Honestly, I'm with you here. I hate Elon as much as the next guy but "Haha, he doesn't have a wife" is not helping.
Make fun of his tendency to take credit for others work or willingness to accept extremism while calling it "Free Speech".
The point of the joke highlights the fact women get tired of him and leave. How crappy do you have to be for the people with the most to gain to leave you every relationship. It speaks to Elon not being as dope behind closed doors as Elon fanboys like to think.
Building and maintaining a family is way more impressive than being a rich male whore for 7's and below if were being honest. Elon is the king lame for other lames who need money/power in order to have casual sex.
I can understand that. That makes a bit more sense. It just seemed like people were saying he's bad because he can't get a girl rather than he's bad because he promotes bigotry and is a narcissist.
Those tendencies aren’t consequences though. We are laughing at him because his shittery has actually had repercussions on his personal life, as being a shitter should.
Bro, your wife is supposed to be the LAST person on earth to leave you because of how close and loved the pair are to each other. When that role in your life is a revolving door from which everyone leaving has nothing nice to say about you, and what they say matches up with everything you're doing in public, well............
Let's just say it's pretty easy to draw conclusions.
I mean, when you are aligning with "the party of family values" and your dad hates you and your kids hate you and your one of the most divorced dads in history........you've kind of failed.
You realize that you're saying Musk only gets paid because of gold diggers right? Like you're saying that women don't want to be married to him but want to have his kids, why do you think that is?
The ex's are milking his money in alimony and support payments. Musk is a moron and doesn't see that these people are using him for the bankroll from day 1.
And you yourself are also an idiot.
No it's him making repeated sexual advances on employees and inappropriately asking them to Father his children, as well as using his position to pressure them into sexual relationships and exposing himself to them without their consent
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No idea how people fell for that egomaniac. His takes were moronic from the start. From his Solar City scams, to all his loop projects (hyperloop, dugout loop, etc), to naming himself founder of Tesla or his whole fucking mars colonization.
Well, SPX is literally the most successful aerospace company.... ever... and it's not even close.
Also he didn't "name himself" a founder of Tesla. Pre-Musk Tesla has a history of about 6 months total where approximately nothing substantial was done besides raising money and doing the most basic (non-specific to Tesla or proprietary) research to scout for basics like component vendors, etc. Plus a lot of that money they raised was his. **If Musk isn't a founder of Tesla, then no one can be a founder of any company unless they were literally physically present when the idea to create a company was made.** Not "the idea of the company/the idea for the product", just "the idea TO for a company", because there were NO like, specific engineering ideas involved at the pre-Musk stage of Tesla. That part ramped up after the money was raised which is to say after Musk was brought on. d
Musk came up with the entire "grand plan"/"road map to success" for Tesla from the beginning and was just flat out in charge and in the thick of everything at Tesla up all through the most crazy and hyper risky milestones up through Model Y deliveries starting at least before he started losing focus and going down what was then the alt-right rabbit hole. He bet **everything** he had left on SPX and Tesla in the middle of the 08 financial crisis when he was 95% both companies would fail and he would lose ALL of it just because he couldn't stomach giving up on either of them and had to at least try.
Just because he turned drastically for the worse doesn't mean he was a *fraud* the whole time. Do you ALSO believe his dad was a billionaire diamond/emerald mine baron who left his wealth to Elon? Did you also believe that lie? Then you're probably the type of person who can't just admit that life is complex and a person you think is evil, who probably is, is therefore entirely devoid of any merit whatsoever and was a fraud the whole time who fools EVERYONE, not just you.
*No Musk's father wasn't a diamond or emerald baron. His parents were like high upper middle class, but in a poor country. They were upper professional class, like engineer and I think his mom was a doctor or medical something... or writer? Idk and idc but they were normal albeit successful and well educated and in SA.
The diamond mine/emerald mine thing came from this one time his father, a terrible person and liar, but this has been investigated and fact checked, had a client who was unable to pay him in liquid cash for some reason, it's like 70s-80s Africa after all, unstable banking and financial services... so the client pays Musk's father with a quantity of shares/equity in an emerald mine in different country, I think Zimbabwe, **of an equivalent value to what he owed him**.
Do you people understand? An amount of stock/equity in a mine worth whatever unremarkable sum this person was paying Musk's father for some amount of professional work, so knowing roughly their family wealth (millions, but not many millions), it almost certainly wasn't worth more than 5 figures tops. Now would you really.... *really* say it is truthful to now call Elon Musk "heir to an emerald mine" or "from a family of white emerald mine owners in Africa"?? Or is that so removed from the truth that it's the same thing as a lie? In your heart of hearts?
Yeah it's not a thing, the emerald mine. He father once lied and claimed he owned an emerald mine and that's probably was started this, but it was a lie... and it's been well documented as much since WELL before the current PR campaign to paint Musk as a worthless fraud who couldn't pass college calculus and a fucking white African emerald mine heir at that. But it just sounds sooooo good if you want to discredit him.
In reality his father got like, a tour at some point, of the mine, and like a big emerald as a keepsake and that's about it. Because his father was gifted some stock by a client who couldn't pay his fee.
This also kind of destroys the "Musk inherited billions" idea. Also literally just a lie since the emerald thing isn't true and his family had no billions to give him. This inheritance never existed. And both his parents are still alive any way.
If you believe the emerald thing or that Musk is just a total fraud, then you're so removed from reality that you don't really get to have a say anyone takes seriously in the actual complex topic of what exactly Musk has achieved at SPX or Tesla. Like, you're just not in the game. And if your knowledge of this man is essentially nothing at all, I can assume that's your knowledge roughly of SPX and Tesla too. Like, their operations and history and what not and what they are worth and have accomplished.
Elon:
Helped create the online payment system
Established the electric car industry
Reignited the space industry
Brought internet to all corners of the world
Is paving the way for paralyzed people to walk again and possibly cure most mental illnesses
Has a shitty personality
Random redditors:
Hate musk so much it's become a literal obsession.
He did help to establish PayPal which is great, and he has drawn public attention back to spaceflight while getting his scientists to advance the field, but the 3 other statements are misleading.
- He didn't establish the electric car industry. He was not the first person making them, nor is he making the highest quality EVs. Electric vehicles would be here with or without him, it's just that Elon Musk is famous so people often think Tesla when they think of electric vehicles. It doesn't mean he established the industry.
- He's gotten more coverage than other satellite internet providers, but that's really it. Starlink coverage isn't global, it's just another satellite internet provider but with a ton of money pumped into it. Props to him for using his money to overcome competitors, but Starlink isn't special.
- Paving the way for paralysed people to walk? Cure mental illnesses? This one is just insane. Neuralink is based off technology that others have developed and that others are currently testing in the same capacity as Elon is. Neuralink isn't special nor is it particularly advanced, Elon isn't the one doing the heavy lifting in the field. Don't misattribute the work of countless researchers to one CEO, and don't overestimate the technology he's using.
I forgot to mention the fact that he's literally spreading conspiracy theories and loosening rules on hate speech (while clamping down on speech he doesn't like) on the social media platform he bought. Do you have any clue how harmful it is to have an unhinged person controlling SOCIAL MEDIA, THE PLACE WHERE PEOPLE INTERACT AND GET INFORMATION FROM? He's doing harm to countless people by spreading dangerous ideologies and villainizing minorities, among many others.
In this digital age, honestly yeah, but that doesn't really stop the fact that the alternative (fact checking literally everything people tell you and reading at least 3 different news articles on the same event to get an unbiased view) is too cumbersome to work for everyone. People like things being easy, so they often hear about something on social media and then don't go through the effort of fact-checking it. Things get bad when someone with wacky ideas controls the means by which people communicate and share ideas/information.
It's amazing how people say he's just a figurehead at his companies, then in the same breath say things like he's the one that's controlling the means by which people communicate.
I don't see don't see dozens of hate subs about Rupert Murdock. Seems like most redditors don't actually care about those who control the narrative.
Everyone hates Rupert Murdoch, but no one says anything about him because he rarely gets headlines. Elon Musk is super famous and an asshole, so naturally there'll be more headlines for people to whine over.
Rupert Murdoch should be getting more hate if you only consider it logically, but that's not really how people work. They see something, they react to something. Elon Musk is constantly in sight, so people constantly react to him. Rupert Murdoch stays in the shadows, so people don't talk about him. That's just how it is.
It seems pretty obvious to me that he bought Twitter out of personal desire, not purely as a business venture, no? He definitely doesn't seem to be personally involved in production processes at his other companies besides telling them "HIGH QUALITY" if the Cybertruck micron fiasco is anything to go by, but at Twitter he's very obviously been personally making major reforms. He's not a scientist or an engineer, he's a CEO who did some programming back in the day. He's fundamentally incapable of being deeply involved with his important companies (not X) if he doesn't want to overreach, which I'll admit he still does.
Who knows the real reasons why he bought Twitter. There's evidence that he has always wanted to create an everything app so it could just as well be for that.
He's literally chief engineer at spacex.
Stop getting your information from social media. Especially reddit.
Google is telling me he's got a BA in physics and a BA in marketing. Does it really make one an engineer if you give yourself the title of engineer in your company?
Not even the major car manufacturers could get any traction on electric vehicles until musk. So no, not misleading.
Lots of rural areas never had access to internet, now they do. Something existing providers can't do.
Neuralink is literally paving the way for companies like the one I work at to exist. Getting brand new intracranial technology through regulations would sink almost all medical start ups. But musks resources make it possible.
I mean I get how you would have all these opinions if you only get your news from redditors but if you talk to people in these industries, they paint a very different story.
What are you on about? It's really easy to look up EV market share and tesla is roughly the 20% in recent years, and that's not counting hybrids. Given that market is about the same size from some cursory research and tesla has no hybrids their share would half. So nine times out of ten someone with an ev/hybrid wouldn't have a tesla?
My friend that lives in rural Virginia uses starlink because nothing else exists that is decent.
Most people around where I live that have EVs use teslas.
1. How do you mean traction? Public interest? If you're specifically saying that Elon 'established' the EV industry by being famous, then sure I guess?
2. 1st result https://www.satelliteinternet.com/resources/high-speed-internet-for-rural-areas/ It's great that he's set up his own satellite internet company to give options to more people, but Starlink is one of many.
