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One of the things I like most about Bernie Sanders is his moral consistency, even when it’s not politically expedient.
It shouldn’t be controversial to think killing tens of thousands of noncombatants is wrong and I’m glad he’s being vocal about it.
That was done to sabotage Hillary Clinton's campaign, not Bernie's (they would likely have gone after his campaign instead if he was in the lead), and the general consensus these days I think is that "Guccifer 2.0" was probably a front for Russia's GRU.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guccifer\_2.0](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guccifer_2.0)
lol yeah people out here like “democrats are sabotaging decent people like Bernie! Vote against democrats!” Meanwhile the only other party has core values absolutely incompatible with his views and that of any kind of peaceful resolution to this war.
Having an accurate understanding of what happened in 2016 is important. Republicans are guilty of a lot, but it was specifically the DNC that went out of their way to stop Bernie.
The Democratic party has at least partially reformed themselves since. They've blocked superdelegates from voting in the first round, and also the level of vitriol against Bernie has gone way down since Biden became president. Biden treats Bernie like a normal and important part of the Democratic caucus, and that set the tone for everyone else.
Personally, I think Trump and the MAGA Republicans just don't know how to react to Bernie. He doesn't fit with their notions of a liberal elite villain, so he kind of gets a free pass from them.
“The thing about Bernie, by the way, is that he is probably the most honest person to ever run for president, ever. We came into Congress together, and I can tell you, he genuinely believes all the crazy s*** he says. So he may be nuts, but at least he's not cynical -- and a non-cynical politician is rare no matter how you slice it," Boehner writes.
Sort of a compliment.
Still Sanders.
Also, I think AOC is following his footsteps.
I truly believe AOC is going to be just as good, if not better than Bernie Sanders. I have a lot of faith in her.
The fact that - somehow, incredibly - *criticism* of a *nation-state* immediately transmogrifies into *existential hatred* of an *ethnicity* will never stop making me think I'm taking crazy pills.
It's like if I discussed the crimes of Mobutu Sese Seko and the next day everyone was talking about me joining the KKK.
It also shouldn’t be antisemitic to state that this is wrong. Bernie being able to say this, without being accused of antisemitism because he’s jewish, while gentiles saying the same thing are not, shows how flimsy some of the antisemitism accusations are.
I feel like motivating Israel to stop indiscriminate destruction of civilian lives, homes and infrastructure is *supporting* Israel. This war is turning *world* opinion against one of the few democracies in the region. Killing the last few HAMAS members is not a victory, if the trail of dead children and innocent civilians undermines support of Israel everywhere.
What is his solution? Leave Gaza to rebuild and try another attack once more which they're going to as they literally stated they will? I hate the fact that this many people died, but I just don't see how anything but actually getting rid of Hammas will resolve the issue in the future of the threat of Hammas. And no, simply "freeing Palestine" will not work because Hammas literally has stated it wants to get rid of Israel in it's totality.
Do you think if Israel "got rid" of Hamas, it would end there? Do you feel certain that Israel's relentless attacks on civilians won't end up breeding any future extremists?
Just like the West Bank is free from militaristic militants with actual ability to arm themselves I don't see why it wouldn't he possible to do the same to Gaza which is even smaller in size. Of course, you can't get rid of a ideology just like Germany wasn't able to fully get rid of Nazis altogether, but it is possible to functionally remove them as an credible threat. This argument is posed as a proverbial check mate to anyone trying to justify invading Gaza, but it completely negates the reality that ideologies can be effectively removed from any real power even if they still exist.
You’re ignoring the fact that the West Bank demilitarized and now they’re at the mercy of armed settlers who routinely launch pogroms against them and an Israeli military that’s taking their land piece by piece to create more settlements. If that’s the future Gaza has to look forward to, no shit they’d rather keep fighting
It's not genoice if deaths aren't intentional and arguably a invasion will yield large civilian casualties regardless if your aim is subdue an an entire densely populated area. The genocide claim isn't proven and the international courts have rejected that claim for what that is worth.
Yeah the IDF didn't intentionally kill those people buried in a mass grave with their hands tied behind their backs, that was just a whoopsie. A bit too on the nose to have Hitler in your username
People die in wars. It is sad, and unavoidable if war is unavoidable. There are valid reasons to be critical of Israel's policies in west bank, but the plain fact is that Israel is defending itself. Defending itself against a group of people with one goal: genocide. A group of people who commit genocidal acts knowing that 2million people around them will suffer for it.
