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480 BST is terrible in a world of pseudo legendaries, legendaries, and mythicals, sure
but like it’s not THAT bad. there are no evo poiemon / FE pokemon with worse
But better typing, ability and movepool, Pokémon with 480 BST can perform good, with some individual stats can make an impact, something Glalie lacks.
And with Pokémon GameFreak expected us to use I was excluding intentionally bad pokes such as Delibird or Luvdisc.
You didn’t have to use luvdisc for it to be useful when it originally came it, you’d farm wild ones to steal heart scales and be able to relearn level up moves with them. In some cases that was the only way to get certain moves because a Pokémon would have a certain move in its level up moveset only after evolving but then would be too high level to ever get access to it otherwise.
I guess they must have felt bad because they gave snorunt a 2nd form of evolution into Froslass the very next gen haha. The only reason I remember Glalie is because you had to fight multiple in the elite 4 and I spent a lot of time grinding levels there tbh.
Swellow, Hariyama, Medicham, Manectric, Sharpedo and more all have worse—do you think GF didn’t intend any of those be used?
a flat distribution is generally not good, for sure. pure ice type is definitely a huge hindrance. if he had shifted some to speed and spatk (things you’d expect glalie to be good at) it could have been a lot better
Have you ever got the felling that someone made such dumb, contradictory and redundant argument that isn't even worth to discuss further?
Because I'm having it right now.
Nou exactly, but the ones you mentioned may have worse stat total, but get better value from them by a better spread, movepool and given literally anything but Bug/Grass is better than pure Ice, typing.
You said it yourself, Glalie could work if had a proper stat distribution, something it doesn't have and partly of why it doesn't work. That's probably why Froslass exists, has the same stat totals, but some where relocated to Sp. Atk and Speed. Seems familiar?
Is not fast, It can't hit hard outside of Explosion, Is not particularly bulky, anything Glalie can do, is done way better by a butt load of pokes.
80 highest offense is worse than 87% of fully evolved pokemon.
80/80/80 bulk is worse than 64% of fully evolved pokemon, assuming full investment in HP.
80 speed is just under the median of fully evolved pokemon.
Ice is a shit type.
Its movepool isn't notable.
It is THAT bad.
indeed—sorry if my phrasing was poor, I was saying there are pokémon without evolutions (no evo pokémon), as well as fully evolved pokémon (FE pokémon), that have worse BSTs. like your example
Manectric. Not forgettable, average. A perfect example of the sum of all Pokemon. The design isn’t lazy or boring, but it’s not awful. It is a dog, a common Pokémon design inspiration, and fairly average size, not small, not large. Its stats and battle prowess certainly aren’t noteworthy, but it is not awfully weak. It has a mega that improves it, but doesn’t really change it, just gives it more of what it already has. It is not elevated the same way that mawhile, sableye, or some other average gen 3 Pokemon is by its mega. It also doesn’t fail the same way glalie and abomasnow do. Manectric doesn’t amount to a modicum of excellence, yet it fails to disappoint expectations. It is truly, mid.
Manectric is actually my favorite Pokémon from my kid days. Always will have a fondness for it!
But yeah I see your point. It doesn’t excel and it doesn’t fail. It just performs fine.
Always have one on my Hoenn play through though.
For Gen 4, my go to for water type is Gyarados or Milotic. I used Milotic for Brilliant Diamond most recently. Milotic is probably one of my favourite designed Pokemon.
I actually hate manectrics design. Idk what it is. And its mega is even worse for me. Obviously this is just my opinion on it but its whole line is just bad. Like I only ever catch that line for the pokedex and never to use on my team.
When I read the title, Manectric was the first one to come to mind, but then I thought "actually manectric is probably the most MEDIOCRE pokemon." the AVERAGE pokemon is more interesting than manectric.
it should be easy for a designer to make an electric canine look cool. but manectric has a boring color scheme, and a boring facial expression. the shape of its head looks stupid, maybe it's the lack of proper ears?
it's not OFFENSIVELY bad like Rhyperior or Simipour, it's just a waste of space. I think its mega evolution is a bit more interesting but it's still a boring pokemon. It's the kind of fakemon I'd expect somebody to make when asked to make an electric dog
Yeah that was bizarre, I feel like an electric greyhound should have been an easy home run. I was really hyped since it was obvious yamper would turn into a greyhound, then they gave us THAT.