3. I dunno, I'm not in the industry but I've been seeing Neuralink type projects do cool stuff all the time. Whether it's in helping paralysed people interact with the world or improving prosthetic limbs, I've been seeing people do it before Musk. It's cool if he's pumping money into the industry now, but that doesn't really make him more than an investor.
1. If all it takes is being famous, why didn't any of the other manufacturers just hire a celebrity to endorse them?
2. https://www.pcmag.com/news/starlink-vs-hughesnet-vs-viasat-which-satellite-internet-provider-is-best
It's like saying a walkie talkie is a competitor to the iPhone.
3. Doing something in the lab, and making something commercially available are two vastly different things. Like astronomically vast.
Marketing is a fickle thing. I don't believe Elon Musk should be glorified on the basis of his fame rubbing off on his products. Keep watch of your backpedaling on the second point, Starlink is big but it's still just a satellite internet company. Is Neuralink also not currently in the lab? He's got no products with Neuralink as of current, as far as I've seen only a test run that's now lost its effectiveness. Great if he does something in the future with it, but not much there yet.
It's not backpeddeling. Look at the coverage area between those satalite providers.
Yes neuralink doesn't have products yet, but as I said, going from lab to product is an astronomical distance. Before musk, nobody was even close to closing that gap.
Come on, "Rural areas never had access to internet"? This is the forsaken land of internet arguments where any minor mistake gets you torn apart! What you're saying now with Starlink is reasonable, props to him for using his resources to give more people internet, but many rural communities had satellite internet before Starlink. Starlink is better, but there were options before it.
I think it isn't good to glorify people based on what their work _may_ lead to. The way I see it outside the industry is that he's done a trial run that lots of people have seen because of his fame, and not much else. It's not something to build an argument on.
I grew up in a rural area that had no high speed internet access options. Now, starlink is the only option for my parents. Many places are in the same boat.
People think Tesla because it was, and continues, to be on the leading edge. The rest are shitboxes with little to nothing to show for the level of price they come with. Most of stuff other than tesla has actual range of 100-150km (not the "tested" range in perfect track and weather conditions, LOL, fuck right off with that BS - show me the range with AC on full blow in worst weather and driving conditions, then we can talk...)
Many other cars meet or exceed the range available in Tesla's models, according to [this random site](https://www.cars.com/articles/electric-vehicles-with-the-longest-range-422227/). Even if these are all in test conditions, one would expect the real-world ranges of all the cars to scale similarly.
Even if we assume you're right, 100-150 miles is probably enough for the vast majority of trips most people will make. Sure, if you're going for a long drive, it might become annoying, but if you're going to work or something and 100-150 miles isn't enough to go both ways, you may be able to charge at your destination (and if your commute is longer than 2 hours.... I feel sorry for you).
Even then, electric cars will hardly save the planet. Cars are pretty inefficient, and even without the gas engine they still pollute plenty. Walking, cycling, and electric trains (none of which need batteries, by the way) are all better ways to get around than electric cars. Unfortunately, most US cities are really only designed for cars, so making them not suck to get around outside of a car is probably the more important thing to focus on. Don't get me wrong, electric cars are a step in the right direction, but they aren't going to solve our transportation problems.
The cybertruck might be the biggest POS to roll off an assembly line ever. Parts are falling off, accelator pedal getting stuck to the floor, doesn't like the car wash, tries to chop off fingers, cuts people open, rusting within days of purchase and too many other problems to list.
There are far better EVs available than a fucking over priced Tesla.
Why does it matter? There are millions of people who are WAY shittier, yet nobody cares about them.
Most people have never heard of Richard Sackler, yet he's arguably killed millions of people.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Sackler
Just seems weird that people are literally obsessed over hating someone who's actually done some good things but just has a shit personality.
Because the millions of people who are way shittier aren’t famous, rich, or influential
*Usually*
Also he didn’t establish the electric car industry. He just popularised it by making electric cars that actually aren’t very good
Also, because other people who are awful exist, does not make Elon Musk any better
It's even more impressive that musk popularized electric vehicles with a bad product, when established car manufacturers couldn't.
I prefer to hate people based on how much they deserve it, not by how famous they are. But that's just me.
I prefer to hate on people for who they choose to be.
I also prefer to separate people from what they create. Hitler’s artwork is quite good (by my standards at least) but that doesn’t make Hitler a good person.
SpaceX and Starlink has done a lot, but it primarily serves Elon Musk’s financial interest, same with Tesla. And it’s clear that he only really cares about money, considering hyperloop, something he admitted to be a scam to try and cancel California HSR so that more people would be dependent on a product he sells
You are seriously comparing someone who brutally murdered millions of people to someone who says controversial things online?
You are clearly getting your talking points from those toxic hate factory subreddits so I don't see the point in continuing this thread.
I mean if you love the bigot billionaire who tried to cancel actual sustainable transport in favour of his own product, and who continues to fund slave camps in Africa mining cobalt to fuel his personal wealth, go ahead
"SpaceX and Starlink has done a lot, but it primarily serves Elon Musk’s financial interest, same with Tesla." yes, this is what all companies are there for, surprised? To serve the financial benefits to their owners.
Want a piece of the cake? Achieve same as he did. He isnt there to cater to you, or to be fair to you. He's there to make money for himself, and his kids - and only that.
>Why does it matter? There are millions of people who are WAY shittier, yet nobody cares about them.
I’m not going to engage with you other than to point out this is one of the *worst* arguments you could have made. Who cares if other people suck? We’re not talking about other people.
“Who cares about this murderer when there are serial killers out there”
The Nissan leaf existed. Chevy spark existed. Ev Priuses existed. Smart cars existed for years. I mean people have had smart cars for such a long time.
Also, Elon didn't even start Tesla. He just jumped in and took over ownership of it
there isn't much data about it since the EV market was really low and was high for petrol vehicles, tesla did help in increasing the interest in EVs and other companies began to produce their own EVs and even hybrid cars but saying that tesla established EVs is overexaggeration as there are a few EVs that existed way back since cars was invented
Plus, if you get out of the American bubble, you're living in you would realize that petrol vehicles are still huge compared everywhere around the worlds as there are lots of different countries that don't have EVs or even Electric charging stations and by the looks of it would take decades for it to start actually spreading around the world and replacing Petrol vehicles
Establishing an industry does not mean he invented evs. You just admitted the industry didn't really exist before. It does now.
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/30/1166921698/eu-zero-emission-cars
Sorry what were you saying about American bubble?
I'm not even American btw.
He did not hate Musk for any of the reasons you mentioned above. As the same for any and all influential men, there are plenty of reasons for one to be hated or loved.
Bro you can literally type Elon musk in YT and see that he’s just a shity dude with money. You can also fact check in google and see everything you said is a fallacy
He didn't help create the online payment system.
The electric car industry is a Band-Aid over what we actually made which is reworking our public transportation infrastructure
The space industry never went away all he did was privatize it and make the government have to pay private companies to do what they used to do themselves
Between stopping California's high speed rail project and pushing for more privatization he's done incalculable damage
5 minutes of googling? I'm literally an economist who worked on economic impact reports unsustainability studies. It's my job to do economic research on Environmental policy. I can tell you that the electric car industry is entirely a Band-Aid trying to reduce our carbon footprint without making widespread infrastructure and societal changes that would actually be required to live sustainably.
But sure tell me how 5 minutes on Google would tell me more than my masters degree and my job
I can only takes 5 minutes can't you find me some evidence to support your theory? Because I could post plenty of evidence showing that electric cars aren't actually a solution to climate change and sustainability
Nobody is arguing electric cars are the solution to climate change. But they are better than the alternative. https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths
Elon Musk is arguing that. In fact the entire electric car Industries built on that presumption. It's why he had to specifically kill the High-Speed Rail Project
Okay Mr smart guy, please show me where musk said electric cars solve climate change.
Also, are you talking about this high speed rail that is still planning to go ahead?
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-03-21/high-speed-rail
The one that musk supposedly killed when he released a white paper on the feasibility of a hyperloop back in 2013 but didn't pursue because he said he didn't have time?
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep09213
https://earthjustice.org/article/electric-vehicles-are-better-for-the-environment
https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2022/11/dont-get-fooled-electric-vehicles-really-are-better-for-the-climate/
https://climate.ec.europa.eu/news-your-voice/news/5-things-you-should-know-about-electric-cars-2024-05-14_en
https://climate.mit.edu/explainers/electric-vehicles
https://civmin.utoronto.ca/can-electric-vehicles-save-the-planet/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/electric-vehicles-beat-gas-cars-on-climate-emissions-over-time/
https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change/
Are you seriously trying to say you know better than these people/organizations?
Bro literally none of these articles disagree with me.
The studies they point up support my hypothesis that it's not an effective or efficient way to reach net zero emissions.
Your scientific America article proves my point better than all of them.
Having an electric car is better than having a gas car. But you know it's better than both of them? Not having a car at all
Yeah notice how he isn't doing any of the actual fucking science. He's just the guy with the money, yes it takes some brain to think it's a good idea to fund these. However, he isn't the engineers designing and building those rockets. He isn't the engineers designing and building those cars. He isn't the engineer who made any of his ideas possible. It doesn't take a genius to sit and think to themselves "what if money but in phone no need to carry money all the time just carry phone", it's takes actually talented and intelligent people to make it actually work.
Here are a few things that suggest musk is involved in the engineering.
First, here's some patents musk himself worked on.
https://patents.justia.com/inventor/elon-musk
Musk then solved an an engineering problem in his 2013 white paper on the hyperloop system.
https://medium.com/@vishresh_2647/redefining-hyperloop-speed-barriers-overcoming-the-kantrowitz-limit-9b6507b1a5af
"Musks’ solution utilizes an air compressor mounted onboard the capsule that would change the path of air. This solution to the Kantrowitz limit paves the way for the Hyperloop to become a reality and eliminates major obstacles."
Here's an interview explaining his role in his companies.
https://www.ycombinator.com/library/6W-elon-musk-on-how-to-build-the-future
"I think a lot of people think I must spend a lot of time with media or on business things but actually almost all my time, 80% of it is spent on engineering and design."
Gwynne Shotwell is Chief Operating Officer. She kind of manages legal finance sales and kind of general business activity and then my time is almost entirely with the engineering team working on improving the Falcon 9 and the Dragon spacecraft and developing the Mars colonial architecture. And then at Tesla, it's working on the Model 3 and some in the design studio typically half a day a week dealing with aesthetics and look and feel things."
