actually this part strikes me as one of the most believable parts of the whole thing. in the mid to late 90s my brother and his friends were trading cars around like they were pokemon cards.
Yeah, I'm 2 years younger than Adnan. I was the first within my group of friends to have a cell phone.
You have to remember they weren't smart phones. We didn't really have anything to hide on them. They were very easy to share and pass around. Even SMS weren't really a thing back then. They were basically just phones, so depending on the logistics in the group that day, we would pass the phone around.
Also, I didn't have a car, but I'd let my friends borrow my scooter. Wasn't a big deal.
Yea exactly, it would have been more like letting someone borrow your expensive bluetooth speaker now. You’d pause, sure. But it wouldn’t be some big personal risk.
I graduated high school in 2000. I got a cell phone in 1998, when I started driving. Loaning out your phone, especially the day after it was activated, was uncommon. I never did, and I cannot think of an instance when any of my friends did either.
I agree and you certainly didn’t lend your car to a known weed dealer taking it into the city of Baltimore during the “war on drugs” unless you were trying to get into the game…which brings me back to Bilal
If drugs were involved, probably I would, as that is a very transactional culture and relies on a lot of doing favors and other exchanges.
your point is taken though, and I would have to be closer with someone before I would let them borrow both of those things. Yes, i’m thinking of my top five best friends from my 20s and late teens… definitely, if a legit need was present.
I can’t remember from the podcast what Jay said the reason was he gave him the cell phone
On a related note, the biggest problem with the State's case that people don't talk about is the cell site analysis is... I'll be charitable and say it's clearly from the early days of the discipline.
Until DNA comes along Thank God! The stats on the wrongfully convicted in Baltimore when eye witness testimony was your only smoking gun speaks for itself.
I tested cell towers for 12 years, if it was being used it certainly wasn’t reliable as a source, particularly incoming calls. Towers were down all the time & traffic moved.
Agreed. I'm exactly the same age as adnan and co and I totally would have given my phone to a friend. Teenagers do weird shit. And back then, phones were just phones.
Thirding this. Phones in the 90s were phones, their function was to call people. They didn't have all your photos on them. They didn't have all your social media, years worth of daily messages with your SO. You couldn't pull up every website someone has visited or get into their email. There was no such thing as two factor authentication. It didn't have GPS pings being automatically dropped in your location history every five minutes for a decade.
A Nokia brick phone is an impersonal tool you use to place and receive phone calls. A modern smartphone gives you access to someone's entire private life.
🤣 ok tell me you never had to worry about minutes without telling me. You realize that things still cost money? And that lending something out means it could get lost or stolen? These concepts existed in the 90s.
Is this supposed to be a dig lolll
"this will get her, I will respond nonsensically by making a comment about how she had disrespectful friends back in high school to avoid the fact that if someone borrowed a cell phone back then and used it, they'd be using fucking minutes, man all I have is this 'you had disrespectful friends' thing ok yes that will be so good and remind her that I had cool friends in high school....oh those were the days.....high school friends 4ever"
What a weird reply.
Not everybody grew up with the same friend dynamics or house rules you did. Someone borrowing my cell phone and running up a huge bill wasn't a problem I had, nor did the other people you've replied to. My friends understood "Hey, this thing costs 25 cents every minute you talk on it" because we all had home phone services and that's how long distance worked at the time.
If that's unfathomable to you, then you're describing a feature of *your* friends growing up, not ours.
>Not everybody grew up with the same friend dynamics or house rules you did.
Yes exactly thank you for proving my point that when people argue on here that it's perfectly normal for adnan to have given Jay a car and cell phone, and not at all suspicious or tending to prove guilt, due specifically to the fact that THEY would have done the same thing, their personal experience is irrelevant to whether (1) most people and (2) specifically adnan did that very thing. So glad we could walk through this together to come to the same conclusion.
An extremely common behavior shared across large portions of the population is by definition neither suspicious nor inculcatory. You haven't shown that your personal experience is any more representative or authoritative than the multiple people who chime in, every time it's brought up, to say it wasn't unusual in their friend group.
