The first thing to do is to work on your confidence. Confidence is key when it comes to meeting new people, and it can be built up through self-improvement and practice. This can include things like working on your physical fitness, improving your fashion sense, and practicing good grooming habits.
Once you feel more confident, you can start practicing your social skills. This means putting yourself out there and talking to people. Start with small talk with strangers and work your way up to more meaningful conversations. There are also lots of resources online that can help you learn specific techniques for meeting and attracting women, such as pickup artists and dating coaches.
If you are a straight male and follow the tips above overtime you should be alright. And don’t use gynophobia as an excuse, the more you tell yourself that gynophobia is the issue the more you will believe it, just try to compliment yourself more often for me personally, complimenting myself raised my confidence through the roof. Which in fact lead to more success with women.
But isn’t complementing yourself kinda delusional? What better is it if you’re not making a conscious abundant efforts and actions towards it? Wouldn’t it be the same as lying to yourself?🧐🤔
Not necessarily, it all depends on what you decide to complement yourself on, for example if you’re fat and you try to convince yourself that you’re big boned even though you’re not, then yeah that’s just you being delusional, but if you decide to complement yourself for having a beautiful smile, then it’s not delusion, most people these days tend to only notice everything negative about themselves rather than noticing their positive features thus lowering their confidence. Ignoring unhealthy habbits or ignoring the fact that you as a person might be overweight or underweight is also unacceptable, those kind of things should be taken notice of and improved, not necessarily transforming yourself into an athlete (unless that’s what you desire). Kinda forgot what i was on about but keeping yourself fit is mandatory.
I still believe that we should only complement ourselves ONLY when we’re making enough efforts and hardwork towards it. ik that it’s some ‘autosuggestion’ “subconscious mind” thingy & it helps improve the self-esteem and all. There’s this notion in the psychology of trauma too, that “What you tell yourself about the event matter more than the actual event itself.” And yet, despite all of that it all seems like a delusional-fantasy to me, personally.
You know there are several medical conditions because of which people are obese right. Please do not mock obese people, I had an obese childhood and had to go through a lot of crap in those days. Well, it’s all in the past now. I’m in good shape now, but not in the best though.
However, yeah there are literally some medical conditions where people cannot lose weight no matter how much diet & exercise they do. Similarly, on the contrary, there are those genetically gifted people who get a 6-pack just by doing some slight mild workout.
Sure there are some cases, but most of the time people tend to use these rare cases as an excuse for themselves to be lazy, had a friend who was built like tyson fury, but still kept working out in order to be happier and stronger, so no shame in that.
Yes! I do.
Whenever I miss a deadline, or when I fail to reach a goal. I do it. ik I can be hard on myself but that’s how I grew up. There was a phase in my life when achievements meant a lot to me.
Honestly beating yourself up isnt the way to go.
Im on the selfimprovement journey myself and have learnt that while sometimes you may fuck up, bringing yourself down does more damage than the supposed motivation It should give. Learn to love yourself first, find your confidence, and then someone might love fall for you.
It may be cheesy but a comment I read in here a little ago seems to be fitting:
"If you try to catch butterflies, theyll just fly away.
But if you build a beautiful garden first, plenty will come on their own"
Well… come to think of it, maybe. Insulting yourself might also be delusional.
But, there’s this concept of “Negative bias” in psychology which states that negativity is a biological human instinct.
>there’s this concept of “Negative bias” in psychology which states that negativity is a biological human instinct
What's the benefit of having negative bias?
Yes! There is no benefit, it’s just human nature.
Our bain likes to ignore all the good things, and then focus & highlight its attention towards the bad things.
Firstly, stay away from PUA and never call it "game" or "pickup".
I've come across people that tried PUA and it was always a car crash. What sums it up the most was a guy I met at a Meetup event where he was telling me had actually executed some PUA lines. Hmmm I thought as it suddenly made sense - I saw him appear to pick up a hot 23 yo, then I saw him managed out of their group as they closed a cab door in on his face when they were leaving. So what he had actually done is being this persistently annoying guy they couldn't get rid off. Thing is that's the best case scenario i.e. being an annoying idiot.
Typically guys that read books on game don't even do that so kudos to him for trying, but that shitty result is the best that PUA ever achieves, if at all. I knew a guy in college and have met others at Meetups and it's always lousy results, they come across as mechanical and obvious which is a huge turn off.
Instead might be worth looking into psychology and reading up to see what might have caused this situation. Nobody is "just born shy" and often not getting dates by your mid 20s when you wanted to comes back to the basics - could be one parent or both being toxic, could be something outside the home. Even just finding out what it is would do more for you than any lousy book or seminar on PUA. Contrary to what those on the FA sub will claim, therapist are usually good at helping people find their first relationship in their 20s or beyond, it can take 2 years minimum but you would gain a huge amount on so many levels.
Alternatively maybe look at your current job or situation and see if there is an alternative job you would like that would improve your confidence. A lot of service industry jobs or jobs engaging with the public will build your confidence up in natural ways no books on PUA will.
People often suggest clubs etc, but in my experience that is something to try once you have found good therapy or made progress with a job that improves your confidence. I've been in drama groups where people are using that alone for confidence and their progress is glacial at best, do these hobbies if you like them, not for developing social skills.
Thanks for letting me know about PUA, I won’t delve into PUA crap just as you said…
However, trust me! I wouldn’t have been asking such questions on this subReddit if I had gotten female attention in my previous life.
Those who have good SkiLLs get attention from people since childhood and are good at navigating social-dynamics because they were exposed to such situations since a very young age. However that’s not the case with me. Let’s just say that I spent most of my teenage years inside a closed room. I’m lazy, unenthusiastic, boring, and lack that so-called CHARM. And I really wanna change that, because it’s difficult to survive without all that.
And by ‘game’ I mean that I wanna develop my own style of doing things and being a true gentleman who treats people well. A guy who is the life of the party. A person who doesn’t run out of topics to speak of, who doesn’t seem boring to a woman, who always keeps her interested & engrossed in him, who radiates positive vibes. & ik that, being the gloomy person I am at the present moment, I’m no-way close to that person.
Stay away from “game” “pickup” tactics. Women are disgusted by it and it will make you drown in misogyny and redpilling. You’ll end up alone and miserable. Focus on making female friends (NOT talking to women with the intent of having sex or dating them. Again, we’re human beings). Also, confidence leads to humor. Humor leads to women being interested. It’s 100x more important than looks. I consider myself an attractive woman and I’ve never gone for an unfunny but good-looking guy. In comparison, I’ve gone for plenty of hilarious average/lower than average looking men.
When improving your confidence, focus on doing it in areas of your life that don’t involve women, dating or sex. Trying to improve confidence only relating to these aspects will fail.
Yup, ik that whamen are INTUITIVE and can catch intentions pretty easily. I’m well aware of the fact that they can see the horniness on the face & in the tonality. I know that if I ask someone any questions, it needs to genuine, sincere and without any malicious intent.
However, you’re kinda wrong about the humour part. As humour is subjective and everyone has a different type. What might be funny for someone might not be funny for someone else. I’ve seen people with like literal normie humour get w0men. Meanwhile, I on the other hand have a pretty dark sense of humour. My jokes can get very offensive, and it can just make anyone feel very uncomfortable.(Your average “family guy” fan here✋). I very well know that I can’t crack edgy jokes around women, that’s a very huge turn-off. Tell me about it.
Lots of women love dark humor, I’m one of them. You just have to know the place and time it’s acceptable and maybe wait until you know them more before showing them this type of humor, otherwise it can come across as creepy and awkward. My past boyfriends have all had pretty dark humor but they didn’t spring it up on my on the first meeting, because when you don’t know the person very well, dark humor can just come off as your true beliefs and put girls off.
> I very well know that I can’t crack edgy jokes around women, that’s a very huge turn-off. Tell me about it.
Not true at all. “Women” are not a homogenous blob of a group. We’re all different and love/hate different things. This is part of the “we’re human beings” thing I’m telling you about. Start deconstructing these generalizing beliefs about women if you actually want the company of one. No woman wants to be around someone who looks down on them.
But as I said, it depends on your familiarity with this particular woman. And that goes for any person, not just women. Crack racist jokes around people who don’t know you very well and they’ll just see you as a racist person.
I see, so I get to crack such jokes depending ONLY on the degree of familiarity and the level of comfort. huh? So you’re saying that I’ve to ease into it and then later start saying those jokes when there’s some resonance and vibe, when the sense of humour also matches.
Well, thanks. I didn’t know that it was possible, thanks for opening my eyes.
[I apologise for generalising stuff. You see, I’ve had next to none female interaction in my life. So still don’t know what to say or how to say to them. I’m still learning. Even I myself don’t want to be insultive or condescending to anyone. Again, I guess I need to know how to be respectful to them without coming across as a creep.]