This person collected the sources of various spacex staff statements.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/s/9o66sA8PxZ
And if you have time, there are a lot of videos like this and imo they offer the most conclusive evidence that musk is actually involved in the technical side of things. This is musk explaining in detail, how the raptor engines work.
https://youtu.be/E7MQb9Y4FAE?si=MyIaM2hxBT98ghAA
No, Yann is one of the fathers of machine learning so the research his lab is doing is the extension of a lifetime of his own work (very much not like Elon). He is absolutely not the majority contributor to most of those, but I’d wager he’s more involved than you think.
I also work managing an R&D team (I’m not famous unfortunately) and even though I’m delegating work on many different activities I’m very involved with analyzing results, developing theories, evolving algorithms, and the design and execution of the experiments. I just spend more time reading and writing these days than coding, which is personally sad because I love to code.
I keep bringing up his biography in comments because it's showcases when he's making dumb decisions and when he's not.
It also shows that in the past the friction and resistance behind his ideas helped him filter and push on breakthroughs whereas these days he has no one to actually push back because he has a lot more yes men around him. That's dangerous because you end up thinking all your ideas are revolutionary when they're not.
Recency bias is where the assumption is that he's making dumb decisions because on avg he is.
You hear more or what he does and he makes dumber decisions.
Where you heard little about him except his breakthroughs a decade ago.
There are many reasons to hate Musk. He scammed his way to the top from the get go. As a scientist myself I find it immensely saddening that so many people fell for his scams.
From solar city to his loops to his mars colonization. Add on top of that his egomaniac personality like him insisting on calling himself the founder of tesla or if you want to venture into conspiracy theories his involvement in the regime change in Argentina for access to lithium.
To the top? You mean like the money top? Then no, he didn't "scam it" there. He got his money from running or participating in running of the successful public companies that made billions of dollars by selling goods people happily purchase. Did/does he also push stupid, controversial and even scam-like things? Yes, he does. You see, it's not the "people who fell for him" who have bias, it's the haters who do. I like what he did with Tesla, SpaceX and even Twitter, while seeing all his downsides and toxicity, while you only see the downsides and choose to pretend there were no achievements or pretend they don't matter or pretend his participation didn't matter.
No, I literally mean scamming and legally very gray stuff. Honestly, I do think people like Elon Musk are an immense danger for democracy as they are powerful enough to openly pressurize legislation in their favour (as e.g happened at covid lockdown in California). By the year 2015 his companies got roughly 5 billion dollars of government subsidies and that was years before his hype in the later years.
And yeah, stuff like his mars colonization, solarcity and all of his loops were very obvious scams.
> stuff like his mars colonization, solarcity and all of his loops were very obvious scams.
No, they were not, because scam assumes getting someone's money and giving nothing or subpar thing in return. None of this is applicable to the examples above. Moreover, none of the above was what got him to the top.
I understand what you are trying to say – they were fads, delusions, maybe even diversions as in case of loops. But the way you try to frame them together is not correct.
Moreover, the problem I have with you and people like you is not that you call out those things, for what it's worth do call out Elon Musks BS. But pretending like his input was not central to Tesla or SpaceX is as delusional as those ideas you call out.
SolarCity was a huge disaster that he got sued for, his loops blocked the expansion of environmentally friendly public transportation while having an absolutely subpar capacity, his whole Mars colonization got nowhere and only brought people into trivializing climate change and Tesla sells mediocre, overpriced cars. On top of the he got ridiculous amount of subsidies, heavily lobbied (e.g Tesla factory in California during covid lockdown) and continuously evades paying taxes. So no, I don´t really see the positives about him. Furthermore (especially as a scientist myself) I think the false security that people like him generate about our current technological abilities are very dangerous.
Who exactly has he scammed in these 3 examples of yours. Scamming 101 generally involves taking money from someone knowing that you aren't going to be delivering the agreed upon product. The mars colonization project is being paid completely out of his own pocket. His only contribution to "his loops" are writing a paper on it and releasing it to the public, then hosting some student competitions to bring attention to the idea. Again, no money claimed from anyone. Solar city wasn't even run by musk, they failed to make money and their assets where brought by tesla at the verge of bankruptcy. What's the problem there?
Who exactly are the victims who he scammed?
Just read my other comments. I keep going in circles with the Musk cult here, so I´ll just leave it as is. So far, I was 100% right on my predictions with him and looking at the current trend, I doubt that that will change in the future.
Let's not pretend he didn't have a shitload of start up capital from daddy's emerald mines. It's not all that impressive to make it to the top when you have a safety net to keep trying if/when you fail.
Again. I am not pretending anything. He had a good load of start up capital. It does not change his central input in such a uniquie and important companies as Tesla and SpaceX. And yes, it is impressive. Pretending that it is not impressive is self-lies because you don't like other shitty stuff he did/does.
Nah, it's really not. Success when you can take 1000 shots at the target isn't really all that impressive to me. It's pretty easy to make something of yourself when there's no consequences for failing.
I'd argue someone coming from poverty and ending up with 150k annual salary is more impressive to me. But then again, I don't dickride any billionaires because I'm pretty sure they're all sociopaths and at the absolute bare minimum fucking parasites on society.
Claiming that the person who has founded the lab, hires, educates, and supervises grad students and advises his researchers and gives them ideas does "none of the work" is a bit misleading.
Yes, when I publish a paper then I did the lions share of the work. But the idea about the paper almost always came from a discussion with my supervisor.
I can not believe that Musk had a similar level of input on the workings of SpaceX or Tesla. He is good at generating hype and raking in money, but his actual ideas show that he has no technical understanding whatsoever.
Would you believe me if I said yes? ;)
If you go through my history you will see that I tend to have some strong opinions but acknowledge when I was misinformed (at least IMO, feel free to judge for yourself).
In addition to your evidence, I would like an explanation why anyone who understands anything of engineering or production would tweet "all cybertruck parts need to be cut to a 10micron accuracy", though...
Here are a few things that suggest musk is involved in the engineering.
First, here's some patents musk himself worked on.
https://patents.justia.com/inventor/elon-musk
Musk then solved an an engineering problem in his 2013 white paper on the hyperloop system.
https://medium.com/@vishresh_2647/redefining-hyperloop-speed-barriers-overcoming-the-kantrowitz-limit-9b6507b1a5af
"Musks’ solution utilizes an air compressor mounted onboard the capsule that would change the path of air. This solution to the Kantrowitz limit paves the way for the Hyperloop to become a reality and eliminates major obstacles."
Here's an interview explaining his role in his companies.
https://www.ycombinator.com/library/6W-elon-musk-on-how-to-build-the-future
"I think a lot of people think I must spend a lot of time with media or on business things but actually almost all my time, 80% of it is spent on engineering and design."
Gwynne Shotwell is Chief Operating Officer. She kind of manages legal finance sales and kind of general business activity and then my time is almost entirely with the engineering team working on improving the Falcon 9 and the Dragon spacecraft and developing the Mars colonial architecture. And then at Tesla, it's working on the Model 3 and some in the design studio typically half a day a week dealing with aesthetics and look and feel things."
This person collected the sources of various spacex staff statements.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/s/9o66sA8PxZ
And if you have time, there are a lot of videos like this and imo they offer the most conclusive evidence that musk is actually involved in the technical side of things. This is musk explaining in detail, how the raptor engines work.
https://youtu.be/E7MQb9Y4FAE?si=MyIaM2hxBT98ghAA
Regarding the cybertruck, it was actually a company email.
"All parts for this vehicle, whether internal or from suppliers, need to be designed and built to sub 10 micron accuracy.
That means all part dimensions need to be to the third decimal place in millimeters and tolerances need be specified in single digit microns.
If LEGO and soda cans, which are very low cost, can do this, so can we."
I don't know anything about mass manufacturing but I worked in an aerospace lab when I was in university and that kind of precision isn't unrealistic when it comes to high end manufacturing. Considering musks companies tend to invent the machinery that is capable of crazy expectations, such as the gigapress, I would guess that he wanted the employees to try and figure out a way to come up with that kind of precision. Beyond that, I can't say.
Thanks for providing sources, I will give my 2 cents to some of them but I do not have time right now to go into them in detail -- I promise that I will do that later!
I have to note that the richest man in the world, who wants to present himself as a genius, definitely has a well-funded PR department, so I hope you will understand that I remain on the skeptical side on anything that I can not independently verify.
> First, here's some patents musk himself worked on. [https://patents.justia.com/inventor/elon-musk](https://patents.justia.com/inventor/elon-musk)
Patents are a funny thing. You don't have to prove that something works to patent it. There are patents for a body-finding dowsing rod and a warp drive. I don't understand enough about this to judge them on its merit but my questions would be to what degree he was involved in those patents, and if they are actually commercially used.
> Musk then solved an an engineering problem in his 2013 white paper on the hyperloop system.
Granted, that is more than I expected of him. But again, the question remains: is this actually viable? Was this implemented and tested? A whitepaper is a small step above brainstorming in the scientific community. (Also, compared to the guy who invented CNNs and has 80 papers in the last 5 years, this is a bit of a funny flex, but since Elon is not in academia that is very understandable.)
> Here's an interview explaining his role in his companies
I will not take the word of someone who wants to be seen as a genius engineer on how much engineering he does in his companies.
> This person collected the sources of various spacex staff statements.
Again, I take public statements from staff about the CEO of their own company with a grain of salt. I do acknowledge that it is a lot of seemingly independent statements. It seems to be very consistent that he WANTS to be involved in engineering discussions (which is something that I was previously not aware of). But I also can see that a multibillionare can arrange for his high-profile employees to give some cushy statements about him. In contrast, I to trust people who speak out against their employers much more, because they are actively risking something. Many SpaceX employees want him gone (https://www.reuters.com/technology/spacex-employees-denounce-ceo-musk-distraction-letter-2022-06-16/) and the company is doing just fine with him not playing such an active role (https://nypost.com/2023/01/18/spacex-employees-enjoy-calm-as-elon-musk-distracted-by-twitter/).