>it's not OFFENSIVELY bad like Rhyperior
I will never understand the amount of hate Rhyperior gets. Not that it matters either way, because it's all down to personal preference at the end of the day, but I just don't see what it is that's so detestable about it.
Manectric's gen 3 sprite and sprite colors are actually really cool imo. But theres something about the slight shift in gen 4 and beyond that makes it look average to me after that lol. Especially gen 6 and beyond.
Dewgong
OK design, Bland and mediocre stats, typing is shared by multiple other pokemon (including 2 from the same generation), no interesting signature move or ability, doesn't really have a huge prominent appearance in any game
Yeah Dewgong is just poor man's Lapras. I tried using it in a playthrough once just to try it out and I still got bored with it and swapped it. It could really benefit from a signature move like you say, and maybe a more interesting ability.
Someone made a list of all stat averages and most were right around 70. Attack was a little higher speed was lower.
Basically Castform is perfect. If you build it for a specific weather, it is a little better than average during that type of weather, and probably a little worse than average when another hits. With no weather at all it is very mid.
I feel like it should gain like a stat buff when a specific weather activates, coupled with some sort of team benefit when Castform is on the field during that kind of weather.
Assuming it ever gets a sandstorm form (which it more than likely never will but here's to hoping), I'd say make it a Fast Physical Pokémon in Sunny Form, a Bulky Physical Pokémon in Sandy Form, a Fast Special Pokémon in Snowy Form, and a Bulky Special Pokémon in Rainy Form.
If we put in a line all the different pokemon and their different formes/looks, as there's about a billion different Spinda, it'll also be the median pokemon.
You mean the Pokémon who GF admitted cannot be brought over to the last few gens bc of the sheer amount of spot pattern possibilities? My precious dizzy son
But then the remaining part is really good with Corviknight, Skarmory, Gliscor, Landorus, Dragonite, Pelipper. Then we also have that giga broken Mega Ray 🫣
Fun fact: the only fully-evolved pure Flying-Type Pokémon is Tornadus, while the only other two are the NFE Rookidee and Corvisquire. That's why I get upset when people say "There's only nine type combinations that have yet to be created!" As though a lot of other type combos aren't extremely underrepresented. You can't just make the only fully-evolved Bug/Ground Pokémon be Sand Cloak Wormadam and say "Job's a gooden!" No! Job is _not_ a gooden!
Octillary is great in Colosseum. Highest SpA of all available Water types, only one to get Ice Beam via level up, and one of only five available Pokémon that can learn Fire Blast
I agree, Octillery is a bold choice to use for this example. The only thing about it that bothers me is the remoraid evolution, but other than that Octillery is awesome.
I mean, the scrapped beta concepts from the Space world GS demo make it more obvious that the Remoraid and Octillery line was based on guns and tank cannons, but there's still elements of a revolver triggerfish in Remoraid and Octillery having its mouth be an extended cannon and the signature move Octazooka,just heavily toned down. This also makes Mantine based on WW2 aircraft with an underside gunner cannon technically.
Liepard, it’s a mono dark type in a game filled with other dark types, it has fairly forgettable design + average stats (other than speed), only interesting thing about it is that it has prankster
Average stat-wise but still a really cool, unique concept and clever name that's fun to say. In GSC it's a great addition to your team with high attack and defense and very early rock slide.
Really underrated in GSC. Sudowoodo was a shiny hunt I did about a year ago in crystal and used it on my team all the way through. Pure rock type with great moves and wins again Lance's dragonites
Yeah, I always ignored it until my last playthrough and was surprised how great it was. 100 attack and 115 defense is fantastic before the 4th gym, and while it has a very limited movepool, it still has everything you need. Strength, rock slide, low kick, dig and that thing will do work.
I feel like Whiscash is definitely among the most average mons, especially in comparison to its fellow Water/Ground mons that excel in particular roles.
Sure, it's got that great typing. But all of its non-HP stats are not quite high enough to be noteworthy while also not low enough to make it unusable.
It has respectable bulk on both sides, but lacks the reliable recovery that allows Quagsire and Gastrodon to actually stay in for much longer. It can run both physical and special attacks, but never hits hard enough without the aid of items or boosts.