You seem like a perfectly fine guy who is kind and willing to learn and be an empathetic human being. You’ll do well in life and with girls. If you ever need any more help or just want to talk, my DMs are open for you. Good luck!
No dude never happened to me. Trust me! I’m pretty competent in my work. I’ve had decent grades throughout my studies. I’m successful, earn well, & everything else. I still don’t get female attention despite that. (I kinda lack in the looks & communication-skills department)
All that look inwards, passion, & all stuff I’m over with. I’ve realised that you literally need to know how to behave with women, and communicate, and get some fashion sense, etc; to be able to even qualify to talk to w0men.
Word of advice, don’t bring up your studies, career or salary when talking about women or talking to people period, if the question comes up sure talk about those things but you need to lead the interaction with who you are as a man & human, game stems from having a strong sense of self & being the best version of you. Your salary doesn’t define you it’s almost like you lead with superficial things or your wallet that’s a another reason why your not successful with women. Focus on mastering & loving yourself OP that’s the best thing you can do, getting woman will come naturally after you master yourself. And ofc social skills & approaching women, never be afraid to approach just be respectful and a gentleman when doing so & stop leading with your salary that’s great for you financially wise but no one cares when you have game & a sense of self in all ways!!!
Taht’s exactly what I was tryna say… “All taht success money & all, and yet I don’t get w0men.” You can’t get w0men if you don’t know how to behave around them, dunno how to talk to them, don’t have any fashion-sense, don’t have any personal hygiene or grooming, etc; (If you haven’t got game, no amount of money success is gonna help you, & I learnt it the pretty hard way)
Precisely why I was emphasising that learning game is necessary. You don’t stick your salary-slip on your head while talking to w0men in a bar. All that can help you is “game”
Thanks for the advice though, really appreciate it. You were being real.
Yup! I’m well aware that I need to improve my communication skills and all. However, ik that many people wouldn’t be able to handle my polarising opinions on topics. It’s like I have a literal knack for offending people. Furthermore, my sense of humour is very different from others, pretty sure w0men do not like my sense of humour.(Yes! It’s your average ‘family guy’ fan here🙋♂️)
I usually stay quiet so that people do not persecute me. I push them away before they do.👀😬
Looks can always be improved by working out, grooming aswell as a haircut, in order to not scare away women you musn’t come off as a creep in other words try ti present yourself with pure intentions, just don’t come off too pure, otherwise they might think that you would like to just be friends which is a different shipwreck. Nothing wrong with dark humour aka “family guy” humour, you just have to know the limits of the person you’re talking to in order not to offend or scare them off, in other words there’s alot of caution that has to be taken in the talking stages, but once you’re both comfortable with each other, all that shouldn’t be an issue, just have to maintain yourself overtime. Best of luck, it’s ruthless out there
Yup! I’m well aware that it’s pretty ruthless out there.
I’m kinda wealthy yet my looks are so bad that I look broke even in expensive clothing. I have to literally wear pretty ultra-classy & flashy clothes to look half as decent. Also, w0men literally run away when I grow out a full-grown beard, guess I need to maintain a stubble. Moreover, my voice & tonality is very deep. Like wayy too deep. ik deep voice is considered masculine but my voice is literally deeper than morgan freeman for guy in his early 20’s.
A beard shouldn’t be a problem, maybe you just didn’t take proper care of it or didn’t groom it properly, clothing is another thing, if by expensive you mean obonoxious (clothing with big branding on them/ hypebeast type of stuff) then yeah might be a turn off, i prefer clean looking clothes with no or little to none branding on them, althought my style has gotten pretty bad due to clothes being worn out and money being thight. To improve and find a style for you i reccomend watching a few videos on youtube from @TeachingMenFashion, they pretty much cover everything from how to present yourself to women and the general public as a whole. Appearance/style, grooming ect.
Wrong, I'll just copy and paste an reply I gave on another thread :
"Not wrong, but not as true as you'd like
I've never been as accomplished as I am today
I have a great, interesting, ethical and well-paid job in which I do well
I'm in great shape, have been swimming, running, climbing, and weight lifting consistently for years
I've started dancing rock, salsa, tango, quickstep and a whole lot of other dances in aclub in which I met a lot of friends, male and female, that are now my current social circle.
I'm well spoken and am much more knowledgeable than most of the people I hang around, I'm very often listening to podcasts and have read a few philosophy books and essays these past years, as well as a lot of articles
I play the piano and sing in a band, we're gonna start performing soon
Finally, I'm socially able in most situations, have a few very close friends to whom I can tell anything and everything.
Unfortunately, this excessive self development attitude, that has been and still is very positive to me all things considered, has become a shell, a way to escape the fact that I'm lonely.
I may have become incredibly better at nearly everything in my life in just 3 or 4 years, I stoll struggle a lot with love and seduction. I'm alone most of the time, and it's all the more frustrating that yes, I do attract girls much better than I used to.
It's just that it's not enough. At some point if you want not only to attract girls but to enter a relationship or have sex with them, you have to get better at this thing specifically.
I have some friends that are fat, jobless, who have no talent, that haven't done any other kind of sport than clicking their mouse for the past few years, who are much less knowledgeable than I am... But they get much more girls than I do, simply because they are better at this task specifically."
I highly recommend looking up Vanessa van Edwards on YouTube. She teaches just about everything you’d need to learn that has to do with social interactions.
Don't think of it as how to get girls. Think of it as "how do I become a better version of who I am now?" If you do that, the rest will fall into place on its own. There are no pre-written scripts or techniques that will win someone over if they don't otherwise feel attracted to you, and/or see a future with you as someone they want to be with.
Think of it the other way round. If you were completely uninterested in a woman, didn't feel chemistry with them, didn't feel attracted to them, didn't see a future there etc. what throw-away line, or change of body language, or whatever other technique would they be able to use to change your mind? None. It wouldn't work, and that's the same from their point of view.
There are, however, a million ways the vast majority of people can improve extremely quickly. Eat a better diet, exercise, read some fashion blogs and buy some clothes that suit you, choose a nice cologne etc. Longer term, are you in the job you want? Do you need to go back and study to get there, or can you train on the job, get promoted etc. ?
Yeah true! Nothing can be more revolting than the affection of someone you’re not interested in.
However, that doesn’t mean that she gonna be impressed by you if you go to your date in your binge watching PJs with an unbrushed bed head smelling like onions and garlic.
All that “game, looks, fashion, etc;” stuff is necessary too. (Trust me! I’ve got the career, car, success, intellectual, etc; stuff covered. It’s just the lack of game & social-skills, and loneliness part that’s crippling me)
I 100% recommend starting with finding a female friend. All relationships have layers and by looking for a romantic relationship (friendship + various types of intimacies) right off the bat that may be setting the bar really high. There is a lot to navigate in a romantic relationship but with friendship there is a lot more latitude to learn and grow. I know you mentioned “game” and “pickup” but I’m choosing to believe you are looking for an intimate connection that validates your feelings of worth. (No shade - that’s a basic human desire.) If you haven’t had much experience with women it may be difficult for you to show up as an equal partner in a romantic relationship. I also saw you mention a phobia and that is totally normal and you aren’t alone. Baby steps and exposure therapy work! So maybe the first step is to find a female friend online and start chatting.
I know it’s scary but I’m rooting for you.
Thanks for the advice.
Come to think of it, it’s a nice idea. I think I’ll be needing some 5-6 female friends. And for that I need to develop a lot of patience.
As we all know that platonic relationships are very difficult. I, personally, have heard some nightmarish stories from where the guy was thinking of her as a ‘female friend’ and then she ended up confessing to him.🤦♂️ Also, get a gut-feeling that the female friend is gonna get offended & jealous if I ask her about teaching me how to get other girls to date me.😬
Nice suggestion. It’s like up for it but I’m kinda hesitant about it at the same time. idk what to think about it, it can go either ways😰
I personally have a handful of guy friends and it hasn’t been complicated or difficult. If feelings from one party arise you can just set boundaries. I’ve had guy friends express romantic interest in me and I’ve been able to say, no I’m not interested in that. It either goes back to the way it was or the guy decides he can’t continue to be my friend. It sucks to lose a friend but it’s the healthiest choice for him. And as his friend I totally respect that. It certainly doesn’t have to be a nightmare or full of drama. And it shouldn’t.
I also don’t see why a female friend would be offended or jealous of you discussing other relationships you are seeking in your life. You should strive to build well rounded friendships with all types of people. You should ask: what do I bring to the table in this friendship? How can I be a good, supportive friend? It sounds like you have a lot of judgements on how women behave or how you can use them which is not a great attitude for forming relationships (or any kind.) I’ve certainly talked to my guy friends about their dating life and even helped troubleshoot things. But our friendship is built on so many other things and we do life together so we can talk about all aspects of our life. It’s not like my friendships with guys are just based on me giving dating advice. That would be a shitty friendship for me.