Regarding the 10 micron thing: I can see this level of precision being necessary (and possible) for aerospace components. Same with a car's engine or transmission system. "All parts" is just BS, though. Stainless steel has a thermal expansion coefficient of \~10\^-5 per degree, meaning that if you change your temperature by 5-10 degrees, you change the length of your bigger parts (doors, chassis, ...) by 10 micron or more already. I'm also pretty sure that in your aerospace lab the required manufacturing precision depended on which part you were constructing -- pretty sure fairing panels have a higher tolerance than internal workings of a probe. A flat-out precision for all parts of a complex manufacturing process is plain stupid.
There is only so much a pr department can do. Each of these examples on their own wouldn't say much, but together they definitely paint a picture. When literally every arrow is pointing in a direction, you have to start thinking that it's for a reason.
The two articles you posted of musk being a distraction are about his politics. Obviously when you employ as many people as musk there will be some that disagree with his beleifs. So it's not suprising people would speak against that.
While there seems to be hundreds of examples of people saying musk is a brilliant engineer, I have yet to see any ex employees come forward saying he is not. Considering how controversial he is, and that there are obviously employees that disagree with his politics, that alone speaks pretty loudly.
But if you need to see it for yourself. Watch some of the videos of musk taking people on tours and explaining the tech. He is able to answer even the most base level questions about things. Nobody who wasn't involved in the design would be able to answer off the cuff like that.
I will watch the videos for sure! And granted, it is a lot of arrows pointing in the direction that he is a capable (I would not say brilliant) engineer.
The articles I linked also state that the companies work very well without his input (according to the NY post article he has not been to spaceX headquarters since october last year). From the quotes you linked I read that he does participate in lots of engineering discussions and has a lot of ideas, most of them bad, some of them really good. This micromanaging style has been described as counterproductive by ex-employees (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEikQP8-es0).
And a reason for not many people speaking out against Elon is that they like their jobs. He has fired the people that criticized him: [https://www.engadget.com/space-x-reportedly-fired-employees-that-wrote-letter-criticizing-elon-musk-075046446.html](https://www.engadget.com/space-x-reportedly-fired-employees-that-wrote-letter-criticizing-elon-musk-075046446.html), [https://www.theregister.com/2024/01/04/spacex\_nlrb\_complaint/](https://www.theregister.com/2024/01/04/spacex_nlrb_complaint/) .
With such a message I can understand why people prefer to stay quiet about their dissatisfaction. Also, someone who is actually convinced that they are a capable engineer and manager would not be so thin-skinned and fire everyone who criticizes them. A good engineer knows that they can't be right all the time and welcomes criticism.
You have definitely convinced me that Musk takes a more hands-on approach with his companies than I thought. I am definitely not convinced that he is the genius he portrays to be, or that his technical expertise has been a net-positive for his companies.
My picture is the following: I believe he is a manager capable of getting great results out of people (through very, very questionable management decisions). He wants to be seen as an engineering genius and a savior of humanity and does everything in his power to portray that image. He rewards loyal people and punishes criticism. He can think outside of the box and inspire people to follow his visions. But in the end he is a scummy businessman like all the others.
Nobody said it's being worked on. Musk has mentioned in an interview that he doesn't have time for it. I just used that example where he was literally solving engineering problems.
Because it's a completely infeasible idea. Why build a hyperloop when you can build a much cheaper bullet train on the ground? You're spending way more on pylons for the elevated tube, you're carrying less passengers, you're much more sensitive to minor changes in the terrain (eg, seismic activity in a place like California), etc. What happens if you lose power while miles away from a city, and you're stuck in a sealed, airtight, windowless tube?
Musk's biographer stated that Musk's real goal in "proposing" the hyperloop was to kill California's public high speed rail plans. Working out airflow problems in a hyperloop is about like calculating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, as far as practical use is concerned.
Everyone told him building a private space company wasn't feasible either.
In the world of credibility, some random redditors opinion on innovative technology is like asking a blind person what they think of impressionist paintings.
Not really. Just because you don't write the paper doesn't mean you didn't make any intellectual contributions. My PI didn't write my papers, but they contributed to planning/development, advising, stats, troubleshooting, funds, equipment, etc. That usually constitutes senior author. ML is not my field, but the publications should list the contributions for each author.
Then you must have had a good pi. I worked in a large lab for a bit and I had next to no input. I don't imagine a lab pumping out papers like that would be able to give that much attention. Especially considering Yanns involvement in other things. But yes, I know that saying he contributed nothing was an exaggeration.
My wife’s name is on like 10 papers. She only did 2 of them. She just worked in the same lab for the other 8. If you aren’t first or second author, you probably didn’t do much.
I mean... Sorry but that guy's contribution to science also ends with signing papers... He's just flexing he works in the academia. My Masters professor also has his name on my paper despite only doing administrative work like sending it for approval to the board. After my work passed the board approval and I got my degree it was him pushing it for publication cuz he cares about it, I just wanted my degree man... idc if this gets published in a journal nobody will look at. If I stayed in academia I'd also rack up papers from students under my belt... Not like you are going to rack up money (teachers in most places in the world have an ungrateful pay system). Yes, he has a successful career as a professor, but with so much students under him he doesn't do much science himself... and let's not get into argument of how much those papers are contributing to science knowledge, undergrad papers reinvent the wheel, masters reinvent the wheel but give a new spin on it, while PhD in theory have to be a new discovery, some PhD papers are glorified masters level papers just to have that student get PhD. As a person who has masters level education and worked in academia (research assistant and lecturer) I can tell you... Most of the time it is a scam. Your certificate of passing the studies is just an info for employers that given the timeframe you are able to produce results and focus on a task. So it gives them info about your work ethics and not your skill... Skills can often easily be obtained outside academia if not free then at a fraction of the cost. It also might tell them that you are bad with your money but that's another thing...
I agree. To me flexing that he has 80 technical papers since 2022 just proves he’s not actually doing any of the ‘science’ in those papers. If he had been more specific such as “overseen x amount of grad students while personally collaborating on 4-5 technical papers about y which found z” then I’d be like okay this dude is legit. Maybe he is doing that I have no idea but his response alone doesn’t prove anything.
You know damn well Elon and his idiots didn’t understand that response enough to see it as a shutdown. Willing to bet the comments on that are full of “my opinion trumps your facts”
Eh as someone whose familiar with how academia works it’s really not a shutdown. To publish papers at that high of a volume he’s likely not really ‘working on the science’ but rather serving a more administrative role over a large group of grad students. He still gets to put his name on their work even if he didn’t do much. It’s not a shutdown, nor is it a weak response per say. It just doesn’t address whether or not he’s actually doing his own research. Tossing around big publishing numbers doesn’t really mean much in this context.
If you wanna fight over my qualifications in qualified enough to show you a mirror you are the one bringing numbers ig 800 is a integer for for you smarty pants not a number second I'm sure you don't the contribution of this person 'yann lecun' and I consider someone who assumes other's intellect based on his country.
I mean he's one of the top AI scientists in the world and has been hugely influential in the field. And obviously he didn't personally write each paper himself - none of us do because we work in teams.
You know you can inform yourself on things before commenting, right?
Well lucky us that his publications are public, as the name suggests. You can go ahead and read some of his work to see if it is actually what you are claiming.
An average is meaningless without a distribution though. If he allocated most of his time to a handful of those papers it's a vastly different story than if he spread it equally.
If you're one of the leaders in the field, you probably have several students and many collaborators. In that context 80 is still a lot but it doesn't mean it's bad science.
Just briefly looking at his Google scholar, at least half of his publications are first or senior author, which is definitely not negligible contribution.
Elon deserves some hate. I'll give you guys that. But in the grand scheme of things, Elon has contributed more to science than any of these Twitter scientists he's been rimming for no reason.
Sure, he's not directly involved with the scientific decision-making, but if it wasn't for his smart business and financial success in his past, then the funding for Space X would have never happened.
He's brought a newfound appreciation and passion for space travel that the world hasn't seen in decades.
Someone just needs to take this boomers X account away and tell him to stick to science.
All of elons wives left him
So? He still doesn't seem to have a problem with women wanting to have kids with him. It's not the own you think it is.
Jesus christ musk fanboys actually exist? I thought it was a joke
They exist and it’s pathetic
Not everyone has an irrational aversion to him, doesn't make them fanboys...
Aversion is the most rational response that a person could have to Elon Musk
How is it fanboying to call out a stupid insult?
Honestly, I'm with you here. I hate Elon as much as the next guy but "Haha, he doesn't have a wife" is not helping. Make fun of his tendency to take credit for others work or willingness to accept extremism while calling it "Free Speech".
The point of the joke highlights the fact women get tired of him and leave. How crappy do you have to be for the people with the most to gain to leave you every relationship. It speaks to Elon not being as dope behind closed doors as Elon fanboys like to think. Building and maintaining a family is way more impressive than being a rich male whore for 7's and below if were being honest. Elon is the king lame for other lames who need money/power in order to have casual sex.
This. The people who know him best, leave him.
The richest guy in the world can't pay people enough to tolerate him.
😂 sheesh
I can understand that. That makes a bit more sense. It just seemed like people were saying he's bad because he can't get a girl rather than he's bad because he promotes bigotry and is a narcissist.
That's true too tho. Have you seen Twitter lately? 🤣
I have, hence my reference of him promoting bigotry.
I read an article once written by one of his exes and it sounds like he's very domineering in his relationships
Those tendencies aren’t consequences though. We are laughing at him because his shittery has actually had repercussions on his personal life, as being a shitter should.
Bro, your wife is supposed to be the LAST person on earth to leave you because of how close and loved the pair are to each other. When that role in your life is a revolving door from which everyone leaving has nothing nice to say about you, and what they say matches up with everything you're doing in public, well............ Let's just say it's pretty easy to draw conclusions.
I mean, when you are aligning with "the party of family values" and your dad hates you and your kids hate you and your one of the most divorced dads in history........you've kind of failed.
You realize that you're saying Musk only gets paid because of gold diggers right? Like you're saying that women don't want to be married to him but want to have his kids, why do you think that is?
The ex's are milking his money in alimony and support payments. Musk is a moron and doesn't see that these people are using him for the bankroll from day 1. And you yourself are also an idiot.
Tell us more about how angry you feel
Pretty indifferent at the moment, but thank you for making your projected emotions obvious.
I know you thought this was an own but you literally just made a neutral imperative statement
Nice downvotes
This comment is not the own you think it is.
Actually seems to have an extreme problem with that given the massive sexual harassment lawsuit is currently facing
Isn't it a gender discrimination lawsuit or something?