None of its abilities are particularly useful but can still be beneficial in very niche situations. Anticipation can warn it of an opponent having a Grass-type attack, Oblivious protects it from Intimidate and Taunts that would prevent it from using Dragon Dance, etc.
Even its design is in the awkward middle of being derpy enough to have Quagsire's charm and cool enough to have Swampert's popularity.
The Bidoof / Bibarel Slander
It can literally use a vast majority of the Gen 4 HMs and gets STAB on all of the HMs it can learn but one of them, it's at least a very efficient HM Slave.
I use lumineon exclusively cause I do not tire of it's battle cry. Also because I can Soak + U-turn into a grass or electric type for any baddies I'm having trouble with.
There's nothing average about Octillery's name or design... maybe it's stats?
but if we're talking overall, and not just game stat specific, then I guess we'd have to go with a normal type.. something entirely average, like Furret or Stantler.
Made a video on this, but its, in my opinion, Seaking. Water is one of the most common typings in the game, and Seaking has a nearly average stat spread. Not only is Seaking's stat spread average, but its deviation from the average is also incredibly average. Seaking also has some of the most common abilites in the game (I think swift swim is the most common ability), and is really just a fish, one of the most common things for just any pokemon to be.
Flygon, unfortunately. Dope design, absolute mid as fuck stats. All 80 except attack (100) and speed (100).
I hate it because I adore flygon. But yeah, he's mid.
This was my answer too. Flygon is formidable enough in general but is much worse than most dragons because they are usually psuedo-legendaries and is outclassed by Garchomp. It didn't get a mega and only really stands out because of what it isn't (a bug).
Only stands out for incredible design, nothing else. Unfortunate, really. Dude should be a goated pokemon imo. He's just as hard to evolve as the elite tier ones, so what gives?
I mean now as you said, after like 20 years of power creep. Back in its release gen its ranked OU. Its (was) really fucking good, not even sightly average
Pikachu - I tried using one in Fire Red and it was so pathetic I wondered how Ash was winning battles with the one in the anime, lol. Promoting it to Raichu didn't make it any better.
Getting a light ball for it helps (increases its atk, sp.atk and speed) but it's still a glass cannon. More fun in newer games with a more expanded movepool.
Even though it's my favorite, probably Exploud. Amazing movepool, extremely mid stats, normal type, meh abilities.
And Gamefreak keeps snubbing it even though it should have been a pick for Team Yell and Team Star
Poliwrath. Works for so many rolls, but doesn't really work WELL for any of them. Just about any situation you would use a Poliwrath for, other Pokemon do better, but it can still fill the role.
I think the only time it ever had a standout presence was LGPE OU, and that was a weird time in general...
At least Octillery can pull Moody or Trick Room/Sniper stuff.
Glameow, probably? Just because I’ve been playing Platinum for the first time over the last two weeks and have fought countless Plasma grunts with Glameows, but I only realized last night when reading the name tag that it wasn’t Liepard.
Probably one of my favorites, but Pelipper. Shared typing with Gyarados, so it's often overlooked. Love the design, love the movepool, but it just isn't incredible.
Yeah, it's awesome defense and sp.atk is totally let down by a terrible sp.def and very average speed. Throw in the double weakness to electric (which is more special-leaning) and yeah it has its problems.
Carnivine. Most people don't even know this pokemon exists lol. It basically only gets grass moves, except maybe crunch and sludgebomb. Stats are kinda blah. Interesting design is about all it has going for it.
Probably a hot take, but Pikachu. I'm glad they've started to put the spotlight on Eevee more, but I wish they would have made Eevee the mascot in the first place. Pikachu's design is just so meh to me. Not bad, not great, just ok.
Gen 1 starters easily they have average stats and excel at not much honestly lmfao. Probably the most spread out stats among starters especially venasaur and Blastoise
Crobat.
Easy to obtain. Okay stats. Surprisingly amazing defensively with three quad resistances and an immunity.
Has never seen NU, but it's been like Pretty Okay in the lower tiers it generally finds itself in.
It has a few sets it can run. Choice Band sets with Brave Bird and U-Turn are effective as well as Stallbreaking sets with Taunt/Roost.
Even has special Nasty Plot sets if you're insane.
Crobat is the most solidly average Pokémon ever.
