Its moreso to do with the fact that most EU countries will not even let you get a license unless you have formally attended an accredited driving education program.
These drivers ed companies are also more tightly controlled, ensuring that companies arent just passing people to make $ by holding them partly responsible if the new driver makes repeated bad decisions.
Canada? Theres people who actively seek out the least demanding drive test centres, sometimes HOURS away from their locality, because why would they?
Well their cities are a lot older lol so cars had to be built AROUND and for European cities. Over here, we build our cities for cars, trucks, and “monster death machines”.
The 400s should be 120kmh. They were designed for the speed and it's why people feel "comfortable" driving at that speed.
That being said, raise the 400 series limits but then ENFORCE the new limit.
Otherwise it's a pointless exercise.
> raise the 400 series limits but then ENFORCE the new limit.
They have been doing this regularly in Ottawa. The 110km/h reduces to 100km/h once the highway transitions from a rural to a more suburban zone. Cops are regularly just sitting past the speed change signage.
From Kingston to Cornwall on the 401 you can see DAILY the majority of drivers going 140+.
You will see on average one a day doing 170 lol
There has been close to 0 enforcement for over a year now. When there are cops out they don’t even pull people over going 130 so now everyone is emboldened
I cant decide which type of driver I hate to see more, the one's that blow past you while you're going 120 or the ones that weave in and out of traffic treating the highway cars like an obstacle course
I’ve done 140 past a cop like 3 times already and I’m still going strong with no tickets. To be fair the entire lane was moving that speed so I guess that’s why he did nothing.
My neighbor travels to Quebec and back very frequently and always has been for like 5 years.
He said he's always done the same, it's just long stretch driving.
He finally got pulled over just a week or two ago and got hit with a fine and demerit points.
When it happens it happens it's luck of the draw it feels, not so much enforcement.
lol I would take that to court just to be as big of a pain in the ass as possible for that cop. I doubt the cop wouldn’t even show up to explain why he thought he had nothing better to do than ticket someone for 5 over wtf?
> I doubt the cop wouldn’t even show up
2 problems with this, cops get "court days" in their scheduled shifts now...AND, the cop doesnt need to be there, the prosecutor will get the officer's notes and the trial will proceed.
What kind of heavenly commute are you experiencing?
Would you prefer to see a 38 minute drive increased to a 77 minute drive because people park in the left lane going 90 and brake way too much?
I drive 120 all day everyday on the 417. I’ll maintain that speed going by a cop. The 100 limit is definitely not strictly enforced.
Cops should be pulling over cars driving dangerously, not just a blanket speed enforcement. Weaving through at 120 when everyone else is doing 95 is dangerous. 130 when traffic is 120 is fine.
I agree. Don't know what they're talking about but I've never seen a speed trap on the 417 in the three years I've lived here. Ottawa is naturally the slowest city I've ever lived in, people regularly get on the highway going 60km/h, so I understand why enforcement is uncommon.
I've definitely seen OPP policing the 417. There's at least one good spot in Kanata, east of Eagleson exit, and I've occasionally seen some on one of the on ramps toward the west end, maybe Maitland?
Same here. You get OPP traps on 416 just south of city a fair bit but again, average speed there in 120ish and never seen many being pulled over. The 417 is often crazy slow even when wide open. It’s so much showe than 416 and 401 that I rarely go over 115 on it for fear I’d get pulled as that’s going a fair bit faster than traffic overall.
There's pretty regularly (multiple weekdays in the afternoon) a speed trap just west of the 416, right in the middle between the eastbound lanes and the northbound 416 to westbound 417 ramp.
They're looking for **egregious** speeders, though; I've driven through that speed trap well over 100 times in the past 15 years on cruise control at 120km/h without any issues.
The only place i have ever seen speed limit strictly enforced, is 401 near Napanee.
That particular OPP detachment seems to regularly pull ppl over for anything beyond 10 over.
They're not always there- but when they are, they seem to always have someone pulled over.
Years ago driving in that area I remember a white BMW that blew past me, was doing easily 160. Ten minutes later I saw that same car on the side of the 401 with an OPP cruiser.
Imagine if drivers were competent and courteous and attentive and cooperated to not even need a speed limit on 400 series? Though that would only work outside of peak volume times
Meanwhile over in r/Hamilton "everyone drives 140kmh" .. I personally don't. 110-115 is my preference and I'm the one getting downvoted.
Edit: Look they followed me. 😆😂
I have no issues with people going 110-115 or even 100. But you better not be on the left lane. The amount of time I see people doing this then get aggressively brake-checked, is insane. Once they looked at me for validation and I gave them the middle finger myself before aggressively merging onto their lane. They moved to the right afterwards, so I guess they learned their lesson. 😂😂
It’d be so easy to set up a bunch of cameras along the route and automate it, like they do with municipal ones. Set them to 140 km/h or something and really show that people can’t just do whatever they want
I'm curious to see if it does affect anything..... I already see ppl going 140-150 pretty regularly. If we up it will they keep what they're doing or go even faster? Also I know it's not the SPEED, it's the driver
So we officially stopped giving a shit about the environment or the price of gas.
20% more speed uses >20% more fuel (air drag is not linear), and 20% more engine wear. But this is a province with a Premiere who actually said that more highways are greener because you get home sooner.
No. It's about your RPM and distance traveled. Says your engine can maintain 100kmh at 1.2kRPM = $1.2/km. Or your engine can maintain 140 at 2.1kRPM = $2.1/km these are simplified numbers
I mean my car uses twice as much gas on short journeys than long so not sure I really buy this argument. Cars are super efficient at speed, whether it's 100 or 130.
Cars are less efficient over short distances because they often involve slowing down and speeding up which wastes gas. Cruising without slowing down is more efficient. However after above 80 or 90, your fuel efficiency drops because wind resistance increases exponentially.
Do you have data to back this up? Because I see what my car does after every journey, and on highway drives I see very little difference if I've been speeding or not. On the second part, the first is obvious.
[This goes over it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy-efficient_driving#Maintaining_an_efficient_speed). It's just Wikipedia but this is a point I've seen consistently backed up in every source I've seen. There are various links from the article there.
It might not be noticeable without a lot of data because many other factors can obscure it, but on longer drives, I've tried staying at different speeds for a while after resetting the fuel economy gauge and I've always seen it consistently improve with lower speeds.