Sanders is consistent, and honest, and I've voted for him in every primary I could. But on this issue, he's naive.
If palestinians lay down their arms (and Israel comes correct regarding west bank settlements) there will be peace. If israel lays down its arms, there will be no Israel.
> “No, Mr Netanyahu. It is not antisemitic or pro-Hamas to point out that in a little over six months your extremist government has killed 34,000 Palestinians and wounded more than 77,000 – seventy percent of whom are women and children. It is not antisemitic to point out that your bombing has completely destroyed more than 221,000 housing units in Gaza, leaving more than one million people homeless – almost half the population,” Mr Sanders said.
It’s reassuring to hear someone of Bernie’s stature publicly call this fuck out, and speak for humanness and basic decency.
In another universe, the Cuban Missile Crisis escalated to WWII and most of the world was bombed by nuclear weapons, having the little remaining people who survived try to rebuild society.
Can you change the past?
Alternative history is pointless.
I suck at history, but I’m pretty sure the Cuban Missile Crisis was after WWII. Also, it’s kind of funny to me that you chose to make your point by describing something pretty close to the plot of Fallout. Maybe that was intentional, but imo Fallout franchise is an example of something tangible resulting from imagining alternative history, and thus the exercise is far from pointless. The video games and now series are quite successful and captivating the imagination of millions is a very worthwhile activity.
I miswrote that. It should have been WWIII. My point is that alternative history is pointless. There's nothing that can be changed about the past. The reason why we study history is to recreate the good and avoid the bad that's happened, so we can all have a better future. Bernie Sanders is never going to be President. That's done now. Focus on the future.
Glad Sanders is saying this. Netanyahu demonstrates that he cares little for our First Amendment, while cynically using it to smear human & student rights activists.
He phrased this absolutely to the point.
Some groups make you out for antisemite if you condemn actions of Bibi and his ugly crowd (IDF first and foremost, then some Knesset members).
Here's Biden [speaking truth to power supporting the protests](https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/comments/1cdeuke/bidens_comments_for_trump_in_2020_during_a/) ....oh wait.
He found a time machine and [made the statement in 2020.](https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/comments/1cdeuke/bidens_comments_for_trump_in_2020_during_a/)
Keeping this war going serves three purposes one is allowing Netanyahu to cling to office like Trump, two to give cover to slaughter their enemy like Israels right wing extremists have always wanted gloves off, and three the political protests and student sentiment on U.S. college campuses being mostly pro - Palestinian drives a wedge between students and the Biden administration as well as diminishing voter turnout for the young, which plays into the hands of Netanyahu’s master plan of using our most useful simple idiot Donald The Orange for any needed political purpose in the foreseeable future.
>“No, Mr Netanyahu. It is not antisemitic or pro-Hamas to point out that in a little over six months your extremist government has killed 34,000 Palestinians and wounded more than 77,000 – seventy percent of whom are women and children. It is not antisemitic to point out that your bombing has completely destroyed more than 221,000 housing units in Gaza, leaving more than one million people homeless – almost half the population,” Mr Sanders said.
>The Vermont Senator — an independent who caucuses with Senate Democrats — continued that it was “not antisemitic” to say that the Israeli government “has obliterated Gaza’s civilian infrastructure – electricity, water, and sewage” or “to realize that your government has annihilated Gaza’s health care system, knocking 26 hospitals out of service and killing more than 400 health care workers”.
>“It is not antisemitic to agree with virtually every humanitarian organization in saying that your government, in violation of American law, has unreasonably blocked humanitarian aid coming into Gaza, creating the conditions in which hundreds of thousands of children face malnutrition and famine,” he continued.
>Sanders closed the statement by again addressing the Israeli leader directly and calling antisemitism “a vile and disgusting form of bigotry that has done unspeakable harm to many millions of people”.
>“But, please, do not insult the intelligence of the American people by attempting to distract us from the immoral and illegal war policies of your extremist and racist government. Do not use antisemitism to deflect attention from the criminal indictment you are facing in the Israeli courts. It is not antisemitic to hold you accountable for your actions,” he said.
