Technician on Cloyster is absurd, Skill link means it’s Icicle Spear is guaranteed to hit 5 times, and Technician boosts each hit by 1.5x, effectively making Icicle spear a 187.5 base power move with no drawback
Sp. At. Water shuriken is a nice-to-have against Stamina Archaludon though!
I've always found that encounter extremely annoying with Skill Link.
To be fair though, I haven't tried with Technician, maybe the damage increase is so high that Stamina doesn't matter?
Battle bond greninja goes fucking hard. 157 spatk with a guaranteed 3 hits from water shurikin. Keep in mind if you have protean it *works with battle bond*
Question. If you have multi Lens on Cloyster, would icicle spear hit a possible 6th time or would it, if possible, hit 5, and then potentially another 5?
This is the way. My first Classic run had a carry Shell Smash Torterra. I'd gotten lucky with a Bullet Seed TM and two multi lenses. Had Ice Spinner and EQ to round out the moveset. There's just something satisfying about seeing a mud boi as a boss and absolutely decimating him with a "hit 12 times!"
Maybe I'm misunderstanding how it works, but I thought multi lens was just a damage downgrade, for the purpose of proccing additional effects more consistently/often?
It reduces power overall (2x.4), but because of the way the multiple health bars work (to delete each extra health bar is twice the damage) then more hits can be more effective. For example, an enemy with 2 bars, to one shot you need to do triple their health (1 for the first+ 2 for the second) but if you multihit you can do double just, as you delete the first bar, and then the second, as opposed to both at once.
In my infinite run rn I have the max amount of multi lens and kings rock on zacian and I’m just hitting everything with 4 iron heads. It’s so rare that anything moves
If it works like population bomb it would double the hits. My current endless run has a maushold with max wide lens and multi lens and it hits 40 times per turn.
I have a shiny skill link shellder as a starter, and have used it on runs before with no issues without the passive , but I have paired it with multi lens and double kings rocks and NOW I can have technician boosts? I need to try it asap.
Groudon with flash fire feels lackluster.
just farmed his passive and now it got changed ...
it is still strong but others like Kyogre with Rain Dish just seem a grade above.
Agreed, and did the same. To be fair he was a beast without his passive, but Kyogre seems a tier above him now.
Wondering if I swap my main carry to be Zacian instead.
How do you deal with the lack of spread moves? Groudon’s Eruption just oneshots everything in Endless. I don’t have Zacian yet but saving up for him.
How do you deal with double battles? Do you use a Roar Pokemon from the beginning of the run?
Double battles are probably the most annoying really. I do use my partner metal burst blastoise which either protects or metal bursts while Zacian takes them out one by one.
If they are too difficult I'll just runaway.
I wouldnt even say Flash Fire is strong.
For an endless carry, you aim to 1 shot everything before getting hit until you swap to stalling/counters. Flash Fire will realistically never be of benefit. Even if you are getting hit like from bosses, what are the odds its a fire move against Groudon?
For classic, it matters less since base groudon with no passive can beat it easily but even with passive, I guarantee Flash Fire won't proc more than 5 times for the entire run.
On the other hand, he didn't get to abuse it all that much. I have all his egg moves, and most people are running simple bibarel with limited coverage, one obligate normal move. I got to use his passive and have it be relevant two or three times per run. Sap sipper will be way more useful.
On a Pokémon that's going to be plus 4 over half of the time it's being used and will basically be 100% one shotting mons if he's using super effective moves anyway, it's just redundant.
I ran aqua step, sword dance, hyper fang, crunch and once you got that sword dance off and the first aqua step he was a monster. That being said if I didn’t have the red shiny I probably wouldn’t have used him much, just an easy throw in at .5.
Give him levitate.
Just completed a classic yesterday with a shiny mega gengar and the ONLY pokemon that beat him was cynthias reviver seed garchomp. If it had levitate, it would have lived on like 5-10% from an outrage
Perish body hurts gengar BAD.
You want to nasty plot as gengar yo be able to sweep, but of you get hit by something and perish body activates it forces you out and you lose your boosts. It may be ok if you dont use it as a sweeper and abuse shadow tag.
I'm pretty sure I recall seeing discussion about making Gengar's hidden ability be Levitate (don't remember if it was on the discord or a pull request), so that may be the case in the near future.
Commenting this again: Shedinja's passive is now Magic Guard. Which stacks with Wonder Guard.
So it's immune to all damage not coming from attacks that are super effective.
My current stupid plan is to get fletchling's new passive Magic Guard, and fuse shedinja onto it... and then never evolve the fletchling.
Only possible normal/ghost magic guard/wonder guard, can ONLY get hit by dark moves.
Seems good, but not sure if it's worth the effort of bringing 2 mons into endless for.
Paras losing poison heal for triage is by far the biggest L imo, sure other very powerful mons got less powerful but poison heal was the entire reason you'd take it, now it's just worse breloom in every single aspect.
Wooper losing simple for comatose is also very sad.
Wynaut and galarian zigzagoon are probably the biggest winners but a lot of mons got upgraded.
Am I insane for thinking that paras is fine still or are you talking about for endless? Bc strength sap at +3 seems super safe to me, allows for sappy seed I think the name is to do a lot of work with dry skin. He doesn't do it as passively as before, but he can take bigger hits and recover before now.
Mainly endless but while poison heal wasn't as good in classic triage is still actively useless, +3 priority strenght sap isn't safe or even good really because the AI will switch the moment parasect hits the field and blast it with a supereffective move that it cannot take even at -1 (and that most of the time is special anyways).
What you want to do with parasect is switch it in a move it can take then bank on the fact that the AI is going to switch to get off a free spore/sappy seed on the incoming pokemon, having priority on healing moves does nothing to help with that nor does it enable parasect to actually stay on the field.
G-Max Machamp (67 base) with max Spd IVs is effectively 109 base Spd with Quick Feet, which is workable. You also have to remember that Iron Fist is only a 20% damage boost, pretty good but not amazing. You can still No Guard Dynamicpunch, but now you can also Guts/Quick Feet where not only can you actually outspeed enemies (if you get blessed with a Max Mushroom) but every attack that has good accuracy is just straight up stronger.