I'm sure it does make some difference, but I still can't really tell how much. Like I said, in consistently moving traffic I don't see a significant difference on long journeys. When you said improves, how much are we talking about here? I'd guess I don't see more than 0.5l/100km variation on long drives.
Whether you like the idea of the speed limit being increased is one thing- the selection of some of the areas though seems flawed...
-401- from 35/115 to Cobourg
-401- from Colborne to Belleville
... but the chunk between these two (between Cobourg and Colborne, about 22kms) isnt included?
Cool then- my 75km commute will have the speed limit change 3 times each way, all while staying on the same road. That makes sense, and definitely won't cause a shitshow 👍
>Cool then- my 75km commute will have the speed limit change 3 times each way, all while staying on the same road. That makes sense, and definitely won't cause a shitshow
Considering the 100km/h speed limit on Ontario highways is treated as more of a "suggestion" with the average speed being well above 100km/h. And considering how many people come on this subreddit to complain about people going exactly the speed limit (when there's no traffic). I imagine it will cause literally 0 shitshows.
Its cause its pretty widely accepted that speed limit+15kmph is the *real* speed limit and on highways you can get away with +20kmph. Cops wont pull you over for +15kmph so is the "speed limit" really the limit if there is nothing stopping you from going 15kmph more? This means that 100kmph zones are *really* 120kmph *enforced* but a 110kmph is a 130kmph enforced zone.
The issue with all the 110kmph zones is people ether don't notice the new speed limit, cant read, or are just so deep into no-brain-only-drool mode that they just leave their cruse control on and don't adjust accordingly. You then have others who notice and speed up causing a bigger delta in speeds. And for this particular stretch you get an even better constant back and forth which could probably cause an issue, if only cause cops will intentionally sit at the random short stretch of 100kmph and fish for easy tickets.
>The issue with all the 110kmph zones is people ether don't notice the new speed limit, cant read, or are just so deep into no-brain-only-drool mode that they just leave their cruse control on and don't adjust accordingly. You then have others who notice and speed up causing a bigger delta in speeds. And for this particular stretch you get an even better constant back and forth which could probably cause an issue, if only cause cops will intentionally sit at the random short stretch of 100kmph and fish for easy tickets.
That is not at all true for the 110km/h sections I regularly drive. It's been great.
I'm neither for, nor against the speed increase.
I questioned the wisdom of, in one swift move, having the speed be 110 between bowmanville and cobourg, 100 between cobourg and colborne, and then back up to 110 between colborne and belleville.
There's only 22kms between two of these new runs at 110- why not just include it? Seems odd to have this random drop in speed limit, in the middle.
Not sure what evidence they are using for this particular decision.
The 401 from Cobourg to Colborne narrows and is more curvy. Colborne to Belleville it straightens out. 35/115 to Cobourg is 3 lanes and mostly straight. So it seems logical you have the speed a bit lower between Cobourg and Colborne..
With that said, I’m of the belief that the 401 should be 120 on all rural sections.
It has 1 more curve to the highway, compared to 35/115 to cobourg. Fair point that it's 3 lanes compared to 2.
However, both those counts go directly against the next span at 110- Colborne to Belleville is full of curves, and only has 2 lanes.
That's a possibility- seems like a long adjustment distance though, and we didn't have that before at that location- even going back 6ish years ago, when the 3rd lane actually ended as an off-ramp for Cobourg, with little warning.
I'm sure they have their reason(s), but i cannot see them.
>With that said, I’m of the belief that the 401 should be 120 on all rural sections.
I would 100% be for this, as long as speed limits start to be more strictly enforced. No point raising limits from 100 to 120 when cars are averaging around 130km/h in rural sections.
Yes, higher limits, but stricter enforcement would be perfect.
In urban areas and through Toronto I feel variable speed limits that change depending on time of day would be great.
Yeah I guess, I drive daily from Whitby to Brighton exit - I set cruise to 126-128 and feel fine
Agree at 120, should be 120 going eastbound past the 418 at least. At least 110 means you are a lot safer at 125ish
On the two lane sections? I’m not sure it matters much as the de facto limit is at least 125-130 anyways. But given the number of transports, I’m not sure you want to give any car driver the excuse to act even more stupidly when stuck behind a transport doing 105.
As with other comments- i hope you're right- but given my experience with driving in this area, i dont have much faith in everyone else out there on the highway.
Oh, so would you rather it all be 100? It's an improvement. Maybe not perfect but it's going to save you time!
Man, some people are never happy and just need to complain.
It depends on lane and shoulder width, frequency of interchanges, grade and typical visibility.
For real though, you're bitching about 3 limit changes over a half hour drive. Get real.
I'd like to downvote this, but you don't deserve the negative karma, the cops do.
You're right- they will probably camp the hell out of this transition.
Can we just PLEASE enforce the left lane?
I for one don’t care if someone is passing in the left lane at 120 or 160. The biggest danger is the unaware blind driving causing left lane traffic and not moving over quickly when (if they even look at their mirror) see traffic behind them build up!
Want to not see cars weave in and out? Create a culture that believes in KEEPING RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS. Thats how it’s supposed to work to begin with.
Outside of certain major cities, the Americans and Europeans do such a good job here.
The entire 400-series should be 110. In most other parts of Canada, an equivalent design road would be posted at 110 and have been for many years. I'd even say that some of the more rural stretches could even be 120.
The MOUNTAINS between Alberta and BC are 110. Blew my goddamn mind. The 401 coukd probably just say fuck it and go full autobahn with how straight it is
Canada has nowhere near as good of a licensing system as Germany. They don’t license you unless you know how to drive. And they don’t let you get a license by going to a small town.
>The 401 coukd probably just say fuck it and go full autobahn with how straight it is
No thanks, the average Canadian driver doesn't have half the competency of the average German driver because of how much easier it is to get a license here.
This right here. The quality of drivers in this province is shameful.
My conspiracy theory is they are super lenient because having a car is essentially a requirement to survive here.
The more people with cars the more likely they’ll support highway expansions over public transit infrastructure
Most of it - part of the 406 in St. Catharines isn’t built to a high enough standard for 100 to be a safe limit. (I know some traffic engineers, this is something I’ve been told by them)
I also don’t think anything above 100 is realistic in Toronto, on the 417 through Ottawa, or the 403 in Hamilton.
