of lining their pockets, their friends pockets, stripping the citizenry of their services and cutting back so heavily on spending while allowing the working class to pick up the slack.
It's so easy that a toddler could understand it.
I'm not a huge fan of Trudeau.
sadly, he's the 'least worst' of them. at least he pretends to care about us poors, and "lets" the NDP get more for the poors.
the bullshit being spewed by the UCP and their ilk is maddening, because it's PROVABLE that it's lies, but the morons believe them anyway.
Imagine how many votes conservatives would have if they tackle actual issues like Trudeau's dropped campaign promises of electoral reform but they don't have a shred of integrity on them.
Modern politicians tend to want to appear as correct rather than being correct themselves. This really bothers me because it actually works because many people vote based on feelings rather than the actual issues at hand. It's kinda sad tbh.
Having done all the damage they needed in the States, the war on the conscience of civilized society turned North to assault one of it’s last bastions. Bad-faith is the weapon of choice, because as transparent as it is, no amount of rational contradiction will ever convince the emotionally invested.
I think Justine is just a pampered product of the VERY small Canadian elite- and when you look at his parents and where and when he was born - how could he be anything else?
But with that being said he is no evil genius- his “black face” is a perfect example of just that.
It was an attempt to be Aladdin at a costume party.
In poor taste - yes.
Proof that folks who live in a place where the reality of the real world doesn’t touch them and so they can be clueless? - exactly that.
I come from the states - my mother was from the deep south and had uncles who belonged to the KKK - that is real racism- the black face that came from that world? As ugly as it gets and had nothing to do with costume parties.
Do I wish we had someone other than Justine to vote for - yes I do.
Do I fear PP and the MAGA folks that seem to be aiding him and his ilk?
Absolutely!
We are SO much better than the crap he is selling - let us hope and pray there are more of us than there are of them.
I fear the whole world is sitting on a knife edge at the moment-
Lord have mercy!
"Any criticism of the government that has been running Canada over the last 8 years is all BAD FAITH!!!1111, Anyone who has a different opinion than me is a BOT!!!111, THEY BLAME THE CURRENT GOV FOR THE WAY THINGS ARE!!!!!, It's not the government...It's everybody elses fault!!! disgaree with me? BOT!!!"
this sub in a nutshell. You guys are actually delusional. I voted for Trudeau when he first came into power. Now I have seen the diminished quality of life firsthand over the last nearly decade. Enough is enough with this guy. There are other people. There are better ideas.
["Zionism is not a dirty word": Trudeau remarks at Holocaust remembrance event (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmVeTtlJvJQ&t=9s)
No need to make anything up.
Guys; were gonna elect a conservative government
The sky won't fall, life will go on
It doesn't mean democracy is dying or we now have fascism it just means your guy lost an election it's really not that big of a deal
Can anyone tell me what achievements he has had in 9 years? Seems like it has just been one blunder after another. Gross fiscal mismanagement. Sky rocketing debt with a flatlining economy being held up only by mass immigration. HUGE corporate subsidies for EV companies, an industry not even performing well. Where are the sunny ways can you point them out to me? Don't say this is a global issue either our neighbor next door has a red hot economy right now which usually transaltes to succcess for us as well.
The war on democracy and human rights is [global](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ai-hate-content-1.7215369). They attack him personally, but global enemies of democracy would attack any democratically elected representative with the same ceaseless flame thrower of hatred, misinformation, distortion and deflection. And they do. Defend democracy and human rights like your life depends on it.
“Like your life depends on it” - because it does.
Even if mine doesn't, other people's live do. And so I will.
That’s the self destructive problem of politics built on hate. Once the out group is destroyed, another is needed. It won’t be to long before you could be on that list.
They won’t do this to PP. just like they didn’t for trump. They want western countries to be ran by right wing nut jobs because right wing nut jobs take bribes. But to be clear. I think we are over estimating the role and effect China and Russia have. They don’t create the hysteria they just help it. The more we let people blame foreign nations the less we take responsibility for the problems we have domestically.
Post media has been doing it for years, we just don't call it meddling.
>They want western countries to be ran by right wing nut jobs because right wing nut jobs take bribes. Have we already forgotten the WE Charity scandal, or the Chinese donations to the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation?
What was the outcome of the charity scandal?
Would, and do. Any bad faith argument against a decent democratically elected individual or party that successfully convinces a progressive to not vote, is a win for the anti-democratic. I wish people would stop falling for this shit.
We don’t have this problem in Canada. Progressives vote liberal or NDP. Progressives are justified in not wanting to vote for the Democrats especially when the democrats act like republicans. Here in Canada the further right the liberal party goes the more support the NDP have. Imo, I think polls are really fishy and don’t make a lot of sense. Even if they are real. The NDP and liberals put together would still win an election over a 40% polling Conservative Party.
> the Democrats especially when the democrats act like republicans. The Democrats aren't trying to overturn elections.
No. But they aren’t really doing much to stop it either.
What?
In a proportional voting system (like the one I had in Germany), this would be pretty awesome because any percentage that the liberals lose to the NDP keeps the "not right-wing nutjobs" percentage unchanged. With FPTP, shifting even small percentages from one party to the other can seriously hurt things.
Always down for anything other than FPTP. Voting reform now!