Tinted lens is good. It might have lower highs than technician, but it makes beedrill threatening in basically every scenario outside of 4x resistance.
aerilate boomburst is gonna cook, i have all it's egg moves and noctowl is way too good to cost 1 IMO. currently doing runs with noctowl and as many random pokemon i can carry lmfao
The one thing Mega Alakazam struggles with in endless (using it right now, at 1400) is priority. Sucker Punch wrecks him. Sucker punch + opponent enduring + another sucker punch is bye bye carry. It nerfs him a bit, but it makes him safer + boosts his STAB a bit.
Losing Opportunist sucks, but Psychic Surge is kinda cracked in its own right. It's a huge boost to Psychic damage and, since priority moves get told to fuck off, Alakazam's speed means you're almost always hitting first *and* hard as hell.
Fr, I just wanna use nidoking. Even if the devs REALLY want it to be physical, instead of special, what it's good at.
It had supreme overlord before, and it's lost it, which is disappointing :(
Unironically the biggest L's are us as players who farmed a long time for passives that were just suddenly changed, haha.
The system already isn't great, and encourages just sticking with the same mons as much as you can - but it's extra rough when it's then just promptly taken away.
^(Yes I unlocked Tinkaton Huge Power yesterday, precisely 2 hours before the announcement how did you guess.)
W's? I saw the post of Dhelmise having access to 4 STAB-moves now, that's pretty cool.
I'm the opposite. I just went through and discounted a bunch of shinies because they had useless passives or passives that made no difference to me. Now a bunch of them just got great ones and I'm out of candies. They just did a passive/egg move overhaul recently so I wasn't expecting another one so soon.
That's rough, buddy. I'm not sure if they were added after I read the document or if i only noticed now, but apparently, a few of the controversial changes have notes from the devs. They said Tinkatink is a powerhouse unto itself with its typing, and just wanted to dial her back a bit.
Oh I understand the changes, and Tink is still very good. But I thought the "questionable balancing" was part of the fun - so didn't exactly expect it. All good.
Oh, and Huge Power Farfetch'd and Huge Power Marowak are stand-in abilities because of the lack of Leek and Bone Club as items. They will likely be reevaluated if/when those are implemented.
I hope Farfetch'd keeps Huge Power after Leek is added, might be fun as a base to have Huge Power, +1 crit, and space for one more ability (Super Luck?)
I was sad that Stantler lost Magic Guard because his fusion with Shedinja made him Normal/Ghost. Luckly you can do the same now with Fletchling (?I believe)
Other than that, hoppip loses prankster and I am currently using that in an endless run so that’s a bummer. The biggest wins I have yet to check, I’m hoping we get another mon Purifying Salt as their Passive! 👀
Lokix losing technician is my biggest L. Stakeout usually does nothing (how many opponents are switching out in front of lokix). Technician made bug bite and fell stinger insane early game and still amazing late game.
I am also sad about klingklang losing steelworker. Levitate is good but I really appreciated gear grind doing so much damage.
Wobbefet is probably the biggest buff. Sturdy on a mon with insane health makes it ideal for endless.
Even ignoring stab moves, Lokix got technician boosted double kick which was wonderful for dealing with steel and rock types if you got caught in that situation.
I agree with Yungoos and Tink being L’s. I used them as a carry for classic to get vouchers for weaker mons but not anymore I guess. I think Magnemite got a good change with Levitate, and Archen/Slakoth with Trace seem viable now.
For me it's giving Heatran Earth Eater. Yes let's give the mon with 8 resistance and 2 immunities yet another immunity against the one type that basically always one shots them
Hated Gooey on Reuniclus due to him being a slow tank mon (if you want him fast you do a trick room play instead which gooey counters). Psychic Surge is much better than Gooey.
Tinka is probably the biggest loser but the second one imho is Kyogre
hydratation made it a dream for endless, allowing it to completely ignore all of the status tokens despite the nerf to lum stacking/berry pouch
like yeah groudon now is a tad weaker but it's still have 170 base att when primal so you know, it's not like it will be that noticeably worse, unlike Kyogre who lose something it can't really compensate for
there's a lot of winners but I'm gonna focus on two bugs mon I like
first heracross getting technician... Nothing to add, M-Hera is now a machine gun that launch nukes
second Scyther, it lost speed boost which some say it's a nerf, but counterpoint is that it gained tinted lens, allowing it to spam technician buffed bug bite against everything, even when resisted (which is very often) and that seems incredible (inb4 it lose bug bite as an egg move lmao)
I think I like Tinted Lens here. Scizor's main thing is Technician Bullet Punches, which don't benefit much off of Speed Boost but definitely benefit off Tinted Lens. Hard to say if it is better but I definitely like it more.
...wait that's legit a great idea lmao, heck you don't even need for kyogre to have façade, it could be your support zig or something
and now the new passif will help compensate the flame orb damage, fuck me I'm so doing that (whenever I finally catch/hatch the mofo)
ty for the idea
Since I got a Battle-Bond Froakie last week I grinded endless to find a Protean one to try the craziest Greninja with Adaptability, but now that I didn't even got to try it at least once makes the last few runs feel like a massive punch in the face
I'm so sad about Wishiwashi. I was grinding that, hoping that the lil fish would finally be usable. Now it's regenerator instead of parental bond. Like, seriously?
Wishiwashi had one chance to get out justttt of bottom feeders territory, and it got nerved before I had a chance to use it 😭
To be fair, I can understand the Wishiwashi change. Little fish is actually pretty strong, but their main weakness is being knocked out of Schooling thanks to low health. Regenerator means it gets a lot of healing from switches, which you'll be doing a lot in classic.
True, but regenerator doesn't actually help them maintain health that well. Wishiwashis weakness is that it's slow. 33 percent back every switch doesn't mean much if it's getting hit first each turn. If you get knocked down to Schooling, and switch out, that puts you at what, 40 percent ish? Which is going to get hit first, and likely knocked out before it has a chance to attack again.
Regenerator is incredible on mons like Mienshao or Amoonguss because they either have Bulk and self recovery, or fast pivot moves to stop/negate hits, and let the regen ability add up. Wishiwashi just lacks that.
Plus it's damage is...well it's alright. It's good, but the problem has always been making it viable over other water types, than can just heal up or switch out before they get hit.
Togekiss, Alakazam, Tatsugiri, Jumpluff, and Goodra are some of the most disappointing ones off the top of my head.