All those examples people cite from the US where speed limits are 70 mph are always in rural areas. I drive I-5 in Washington State from time to time, it’s 70 on some sections but it drops to 60 in Bellingham and it’s 60 once you get close to Seattle.
Yeah, the 406 is a bit of a special case. I can appreciate that.
I can also appreciate having a lower limit in urban areas like the GTA, Ottawa etc. I should have actually phrased my original comment better and said that all *rural* areas should be 110, with a few areas even being able to handle 120. Most of the 400-series outside of the major urban centres can handle it.
So basically from the 115 to Kingston it will be 110 (minus 22km) then from Kingston to the 416 down to 100 then from the 416 to Quebec back up to 110.
I don’t understand the logic.
Kingston to 416 is notoriously bad for accidents. Especially east of Brockville in the winter. I think it's very weather-sensitive.
And the highway west of Brockville definitely does not seem designed for 110.
They should increase it, but also make people follow lane discipline. Everyone should be at minimum 110, with every car strictly using the passing lane only for passing.
Considering the fact that a large chunk of people are zoned out while driving, traffic cops could make a shit ton of money by enforcing lane discipline. I wish they would.
110 minimum is way too high. There are many reasons to be going slower even in good conditions. The Autobahn doesn't even have minimums, and allows vehicles on that can reach at least 60.
I mean the shit isn't enforced anyway so why not. Maybe we go the way of the autobahn. Also eroding our health care will mean people will die more frequently when they get into bad accidents. Things are going great. Everything is fine!
The autobahn is a safer highway then the 400 series, because people know how to drive.
I'd love a section that is like the autobahn but no one understands the left lane is for passing and not chilling
This is a good step in the right direction. Sadly offsetting this is the lowering of the limits on many regional roads as set by the municipalities. There are many cases of single lane roads being improved with double lanes only to have the limit reduced from 80 km/h to 70 or even 60 and not due to congestion.
And it’s not even consistent provincewide.
In the London area, Middlesex County sets most County Roads at 90 km/h. And yet provincial highways in the area like 4 from Arva to Lucan is set at 80 by the province. It seems backwards for both Highbury Ave and Hyde Park Road, the parallel county roads, to have the higher speed limit than the provincial highway.
When I moved to my current area I quickly discovered that 130 was the regular speed and when I saw someone pulled over people from the area were like “whoa, he must have been going 150 to get pulled over”
The speed limits were actually [113 kph (70 mph)](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-speed-limit-explainer-1.5123724) when he crashed going around 175 kph. They were lowered to 100 kph the next year as a result of the oil crisis.
I agree. Passing lanes are for safe passing and that’s all.
These people that rage at people passing center lane traffic “too slowly” need to seek therapy, or at least re-read the drivers handbook.
It's for me and only me because I'm always passing and everyone else should never try to pass because them passing isn't passing fast enough. The lane was literally paved only for me, the passer, all these morons telling others to stay out of my lane need to stay out of my lane. God forbid I have to slow by 5km/h to let someone else pass someone else 1km in front of me - in those instances I speed up more flash my high beams to assert dominance. How dare anyone use me lane.
> or at least re-read the drivers handbook.
The drivers handbook does not tell you to sit in the passing lane and impede faster traffic as long as you are still overtaking cars. It tells you the opposite, to move to the right when faster traffic wants to pass you.
[When faster traffic wants to pass you, move to the right and let it pass in safety. When being passed on an undivided road where the passing driver has pulled into the opposite lane, pay attention to oncoming traffic and move closer to the right side of the lane. Be prepared to slow down to let the passing driver get in front of you more quickly to prevent a collision.](https://www.ontario.ca/document/official-mto-drivers-handbook/changing-positions)
> You’re not sitting in the passing lane, if you’re passing.
>
> You’re passing.
If you are not moving over when safe to let faster traffic pass you then you are sitting in the passing lane.
The drivers handbook *you* cited tells you to do so. But I guess the Drivers Handbook was only a credible source when you thought it said what you wanted to believe.
If you're going to tell people to re-read the drivers handbook, it might be a good idea to have read it yourself...
>Sorry we don’t have infinite passing lanes.
If we did, you wouldn't have to move over to let faster traffic through, but we don't. It is for that exact reason that you are not supposed to just camp out in the passing lane as long as you are technically overtaking cars.
> You can’t move over when passing, you’re passing. There is another vehicle there. That’s what passing means.
Seriously... Have you ever actually driven a car before?
If you are in the passing lane for so long that faster traffic is piling up behind you, you are either not actively passing or are passing multiple cars at once.
Obviously if you’re not passing, get out of the passing lane.
I’m not sure where you got the impression I think people should be in the passing lane if they’re not passing. I’m pretty sure you made that part up.
Pass in the passing lane.
Not passing? Don’t be in the passing lane. It’s pretty simple.
If you want to go faster, and all the lanes are being used properly, too bad. Follow the law & share the road.
This would be great if the stretch between Kingston and Belleville were 3 lanes. As it is, I spend most of my evening commute going under 100km/h because it is so saturated with transports.
Increasing the limit won't magically increase the top speed of a fully loaded 18-wheeler or override company policies limiting drivers to 105km/h.
This is just going to cause more accidents when impatient people are forced to drop further below the limit due to trucks passing.
All it really increases is the difference between car and transport speeds.
everyone should just drive 130kmph. thats 80mph, which is highway speed in the united states, & OPP wont pull you over if you’re doing 130 (talked to an OPP officer about this).
I'm pretty sure the threshold for speeding in Ontario is 120km/h before you're pulled over. Perhaps with the new increase to 110km/h, they bumped it to 130km/h?
401 West from Mississauga to Windsor needs to have the speed limit raised. I believe Chatham to Windsor is already 110, but what about the large stretch from Mississauga to Chatham?
People speed because they are impatient and want to be ahead of traffic. It won't matter, average speed will still by 20kph over the limit. Get ready for 130 to 150 kph crashes.
Highway 69 in the parry sound area in the past couple years increased the speed limit to 110. I frequently drive that road and while there was a bit of a speed increase for the most part people still drive the same as when it was a 100 (usually between 115 and 125). What I do notice is a lot less speed variation between the slow cars and the fast cars, which feels a lot safer IMO.
Travelling above 120 starts to really eat away at your fuel economy and with most cars now displaying that info (and the price of gas) I don’t think you’ll find most people increasing their speed by a full 10 km/h even if the speed limit jumps by that much.