I don’t really trust polls because they aren’t perfect, but it is clear that Poilievre has a significant lead. Unfortunately I think the vote split between the liberals and NDP will lead to a conservative government(this is why we need ranked choice ballots). I do have three predictions which could make this race closer than it seems though. First, I think people will experience fatigue from Poilivres endless barrage of garbage. He’s been actively campaigning for a year, and we are still more than a year out from the election. This isn’t america, Canadians don’t have the patience for this long of a political race. As we draw closer to the election he will need to actually start building a platform, and he will have to actually take a stance on some key issues that he basically avoids talking about because he knows it will split his voter base. Like LGBT rights and abortion rights. Currently it’s a lot of dog whistles because he doesn’t want to risk upsetting his more progressive voters by giving away his true intentions. Secondly, I think the liberals have more of a plan behind the scenes than people think. I think they realize that people can’t stand a 2.5 year campaign in Canada, so they are letting Poilievre waste his breath so people get tired of hearing his bullshit over and over again. He has a lead right now, but he’s also been campaigning pretty much un opposed. When campaign season actually starts, the gloves will come off and the opposition is not going to go easy on him because he has over his career and especially the last year said a lot of stupid things they can call him on. Lastly, I think Trudeau is postering when he says he is going to/considering running again next year. He is tired of politics(this much has been said to some extent and it also contributed to his divorce). He also knows that the campaign Poilievre has led against him has been extremely targeted and effective, and in general no prime minister wins an election past ten years. Canadians always want change after that long. But because the attacks on him have been so targeted, he is going to let it continue, he’s going to keep taking heat, and then maybe at the end of this year or the start of next year when election season is really starting to kick off, he will announce he’s stepping down as the liberal party leader and propose some kind of replacement(David Eby would be great IMO although his unpopular decriminalization policy may be used as a wedge issue that could hurt his chances). After he announces his replacement, a huge amount of the effort that the conservatives have directed almost directly at Trudeau will be wasted, and they will need to pivot to attack the new leader but will only have 9-12 months to build momentum against rather than 10+ years of targeted attacks. Sure, there will still be axe the tax and all the other rhetoric, but a huge amount of the disdain for the liberal party is more specifically disdain for Trudeau, and unengaged voters who fell for the grift and are tired of Trudeau will now see a fresh new face who hasn’t had targeted campaigns run against them for more than a decade.
>this is why we need ranked choice ballots). MMP! HATE ranked choice almost as much as FPTP. Rank choice is still voting ranking least worst to worst. >First, I think people will experience fatigue from Poilivres endless barrage of garbage. He’s been actively campaigning for a year, and we are still more than a year out from the election. This isn’t america, Canadians don’t have the patience for this long of a political race I used to think this way. But Trump made me think differently. More Canadians understand the US electoral system than the Canadian one, and more of them follow US politics it seems, that maybe Canadians do like loooonng campaigns. (I personally don't) PP Millhouse is testing the waters and we'll see how well it works. > I think the liberals have more of a plan behind the scenes than people think I agree, the Liberals biggest strength is their ability to campaign, their muzzling of their MPPs and creating a controlled message is second to none in North America. And they know how to engage during campaigns. But I not yet sure if their attack will be to stem voters who may vote Conservative, or to try and steal NDP voters with driving the ABC vote. I always enjoy the Liberals campaign machine. >, I think Trudeau is postering when he says he is going to/considering running again next year. He is tired of politics(this much has been said to some extent and it also contributed to his divorce). I'm not sure about this. It goes against most political science. You waste your incumbent advantage with a change too close to an election, you also deplete party funds by running a leadership race, and going into an election with just an interem leader is a HARD win if you are the incumbent party.
>>I'm not sure about this. It goes against most political science. You waste your incumbent advantage with a change too close to an election, you also deplete party funds by running a leadership race, and going into an election with just an interem leader is a HARD win if you are the incumbent party. This isn’t a typical race though. The opposition has run a targeted campaign against a specific leader for more than 10 years. Like obviously they dislike the party in general, but they say Trudeau every other sentence, not “the liberal party” because they’ve made this a race of idols(like in the USA). Their entire schtick is literally selling t shirts and hats and bumper stickers that say “fuck trudeau”. This is targeted on a level not yet seen, to the point where people hear, see, and associate the leadership much more with Trudeau than they do the liberal party itself. But by doing this they’ve dug themselves into a hole. The rage has been directed entirely at Trudeau for 10+ years, and if he’s gone, there is still rage but it’s not nearly as targeted or motivated. The less time the opposition has to pivot and attack the new leader the better. And they can avoid the pitfalls of running a new leader by electing someone who has had a positive national spotlight like David Eby. He’s not a new face, but he’s a new face for the liberal party. People know him and across the country pretty much any progressive likes him. He doesn’t need to start from the ground up, he just needs to say, “Look at what I’ve done, I’ve made big, positive change in BC, and when I’ve done wrong I’ve been willing to admit my mistakes and correct them because I serve the people.”
I love all these ideas but I really want to know your rational for suggesting that David Eby ( BC NDP leader ) would resign from a premiership, arguably during a BC NDP golden age to then go run at the national level for the Liberals?
It’s not exactly a likely outcome, but it could happen. If the Iiberals want to make a shift left and they want a guy with good name recognition who isn’t associated with the previous leadership they could ask him, and if Eby is ambitious he could certainly try for it. He has an election coming up in the fall which makes it a little odd, because it’s probably too late to reasonably announce he’s handing over leadership so he would need to do it after the election which isn’t the best look.
