Go transit is primarily designed for commuters going to work in Toronto from the surrounding areas. They will drop you off at a central point and then it is up to local transit to get to your destination. That being said, this is a GTHA specific situation. Outside (e.g. Eastern and Northern Ontario) there isn't really reliable intercity transit like GO.

Greyhound was really the intercity travel system. Once it folded nothing replaced it.

Greyhound didn't fold, the routes were no longer subsidized by the feds, so the lines were dropped. No investment, no service.

Was it federally subsidized or provincially?

It wasn't. I was a driver there for the better part of a decade. It started going downhill fast when they sold to first group, and they moved Upper management to Texas. Very, very poorly run company. They refused to lease buses, the 'new' ones up here were American castoffs with a vynil wrap. Ran 'em to the ground... And there were a lot in the ground. They asked, begged, and pleaded for funding, and never got it. There was a non-compete clause with the gov' t so subsidized transit (rail, etc) couldn't be cheaper than we ran, but all too often that was ignored. We should have gotten small buses to keep service lines open, but we're talking about a company that wouldn't invest in GPS's here, so asking for a whole other vehicle type was out of scope to nay the least. I have lots of stories about why they failed, but ultimately it comes down to bad management.

Federal mostly; the provinces used to sell routes to different companies. Some at a "discount" from past years, so they did subsidize by charging less for the route. Stagecoach, British Company, started buying international bus companies 30 years ago, for the real estate. They never were the same quality or service as Gray Coach, or Canada Coach. The busses were secondary to the property holdings.

Must have been federal as it ceased Canadian operations except for some cross-border routes.

Provincially. I heard a report on the CBC a few years back on how the funds were reallocated to southern Ontario.

damn that's shitty

I ran one of the last private bus stations in the country, ironically, also one of the first. You could get a bus to any where in North America.

I’ve found the northlander bus to be relatively good for travel up the 400/11 but I haven’t taken it north of Huntsville

A coworker of mine lives in North Bay and she's had no issues with it.

Actually Flix and megabus and some other private bus companies have various routes in Southern Ontario between various cities.

You forgot West Ontario. It’s not to mistaken for Southwestern Ontario, which is 100% east of Western Ontario. Confused yet?? Detroit is north of Windsor. So when your facing west in Windsor, America is to the right…. And don’t get me started on ScareSkin Airlines in the Far North.

Leaves a lot to be desired. Go is way too limited and sparsely operated.  Breaks my heart travelling to northern parts of Ontario and seeing all the abandoned rail tracks and villages with signage that advertise “trains used to go through here in the 1800s you know?”.

In the GTA, it's actually not too bad. It used to be *awful* in places like Vaughan and Brampton. You literally couldn't bus home after 8pm in some areas because *buses didn't run that late*, it was that bad. There was a telephone pole where I used to live where someone had written the bus schedule on it with permanent marker (Because no one put up actual bus schedules) and after 8pm they just wrote "GOOD LUCK". That's how bad transit used to be. Mississauga and Brampton got ZUM, YRT got VIVA, those are actually pretty decent systems that get a ton of people where they need to go. The TTC gets a lot of shit but it's actually a pretty decent system, especially compared to the rest of the GTA. Northern Ontario is still fucked though, anything outside a 2 hour radius from Toronto is boned for public transport. There's a few exceptions in places like Thunder Bay, Peterborough, but those are still population centers so they need to have some form of transit, which they do.

In some small cities, most transit ends around 5pm on Sundays.

I am going to say Go is actually really good. And getting better. They always had good service from the 905 to 416. But now the inter 905 stuff is quite strong and getting better every year.

Our province is huge & without enough riders, it's usually not economically feasible. And when the province downloaded services to cities, funds became even more scarce.

Why does public transit have to be economically feasible? Are highways economically feasible? How much economic gain is there from adding another lane to the 401?

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I actually didn't mention the 413 on purpose. I do believe there would be huge economic benefits from a new highway. I just don't think they outweigh the environmental costs. But adding extra lanes on the 401? That doesn't help anyone - it just makes it look like you're doing something.

Why does public transit have to be economically feasible?

>Breaks my heart travelling to northern parts of Ontario and seeing all the abandoned rail tracks and villages with signage that advertise “trains used to go through here in the 1800s you know?”. Same. I wish they had maintained and repurposed the lines to create more transit hubs. A lot of these smaller communities would benefit if people could commute via mixed transit to get where they'd like to go.

I live basically on the Manitoba border. In my 23 years of life, I’ve only seen a passenger train twice, all while living next to tracks my entire life.

Yes, then the mine ran out. These were always going to be temporary towns

Trains to northern Ontario would be SO fun. Unless there are some already. But they need to also not cost the price of an all inclusive vacation

I still cannot hop on some sort of train in Peterborough to get to Union station in Toronto. It's ridiculous.

If by miracle PP and the conservatives don’t win you will get a fairly high speed train connection to union.