If people gave a shit about fuel economy, pickup trucks wouldn’t be the most popular car in Canada. I mean, I guess some of those drivers are getting better mileage since they literally never put anything in their flatbed…
Yes, I've had the same observation having made that trip many times.
Never once have I seen people change their speed based on the posted limit, even when it isn't congested. People just do what ever speed they want.
This is already proven false.
In the vast majority of cases people travel at the speed they feel safe going, the actual limit is largely irrelevant to the equation.
This is why everyone speeds on those big open boulevards with very wide lanes. You can make those roads 40 all you want, people will go 60-70. You want people to go slower? Make the road narrower. Road design and congestion are by far the biggest influences on average speed.
Also 130-150 kph crashes happen now, so I'm not sure what your point is.
The QEW between Hamilton and Niagara still averages around 110-120ish in my experience. There are for sure 130 km/hr drivers, but that's not the flow of traffic.
Why would you set your cruise to 119 and not 120?
You know most people doing that speed set to 120, so you are just going slightly slower to either annoy them or make them pass you causing more road rage and more opportunities for collision.
I just figured gave me a small margin of error. I am not camped in the left lane and do not have many coming up behind me at 1kmph more. Actually I pass quite a few too even at 119.
I don't mean to bother you, but I'm honestly bewildered about your 1kph "margin of error" and what purpose it serves. Why not just at at 120 like everyone else?
But everyone else not at 120 really, there are just as many that I overtake at 119 as those that overtake me. And if I run into a cop in the mood to pull over those doing 120 plus the thinking was I would skirt by. Not very scientific I understand. Knock wood superstition? Anyway can't see it affects anyone.
I've made that trip many times. Never once have I seen people change their speed based on the posted limit, even when it isn't congested. People just do what ever speed they want.
Nope. Countless studies and pilot projects have proven you wrong. People don't drive 20 over the limit, they drive at the speed they feel comfortable with which happens to be 20 over the limit. This is why the average traffic speeds on the QEW in Niagara haven't changed since the speed limits were raised to 110 several years ago.
The 401 between Napanee and Kingston is already dangerous. There's no way this is going to end well. It's only 2 lanes each direction and people speed, weave and tailgate. We have a lot of semi-truck accidents, and people are getting hurt and killed. The Napanee OPP are out a lot but it's never enough. People just use Waze and slow down for the 2 km, then resume their shitty behaviour (seems most people here agree it won't change anyone's behaviour).
I don't see how this benefits anyone. People will still do the 130km/h they've always done but now the fine will be "20 over" instead of "30 over". Maybe once this stretch is 3 lanes all the way from Kingston to Belleville it'd be better.
PSA: get a dashcam. Even a cheap one can save your bacon.
The education is in shambles, health care is on its last breath, but sure, let's change speed limits on some highways. On unrelated note, does anyone know which company gets the contract to change all the signs that will need changing?
How do they get above 40 km/hr that’s my average speed during my commute
Most of western Europe that same highway would have a speed limit of 130.
Same in many states. Utah for example has 80mph highways which is 129km/hr
Texas has a few 85-90s as well.
They probably have a culture with less hateful and spiteful behaviour
No, they all hate each other too, they just have better driver licensing tests.
When I got my G I was almost certain I failed... Still passed. The test has gotta be incredibly easy going.
Its moreso to do with the fact that most EU countries will not even let you get a license unless you have formally attended an accredited driving education program. These drivers ed companies are also more tightly controlled, ensuring that companies arent just passing people to make $ by holding them partly responsible if the new driver makes repeated bad decisions. Canada? Theres people who actively seek out the least demanding drive test centres, sometimes HOURS away from their locality, because why would they?
They also don't all drive giant metal monster death machines like in north America.
Well their cities are a lot older lol so cars had to be built AROUND and for European cities. Over here, we build our cities for cars, trucks, and “monster death machines”.
SUVs are still present in Europe
Do they enforce the law as it is? Like 130 fine but 135 will get pulled over?
Yeah I know for sure in Switzerland there's photo radar and it's set to 135.
The 400s should be 120kmh. They were designed for the speed and it's why people feel "comfortable" driving at that speed. That being said, raise the 400 series limits but then ENFORCE the new limit. Otherwise it's a pointless exercise.
Well we know it won’t be enforced. So there is your answer.
> raise the 400 series limits but then ENFORCE the new limit. They have been doing this regularly in Ottawa. The 110km/h reduces to 100km/h once the highway transitions from a rural to a more suburban zone. Cops are regularly just sitting past the speed change signage.
From Kingston to Cornwall on the 401 you can see DAILY the majority of drivers going 140+. You will see on average one a day doing 170 lol There has been close to 0 enforcement for over a year now. When there are cops out they don’t even pull people over going 130 so now everyone is emboldened
I cant decide which type of driver I hate to see more, the one's that blow past you while you're going 120 or the ones that weave in and out of traffic treating the highway cars like an obstacle course
Speed on an open road isn't a problem but weaving is dangerous af.
I’ve done 140 past a cop like 3 times already and I’m still going strong with no tickets. To be fair the entire lane was moving that speed so I guess that’s why he did nothing.
My neighbor travels to Quebec and back very frequently and always has been for like 5 years. He said he's always done the same, it's just long stretch driving. He finally got pulled over just a week or two ago and got hit with a fine and demerit points. When it happens it happens it's luck of the draw it feels, not so much enforcement.
And I'm here getting a ticket for doing 85 in a posted 80 🤦🏻♀️ No word of a lie.
lol I would take that to court just to be as big of a pain in the ass as possible for that cop. I doubt the cop wouldn’t even show up to explain why he thought he had nothing better to do than ticket someone for 5 over wtf?
Yeah it was odd. It was a stat holiday and I was going to work. I paid it late and it was some ridiculously low amount of money.
> I doubt the cop wouldn’t even show up 2 problems with this, cops get "court days" in their scheduled shifts now...AND, the cop doesnt need to be there, the prosecutor will get the officer's notes and the trial will proceed.
What kind of heavenly commute are you experiencing? Would you prefer to see a 38 minute drive increased to a 77 minute drive because people park in the left lane going 90 and brake way too much?