[Mr. Netanyahu, do not insult the intelligence of the American people.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzhdPsCgrjU)
Let’s say just for the sake of argument that protesting the Palestinian genocide is somehow antisemitic hate speech. This is the USA and like it or not hate speech is in fact protected under the first amendment. As long as there are no actual threats of violence being issued you can stand on the streets and say the worst things imaginable about any marginalized group you want and the worst they can get you on is maybe loitering and disturbing the peace.
Point is, these protests are a perfect example of American free speech and they are getting shut down because people don’t like when they’re saying. If you do a pro Israel protest for some reason, I’m sure that’d be fine. But you dare question the beloved and perfect Netanyahu?! Jail. Right away.
The leader of the Columbia protest encampment is on video saying "Zionists don't deserve to live" and "Be grateful I'm not out there murdering Zionists."
I voted for Bernie in multiple primaries, but I am so done with him on this.
I appreciate Sanders' message, but he's looking at the protests with rose-colored glasses.
It's the hypocrisy that bothers me - from the pro-Palestinian activists claiming to support women's rights while siding with Iran & downplaying Hamas' sexual violence, and from the right-wing purported "free speech" supporters who are suddenly nowhere to be seen.
I've seen this meme shared dozens of times on Reddit and Twitter: https://twitter.com/AdameMedia/status/1742684169862263073 - a screenshot of released Israeli hostage Mia Schem taken during an interview, with a fake quote, "they refused to rape me, which felt like emotional rape." The intended message is clear - to gleefully mock the suffering of Israeli women, and imply that they desired to be violated by their captors.
On International Women's Day in my city, a group of pro-Palestinian activists held a protest to condemn purported abuses committed against Palestinian women by the IDF. While I didn't listen to all the speeches (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYjSxG8SIL0), from what I listened to I heard zero concern for (or mention of) the actions of Hamas on October 7 or the female Israeli hostages currently held by Hamas. The projection strikes me as over the top - it's like listening to someone claim they're voting for Trump because Biden's a rapist.
That's some of what I've observed personally - on a national level, I've noticed plenty of activists term Hamas's actions on October 7 as justified resistance - yet not acknowledge what those actions consisted of:
[The Rape Denialists: Why has it proved so hard for so many on the left to acknowledge what happened on October 7?](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/04/october-7-hamas-sexual-assault/678091/)
(non-paywall URL: https://archive.is/LS48z)
Well, for starters he's uncritically repeating the unverified and statistically dubious numbers of "33,000 dead" of which 70% are allegedly "women and children". These numbers come from Hamas officials, and unlike in previous conflicts are not being independently verified by NGOs. Notoriously, Hamas won't even distinguish between civilians and combatants in its casualty numbers.
The Gazan Health Ministry admits that since December it has been relying on "reliable media sources" rather than medical records, and just last week admitted that it didn't even have complete medical records - including names - for a third of the reported casualties. Multiple independent data analysts have now stated that the reported figures are statistically implausible, rising in an almost linear manner despite lulls and peaks in fighting, and with the proportion reported as "women and children" almost bang on 70% every day. In other words, they are being fudged.
And yet these numbers are dutifully parroted by the media, and by progressives. In fact, like Bernie just did, many people don't even bother noting that a significant proportion of the casualties are actually combatants, because that would make Israel look less like a monster.
The same is true of numerous other canards, like the number of journalists killed (these figures are also reported by Hamas since most are supposedly workers for Hamas' own media organisation), or the "refugee camps" being hit (neighbourhoods of Gaza indistinguishable from anywhere else as they were established in 1949 and only keep "refugee status" for UNRWA aid), or the "dumb munitions" line (which ignores the fact, attested to by military experts, that dive bombing dumb bombs is almost as accurate as smart bombs, but is generally not done anymore since the West usually fights against enemies with SAMs).
Even just this week the president of the ICJ pointed out that they had *not* found genocide accusations were "plausible" despite reporting to that effect, but rather that Palestinians had the right to be protected against genocide and that S Africa had standing to bring the case to the ICJ.
Hamas can't win militarily. Its chief theatre of operations is the information war against Israel, and it is doing extremely well at that since well intentioned useful idiots like Sanders are so susceptible to propaganda and a narrative that fits their own priors.
Why are they not being verified by NGOs? Is it because Isreali aggression in Gaza is so unpredictable that aid workers can't even operate safely while in coordination with the IDF?