But two of my favorite pokemon Luxray and Gliscor just got huge buffs imo. Gliscor has carried multiple runs already without passive unlocked but now it's just busted. More speed on Luxray is a massive W imo, as it's naturally mid in terms of speed.
Swoobat though. Simple with Opportunist??? That's so broken. You can use Stored Power or just Baton Pass to something else.
Edit: Almost forgot Gholdengo. Contrary buffing Make It Rain sounds awesome.Edit: Almost forgot Gholdengo. Contrary buffing Make It Rain sounds awesome.
I feel like I got personally snubbed by the devs. Literally unlocked my first passive abilities last night, Anger Shell and Huge Power for shiny Krabby and shiny Yungoos, just to have them nerfed. What a wasted effort.
Adding in, by my count, 33 immunities, and dozens of resistances, most of them covering what *used* to be their weaknesses is a *huge* change and a huge *pain* to deal with in endless. That's not even mentioning all the new Ice Scales Pokemon too. Some of these are just such a stretch.
It's very excessive to me, and also ruins the specialness of some of these abilities. It makes all these pokemon feel very same-y
I'm also not a fan of making the Sentret and Zigzagoon Lines complete mirrors with their abilities. Let them be their own Pokemon! Furret is entirely Fluffy! Not to mention it completely nullifies ANY reason to fuse them together!
All in all, i think a lot of these changes focused too much on making Pokemon *better*, without focusing on what makes them *unique*.
I *liked* the niches Yungoos and Tinkaton had with Huge Power.
There SHOULD be pokemon like that in the game, and Tinkaton definitely would be needing some extra power in order to properly be swinging that massive hammer effectively.
as a jugulis enjoyer i am very happy with seeing aerilate get upgraded to lightning rod.
now dont get me wrong aerilate was already good for sure but now a weakness not only is an imunity but also boosts spatk
Concur. As much as strength is important, I think the thematic is what keep me playing as these abilities seems plausible for those Pokemons, rather than just for type coverage reasons.
The devs are homogenizing all the Pokemon by giving them the same abilities, passives, and egg moves.
If every Pokemon gets repetitively rebalanced to gain whatever meta shit is good, then they all slowly become more uniform over time removing the enormous diversity within the base game.
Big nerf for classic but big buff for Endless, Opportunist is insane when all the bosses get stat boosts on each health bar. I've been using a Suicune + Espathra fusion and it's just now falling off at wave 3000, imagine what you could do with a Pokemon with actually good stats
In Classic, it's kind of a nerf, but Miraidon won't really notice it too much.
In Endless, Opportunist works on the buffs from breaking boss bars and triggering berries - so if the opponent suddenly gets +5 Speed and Sp. Atk, then so does Miraidon.
Oh man, Tink and Yungoos both just lost Huge Power? 😭 that’s so funny, I just unlocked both of them last night after going through and seeing who had enough candies, but hadn’t used either yet
Pachirisu for Classic. Pickup and Honey Gather for items and money.
Litleo for Beast Boost (+Torch Song egg move)
Charmander for Beast Boost (+Mega Evolution)
Pixilate is honestly quite awful all things considered.
Yeah, sure, you can make some strong normal moves like Hyper Voice or Tri Attack into fairy type, but it's nice to have some normal moves as back up for better type coverage and spread.
Every Pokemon can learn a shit ton of normal moves, and normal moves hit 2 of the 3 types fairy is ineffective against for regular damage.
Also, the Pokemon that learn Pixilate are all special attack heavy, and most normal type moves are overwhelmingly physical moves. So, there is almost no benefit to making a mostly physical move pool into fairy type when fairy Pokemon are generally special attack users.
Cool idea for an ability, but it's potential is completely wasted on the wrong Pokemon.
Magnezone getting Levitate is insane lol. It would be insane in the main games too, but honestly with Magnet Pull being its main niche there, and Sturdy being its main niche here, having Levitate as a passive is just a massive buff, esp when no AI was hitting it with an electric move to begin with to proc Motor Drive, and its speed isn't even that crazy (or always necessary with Sturdy).
The biggest nerf is greninja losing adaptability before protean even got implemented
Like I mean 2x damage on every attack is insane but now he just does increased damage if an opponent switches in which isn’t terrible except for that fact like 90% of the time you’re fighting wild pokemon or trainers who don’t switch, so the ability is only useful against gym leaders and elite 4 members (who specialize in one type so if you’re against a grass, fairy, electric, fighting, or bug specialist you probably won’t be using him), the champion, and the ivy battles.
And on top of this protean still isn’t even implemented
While I get Butterfree's change from Magician to Serene Grace, it's also quite the nerf for it imo. Sure, now you can flinch with it more reliably, but Magician is arguably one of the best abilities in this game and losing it is a huge loss imo.
hoothoot now have aerilate is a big w.
it has boomburst as a egg move. That means at level 5 boomburst is effectively a 168 power flying attack + STAB, and hits all creatures.
I hatched an epic shiny Minun yesterday and unlocked it's passive which was Plus. I was kinda excited to try it out because having Plus and Minus could have been kinda cool, as well as it being an epic shiny. Then today the changes happened and it's passive is now Power Spot which has made Plusle and Minun completely useless again :(
Huge buffs:
- Speed Boost Arcanine
- Levitate Magnezone
- Technician Heracross
- Tough Claws Weavile
- Lightning Rod Skarmory
However, I've noticed that the developers are homogenizing the game by giving all the Pokemon the same few abilities, passives, and egg moves which is quite disappointing because it removes diversity.
I'd rather see reworks of lackluster moves, abilities, and passives instead of all Pokemon reworked to become slightly different versions of one another.
The devs should not be scared to take creative liberties and generate original content in order to better accommodate and balance the game.
Ok heres the thing. I like that a lot of these changes make some mons more viable. What i dont like, is that these changes seem to be forgetting that flavor is important too (like quick draw for smeargle was a classic). Not every mon needs to be strictly upgraded by their passives — i personally prefer sidegrades that open up new playstyles or options for teambuilding.
Also, stop giving out immunities! WE HAVE TO PLAY AGAINST THESE in boss stages and constantly in endless.
Gumshoos losing huge power is the worst. Toght claws is still nice, but it makes gumshoos kinda mediocre. Tinkaton losing it is also terrible
At least there’s still farfetch’d though.