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Glalie. my bro literally got 80 base in every stat
It looks like it wants to evolve too
Well it did mega evolve
Yeah but it has to break its mouth to do that
Dislocating your jaw for a strength bonus is epic though
Plus it grew a beard
Lol. #unfinishedbusiness 🤣
That's not average, but terrible Is on the run for WORST Pokémon GameFreak expected us to actually use.
480 BST is terrible in a world of pseudo legendaries, legendaries, and mythicals, sure but like it’s not THAT bad. there are no evo poiemon / FE pokemon with worse
But better typing, ability and movepool, Pokémon with 480 BST can perform good, with some individual stats can make an impact, something Glalie lacks. And with Pokémon GameFreak expected us to use I was excluding intentionally bad pokes such as Delibird or Luvdisc.
You didn’t have to use luvdisc for it to be useful when it originally came it, you’d farm wild ones to steal heart scales and be able to relearn level up moves with them. In some cases that was the only way to get certain moves because a Pokémon would have a certain move in its level up moveset only after evolving but then would be too high level to ever get access to it otherwise.
Exactly, Ludvisc wasn't even mean to be use in battle, but they expect us to use Glalie.
I guess they must have felt bad because they gave snorunt a 2nd form of evolution into Froslass the very next gen haha. The only reason I remember Glalie is because you had to fight multiple in the elite 4 and I spent a lot of time grinding levels there tbh.
Swellow, Hariyama, Medicham, Manectric, Sharpedo and more all have worse—do you think GF didn’t intend any of those be used? a flat distribution is generally not good, for sure. pure ice type is definitely a huge hindrance. if he had shifted some to speed and spatk (things you’d expect glalie to be good at) it could have been a lot better
Have you ever got the felling that someone made such dumb, contradictory and redundant argument that isn't even worth to discuss further? Because I'm having it right now.
Sorry, did I list a bunch of pokemon with amazing typings and movepools?
Nou exactly, but the ones you mentioned may have worse stat total, but get better value from them by a better spread, movepool and given literally anything but Bug/Grass is better than pure Ice, typing. You said it yourself, Glalie could work if had a proper stat distribution, something it doesn't have and partly of why it doesn't work. That's probably why Froslass exists, has the same stat totals, but some where relocated to Sp. Atk and Speed. Seems familiar? Is not fast, It can't hit hard outside of Explosion, Is not particularly bulky, anything Glalie can do, is done way better by a butt load of pokes.
My man, calm down, we're literally talking about a video game made for children.
80 highest offense is worse than 87% of fully evolved pokemon. 80/80/80 bulk is worse than 64% of fully evolved pokemon, assuming full investment in HP. 80 speed is just under the median of fully evolved pokemon. Ice is a shit type. Its movepool isn't notable. It is THAT bad.
Stat distribution and typing are way more important than raw BST, just compare Clodsire and Hoopa Unbound
It wasn't bad in Gen 3. In Gen 9, when even stuff like Snorlax who was once top tier OU has issues, it's pretty damn bad.
Furret has a BST of 415
indeed—sorry if my phrasing was poor, I was saying there are pokémon without evolutions (no evo pokémon), as well as fully evolved pokémon (FE pokémon), that have worse BSTs. like your example
oh, i mustn’t have understood you properly
No worries I see how my phrasing of “no evo” may have been misconstrued
Ok, but consider this: Moody.
He’s too ugly, and Pokémon Ranger made me hate him :(
Glalie is adorable How dare you
Manectric. Not forgettable, average. A perfect example of the sum of all Pokemon. The design isn’t lazy or boring, but it’s not awful. It is a dog, a common Pokémon design inspiration, and fairly average size, not small, not large. Its stats and battle prowess certainly aren’t noteworthy, but it is not awfully weak. It has a mega that improves it, but doesn’t really change it, just gives it more of what it already has. It is not elevated the same way that mawhile, sableye, or some other average gen 3 Pokemon is by its mega. It also doesn’t fail the same way glalie and abomasnow do. Manectric doesn’t amount to a modicum of excellence, yet it fails to disappoint expectations. It is truly, mid.
Manectric gets flamethrower, which doesn't counter its weakness but is dope as hell.