So what if the numbers are "fudged" as you say? Even if we cut them in half, it is still an atrocity in which Israel is fully capable of stopping at any time.
Do you know what Israel can do to turn the tide in the information war? Listen to nearly all of the rest of the world which has not even told them to stop completely. Just stop killing and destroying infrastructure on such a large scale and give space for a peaceful two state solution to be worked towards. Because in the end, waging war for peace in the manner Israel has been doing is like fucking for virginity.
Also, stop letting Alex Jones infect your thinking.
After October 7, Israel has the right to defend itself to destroy the Hamas regime and to rescue the hostages.
Most people don't appreciate, or can't be bothered appreciating, the realities of what waging war in a crowded urban environment against an enemy embedded in tunnels that doesn't wear uniforms, and which operates out of and underneath hospitals, actually means.
Instead, it's just vague handwaving that Israel ought to be fighting more "selectively", without the slightest concrete idea of what the would actually look like.
Language like "genocide" or "atrocity" is being weaponised to force Israel to fight with one arm tied behind its back, or to stop fighting and let Hamas reconstitute itself. Peace activists are unwittingly working to give Hamas the win.
Also, Alex Jones can go fuck himself.
Why do they keep bombing areas they told civilians to evacuate to? Why are the blocking and fucking with aid? How do the bombardments help get the hostages back safely? How does any of this lead to peace?
Israel has the right to DEFEND itself. Nothing it is doing right now is defensive. So spare me your own vague hand waving about how people advocating for peace are aiding terrorists.
Let's break down some of his points:
- He's taking the casualty numbers (34,000/77,000) and refuses to distinguish between Hamas terrorists and civilian deaths. This is free advertising for Hamas and the way they want the numbers to be presented - at face value directly from their "health" ministry.
- Refusing to acknowledge ANY protesters who assaulted Jewish students on campus (including the eye stabbing with the Palestinian flag, feel free to google that), waving and wearing Hamas and Hezbollah flags and clothing, and chanting phrases like "Oct. 7th every day" and "There is only 1 solution, Intifada révolution" amongst other completely indefensible rhetoric.
- Refusing to give Hamas or Iran any complicity of culpability in this mess. Why are both of those entities praising the campus protests now? Are they perhaps useful idiots to them?
-----------
I hate Bibi as much as anybody who's lived to see his 13+ years of Israeli leadership descend into power-drunk madness. Most of Israelis being polled these days would vote the guy out, and rightfully so.
What we see here does not do anything to progress the Palestinian cause (assuming the cause is centered on Peace, security, and coexistence in a 2-state solution). If the real cause is actually to infloct more misery and terrorism on Israel and letting Hamas continue to subject the entire Gazan population to being human meat shields at the best of times, and active supporters of Jewish genocide at the worst of times then by all means continue all the nonsense we see being written here.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
One of the things I like most about Bernie Sanders is his moral consistency, even when it’s not politically expedient. It shouldn’t be controversial to think killing tens of thousands of noncombatants is wrong and I’m glad he’s being vocal about it.
I think John Boehner once said Bernie was the most honest person in Congress.
Which is why both parties continually sabotage his presidential runs. An honest man is a dangerous one.
How did the Republicans sabotage his runs?
Eh, by making half the country believe socialism is a foreign evil and letting rich people do whatever they want is best for us
That's not just republicans though lol.
That was just what Republicans have been doing for many decades, not anything specific to Bernie's run for president.
Who do you think hacked the DNC and leaked certain documents?
That was done to sabotage Hillary Clinton's campaign, not Bernie's (they would likely have gone after his campaign instead if he was in the lead), and the general consensus these days I think is that "Guccifer 2.0" was probably a front for Russia's GRU. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guccifer\_2.0](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guccifer_2.0)
lol yeah people out here like “democrats are sabotaging decent people like Bernie! Vote against democrats!” Meanwhile the only other party has core values absolutely incompatible with his views and that of any kind of peaceful resolution to this war.
Having an accurate understanding of what happened in 2016 is important. Republicans are guilty of a lot, but it was specifically the DNC that went out of their way to stop Bernie. The Democratic party has at least partially reformed themselves since. They've blocked superdelegates from voting in the first round, and also the level of vitriol against Bernie has gone way down since Biden became president. Biden treats Bernie like a normal and important part of the Democratic caucus, and that set the tone for everyone else. Personally, I think Trump and the MAGA Republicans just don't know how to react to Bernie. He doesn't fit with their notions of a liberal elite villain, so he kind of gets a free pass from them.