Not sure. I was a year older than Adnan, going to a high school nearby. Not everyone had cars in my high school and most of us had beat up old cars - and we definitey lent them to our friends who didn’t have cars and could us things while we were in class (like 7-11 slurpees,..or weed).
I never drove my friendscars & no one ever drove mine. I caught a ride or I gave people a ride. Damn sure wasn’t letting anyone drive my car into the city or use my phone to call drug dealers
I had the same experience as a teen. My friends and I did this all the time. It was not unusual to see a friend pull up places in another friend’s car. We definitely had to hide it from our parents, though.
Jay testified he regularly borrowed cars from several people and admits he borrowed Adnan’s on multiple occasions.
If you were a teen thinking about the ramifications of insurance, you were probably too responsible for this group.
Adman didn’t mind, they were clearly trying to start a “business”. They just had no idea how entangled they were with the “Criminal element of Baltimore” who was buying Adnan the phones.
They weren’t starting a business with Adnan. No one has ever said Adnan was in business with Jay/Jenn. The closest we get is Jay’s story that Adnan blackmailed Jay with a lot of weed. But even then, Adnan wasn’t a business partner.
I think it’s far more likely Jay just used Adnan’s car and phone when Jenn and Stephanie’s cars were unavailable.
Jenn had to pick her parents up from work in the afternoons.
We know on 1/13 Stephanie had a basketball game. I’ve never been able to find a schedule, but HS sports tend to fall on the same days of the week— which means Stephanie may have also had games/been unavailable to give Jay her car on 1/27 and 2/3, the other Wednesdays Jay is with the phone.
I believe Adnan was in business with Bilal and Jay. Come on Sahm. It’s so obvious Jay and Adnan were trying to set something up & this is why Bilal was buying the phones. That’s why Jay was bragging and also why Jay was petrified of that van.
I mean no one involved in the actual case.
Jay was dealing drugs with Jenn.
Adnan smoked weed and occasionally lent his dealer his car.
Bilal is a violent criminal who may have been up to any number of things. But I think it’s unlikely he was involved with Jay and Adnan dealing drugs.
thats fine but people like Rabia need to stop lying about Adnan being "the golden boy" a "star athlete" a "scholar" and "very mature"
Adnan was a drug using lazy ass punk. Regardless of whether he was a murderer or not.
He was a gifted student in school so he wasnt lazy in that sense but he certainly wasn’t squeaky clean. He coveted money and that greed had him dealing with some shady people like Jay & Bilal.
Adnan wasn’t dealing—
But to be clear, I’m not saying he was a saint. I’m saying the perception was that Adnan was smart, athletic and popular. His teachers and friends liked him and were shocked by his arrest.
Within their community Adnan was seen as accomplished. The community rallied around him because they respected him.
Yes, he was a high school student who smoked pot and had sex.
He also:
- Lettered in multiple sports
- Took AP classes and got good/average grades
- Was the prom king at the magnet prom
He wasn’t a golden child, but he was well respected by his peers, his teachers and coaches.
Even if you or I would view him differently by our standards, I think Rabia’s perception of Adnan gives interesting insight to how his family and friends saw him at the time. They saw him as a smart athlete who was very popular. Not the type of person who they’d expect to commit a murder.
I think her bias blinded her to a lot. In the early years after serial she was always thinking “what looks best for Adnan?”
She argued for awhile that Bilal was the key witness the police had arrested on false charges to pressure him not to testify. Which was always ridiculous, but I think she really bought it for a minute.
From what I understand he didn’t play a single down in football, and since he didn’t like walking apparently, got rides of 75 yds to track practice, wasn’t attending school that last year consistently, and had pretty lousy grades.
Nah not really impressed
LMAO we talking about Baltimore schools here. I lived in Baltimore for 6 years. Baltimore has the worst school district in the entire country. One of the local high schools' "valedictorian" had a 3.1 GPA. LMAO
So yeah color me unimpressed with Syed. He was a loser then and he's a loser now.
I don’t find him particularly impressive.
But the Islamic community did. His coaches, his teachers, his classmates and friends all spoke highly of him.