The whole point of starting with friendship with women is that it’s a pretty low stakes way to work through your fears and learn how to have relationships based on respect, reciprocity, and vulnerability with someone you can trust.
How do you view the friendships you have now? I ask because your response made me wonder if you see it as transactional versus relational.
All my friends are boys. And I know them from a long time. My friend circle is pretty small. Just a gang of 5 guys who hangout at weekends having long deep conversations about life & other myriad philosophical topics. They would literally take a bullet for me. Trust me! They’d literally burn down the city if anything were to happen to me. I’m blessed to have such friends.
However, I am pretty choosy & sceptical about whom I consider my friend. You need to at least know me for a minimum of 6-months for me to even consider someone as a probable friend. I choose “quality over quantity”. We only have 24hrs in a day, and I do not have the mental capacity to make 100s of friends. I have very few friends and I throw a lot of tests at them. Everyone else is just an acquaintance. I have always believed that “One TRUE friend is always invariably better than a thousand fake ones”.
But yeah, just as you said It’d never hurt to have a female friend. Pray that I get a few genuine ones.
Yes, I 100% agree with you on quality over quantity. And I’m so glad you have that close group of friends! That’s really amazing.
I have one book suggestion that a lot of my guy friends have been reading lately (it’s on my shelf but I haven’t started it yet.) They all say it’s pretty life changing. It’s called Man Enough by Justin Baldoni. There is also a podcast by that name and they talk a lot about masculine/feminine roles, community, philosophy, etc. I’ve heard nothing but great things about it!
It’s been great talking to you and learning your perspective. I wish you all the best on your self discovery and relationship journey!
Thank you!
Even I have another book on gender roles in my shelf, idk how it is, i haven’t read it yet. It’s called “Men are from mars, women are from venus” something…
Anyways, thank you for your advice and wish you all the wealth & success.👍
OP, you seem to be dismissing a few helpful comments - coming off very defensive and not fully reading in to what people are suggesting for you. If you truly need advice, try to read and absorb what you are seeing. Try to take advice from myself, a F25, who has been in a few longterm relationships (3) and has also had several "fun" nights out. What I am attracted to, as many other women I know, is a man with confidence, is easy to talk to, has many of the same hobbies as I do, a similar lifestyle (ie partying every once in a while, the outdoors, etc.) and has longterm life goals. Fitness is an important factor as well.
Confidence is most definitely key. Not lying to yourself... or being extremely critical of yourself. You need to build confidence with the previously mentioned self-improvement methods, or with other ones you may come across. Once you believe you are in a state where you deserve a great, loving, beautiful partner, you will start to attract this.
I think the place you need to start is with your first impression. You mentioned how you put yourself out there 7-8 times and things just went downhill with these women. I want you to think about how you approached these women, what you discussed with them, how did your body language come off, did anything specific make them act extremely uncomfortable? The answer isn't to not put yourself out there and approach women, or you will never fix the issue at hand. But, you do not want to keep approaching women the same way and expecting a different outcome. You need to analyze the situation and change things that are making the women act standoffish or uncomfy.
After you get past the initial contact, try to just be relaxed as possible. Act like this girl is a longtime friend of yours and you are just catching up on life. Be confident, ask them questions about their life, career, hobbies, and then try to relate to these in some sort of way. For example, she says she is interested in going to cosmetology school and traveling. How do you relate to this? Are you also focused on your career? Have you been wanting to travel to south america for years? Do you relate at all? The answer may be no... not every girl will be the one for you. When you find a girl that sparks your interest and you relate to, the conversation will likely come very easily. However, there may be brief periods where things get silent or awkward... this happens when you meet new people. If these keep getting longer and longer, just try to bring up conversation, mention the live band that is currently playing, the odd things the person across the room has been doing, ask her what her go-to drink is.
At the end of the night/conversation, even if you think maybe you came off as awkward, etc., put yourself out there and ask her for her number (if you like her that is lol). It takes time to truly get to know someone, it won't happen just in one night. Don't be so hard on yourself if things don't go the way you planned. Keep trying with other girls, don't try to force things.
Are you just introverted, or scared of people? Social anxiety is a thing, and it really can be overwhelming. If you are just introverted, go out there and talk to people. Start small. Don't expect anything, every interaction is already a win. Smile. Show people you are interested.
Smile huh? My smile literally looks like some ‘Victorian condescending smirk’. My face looks serious, even when I’m happy. idk, if it’s a cosmetic defect or maybe I’m that stoic.
[ik that this some r/introvert stuff, but still…]
I guess I’ll have practice giving a smile then. I’m not used to happiness anyway, perhaps I’m gonna have to make more efforts.
Maybe you are feeling like a Victorian? Best smile is honest smile. No matter how you look. But it's about eyes too. You cannot fake the eyes while smiling.
But don’t actors do that all the time? (Not only actors but other extroverted enthusiastic people like salesmen & all too, all of them, so convincingly good fake-smiles)
Well, if they are extroverted, they might be happy inside just from being around people alone. Introverts can do it too, you just have to find some love for people within yourself.
“find some love for people” Lol.
There once used to be a phase in my life where I used to avoid all human interaction possible. (Yes! I was a shut-in neet)
It's not that unusual, for one to isolate himself from the world. I did it too. In the years of my life where I should be exploring it. It doesn't matter. Only present matter, this is where you can change anything you want.
Start making goals to yourself everyday. Gaining confidence is easy with consistency. For instance, make a point to speak to, or compliment one girl every day. After that I would recommend taking up a more active lifestyle and taking care of yourself; no woman wants a man who can't do that. Quit making excuses and get to work
What?! Speak to & complement stranger girls daily? Dude, you wanna get me arrested or something? huh?!😨
On a serious note, do you really think they be willing to force a conversation when they’re not in the mood or not interested in you? Do you think they’re gonna like phoney complements, you think she’s not gonna catch onto that? Do you really think they’re not that aware of themselves, their looks, or their surroundings? I think they get dozens of complements everyday.
[I wasn’t trying to mock you or anything. Those were seriously my sincere concerns. I really am quite unfamiliar with such things. Again, I apologise if I was sounding silly or was sounding like a noob.]
You have a very valid point with that, and i totally agree that they most likely won't care nor really be affected by whatever you say. My point is, however, competence builds confidence. And one of the best ways, in my biased opinion, to build competence is to force yourself into a situation you don't necessarily like or aren't used to. In other words: How do you expect to get better at talking to women, without making an effort to do so. Because I will outright tell you it is a skill that you need to practice. Please though, don't get arrested for saying something to a girl lol
Don't overthink it. If you just walk by someone and say something like "You're really pretty." The only thing a rational person could do is just say thank you. And you move on with your life, as do they. If your goal is to genuinely try to better yourself and your own confidence, then you will face this head on. And if you ever want advice or genuinely need a second opinion, please feel free to message me.
I don't mean to assault them with your eyes. I'm literally saying to just give someone random a compliment you see out on the street one day and keep walking. Don't overthink it. Build a foundation.
I’m going to echo the sentiment that even the idea of pickup is misguided.
That said the whole “be yourself” is bullshit.
I’m a socially awkward dude whose idea of fun is playing chess and watching streamers play yugioh online. For the most part my life is a mess and I’m an emotional rollercoaster. I’m not popular by any means. Yet, despite this I’m literally drowning in pussy. It’s like the one thing I have. Follow these steps and you’ll be as well
1. Be attractive. Don’t be unattractive
This doesn’t mean you have to be born attractive. Or that you need to be tall or ripped. If you’re a straight man you can go from a 5 to an 8 by getting a good haircut; throwing out all your graphic tees; wearing well fitted; single colored clothes; taking care of all your hygenie needs (include a skin care routine), cutting your hair, wearing nice shoes and putting on any cologne.
I’m taking a shit so I’ve skipped a few details but that’s about it. Do that and you’re suddenly in the top 80% percentile of men. Women are tired of being hit on by dudes who floss twice a week
2. Fix your intentions.
In the same way men are just better at hand eye coordination women are just better at reading your intention. It’s a 6th sense. They know what you’re thinking.
So if your intention is to fuck but you’re asking her where the nearest Starbucks is she can tell and will think you’re creepy.
Your intention should be honest. It should be that you found her attractive so you decided to approach her to find out if she’s a good match.
3. Doesn’t matter you say. It matters how you say it.
This is why I think most pickup lines are bs. You can say any goddamn thing. Women will respond once you say it right.
Be confident. Talk slowly. Pronounce your words right. Make it easy for her to follow you.
4. Remember that she usually wants you to win.
Believe it or not women want love, sex and intimacy and for the most part have no idea how to approach a guy. Once you’re attractive (see step 1) she is actually secretly rooting for you.