“The thing about Bernie, by the way, is that he is probably the most honest person to ever run for president, ever. We came into Congress together, and I can tell you, he genuinely believes all the crazy s*** he says. So he may be nuts, but at least he's not cynical -- and a non-cynical politician is rare no matter how you slice it," Boehner writes. Sort of a compliment.
No jimmy carter
It’s reassuring to hear someone of Bernie’s stature publicly call this guy out, and speak for humanness and basic decency.
I would say he is the most Moral person in the Senate
Ever since I heard his name as a teen, I’ve never really been disappointed. Dude is the real deal.
Still Sanders. Also, I think AOC is following his footsteps. I truly believe AOC is going to be just as good, if not better than Bernie Sanders. I have a lot of faith in her.
I don’t think anybody’s gonna say Bernie’s being antisemitic.
The fact that - somehow, incredibly - *criticism* of a *nation-state* immediately transmogrifies into *existential hatred* of an *ethnicity* will never stop making me think I'm taking crazy pills. It's like if I discussed the crimes of Mobutu Sese Seko and the next day everyone was talking about me joining the KKK.
I already interacted with someone today who accused him of defending antisemitism.
Must’ve been an idiot
Absolutely.
I love Bernie so much. He’s a consistent voice in a largely immoral word.
He's been on the right side of history his entire political career.
It also shouldn’t be antisemitic to state that this is wrong. Bernie being able to say this, without being accused of antisemitism because he’s jewish, while gentiles saying the same thing are not, shows how flimsy some of the antisemitism accusations are. I feel like motivating Israel to stop indiscriminate destruction of civilian lives, homes and infrastructure is *supporting* Israel. This war is turning *world* opinion against one of the few democracies in the region. Killing the last few HAMAS members is not a victory, if the trail of dead children and innocent civilians undermines support of Israel everywhere.
What is his solution? Leave Gaza to rebuild and try another attack once more which they're going to as they literally stated they will? I hate the fact that this many people died, but I just don't see how anything but actually getting rid of Hammas will resolve the issue in the future of the threat of Hammas. And no, simply "freeing Palestine" will not work because Hammas literally has stated it wants to get rid of Israel in it's totality.
Do you think if Israel "got rid" of Hamas, it would end there? Do you feel certain that Israel's relentless attacks on civilians won't end up breeding any future extremists?
Well, Israel seems to be planning on killing ‘em all this time around. Seems they’ve incorporated your criticism.
Just like the West Bank is free from militaristic militants with actual ability to arm themselves I don't see why it wouldn't he possible to do the same to Gaza which is even smaller in size. Of course, you can't get rid of a ideology just like Germany wasn't able to fully get rid of Nazis altogether, but it is possible to functionally remove them as an credible threat. This argument is posed as a proverbial check mate to anyone trying to justify invading Gaza, but it completely negates the reality that ideologies can be effectively removed from any real power even if they still exist.
You’re ignoring the fact that the West Bank demilitarized and now they’re at the mercy of armed settlers who routinely launch pogroms against them and an Israeli military that’s taking their land piece by piece to create more settlements. If that’s the future Gaza has to look forward to, no shit they’d rather keep fighting
So, genocide is the answer?
It's not genoice if deaths aren't intentional and arguably a invasion will yield large civilian casualties regardless if your aim is subdue an an entire densely populated area. The genocide claim isn't proven and the international courts have rejected that claim for what that is worth.
Yeah the IDF didn't intentionally kill those people buried in a mass grave with their hands tied behind their backs, that was just a whoopsie. A bit too on the nose to have Hitler in your username
Ah yes, because it's been confirmed it's been Israel. Oh wait, it hasn't.
People die in wars. It is sad, and unavoidable if war is unavoidable. There are valid reasons to be critical of Israel's policies in west bank, but the plain fact is that Israel is defending itself. Defending itself against a group of people with one goal: genocide. A group of people who commit genocidal acts knowing that 2million people around them will suffer for it. Sanders is consistent, and honest, and I've voted for him in every primary I could. But on this issue, he's naive. If palestinians lay down their arms (and Israel comes correct regarding west bank settlements) there will be peace. If israel lays down its arms, there will be no Israel.