It does cover grass types that resist electric though, and that's sorta nice
And steel too, magnetites and Magnetons in the ruby/sapphire era got a sweet surprise
Unfortunately manectric didn't receive fire moves until gen 4
Which was what you are mostly worried about because HP Ice and out speed almost any ground
Manectric is actually my favorite Pokémon from my kid days. Always will have a fondness for it! But yeah I see your point. It doesn’t excel and it doesn’t fail. It just performs fine. Always have one on my Hoenn play through though.
Same here, it’s on the average hoenn team, just like luxray, floatzel, and staraptor in gen 4
Huh, I never used Floatzel myself. I just am not fond of the design. Can confirm I usually used Staraptor and Luxray though.
I like floatzel's design a lot, but it can be really frail. Gastrodon has performed better for me on average, but I hate its design.
For Gen 4, my go to for water type is Gyarados or Milotic. I used Milotic for Brilliant Diamond most recently. Milotic is probably one of my favourite designed Pokemon.
I keep Manectric in a Quick Ball. That's the perfect Pokéball for it. Do you do the same?
Same!
I actually hate manectrics design. Idk what it is. And its mega is even worse for me. Obviously this is just my opinion on it but its whole line is just bad. Like I only ever catch that line for the pokedex and never to use on my team.
> its mega A bit over the top, ever for mega standards.
It's the weird little holes where the ears should be for me...
When I read the title, Manectric was the first one to come to mind, but then I thought "actually manectric is probably the most MEDIOCRE pokemon." the AVERAGE pokemon is more interesting than manectric. it should be easy for a designer to make an electric canine look cool. but manectric has a boring color scheme, and a boring facial expression. the shape of its head looks stupid, maybe it's the lack of proper ears? it's not OFFENSIVELY bad like Rhyperior or Simipour, it's just a waste of space. I think its mega evolution is a bit more interesting but it's still a boring pokemon. It's the kind of fakemon I'd expect somebody to make when asked to make an electric dog
You say Electric Canine should be an easy design to work with— but they had another shot with Boltund and I find that somehow less interesting.
Yeah that was bizarre, I feel like an electric greyhound should have been an easy home run. I was really hyped since it was obvious yamper would turn into a greyhound, then they gave us THAT.
>it's not OFFENSIVELY bad like Rhyperior I will never understand the amount of hate Rhyperior gets. Not that it matters either way, because it's all down to personal preference at the end of the day, but I just don't see what it is that's so detestable about it.
In my first sapphire playthrough wattsons manetric whooped my whole team until i got to marshstomp
It’s got a sweet shiny tho
Manectric's gen 3 sprite and sprite colors are actually really cool imo. But theres something about the slight shift in gen 4 and beyond that makes it look average to me after that lol. Especially gen 6 and beyond.
It made it to the finals of VGC Worlds in 2016 if that counts for anything
Always found Manectric to be forgettable.
Dewgong OK design, Bland and mediocre stats, typing is shared by multiple other pokemon (including 2 from the same generation), no interesting signature move or ability, doesn't really have a huge prominent appearance in any game
Yeah Dewgong is just poor man's Lapras. I tried using it in a playthrough once just to try it out and I still got bored with it and swapped it. It could really benefit from a signature move like you say, and maybe a more interesting ability.
TIL My childhood fav Pokemon is in ‘forgettable’ territory with the fanbase. Totally fair explanation why.
I was surprised to find Dewgong so hated
Dewgong is almost not even a pokemon Remove the little horn and we have only a simple cartoon dugong
Yeah, that's why I always found Dewgong to be forgettable.
*except Pokémon Puzzle League
GONG! GONG! GONG!
Seel/Dewgong line. Decent typing, entirely forgettable design.
Went here to say Dewgong Seel doesnt even get to have the cool typing
Disagree. The Misty Mermaid made me want one.
Would love a 3rd evo that looks like a narwhal
Base Castform. All 70 and and normal typing
Someone made a list of all stat averages and most were right around 70. Attack was a little higher speed was lower. Basically Castform is perfect. If you build it for a specific weather, it is a little better than average during that type of weather, and probably a little worse than average when another hits. With no weather at all it is very mid.