No it's him making repeated sexual advances on employees and inappropriately asking them to Father his children, as well as using his position to pressure them into sexual relationships and exposing himself to them without their consent
What a fucking cuck lmao
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I hate Elon Musk so much.
No idea how people fell for that egomaniac. His takes were moronic from the start. From his Solar City scams, to all his loop projects (hyperloop, dugout loop, etc), to naming himself founder of Tesla or his whole fucking mars colonization.
Well, SPX is literally the most successful aerospace company.... ever... and it's not even close. Also he didn't "name himself" a founder of Tesla. Pre-Musk Tesla has a history of about 6 months total where approximately nothing substantial was done besides raising money and doing the most basic (non-specific to Tesla or proprietary) research to scout for basics like component vendors, etc. Plus a lot of that money they raised was his. **If Musk isn't a founder of Tesla, then no one can be a founder of any company unless they were literally physically present when the idea to create a company was made.** Not "the idea of the company/the idea for the product", just "the idea TO for a company", because there were NO like, specific engineering ideas involved at the pre-Musk stage of Tesla. That part ramped up after the money was raised which is to say after Musk was brought on. d Musk came up with the entire "grand plan"/"road map to success" for Tesla from the beginning and was just flat out in charge and in the thick of everything at Tesla up all through the most crazy and hyper risky milestones up through Model Y deliveries starting at least before he started losing focus and going down what was then the alt-right rabbit hole. He bet **everything** he had left on SPX and Tesla in the middle of the 08 financial crisis when he was 95% both companies would fail and he would lose ALL of it just because he couldn't stomach giving up on either of them and had to at least try. Just because he turned drastically for the worse doesn't mean he was a *fraud* the whole time. Do you ALSO believe his dad was a billionaire diamond/emerald mine baron who left his wealth to Elon? Did you also believe that lie? Then you're probably the type of person who can't just admit that life is complex and a person you think is evil, who probably is, is therefore entirely devoid of any merit whatsoever and was a fraud the whole time who fools EVERYONE, not just you. *No Musk's father wasn't a diamond or emerald baron. His parents were like high upper middle class, but in a poor country. They were upper professional class, like engineer and I think his mom was a doctor or medical something... or writer? Idk and idc but they were normal albeit successful and well educated and in SA. The diamond mine/emerald mine thing came from this one time his father, a terrible person and liar, but this has been investigated and fact checked, had a client who was unable to pay him in liquid cash for some reason, it's like 70s-80s Africa after all, unstable banking and financial services... so the client pays Musk's father with a quantity of shares/equity in an emerald mine in different country, I think Zimbabwe, **of an equivalent value to what he owed him**. Do you people understand? An amount of stock/equity in a mine worth whatever unremarkable sum this person was paying Musk's father for some amount of professional work, so knowing roughly their family wealth (millions, but not many millions), it almost certainly wasn't worth more than 5 figures tops. Now would you really.... *really* say it is truthful to now call Elon Musk "heir to an emerald mine" or "from a family of white emerald mine owners in Africa"?? Or is that so removed from the truth that it's the same thing as a lie? In your heart of hearts? Yeah it's not a thing, the emerald mine. He father once lied and claimed he owned an emerald mine and that's probably was started this, but it was a lie... and it's been well documented as much since WELL before the current PR campaign to paint Musk as a worthless fraud who couldn't pass college calculus and a fucking white African emerald mine heir at that. But it just sounds sooooo good if you want to discredit him. In reality his father got like, a tour at some point, of the mine, and like a big emerald as a keepsake and that's about it. Because his father was gifted some stock by a client who couldn't pay his fee. This also kind of destroys the "Musk inherited billions" idea. Also literally just a lie since the emerald thing isn't true and his family had no billions to give him. This inheritance never existed. And both his parents are still alive any way. If you believe the emerald thing or that Musk is just a total fraud, then you're so removed from reality that you don't really get to have a say anyone takes seriously in the actual complex topic of what exactly Musk has achieved at SPX or Tesla. Like, you're just not in the game. And if your knowledge of this man is essentially nothing at all, I can assume that's your knowledge roughly of SPX and Tesla too. Like, their operations and history and what not and what they are worth and have accomplished.
Better loose that unhealthy obsession, dude
Smoke some weed and watch cartoons to de-stress
Trust me we know. Half of Reddit hates him. Everyone used to love him until he started talking about politics
Elon: Helped create the online payment system Established the electric car industry Reignited the space industry Brought internet to all corners of the world Is paving the way for paralyzed people to walk again and possibly cure most mental illnesses Has a shitty personality Random redditors: Hate musk so much it's become a literal obsession.
He did help to establish PayPal which is great, and he has drawn public attention back to spaceflight while getting his scientists to advance the field, but the 3 other statements are misleading. - He didn't establish the electric car industry. He was not the first person making them, nor is he making the highest quality EVs. Electric vehicles would be here with or without him, it's just that Elon Musk is famous so people often think Tesla when they think of electric vehicles. It doesn't mean he established the industry. - He's gotten more coverage than other satellite internet providers, but that's really it. Starlink coverage isn't global, it's just another satellite internet provider but with a ton of money pumped into it. Props to him for using his money to overcome competitors, but Starlink isn't special. - Paving the way for paralysed people to walk? Cure mental illnesses? This one is just insane. Neuralink is based off technology that others have developed and that others are currently testing in the same capacity as Elon is. Neuralink isn't special nor is it particularly advanced, Elon isn't the one doing the heavy lifting in the field. Don't misattribute the work of countless researchers to one CEO, and don't overestimate the technology he's using.
I forgot to mention the fact that he's literally spreading conspiracy theories and loosening rules on hate speech (while clamping down on speech he doesn't like) on the social media platform he bought. Do you have any clue how harmful it is to have an unhinged person controlling SOCIAL MEDIA, THE PLACE WHERE PEOPLE INTERACT AND GET INFORMATION FROM? He's doing harm to countless people by spreading dangerous ideologies and villainizing minorities, among many others.
If you get your information from social media, you're hopeless.
In this digital age, honestly yeah, but that doesn't really stop the fact that the alternative (fact checking literally everything people tell you and reading at least 3 different news articles on the same event to get an unbiased view) is too cumbersome to work for everyone. People like things being easy, so they often hear about something on social media and then don't go through the effort of fact-checking it. Things get bad when someone with wacky ideas controls the means by which people communicate and share ideas/information.
It's amazing how people say he's just a figurehead at his companies, then in the same breath say things like he's the one that's controlling the means by which people communicate. I don't see don't see dozens of hate subs about Rupert Murdock. Seems like most redditors don't actually care about those who control the narrative.
Everyone hates Rupert Murdoch, but no one says anything about him because he rarely gets headlines. Elon Musk is super famous and an asshole, so naturally there'll be more headlines for people to whine over.
And do you believe that's rational behavior?
Rupert Murdoch should be getting more hate if you only consider it logically, but that's not really how people work. They see something, they react to something. Elon Musk is constantly in sight, so people constantly react to him. Rupert Murdoch stays in the shadows, so people don't talk about him. That's just how it is.
It seems pretty obvious to me that he bought Twitter out of personal desire, not purely as a business venture, no? He definitely doesn't seem to be personally involved in production processes at his other companies besides telling them "HIGH QUALITY" if the Cybertruck micron fiasco is anything to go by, but at Twitter he's very obviously been personally making major reforms. He's not a scientist or an engineer, he's a CEO who did some programming back in the day. He's fundamentally incapable of being deeply involved with his important companies (not X) if he doesn't want to overreach, which I'll admit he still does.
Who knows the real reasons why he bought Twitter. There's evidence that he has always wanted to create an everything app so it could just as well be for that. He's literally chief engineer at spacex. Stop getting your information from social media. Especially reddit.
Google is telling me he's got a BA in physics and a BA in marketing. Does it really make one an engineer if you give yourself the title of engineer in your company?
Americans mimic the rich. He made an EV that rich people would buy, establishing the industry in America.
Not even the major car manufacturers could get any traction on electric vehicles until musk. So no, not misleading. Lots of rural areas never had access to internet, now they do. Something existing providers can't do. Neuralink is literally paving the way for companies like the one I work at to exist. Getting brand new intracranial technology through regulations would sink almost all medical start ups. But musks resources make it possible. I mean I get how you would have all these opinions if you only get your news from redditors but if you talk to people in these industries, they paint a very different story.
Go to a village. Ask the people if they use starlink. Look for people with an EV. Ask them if they are Teslas.
Not sure if I see your point... Both of those would result in yes more than no.
What are you on about? It's really easy to look up EV market share and tesla is roughly the 20% in recent years, and that's not counting hybrids. Given that market is about the same size from some cursory research and tesla has no hybrids their share would half. So nine times out of ten someone with an ev/hybrid wouldn't have a tesla?
You're right, I was looking at us market stats without realizing. In regard to hybrids, that's not exactly what's being discussed here.
My friend that lives in rural Virginia uses starlink because nothing else exists that is decent. Most people around where I live that have EVs use teslas.
1. How do you mean traction? Public interest? If you're specifically saying that Elon 'established' the EV industry by being famous, then sure I guess? 2. 1st result https://www.satelliteinternet.com/resources/high-speed-internet-for-rural-areas/ It's great that he's set up his own satellite internet company to give options to more people, but Starlink is one of many. 3. I dunno, I'm not in the industry but I've been seeing Neuralink type projects do cool stuff all the time. Whether it's in helping paralysed people interact with the world or improving prosthetic limbs, I've been seeing people do it before Musk. It's cool if he's pumping money into the industry now, but that doesn't really make him more than an investor.
1. If all it takes is being famous, why didn't any of the other manufacturers just hire a celebrity to endorse them? 2. https://www.pcmag.com/news/starlink-vs-hughesnet-vs-viasat-which-satellite-internet-provider-is-best It's like saying a walkie talkie is a competitor to the iPhone. 3. Doing something in the lab, and making something commercially available are two vastly different things. Like astronomically vast.
Marketing is a fickle thing. I don't believe Elon Musk should be glorified on the basis of his fame rubbing off on his products. Keep watch of your backpedaling on the second point, Starlink is big but it's still just a satellite internet company. Is Neuralink also not currently in the lab? He's got no products with Neuralink as of current, as far as I've seen only a test run that's now lost its effectiveness. Great if he does something in the future with it, but not much there yet.