I cannot for the life of me understand why parental bond was taken from maushold(other than it being op). They gave parental bond to so many Pokemon, even dondozo, and removed it from the one where it makes the most sense having it
I’m not sure what the best ability would be for it but I wish blaziken would get something better than reckless. You hit hard, sure. But running four recoil moves is not very fun
Imo Elekid losing Iron Fist is an L to me. My cool Red Shiny Elekid was blasting tho the lower levels of Classic and Endless. By the time it evolved into Electivire, it was destroying the other Pokemon on the higher floors.
Ribombee buff with tinted lens as its passive instead of friend guard. Now it has passive income and the ability to be a self sufficient nuke with quiver dance into tinted lens. Gholdengo also got a HUGE buff with it getting contrary make it rain…
The nerf I’m absolutely distraught about is Castform losing adaptability for moody(???). There wasn’t much conversation about this one and it felt out of nowhere considering how weak Castform is normally (not considering forecast isn’t even implemented), so having adaptability actually made it fun to run with boomburst. I saw some comments in the discord regarding other passive changes that, after hearing feedback, they might reverse if the devs also agree the change doesn’t make sense. But it was VERY few, so I just hope my small boy gets reconsidered.
Stantler losing Magic Guard for Analytic seems like a pretty big nurf. Magic Guard was great for all the recoil moves Stantler gets.
Nincada getting Magic Guard seems like a major boost. Now you can get a Shedinja with Magic Guard and Wonder Guard, without having to fuse.
Contrary Gholdengo is pretty insane
Torch song is one of the best moves In pokerogue and with contrary Gholdengo does the same thing when it used make it rain
Technician on Cloyster is absurd, Skill link means it’s Icicle Spear is guaranteed to hit 5 times, and Technician boosts each hit by 1.5x, effectively making Icicle spear a 187.5 base power move with no drawback
Now if only the devs would revert Water Shuriken back to a physical move...
Cloyster’s SpAtk isn’t bad.
Yeah, but I'd rather run it as Jolly or Adamant at which point I'm not using water shuriken anymore.
Run Naive. Not like it’s living special hits anyway.
Sp. At. Water shuriken is a nice-to-have against Stamina Archaludon though! I've always found that encounter extremely annoying with Skill Link. To be fair though, I haven't tried with Technician, maybe the damage increase is so high that Stamina doesn't matter?
Battle bond greninja goes fucking hard. 157 spatk with a guaranteed 3 hits from water shurikin. Keep in mind if you have protean it *works with battle bond*
Wait why isn’t it physical???
One thing I just noticed is that every Skill Link Pokemon has either Technician or Scrappy now.
Question. If you have multi Lens on Cloyster, would icicle spear hit a possible 6th time or would it, if possible, hit 5, and then potentially another 5?
It hits 5 times, then 5 more times last I checked. Stacks each multi lens you get
This is the way. My first Classic run had a carry Shell Smash Torterra. I'd gotten lucky with a Bullet Seed TM and two multi lenses. Had Ice Spinner and EQ to round out the moveset. There's just something satisfying about seeing a mud boi as a boss and absolutely decimating him with a "hit 12 times!"
Maybe I'm misunderstanding how it works, but I thought multi lens was just a damage downgrade, for the purpose of proccing additional effects more consistently/often?
It reduces power overall (2x.4), but because of the way the multiple health bars work (to delete each extra health bar is twice the damage) then more hits can be more effective. For example, an enemy with 2 bars, to one shot you need to do triple their health (1 for the first+ 2 for the second) but if you multihit you can do double just, as you delete the first bar, and then the second, as opposed to both at once.
I’m currently using a 4x multi lens Buzzwole with power up punch. It’s incredibly good.
Dang, that’s sick. Thanks
If you run that, make sure to slap those King's Rocks on Cloyster too ;)
Imagine being a random wild pokemon at the end of that.
I wana try it in infinite lol
It works well until you get pokemon enduring hits. You have to sit there through all like 20 endures.
In my infinite run rn I have the max amount of multi lens and kings rock on zacian and I’m just hitting everything with 4 iron heads. It’s so rare that anything moves
Yes. And then another 5. Doing this with Population Bomb, Wide Lens and King's Rock is a legit strat for Endless
With skill link it would hit 20 times if you had max multi lens that is
It's pretty great stacking a kings rock on it as well.
Grip claw too. All your items are belong to us
If it works like population bomb it would double the hits. My current endless run has a maushold with max wide lens and multi lens and it hits 40 times per turn.
I have a shiny skill link shellder as a starter, and have used it on runs before with no issues without the passive , but I have paired it with multi lens and double kings rocks and NOW I can have technician boosts? I need to try it asap.
yeah, Moxie isn't good since its most preferabble attack is Water Shuriken which has priority...
Groudon with flash fire feels lackluster. just farmed his passive and now it got changed ... it is still strong but others like Kyogre with Rain Dish just seem a grade above.
Agreed, and did the same. To be fair he was a beast without his passive, but Kyogre seems a tier above him now. Wondering if I swap my main carry to be Zacian instead.
Zacian kept unnerve and is still awesome
How do you deal with the lack of spread moves? Groudon’s Eruption just oneshots everything in Endless. I don’t have Zacian yet but saving up for him. How do you deal with double battles? Do you use a Roar Pokemon from the beginning of the run?
Double battles are probably the most annoying really. I do use my partner metal burst blastoise which either protects or metal bursts while Zacian takes them out one by one. If they are too difficult I'll just runaway.
Just splice EQ onto him and then unsplice, then he keeps EQ and stays zacian
it's a bit late now cause I'm past 3k and my damage is falling off a cliff. I've switched to seismic toss/night shade
for sure. protosynthesis is way better than flash fire
Maybe Solar Powered would have been a better option to keep with the weather-related theme.
Should’ve been earth eater. Always bothered me that the legendary ground pokemon was weak to ground.
Haha, you're right, that makes no sense
Worst part? It used to be Earth Eater, but got switched to Protosinthesys
This is such a dumb change
I mean for fucks sake they gave zygarde huge power. They did my boi groudon dirty
I wouldnt even say Flash Fire is strong. For an endless carry, you aim to 1 shot everything before getting hit until you swap to stalling/counters. Flash Fire will realistically never be of benefit. Even if you are getting hit like from bosses, what are the odds its a fire move against Groudon? For classic, it matters less since base groudon with no passive can beat it easily but even with passive, I guarantee Flash Fire won't proc more than 5 times for the entire run.