This isn't even a Lib vs Con issue. Both parties have promised rail transit to Peterborough for decades and nothing has ever become of it. The rail line is also very poorly maintained and the current freight trains roll by at about 10 km per hour. To even make it "fairly high speed" would need a huge amount of work. I'd love to have the Toronto - Peterborough - Ottawa link active again, but over half the track is torn out by now. Would take a wartime effort to get it going.

The liberals signed the RFP and made a new agency to oversee the new line to Peterborough. The conservatives have no plans to pay it and want to divert money to highways. I’m not a fan of either party but the liberals are better for trains, conservatives for highways.

Exactly. They just signed something and created more bureaucracy. That's not building a transit line to Peterborough. It's exactly what the cons and their Peterborough MP Dean del Mastro were doing as well. It's meaningless. Meanwhile, the OLP under McGuinty and Wynne expanded GO significantly, while OPCP under Ford is building the new subway line in Toronto. The issue is that Peterborough is a swing riding federally that both parties will promise the world to, but once elected they don't really care.

You guys get intercity transit?! *cries in northern Ontario*

*cries in Red Lake*

I plant trees in that neck of the woods and people in Southern Ontario always balk when I tell them that the VIA train ride to get to there is 24+ hours in the best of conditions, but usually closer to 30 hours with having to stop to let freight trains pass. Sounds outlandish for a trip where you never even leave the province.

It's crazy isn't it? Not to mention the stop in Red Lake Road is only 2-3 hours south of where you're actually headed still.

Oh shit, I didn't know it stopped there and didn't go further? That's basically vermillion bay. Wtf is in red lake road other than a camp and 3 houses?

Cries in Cambridge

It'll be back in a couple of years... hopefully

Do you have absolutely no options? Like if you don't have a car and need to leave the city then you're just SOL?

There’s the Ontario Northland bus which I think has one bus going east and one going west each day. And there’s flights. Air Canada only goes to Toronto, and they only go twice a day. WestJet goes to Winnipeg twice a day (I think) and on some days there *might* be a direct flight to Calgary. Porter has a half dozen flights to Toronto or Ottawa. There are also small regional airlines like BearSkin and Wasaya that go to some of the smaller towns and reserves. They have no bathroom, no flight attendant, and you can’t stand upright in the plane, but every seat is both an aisle and a window.

Don’t worry we don’t get much in Eastern Ontario either.

The problem with transit started 75 years ago. Mass transit was the enemy of the car companies. The current system is like trying to hold a crumbling foundation together with string.

It’s so heartbreaking that we used to have actual good public transit and it was all intentionally dismantled.

Hey, but now we get to be excited about new shiny transit plans (usually right before an election) that will cost billions more and take 20 more years to carve out. All because the car lobby screwed us for 60 years.

Cars gave us the freedom to go anywhere. We collectively chose to go down this road by electing people who gutted public transit. Until we take some responsibility on ourselves and make better electoral choices, nothing will change.

What intercity transit? There's like two bus companies and if you're in the GTA you have some GO service. Don't worry though, we're gonna build another highway and talk about some trainlines for the next 15 years.

>Don't worry though, we're gonna build another highway and talk about some trainlines for the next 15 years Relevant clip https://youtu.be/8av3knflbQo?si=mhK6zTrIu6LrFGg6

Ha. That was good. This explains it well. We're the best at high speed rail ^(studies) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqaIJc39ExI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqaIJc39ExI)

Last mile connectivity is shit. Look at west harbour and Hamilton center. I live in Hamilton mountain and always travel to aldershot. It takes more time to go to Hamilton center or west harbour than aldershot. No direct feeder buses, no appropriate timings.

Aldershot is designed and situated for commuters coming in from Ancaster, Waterdown and Hamilton West Mountain. It was never designed primarily for people living in Aldershot. When they built it, Aldershot was shrinking in population. There is a ton of residential construction going into the area that'll be walkable to that station. The problem is that trains are noisy and that line is some of the busiest in North America. The area by those tracks has been industrial forever because people didn't want to live beside the train tracks.

Yes trains are noisy, but so are highways and any of the 1000s of arterial roads across the GTHA for that matter. Noise was never a deciding factor in whether or not walkable communities or last mile trips could be made. Yet we heavily favour highways over trains in Canada despite both of them being noisy. I would argue highways are louder and more consistently louder

I'm explaining why the stretch around Aldershot Go didn't have housing until the past decade. It was all industrial lands and brownfields. FWIW I usually walk to the train.

I think the highway next to the station is a little bit louder than the trains

You'd be surprised, I'm equidistant from the QEW and the tracks. Train noise is lower pitched and carries more. I can usually here the trains starting off from the Go station. More of an issue is then dust from the concrete company off of Plains road or the smells from the abattoir by Appleby. There's a reason why industry and housing should be separated.

Disappointed. The state of our rail infrastructure is absolutely pathetic. The province needs to get off its ass and put more money into infrastructure. They should be leading the charge to get all passenger rail within the province on dedicated lines at the bare minimum, and grade separated on the heaviest used stretches. Go Transit should really be expanded to be province wide. Get it over to Ottawa, get it down to Windsor, get it up to Thunder Bay. Realistically we shouldn't be praying that VIA somehow manages to convince the Feds that Ontario needs enhancements to its rail infrastructure when realistically, that should be job of the Ontario Government to do. And if Ontario were to take on that task, it'd be a lot easier to get those Interprovincial routes up and running because Ontario would have done all the ground work to really take advantage of them.