It's not backpeddeling. Look at the coverage area between those satalite providers. Yes neuralink doesn't have products yet, but as I said, going from lab to product is an astronomical distance. Before musk, nobody was even close to closing that gap.
Come on, "Rural areas never had access to internet"? This is the forsaken land of internet arguments where any minor mistake gets you torn apart! What you're saying now with Starlink is reasonable, props to him for using his resources to give more people internet, but many rural communities had satellite internet before Starlink. Starlink is better, but there were options before it. I think it isn't good to glorify people based on what their work _may_ lead to. The way I see it outside the industry is that he's done a trial run that lots of people have seen because of his fame, and not much else. It's not something to build an argument on.
I grew up in a rural area that had no high speed internet access options. Now, starlink is the only option for my parents. Many places are in the same boat.
People think Tesla because it was, and continues, to be on the leading edge. The rest are shitboxes with little to nothing to show for the level of price they come with. Most of stuff other than tesla has actual range of 100-150km (not the "tested" range in perfect track and weather conditions, LOL, fuck right off with that BS - show me the range with AC on full blow in worst weather and driving conditions, then we can talk...)
Many other cars meet or exceed the range available in Tesla's models, according to [this random site](https://www.cars.com/articles/electric-vehicles-with-the-longest-range-422227/). Even if these are all in test conditions, one would expect the real-world ranges of all the cars to scale similarly. Even if we assume you're right, 100-150 miles is probably enough for the vast majority of trips most people will make. Sure, if you're going for a long drive, it might become annoying, but if you're going to work or something and 100-150 miles isn't enough to go both ways, you may be able to charge at your destination (and if your commute is longer than 2 hours.... I feel sorry for you). Even then, electric cars will hardly save the planet. Cars are pretty inefficient, and even without the gas engine they still pollute plenty. Walking, cycling, and electric trains (none of which need batteries, by the way) are all better ways to get around than electric cars. Unfortunately, most US cities are really only designed for cars, so making them not suck to get around outside of a car is probably the more important thing to focus on. Don't get me wrong, electric cars are a step in the right direction, but they aren't going to solve our transportation problems.
The cybertruck might be the biggest POS to roll off an assembly line ever. Parts are falling off, accelator pedal getting stuck to the floor, doesn't like the car wash, tries to chop off fingers, cuts people open, rusting within days of purchase and too many other problems to list. There are far better EVs available than a fucking over priced Tesla.
Gotta learn to separate the man from the music
Why does it matter? There are millions of people who are WAY shittier, yet nobody cares about them. Most people have never heard of Richard Sackler, yet he's arguably killed millions of people. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Sackler Just seems weird that people are literally obsessed over hating someone who's actually done some good things but just has a shit personality.
Because the millions of people who are way shittier aren’t famous, rich, or influential *Usually* Also he didn’t establish the electric car industry. He just popularised it by making electric cars that actually aren’t very good Also, because other people who are awful exist, does not make Elon Musk any better
It's even more impressive that musk popularized electric vehicles with a bad product, when established car manufacturers couldn't. I prefer to hate people based on how much they deserve it, not by how famous they are. But that's just me.
I prefer to hate on people for who they choose to be. I also prefer to separate people from what they create. Hitler’s artwork is quite good (by my standards at least) but that doesn’t make Hitler a good person. SpaceX and Starlink has done a lot, but it primarily serves Elon Musk’s financial interest, same with Tesla. And it’s clear that he only really cares about money, considering hyperloop, something he admitted to be a scam to try and cancel California HSR so that more people would be dependent on a product he sells
You are seriously comparing someone who brutally murdered millions of people to someone who says controversial things online? You are clearly getting your talking points from those toxic hate factory subreddits so I don't see the point in continuing this thread.
I mean if you love the bigot billionaire who tried to cancel actual sustainable transport in favour of his own product, and who continues to fund slave camps in Africa mining cobalt to fuel his personal wealth, go ahead
Again, reddit toxic factory talking points.
"SpaceX and Starlink has done a lot, but it primarily serves Elon Musk’s financial interest, same with Tesla." yes, this is what all companies are there for, surprised? To serve the financial benefits to their owners. Want a piece of the cake? Achieve same as he did. He isnt there to cater to you, or to be fair to you. He's there to make money for himself, and his kids - and only that.
>Why does it matter? There are millions of people who are WAY shittier, yet nobody cares about them. I’m not going to engage with you other than to point out this is one of the *worst* arguments you could have made. Who cares if other people suck? We’re not talking about other people. “Who cares about this murderer when there are serial killers out there”
Fair point. Still, the level of hate he receives seems irrational.
Is it really surprising that the more well known shitty person gets more hate?
So.mich Elon sucking that it's turning gay.
Very mature of you.
Very perceptive of you to notice. Thank you
Elon was definitely not the first to establish the electric car industry
How many electric cars were sold before tesla?
The Nissan leaf existed. Chevy spark existed. Ev Priuses existed. Smart cars existed for years. I mean people have had smart cars for such a long time. Also, Elon didn't even start Tesla. He just jumped in and took over ownership of it
there isn't much data about it since the EV market was really low and was high for petrol vehicles, tesla did help in increasing the interest in EVs and other companies began to produce their own EVs and even hybrid cars but saying that tesla established EVs is overexaggeration as there are a few EVs that existed way back since cars was invented Plus, if you get out of the American bubble, you're living in you would realize that petrol vehicles are still huge compared everywhere around the worlds as there are lots of different countries that don't have EVs or even Electric charging stations and by the looks of it would take decades for it to start actually spreading around the world and replacing Petrol vehicles
Establishing an industry does not mean he invented evs. You just admitted the industry didn't really exist before. It does now. https://www.npr.org/2023/03/30/1166921698/eu-zero-emission-cars Sorry what were you saying about American bubble? I'm not even American btw.
Citations needed 😉
Www.google.com
Google just told me you're 100% wrong. Thnx. Way easier to debunk your 🐴💩 that way instead of reading sources 😉👍
He did not hate Musk for any of the reasons you mentioned above. As the same for any and all influential men, there are plenty of reasons for one to be hated or loved.
Bro you can literally type Elon musk in YT and see that he’s just a shity dude with money. You can also fact check in google and see everything you said is a fallacy
Let me guess, you participate in those toxic elon hate factory subreddits?
He didn't help create the online payment system. The electric car industry is a Band-Aid over what we actually made which is reworking our public transportation infrastructure The space industry never went away all he did was privatize it and make the government have to pay private companies to do what they used to do themselves Between stopping California's high speed rail project and pushing for more privatization he's done incalculable damage
Those are all toxic reddit talking points that can be easily proven wrong if you spend 5 minutes on Google.
5 minutes of googling? I'm literally an economist who worked on economic impact reports unsustainability studies. It's my job to do economic research on Environmental policy. I can tell you that the electric car industry is entirely a Band-Aid trying to reduce our carbon footprint without making widespread infrastructure and societal changes that would actually be required to live sustainably. But sure tell me how 5 minutes on Google would tell me more than my masters degree and my job
And I'm the king of Atlantis.
I can only takes 5 minutes can't you find me some evidence to support your theory? Because I could post plenty of evidence showing that electric cars aren't actually a solution to climate change and sustainability
Nobody is arguing electric cars are the solution to climate change. But they are better than the alternative. https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths
Elon Musk is arguing that. In fact the entire electric car Industries built on that presumption. It's why he had to specifically kill the High-Speed Rail Project
Okay Mr smart guy, please show me where musk said electric cars solve climate change. Also, are you talking about this high speed rail that is still planning to go ahead? https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-03-21/high-speed-rail The one that musk supposedly killed when he released a white paper on the feasibility of a hyperloop back in 2013 but didn't pursue because he said he didn't have time?
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep09213 https://earthjustice.org/article/electric-vehicles-are-better-for-the-environment https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2022/11/dont-get-fooled-electric-vehicles-really-are-better-for-the-climate/ https://climate.ec.europa.eu/news-your-voice/news/5-things-you-should-know-about-electric-cars-2024-05-14_en https://climate.mit.edu/explainers/electric-vehicles https://civmin.utoronto.ca/can-electric-vehicles-save-the-planet/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/electric-vehicles-beat-gas-cars-on-climate-emissions-over-time/ https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change/ Are you seriously trying to say you know better than these people/organizations?
Bro literally none of these articles disagree with me. The studies they point up support my hypothesis that it's not an effective or efficient way to reach net zero emissions. Your scientific America article proves my point better than all of them. Having an electric car is better than having a gas car. But you know it's better than both of them? Not having a car at all
... Yup, this is the kind of critical thinking I expect from the antimusk fanatics.
Yeah notice how he isn't doing any of the actual fucking science. He's just the guy with the money, yes it takes some brain to think it's a good idea to fund these. However, he isn't the engineers designing and building those rockets. He isn't the engineers designing and building those cars. He isn't the engineer who made any of his ideas possible. It doesn't take a genius to sit and think to themselves "what if money but in phone no need to carry money all the time just carry phone", it's takes actually talented and intelligent people to make it actually work.
Here are a few things that suggest musk is involved in the engineering. First, here's some patents musk himself worked on. https://patents.justia.com/inventor/elon-musk Musk then solved an an engineering problem in his 2013 white paper on the hyperloop system. https://medium.com/@vishresh_2647/redefining-hyperloop-speed-barriers-overcoming-the-kantrowitz-limit-9b6507b1a5af "Musks’ solution utilizes an air compressor mounted onboard the capsule that would change the path of air. This solution to the Kantrowitz limit paves the way for the Hyperloop to become a reality and eliminates major obstacles." Here's an interview explaining his role in his companies. https://www.ycombinator.com/library/6W-elon-musk-on-how-to-build-the-future "I think a lot of people think I must spend a lot of time with media or on business things but actually almost all my time, 80% of it is spent on engineering and design." Gwynne Shotwell is Chief Operating Officer. She kind of manages legal finance sales and kind of general business activity and then my time is almost entirely with the engineering team working on improving the Falcon 9 and the Dragon spacecraft and developing the Mars colonial architecture. And then at Tesla, it's working on the Model 3 and some in the design studio typically half a day a week dealing with aesthetics and look and feel things." This person collected the sources of various spacex staff statements. https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/s/9o66sA8PxZ And if you have time, there are a lot of videos like this and imo they offer the most conclusive evidence that musk is actually involved in the technical side of things. This is musk explaining in detail, how the raptor engines work. https://youtu.be/E7MQb9Y4FAE?si=MyIaM2hxBT98ghAA
I dont
80 papers since 2022 is almost a scientific paper a week, thats seems pretty unrealistic to me.