>This isn’t a typical race though I agree here. >Like obviously they dislike the party in general, but they say Trudeau every other sentence, not “the liberal party” because they’ve made this a race of idols(like in the USA). Yes they really dislike Trudeau, BUT! It was the Liberal campaign machine that turned Canadian politics into a race of idols. #TeamTrudeau was a campaign hashtag and was prominent on every Liberal lawn sign. So the Conservatives are trying to kill an obviously effective strategy, especially since they've got a terrible leader to try and build and idol style campaign around. TeamPP would be destroyed in memes. >But by doing this they’ve dug themselves into a hole. The rage has been directed entirely at Trudeau for 10+ years, and if he’s gone, there is still rage but it’s not nearly as targeted or motivated. The less time the opposition has to pivot and attack the new leader the better. Agreed, but at the same time the Liberals have done a terrible job at putting MP's in the spotlight to get name recognition because the Liberals and the PMO have also built the party around a select few, I think people would be hard pressed to name more than 5 Federal Liberals if they were undecided swing voters. The Liberals haven't cultivated a leader in waiting, for. While it seemed like Freeland would be that leader, but she's been killing her own brand for the last year or so and I don't think she'll win over NDP or swing support, she'll stop GTA bleeding at best. >And they can avoid the pitfalls of running a new leader by electing someone who has had a positive national spotlight like David Eby Has David indicated he wants to make the jump to Federal politics? And that he is interested in a Liberal seat? I haven't followed him much beyond my respect for how he is addressing housing. More so as a See DoFo a Primeir CAN do real changes. I don't know if David could really grab the east coast swing voter, but again he hasn't been really on my radar beyond housing. Would be VERY interesting strategy for the Liberals if they did try this move and how the Conservatives would spin the move. Would they shift to a "even the rats are fleeing a sinking ship" or would they then refocus on a new leader and try and tarnish him, it failed miserably when they ran the "he's just not ready" messaging in 2015. Did they learn from that (50/50 they didn't since they're pretty thick headed)
Hate ranked ballots? You’ve really been influenced by the NDP’s ridiculous stance on this. It’s FAR better than FPTP - hope you don’t complain about strategic voting. The NDP has polled as most popular second choice since before 2019, their hysteria over the Liberals having the most to gain from it is laughable at this point. They have everything to gain from ranked choice and nothing to lose. And while I support MMP theoretically, putting it into practice in a country that is allergic to coalitions at the federal level, and when the extreme rightwing CPC has been winning the popular vote and standa to win it by far more in the next election, the reaction to the CPC being shut out of government by a formal coalition between the NDP and Liberals would be explosive.
>Hate ranked ballots? Yes. Ranked ballots in an age of social media doesn't stop the election being primarily focused on the party leader. Ranked ballots does nothing to encourage better local representation and more parties to choose from. It is just a slight shifted FPTP system. And it's now we got Doug Ford in Ontario. >And while I support MMP theoretically, putting it into practice in a country that is allergic to coalitions at the federal level With only real 3 parties to choose from and the reality is 2 of them could never work together, of course coalitions aren't cultivated. Ranked ballots does nothing to cultivate coalitions or cross isle support. It creates a status quo government. Which leads to complacency and expectations of winning by those who benefit most.
Eh. Eby can spin the decriminalization debacle into "Hey, at least we tried something, and we course-corrected when it didn't work."
I agree totally. And his housing policy has been amazing so I’m hoping that people can start to feel the impact by election time although a year away is a little soon to really have an impact. As a side, the whole drug thing is dumb as hell anyways. Alberta is also having more record deaths, and their per capita rate is practically the same. I understand he was basically forced to undo the change for political reasons but it’s shitty that it was framed as detrimental to the drug crisis when really it seems to have had little impact either way compared to other provinces.
I get ya. But Trudeau isn’t being particularly coy about his intention to run. If he was planning to bow out before the election he would of said something like “we will see” or “I have yet to make that determination” or “I’m focused on leading at the moment” Instead of any of those, he keeps insisting he’s running again, because he “has to”. I’m hopeful you are right about the “secret” agenda. The liberals need to energize voters and so far liberal policies have been more of the same neoliberal agenda that I feel the public has largely fallen out of love with. Subsidies for wealthy corporations and stable budgets over much needed investments.
Eh. I agree liberal policy isn’t great and I wish we had ranked choice voting so that the NDP had a real shot. They have done some good things though and I think they will harp on those things(covid response and recovery, they are starting to curb inflation and our economy hasn’t totally collapsed in the process, the child care benefit is great). I also think/ hope they will be more aggressive on some issues like housing/groceries, although it’s likely too little too late at this point. I do sincerely think Trudeau will step down or be forced to though, and it’s sort of an open secret that he is feeling fatigued with life as a prime minister. It’s still the most likely outcome that the conservatives win the next election but I hope to god we don’t have to endure 4 years of him undoing what little progress we’ve made in the last tens years with idiots cheering on his regressive policy. The other potential deal with the devil is the liberals and NDP forming a coalition which I think would actually keep Poilievre out of office, but would also sort of hamstring the NDPs progress and make them settle into more neoliberal bullshit. Idk if I prefer the NDP shifting further right in a coalition or the whole country dealing with 4 years of regressive policy.