GO’s mandate only serves the GTHA. Northern Ontario is served by Ontario Northland/Via

Yes, and I'm saying it's stupid that Ontario hasn't used the Talent and experience developed by Metrolinx to work on fixing up rail infrastructure and providing service throughout the rest of the province.

Keep in mind Metrolinx is also in charge of the Eglinton LRT project which is done but not running for some reason. Be careful what you wish for.

Something is still better than absolutely nothing. And most of the issues with Eglington is that they needed to dig a tunnel. The moment you need to decide to dig a tunnel everything gets much more complex, and becomes more liable to fall behind schedule and go over budget, especially when you use tunnel boring machines to do it. Tunnel Boring is just rediculously overkill since you need deeper tunnels, deeper stations, much more robust waterproofing, all when you could do a more shallow cut and cover, just at the expense of tearing up the road/route for a couple years.

> Something is still better than absolutely nothing. It was that kind of thinking that gave Scarborough the SRT instead of LRT in the 1970s/1980s and look at how well that turned out.

As long as we get more rail service I’m happy. GO Train service to Niagara Falls from Union is increasing. Metrolinx has been buying up the track on most/all of its lines to run frequent all-day service. GO lines are being extended further to places like Bowmanville and Confederation (Stoney Creek). Sadly the GO Pilot between Union-London failed but it’s not really surprising considering they only ran one train a day in each direction. The Ontario Northlander train will soon be reinstated between Union and Timmins. Via HFR will also be built soon between Union going to Kingston/Ottawa/Montréal/Québec although I’m skeptical it will get built if a conservative government gets elected next federal election.

It's $50 to go from Barrie to Toronto with Ontario Northland. They are criminal gouging their ridership.

I agree 100%. This is long overdue. We need to get this going yesterday. So many small communities would benefit if we had this implemented. Not to mention the larger cities as well. It would take some pressure off of cities, and allow for people to spread out more. Bringing more industry to smaller towns along the lines. Larger cities would benefit because people could travel more easily.

I may be wrong, but the GO train runs on CN/CR tracks.

Go Transit owns 80% of the rail network it uses. It bought up most of the rail lines. There's no way they can share significantly with freight traffic and offer frequent all day service.

GO owns approximately 80% of their lines. Some of it is on shared CN corridor. That said, the entirety of the Milton Line is owned by CPKC, and the majority of the Richmond Hill Line, parts of the Kitchener Line, and parts of the Lakeshore West Line are owned by CN. https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/go-transit-electrification-metrolinx.20729/page-73 EDIT: The last stretch between Aldershot and Hamilton is also CPKC.

I believe I heard that too. Via Rail defiantly runs on CN/CP whatever the big freight train company is called.

>defiantly

They refuse to run anywhere else.

It runs on CN except for Brockville to Ottawa.

VIA also owns Ottawa to Coteau and Chatham to Windsor

I would happily take a train to Halifax, if it existed.

There is one, it’s run by VIA Rail. It also only runs 3 days per week.

It also leaves from Montreal

It’s called the Ocean

Via Rail in Ottawa needs to improve but it has improved a lot. Needs more frequency and lower prices and to be more reliable but the new rolling stock is nice (of course 60 years behind China)

And if you want to have a night out in Toronto, make sure you're done and back at union for midnight or you may miss the last train. It's way overdue for 24/7 service.

you can take go buses they depart union at about 02:30 am

We really need trains to run all day between cities/towns. If someone has to travel from Kitchener to Stratford, only car seems to be a practical option. That is not good enough.

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You see, when we don't have any connections between towns and only to-from Toronto, then the economy, relationships and life in general is created around that model. We have broken our lifestyle such that we do not need people going from Kitchener to Stratford or any other small town. So to answer your question, there will not be an immediate demand, it will develop over time. And roads don't build themselves. They are created with our tax money and provided for free to everyone, which is why we have no problem expecting roads everywhere, but not transit. We subsidize car travel. Funny thing is, we did not have to build those railways because they already existed. We broke it down and made ourselves dependent. We are on crutches and don't even realize. There is a reason why the town's developed around railways 200 years ago. They were literally called railway towns.

This is why I (as a non-driver) can't move out of toronto. Sure, I can take a go bus to what is technically burlington, but good luck actually getting to my door if I were to live there.

I'm disabled and can not legally drive. I live in Ottawa, where SNOW stops our LRT system. A high-speed rail system from Windsor to Montreal would be a dream. I have met a few people I want to see again, and buses won't do. I've their gotten invitations to help out all types of other people in Ontario cities where a cheap travel ticket, my meds, a cat sitter, and my clean clothes would be all I need.

Why don't you drive? Surely you run in to issues leaving Toronto?