You defend yourself by tying up medical workers in scrubs and executing them to leave in mass graves, with their zip ties still attached?
> “No, Mr Netanyahu. It is not antisemitic or pro-Hamas to point out that in a little over six months your extremist government has killed 34,000 Palestinians and wounded more than 77,000 – seventy percent of whom are women and children. It is not antisemitic to point out that your bombing has completely destroyed more than 221,000 housing units in Gaza, leaving more than one million people homeless – almost half the population,” Mr Sanders said. It’s reassuring to hear someone of Bernie’s stature publicly call this fuck out, and speak for humanness and basic decency.
In another universe we’d be in the tail end of Bernie’s second term as president. I wonder what that world looks like.
In another universe, the Cuban Missile Crisis escalated to WWII and most of the world was bombed by nuclear weapons, having the little remaining people who survived try to rebuild society. Can you change the past? Alternative history is pointless.
Not everything needs a point
I suck at history, but I’m pretty sure the Cuban Missile Crisis was after WWII. Also, it’s kind of funny to me that you chose to make your point by describing something pretty close to the plot of Fallout. Maybe that was intentional, but imo Fallout franchise is an example of something tangible resulting from imagining alternative history, and thus the exercise is far from pointless. The video games and now series are quite successful and captivating the imagination of millions is a very worthwhile activity.
I miswrote that. It should have been WWIII. My point is that alternative history is pointless. There's nothing that can be changed about the past. The reason why we study history is to recreate the good and avoid the bad that's happened, so we can all have a better future. Bernie Sanders is never going to be President. That's done now. Focus on the future.
Bernie described Netanyahu as a war criminal, and the extremist leader of a racist government.
Netanyahu can go to hell. Americans are still free to express themselves. This isn’t what 1938 Germany looks like. It’s what a democracy looks like.
2024 Germany doesn’t want people expressing themselves
Good, fuck Bibi's war criminal ass.
One day that will come all too soon we won’t have Bernie and that sucks. This man has conviction and honor and I appreciate him for it.
Glad Sanders is saying this. Netanyahu demonstrates that he cares little for our First Amendment, while cynically using it to smear human & student rights activists.
Great statement. Awesome how he can still dial up the bad ass at his age. He is one of the GOAT politicians at speaking truth to power.
He phrased this absolutely to the point. Some groups make you out for antisemite if you condemn actions of Bibi and his ugly crowd (IDF first and foremost, then some Knesset members).
Good for Bernie wee need more like him.
Here's Biden [speaking truth to power supporting the protests](https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/comments/1cdeuke/bidens_comments_for_trump_in_2020_during_a/) ....oh wait.
Waiting for Biden’s statement.
He found a time machine and [made the statement in 2020.](https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/comments/1cdeuke/bidens_comments_for_trump_in_2020_during_a/)
As always sanders hits the nail right on the head!
Bernie would make a great POTUS. A man of the people always. It's a shame that is unlikely to happen.
Thank you, Bernie.
These police cities are wild. No need for rubber bullets and snipers at a student protest.
Keeping this war going serves three purposes one is allowing Netanyahu to cling to office like Trump, two to give cover to slaughter their enemy like Israels right wing extremists have always wanted gloves off, and three the political protests and student sentiment on U.S. college campuses being mostly pro - Palestinian drives a wedge between students and the Biden administration as well as diminishing voter turnout for the young, which plays into the hands of Netanyahu’s master plan of using our most useful simple idiot Donald The Orange for any needed political purpose in the foreseeable future.
Everything he said in that article is true
I’m still feeling’ the Bern!
Attaboy Bernie!
Thank you Bernie.