5. If she doesn’t want you to score, it’s for a good reason.
Sometimes she has a boyfriend, sometimes she doesn’t like black dudes, sometimes you sound like her ex, sometimes she’s going through depression.
The point is, if she isn’t immediately interested don’t try to wear her down and persuade her. Move on, you have a billion options. If she rejects you give her a “no prob, take it as a compliment “ and move on with life.
6. Learn how to escalate
Shoulders, holding hands, lower back, hand on thigh, kiss, ass grabbing.
Go in more or less this order. Listen to how her body responds as you escalate throughout the night. If she tenses up, go down a level.
7. Take the role as the man
This doesn’t mean that she’s some submissive child with no agency. It just means that you have to do all the unpleasant shit. Don’t try to split the bill. Pay for it. Open the door for her. Be the one to risk rejection, not her. All the awkward and unpleasant shit is on you bro.
8. Make it a safe space.
Don’t go around judging people for being sluts on your date. Or for being too stiff. Don’t try to neg or peacock or any of that weird stuff a lot of dudes come with this Redditor “better than thou” energy. And are surprised when she’s uncomfortable around your judgmental ass. Cut that out. Be chill.
That’s about it. Others would say to have a good lifestyle and social proof and sweet lines and cool conversations. And honestly. Nope. All of that presumes that the girl doesn’t want to fuck too. Which she does. Your competition is wearing a fedora and smelly jeans. It’s a lot more about not getting in your own way than driving an expensive car
Yoo! Mr. Hitch, Albert here.
Dude! You’ve gone way too deep for me to comprehend… I lost you after the 3rd point. Getting female attention and having a long conversation with them seems like a long shot for me. I be the type of guy who would mess up giving an order at a McD counter if the cashier’s a girl.
I be the kinda guy who has difficulty at the eye-contact stage. If I somehow muster the courage to speak, I end up freezing like an antelope in headlights.
However, thanks for the advice. I needed that. Not many people give real detailed practical advice.
The last time I spoke to a girl was this morning after tennis. She was on the court next to me and the way it’s set up the benches are all in the same place.
I was on Reddit after my game and she sat nearish to me on the benches. I looked at her and asked her what she thinks about trump being arrested.
It wasn’t smooth. In fact she was visibly thrown off by this sweaty stranger asking her a question about trump at 7am on a Sunday morning. If I was smooth, I would have brought up something about tennis which is an obvious shared interest and not something decisive like politics. Something that, as it turns out she had no interest or knowledge about.
But I’m not smooth. And I don’t try to be. I asked because I was reading a Reddit thread on the out of the loop subreddit and I was currently interested in it.
Because I’m interested in it it’s easy to talk about. I told her about the current stormy Daniel situation, completely butchering the facts. We ended up finding common ground about the optics of the situation and whether this might galvanize his base which led to her talking about her job which is basically PR.
After like 5 minutes the conversation came to a lull. I think this is the moment that a lot of men fear. I certainly used too. But like, this awkward moment is when you’re supposed to be a man. So I asked her if she was on instagram and we followed each other.
I’m probably never going to message her again. But if I wanted to, I’d ask her if she wants to go to the beach and she’d probably say yes. I know she’s a beach girl because nearly all her instagram pictures are her in a bikini on the beach.
I’m sharing this because this is kind of how most of these interactions go. There’s no smooth pickup line, we don’t get lost in 3hr long conversations, she isn’t grabbing her belly and dying of laughter.
If you can do that AND you don’t talk so damn fast she can’t follow you’re golden. You can muddle your way through it despite feeling anxious because 99% of men would have said nothing to the cute girl who sat next to them.
Yup!
But I have a question; why would she agree to go to the beach with an almost stranger? You’ve just had one conversation with her, how can you be so sure of yourself?
I mean, looking at her beach pics and then inviting her to the beach?… doesn’t that sound kinda imposing and invasive? idk, I’m not sure if she’d mind that or not? Wouldn’t she get offended or something, and then file a case for harassment or something?😱😬
oh god! idk anything about such things. I’m so insecure that I sometimes feel that my existence itself makes them uncomfortable or something.(Yes! I guess I might have self-esteem issues too)
[I’m literally completely unfamiliar about these things and that’s precisely the reason why I’m asking such things here. Sorry, if I come across as some immature noob.😓]
Start approaching… simple as that, watch “the single guy” channel on youtube, tripp advice is also pretty good. You you want to get the mindset it’s not the pill people, watch “einzelganger” alongside the 2 i mentioned (it’s more towards ancient philosophy for the modern world type content)
I made nearly 7-8 approaches a few weeks ago… A friend of mine forced me to make those approaches, he said that he’d puch me real hard if I didn’t make those approaches… Initially in first 2-3 approaches w0men were running away just by looking at me(yup! guess I’m that ugly). Later, somehow with each approach I got better. However, I was rejected by most of them. Few of them got literally uncomfortable because of my existence.
[The experience was very overwhelming for my introverted personality, my mind literally switched off after all of that. Also, my self-esteem & ego took a great hit too. Quite the humbling experience I was looking for.]
It’s great that you started approaching already the next step is consistency, several times a week and each week you add to what you did (different conversational techniques, flirting techniques or whatever). Approaching, game or “pickup” is a skill that you have to develop over time. You’re not alone, I was like that when I started out, I was an introvert and I DEFINITELY creeped girls out several times but it’s ok, if they reject you chances are you’re never gonna see them again (this was 10 years ago. I landed on simple pickup so that started me off). You’re doing this for yourself, remember that, and you’re so lucky to have friends encouraging you, when I was doing it I was out there by myself. A 16 year old kid with ADHD and aspergers with no friends out in “the world” (by that it’s different malls around the city. Malls where I’m from are awesome) alone talking to strangers. Yeah, rejections after rejections after rejections but I slowly got better over time because I took action and was consistent. If I can do it then you can do it.
Dude! What about the “my male-ego is hurting” part?
And Besides, The I idea that I was forced to approach strangers still haunts me. Moreover, I just literally freeze after the initial few questions. I’m a what you’d call a precise speaker so I give one word answers to their questions, i am well aware that it’s a huge turnoff and it can make things pretty awkward.🙈
Wouldn’t the situation get pretty awkward if that happens? The public humiliation for doing such a thing would be too hard to bear. I don’t wanna be “butt of all jokes” or “the clown of the class” all over again. That phase was gone long ago.😬🙈
(p.s: - i know & i have seen people who’re smooth and good since the very beginning.)
Yes, it will feel awkward and so what of it? People don’t give a shit, they just go back to do whatever they were doing. Butt of jokes is a non issue, that’s just their problem and not yours… when you do this consistently you build a thicker skin and it doesn’t bother you anymore and that’s the same for confidence and whatever else. Get after it dude
You really sure about that?
Don’t w0men care about “RePuTaTioN” too? Don’t they look for someone whom she could respect or admire or something? idk, i have apprehensions that they might think of me as some clown and dismiss me.🙈
I guess I have to keep at it then. Guess it’s a river which can only be crossed by drowning first.
Lol, I’ve been working out since few months. My arms and legs have a great shape & gained some nice muscle. However, I’m unable to get rid of my big belly.
(I don’t have any pics for now)
Alright. Now then, start changing your diet.
I want you to start meal prepping meals you find appetizing but healthy. Learn some recipes, it'll be fun.
Yeah sure. What kind of diet am I supposed to follow? (I don’t take any supplements, I need to get the protein for lifting weights through food itself)
Definitely agree with you bro!
I even relate with Gyutaro’s character from the latest demon slayer movie.
Also there this concept called “halo effect” in psychology. and then there are things like “pretty privilege” & all
Cap, stop living on social media & go talk to woman in real life I mean ofc look the best you can but do it for you , game stems from YOU! Not women, who are you? The problem is that you guys hate yourselves
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The first thing to do is to work on your confidence. Confidence is key when it comes to meeting new people, and it can be built up through self-improvement and practice. This can include things like working on your physical fitness, improving your fashion sense, and practicing good grooming habits. Once you feel more confident, you can start practicing your social skills. This means putting yourself out there and talking to people. Start with small talk with strangers and work your way up to more meaningful conversations. There are also lots of resources online that can help you learn specific techniques for meeting and attracting women, such as pickup artists and dating coaches.
Ooh! I forgot to mention, I think might have “gynophobia” too
If you are a straight male and follow the tips above overtime you should be alright. And don’t use gynophobia as an excuse, the more you tell yourself that gynophobia is the issue the more you will believe it, just try to compliment yourself more often for me personally, complimenting myself raised my confidence through the roof. Which in fact lead to more success with women.