Cars are expensive to own & rent is extremely expensive, so a lot of people in Toronto just don't have cars. I didn't get one until I was 32 because I was able to travel easily around Toronto to get to my job & home again. But having moved further east, I needed one. It wasn't fun to spend hours on a bus where I could drive in 30 minutes to work. That's when money became less important than my time wasted travelling hours each day. But I'm near the GO & TTC service still runs very well in my neighbourhood, (& I use these for local travels). I just couldn't find a way to get to work in a timely manner via the TTC.

yeah there's a certain point where public transit becomes unfeasible, particularly if you have to commute to work. I work from home, so I only need transit for going out for shopping or recreation.

That's the point - I rarely leave Toronto. I mean I could take the train to Kingston or something and that's nice, but if you don't drive you're basically stuck living in a place like Toronto that both has acceptable public transit and walk-able amenities. As for why I don't drive - I never needed to learn how because I was raised here. I just use transit and cabs. Running a car is also quite expensive and that's something I don't need either. Furthermore, I just don't get the appeal of driving. It holds no interest for me.

I live in northern bruce county. We have a customer where I work who moved to northern bruce peninsula municipality in covid times. This customer works from home, is from TO and doesn't drive. This customer lives in the middle of nowhere and is terrified of bears lol. I don't get it, but she somehow makes it work. I don't know how but must be from rides or an extremely expensive cab ride out of wiarton since there's no taxis in Tobermory. But for most people, yeah I can't see why you would need to drive if you live in the largest city in the country, especially if you plan on never leaving.

That's crazy lol. Personally, I love the idea of moving out in the middle of nowhere (i.e. a place with space, air and trees) but I know there's just no way getting around driving if I choose to take that plunge. Who knows? I might some day.

It sucks living in Ottawa with no access to northern Ontario save a deadly mostly two lane highway. It drives me nuts that there isn’t even air travel available without going through Toronto first. Some real bullshit southern Ontario politicians and a lot of gutless ones from the North.

So, since it doesn't pay to fly from Ottawa to Timmins for example, how much must all Canadians pay to subsidize your flight? And to expand that highway?

So since I do t live in Southern Ontario why should I have to pay for your new highway, or the last one, or any of the other major projects. There are other parts of Ontario besides Toronto.

realistically it’s GTHAs massive tax base that subsidizes the rest of Ontario. I say this as someone who lives in a rural area

Sudbury isn’t rural. So why should anyone’s pay any taxes? Why should we part of Ontario even then? Fuck’n this is why EVERYONE in Canada hates you people.

Sudbury is heavily reliant on taxes being paid down south. Look at all the largest employers in the city, other than what remains of the mining industry it’s all government, education and healthcare.

Given the spend per citizen, the north is a drain on the south.

What are you talking about? Where do you think the natural resources are pulled from? Get the fuck out of here.

Ontario doesn't run on timber and ore anymore. Hasn't since Ww2. That is 3 generations ago or more ago. Get a clue.

lol sure buddy. Google “Ring of Fire” and learn a bit more about the province you live in.

Lol I've lived in every part of ON from NW to E, to SW and people are generally clueless about their own back yard unfortunately.

Ontario Northland provides daily bus service between Sudbury and Ottawa.

Oh, intercity travel in this province is something that gets me riled up. From the perspective of someone who travels from Saskatoon to Toronto to Hastings County, it's SHIT. Yet it's also better than it was a year ago now that Rider Express and Flixbus are in the area (I tried taking Rider Express to my hometown a few weeks ago but it sold out well in advance of my trip). Rider Express was very comfortable last time I took it, but I often can't take it because departures from Toronto are at or well before noon which doesn't line up with even the earliest flight from Saskatoon (I realize this is highly specific to my situation but I find it hard to believe that there isn't demand for evening/night buses since these routes run Toronto-Ottawa). The closest city, Belleville, constantly gets overlooked for bus routes (it has like 2 stops per day). The last via train to Belleville is 6:30, which often doesn't align with the flights I need to take (it doesn't help that Saskatoon has THE WORST flight schedules in the country). Need to get east of the GTA after 6:30pm? Good fucking luck. I guess I could take the bus or train to Kingston, but then I need to get a ride from Kingston and for my family to come get me it adds *at least* 1.5h for them. Surprisingly there is a very cost effective inter-village shuttle within Centre Hastings that I might make use of when I can't get a ride to Belleville. As for the rest of the province? I've looked into taking the bus across to the prairies (where I currently live) and you CAN get from Toronto to Saskatoon, but it's way more expensive than flying and the schedules are very limited. You also have to pray for no delays or else you have to spend extra time in Winnipeg (ugh). I've even looked into taking the bus and train for this trip, but it might be the logistically messiest way to do it because the Canadian is so unreliable. I would KILL for better intercity transit in the rest of the province (shit, the whole country). I hate having to rely on my own personal vehicle. I totally get why people in this province are so reluctant to use transit. Complicated logistics are kind of fun for me because I have no life, but I think your average traveller isn't going to put up with this shit. They're going to look at the hoops you have to jump through and the price just to travel 3 hours and be like "I'll just drive."