The NDP is extremely opposed to ranked ballots, if they weren’t, we could have had it for the last two elections. They want PR, specifically MMP, or FPTP. Nathan Cullen warned Trudeau that if he pushed through ranked ballots with his majority, that it would be like setting off nuclear war in Canadian politics. Singh and Trudeau discussed electoral reform when they made the C & S agreement, and neither would budge. I am equally pisses with Trudeau and the NDP on this issue, the NDP was foolish, since they have been polling as most popular second choice since before 2019, and if we were going to adopt PR it should have been done before the extreme rightwing grew in support and became so enraged, it might have been manageable before 2019, but if we switched to PR at this point, and the CPC was kept out of government after winning the popular vote by a lot (if that happened), the level of rage could become violence quite easily.
I think Trudeau is falling for a classical Liberal pitfall. He won't give someone else the reins when his personal numbers dip to help the party's numbers stay up. Normally when a Liberal government falls, it's more of a referendum against the leader than against the party policy.
David Eby is needed as premier of British Columbia. Plus, honestly, he’s more New Democrat than he is Liberal considering his career background.
Thanks I didn’t realize the guy I was recommending was a premier, I thought he just had a cool name. It’s obviously not the most likely scenario but it’s not out of the question for a premier to step up to federal politics. He’s certainly more progressive than the liberals but the provincial NDP isn’t associated with the federal NDP, he is well liked and has a great track record, and if the liberals decide they need to pivot and become slightly more progressive, he would be a great option to shift their image and give confidence to voters. I’m most likely voting NDP but if Eby ran for the liberals that would probably change.
I mean, he does have a cool name. (He is also impressively tall.) I bring up the New Democrat point because even Rachel Notley, whose admin was considered to be quite right-wing by NDP standards, considers herself as one. Ultimately there are a lot of factors that play into this. There is precedent for provincial NDPers to become federal Liberals (see Bob Rae of Ontario and Ujjal Dosanjh of B.C.), but both were pretty unpopular premiers for various reasons. Rae came into a government with wrecked finances needing him to come up with drastic measures to fix things, and Dosanjh inherited the premiership after scandals pushed out the last premier, and led the party to one of the worst political defeats in Commonwealth history. I would’ve considered Nate Erskine-Smith to potentially be a provincial politician to jump to the federal Liberals in a prominent role (he ran for Ontario Liberal leader last year and came in second with a platform that could’ve stolen NDP votes), but he’s already said that he isn’t running. Notley would also be nice to see, but she probably won’t be jumping to federal politics and her position on pipelines might turn some people off. Plus, she doesn’t like Trudeau, and as mentioned before, she considers herself a New Democrat.
Never been asked to poll and I don't think I ever will be if they keep tryina call millennials
50 years ago if you wanted to influence public opinion in enemy territory with propaganda then you needed a lot of resources. Nowadays propaganda is published online with ease and is consumed by everyone, everywhere, all of the time, for free.
Tbh I don’t like the guy… but there is enough about him to dislike to not need to make bad faith arguments. If you want to criticize the guy, stick to the truth. There’s already enough of that to go around without making democracy toxic. But it all coming from PP and co because they know they can’t win arguments, they have to make shit up and use bad faith for rage farming in order to even have a chance… considering they donc have a program. You can’t win on ideas if you don’t have ideas.
Yes, but also... Is defensing Trudeau the same as defending democracy? This is the same guy that promised electoral reform 8 years ago, then ditched the promise that united people for his cause. It's also the same guy who supports the terrorist state of Isreal. He is not exactly a stalwart of democracy. Nor is Canada's federal election a very good democratic institution. Just look at the decline of public housing funding. Things have persistently gotten worst at the federal level for many many decades. Don't get me wrong, im literally on the streets defending free speech against thr fascists. Im trans, i have to in order to even survive, but im defending my comrades... Not genocide Justin.
I’m no fan of Justin Trudeau but it’s absolutely true. The far right compulsion to make it about him as a person instead of his shitty neoliberal politics is just drowning everything else out.
Can't even have a fucking conversation about it with them. "I struggle to reconcile Trudeau's stated feminism with his party's continued support of Canadian-Saudi arms contracts" "YEAH AND TURDEAU DID BLACKFACE"
Guys at my work will literally compare him to Hitler but won't take the extra steps to explain why. I'm literally the lone person on my shift who doesn't unreasonably hate Trudeau. I don't like the guy, but he's not Hitler. I just hate when they start 'talking politics'.
Ask them why they love PP. Ask them if they think he’s more like them and why. I love those responses. They can’t. They immediately feel uncomfortable.
Next you're going to ask them why they think their brown skinned Canadian neighbor should go home or why they liked their neighborhood in the past when it was only white people in it. 🙄 Im seriously leaning towards the theory that an entire generation was brain damaged from lead poisoning.
I wish it was just one generation, but the hate I've heard from middle-aged and young adult mouths knows no age-limit.
Young men have been going down the alt-right path for quite some time, due to the left’s failure to appeal to them. As a result that demographic skews towards PP and the Cons.
Last time politics came up at work, that's how I swung it, *"Trudeau sucks, but Polivere? Man, who'd vote for him? He comes off as weaselly and annoying, crying on Tiktok about his plane being delayed and blaming it on Trudeau, as if the PM controls the weather, all he ever does is whine, no solutions, he's a career politician too, never had a real job, always a cushy seat in parliament"* not the exact words, but the points I hit on. Sure it's not criticizing policy, but it appeals to emotions, *and* it's not like I'm doing it to sneakily win approval - I genuinely think that Pierre Poilievre is an obnoxious weenie who hasn't held down any job outside of politics, he was a bench warmer in Parliament and that he has mega- "How do you do, fellow kids" energy, I just don't like him.