I feel like it should gain like a stat buff when a specific weather activates, coupled with some sort of team benefit when Castform is on the field during that kind of weather. Assuming it ever gets a sandstorm form (which it more than likely never will but here's to hoping), I'd say make it a Fast Physical Pokémon in Sunny Form, a Bulky Physical Pokémon in Sandy Form, a Fast Special Pokémon in Snowy Form, and a Bulky Special Pokémon in Rainy Form.
If we go by BST metrics. Its spinda
If we put in a line all the different pokemon and their different formes/looks, as there's about a billion different Spinda, it'll also be the median pokemon.
This guy quantitatively reasons
Then it also is the mode Pokémon
You mean the Pokémon who GF admitted cannot be brought over to the last few gens bc of the sheer amount of spot pattern possibilities? My precious dizzy son
Wasn’t he in gen 8 though?
Only in BDSP iirc, and they messed up the spot algorithm, which doubled the amount of Spinda variants.
Seaking and I love him
Yeah Golden Seaking needs an improvement imo
Yeah, I’d be down if they replaced water veil with something else. He has very average stats so it’s hard to figure out what to improve on exactly.
It has lightning rod
True, it’s definitely its saving grace.
Fuck yeah Seaking
I always forget he’s in DPPt’s dex
Most flying types. Half of them are literally just birds.
pidove, especially even though I love it.
But then the remaining part is really good with Corviknight, Skarmory, Gliscor, Landorus, Dragonite, Pelipper. Then we also have that giga broken Mega Ray 🫣
And why are 75% of them normal/flying lol
Fun fact: the only fully-evolved pure Flying-Type Pokémon is Tornadus, while the only other two are the NFE Rookidee and Corvisquire. That's why I get upset when people say "There's only nine type combinations that have yet to be created!" As though a lot of other type combos aren't extremely underrepresented. You can't just make the only fully-evolved Bug/Ground Pokémon be Sand Cloak Wormadam and say "Job's a gooden!" No! Job is _not_ a gooden!
Lotta water types are just fish-ass fish, too
Seaking, Basculin, Magikarp, Feebas, Remoraid, Finneon, you name it.
I think Octillery's exceptional movepool alone makes him above average.
Octillary is great in Colosseum. Highest SpA of all available Water types, only one to get Ice Beam via level up, and one of only five available Pokémon that can learn Fire Blast
I agree, Octillery is a bold choice to use for this example. The only thing about it that bothers me is the remoraid evolution, but other than that Octillery is awesome.
I mean, the scrapped beta concepts from the Space world GS demo make it more obvious that the Remoraid and Octillery line was based on guns and tank cannons, but there's still elements of a revolver triggerfish in Remoraid and Octillery having its mouth be an extended cannon and the signature move Octazooka,just heavily toned down. This also makes Mantine based on WW2 aircraft with an underside gunner cannon technically.
Liepard, it’s a mono dark type in a game filled with other dark types, it has fairly forgettable design + average stats (other than speed), only interesting thing about it is that it has prankster
It used to do dumb funny stuff like Dive Cats and Revive Cats in nat Dex AG, so it can't be average
In fairness I didn’t know that, and I used to play that format a lot back in Gen 8
as someone who played gen 5 way way too much I absolutely hate liepard
Persian.
But Persian has money power!
IDC. It’s my favourite.
I’d expect that from Larry.
Golduck
Which is a shame because Psyduck rocks. The single typing sucks too.
Should have been water/psychic
While I agree I've also used Golduck on so many runs over the years. I now actively avoid it because I've used it too much!
Sudowoodo. I love this fake tree boi but he really is just…adequate
Average stat-wise but still a really cool, unique concept and clever name that's fun to say. In GSC it's a great addition to your team with high attack and defense and very early rock slide.
Really underrated in GSC. Sudowoodo was a shiny hunt I did about a year ago in crystal and used it on my team all the way through. Pure rock type with great moves and wins again Lance's dragonites
Yeah, I always ignored it until my last playthrough and was surprised how great it was. 100 attack and 115 defense is fantastic before the 4th gym, and while it has a very limited movepool, it still has everything you need. Strength, rock slide, low kick, dig and that thing will do work.
But have you considered Rock Head ability with Head Smash, Double-Edge, and Wood Hammer being on the table?
With his abysmal speed and garbage Sp. Def, good luck ever using any of that And I say this while being a diehard Sudowoodo fan
Trick Room? Choice band? Quick Claw? Idk I like to make it work.