It's Ottawa. Everyone on the highway is doing 85 all the time anyways
Yes, in Ottawa-proper, but once you past the suburbs (Kanata, Orleans, Barrhaven), the speed increases.
I envy Ottawa for the enforcement
I drive 120 all day everyday on the 417. I’ll maintain that speed going by a cop. The 100 limit is definitely not strictly enforced. Cops should be pulling over cars driving dangerously, not just a blanket speed enforcement. Weaving through at 120 when everyone else is doing 95 is dangerous. 130 when traffic is 120 is fine.
I agree. Don't know what they're talking about but I've never seen a speed trap on the 417 in the three years I've lived here. Ottawa is naturally the slowest city I've ever lived in, people regularly get on the highway going 60km/h, so I understand why enforcement is uncommon.
I've definitely seen OPP policing the 417. There's at least one good spot in Kanata, east of Eagleson exit, and I've occasionally seen some on one of the on ramps toward the west end, maybe Maitland?
Fair enough. I basically never go all the way to Kanata so it's entirely possible!
Yep very regularly in Kanata and also the area around IKEA.
Same here. You get OPP traps on 416 just south of city a fair bit but again, average speed there in 120ish and never seen many being pulled over. The 417 is often crazy slow even when wide open. It’s so much showe than 416 and 401 that I rarely go over 115 on it for fear I’d get pulled as that’s going a fair bit faster than traffic overall.
There's pretty regularly (multiple weekdays in the afternoon) a speed trap just west of the 416, right in the middle between the eastbound lanes and the northbound 416 to westbound 417 ramp. They're looking for **egregious** speeders, though; I've driven through that speed trap well over 100 times in the past 15 years on cruise control at 120km/h without any issues.
The only place i have ever seen speed limit strictly enforced, is 401 near Napanee. That particular OPP detachment seems to regularly pull ppl over for anything beyond 10 over. They're not always there- but when they are, they seem to always have someone pulled over.
There is an OPP training facility in the area.
Oh really? Interesting... thanks for that tidbit of info- i think that pretty solves it.
I wonder what it is about that detachment. It's been like that for decades.
No idea- i'll give them credit though- they've been consistent, year to year. If you drive through there regularly, you know exactly what to expect.
Years ago driving in that area I remember a white BMW that blew past me, was doing easily 160. Ten minutes later I saw that same car on the side of the 401 with an OPP cruiser.
Napanee to Gan
Imagine if drivers were competent and courteous and attentive and cooperated to not even need a speed limit on 400 series? Though that would only work outside of peak volume times
Meanwhile over in r/Hamilton "everyone drives 140kmh" .. I personally don't. 110-115 is my preference and I'm the one getting downvoted. Edit: Look they followed me. 😆😂
I have no issues with people going 110-115 or even 100. But you better not be on the left lane. The amount of time I see people doing this then get aggressively brake-checked, is insane. Once they looked at me for validation and I gave them the middle finger myself before aggressively merging onto their lane. They moved to the right afterwards, so I guess they learned their lesson. 😂😂
I'd love to see a minimum speed limit like they have on some Quebec highways, but I'm not sure how that works during daily gridlock?
Not like the cops are going to pull you over when hundreds of other cars are also stuck in bumper to bumper traffic.
It’d be so easy to set up a bunch of cameras along the route and automate it, like they do with municipal ones. Set them to 140 km/h or something and really show that people can’t just do whatever they want
Speed limits only matter if they’re enforced. 120 on the 400’s is typical and 99.9% of cops do not care, or at least do not bother enforcing it.
I'm curious to see if it does affect anything..... I already see ppl going 140-150 pretty regularly. If we up it will they keep what they're doing or go even faster? Also I know it's not the SPEED, it's the driver
So we officially stopped giving a shit about the environment or the price of gas. 20% more speed uses >20% more fuel (air drag is not linear), and 20% more engine wear. But this is a province with a Premiere who actually said that more highways are greener because you get home sooner.
But don’t you also get places 20% faster, doesn’t that counteract the extra fuel in some way?
No. It's about your RPM and distance traveled. Says your engine can maintain 100kmh at 1.2kRPM = $1.2/km. Or your engine can maintain 140 at 2.1kRPM = $2.1/km these are simplified numbers
Bruh. City I get 8km/100L highway its 10...highways are more efficient.
I mean my car uses twice as much gas on short journeys than long so not sure I really buy this argument. Cars are super efficient at speed, whether it's 100 or 130.
Cars are less efficient over short distances because they often involve slowing down and speeding up which wastes gas. Cruising without slowing down is more efficient. However after above 80 or 90, your fuel efficiency drops because wind resistance increases exponentially.
Do you have data to back this up? Because I see what my car does after every journey, and on highway drives I see very little difference if I've been speeding or not. On the second part, the first is obvious.
[This goes over it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy-efficient_driving#Maintaining_an_efficient_speed). It's just Wikipedia but this is a point I've seen consistently backed up in every source I've seen. There are various links from the article there. It might not be noticeable without a lot of data because many other factors can obscure it, but on longer drives, I've tried staying at different speeds for a while after resetting the fuel economy gauge and I've always seen it consistently improve with lower speeds.
I'm sure it does make some difference, but I still can't really tell how much. Like I said, in consistently moving traffic I don't see a significant difference on long journeys. When you said improves, how much are we talking about here? I'd guess I don't see more than 0.5l/100km variation on long drives.
Whether you like the idea of the speed limit being increased is one thing- the selection of some of the areas though seems flawed... -401- from 35/115 to Cobourg -401- from Colborne to Belleville ... but the chunk between these two (between Cobourg and Colborne, about 22kms) isnt included? Cool then- my 75km commute will have the speed limit change 3 times each way, all while staying on the same road. That makes sense, and definitely won't cause a shitshow 👍
>Cool then- my 75km commute will have the speed limit change 3 times each way, all while staying on the same road. That makes sense, and definitely won't cause a shitshow Considering the 100km/h speed limit on Ontario highways is treated as more of a "suggestion" with the average speed being well above 100km/h. And considering how many people come on this subreddit to complain about people going exactly the speed limit (when there's no traffic). I imagine it will cause literally 0 shitshows.