He's not a nobody in computer sciences, so his publication credentials are easily available, if you're actually interested.
It's not him writing them, it's the people in his lab. He just gets his name on them for doing none of the work. Academia in a nutshell.
Wait a sec... That seems an awful lot like what people accuse Elon of...
No, Yann is one of the fathers of machine learning so the research his lab is doing is the extension of a lifetime of his own work (very much not like Elon). He is absolutely not the majority contributor to most of those, but I’d wager he’s more involved than you think. I also work managing an R&D team (I’m not famous unfortunately) and even though I’m delegating work on many different activities I’m very involved with analyzing results, developing theories, evolving algorithms, and the design and execution of the experiments. I just spend more time reading and writing these days than coding, which is personally sad because I love to code.
Musks company does something successful - "it's not him it's his employees" Musks company does something dumb - "it's all Musks fault" Seems rational.
Yeah. I get that the dude is controversial but people seem to have an insane hate boner for him beyond all reason.
I keep bringing up his biography in comments because it's showcases when he's making dumb decisions and when he's not. It also shows that in the past the friction and resistance behind his ideas helped him filter and push on breakthroughs whereas these days he has no one to actually push back because he has a lot more yes men around him. That's dangerous because you end up thinking all your ideas are revolutionary when they're not. Recency bias is where the assumption is that he's making dumb decisions because on avg he is. You hear more or what he does and he makes dumber decisions. Where you heard little about him except his breakthroughs a decade ago.
There are many reasons to hate Musk. He scammed his way to the top from the get go. As a scientist myself I find it immensely saddening that so many people fell for his scams. From solar city to his loops to his mars colonization. Add on top of that his egomaniac personality like him insisting on calling himself the founder of tesla or if you want to venture into conspiracy theories his involvement in the regime change in Argentina for access to lithium.
Nothing screams redditor more than claiming to be a scientist, then spreading a conspiracy theory in the same comment.
That's why I gave plenty of other reasons too ;)
Nothing screams redditor like ignoring a whole comment to hyper focus on one half of a sentence.
To the top? You mean like the money top? Then no, he didn't "scam it" there. He got his money from running or participating in running of the successful public companies that made billions of dollars by selling goods people happily purchase. Did/does he also push stupid, controversial and even scam-like things? Yes, he does. You see, it's not the "people who fell for him" who have bias, it's the haters who do. I like what he did with Tesla, SpaceX and even Twitter, while seeing all his downsides and toxicity, while you only see the downsides and choose to pretend there were no achievements or pretend they don't matter or pretend his participation didn't matter.
No, I literally mean scamming and legally very gray stuff. Honestly, I do think people like Elon Musk are an immense danger for democracy as they are powerful enough to openly pressurize legislation in their favour (as e.g happened at covid lockdown in California). By the year 2015 his companies got roughly 5 billion dollars of government subsidies and that was years before his hype in the later years. And yeah, stuff like his mars colonization, solarcity and all of his loops were very obvious scams.
> stuff like his mars colonization, solarcity and all of his loops were very obvious scams. No, they were not, because scam assumes getting someone's money and giving nothing or subpar thing in return. None of this is applicable to the examples above. Moreover, none of the above was what got him to the top. I understand what you are trying to say – they were fads, delusions, maybe even diversions as in case of loops. But the way you try to frame them together is not correct. Moreover, the problem I have with you and people like you is not that you call out those things, for what it's worth do call out Elon Musks BS. But pretending like his input was not central to Tesla or SpaceX is as delusional as those ideas you call out.
SolarCity was a huge disaster that he got sued for, his loops blocked the expansion of environmentally friendly public transportation while having an absolutely subpar capacity, his whole Mars colonization got nowhere and only brought people into trivializing climate change and Tesla sells mediocre, overpriced cars. On top of the he got ridiculous amount of subsidies, heavily lobbied (e.g Tesla factory in California during covid lockdown) and continuously evades paying taxes. So no, I don´t really see the positives about him. Furthermore (especially as a scientist myself) I think the false security that people like him generate about our current technological abilities are very dangerous.
I think conspiracy theorists like yourself, are an even bigger danger to democracy and society in general.
Why do you think I´m a conspiracy theorist? I made several points besides the one about Argentina.
Who exactly has he scammed in these 3 examples of yours. Scamming 101 generally involves taking money from someone knowing that you aren't going to be delivering the agreed upon product. The mars colonization project is being paid completely out of his own pocket. His only contribution to "his loops" are writing a paper on it and releasing it to the public, then hosting some student competitions to bring attention to the idea. Again, no money claimed from anyone. Solar city wasn't even run by musk, they failed to make money and their assets where brought by tesla at the verge of bankruptcy. What's the problem there? Who exactly are the victims who he scammed?
Just read my other comments. I keep going in circles with the Musk cult here, so I´ll just leave it as is. So far, I was 100% right on my predictions with him and looking at the current trend, I doubt that that will change in the future.
Let's not pretend he didn't have a shitload of start up capital from daddy's emerald mines. It's not all that impressive to make it to the top when you have a safety net to keep trying if/when you fail.
Again. I am not pretending anything. He had a good load of start up capital. It does not change his central input in such a uniquie and important companies as Tesla and SpaceX. And yes, it is impressive. Pretending that it is not impressive is self-lies because you don't like other shitty stuff he did/does.
Nah, it's really not. Success when you can take 1000 shots at the target isn't really all that impressive to me. It's pretty easy to make something of yourself when there's no consequences for failing. I'd argue someone coming from poverty and ending up with 150k annual salary is more impressive to me. But then again, I don't dickride any billionaires because I'm pretty sure they're all sociopaths and at the absolute bare minimum fucking parasites on society.
Claiming that the person who has founded the lab, hires, educates, and supervises grad students and advises his researchers and gives them ideas does "none of the work" is a bit misleading. Yes, when I publish a paper then I did the lions share of the work. But the idea about the paper almost always came from a discussion with my supervisor. I can not believe that Musk had a similar level of input on the workings of SpaceX or Tesla. He is good at generating hype and raking in money, but his actual ideas show that he has no technical understanding whatsoever.
Would you actually listen if I provided evidence showing musk is actually very involved in the technical side of his companies?
Would you believe me if I said yes? ;) If you go through my history you will see that I tend to have some strong opinions but acknowledge when I was misinformed (at least IMO, feel free to judge for yourself). In addition to your evidence, I would like an explanation why anyone who understands anything of engineering or production would tweet "all cybertruck parts need to be cut to a 10micron accuracy", though...
Here are a few things that suggest musk is involved in the engineering. First, here's some patents musk himself worked on. https://patents.justia.com/inventor/elon-musk Musk then solved an an engineering problem in his 2013 white paper on the hyperloop system. https://medium.com/@vishresh_2647/redefining-hyperloop-speed-barriers-overcoming-the-kantrowitz-limit-9b6507b1a5af "Musks’ solution utilizes an air compressor mounted onboard the capsule that would change the path of air. This solution to the Kantrowitz limit paves the way for the Hyperloop to become a reality and eliminates major obstacles." Here's an interview explaining his role in his companies. https://www.ycombinator.com/library/6W-elon-musk-on-how-to-build-the-future "I think a lot of people think I must spend a lot of time with media or on business things but actually almost all my time, 80% of it is spent on engineering and design." Gwynne Shotwell is Chief Operating Officer. She kind of manages legal finance sales and kind of general business activity and then my time is almost entirely with the engineering team working on improving the Falcon 9 and the Dragon spacecraft and developing the Mars colonial architecture. And then at Tesla, it's working on the Model 3 and some in the design studio typically half a day a week dealing with aesthetics and look and feel things." This person collected the sources of various spacex staff statements. https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/s/9o66sA8PxZ And if you have time, there are a lot of videos like this and imo they offer the most conclusive evidence that musk is actually involved in the technical side of things. This is musk explaining in detail, how the raptor engines work. https://youtu.be/E7MQb9Y4FAE?si=MyIaM2hxBT98ghAA Regarding the cybertruck, it was actually a company email. "All parts for this vehicle, whether internal or from suppliers, need to be designed and built to sub 10 micron accuracy. That means all part dimensions need to be to the third decimal place in millimeters and tolerances need be specified in single digit microns. If LEGO and soda cans, which are very low cost, can do this, so can we." I don't know anything about mass manufacturing but I worked in an aerospace lab when I was in university and that kind of precision isn't unrealistic when it comes to high end manufacturing. Considering musks companies tend to invent the machinery that is capable of crazy expectations, such as the gigapress, I would guess that he wanted the employees to try and figure out a way to come up with that kind of precision. Beyond that, I can't say.
Thanks for providing sources, I will give my 2 cents to some of them but I do not have time right now to go into them in detail -- I promise that I will do that later! I have to note that the richest man in the world, who wants to present himself as a genius, definitely has a well-funded PR department, so I hope you will understand that I remain on the skeptical side on anything that I can not independently verify. > First, here's some patents musk himself worked on. [https://patents.justia.com/inventor/elon-musk](https://patents.justia.com/inventor/elon-musk) Patents are a funny thing. You don't have to prove that something works to patent it. There are patents for a body-finding dowsing rod and a warp drive. I don't understand enough about this to judge them on its merit but my questions would be to what degree he was involved in those patents, and if they are actually commercially used. > Musk then solved an an engineering problem in his 2013 white paper on the hyperloop system. Granted, that is more than I expected of him. But again, the question remains: is this actually viable? Was this implemented and tested? A whitepaper is a small step above brainstorming in the scientific community. (Also, compared to the guy who invented CNNs and has 80 papers in the last 5 years, this is a bit of a funny flex, but since Elon is not in academia that is very understandable.) > Here's an interview explaining his role in his companies I will not take the word of someone who wants to be seen as a genius engineer on how much engineering he does in his companies. > This person collected the sources of various spacex staff statements. Again, I take public statements from staff about the CEO of their own company with a grain of salt. I do acknowledge that it is a lot of seemingly independent statements. It seems to be very consistent that he WANTS to be involved in engineering discussions (which is something that I was previously not aware of). But I also can see that a multibillionare can arrange for his high-profile employees to give some cushy statements about him. In contrast, I to trust people who speak out against their employers much more, because they are actively risking something. Many SpaceX employees want him gone (https://www.reuters.com/technology/spacex-employees-denounce-ceo-musk-distraction-letter-2022-06-16/) and the company is doing just fine with him not playing such an active role (https://nypost.com/2023/01/18/spacex-employees-enjoy-calm-as-elon-musk-distracted-by-twitter/). Regarding the 10 micron thing: I can see this level of precision being necessary (and possible) for aerospace components. Same with a car's engine or transmission system. "All parts" is just BS, though. Stainless steel has a thermal expansion coefficient of \~10\^-5 per degree, meaning that if you change your temperature by 5-10 degrees, you change the length of your bigger parts (doors, chassis, ...) by 10 micron or more already. I'm also pretty sure that in your aerospace lab the required manufacturing precision depended on which part you were constructing -- pretty sure fairing panels have a higher tolerance than internal workings of a probe. A flat-out precision for all parts of a complex manufacturing process is plain stupid.