They support screechy PP, who's much closer to Hitler, with his idea of declaring his wishes constitutional ...
*Some* people got real quiet about Trudeau not being "working class" and "out of touch" when the last two Conservative leaders have both had zero real work experience out side of politics. Pierre Poilievre has so many skeletons in his closet (Pierre's behaviour during Ottawa's occupation, Pierre downplaying the seriousness of the atrocities in Ukraine, repeatedly voting against support for them and dismissing Ukraine as a "far away foreign land.” The way he blatantly misconstrues municipal,provincial and federal issues, his underage birth mother, his parents leaving Quebec suspiciously around the collapse of the FLQ, his adopted father being a closeted homosexual, his wife's sketchy father, Pierre's lack of security clearance, his voting record under Harper, that Pierre was groomed as a child for politics by Jason Kenney and then had a close relationship with John Baird in Ottawa, his filibustering antics in Parliament by his party while he went to a fundraising dinner, his hostility to the media, and of course his unhealthy obsession with Justin Trudeau) that he really shouldn't be throwing any stones.
They aren’t talking politics they are talking social media cultism
Tradesperson? I feel your pain. There are plenty of legitimate gripes with Trudeau. “Turning Canada cOmMuNiSt!!!” is not one of them, please just shut the fuck up Greg, we already know you aren’t a well adjusted adult and don’t know where to place your anger other than where the cons tell you to.
the more people irrationally hate him, the more it feels like the hatred of him IS irrational and in turn, the more my appreciation of him grows. because if it angers such morons...
This is kind of it for me as well. It’s getting so ridiculous I hate him less because the haters are so much worse.
Its just programming that's the full explanation for anything the right wing is doing But fwiw i dated a psycho and she hated trudeau because she thought he fucked babies and covers up a secret child porn industry that makes up the majority of the canadian economy. For like 50% of people youre being way too generous by assuming they have reason or sensibility to justify what they believe or feel.
They don't have a problem with blackface being racist. The problem is they think that men who wear makeup are gay.
That’s the problem isn’t it. The conservatives are just as neoliberal if not worse. Can’t really criticize policies they will probably do the same on.
Yep! This is part of why they hammer on so hard about the Blackface costumes but never actually talk about the systemic racism occurring under his government. A lot of those policies started before he took office, either originating under Conservative governments, or being continued by them. They don't want to pressure him into ending policies they like. It also means people often can't have meaningful discussions about those policies because the second you say "Trudeau" and "Racism" either you are immediately dismissed as buying into bad faith right wing attacks, or a conservative butts in to suck all the oxygen out of the room, shouting those bad faith right wing attacks. Similarly, you can't criticize PP's history of racism and genocide denial in Parliament because again, a conservative will show up and start screaming "Blackface" until everyone leaves.
Trudeau.. neoliberal!? I think I'm missing something.
Probably a primer on neoliberalism.
The struggle of being like "I'm disappointed in Justin Trudeau in a leftist way, I don't hate him in a FUCK TRUDEAU bumper sticker on my f250 kind of way" is so real
I've seen them blame him for the weather. Personally blame him for literally everything regardless if it's a local problem or not. It's weird and pathetic. People die in a car crash and he's blamed too. The really stupid online anti trudeau discourse is identical to what I'd hear in mental health wards. Trudeau stole my juice, I'll execute him and the nursing staff.
Not to be juvenile, but remember PP wears a bra. Saggy man tits
I remember I once heard an older lady walk into a store and had a kinda smarmy tone of voice saying "Wow, look at this! Trudeau wants to get rid of our electricity and replace it with windmills" or something like that. Like the man wants private industry to make a lot of profit, what the fuck are you talking about lol.
It's seriously wild to me. You'd think that with so much conservative media and organisations like the IDU trying to sour people on Trudeau, they'd at the very least be pushing valid criticisms. Instead we get "Castro's bastard child," blackface, WEF conspiracy theories, "drama teacher," occasionally uses filler words like "uhh" when giving unrehearsed speeches, wants to force everyone to eat insects... it's wild.
They throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. It has nothing to do with valid, good faith, empirical reasoning.
its relentless and exhausting. It also prevents real criticism and discussion of his policies, instead youre left playing whackamole with blatant liars. Second place is people saying "Jagmeet wears expensive suits and therefore bad" etc
Recently I've been seeing stickers at work of Trudeau dressed as a clown with the text "I did that" but the stickers aren't placed in spots that even mean anything What did he do? Ventilate the building? Blow cold air? Be a table? I don't get it
> but the stickers aren't placed in spots that even mean anything I once saw an "I DID THAT!" sticker where Trudeau was crouching and pointing on a gas pump. Except he was pointing away from the price.
/r/thanksobama would like a word.
>left playing whackamole with blatant liars. This Gish Gallop is I think one of the most dangerous things Trump has brought into the mainstream. "Donald Trump is probably unaware that he’s an avid practitioner of a debating method known among philosophers and rhetoricians as the Gish Gallop. Its aim is simple: to defeat one’s opponent by burying them in a torrent of incorrect, or idiotic arguments." https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/02/donald-trump-debate-strategy-gish-gallop/673061/ I think the thing you have to do, is just not play the game anymore. I have a cousin who uses this technique increasingly, and I've just sorta stopped engaging. On the subject of whether one should bother debating these types of people: "In any case, the notion that serious political arguments can be solved, or conspiracy theories aimed at undermining scientific reality debunked, in the course of 60- or 90-minute encounters between opponents is ludicrous. “Debate is a sport,” Scott said. “It is not a way of informing the audience or the public of the accuracy of an opinion. It is played by rules that are different from those of logic and empirical evidence.” Debates, she once wrote, are “drive-by shootings when it comes to critical thinking.” “For people whose views aren’t anchored to facts,” Manjoo said, “winning is simply getting attention. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2023-07-19/donald-trump-robert-kennedy-jr-debate-gish-gallop
What if we just pointed out it's Gish Gallop, then ignored it? Sorta like how ppl point out something is a fallacy then ignore it.