>“No, Mr Netanyahu. It is not antisemitic or pro-Hamas to point out that in a little over six months your extremist government has killed 34,000 Palestinians and wounded more than 77,000 – seventy percent of whom are women and children. It is not antisemitic to point out that your bombing has completely destroyed more than 221,000 housing units in Gaza, leaving more than one million people homeless – almost half the population,” Mr Sanders said. >The Vermont Senator — an independent who caucuses with Senate Democrats — continued that it was “not antisemitic” to say that the Israeli government “has obliterated Gaza’s civilian infrastructure – electricity, water, and sewage” or “to realize that your government has annihilated Gaza’s health care system, knocking 26 hospitals out of service and killing more than 400 health care workers”. >“It is not antisemitic to agree with virtually every humanitarian organization in saying that your government, in violation of American law, has unreasonably blocked humanitarian aid coming into Gaza, creating the conditions in which hundreds of thousands of children face malnutrition and famine,” he continued. >Sanders closed the statement by again addressing the Israeli leader directly and calling antisemitism “a vile and disgusting form of bigotry that has done unspeakable harm to many millions of people”. >“But, please, do not insult the intelligence of the American people by attempting to distract us from the immoral and illegal war policies of your extremist and racist government. Do not use antisemitism to deflect attention from the criminal indictment you are facing in the Israeli courts. It is not antisemitic to hold you accountable for your actions,” he said. [Mr. Netanyahu, do not insult the intelligence of the American people.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzhdPsCgrjU)
Bernie knows this is all about crushing any descent that might jeopardize the interests of the military industrial complex.
Let’s say just for the sake of argument that protesting the Palestinian genocide is somehow antisemitic hate speech. This is the USA and like it or not hate speech is in fact protected under the first amendment. As long as there are no actual threats of violence being issued you can stand on the streets and say the worst things imaginable about any marginalized group you want and the worst they can get you on is maybe loitering and disturbing the peace. Point is, these protests are a perfect example of American free speech and they are getting shut down because people don’t like when they’re saying. If you do a pro Israel protest for some reason, I’m sure that’d be fine. But you dare question the beloved and perfect Netanyahu?! Jail. Right away.
[удалено]
The leader of the Columbia protest encampment is on video saying "Zionists don't deserve to live" and "Be grateful I'm not out there murdering Zionists." I voted for Bernie in multiple primaries, but I am so done with him on this.
I appreciate Sanders' message, but he's looking at the protests with rose-colored glasses. It's the hypocrisy that bothers me - from the pro-Palestinian activists claiming to support women's rights while siding with Iran & downplaying Hamas' sexual violence, and from the right-wing purported "free speech" supporters who are suddenly nowhere to be seen.
Can I have an example of someone explicitly downplaying sexual violence committed by Hamas?
I've seen this meme shared dozens of times on Reddit and Twitter: https://twitter.com/AdameMedia/status/1742684169862263073 - a screenshot of released Israeli hostage Mia Schem taken during an interview, with a fake quote, "they refused to rape me, which felt like emotional rape." The intended message is clear - to gleefully mock the suffering of Israeli women, and imply that they desired to be violated by their captors. On International Women's Day in my city, a group of pro-Palestinian activists held a protest to condemn purported abuses committed against Palestinian women by the IDF. While I didn't listen to all the speeches (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYjSxG8SIL0), from what I listened to I heard zero concern for (or mention of) the actions of Hamas on October 7 or the female Israeli hostages currently held by Hamas. The projection strikes me as over the top - it's like listening to someone claim they're voting for Trump because Biden's a rapist. That's some of what I've observed personally - on a national level, I've noticed plenty of activists term Hamas's actions on October 7 as justified resistance - yet not acknowledge what those actions consisted of: [The Rape Denialists: Why has it proved so hard for so many on the left to acknowledge what happened on October 7?](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/04/october-7-hamas-sexual-assault/678091/) (non-paywall URL: https://archive.is/LS48z)
Oh, wow I wonder if he's related to the president of Antifa?
More evidence that Hamas continue to play the American Left like a fiddle....
Explain exactly what Bernie said that is untrue.