There is only so much a pr department can do. Each of these examples on their own wouldn't say much, but together they definitely paint a picture. When literally every arrow is pointing in a direction, you have to start thinking that it's for a reason. The two articles you posted of musk being a distraction are about his politics. Obviously when you employ as many people as musk there will be some that disagree with his beleifs. So it's not suprising people would speak against that. While there seems to be hundreds of examples of people saying musk is a brilliant engineer, I have yet to see any ex employees come forward saying he is not. Considering how controversial he is, and that there are obviously employees that disagree with his politics, that alone speaks pretty loudly. But if you need to see it for yourself. Watch some of the videos of musk taking people on tours and explaining the tech. He is able to answer even the most base level questions about things. Nobody who wasn't involved in the design would be able to answer off the cuff like that.
I will watch the videos for sure! And granted, it is a lot of arrows pointing in the direction that he is a capable (I would not say brilliant) engineer. The articles I linked also state that the companies work very well without his input (according to the NY post article he has not been to spaceX headquarters since october last year). From the quotes you linked I read that he does participate in lots of engineering discussions and has a lot of ideas, most of them bad, some of them really good. This micromanaging style has been described as counterproductive by ex-employees (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEikQP8-es0). And a reason for not many people speaking out against Elon is that they like their jobs. He has fired the people that criticized him: [https://www.engadget.com/space-x-reportedly-fired-employees-that-wrote-letter-criticizing-elon-musk-075046446.html](https://www.engadget.com/space-x-reportedly-fired-employees-that-wrote-letter-criticizing-elon-musk-075046446.html), [https://www.theregister.com/2024/01/04/spacex\_nlrb\_complaint/](https://www.theregister.com/2024/01/04/spacex_nlrb_complaint/) . With such a message I can understand why people prefer to stay quiet about their dissatisfaction. Also, someone who is actually convinced that they are a capable engineer and manager would not be so thin-skinned and fire everyone who criticizes them. A good engineer knows that they can't be right all the time and welcomes criticism. You have definitely convinced me that Musk takes a more hands-on approach with his companies than I thought. I am definitely not convinced that he is the genius he portrays to be, or that his technical expertise has been a net-positive for his companies. My picture is the following: I believe he is a manager capable of getting great results out of people (through very, very questionable management decisions). He wants to be seen as an engineering genius and a savior of humanity and does everything in his power to portray that image. He rewards loyal people and punishes criticism. He can think outside of the box and inspire people to follow his visions. But in the end he is a scummy businessman like all the others.
Wow, I can't wait to ride on a hyperloop. When will it be finished?
Nobody said it's being worked on. Musk has mentioned in an interview that he doesn't have time for it. I just used that example where he was literally solving engineering problems.
Because it's a completely infeasible idea. Why build a hyperloop when you can build a much cheaper bullet train on the ground? You're spending way more on pylons for the elevated tube, you're carrying less passengers, you're much more sensitive to minor changes in the terrain (eg, seismic activity in a place like California), etc. What happens if you lose power while miles away from a city, and you're stuck in a sealed, airtight, windowless tube? Musk's biographer stated that Musk's real goal in "proposing" the hyperloop was to kill California's public high speed rail plans. Working out airflow problems in a hyperloop is about like calculating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, as far as practical use is concerned.
Everyone told him building a private space company wasn't feasible either. In the world of credibility, some random redditors opinion on innovative technology is like asking a blind person what they think of impressionist paintings.
Not really. Just because you don't write the paper doesn't mean you didn't make any intellectual contributions. My PI didn't write my papers, but they contributed to planning/development, advising, stats, troubleshooting, funds, equipment, etc. That usually constitutes senior author. ML is not my field, but the publications should list the contributions for each author.
Then you must have had a good pi. I worked in a large lab for a bit and I had next to no input. I don't imagine a lab pumping out papers like that would be able to give that much attention. Especially considering Yanns involvement in other things. But yes, I know that saying he contributed nothing was an exaggeration.
My wife’s name is on like 10 papers. She only did 2 of them. She just worked in the same lab for the other 8. If you aren’t first or second author, you probably didn’t do much.
Well, he is to humble to say father of modern AI
The only successful business Elon has he bought
That is the nerdiest argument ever.
I mean... Sorry but that guy's contribution to science also ends with signing papers... He's just flexing he works in the academia. My Masters professor also has his name on my paper despite only doing administrative work like sending it for approval to the board. After my work passed the board approval and I got my degree it was him pushing it for publication cuz he cares about it, I just wanted my degree man... idc if this gets published in a journal nobody will look at. If I stayed in academia I'd also rack up papers from students under my belt... Not like you are going to rack up money (teachers in most places in the world have an ungrateful pay system). Yes, he has a successful career as a professor, but with so much students under him he doesn't do much science himself... and let's not get into argument of how much those papers are contributing to science knowledge, undergrad papers reinvent the wheel, masters reinvent the wheel but give a new spin on it, while PhD in theory have to be a new discovery, some PhD papers are glorified masters level papers just to have that student get PhD. As a person who has masters level education and worked in academia (research assistant and lecturer) I can tell you... Most of the time it is a scam. Your certificate of passing the studies is just an info for employers that given the timeframe you are able to produce results and focus on a task. So it gives them info about your work ethics and not your skill... Skills can often easily be obtained outside academia if not free then at a fraction of the cost. It also might tell them that you are bad with your money but that's another thing...
I agree. To me flexing that he has 80 technical papers since 2022 just proves he’s not actually doing any of the ‘science’ in those papers. If he had been more specific such as “overseen x amount of grad students while personally collaborating on 4-5 technical papers about y which found z” then I’d be like okay this dude is legit. Maybe he is doing that I have no idea but his response alone doesn’t prove anything.
He allowed a youtuber to recommend a fix for his little rocket
Echo chamber
Yeah. Those musk types live in an echo chamber.
Nazi like mentality
Elon is so entitled
You know damn well Elon and his idiots didn’t understand that response enough to see it as a shutdown. Willing to bet the comments on that are full of “my opinion trumps your facts”
Eh as someone whose familiar with how academia works it’s really not a shutdown. To publish papers at that high of a volume he’s likely not really ‘working on the science’ but rather serving a more administrative role over a large group of grad students. He still gets to put his name on their work even if he didn’t do much. It’s not a shutdown, nor is it a weak response per say. It just doesn’t address whether or not he’s actually doing his own research. Tossing around big publishing numbers doesn’t really mean much in this context.
Avi Loeb has more than 800 published articles. So yeah, that's not an argument.
That's like comparing apples to detergent
The number *by itself* doesn't prove anything. Did you even take logic in highschool.? Are you American?
Big words for a country of slavs that pretend to be italian.
We pretend to be french, don't be stupid. That's why we have philosophy and logic in high school.
Yeah buddy we have football and concussions (modern gladiatorial combat) so we win this one.
Yeah, but you hate yourself for loving it. So you lose.
No not really, it rocks.
Except when it plays the anthem and people want to stand.
Yeah it's called protesting. I think it's stupid but they have a right not to stand.
If you wanna fight over my qualifications in qualified enough to show you a mirror you are the one bringing numbers ig 800 is a integer for for you smarty pants not a number second I'm sure you don't the contribution of this person 'yann lecun' and I consider someone who assumes other's intellect based on his country.
I thought I was done seeing screenshots from this conversation
You’ve caused a thermonuclear civil war in the comment section, put on your gas mask and lead underwear before entering, folks 😭
he gonna cun in elon's face
Burnt 🔥 baby burnt hehe! Love this kind of roasting! Well deserved Mr MuskEEto
Since when is a twitter screenshot a meme?
He has, and more money than anyone else. Y'all can hate but he'll wipe his tears with $1000 dollar bills from laughing.
When did Elon say he was a scientist?
80 papers in 2 years lol. That must be some heavy serious ground-breaking science. Did he have Terrence Howard as an assistant?
I mean he's one of the top AI scientists in the world and has been hugely influential in the field. And obviously he didn't personally write each paper himself - none of us do because we work in teams. You know you can inform yourself on things before commenting, right?
Well lucky us that his publications are public, as the name suggests. You can go ahead and read some of his work to see if it is actually what you are claiming.
No need to. It's physically impossible to turn out a paper every 2-3 days worth anything. Unless his authorship contribution was like 1%.
An average is meaningless without a distribution though. If he allocated most of his time to a handful of those papers it's a vastly different story than if he spread it equally.
80 papers in 2 years equals a paper every 2-3 days?
Mafh
Assuming he doesn't work weekends and takes a few weeks of holiday every year.
If you're one of the leaders in the field, you probably have several students and many collaborators. In that context 80 is still a lot but it doesn't mean it's bad science.
I did say it's possible if his actual contribution was infinitesimal.
Just briefly looking at his Google scholar, at least half of his publications are first or senior author, which is definitely not negligible contribution.
So practically nothing. In both sides frankly.
Elon deserves some hate. I'll give you guys that. But in the grand scheme of things, Elon has contributed more to science than any of these Twitter scientists he's been rimming for no reason. Sure, he's not directly involved with the scientific decision-making, but if it wasn't for his smart business and financial success in his past, then the funding for Space X would have never happened. He's brought a newfound appreciation and passion for space travel that the world hasn't seen in decades. Someone just needs to take this boomers X account away and tell him to stick to science.