For an anti-intellectual group such as his follower base, they will ignore your observation on the basis of elitism, as they do all other times their fallacies are pointed out. Can't logic them out of something they didn't logic into in the first place.
Maybe! When I do engage with my cousin on topics, I try to to sort of slow things down, so that we tackle one point at a time. I wonder if I called out in a sort of friendly, non confrontational way "hey, were getting off track and getting drawn into the Gish Gallop dude!" might change the dynamic. I also wonder...could conversations be realigned somehow, by starting by saying something to the effect of: I'm not interested in debating who is right and who is wrong. I'm just interested in both of us getting the opportunity to fully hear each other's honest opinion. By trade, I do customer research. When doing customer interviews, we often know what happens is that: People will say something, but to really get down to root causes and why they said what they did, you have to be patient and ask open ended questions. This is how you uncover good insights that lie beneath the surface, which could lead the way to more productive conversations. I also think: by showing true interest in a calm, measured way, you might be able to reap the benefits of things like the reciprocity principle (which shows basically that for the vast majority of interactions, people tend to respond in kind if you start off being friendly), and have them also listen more deeply to you.
I wish journalists would have the guts to point this out more often. I see the At Issue panel tip toe around calling PP out on his blatant lies and total lack of any policy stance other than "Trudeau bad"
It kills me that we no longer even talk about policy. How old policy functioned. What policy got us to our current situation. What is the actual goal of the policy. Is the current issue due to our initial goal being the problem or did the policy not achieve what it aimed for. Is the policy creating unintended consequences. The focus on blame and name calling have lead us to no longer go near policy. It's been my dream for years to have news agencies do some policy coverage and take a multi part dive into the policy chains that lead to some of our current issues.
This is what I keep having to argue against. All of these bad faith arguments. I don't like Trudeau, I've never voted for him. But dammit, I want our political discourse based on factual information. And there's a certain leaning segment of the population who don't believe in facts. That frustrates the hell out of me. It's also the main reason I will not vote CPC until they come back to sanity. I voted Conservative my entire life and then the pandemic opened my eyes to the absolute bullshit being bandied about like it's rational discourse.
Honestly, it's pretty bad. I did vote Trudeau, but I've also voted Conservative, NDP and Green. I am the definition of a swing voter, and I can be swayed. The conservatives have done nothing to sway me, because I still can't for the life of me understand what they actually want. I've heard a thousand different reasons that Trudeau is wrong, but I have to go out of my way to find out what Conservatives would do if elected - and frankly, the way the answer is always so iffy bugs me. I will find no actual proposed policies, and instead soundbites from various interviews that conflict with each other. Put your proposed policies/plan in writing, put it on your website, and point us to it. Hating Trudeau is a waste of time and does not strengthen your argument. In fact, that behaviour is why I have voted NDP and Green in the past. In a two-party system, bashing the other guy works. In a 5+ party system where minority governments and coalitions frequently happen, I'd rather just go for a third option than settle.
He turned me into a newt
A *newt* !?
He got better.
Nope still a newt but I can type
Very small rocks
I really, really hate the current discourse on Trudeau and the Liberal Party. There ARE legit things to criticize them for but the toxic bullshit that's thrown about them in the media and elsewhere has poisoned the well. In a better world, we could criticize them for the stuff they got wrong (or did poorly or failed to tackle at all) but also praise them for the policies and programs that have been done reasonably. I'm super left so I'm hardly a Liberal Party booster, but as a rational human being, I can certainly credit the current government for the many good things they have done such as the Dental Care program, even it's not perfect.
I bet he even enjoys arugula! It's all very Obama-like.
Conservative media melted down for the new passport design and said it was the pinnacle reflection of Trudeau reign in government. Not to mention it being subjective visual arts, I assume he didn’t design it himself, and their critiques of his “reign” (note the loaded language) were sensationalized nonsense, most of it bad faith.
>I won’t rehash the carbon tax argument, except to note that nearly everyone I speak to at the bars is receiving more back in the rebate than they pay in the tax (maybe I hang out in the wrong bars). A friend points out that the quarterly carbon tax rebate is now greater than Nova Scotia’s Poverty Reduction Credit, and so doing away with the carbon tax will throw many people into what can only be described as a poverty death spiral. And yet, as I’ve mentioned before, another friend tells me that in an old folks’ home he visits, the residents to a person condemn the carbon tax, even though they each receive the rebate cheque, and none of them drive or pay for heat. >Beyond the carbon tax, the anti-Trudeau extremists seem simply unhinged from the real world.
I'm gonna laugh my ass off if he gets booted and these asshole end up homeless.
you need to want good things to happen to your country (unless you are actively preparing for civil war)
Conservatives blaming the consequences of decades of austerity, neoliberalism, and late stage capitalism on a single guy.
Trudeau has been in charge of your country for almost ten years surely if his politics works Canada should be thriving right? Right?