Well, for starters he's uncritically repeating the unverified and statistically dubious numbers of "33,000 dead" of which 70% are allegedly "women and children". These numbers come from Hamas officials, and unlike in previous conflicts are not being independently verified by NGOs. Notoriously, Hamas won't even distinguish between civilians and combatants in its casualty numbers. The Gazan Health Ministry admits that since December it has been relying on "reliable media sources" rather than medical records, and just last week admitted that it didn't even have complete medical records - including names - for a third of the reported casualties. Multiple independent data analysts have now stated that the reported figures are statistically implausible, rising in an almost linear manner despite lulls and peaks in fighting, and with the proportion reported as "women and children" almost bang on 70% every day. In other words, they are being fudged. And yet these numbers are dutifully parroted by the media, and by progressives. In fact, like Bernie just did, many people don't even bother noting that a significant proportion of the casualties are actually combatants, because that would make Israel look less like a monster. The same is true of numerous other canards, like the number of journalists killed (these figures are also reported by Hamas since most are supposedly workers for Hamas' own media organisation), or the "refugee camps" being hit (neighbourhoods of Gaza indistinguishable from anywhere else as they were established in 1949 and only keep "refugee status" for UNRWA aid), or the "dumb munitions" line (which ignores the fact, attested to by military experts, that dive bombing dumb bombs is almost as accurate as smart bombs, but is generally not done anymore since the West usually fights against enemies with SAMs). Even just this week the president of the ICJ pointed out that they had *not* found genocide accusations were "plausible" despite reporting to that effect, but rather that Palestinians had the right to be protected against genocide and that S Africa had standing to bring the case to the ICJ. Hamas can't win militarily. Its chief theatre of operations is the information war against Israel, and it is doing extremely well at that since well intentioned useful idiots like Sanders are so susceptible to propaganda and a narrative that fits their own priors.
Why are they not being verified by NGOs? Is it because Isreali aggression in Gaza is so unpredictable that aid workers can't even operate safely while in coordination with the IDF? So what if the numbers are "fudged" as you say? Even if we cut them in half, it is still an atrocity in which Israel is fully capable of stopping at any time. Do you know what Israel can do to turn the tide in the information war? Listen to nearly all of the rest of the world which has not even told them to stop completely. Just stop killing and destroying infrastructure on such a large scale and give space for a peaceful two state solution to be worked towards. Because in the end, waging war for peace in the manner Israel has been doing is like fucking for virginity. Also, stop letting Alex Jones infect your thinking.
After October 7, Israel has the right to defend itself to destroy the Hamas regime and to rescue the hostages. Most people don't appreciate, or can't be bothered appreciating, the realities of what waging war in a crowded urban environment against an enemy embedded in tunnels that doesn't wear uniforms, and which operates out of and underneath hospitals, actually means. Instead, it's just vague handwaving that Israel ought to be fighting more "selectively", without the slightest concrete idea of what the would actually look like. Language like "genocide" or "atrocity" is being weaponised to force Israel to fight with one arm tied behind its back, or to stop fighting and let Hamas reconstitute itself. Peace activists are unwittingly working to give Hamas the win. Also, Alex Jones can go fuck himself.
Why do they keep bombing areas they told civilians to evacuate to? Why are the blocking and fucking with aid? How do the bombardments help get the hostages back safely? How does any of this lead to peace? Israel has the right to DEFEND itself. Nothing it is doing right now is defensive. So spare me your own vague hand waving about how people advocating for peace are aiding terrorists.
“Everything I don’t like is Hamas”
"Everything I don't like is genocide"
Nice. I see what you did, that’s pretty clever for you.
I heard they were using Bernie as a human shield /s
Better go beat some college kids to a pulp!
Huh, so you disagree that it's wrong to kill civilians and children?
Let's break down some of his points: - He's taking the casualty numbers (34,000/77,000) and refuses to distinguish between Hamas terrorists and civilian deaths. This is free advertising for Hamas and the way they want the numbers to be presented - at face value directly from their "health" ministry. - Refusing to acknowledge ANY protesters who assaulted Jewish students on campus (including the eye stabbing with the Palestinian flag, feel free to google that), waving and wearing Hamas and Hezbollah flags and clothing, and chanting phrases like "Oct. 7th every day" and "There is only 1 solution, Intifada révolution" amongst other completely indefensible rhetoric. - Refusing to give Hamas or Iran any complicity of culpability in this mess. Why are both of those entities praising the campus protests now? Are they perhaps useful idiots to them? ----------- I hate Bibi as much as anybody who's lived to see his 13+ years of Israeli leadership descend into power-drunk madness. Most of Israelis being polled these days would vote the guy out, and rightfully so. What we see here does not do anything to progress the Palestinian cause (assuming the cause is centered on Peace, security, and coexistence in a 2-state solution). If the real cause is actually to infloct more misery and terrorism on Israel and letting Hamas continue to subject the entire Gazan population to being human meat shields at the best of times, and active supporters of Jewish genocide at the worst of times then by all means continue all the nonsense we see being written here.
I’m sick of hearing about israel.