Groudon's new passive got changed from Flash Fire to Turboblaze, which is miles better IMO.
I’m sad that Bidoof lost Neuroforce, I just liked the idea of that stupid idiot secretly having super brain powers
On the other hand, he didn't get to abuse it all that much. I have all his egg moves, and most people are running simple bibarel with limited coverage, one obligate normal move. I got to use his passive and have it be relevant two or three times per run. Sap sipper will be way more useful. On a Pokémon that's going to be plus 4 over half of the time it's being used and will basically be 100% one shotting mons if he's using super effective moves anyway, it's just redundant.
I ran aqua step, sword dance, hyper fang, crunch and once you got that sword dance off and the first aqua step he was a monster. That being said if I didn’t have the red shiny I probably wouldn’t have used him much, just an easy throw in at .5.
Perish body on gengar was kinda annoying ngl, let’s see how shadow shield works on him… he will be able to tank ground physical moves once I guess
they should give him back what game freak stole from him…
That's gonna clinch because gastly and hunter do still have that
Give him levitate. Just completed a classic yesterday with a shiny mega gengar and the ONLY pokemon that beat him was cynthias reviver seed garchomp. If it had levitate, it would have lived on like 5-10% from an outrage Perish body hurts gengar BAD. You want to nasty plot as gengar yo be able to sweep, but of you get hit by something and perish body activates it forces you out and you lose your boosts. It may be ok if you dont use it as a sweeper and abuse shadow tag.
I'm pretty sure I recall seeing discussion about making Gengar's hidden ability be Levitate (don't remember if it was on the discord or a pull request), so that may be the case in the near future.
Commenting this again: Shedinja's passive is now Magic Guard. Which stacks with Wonder Guard. So it's immune to all damage not coming from attacks that are super effective.
A lot of mons got passives that negate their weakness, so there are more mons that would love to have a Shedinja splice Wonderguard on them.
That is a straight upgrade from Overcoat, indeed.
Yeah. Sadly it doesnt keep it after splicing
My current stupid plan is to get fletchling's new passive Magic Guard, and fuse shedinja onto it... and then never evolve the fletchling. Only possible normal/ghost magic guard/wonder guard, can ONLY get hit by dark moves. Seems good, but not sure if it's worth the effort of bringing 2 mons into endless for.
Well every plan is stupid until someone pulls it off! Ill be waiting to hear about how it goes.
Paras losing poison heal for triage is by far the biggest L imo, sure other very powerful mons got less powerful but poison heal was the entire reason you'd take it, now it's just worse breloom in every single aspect. Wooper losing simple for comatose is also very sad. Wynaut and galarian zigzagoon are probably the biggest winners but a lot of mons got upgraded.
Am I insane for thinking that paras is fine still or are you talking about for endless? Bc strength sap at +3 seems super safe to me, allows for sappy seed I think the name is to do a lot of work with dry skin. He doesn't do it as passively as before, but he can take bigger hits and recover before now.
Mainly endless but while poison heal wasn't as good in classic triage is still actively useless, +3 priority strenght sap isn't safe or even good really because the AI will switch the moment parasect hits the field and blast it with a supereffective move that it cannot take even at -1 (and that most of the time is special anyways). What you want to do with parasect is switch it in a move it can take then bank on the fact that the AI is going to switch to get off a free spore/sappy seed on the incoming pokemon, having priority on healing moves does nothing to help with that nor does it enable parasect to actually stay on the field.
Breloom also has Poison Heal though?
Having it as a passive made paras very good as a fusion base, breloom gets it as an ability which is different.
Ah, ok. What's Shroomish's Passive, though?
Machamp losing Iron Fist for Quick Feet. Yeah, good luck taking advantage of a Pokémon with a base Speed stat of 55.
Yeah, there were a lot of flavor-based abilities that got removed for "balance" purposes.
damn, No Guard Iron Fist Dynamic Punch is so good tho...
G-Max Machamp (67 base) with max Spd IVs is effectively 109 base Spd with Quick Feet, which is workable. You also have to remember that Iron Fist is only a 20% damage boost, pretty good but not amazing. You can still No Guard Dynamicpunch, but now you can also Guts/Quick Feet where not only can you actually outspeed enemies (if you get blessed with a Max Mushroom) but every attack that has good accuracy is just straight up stronger.
maractus is now immune to water and fire type moves—it has water absorb as default ability and got well-baked body as its passive.
Similar to that steel worm i forget the name off. Has eartheater and flash fire passive so only weak to fighting
I'm sad that weedle lost technician. Technician fell stinger beedrill was so nice even pre-mega in classic
Beedrill carried my second Classic win with Fell Stinger. Pour one out for the pointy boi.
Yeah the notes say it isn't a nerf but I really don't see how it isn't.
did its technican passive stack w its mega?
Yes
Tinted lens is good. It might have lower highs than technician, but it makes beedrill threatening in basically every scenario outside of 4x resistance.
NOOOOOOO I just got the passive and they changed it?
dhelmise is now part water type hell yeah! i havent read the doc though but im hoping zigzagoon gets honey gather
Galarian Zigzagoon got Poison Heal. Guts Poison Heal Obstagoon with STAB Facade sounds like an unkillable nightmare
In the normal series that's true, but in this game nothing's unkillable eventually
Zig got run away, making it even more insanely OP as an endless utility pick, clearly a dev is very biased towards specifically that mon
LETS GO NOCTOWL AERILATE RAHHH
aerilate boomburst is gonna cook, i have all it's egg moves and noctowl is way too good to cost 1 IMO. currently doing runs with noctowl and as many random pokemon i can carry lmfao
One of the biggest W's is archaludon. Getting drizzle allows electro shot to go off without the charge up turn.
i haven't used it personally much yet but isnt archaludon already fucking nuts? lol
Just realized the biggest L was Barboach. It can't eat Master Balls anymore.
https://preview.redd.it/zs5ilzql5y5d1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77b1419d7f04f03f540a52bb1b1d6e855f2fc86c
Lmao i didnt even consider that as a use for ball fetch, i always thought it was just kind of a useless QoL for saving a bit of cash
My sturdy blastoise and unnerve zacian keeping their passives
Abra without opportunist feels nerfed. Opportunist was very strong in endless and higher levels of classic
Yeah, most of the terrains are just not powerful enough to be relevant long-term strategies in this game.