I also want to give a big middle finger to Lindsay, Ontario for having like zero useful transit outside of that city. I went to Fleming College there and when my car died, I had no way of getting out of town aside from bumming rides to Peterborough or getting a ride from family at the end of the semester. It appears that they still have next to no transport out of that town (if someone can prove me wrong, I'll be impressed). It's been almost 15 years and I'm still mad about being trapped in that stupid town.

Was just going to comment about Lindsay. Went to college there recently and don't have a car, it was infuriating having no good options to get to even Peterborough, the closest city. Baffling that a college town would have no regular intercity transit. Even the college stopped running a shuttle between the Lindsay and Peterborough campuses during COVID and never brought it back. There was some company running a bus to Toronto, but it cost me something like $80+ to go there and back and iirc it only ran 2 days a week.

Damn, I wish they had a shuttle between Lindsay/Peterborough when I was a student there. That would've been huge. I took that coach bus into Toronto once and it was such a waste of money. I tried it for the day and you only got like 5 hours in the city. Even the city transit was ass when I was a student. The city buses didn't run before 8am (but classes started at 8) and I spent a year complaining to the mayor about it until they finally changed the schedules to start at 7am. Like, the College is a major part of that city and they just don't give a shit about the students at all.

I remember that bus used to be 50 bucks from Haliburton to Toronto and it was running 5 or 6? Days a week. One of the stops was in Lindsay

There basically isn't any unless you count Via, which is dogshit and too expensive for humans

It blows my mind there was a streetcar service between Toronto and Guelph many years ago. Many more places too I imagine.

Intercity transit, like all transit, just isn't yet a priority in Canada ... so what we have is (to put it mildly) substandard. There is growing realization that more transit is essential, unfortunately the issue's politicized, so nothing's being done. There's also private industry acting through party influence ... attempting to siphon what little transit money there is into their accounts, and delivering little. At some point, Canada will learn from countries like Spain that do have good transit, and do know how to maintain and enhance their transit networks. Perhaps our kids kids will see improvement.

I guess it’s intercity… if you consider the GTA to be all of Ontario’s cities… I live in KW. In any other civilized country, I’d expect to reliably hop on a bus or train, and get to the main airports nearby, and main cities. Try to get from KW to the following places: - Pearson airport - Hamilton - Hamilton Airport - Brantford - London - Kingston - Niagara Falls - Windsor - Ottawa Let me know what you think of intercity transport 😂

I know what you mean but for the hell of it here's what I have: >Pearson airport Weekdays: Take the Kitchener GO Train to Bramalea GO. Then take the 115 Brampton Transit Southbound bus from Bramalea to Pearson. Weekends/Alternate: Take the 30 GO bus (runs at least once an hour if not more) from Kitchener GO or the major universities to Bramalea GO. Then, like above, take the 115 to Pearson. > Hamilton Weekdays: Take the 17 GO bus (runs hourly). Weekends: This one is a bit more wasteful - catch the 25 GO bus (runs roughly every 30 minutes). from Laurier or UofW and take it Square One . From there transfer to the 40 or the 47 GO bus (both run every 30 minutes) which both go to downtown Hamilton. > Brantford Weekdays: Take the 17 GO Bus to Aldershot, transfer to the 15 GO bus (runs hourly) to Brantford Weekends: Take the 25 GO Bus and transfer to the 47 GO bus (not 40) to McMaster. At McMaster transfer to the 15 GO Bus. The 15 runs less frequent on weekends, roughly every 2 hours. > London Besides the crappy VIA train that serves Kitchener like twice a day, Flixbus has service to London that stops in the Kitchener area. > Kingston > Ottawa Weekdays: Take the GO train from Kitchener to Union Station, then take a VIA train (or megabus?) from there Weekends: Take the 30, transfer to Bramalea, take the train from Bramalea to union and take a VIA train or Megabus. > Niagara Falls Weekdays: Take the 17 GO bus, step off at Aldershot and either grab the Niagara GO train, or, if you want more frequent service, take the train one stop east from Aldershot and transfer to the 12. Weekends: Take the 25 to Square One, then transfer to the 40/47 to Dundas/Hwy 407 Carpool. From there take the 12 GO bus (which runs once an hour from that location) to Niagara.

I mean damn - I didn’t expect you to put in all that work. But basically, Pearson has a couple of options - there are private buses for example - but you need to get down to Sportsworld Go to use them (and they don’t use the Go station - you’d expect a platform available for private companies, rather than “by the dumpster behind McDonald’s) Definitely some of the destinations have not bad options - but think of Brantford: - First I need to get to a Go station in Waterloo - Then to Aldershot - Then wait up to an hour for the Brantford bus Imagine trying to use that method to say, take transit for work if my car broke down, or something like that. I’d ideally think there’d be Go buses running along at least the major highways, at least hourly - but ideally at least every 30 minutes. Until then, I don’t think it’s plausible to rely on it.

As someone who grew up there and now lives in Switzerland, I can easily sum it up in a word: Pathetic.

As a Canadian, Switzerland is tiny and happens to lay astride major trade routes for the entire continent. It is an apples to coconut comparison.