Okay fair Also tbf I didn’t need any of that for my Sudowoodo in HG to absolutely obliterate Lance’s Dragonite while ten levels lower than it
best shiny in the game
Exploud is the absolute definition of mid.
Commented the same. And it's my favorite
I think Exploud has a good design and excellent concept, but unfortunately it's still just very forgettable
honestly I think hoenn has a higher percentage of "mid" pokemon than any other generation
I feel like Whiscash is definitely among the most average mons, especially in comparison to its fellow Water/Ground mons that excel in particular roles. Sure, it's got that great typing. But all of its non-HP stats are not quite high enough to be noteworthy while also not low enough to make it unusable. It has respectable bulk on both sides, but lacks the reliable recovery that allows Quagsire and Gastrodon to actually stay in for much longer. It can run both physical and special attacks, but never hits hard enough without the aid of items or boosts. None of its abilities are particularly useful but can still be beneficial in very niche situations. Anticipation can warn it of an opponent having a Grass-type attack, Oblivious protects it from Intimidate and Taunts that would prevent it from using Dragon Dance, etc. Even its design is in the awkward middle of being derpy enough to have Quagsire's charm and cool enough to have Swampert's popularity.
I LOVE Wiscash. I always do a Future Sight, set up a dragon dance, then disappear with dive and then do insane back to back damage.
All the raticate Normal type copies in the later gens. All useless, just filler Pokémon.
Greedent isn’t average, it’s uniquely awful
it looks like the dad squirrel in a knockoff disney movie
The Bidoof / Bibarel Slander It can literally use a vast majority of the Gen 4 HMs and gets STAB on all of the HMs it can learn but one of them, it's at least a very efficient HM Slave.
If you see my reply to another goof lover I mentioned good for HMs :).
Furret begs to differ
This is Bidoof slander
That big goof, TM slave it is… Furret though, super boring and pretty useless - sorry if your favourite mon!
No kidding because I never use them.
Yeah just average Pokémon, boring designs etc.
Stantler
Lumineon
That's the thing it's so basic is isn't basic cause people remember it and enjoy lumineon
I use lumineon exclusively cause I do not tire of it's battle cry. Also because I can Soak + U-turn into a grass or electric type for any baddies I'm having trouble with.
Silvally. How is this thing legendary? 95 base on every stat isn't bad but far from usable in serious formats.
bidoof
By design I think Flamigo.
It has two abilities that give it a unique niche in competitive.
flamigo carried my run, it was so funny to see an ordinary bird be a weapon of mass destruction :’)
There's nothing average about Octillery's name or design... maybe it's stats? but if we're talking overall, and not just game stat specific, then I guess we'd have to go with a normal type.. something entirely average, like Furret or Stantler.
Krabby
Rattata or Zubat
You better stop talking shit about the GOAT Octillery. That’s the Cynthia slayer
pidgeot
Made a video on this, but its, in my opinion, Seaking. Water is one of the most common typings in the game, and Seaking has a nearly average stat spread. Not only is Seaking's stat spread average, but its deviation from the average is also incredibly average. Seaking also has some of the most common abilites in the game (I think swift swim is the most common ability), and is really just a fish, one of the most common things for just any pokemon to be.
Flygon, unfortunately. Dope design, absolute mid as fuck stats. All 80 except attack (100) and speed (100). I hate it because I adore flygon. But yeah, he's mid.
This was my answer too. Flygon is formidable enough in general but is much worse than most dragons because they are usually psuedo-legendaries and is outclassed by Garchomp. It didn't get a mega and only really stands out because of what it isn't (a bug).
Only stands out for incredible design, nothing else. Unfortunate, really. Dude should be a goated pokemon imo. He's just as hard to evolve as the elite tier ones, so what gives?
Flygon is only mid bc of powercreep though. Back then it was stellar
He's well rounded but not particularly strong in any way. Dependable, but not much more
I mean now as you said, after like 20 years of power creep. Back in its release gen its ranked OU. Its (was) really fucking good, not even sightly average
So… Phione has 80 in every base stat, so does that qualify as a totally average Pokemon? :v
Sandaconda Like yeah, it’s there. Doesn’t do much. Has a uniqueness in ability, so that’s cool ig. They’re just chilling, I have no feelings to it
I like it but I can't get past its giant gaping nostrils. Like I know that's the gimmick but still. Its pre evo is one of my favs that gen design wise
Pikachu - I tried using one in Fire Red and it was so pathetic I wondered how Ash was winning battles with the one in the anime, lol. Promoting it to Raichu didn't make it any better.