Its cause its pretty widely accepted that speed limit+15kmph is the *real* speed limit and on highways you can get away with +20kmph. Cops wont pull you over for +15kmph so is the "speed limit" really the limit if there is nothing stopping you from going 15kmph more? This means that 100kmph zones are *really* 120kmph *enforced* but a 110kmph is a 130kmph enforced zone. The issue with all the 110kmph zones is people ether don't notice the new speed limit, cant read, or are just so deep into no-brain-only-drool mode that they just leave their cruse control on and don't adjust accordingly. You then have others who notice and speed up causing a bigger delta in speeds. And for this particular stretch you get an even better constant back and forth which could probably cause an issue, if only cause cops will intentionally sit at the random short stretch of 100kmph and fish for easy tickets.
>The issue with all the 110kmph zones is people ether don't notice the new speed limit, cant read, or are just so deep into no-brain-only-drool mode that they just leave their cruse control on and don't adjust accordingly. You then have others who notice and speed up causing a bigger delta in speeds. And for this particular stretch you get an even better constant back and forth which could probably cause an issue, if only cause cops will intentionally sit at the random short stretch of 100kmph and fish for easy tickets. That is not at all true for the 110km/h sections I regularly drive. It's been great.
Only time will tell! I'm sure we'll all be commenting on this again once it's in play.
The speed limit is going to vary from 100 to 110 and basically every driver will be driving 120-130, as per usual.
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I'm neither for, nor against the speed increase. I questioned the wisdom of, in one swift move, having the speed be 110 between bowmanville and cobourg, 100 between cobourg and colborne, and then back up to 110 between colborne and belleville. There's only 22kms between two of these new runs at 110- why not just include it? Seems odd to have this random drop in speed limit, in the middle. Not sure what evidence they are using for this particular decision.
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Exactly. It's a bunch of highway in essentially nowhere, why specifically exclude it? Just seems so random.
Speed trap. Same reason chatham is 100 while windsor is 110. Creating an artificial speed trap to nail everyone who hits cruise control at 125.
BOO! That is all.
This. 150 in the 110 section = ticket 150 when it drops back to 100 = impound fees and license suspension
The 401 from Cobourg to Colborne narrows and is more curvy. Colborne to Belleville it straightens out. 35/115 to Cobourg is 3 lanes and mostly straight. So it seems logical you have the speed a bit lower between Cobourg and Colborne.. With that said, I’m of the belief that the 401 should be 120 on all rural sections.
It has 1 more curve to the highway, compared to 35/115 to cobourg. Fair point that it's 3 lanes compared to 2. However, both those counts go directly against the next span at 110- Colborne to Belleville is full of curves, and only has 2 lanes.
Perhaps it’s just because it’s the section after it goes from 3 to 2 lanes so they want to give people time to adjust? No idea honestly.
Speed trap same idea as chatham. Free ticket zone for all cruise control users rolling 125
That's a possibility- seems like a long adjustment distance though, and we didn't have that before at that location- even going back 6ish years ago, when the 3rd lane actually ended as an off-ramp for Cobourg, with little warning. I'm sure they have their reason(s), but i cannot see them.
>With that said, I’m of the belief that the 401 should be 120 on all rural sections. I would 100% be for this, as long as speed limits start to be more strictly enforced. No point raising limits from 100 to 120 when cars are averaging around 130km/h in rural sections.
Yes, higher limits, but stricter enforcement would be perfect. In urban areas and through Toronto I feel variable speed limits that change depending on time of day would be great.
Yeah I guess, I drive daily from Whitby to Brighton exit - I set cruise to 126-128 and feel fine Agree at 120, should be 120 going eastbound past the 418 at least. At least 110 means you are a lot safer at 125ish
On the two lane sections? I’m not sure it matters much as the de facto limit is at least 125-130 anyways. But given the number of transports, I’m not sure you want to give any car driver the excuse to act even more stupidly when stuck behind a transport doing 105.
If someone can’t handle the speed limit changing 3 times over 75KM they really shouldn’t be driving.
Agreed. My comment was more concerning what everyone else will be doing around me.
Nothing about your commute is going to change. Everyone is still going to drive with the speedo firmly planted at 120+.
As with other comments- i hope you're right- but given my experience with driving in this area, i dont have much faith in everyone else out there on the highway.
Oh, so would you rather it all be 100? It's an improvement. Maybe not perfect but it's going to save you time! Man, some people are never happy and just need to complain.
It depends on lane and shoulder width, frequency of interchanges, grade and typical visibility. For real though, you're bitching about 3 limit changes over a half hour drive. Get real.
At least you'll know where the cops will be sitting. They love the transitions from 110-100
I'd like to downvote this, but you don't deserve the negative karma, the cops do. You're right- they will probably camp the hell out of this transition.
Can we just PLEASE enforce the left lane? I for one don’t care if someone is passing in the left lane at 120 or 160. The biggest danger is the unaware blind driving causing left lane traffic and not moving over quickly when (if they even look at their mirror) see traffic behind them build up! Want to not see cars weave in and out? Create a culture that believes in KEEPING RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS. Thats how it’s supposed to work to begin with. Outside of certain major cities, the Americans and Europeans do such a good job here.
That will make the biggest difference for safety and efficacy
The entire 400-series should be 110. In most other parts of Canada, an equivalent design road would be posted at 110 and have been for many years. I'd even say that some of the more rural stretches could even be 120.
The MOUNTAINS between Alberta and BC are 110. Blew my goddamn mind. The 401 coukd probably just say fuck it and go full autobahn with how straight it is
Most of the Coq in BC is 120
Canada has nowhere near as good of a licensing system as Germany. They don’t license you unless you know how to drive. And they don’t let you get a license by going to a small town.
>The 401 coukd probably just say fuck it and go full autobahn with how straight it is No thanks, the average Canadian driver doesn't have half the competency of the average German driver because of how much easier it is to get a license here.
This right here. The quality of drivers in this province is shameful. My conspiracy theory is they are super lenient because having a car is essentially a requirement to survive here. The more people with cars the more likely they’ll support highway expansions over public transit infrastructure
No other equivalent has the volume though and that's kinda the difference
Realistically it’s not like anyone actually drives at 100. Most people are doing 110-120 anyways.
Most of it - part of the 406 in St. Catharines isn’t built to a high enough standard for 100 to be a safe limit. (I know some traffic engineers, this is something I’ve been told by them) I also don’t think anything above 100 is realistic in Toronto, on the 417 through Ottawa, or the 403 in Hamilton. All those examples people cite from the US where speed limits are 70 mph are always in rural areas. I drive I-5 in Washington State from time to time, it’s 70 on some sections but it drops to 60 in Bellingham and it’s 60 once you get close to Seattle.