The one thing Mega Alakazam struggles with in endless (using it right now, at 1400) is priority. Sucker Punch wrecks him. Sucker punch + opponent enduring + another sucker punch is bye bye carry. It nerfs him a bit, but it makes him safer + boosts his STAB a bit.
Losing Opportunist sucks, but Psychic Surge is kinda cracked in its own right. It's a huge boost to Psychic damage and, since priority moves get told to fuck off, Alakazam's speed means you're almost always hitting first *and* hard as hell.
I like Skarmory, so I am quite happy that oblivious is being replaced with lightning rod.
Then fuse it with a flash fire mon. Gross.
Furfrou went from ball fetch which is useless to fluffy, which when combined with fur coat makes that one tanky doggo. Huge buff.
i can't wait to try charmander now that he actually has a passive lol im just waiting patiently for parental bond to be implemented
I've got a Mega Kangaskhan run that I saved until it gets implemented. Can't wait
I still wish they just added in sheer force
Fr, I just wanna use nidoking. Even if the devs REALLY want it to be physical, instead of special, what it's good at. It had supreme overlord before, and it's lost it, which is disappointing :(
Did they give up on sheer force or smth lmao, the stuff that's partial or not implemented feels completely arbitrary so I wanna know what's the holdup
Slaking with trace is crazy, unless it doesn’t change truant
The doc says trace overrides the original ability so truant goes bye bye, same with archen losing defeatist
The 670 BST Gen 3 Mon will finally have its superiority
Unironically the biggest L's are us as players who farmed a long time for passives that were just suddenly changed, haha. The system already isn't great, and encourages just sticking with the same mons as much as you can - but it's extra rough when it's then just promptly taken away. ^(Yes I unlocked Tinkaton Huge Power yesterday, precisely 2 hours before the announcement how did you guess.) W's? I saw the post of Dhelmise having access to 4 STAB-moves now, that's pretty cool.
The correct answer. But this is not our game and we don't pay for it. We're just in it for the ride.
I'm the opposite. I just went through and discounted a bunch of shinies because they had useless passives or passives that made no difference to me. Now a bunch of them just got great ones and I'm out of candies. They just did a passive/egg move overhaul recently so I wasn't expecting another one so soon.
That's rough, buddy. I'm not sure if they were added after I read the document or if i only noticed now, but apparently, a few of the controversial changes have notes from the devs. They said Tinkatink is a powerhouse unto itself with its typing, and just wanted to dial her back a bit.
Oh I understand the changes, and Tink is still very good. But I thought the "questionable balancing" was part of the fun - so didn't exactly expect it. All good.
Oh, and Huge Power Farfetch'd and Huge Power Marowak are stand-in abilities because of the lack of Leek and Bone Club as items. They will likely be reevaluated if/when those are implemented.
I hope Farfetch'd keeps Huge Power after Leek is added, might be fun as a base to have Huge Power, +1 crit, and space for one more ability (Super Luck?)
Venomoth gets Simple. Now add Quiver Dance and Tinted Lens.
I was sad that Stantler lost Magic Guard because his fusion with Shedinja made him Normal/Ghost. Luckly you can do the same now with Fletchling (?I believe) Other than that, hoppip loses prankster and I am currently using that in an endless run so that’s a bummer. The biggest wins I have yet to check, I’m hoping we get another mon Purifying Salt as their Passive! 👀
Shedinja's passive changed from Overcoat to Magic Guard if that makes you feel any better.
True! For Classic that’ll be nice, for Endless I’d say it’s not useful because of the Bug/Ghost typing
Im just sad we never got to try parental bond maushold
I don't know if Parental Bond works with Population Bomb, though.
Cramorant lost storm drain and gained lightning rod, effectively removing its 4x weakness. So yeah, pretty great.
Lokix losing technician is my biggest L. Stakeout usually does nothing (how many opponents are switching out in front of lokix). Technician made bug bite and fell stinger insane early game and still amazing late game. I am also sad about klingklang losing steelworker. Levitate is good but I really appreciated gear grind doing so much damage. Wobbefet is probably the biggest buff. Sturdy on a mon with insane health makes it ideal for endless.
Apparently more trainers are incoming, so Stakeout might be more effective in the near future. But yeah, Tech Bug Bite was great while it lasted
Even ignoring stab moves, Lokix got technician boosted double kick which was wonderful for dealing with steel and rock types if you got caught in that situation.
No more 80 hit combo population bomb :(
Parental Bond doesn't work with Multi Hit Moves, so that wasn't going to happen either way.
I agree with Yungoos and Tink being L’s. I used them as a carry for classic to get vouchers for weaker mons but not anymore I guess. I think Magnemite got a good change with Levitate, and Archen/Slakoth with Trace seem viable now.
I thought moxie on cloyster was op then they gave him technician
I'm still torn on that. Can't tell if it's a buff, nerf, or lateral move.
It’s going to be insane for my classic farms.
Zigzagoon goes from really good on endless to having two of the most needed utilities(pick up + run away) in one pokemon
I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this. Literally turns zigzagoon into the best utility pokemon, bar none
Vespiquen losing Queenly Majesty was a huge blow Her Majesty has been disrespected :(
Yeah I mentioned it in another reply, but a ton of flavor abilities got replaced to buff the Pokemon.
For me it's giving Heatran Earth Eater. Yes let's give the mon with 8 resistance and 2 immunities yet another immunity against the one type that basically always one shots them
Hated Gooey on Reuniclus due to him being a slow tank mon (if you want him fast you do a trick room play instead which gooey counters). Psychic Surge is much better than Gooey.
"You think you're fast, bucko? Well, why don't you hit me three or four times and THEN see who's laughing?!"
Really, Reuniclus's speed is a joke.
Slaking getting trace finally makes it a viable mon
Same with Archeops
Gligar getting Toxic Boost and Petilil swapping Dancer for Simple are crazy Ws
Iron Valiant, my usual carry, swapping download for adaptability is a small win, since now there's no need to run it mixed.