But isn’t complementing yourself kinda delusional? What better is it if you’re not making a conscious abundant efforts and actions towards it? Wouldn’t it be the same as lying to yourself?🧐🤔
Not necessarily, it all depends on what you decide to complement yourself on, for example if you’re fat and you try to convince yourself that you’re big boned even though you’re not, then yeah that’s just you being delusional, but if you decide to complement yourself for having a beautiful smile, then it’s not delusion, most people these days tend to only notice everything negative about themselves rather than noticing their positive features thus lowering their confidence. Ignoring unhealthy habbits or ignoring the fact that you as a person might be overweight or underweight is also unacceptable, those kind of things should be taken notice of and improved, not necessarily transforming yourself into an athlete (unless that’s what you desire). Kinda forgot what i was on about but keeping yourself fit is mandatory.
I still believe that we should only complement ourselves ONLY when we’re making enough efforts and hardwork towards it. ik that it’s some ‘autosuggestion’ “subconscious mind” thingy & it helps improve the self-esteem and all. There’s this notion in the psychology of trauma too, that “What you tell yourself about the event matter more than the actual event itself.” And yet, despite all of that it all seems like a delusional-fantasy to me, personally. You know there are several medical conditions because of which people are obese right. Please do not mock obese people, I had an obese childhood and had to go through a lot of crap in those days. Well, it’s all in the past now. I’m in good shape now, but not in the best though. However, yeah there are literally some medical conditions where people cannot lose weight no matter how much diet & exercise they do. Similarly, on the contrary, there are those genetically gifted people who get a 6-pack just by doing some slight mild workout.
Sure there are some cases, but most of the time people tend to use these rare cases as an excuse for themselves to be lazy, had a friend who was built like tyson fury, but still kept working out in order to be happier and stronger, so no shame in that.
Do you ever insult yourself?
Yes! I do. Whenever I miss a deadline, or when I fail to reach a goal. I do it. ik I can be hard on myself but that’s how I grew up. There was a phase in my life when achievements meant a lot to me.
Honestly beating yourself up isnt the way to go. Im on the selfimprovement journey myself and have learnt that while sometimes you may fuck up, bringing yourself down does more damage than the supposed motivation It should give. Learn to love yourself first, find your confidence, and then someone might love fall for you. It may be cheesy but a comment I read in here a little ago seems to be fitting: "If you try to catch butterflies, theyll just fly away. But if you build a beautiful garden first, plenty will come on their own"
Yup! Even I read it somewhere that “When you take care of yourself, other people wanna take care of you too.”
If complimenting yourself is delusional, is insulting yourself delusional as well?
Well… come to think of it, maybe. Insulting yourself might also be delusional. But, there’s this concept of “Negative bias” in psychology which states that negativity is a biological human instinct.
>there’s this concept of “Negative bias” in psychology which states that negativity is a biological human instinct What's the benefit of having negative bias?
Yes! There is no benefit, it’s just human nature. Our bain likes to ignore all the good things, and then focus & highlight its attention towards the bad things.
dont insult yourself. Burn yourself a little bit with a lighter everytime you fuck up.
Oh yeah all the time to motivate myself to push harder
Firstly, stay away from PUA and never call it "game" or "pickup". I've come across people that tried PUA and it was always a car crash. What sums it up the most was a guy I met at a Meetup event where he was telling me had actually executed some PUA lines. Hmmm I thought as it suddenly made sense - I saw him appear to pick up a hot 23 yo, then I saw him managed out of their group as they closed a cab door in on his face when they were leaving. So what he had actually done is being this persistently annoying guy they couldn't get rid off. Thing is that's the best case scenario i.e. being an annoying idiot. Typically guys that read books on game don't even do that so kudos to him for trying, but that shitty result is the best that PUA ever achieves, if at all. I knew a guy in college and have met others at Meetups and it's always lousy results, they come across as mechanical and obvious which is a huge turn off. Instead might be worth looking into psychology and reading up to see what might have caused this situation. Nobody is "just born shy" and often not getting dates by your mid 20s when you wanted to comes back to the basics - could be one parent or both being toxic, could be something outside the home. Even just finding out what it is would do more for you than any lousy book or seminar on PUA. Contrary to what those on the FA sub will claim, therapist are usually good at helping people find their first relationship in their 20s or beyond, it can take 2 years minimum but you would gain a huge amount on so many levels. Alternatively maybe look at your current job or situation and see if there is an alternative job you would like that would improve your confidence. A lot of service industry jobs or jobs engaging with the public will build your confidence up in natural ways no books on PUA will. People often suggest clubs etc, but in my experience that is something to try once you have found good therapy or made progress with a job that improves your confidence. I've been in drama groups where people are using that alone for confidence and their progress is glacial at best, do these hobbies if you like them, not for developing social skills.
Thanks for letting me know about PUA, I won’t delve into PUA crap just as you said… However, trust me! I wouldn’t have been asking such questions on this subReddit if I had gotten female attention in my previous life. Those who have good SkiLLs get attention from people since childhood and are good at navigating social-dynamics because they were exposed to such situations since a very young age. However that’s not the case with me. Let’s just say that I spent most of my teenage years inside a closed room. I’m lazy, unenthusiastic, boring, and lack that so-called CHARM. And I really wanna change that, because it’s difficult to survive without all that. And by ‘game’ I mean that I wanna develop my own style of doing things and being a true gentleman who treats people well. A guy who is the life of the party. A person who doesn’t run out of topics to speak of, who doesn’t seem boring to a woman, who always keeps her interested & engrossed in him, who radiates positive vibes. & ik that, being the gloomy person I am at the present moment, I’m no-way close to that person.
Learn to look at women as human beings maybe
Yup! That’s the first step. 👍 Guess I gotta develop some empathy, being the cold oblivious guy that I am.🤔
Stay away from “game” “pickup” tactics. Women are disgusted by it and it will make you drown in misogyny and redpilling. You’ll end up alone and miserable. Focus on making female friends (NOT talking to women with the intent of having sex or dating them. Again, we’re human beings). Also, confidence leads to humor. Humor leads to women being interested. It’s 100x more important than looks. I consider myself an attractive woman and I’ve never gone for an unfunny but good-looking guy. In comparison, I’ve gone for plenty of hilarious average/lower than average looking men. When improving your confidence, focus on doing it in areas of your life that don’t involve women, dating or sex. Trying to improve confidence only relating to these aspects will fail.
Yup, ik that whamen are INTUITIVE and can catch intentions pretty easily. I’m well aware of the fact that they can see the horniness on the face & in the tonality. I know that if I ask someone any questions, it needs to genuine, sincere and without any malicious intent. However, you’re kinda wrong about the humour part. As humour is subjective and everyone has a different type. What might be funny for someone might not be funny for someone else. I’ve seen people with like literal normie humour get w0men. Meanwhile, I on the other hand have a pretty dark sense of humour. My jokes can get very offensive, and it can just make anyone feel very uncomfortable.(Your average “family guy” fan here✋). I very well know that I can’t crack edgy jokes around women, that’s a very huge turn-off. Tell me about it.
Lots of women love dark humor, I’m one of them. You just have to know the place and time it’s acceptable and maybe wait until you know them more before showing them this type of humor, otherwise it can come across as creepy and awkward. My past boyfriends have all had pretty dark humor but they didn’t spring it up on my on the first meeting, because when you don’t know the person very well, dark humor can just come off as your true beliefs and put girls off. > I very well know that I can’t crack edgy jokes around women, that’s a very huge turn-off. Tell me about it. Not true at all. “Women” are not a homogenous blob of a group. We’re all different and love/hate different things. This is part of the “we’re human beings” thing I’m telling you about. Start deconstructing these generalizing beliefs about women if you actually want the company of one. No woman wants to be around someone who looks down on them. But as I said, it depends on your familiarity with this particular woman. And that goes for any person, not just women. Crack racist jokes around people who don’t know you very well and they’ll just see you as a racist person.
I see, so I get to crack such jokes depending ONLY on the degree of familiarity and the level of comfort. huh? So you’re saying that I’ve to ease into it and then later start saying those jokes when there’s some resonance and vibe, when the sense of humour also matches. Well, thanks. I didn’t know that it was possible, thanks for opening my eyes. [I apologise for generalising stuff. You see, I’ve had next to none female interaction in my life. So still don’t know what to say or how to say to them. I’m still learning. Even I myself don’t want to be insultive or condescending to anyone. Again, I guess I need to know how to be respectful to them without coming across as a creep.]
You seem like a perfectly fine guy who is kind and willing to learn and be an empathetic human being. You’ll do well in life and with girls. If you ever need any more help or just want to talk, my DMs are open for you. Good luck!
Wish you happiness and good luck to you too! Thanks for the important advice you gave, I’ll be sure to keep those points in mind.
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No dude never happened to me. Trust me! I’m pretty competent in my work. I’ve had decent grades throughout my studies. I’m successful, earn well, & everything else. I still don’t get female attention despite that. (I kinda lack in the looks & communication-skills department) All that look inwards, passion, & all stuff I’m over with. I’ve realised that you literally need to know how to behave with women, and communicate, and get some fashion sense, etc; to be able to even qualify to talk to w0men.