It's not "his" politics. Replace him with anybody with a pulse and nothing will change without systemic change. It has nothing to do with him being incompetent or his morality. People are in for a rude awakening when they vote our Coca Cola and elect Pepsi—it's the exact same thing, and it's not good for your health.
Seems most people don't really understand how the government works, so if something goes wrong, it's clearly the fault of the guy who's face they see on the TV.
Bad faith criticism from bad faith actors who want us to think government is the source of all our problems. It’s just a coincidence that these same people think government is always the problem, spending is always too high and taxes are always too high.
Spending is real high - a decent criticism of Trudeau budgets and spending, but they think that’s the cause of their being price gouged at the shelves… 💀
There is a LOT to hate Trudeau for, most notably his enabling of rich people. But the type of vitriol going his way makes convincing smart people difficult and makes me want to vote for him just to spite the F Trudeau crowd (even though I have never voted Liberal before in my life and have no intention of starting)
People are going to be in shock after Poilievre is elected and gets to gutting Canada's social programs. Folks will soon be pining for the good old Trudeau years.
We should also stop treating Poilievre being PM as some kind of foregone conclusion just because of some arbitrary “time is up” idea. I’d like to see someone else lead the Liberals now but I’ll pick Trudeau over a party that cozies up to belligerent and increasingly bold hate groups.
I’d like to see people wake tf up and move to support the only party that’s done any LEGISLATING in parliament. Besides supporting that stupid senate bill about internet ID, team orange continues to do amazing things for the country and never get a reward.
That's what you get when you agree to be someone else's lapdog.
I know people who want to get dental work done ASAP because they're afraid it's not going to last. Also the cons are going to fuck shit up and blame Trudeau. You just know.
Five years ago called. They wonder where the fuck you’ve been.
I keep telling conservatives that the reason the left doesn’t criticize Trudeau is because almost every scandal from the right is imaginary, and it’s like the boy who cried wolf… We aren’t coming out anymore to check anymore after all the scandals about his socks and doughnuts, and carbon tax.
Trudeau Derangement Syndrome is a symptom of folks who have been taken in lock, stock and barrel by the alt-right pipeline. The point is not to win an argument with them, the point is to beat them at the polls.
It’s so hilariously appropriate that a term coined by trump cultists is being used by Trudeaus blind faith followers. Just like Trump in America Trudeau does nothing to help us in 10 years and the common person gets angry at that. Then the Trudeau worshippers in this thread defend their liberal version of trump while he still continues to sell out and make things worse. I genuinely want to create a website called “Trudeau or Trump” that just lists each others scandals and lets you try to guess who did what, the actual overlap of some of their scandals (including actual sexual assault) is astounding.
Trudeau isn’t the greatest, but the amount of “it’s because of Trudeau and his [insert progressive policy here] agenda!” Makes actual debate and criticism of him and the liberals useless.
Bad faith, low rent, disingenuous arguments with logic so flawed it's a chasm they leap over to the most ridiculous of conclusions. There is actual proper criticism of the man, his party and this government, but if you boil it down to just the policies, just the things he's actually responsible for, you realize quickly 98% of the things they say about him are utter bullshit. The media is only to happy to amp this bullshit promoting civic illiteracy at a time when we really need people to understand how our government works so they don't blame Trudeau for Ford trashing the place, then vote in conservative swine who will be provably far worse. Trudeau derangement syndrome is real, and those afflicted need mental help.
Next time someone starts a sentence with: “I’m not a fan of Justin but…” Stop them. Ask them “Wait so are you a fan of Pierre?” Just do that. Just that. That’s enough to stop anyone in real life. Not talking this place with its bots and Russians. Real life. Just say that. Watch their response. Then go with it. Because they’ll fumble and stammer and actually think about their answers rather than just regurgitating Facebook and Reddit. I’ve started doing this and it absolutely surprises me how quickly you can dismantle this CPC narrative.
Says me for the last 5 years.
Worked on Wynne.
There are tons of valid reasons to hate Trudeau. There's no need to make shit up
>There's no need to make shit up Conservatives would cease to exist if they couldn't make shit up
There is a need if your policies are mostly exactly the same.
Almost all of the valid reasons to hate him are attacks from the left though. Hell, even most of the conservatives' attacks against him are from the left. Criticizing him for doing anything to stop landlords and grocery monopolies from price gouging, or for having done racially insensitive things in the past... like... do they think Pollievre is going to start antitrust proceedings against Loblaws? Or raise taxes on properties that aren't primary residences? Is Pollievre going to invest in public housing to bring costs down? Can people anywhere say with a straight face they're voting for _Pierre Pollievre_ because Trudeau is too racist? It's crazy.
I thought it was all points about Trudeau, so was a bit confused when it got to point 2 talking about planting seeds. For a few seconds I figured it was just a metaphor - ok planting local seeds, got ya, that tracks - but when I got to plant diversity stewarded by local farmers and started thinking “man, this reporter is really invested deep in this metaphor” I clued in.
If the Trudeau administration's policies anger conservatives and other types of extremists and weirdos, then he and his administration are on the right path.