Tinka is probably the biggest loser but the second one imho is Kyogre hydratation made it a dream for endless, allowing it to completely ignore all of the status tokens despite the nerf to lum stacking/berry pouch like yeah groudon now is a tad weaker but it's still have 170 base att when primal so you know, it's not like it will be that noticeably worse, unlike Kyogre who lose something it can't really compensate for there's a lot of winners but I'm gonna focus on two bugs mon I like first heracross getting technician... Nothing to add, M-Hera is now a machine gun that launch nukes second Scyther, it lost speed boost which some say it's a nerf, but counterpoint is that it gained tinted lens, allowing it to spam technician buffed bug bite against everything, even when resisted (which is very often) and that seems incredible (inb4 it lose bug bite as an egg move lmao)
I think I like Tinted Lens here. Scizor's main thing is Technician Bullet Punches, which don't benefit much off of Speed Boost but definitely benefit off Tinted Lens. Hard to say if it is better but I definitely like it more.
>unlike Kyogre who lose something it can't really compensate for You can just teach it facade and slap a flame orb on it.
...wait that's legit a great idea lmao, heck you don't even need for kyogre to have façade, it could be your support zig or something and now the new passif will help compensate the flame orb damage, fuck me I'm so doing that (whenever I finally catch/hatch the mofo) ty for the idea
Gholdango getting contrary.
Since I got a Battle-Bond Froakie last week I grinded endless to find a Protean one to try the craziest Greninja with Adaptability, but now that I didn't even got to try it at least once makes the last few runs feel like a massive punch in the face
Seriously! Adaptability Protean was a match made in heaven!
I'm so sad about Wishiwashi. I was grinding that, hoping that the lil fish would finally be usable. Now it's regenerator instead of parental bond. Like, seriously? Wishiwashi had one chance to get out justttt of bottom feeders territory, and it got nerved before I had a chance to use it 😭
To be fair, I can understand the Wishiwashi change. Little fish is actually pretty strong, but their main weakness is being knocked out of Schooling thanks to low health. Regenerator means it gets a lot of healing from switches, which you'll be doing a lot in classic.
True, but regenerator doesn't actually help them maintain health that well. Wishiwashis weakness is that it's slow. 33 percent back every switch doesn't mean much if it's getting hit first each turn. If you get knocked down to Schooling, and switch out, that puts you at what, 40 percent ish? Which is going to get hit first, and likely knocked out before it has a chance to attack again. Regenerator is incredible on mons like Mienshao or Amoonguss because they either have Bulk and self recovery, or fast pivot moves to stop/negate hits, and let the regen ability add up. Wishiwashi just lacks that. Plus it's damage is...well it's alright. It's good, but the problem has always been making it viable over other water types, than can just heal up or switch out before they get hit.
Togekiss, Alakazam, Tatsugiri, Jumpluff, and Goodra are some of the most disappointing ones off the top of my head. But two of my favorite pokemon Luxray and Gliscor just got huge buffs imo. Gliscor has carried multiple runs already without passive unlocked but now it's just busted. More speed on Luxray is a massive W imo, as it's naturally mid in terms of speed. Swoobat though. Simple with Opportunist??? That's so broken. You can use Stored Power or just Baton Pass to something else. Edit: Almost forgot Gholdengo. Contrary buffing Make It Rain sounds awesome.Edit: Almost forgot Gholdengo. Contrary buffing Make It Rain sounds awesome.
I feel like I got personally snubbed by the devs. Literally unlocked my first passive abilities last night, Anger Shell and Huge Power for shiny Krabby and shiny Yungoos, just to have them nerfed. What a wasted effort.
Adding in, by my count, 33 immunities, and dozens of resistances, most of them covering what *used* to be their weaknesses is a *huge* change and a huge *pain* to deal with in endless. That's not even mentioning all the new Ice Scales Pokemon too. Some of these are just such a stretch. It's very excessive to me, and also ruins the specialness of some of these abilities. It makes all these pokemon feel very same-y I'm also not a fan of making the Sentret and Zigzagoon Lines complete mirrors with their abilities. Let them be their own Pokemon! Furret is entirely Fluffy! Not to mention it completely nullifies ANY reason to fuse them together! All in all, i think a lot of these changes focused too much on making Pokemon *better*, without focusing on what makes them *unique*. I *liked* the niches Yungoos and Tinkaton had with Huge Power. There SHOULD be pokemon like that in the game, and Tinkaton definitely would be needing some extra power in order to properly be swinging that massive hammer effectively.
It effectively takes away the lore and immersion of the world and trading it for pure competitive reasons :c
as a jugulis enjoyer i am very happy with seeing aerilate get upgraded to lightning rod. now dont get me wrong aerilate was already good for sure but now a weakness not only is an imunity but also boosts spatk
Biggest L’s in my opinion are Pokémon who lost a thematic ability for a ‘competitive’ ability, like Nidoqueen and Vespiquen losing Queenly Majesty
Concur. As much as strength is important, I think the thematic is what keep me playing as these abilities seems plausible for those Pokemons, rather than just for type coverage reasons.
Smeargle with Quick Draw was really funny too
The devs are homogenizing all the Pokemon by giving them the same abilities, passives, and egg moves. If every Pokemon gets repetitively rebalanced to gain whatever meta shit is good, then they all slowly become more uniform over time removing the enormous diversity within the base game.
I don't actually know if Miraidon losing quark drive for opportunist is bad or good but I'm definitely going to miss it
Big nerf for classic but big buff for Endless, Opportunist is insane when all the bosses get stat boosts on each health bar. I've been using a Suicune + Espathra fusion and it's just now falling off at wave 3000, imagine what you could do with a Pokemon with actually good stats
In Classic, it's kind of a nerf, but Miraidon won't really notice it too much. In Endless, Opportunist works on the buffs from breaking boss bars and triggering berries - so if the opponent suddenly gets +5 Speed and Sp. Atk, then so does Miraidon.
I have a shiny wooloo and caterpie. Rockhead and magician were great with those two, and now it's gone.
Miraidon and koriadon now having opportunist instead of quirk drive and photosynthesis
Oh man, Tink and Yungoos both just lost Huge Power? 😭 that’s so funny, I just unlocked both of them last night after going through and seeing who had enough candies, but hadn’t used either yet
Pachirisu for Classic. Pickup and Honey Gather for items and money. Litleo for Beast Boost (+Torch Song egg move) Charmander for Beast Boost (+Mega Evolution)
Sentret pickup is huge
A bit of a silly one, but Spidops lost pickup… I got a shiny one and with the cheap cost I farmed out the passive ;-; to get two in one.