Yeah, the 406 is a bit of a special case. I can appreciate that. I can also appreciate having a lower limit in urban areas like the GTA, Ottawa etc. I should have actually phrased my original comment better and said that all *rural* areas should be 110, with a few areas even being able to handle 120. Most of the 400-series outside of the major urban centres can handle it.
lol @ 110.. people cruise at 130.
And yet the 407, which has a design speed way greater than 120km/h, where people go 120km/h *minimum* remains at 100km/h 😥
So basically from the 115 to Kingston it will be 110 (minus 22km) then from Kingston to the 416 down to 100 then from the 416 to Quebec back up to 110. I don’t understand the logic.
Kingston to 416 is notoriously bad for accidents. Especially east of Brockville in the winter. I think it's very weather-sensitive. And the highway west of Brockville definitely does not seem designed for 110.
They should increase it, but also make people follow lane discipline. Everyone should be at minimum 110, with every car strictly using the passing lane only for passing.
Considering the fact that a large chunk of people are zoned out while driving, traffic cops could make a shit ton of money by enforcing lane discipline. I wish they would.
110 minimum is way too high. There are many reasons to be going slower even in good conditions. The Autobahn doesn't even have minimums, and allows vehicles on that can reach at least 60.
Yes, you are correct, but then that would require people to follow lane discipline even more stringently.
Wow awesome you'll still be stuck behind trucks doing 105/km
I mean the shit isn't enforced anyway so why not. Maybe we go the way of the autobahn. Also eroding our health care will mean people will die more frequently when they get into bad accidents. Things are going great. Everything is fine!
The autobahn is a safer highway then the 400 series, because people know how to drive. I'd love a section that is like the autobahn but no one understands the left lane is for passing and not chilling
99.9% of ON drivers would never pass a German or EU drivers test.
This is a good step in the right direction. Sadly offsetting this is the lowering of the limits on many regional roads as set by the municipalities. There are many cases of single lane roads being improved with double lanes only to have the limit reduced from 80 km/h to 70 or even 60 and not due to congestion.
And it’s not even consistent provincewide. In the London area, Middlesex County sets most County Roads at 90 km/h. And yet provincial highways in the area like 4 from Arva to Lucan is set at 80 by the province. It seems backwards for both Highbury Ave and Hyde Park Road, the parallel county roads, to have the higher speed limit than the provincial highway.
What if they actually just started ticketing left lane hogs. Its amazing how many unsafe defensive drivers there are in the gta.
The QEW from Fort Erie to Niagara Falls was a no-brainer for 110km/h. Why didn't it make the list?
When I moved to my current area I quickly discovered that 130 was the regular speed and when I saw someone pulled over people from the area were like “whoa, he must have been going 150 to get pulled over”
lol, the speed limit has been 120KM since I've been in Ontario (2007).
...unofficially
Yes, but no OPP officer is going to pull you over for less than 130
"What are speed limits?"- Brampton driver
Needed this 20 years ago
Tim Horton would have loved this news
The speed limits were actually [113 kph (70 mph)](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-speed-limit-explainer-1.5123724) when he crashed going around 175 kph. They were lowered to 100 kph the next year as a result of the oil crisis.
What about his predilection for booze and pills ?
They'll raise it and people will just go 30-40km/h above that limit anyway. 60-70 if you're a dumbass riding a crotch rocket.
There is a stretch after Bracebridge on 11N that is 110km/h. Most people still drive 110-125 on either side of the sign.
Don't mind me I'll still be doing 110 km, my gas my speed.
just GTFO out of the left lane.
Who said he was using the left lane?
Who said anything about lanes?
If I'm still overtaking people in the middle lane. I'll stay in what lane at what speed I deem safe and reasonable to overtake thanks.
I agree. Passing lanes are for safe passing and that’s all. These people that rage at people passing center lane traffic “too slowly” need to seek therapy, or at least re-read the drivers handbook.
It's for me and only me because I'm always passing and everyone else should never try to pass because them passing isn't passing fast enough. The lane was literally paved only for me, the passer, all these morons telling others to stay out of my lane need to stay out of my lane. God forbid I have to slow by 5km/h to let someone else pass someone else 1km in front of me - in those instances I speed up more flash my high beams to assert dominance. How dare anyone use me lane.
> or at least re-read the drivers handbook. The drivers handbook does not tell you to sit in the passing lane and impede faster traffic as long as you are still overtaking cars. It tells you the opposite, to move to the right when faster traffic wants to pass you. [When faster traffic wants to pass you, move to the right and let it pass in safety. When being passed on an undivided road where the passing driver has pulled into the opposite lane, pay attention to oncoming traffic and move closer to the right side of the lane. Be prepared to slow down to let the passing driver get in front of you more quickly to prevent a collision.](https://www.ontario.ca/document/official-mto-drivers-handbook/changing-positions)
You’re not sitting in the passing lane, if you’re passing. You’re passing. Sorry we don’t have infinite passing lanes.
> You’re not sitting in the passing lane, if you’re passing. > > You’re passing. If you are not moving over when safe to let faster traffic pass you then you are sitting in the passing lane. The drivers handbook *you* cited tells you to do so. But I guess the Drivers Handbook was only a credible source when you thought it said what you wanted to believe. If you're going to tell people to re-read the drivers handbook, it might be a good idea to have read it yourself... >Sorry we don’t have infinite passing lanes. If we did, you wouldn't have to move over to let faster traffic through, but we don't. It is for that exact reason that you are not supposed to just camp out in the passing lane as long as you are technically overtaking cars.
You can’t move over when passing, you’re passing. There is another vehicle there. That’s what passing means.
> You can’t move over when passing, you’re passing. There is another vehicle there. That’s what passing means. Seriously... Have you ever actually driven a car before? If you are in the passing lane for so long that faster traffic is piling up behind you, you are either not actively passing or are passing multiple cars at once.
Obviously if you’re not passing, get out of the passing lane. I’m not sure where you got the impression I think people should be in the passing lane if they’re not passing. I’m pretty sure you made that part up. Pass in the passing lane. Not passing? Don’t be in the passing lane. It’s pretty simple. If you want to go faster, and all the lanes are being used properly, too bad. Follow the law & share the road.