As a Canadian, I have to disagree with you on two points. First, southern Ontario is roughly the same size as Switzerland and is a hub for transportation of raw materials to our southern neighbor. Second, we’re discussing public transportation, not industrial, and if one looks at the development of the Swiss railway network, it’s clear to see that the movement of people held at least equal priority as goods. Indeed, there are still lines that are over 100 years old that service only people, despite attempts to convert them to bus services (thank you direct democracy).

Talks about transit in Ontario but only talks about Toronto... Lol Toronto and Ottawa have the best transit systems in Ontario the rest struggles to compete to come near. Sudbury transit is a disaster.

I would argue that Sudbury Transit (Gova) isn't as bad as some would believe. When I went to Ottawa, almost all my buses were late and schedules were a huge mess. At least in Sudbury the schedules make sense and late buses are relatively rare. However, implementing presto to /Sudbury Transit/Gova would be great! Something we definitely need.

Yah kindling me? It was way better before they changed it. Three bussed to get anywhere in the south end is insane. Outskirts had better schedules before the change, Chelmsford got better day schedules but sucks at night. To get to Falconbridge you can't get to a certain point unless it's between 11-4 because the bus doesn't run up Falconbridge after that time.... The schedule is fine if you're in town and live on a main route, the routes do not make sense. Why does a bus that goes to cambo go to boreal then in the dunny like that's a long route.

Aroused. 

You have to build *intra*city transit before *inter*city transit can improve substantially, which I think was what you were talking about. Being able to travel between cities is a nice to have, but you need to be able to travel within your own city first. Otherwise the intercity transit becomes kind of pointless because when you get to your new city, you can't go anywhere without a car, like you said. This is why GO Transit primarily takes you to Union Station; it's taking you to a city with good (relatively) intracity transit (TTC).

There definitely needs to be more Intercity links to the Go lines. Yes the Go lines are for getting to and from major cities, but we need to expand on that with more local transit options to and from these hubs. This is just another example of how car dominance hurts communities. If cities were build with pedestrians, cyclists and transit at the forefront, we would all be much better off. Instead we are seeing the ramifications of cars being the main focus. Things are getting better. But we need to keep that momentum going. Demand more accessibility. Not everyone should be driving. Communities need to develop more transit.

It’s inefficient.

There’s local transit… plus there’s go buses at these stations taking ppl through the inner city….. mayb advocate for more frequent local service, I think that would improve the quality of service

Indeed was researching why public transport sucks for a research paper, and found tons of interesting information. There’s a paper published in 2008 about the future of public transit for the next decade, including things like LRT and intercity transit with hubs and stuff. More than a decade later nothing significant has been done. Same as it ever was. If anyone’s interested I’ll provide my sources

Leaves a lot to be desired. I don't have a car and I have to get really creative to reach the last mile.

There is more to intercity transit than the gta or wanting to go into/out of Toronto or the go train. Simcoe county has its own intercity transit for instance which while not fantastic is actually used by people working in some of the auto plants in Allison for instance. Also to get to wasaga beach from Barry for what it’s worth :p

Along the 401 where ViaRail is an option, it's good. Anywhere else? Ha.

Non existent south of London

Uh, what intercity transit? Theres nothing there to feel anything about.

Its slow, infrequent and frankly not worth using where I live. I used to take transit to college every day, it took about 2 hours and 15 mins or so each way. Now when I drive to the area it takes 45 mins. If I still had that daily commute, I'd be saving 3 hours a day just for driving instead of taking GO and other transit, not even counting the fact that I had to arrive at college 35 mins early because that was the only bus route available to me

It's the shits.... Especially when you get out of the GTA.

I feel that the (almost always southeast Asian) people talking in the quiet areas of the train are annoying as fuck. Just go downstairs and talk -- it's not difficult to behave like the world doesn't revolve around you.

Effectively nonexistent south of the French River

It’s crap

[125 years ago](https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/72821594/1892-charming-antique-railway-map-of?show_sold_out_detail=1&ref=nla_listing_details) the intercity transit in the province was amazing.

>If someone wants to go to Toronto, to see a concert, and have some drinks (and maybe some other stuff). They either require a sober friend to drive them to and from the station or need to abstain since the car part of the equation has not been removed from the transit. Some stations are going to be catering to park and ride. others are not. Aldershot and Bloomington are two examples that are. and they always will be. they are in the greenbelt.

As bad as you may say it is, it's better than Winnipeg

We have some out here on the west coast but while cheap they're far from convenient. Best case you're looking a day's travel for what by car would be an hour and a half

^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^lordjakir: *We have some out here* *On the west coast but while cheap* *They're far from convenient* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.

The fact that there aren't any direct routes between Hamilton and Kitchener-Waterloo is ridiculous. I understand laying new train tracks is a nightmare, but there aren't even any bus routes. It's about an hour's drive from Hamilton to Kitchener. GO bus from Hamilton to Kitchener GO is 2 hours 50 minutes. GO train is 4 HOURS!