Word of advice, don’t bring up your studies, career or salary when talking about women or talking to people period, if the question comes up sure talk about those things but you need to lead the interaction with who you are as a man & human, game stems from having a strong sense of self & being the best version of you. Your salary doesn’t define you it’s almost like you lead with superficial things or your wallet that’s a another reason why your not successful with women. Focus on mastering & loving yourself OP that’s the best thing you can do, getting woman will come naturally after you master yourself. And ofc social skills & approaching women, never be afraid to approach just be respectful and a gentleman when doing so & stop leading with your salary that’s great for you financially wise but no one cares when you have game & a sense of self in all ways!!!
Taht’s exactly what I was tryna say… “All taht success money & all, and yet I don’t get w0men.” You can’t get w0men if you don’t know how to behave around them, dunno how to talk to them, don’t have any fashion-sense, don’t have any personal hygiene or grooming, etc; (If you haven’t got game, no amount of money success is gonna help you, & I learnt it the pretty hard way) Precisely why I was emphasising that learning game is necessary. You don’t stick your salary-slip on your head while talking to w0men in a bar. All that can help you is “game” Thanks for the advice though, really appreciate it. You were being real.
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Yup! I’m well aware that I need to improve my communication skills and all. However, ik that many people wouldn’t be able to handle my polarising opinions on topics. It’s like I have a literal knack for offending people. Furthermore, my sense of humour is very different from others, pretty sure w0men do not like my sense of humour.(Yes! It’s your average ‘family guy’ fan here🙋♂️) I usually stay quiet so that people do not persecute me. I push them away before they do.👀😬
Looks can always be improved by working out, grooming aswell as a haircut, in order to not scare away women you musn’t come off as a creep in other words try ti present yourself with pure intentions, just don’t come off too pure, otherwise they might think that you would like to just be friends which is a different shipwreck. Nothing wrong with dark humour aka “family guy” humour, you just have to know the limits of the person you’re talking to in order not to offend or scare them off, in other words there’s alot of caution that has to be taken in the talking stages, but once you’re both comfortable with each other, all that shouldn’t be an issue, just have to maintain yourself overtime. Best of luck, it’s ruthless out there
Yup! I’m well aware that it’s pretty ruthless out there. I’m kinda wealthy yet my looks are so bad that I look broke even in expensive clothing. I have to literally wear pretty ultra-classy & flashy clothes to look half as decent. Also, w0men literally run away when I grow out a full-grown beard, guess I need to maintain a stubble. Moreover, my voice & tonality is very deep. Like wayy too deep. ik deep voice is considered masculine but my voice is literally deeper than morgan freeman for guy in his early 20’s.
A beard shouldn’t be a problem, maybe you just didn’t take proper care of it or didn’t groom it properly, clothing is another thing, if by expensive you mean obonoxious (clothing with big branding on them/ hypebeast type of stuff) then yeah might be a turn off, i prefer clean looking clothes with no or little to none branding on them, althought my style has gotten pretty bad due to clothes being worn out and money being thight. To improve and find a style for you i reccomend watching a few videos on youtube from @TeachingMenFashion, they pretty much cover everything from how to present yourself to women and the general public as a whole. Appearance/style, grooming ect.
Thanks for the recommendation, will sure check it out.
-ps a deep voice tends to be sexy to women, you just have to try and not raise so you don’t scare the ladies 😅
Yes! Happened a lotta times
Wrong, I'll just copy and paste an reply I gave on another thread : "Not wrong, but not as true as you'd like I've never been as accomplished as I am today I have a great, interesting, ethical and well-paid job in which I do well I'm in great shape, have been swimming, running, climbing, and weight lifting consistently for years I've started dancing rock, salsa, tango, quickstep and a whole lot of other dances in aclub in which I met a lot of friends, male and female, that are now my current social circle. I'm well spoken and am much more knowledgeable than most of the people I hang around, I'm very often listening to podcasts and have read a few philosophy books and essays these past years, as well as a lot of articles I play the piano and sing in a band, we're gonna start performing soon Finally, I'm socially able in most situations, have a few very close friends to whom I can tell anything and everything. Unfortunately, this excessive self development attitude, that has been and still is very positive to me all things considered, has become a shell, a way to escape the fact that I'm lonely. I may have become incredibly better at nearly everything in my life in just 3 or 4 years, I stoll struggle a lot with love and seduction. I'm alone most of the time, and it's all the more frustrating that yes, I do attract girls much better than I used to. It's just that it's not enough. At some point if you want not only to attract girls but to enter a relationship or have sex with them, you have to get better at this thing specifically. I have some friends that are fat, jobless, who have no talent, that haven't done any other kind of sport than clicking their mouse for the past few years, who are much less knowledgeable than I am... But they get much more girls than I do, simply because they are better at this task specifically."
I highly recommend looking up Vanessa van Edwards on YouTube. She teaches just about everything you’d need to learn that has to do with social interactions.
Thanks for suggestion, will surely check it out
Don't think of it as how to get girls. Think of it as "how do I become a better version of who I am now?" If you do that, the rest will fall into place on its own. There are no pre-written scripts or techniques that will win someone over if they don't otherwise feel attracted to you, and/or see a future with you as someone they want to be with. Think of it the other way round. If you were completely uninterested in a woman, didn't feel chemistry with them, didn't feel attracted to them, didn't see a future there etc. what throw-away line, or change of body language, or whatever other technique would they be able to use to change your mind? None. It wouldn't work, and that's the same from their point of view. There are, however, a million ways the vast majority of people can improve extremely quickly. Eat a better diet, exercise, read some fashion blogs and buy some clothes that suit you, choose a nice cologne etc. Longer term, are you in the job you want? Do you need to go back and study to get there, or can you train on the job, get promoted etc. ?
Yeah true! Nothing can be more revolting than the affection of someone you’re not interested in. However, that doesn’t mean that she gonna be impressed by you if you go to your date in your binge watching PJs with an unbrushed bed head smelling like onions and garlic. All that “game, looks, fashion, etc;” stuff is necessary too. (Trust me! I’ve got the career, car, success, intellectual, etc; stuff covered. It’s just the lack of game & social-skills, and loneliness part that’s crippling me)
I 100% recommend starting with finding a female friend. All relationships have layers and by looking for a romantic relationship (friendship + various types of intimacies) right off the bat that may be setting the bar really high. There is a lot to navigate in a romantic relationship but with friendship there is a lot more latitude to learn and grow. I know you mentioned “game” and “pickup” but I’m choosing to believe you are looking for an intimate connection that validates your feelings of worth. (No shade - that’s a basic human desire.) If you haven’t had much experience with women it may be difficult for you to show up as an equal partner in a romantic relationship. I also saw you mention a phobia and that is totally normal and you aren’t alone. Baby steps and exposure therapy work! So maybe the first step is to find a female friend online and start chatting. I know it’s scary but I’m rooting for you.
Thanks for the advice. Come to think of it, it’s a nice idea. I think I’ll be needing some 5-6 female friends. And for that I need to develop a lot of patience. As we all know that platonic relationships are very difficult. I, personally, have heard some nightmarish stories from where the guy was thinking of her as a ‘female friend’ and then she ended up confessing to him.🤦♂️ Also, get a gut-feeling that the female friend is gonna get offended & jealous if I ask her about teaching me how to get other girls to date me.😬 Nice suggestion. It’s like up for it but I’m kinda hesitant about it at the same time. idk what to think about it, it can go either ways😰
I personally have a handful of guy friends and it hasn’t been complicated or difficult. If feelings from one party arise you can just set boundaries. I’ve had guy friends express romantic interest in me and I’ve been able to say, no I’m not interested in that. It either goes back to the way it was or the guy decides he can’t continue to be my friend. It sucks to lose a friend but it’s the healthiest choice for him. And as his friend I totally respect that. It certainly doesn’t have to be a nightmare or full of drama. And it shouldn’t. I also don’t see why a female friend would be offended or jealous of you discussing other relationships you are seeking in your life. You should strive to build well rounded friendships with all types of people. You should ask: what do I bring to the table in this friendship? How can I be a good, supportive friend? It sounds like you have a lot of judgements on how women behave or how you can use them which is not a great attitude for forming relationships (or any kind.) I’ve certainly talked to my guy friends about their dating life and even helped troubleshoot things. But our friendship is built on so many other things and we do life together so we can talk about all aspects of our life. It’s not like my friendships with guys are just based on me giving dating advice. That would be a shitty friendship for me. The whole point of starting with friendship with women is that it’s a pretty low stakes way to work through your fears and learn how to have relationships based on respect, reciprocity, and vulnerability with someone you can trust. How do you view the friendships you have now? I ask because your response made me wonder if you see it as transactional versus relational.