Getting a light ball for it helps (increases its atk, sp.atk and speed) but it's still a glass cannon. More fun in newer games with a more expanded movepool.
Hmm, I might give it another go with one of the newer games then. Thanks for the information, I'll see if I can get a light ball for it.
Even though it's my favorite, probably Exploud. Amazing movepool, extremely mid stats, normal type, meh abilities. And Gamefreak keeps snubbing it even though it should have been a pick for Team Yell and Team Star
Ratata
Seel
Pidgey
Buizel and Floatzel have always felt very average to me
Poliwrath. Works for so many rolls, but doesn't really work WELL for any of them. Just about any situation you would use a Poliwrath for, other Pokemon do better, but it can still fill the role. I think the only time it ever had a standout presence was LGPE OU, and that was a weird time in general... At least Octillery can pull Moody or Trick Room/Sniper stuff.
Glameow, probably? Just because I’ve been playing Platinum for the first time over the last two weeks and have fought countless Plasma grunts with Glameows, but I only realized last night when reading the name tag that it wasn’t Liepard.
Machoke, Mightyena or Maractus
Seel and Dewgong. Decent typing, but there are better Water Types in Gen 1.
Sunkern
I genuinely don’t have a single opinion about Huntail and Gorebyss. Some of the most nothing burger Pokémon ever imo.
Probably one of my favorites, but Pelipper. Shared typing with Gyarados, so it's often overlooked. Love the design, love the movepool, but it just isn't incredible.
Yeah, it's awesome defense and sp.atk is totally let down by a terrible sp.def and very average speed. Throw in the double weakness to electric (which is more special-leaning) and yeah it has its problems.
But wasn’t Pelipper so popular in VGC a few years ago thanks to its movepool? Because if that’s the case then I don’t think it’s that average
Sharpedo
Carnivine. Most people don't even know this pokemon exists lol. It basically only gets grass moves, except maybe crunch and sludgebomb. Stats are kinda blah. Interesting design is about all it has going for it.
Charizard. Mediocre design compared to other dragon-like Pokémon
For me it's the Mareep line. Definitely one of the Pokémon lines of all time. In a weird way I started to like this line for exactly that reason
Eevee.
Probably a hot take, but Pikachu. I'm glad they've started to put the spotlight on Eevee more, but I wish they would have made Eevee the mascot in the first place. Pikachu's design is just so meh to me. Not bad, not great, just ok.
Octillery is the most perfect Pokemon in existence.
Eevee. It’s a less iconic mascot and defines what’s unique about pokemon, their evolving.
Furret it's just a slightly bigger ferret
Gen 1 starters easily they have average stats and excel at not much honestly lmfao. Probably the most spread out stats among starters especially venasaur and Blastoise
Starters
Shellos and Gastrodon, they’re just the most un-likeable Pokemon to come across
Jirachi, but not for stats. It’s a safe and simple design that I don’t love and also don’t hate.
How dare you, Jirachi is one of the cutest and coolest Pokémon out there
Crobat. Easy to obtain. Okay stats. Surprisingly amazing defensively with three quad resistances and an immunity. Has never seen NU, but it's been like Pretty Okay in the lower tiers it generally finds itself in. It has a few sets it can run. Choice Band sets with Brave Bird and U-Turn are effective as well as Stallbreaking sets with Taunt/Roost. Even has special Nasty Plot sets if you're insane. Crobat is the most solidly average Pokémon ever.
I am octillery’s fiercest warrior - on behalf of the people I go to battle with: fuck you
Floatzal
Glalie, check the stats
I think octillery is the perfect answer
It’s like 50% of the water pokemon. I honestly want a moratorium on them for a few gens.
Seaking. Middle of the road stats, pretty plain typing, mediocre design. It hits all the notes for being an average Pokemon.
Seaking.
I have the Simisear line ranked at 301/603, perfectly average among the fully evolved Pokémon.
Beautifly. Mid asf stat wise, type wise, move wise...