Comparing him to your high school, your standards and your community doesn’t tell us anything. In context— the people at his schools thought he was smart, athletic and popular.
It’s not just Rabia. We have interviews with a wide variety of people who were shocked by his arrest and who thought highly of Adnan.
Jay testified at trial that he borrowed Adnan’s car again after 1/13. I don’t think he ever says 1/13 is the first time he borrowed the car.
ETA based on cell records it was likely on 1/27 that he borrowed the car again.
But he also didn't say that he'd ever borrowed Adnan's car before the 1/13. That's the important part.
Neither Jay or Adnan said that this was a usual thing they did, or that they'd ever done it before. That he'd give total unsupervised possession of his family car to this friend of a friend acquaintance. He never explained how this arrangement might have worked, or explained he'd have it back by a certain time. Based on what Jay testified, Adnan would always be with him in the car (give him a lift or run an errand together) just like he did when they went to the mall. That's all we know. There had never been a reason for Adnan to lend Jay his car until the 13th. The 13th was something new. Jay knows why he had full possession of the car and cellphone on the 13th and had said why, Adnan can only come up with an illogical excuse.
If you weren't being deceitful, you'd simply say that the first known time that Adnan lent Jay the car was on the 13th, the day of the murder, and Jay testified that he borrowed it on other occasions after the 13th. There's no evidence from either Jay or Adnan that Jay had ever taken possession of the Adnan's car before the 13th.
Not trying to be deceitful— didn’t remember be said it was the first time.
Jay established he regularly borrowed cars from serval people. This was normal for him.
I suspect he borrowed the car on 2 Wednesdays in January and got rides from Adnan on additional days because of Stephanie’s schedule.
This really is all anyone needs to know to conclude Adnan is guilty. He lied to the victim to get a ride he didn't need at the very time she was apparently murdered in her car. He initially admitted this to the police before changing his story two weeks later (while Hae was still just a missing person).
This is too simple. I desperately need to prove that I am smarter than everyone so I can’t simply accept this. The DNA says 4 individuals did this. Because this is a game with limited characters, let’s start with Jay, Bilal, and the streaker as suspects. Wait we need one more, ok how about idk let’s make it a twist and say Debbie.
Also the justification for his lie is complete and verifiable bullshit. There's about an hour between last period and when Hae has to pick up her cousin. That drive is about 11 minutes. Even when accounting for congestion due to everybody trying to leave campus at the same time, this is plenty of time for a drop-off, or other shenanigans in certain parking lots.
He was asking her to drop him at the track field around the other side of the school on her way out, which they did all the time. He would have asked the same thing regardless of whether or not his own car was in the parking lot because how weird would it be for someone to drive their own car a hundred yards across campus to the track field. Since Hae was driving by anyway, it was no problem for her to drop him off at the field on her way by. That’s the ride he was asking for. It had nothing to do with where Adnan’s car was.
But none of that’s material in this case because we know that Adnan didn’t get that ride with Hae because she said she couldn’t give anyone a ride anywhere as she had someplace to be right after school. She drove away from the campus alone. He went to the library to check his email. No ride happened.
It is always weird how Redditors have paragraphs of explanations for why Adnan is suspicious as fuck, but Adnan himself won't even make these claims because of how bugnuts they sound. Your claim is that Adnan didn't actually want a real ride, just a short trip to track. Insane thing to plan six hours ahead of time with a girl you recently broke up with, but let's go with that. But you also think this short ride that entirely on campus definitely could not have happened because Hae had somewhere to be and obviously couldn't give a 1 minute ride?
I’m guessing you’ve done very little research on this case. If you’d been paying attention, you’d know that Hae giving Adnan a quick ride around to the other side of school to drop him off by the track field on her way out to pick up her cousin was something they always did in warmer weather. Since that day was the first warm day on many weeks, it seems perfectly reasonable for him to touch base with her on the ride to make sure they were on the same page about it. After all, they’d remained friends after their breakup so why not?
But Hae said no, she couldn’t give anyone a ride anywhere after school because she had someplace to be right after school. Multiple witnesses saw her leaving the campus alone and in a rush to get somewhere while Adnan went to the library to check his emails.