Clear that greed feeds the pricing and hockey no longer a game enjoyed by the working class they simply can’t afford it

> GO trains and buses are definitely useful to get in and out of Toronto for big events (sports, music etc). But I have found it really lacking to get just about anywhere else. Exactly this. I live in London. The only trains to Toronto take 2:30. For reference, if we had the high-speed trains that France was using back in the 1960s, we could get from London to Toronto in less than an hour. If we had the top-of-the-line maglev trains (like the one they are building from Tokyo to Nagoya), we could be there in less than half an hour. There are very few of them. They are expensive. And they are often full. You must book in advance unless you want to travel in business class and pay over $100 each way. They are always delayed. And there are no trains to any of the lake towns or any destination not on the Windsor-Toronto corridor (no Niagara or Muskoka for example). The main cause of ll of these issues is that VIA doesn't own the tracks. The only active tracks are the CN cargo tracks. This means that we can only ride passenger trains to places with cargo needs. We have to pay high prices when we rent the tracks. And we cannot use fast trains.

Here’s NJB’s response for ya: https://youtu.be/vxWjtpzCIfA?si=DrdKbX8iLJ8UIpuz

Slow speed limits for rail

There should be one Go line that wraps around Toronto in a circle connecting all the burbs - Markham, Richmond Hill, Brampton, Mississauga etc. Of course this won’t happen for like 200 years lol

There are a number of GO buses that do these connections mostly using Highway 407: Routes 41 (Hamilton-Pickering) and 56 (Oshawa-Oakville) do this and run pretty frequently. There's also been talks about building a transitway beside the 407.

Good to know! Thank you

The only option to go a few hours north of Toronto is one bus line that costs $100. Awful.

It was designed to get cars off the highway heading into Toronto during commuting hours. And it has yet to be improved to the point that it's good at doing much else. I won't complain too much, as it's still a standout transit system compared the absolute waste land that is BC after the Greyhound left. If I still lived there, I don't know what I'd do compared to how I can navigate Ontario as a non-driver. But I really hope we continue to see improvements. GO could be so much more than what it is now.

Fast inter community transit outside the horseshoe sucks. We need proper Ontario wide go trains. Not just the scrap Kitchener has and the doomed to fail line they offered London. I know London and surrounding communities/counties have started inter community travel but even they are limited and are dependent on weather, traffic, and other congestion points that can make them a worse option than just driving. Especially if the stop isn't near where you need to go and transport in the city doesn't exist.

I did, a few new mines in the NW ontario bush held up by local first nations. They will build a road, maybe a town and 30 years once it is played out it will back to the bush.

Let's start with smaller passenger vans going on a fixed schedule between smaller communities. For example, between Orangeville and Guelph. As people see that there is an option for transit, they will start to use it. Later, as demand picks up, mini buses could be used then buses. There is no point purchasing costly large busses and having them run empty and burning through an organizations cash. A transit organization could put on their website or app asking passengers what routes they should be servicing. For example, maybe there are many commuters going from Orangeville to Elora, a transit organization that could test the market by offering mini van or mini bus service. These small vans or mini buses could offer services from smaller communities to larger Go Transit hubs.

Nearly non existent where my cousin lives in thunder Bay. She's jealous of yall in southern ontario

I've been working on a plan to go on a bikepacking trip in the summer in northern Ontario and the main sticking point for me is getting up there. I have a car and can drive but that means my route has to be a loop instead of a point to point one and I'm leaving my car there for the length of the trip. GO can only take me as far as Barrie and Via only goes 2 days a week. Ontario Northland does seem better with schedules but I also have to put my bike in a box for them to carry it which means I can't ride it to the bus. It's a reasonable ask on their part because they don't want my bike to get messed up when other bags are thrown on it, but it still makes things more difficult. I may end up just doing two one-way car rentals.

It's not just Ontario. Intercity travel policy in this country is an absolutely abysmal dumpster fire failure everywhere outside of *maybe* southern Ontario. Once Greyhound left, the vast majority of rural towns in this country were left with exactly zero intercity transit options of any kind. Consider that a solution to this problem in Saskatchewan was to give taxi vouchers to rural residents who need to travel to access healthcare. GL if you're travelling for any other reason. Consider that it took **multiple missing and murdered Indigenous women** in BC, for the provincial government to finally get around to funding a handful of bus routes that run twice a week. Isn't it embarrassing that multiple people had to die, for a government in a G7 country to even entertain the 'need' for the most austere of services like that?

Ontario also loves its ugly strip malls, which are so car centric and not transit or people friendly. I would love to see a Canada with great public transit! I think people would be more social if they didn’t always have to drive everywhere.

What intercity transit? In Ottawa intercity transit means municipal transit to Gatineau or one of the several discount busses or VIA along the 401 corridor. Good luck using transit to one of the surrounding communities west and east of the city.

Lollll it sounds like your major problem isn’t transit, it’s not having sober friends 

I take VIA rail from Stratford frequently.

As someone who lives in London, I’m pissed off at CN Rail for not doing any construction on the tracks. I’m also pissed off at them cancelling GO Train service here because “there wasn’t any demand” — NO SHIT, IT WAS ONLY 1-2 YEARS AFTER COVID!! AND THE TIMES WERE SHIT ANYWAY.