All my friends are boys. And I know them from a long time. My friend circle is pretty small. Just a gang of 5 guys who hangout at weekends having long deep conversations about life & other myriad philosophical topics. They would literally take a bullet for me. Trust me! They’d literally burn down the city if anything were to happen to me. I’m blessed to have such friends. However, I am pretty choosy & sceptical about whom I consider my friend. You need to at least know me for a minimum of 6-months for me to even consider someone as a probable friend. I choose “quality over quantity”. We only have 24hrs in a day, and I do not have the mental capacity to make 100s of friends. I have very few friends and I throw a lot of tests at them. Everyone else is just an acquaintance. I have always believed that “One TRUE friend is always invariably better than a thousand fake ones”. But yeah, just as you said It’d never hurt to have a female friend. Pray that I get a few genuine ones.
Yes, I 100% agree with you on quality over quantity. And I’m so glad you have that close group of friends! That’s really amazing. I have one book suggestion that a lot of my guy friends have been reading lately (it’s on my shelf but I haven’t started it yet.) They all say it’s pretty life changing. It’s called Man Enough by Justin Baldoni. There is also a podcast by that name and they talk a lot about masculine/feminine roles, community, philosophy, etc. I’ve heard nothing but great things about it! It’s been great talking to you and learning your perspective. I wish you all the best on your self discovery and relationship journey!
Thank you! Even I have another book on gender roles in my shelf, idk how it is, i haven’t read it yet. It’s called “Men are from mars, women are from venus” something… Anyways, thank you for your advice and wish you all the wealth & success.👍
OP, you seem to be dismissing a few helpful comments - coming off very defensive and not fully reading in to what people are suggesting for you. If you truly need advice, try to read and absorb what you are seeing. Try to take advice from myself, a F25, who has been in a few longterm relationships (3) and has also had several "fun" nights out. What I am attracted to, as many other women I know, is a man with confidence, is easy to talk to, has many of the same hobbies as I do, a similar lifestyle (ie partying every once in a while, the outdoors, etc.) and has longterm life goals. Fitness is an important factor as well. Confidence is most definitely key. Not lying to yourself... or being extremely critical of yourself. You need to build confidence with the previously mentioned self-improvement methods, or with other ones you may come across. Once you believe you are in a state where you deserve a great, loving, beautiful partner, you will start to attract this. I think the place you need to start is with your first impression. You mentioned how you put yourself out there 7-8 times and things just went downhill with these women. I want you to think about how you approached these women, what you discussed with them, how did your body language come off, did anything specific make them act extremely uncomfortable? The answer isn't to not put yourself out there and approach women, or you will never fix the issue at hand. But, you do not want to keep approaching women the same way and expecting a different outcome. You need to analyze the situation and change things that are making the women act standoffish or uncomfy. After you get past the initial contact, try to just be relaxed as possible. Act like this girl is a longtime friend of yours and you are just catching up on life. Be confident, ask them questions about their life, career, hobbies, and then try to relate to these in some sort of way. For example, she says she is interested in going to cosmetology school and traveling. How do you relate to this? Are you also focused on your career? Have you been wanting to travel to south america for years? Do you relate at all? The answer may be no... not every girl will be the one for you. When you find a girl that sparks your interest and you relate to, the conversation will likely come very easily. However, there may be brief periods where things get silent or awkward... this happens when you meet new people. If these keep getting longer and longer, just try to bring up conversation, mention the live band that is currently playing, the odd things the person across the room has been doing, ask her what her go-to drink is. At the end of the night/conversation, even if you think maybe you came off as awkward, etc., put yourself out there and ask her for her number (if you like her that is lol). It takes time to truly get to know someone, it won't happen just in one night. Don't be so hard on yourself if things don't go the way you planned. Keep trying with other girls, don't try to force things.
Thank you. I appreciate your wisdom. I really needed it. 👍
So hear me out. There is this dude you should watch who gets all the girls, he is an everything guy. Electrician, plumber, astronaut.
Johnny Sir! 🙏
Are you just introverted, or scared of people? Social anxiety is a thing, and it really can be overwhelming. If you are just introverted, go out there and talk to people. Start small. Don't expect anything, every interaction is already a win. Smile. Show people you are interested.
Smile huh? My smile literally looks like some ‘Victorian condescending smirk’. My face looks serious, even when I’m happy. idk, if it’s a cosmetic defect or maybe I’m that stoic. [ik that this some r/introvert stuff, but still…] I guess I’ll have practice giving a smile then. I’m not used to happiness anyway, perhaps I’m gonna have to make more efforts.
Maybe you are feeling like a Victorian? Best smile is honest smile. No matter how you look. But it's about eyes too. You cannot fake the eyes while smiling.
But don’t actors do that all the time? (Not only actors but other extroverted enthusiastic people like salesmen & all too, all of them, so convincingly good fake-smiles)
Well, if they are extroverted, they might be happy inside just from being around people alone. Introverts can do it too, you just have to find some love for people within yourself.
“find some love for people” Lol. There once used to be a phase in my life where I used to avoid all human interaction possible. (Yes! I was a shut-in neet)
It's not that unusual, for one to isolate himself from the world. I did it too. In the years of my life where I should be exploring it. It doesn't matter. Only present matter, this is where you can change anything you want.
Yes! You’re right. Gotta put in the efforts. I guess I can’t roam around in my comfy binge-watching PJs with my bed-head anymore. huh? Fine by me.
Start making goals to yourself everyday. Gaining confidence is easy with consistency. For instance, make a point to speak to, or compliment one girl every day. After that I would recommend taking up a more active lifestyle and taking care of yourself; no woman wants a man who can't do that. Quit making excuses and get to work
What?! Speak to & complement stranger girls daily? Dude, you wanna get me arrested or something? huh?!😨 On a serious note, do you really think they be willing to force a conversation when they’re not in the mood or not interested in you? Do you think they’re gonna like phoney complements, you think she’s not gonna catch onto that? Do you really think they’re not that aware of themselves, their looks, or their surroundings? I think they get dozens of complements everyday. [I wasn’t trying to mock you or anything. Those were seriously my sincere concerns. I really am quite unfamiliar with such things. Again, I apologise if I was sounding silly or was sounding like a noob.]
You have a very valid point with that, and i totally agree that they most likely won't care nor really be affected by whatever you say. My point is, however, competence builds confidence. And one of the best ways, in my biased opinion, to build competence is to force yourself into a situation you don't necessarily like or aren't used to. In other words: How do you expect to get better at talking to women, without making an effort to do so. Because I will outright tell you it is a skill that you need to practice. Please though, don't get arrested for saying something to a girl lol
Well, I guess I’ve to run away from the scene if she even feels a slightest bit of uncomfortable then.
Don't overthink it. If you just walk by someone and say something like "You're really pretty." The only thing a rational person could do is just say thank you. And you move on with your life, as do they. If your goal is to genuinely try to better yourself and your own confidence, then you will face this head on. And if you ever want advice or genuinely need a second opinion, please feel free to message me.
Doesn’t such a thing count as eve-teasing & harassment? 😱😰
I don't mean to assault them with your eyes. I'm literally saying to just give someone random a compliment you see out on the street one day and keep walking. Don't overthink it. Build a foundation.
I see, but the situation, place, people, & logistics also matter too right. I don’t wanna get punched in the face by her husband or anything. Right?
Obviously use common sense, but don't over think it.
You watch too much of this rizztube and rizzbook shorts.
What’s that, idk what does “rizz” mean.