Honey Gather is apparently amazing in Endless. Money just starts flowing the deeper you get.
gliscor with toxic heal + toxic boost is a massive W
My sweet, dear togepi losing opportunist for pixilate. What is it supposed to do now, run physical togekiss or pray for hyper voice TM? 😭
Think about a Serene Grace STAB Tri Attack, though!
I imagine it's meant to be used with Tri Attack for when Serene Grace is finally implemented. Still a major nerf imo
Pixilate is honestly quite awful all things considered. Yeah, sure, you can make some strong normal moves like Hyper Voice or Tri Attack into fairy type, but it's nice to have some normal moves as back up for better type coverage and spread. Every Pokemon can learn a shit ton of normal moves, and normal moves hit 2 of the 3 types fairy is ineffective against for regular damage. Also, the Pokemon that learn Pixilate are all special attack heavy, and most normal type moves are overwhelmingly physical moves. So, there is almost no benefit to making a mostly physical move pool into fairy type when fairy Pokemon are generally special attack users. Cool idea for an ability, but it's potential is completely wasted on the wrong Pokemon.
aint no one gonna talk about gholdengo getting contrary?
Why is no one talking about Earth Ester Aggron and Heatran. I saw that and I was like WHO LET THEM COOK.
Big fan of beast boost charmander cant wait to use it
Magnezone getting Levitate is insane lol. It would be insane in the main games too, but honestly with Magnet Pull being its main niche there, and Sturdy being its main niche here, having Levitate as a passive is just a massive buff, esp when no AI was hitting it with an electric move to begin with to proc Motor Drive, and its speed isn't even that crazy (or always necessary with Sturdy).
The biggest nerf is greninja losing adaptability before protean even got implemented Like I mean 2x damage on every attack is insane but now he just does increased damage if an opponent switches in which isn’t terrible except for that fact like 90% of the time you’re fighting wild pokemon or trainers who don’t switch, so the ability is only useful against gym leaders and elite 4 members (who specialize in one type so if you’re against a grass, fairy, electric, fighting, or bug specialist you probably won’t be using him), the champion, and the ivy battles. And on top of this protean still isn’t even implemented
While I get Butterfree's change from Magician to Serene Grace, it's also quite the nerf for it imo. Sure, now you can flinch with it more reliably, but Magician is arguably one of the best abilities in this game and losing it is a huge loss imo.
hoothoot now have aerilate is a big w. it has boomburst as a egg move. That means at level 5 boomburst is effectively a 168 power flying attack + STAB, and hits all creatures.
Most slept on mon is blissey with fur coat passive. Absolute wall
I hatched an epic shiny Minun yesterday and unlocked it's passive which was Plus. I was kinda excited to try it out because having Plus and Minus could have been kinda cool, as well as it being an epic shiny. Then today the changes happened and it's passive is now Power Spot which has made Plusle and Minun completely useless again :(
Huge buffs: - Speed Boost Arcanine - Levitate Magnezone - Technician Heracross - Tough Claws Weavile - Lightning Rod Skarmory However, I've noticed that the developers are homogenizing the game by giving all the Pokemon the same few abilities, passives, and egg moves which is quite disappointing because it removes diversity. I'd rather see reworks of lackluster moves, abilities, and passives instead of all Pokemon reworked to become slightly different versions of one another. The devs should not be scared to take creative liberties and generate original content in order to better accommodate and balance the game.
Lets get some well designed fakemons in here. But yeah the copy paste abilities is kind of off putting.
Ok heres the thing. I like that a lot of these changes make some mons more viable. What i dont like, is that these changes seem to be forgetting that flavor is important too (like quick draw for smeargle was a classic). Not every mon needs to be strictly upgraded by their passives — i personally prefer sidegrades that open up new playstyles or options for teambuilding. Also, stop giving out immunities! WE HAVE TO PLAY AGAINST THESE in boss stages and constantly in endless.
Gumshoos losing huge power is the worst. Toght claws is still nice, but it makes gumshoos kinda mediocre. Tinkaton losing it is also terrible At least there’s still farfetch’d though.
The devs said that Huge Power on both Farfetch'd and Marowak are placeholders until Leek and Bone Club get implemented.
I cannot for the life of me understand why parental bond was taken from maushold(other than it being op). They gave parental bond to so many Pokemon, even dondozo, and removed it from the one where it makes the most sense having it
I’m not sure what the best ability would be for it but I wish blaziken would get something better than reckless. You hit hard, sure. But running four recoil moves is not very fun
Not unless you're Hisuain Arcanine
pachirisu with pick up + honey gather? Insane starter
Weedle line losing technician makes me kinda sad but tinted lense could be useful.
Imo Elekid losing Iron Fist is an L to me. My cool Red Shiny Elekid was blasting tho the lower levels of Classic and Endless. By the time it evolved into Electivire, it was destroying the other Pokemon on the higher floors.
Ribombee buff with tinted lens as its passive instead of friend guard. Now it has passive income and the ability to be a self sufficient nuke with quiver dance into tinted lens. Gholdengo also got a HUGE buff with it getting contrary make it rain… The nerf I’m absolutely distraught about is Castform losing adaptability for moody(???). There wasn’t much conversation about this one and it felt out of nowhere considering how weak Castform is normally (not considering forecast isn’t even implemented), so having adaptability actually made it fun to run with boomburst. I saw some comments in the discord regarding other passive changes that, after hearing feedback, they might reverse if the devs also agree the change doesn’t make sense. But it was VERY few, so I just hope my small boy gets reconsidered.
Stantler losing Magic Guard for Analytic seems like a pretty big nurf. Magic Guard was great for all the recoil moves Stantler gets. Nincada getting Magic Guard seems like a major boost. Now you can get a Shedinja with Magic Guard and Wonder Guard, without having to fuse.
Absol chad letsgooo
The biggest L is how many are just good abilities tossed around instead of being themeatic
Im so sad Groudon lost Protosynthesis. IT WAS SO GOOD, WHY DEVS WHY!
Contrary Gholdengo is pretty insane Torch song is one of the best moves In pokerogue and with contrary Gholdengo does the same thing when it used make it rain
Carvahna getting sheer force is awesome. Crunch mega sharp gonna be stronk