My favourite experience was taking Go to Niagara Falls from Toronto during Covid when the direct strain was closed. Bus dropped us off at the station in an area where every place looked like a crack house. Building across the street was abandoned with its windows smashed and zero employees lol. Uber took 15 minutes to get us out of there, there was no other way. During the day it was just a shock, at night in sure it would have felt worse.

There needs too be more of it

In Ottawa which would pretty much default have the best options outside of the GTHA and it's horrible tbh. Entire passenger routes are gone since I was a kid, used to be a direct via route to Sudbury now they not only stopped it but ripped out the line lol, expecting us to go to via Toronto 😂😭 The silver lining is buses to big cities got a lot better after Greyhound folded, that monopoly was a nightmare. They're not that expensive and there are way more options. But in general I would like to see a high speed train or something and a real ramping up of the train connections and bus connections to smaller cities and towns. We are such a spread out country, I get that makes infrastructure tougher but it's also way more beneficial if we do get it. I also have to do the unthinkable and actually give Ford some credit, he increased Ontario Northland funding and I believe brought some Northern rail lines back into service. Never should have been taken for granted, the North deserves better.

It’s a flaming turd sandwich.

I wish we had regular train service like Via used to do. We’re in London, my stepdaughters are in Sudbury and the lack of via means we rarely get to go up because I don’t own a car. If regular train service that wasn’t just twice a day ran London to Toronto I’d be more inclined to go to a Jays game, or the ROM or the AGO. The government’s attempt at Go service to London was a complete joke. You could drive from London downtown Toronto in about half the time of the GO train because they were sharing tracks with CNKCS and CNKCS had priority because they were their tracks. I mean, even just add a GO bus that stops at Wellington and the 401. Or plan for it when LTC rapid transit is completed. (If it’s completed because this is London and they start something and then stop it for no good reason after screwing it up.)

2 hour bus ride from Guelph to Toronto because no trains on the weekend. It takes 1 hour or less by car

Oakville Go is an exception as the local transit radiates from that location.

Intercity transit is about as reliable as a dollar store condom.

Pretty bad, overall. Ontario, Canada really, is so car centric. Cars are fun, but it's logistically dumb, let alone for the environment and economy. The problem is we often *only* compare to the US. On that front, we are 'better' than many areas in the US, maybe, but compared to say, much of Europe, Japan, South Korea, even parts of South America and Asia, we are just bad. We planned for cars in the 1950s and 1960s, and have barely moved away from it. Via Rail is rather sad, if you've ever taken a train in Europe or Asia. It's like the 1970s never left. GO trains and busses are OKish in some regards, but as mentioned, they kind of only exist to shuttle people INTO and OUT OF Toronto at rush hours. They do not really do much else well, and even that one main thing is debatable. I am old enough to remember the time before Markham, Vaughn, Richmond Hill and so on were abysmally connected... not at all, really. Those are better. It's possible to take GO to many places in southern Ontario, but you're very much on *their* schedule, not an actual schedule as it would be understand in much of the rest of the world.

None of the Go trains are worth a damn. They're so slow. Metrolinx limits speed to 93km/h when the trains are capable of going 140+km/h. They claim it's due to the tracks being older and I call bullshit. Via Rail travels at top speed, which is faster than 93km/h. We need high speed rail yesterday. For what is supposed to be a "World Class City", Toronto (and Ontario) transit options are fucking garbage.

Aldershot Go is a joke. Burlington Go is better but still lacking. Public transit is designed by people who don't need to use it. I've given up and just use Uber.

Roughly half the entire population of Ontario is within the reach of the Go network. You can go from Niagara Falls to Barrie or the Kawarthas (Peterborough). I’d argue that’s pretty fantastic and probably the extent that is economically viable to the extent people would be willing to pay for it/subsidize it through taxes. As for local transit to get to and from the stations or why there’s nothing to do near them, that’s a wholly separate issue from the question you initially asked. Ask your local council about that.

Reachable and usable in a practical way are two very different things. As for local council, yes.. to some extent but then try transferring from yrt viva to either Newmarket or Aurora go easily (or better see the connectivity between yrt and Bloomington go). They don’t talk to each other exactly nor do they always cooperate

Because it’s the fucking country dumbass. Everyone out that way has a fucking car. There should be no expectation of public transit outside major metropolitan areas. You are simply out of touch with reality. They don’t build that kind of infrastructure if there is no need for it. If you live up here you have or have access to a car. That’s all there is to it. Have a good one.

OPs question was specific to GO transit, which is in the GTA. If you know anything about the GTA, you’d understand that most of it is not the fucking country, dumbass.

Railways were built to serve industries and move freight. Let’s put a heavy rail line down your street so you can get there faster. /s

Because of car culture.  This video gets into it.  https://youtu.be/vxWjtpzCIfA?si=R21_FCqjtS1Kdnes

For myself personally? I'm fine with my options. For major cities, I can travel to them via VIA; and for everything else... I have my car (when it's not in the shop). But I also realize I'm in an incredibly privileged position of having a car, being in a city where we have access to a VIA line, and also am able to afford either option. The options otherwise kinda suck.