I’m going to echo the sentiment that even the idea of pickup is misguided. That said the whole “be yourself” is bullshit. I’m a socially awkward dude whose idea of fun is playing chess and watching streamers play yugioh online. For the most part my life is a mess and I’m an emotional rollercoaster. I’m not popular by any means. Yet, despite this I’m literally drowning in pussy. It’s like the one thing I have. Follow these steps and you’ll be as well 1. Be attractive. Don’t be unattractive This doesn’t mean you have to be born attractive. Or that you need to be tall or ripped. If you’re a straight man you can go from a 5 to an 8 by getting a good haircut; throwing out all your graphic tees; wearing well fitted; single colored clothes; taking care of all your hygenie needs (include a skin care routine), cutting your hair, wearing nice shoes and putting on any cologne. I’m taking a shit so I’ve skipped a few details but that’s about it. Do that and you’re suddenly in the top 80% percentile of men. Women are tired of being hit on by dudes who floss twice a week 2. Fix your intentions. In the same way men are just better at hand eye coordination women are just better at reading your intention. It’s a 6th sense. They know what you’re thinking. So if your intention is to fuck but you’re asking her where the nearest Starbucks is she can tell and will think you’re creepy. Your intention should be honest. It should be that you found her attractive so you decided to approach her to find out if she’s a good match. 3. Doesn’t matter you say. It matters how you say it. This is why I think most pickup lines are bs. You can say any goddamn thing. Women will respond once you say it right. Be confident. Talk slowly. Pronounce your words right. Make it easy for her to follow you. 4. Remember that she usually wants you to win. Believe it or not women want love, sex and intimacy and for the most part have no idea how to approach a guy. Once you’re attractive (see step 1) she is actually secretly rooting for you. 5. If she doesn’t want you to score, it’s for a good reason. Sometimes she has a boyfriend, sometimes she doesn’t like black dudes, sometimes you sound like her ex, sometimes she’s going through depression. The point is, if she isn’t immediately interested don’t try to wear her down and persuade her. Move on, you have a billion options. If she rejects you give her a “no prob, take it as a compliment “ and move on with life. 6. Learn how to escalate Shoulders, holding hands, lower back, hand on thigh, kiss, ass grabbing. Go in more or less this order. Listen to how her body responds as you escalate throughout the night. If she tenses up, go down a level. 7. Take the role as the man This doesn’t mean that she’s some submissive child with no agency. It just means that you have to do all the unpleasant shit. Don’t try to split the bill. Pay for it. Open the door for her. Be the one to risk rejection, not her. All the awkward and unpleasant shit is on you bro. 8. Make it a safe space. Don’t go around judging people for being sluts on your date. Or for being too stiff. Don’t try to neg or peacock or any of that weird stuff a lot of dudes come with this Redditor “better than thou” energy. And are surprised when she’s uncomfortable around your judgmental ass. Cut that out. Be chill. That’s about it. Others would say to have a good lifestyle and social proof and sweet lines and cool conversations. And honestly. Nope. All of that presumes that the girl doesn’t want to fuck too. Which she does. Your competition is wearing a fedora and smelly jeans. It’s a lot more about not getting in your own way than driving an expensive car
Yoo! Mr. Hitch, Albert here. Dude! You’ve gone way too deep for me to comprehend… I lost you after the 3rd point. Getting female attention and having a long conversation with them seems like a long shot for me. I be the type of guy who would mess up giving an order at a McD counter if the cashier’s a girl. I be the kinda guy who has difficulty at the eye-contact stage. If I somehow muster the courage to speak, I end up freezing like an antelope in headlights. However, thanks for the advice. I needed that. Not many people give real detailed practical advice.
The last time I spoke to a girl was this morning after tennis. She was on the court next to me and the way it’s set up the benches are all in the same place. I was on Reddit after my game and she sat nearish to me on the benches. I looked at her and asked her what she thinks about trump being arrested. It wasn’t smooth. In fact she was visibly thrown off by this sweaty stranger asking her a question about trump at 7am on a Sunday morning. If I was smooth, I would have brought up something about tennis which is an obvious shared interest and not something decisive like politics. Something that, as it turns out she had no interest or knowledge about. But I’m not smooth. And I don’t try to be. I asked because I was reading a Reddit thread on the out of the loop subreddit and I was currently interested in it. Because I’m interested in it it’s easy to talk about. I told her about the current stormy Daniel situation, completely butchering the facts. We ended up finding common ground about the optics of the situation and whether this might galvanize his base which led to her talking about her job which is basically PR. After like 5 minutes the conversation came to a lull. I think this is the moment that a lot of men fear. I certainly used too. But like, this awkward moment is when you’re supposed to be a man. So I asked her if she was on instagram and we followed each other. I’m probably never going to message her again. But if I wanted to, I’d ask her if she wants to go to the beach and she’d probably say yes. I know she’s a beach girl because nearly all her instagram pictures are her in a bikini on the beach. I’m sharing this because this is kind of how most of these interactions go. There’s no smooth pickup line, we don’t get lost in 3hr long conversations, she isn’t grabbing her belly and dying of laughter. If you can do that AND you don’t talk so damn fast she can’t follow you’re golden. You can muddle your way through it despite feeling anxious because 99% of men would have said nothing to the cute girl who sat next to them.
Yup! But I have a question; why would she agree to go to the beach with an almost stranger? You’ve just had one conversation with her, how can you be so sure of yourself? I mean, looking at her beach pics and then inviting her to the beach?… doesn’t that sound kinda imposing and invasive? idk, I’m not sure if she’d mind that or not? Wouldn’t she get offended or something, and then file a case for harassment or something?😱😬 oh god! idk anything about such things. I’m so insecure that I sometimes feel that my existence itself makes them uncomfortable or something.(Yes! I guess I might have self-esteem issues too) [I’m literally completely unfamiliar about these things and that’s precisely the reason why I’m asking such things here. Sorry, if I come across as some immature noob.😓]
Start approaching… simple as that, watch “the single guy” channel on youtube, tripp advice is also pretty good. You you want to get the mindset it’s not the pill people, watch “einzelganger” alongside the 2 i mentioned (it’s more towards ancient philosophy for the modern world type content)
I made nearly 7-8 approaches a few weeks ago… A friend of mine forced me to make those approaches, he said that he’d puch me real hard if I didn’t make those approaches… Initially in first 2-3 approaches w0men were running away just by looking at me(yup! guess I’m that ugly). Later, somehow with each approach I got better. However, I was rejected by most of them. Few of them got literally uncomfortable because of my existence. [The experience was very overwhelming for my introverted personality, my mind literally switched off after all of that. Also, my self-esteem & ego took a great hit too. Quite the humbling experience I was looking for.]
It’s great that you started approaching already the next step is consistency, several times a week and each week you add to what you did (different conversational techniques, flirting techniques or whatever). Approaching, game or “pickup” is a skill that you have to develop over time. You’re not alone, I was like that when I started out, I was an introvert and I DEFINITELY creeped girls out several times but it’s ok, if they reject you chances are you’re never gonna see them again (this was 10 years ago. I landed on simple pickup so that started me off). You’re doing this for yourself, remember that, and you’re so lucky to have friends encouraging you, when I was doing it I was out there by myself. A 16 year old kid with ADHD and aspergers with no friends out in “the world” (by that it’s different malls around the city. Malls where I’m from are awesome) alone talking to strangers. Yeah, rejections after rejections after rejections but I slowly got better over time because I took action and was consistent. If I can do it then you can do it.
Dude! What about the “my male-ego is hurting” part? And Besides, The I idea that I was forced to approach strangers still haunts me. Moreover, I just literally freeze after the initial few questions. I’m a what you’d call a precise speaker so I give one word answers to their questions, i am well aware that it’s a huge turnoff and it can make things pretty awkward.🙈
Yeah, that’s how you learn to drop it. If you freeze then freeze up and stand there or leave. It’s fine, you can’t expect to be good right away
Wouldn’t the situation get pretty awkward if that happens? The public humiliation for doing such a thing would be too hard to bear. I don’t wanna be “butt of all jokes” or “the clown of the class” all over again. That phase was gone long ago.😬🙈 (p.s: - i know & i have seen people who’re smooth and good since the very beginning.)
Yes, it will feel awkward and so what of it? People don’t give a shit, they just go back to do whatever they were doing. Butt of jokes is a non issue, that’s just their problem and not yours… when you do this consistently you build a thicker skin and it doesn’t bother you anymore and that’s the same for confidence and whatever else. Get after it dude
You really sure about that? Don’t w0men care about “RePuTaTioN” too? Don’t they look for someone whom she could respect or admire or something? idk, i have apprehensions that they might think of me as some clown and dismiss me.🙈 I guess I have to keep at it then. Guess it’s a river which can only be crossed by drowning first.
Don’t worry about that, it’s all in your head. You screw up with one girl the next girl wouldn’t know
Well, I guess there’s only one way to find out.🤷♂️
I like the YouTube channel Casey Zander. Casey will to you to get lean first and get a job first.
Start working out show me your progress pics. We can go on from there.
Lol, I’ve been working out since few months. My arms and legs have a great shape & gained some nice muscle. However, I’m unable to get rid of my big belly. (I don’t have any pics for now)
Alright. Now then, start changing your diet. I want you to start meal prepping meals you find appetizing but healthy. Learn some recipes, it'll be fun.
Yeah sure. What kind of diet am I supposed to follow? (I don’t take any supplements, I need to get the protein for lifting weights through food itself)
Start with a Mediterranean Diet. Once you get some good recipes you like, the swap over to another region.
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Bro…, facts! You be spitting real facts! 🥲😭
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Definitely agree with you bro! I even relate with Gyutaro’s character from the latest demon slayer movie. Also there this concept called “halo effect” in psychology. and then there are things like “pretty privilege” & all
Cap, stop living on social media & go talk to woman in real life I mean ofc look the best you can but do it for you , game stems from YOU! Not women, who are you? The problem is that you guys hate yourselves
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Spoken like a true dweller I wish you the best g💪🏾
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