It’s become cool to hate on Justin. Sadly the folks joining the group are not using any critical thinking skills and just following to be part of the cool cats. Social media era of thinking
Yep. I have a visceral hatred of a certain American politician, and will expound at length about him if I am given the opportunity. HOWEVER I also have a list of LEGITIMATE grievances about that man going back to the 1980s which any reasonable person would agree condemns him beyond a shadow of a doubt. When some idiot is spouting 'fuck JT' stuff, and is questioned about it, he (always he) never has ANYTHING. Just 'I don't like him' with a strong undercurrent of *someone told me I can call him a queer and then the big boys will laugh along with me*
The greatest problem western capitalist democracies have is an unregulated media landscape. One of our greatest freedoms is also our greatest weakness. And the shitheads of the world use it against us. The Chinese, Ruzzians, Indians and some Putin-compromised Republitards are flooding the zone with shit, and those on the left side of the intelligence curve consume it without thinking. Skippy is just a meat puppet who apes the posturing and by doing so, helps foreign actors interfere in our internal affairs.
What I don't get is all the bad faith criticism when there is so much real criticism that could be sent his way.
What are your biggest criticisms?
Bigger than the stupid criticism like wearing certain clothing and "ermahgerd mah gunz"? Literally anything else is a bigger and in better faith. Promising electoral reform and not delivering based on a small series of town halls for one.
There are many, many legitimate things to criticise the Trudeau government for, but it always seems like 95% of the discourse online is about lies or things that are exaggerated absurdly out of proportion.
It boggles my brain how people across the nation are so eager to blame Justin Trudeau for all the problems we're facing in this country while neglecting the fact that it is PROVINCIAL leadership that actually makes the VAST majority of the decisions that actually impact our day-to-day lives. And why does provincial leadership such so bad? Because they're conservatives who have a long history of lining their pockets, their friends pockets, stripping the citizenry of their services and cutting back so heavily on spending while allowing the working class to pick up the slack. It's so easy that a toddler could understand it.
Bad faith is all the extreme right has.
No shit Sherlock
I'm not a huge fan of Trudeau. sadly, he's the 'least worst' of them. at least he pretends to care about us poors, and "lets" the NDP get more for the poors. the bullshit being spewed by the UCP and their ilk is maddening, because it's PROVABLE that it's lies, but the morons believe them anyway.
Imagine how many votes conservatives would have if they tackle actual issues like Trudeau's dropped campaign promises of electoral reform but they don't have a shred of integrity on them. Modern politicians tend to want to appear as correct rather than being correct themselves. This really bothers me because it actually works because many people vote based on feelings rather than the actual issues at hand. It's kinda sad tbh.
Right out of Russia's playbook.
Yep. CONservatives in Canada are ready and willing to do Putin's work.
Trudeau needs to go sooner rather than later if there is any chance to defeat Skippy and the wackadoodle Cons . There I said it.
But he failed to follow through on his own campaign promises. I wish he had. But he didn't. It is he who acted in bad faith.
Having done all the damage they needed in the States, the war on the conscience of civilized society turned North to assault one of it’s last bastions. Bad-faith is the weapon of choice, because as transparent as it is, no amount of rational contradiction will ever convince the emotionally invested.
I think Justine is just a pampered product of the VERY small Canadian elite- and when you look at his parents and where and when he was born - how could he be anything else? But with that being said he is no evil genius- his “black face” is a perfect example of just that. It was an attempt to be Aladdin at a costume party. In poor taste - yes. Proof that folks who live in a place where the reality of the real world doesn’t touch them and so they can be clueless? - exactly that. I come from the states - my mother was from the deep south and had uncles who belonged to the KKK - that is real racism- the black face that came from that world? As ugly as it gets and had nothing to do with costume parties. Do I wish we had someone other than Justine to vote for - yes I do. Do I fear PP and the MAGA folks that seem to be aiding him and his ilk? Absolutely! We are SO much better than the crap he is selling - let us hope and pray there are more of us than there are of them. I fear the whole world is sitting on a knife edge at the moment- Lord have mercy!
"Any criticism of the government that has been running Canada over the last 8 years is all BAD FAITH!!!1111, Anyone who has a different opinion than me is a BOT!!!111, THEY BLAME THE CURRENT GOV FOR THE WAY THINGS ARE!!!!!, It's not the government...It's everybody elses fault!!! disgaree with me? BOT!!!" this sub in a nutshell. You guys are actually delusional. I voted for Trudeau when he first came into power. Now I have seen the diminished quality of life firsthand over the last nearly decade. Enough is enough with this guy. There are other people. There are better ideas.
What specific policies has his govt implemented that you oppose? Would one of the other major parties be an improvement?
["Zionism is not a dirty word": Trudeau remarks at Holocaust remembrance event (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmVeTtlJvJQ&t=9s) No need to make anything up.
Guys; were gonna elect a conservative government The sky won't fall, life will go on It doesn't mean democracy is dying or we now have fascism it just means your guy lost an election it's really not that big of a deal
Politicians can't help but get on a hubris wagon. Nature is wild. Should have done electoral reform, as platformed. They'll do anything but.
Can anyone tell me what achievements he has had in 9 years? Seems like it has just been one blunder after another. Gross fiscal mismanagement. Sky rocketing debt with a flatlining economy being held up only by mass immigration. HUGE corporate subsidies for EV companies, an industry not even performing well. Where are the sunny ways can you point them out to me? Don't say this is a global issue either our neighbor next door has a red hot economy right now which usually transaltes to succcess for us as well.
Trump is going to move over there and run and he'll win.
Like most fascists in America, he doesn't even know where Canada is.
Easy to overlook, tucked away down there.
Canada is not for weak-minded Whites anymore. Here in Oshawa, they cry in tents.
Oh, we stupidly allow the 99.9% of the things he did to harm Canadians to overshadow the 0.1% he did right! /s