Oh you and your reasonable and proper understanding of the word maximum and the Ontario Highway Traffic's Act
As long as you cruise in the right or middle lane, I encourage it!
This would be great if the stretch between Kingston and Belleville were 3 lanes. As it is, I spend most of my evening commute going under 100km/h because it is so saturated with transports. Increasing the limit won't magically increase the top speed of a fully loaded 18-wheeler or override company policies limiting drivers to 105km/h. This is just going to cause more accidents when impatient people are forced to drop further below the limit due to trucks passing. All it really increases is the difference between car and transport speeds.
>override company policies limiting drivers to 105km/h. You mean provincial law https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/1433/ontario-to-limit-truck-speed
Transports better not be included
Trucks 100 , cars 120 , motorcycles 140. I have spoken
Ahh yes 140 for bikes so when they go 150 they won't be a burden on our health care system.
Nah , they all gotta be the same .
everyone should just drive 130kmph. thats 80mph, which is highway speed in the united states, & OPP wont pull you over if you’re doing 130 (talked to an OPP officer about this).
I'm pretty sure the threshold for speeding in Ontario is 120km/h before you're pulled over. Perhaps with the new increase to 110km/h, they bumped it to 130km/h?
that is correct.
Wait, there's rules on the 400 series? That hasn't been my experience but sure does sound like a neat idea.
I agree with the change but let’s be real this is just an excuse to do less policing
What policing existed to begin with? All this does is reduce my fines so I can cruise a bit more at 130-140 range when going to Windsor.
What about London to KW
401 West from Mississauga to Windsor needs to have the speed limit raised. I believe Chatham to Windsor is already 110, but what about the large stretch from Mississauga to Chatham?
Just enforce the new speed limit, that's all I ask.
People speed because they are impatient and want to be ahead of traffic. It won't matter, average speed will still by 20kph over the limit. Get ready for 130 to 150 kph crashes.
Highway 69 in the parry sound area in the past couple years increased the speed limit to 110. I frequently drive that road and while there was a bit of a speed increase for the most part people still drive the same as when it was a 100 (usually between 115 and 125). What I do notice is a lot less speed variation between the slow cars and the fast cars, which feels a lot safer IMO. Travelling above 120 starts to really eat away at your fuel economy and with most cars now displaying that info (and the price of gas) I don’t think you’ll find most people increasing their speed by a full 10 km/h even if the speed limit jumps by that much.
If people gave a shit about fuel economy, pickup trucks wouldn’t be the most popular car in Canada. I mean, I guess some of those drivers are getting better mileage since they literally never put anything in their flatbed…
Could have fooled me. Despite fuel prices being what they are I was the slow person on the 401 last weekend doing only 120.
I dispute that. On the highways here that had the limit raised from 100 to 110 I have noticed zero difference in driver behaviour.
Yes, I've had the same observation having made that trip many times. Never once have I seen people change their speed based on the posted limit, even when it isn't congested. People just do what ever speed they want.
I’m not surprised. People drive according to conditions and what they’re comfortable with, not what a sign says.
This is already proven false. In the vast majority of cases people travel at the speed they feel safe going, the actual limit is largely irrelevant to the equation. This is why everyone speeds on those big open boulevards with very wide lanes. You can make those roads 40 all you want, people will go 60-70. You want people to go slower? Make the road narrower. Road design and congestion are by far the biggest influences on average speed. Also 130-150 kph crashes happen now, so I'm not sure what your point is.
The QEW between Hamilton and Niagara still averages around 110-120ish in my experience. There are for sure 130 km/hr drivers, but that's not the flow of traffic.
119 on the cruise control and passed by many
Why would you set your cruise to 119 and not 120? You know most people doing that speed set to 120, so you are just going slightly slower to either annoy them or make them pass you causing more road rage and more opportunities for collision.
I just figured gave me a small margin of error. I am not camped in the left lane and do not have many coming up behind me at 1kmph more. Actually I pass quite a few too even at 119.
I don't mean to bother you, but I'm honestly bewildered about your 1kph "margin of error" and what purpose it serves. Why not just at at 120 like everyone else?
But everyone else not at 120 really, there are just as many that I overtake at 119 as those that overtake me. And if I run into a cop in the mood to pull over those doing 120 plus the thinking was I would skirt by. Not very scientific I understand. Knock wood superstition? Anyway can't see it affects anyone.
I've made that trip many times. Never once have I seen people change their speed based on the posted limit, even when it isn't congested. People just do what ever speed they want.
Nope. Countless studies and pilot projects have proven you wrong. People don't drive 20 over the limit, they drive at the speed they feel comfortable with which happens to be 20 over the limit. This is why the average traffic speeds on the QEW in Niagara haven't changed since the speed limits were raised to 110 several years ago.
If I'm wrong then OK.
We have those now. Take a chill pill sandy
People get real testy if they think their rights are being revoked. Not everyone I think can drive safely at that speed.
The de facto speed limit is 20km/h over the posted limit. Why? Make the posted limit the actual limit (120) and enforce it with cameras. Boom, done.
We really should have winter speeds and summer speeds
Yeah, this can be done with variable speed signs. They have these in BC already.
Yup
I hope the area by me isn't one of the ones being changed. I'm uncomfortable going 80, usually stick to 50/60 roads.
Then, stay off the highway period .
Well I am losing my job Friday, and if I end up having to work out of town, you kinda have to.
Lol, they already have problems with tractor-trailer wrecks between colborne and belleville as it is.
The 401 between Napanee and Kingston is already dangerous. There's no way this is going to end well. It's only 2 lanes each direction and people speed, weave and tailgate. We have a lot of semi-truck accidents, and people are getting hurt and killed. The Napanee OPP are out a lot but it's never enough. People just use Waze and slow down for the 2 km, then resume their shitty behaviour (seems most people here agree it won't change anyone's behaviour). I don't see how this benefits anyone. People will still do the 130km/h they've always done but now the fine will be "20 over" instead of "30 over". Maybe once this stretch is 3 lanes all the way from Kingston to Belleville it'd be better. PSA: get a dashcam. Even a cheap one can save your bacon.
The education is in shambles, health care is on its last breath, but sure, let's change speed limits on some highways. On unrelated note, does anyone know which company gets the contract to change all the signs that will need changing?
This costs very little to implement. Signs need replacing anyways as they age too.