I’m thinking that if he had planned on getting into Hae’s car with her to murder her, he probably wouldn’t have gone to the library and leisurely chatted with Asia for half an hour, would he? Wouldn’t he have skipped checking his emails so that he could follow Hae to her car and murder her?
Or maybe you, too, believe that Adnan had a time machine that he could use to travel back in time after chatting with Asia to meet Hae in the parking lot 25 before he want to the library and talked with Asia? Clearly, if you’re that desperate to believe Adnan is guilty, why not throw in a time machine, too, right?
The guy gave a sweaty two hour powerpoint presentation accusing multiple government officials of conspiring against him. He probably shouldn't talk, but he talks a lot. Just never gives a real story about what happened that day while Redditors will spin forty different yarns for him.
How do you know he was asking her for a ride to track? Please name your source.
Krista heard him lie about his car being off campus.
Adnan never said he asked for a ride to track. He never even said that it was a possibility.
Adnan said on January 13th that she was supposed to give him a ride but he got delayed and she probably got tired of waiting so left without him.
19 days later, Adnan said he didn't ask Hae for a ride at all because he drives his own car to school.
On Serial, Adnan says he knows he wouldn't have asked her for a ride because she had to pick up her cousin and she had no time to do anymore any favors in between.
Krista had been saying nonstop for 25 years now that Adnan *never* claimed that his car was in the shop. She said it once, just making as assumption, that she later learned was incorrect. But, of course, the guilters don’t want to hear that Krista was wrong and has said so fro 25 years and counting now. They’re just that desperate to believe Adnan is guilty.
All the other conflicting tidbits that you’re fixating on are irrelevant because he didn’t get the ride from Hae. He asked, she said no, and that was the end of it. He went to the library to check his email and she left in a rush without him.
You might to ask yourself why you’re so fixated on irrelevant details while ignoring the big things. Like, for example, Adnan wasn’t with Hae when she disappeared so it couldn’t have been him that killed her.
None of that answers my simple question.
YOU said that Adnan was asking Hae for a ride to track.
Adnan himself never said that. Ever. He never even said it was a possibility.
So why do YOU say that Adnan asked for a ride to track?
Anyone who can google Woodlawn can see the “ride to track” thing is lame and makes zero sense. Anyone who ever ran track would feel ashamed asking for that request. I ran track. My school was very similar distance.
On top of that people want us to believe he requested a ride to track hours and hours earlier while he had a perfectly working vehicle at his disposal? LOL. Uh no.
I’m not the one making the claim that Adnan wanted a ride to the track. He and his friends said it. They did it all the time, probably so they could make out for a few minutes before she dropped him off and went on her way to pick up her cousin. I don’t know, but that *is* what he was asking about. Maybe they were broken up but we’re still friends with benefits. Who knows?
But she still said no and the ride still didn’t happen.
Once again, the ride that didn’t happen means that the request for the ride is irrelevant.
He wouldn’t have been asking for a ride home because Jay was bringing his car back to pick him up after track practice. He wasn’t planning on leaving the campus between school and track practice because he didn’t have his car and what was he going to do for the 45 minutes between the end of school and the beginning of track practice?
Are you suggesting that Adnan asked Hae for “a ride after school”, without clarifying where he wanted to go, and Hae would say yes or no, without having any idea where he wanted her to take him, knowing she had to pick up cousin by 3:00??
Of course not. He didn’t say where he wanted to go because Hae already knew where he wanted to go—around the building to the track on her way off campus. They did it all the time. He didn’t drive his own car over to the track because that *would* have been ridiculous. But if Hae was driving by anyway, why not?
But she said no, that she couldn’t give anyone a ride anywhere because she had someplace to be immediately after school. She was last seen driving away, alone, while Adnan was seen walking toward the library, also alone.
The ride didn’t happen. He didn’t use a time machine to travel back in time to get into her car with her 25 minutes before Asia left the library. He didn’t have a magical flying carpet that he could use to catch up with her. And he would have needed a magical flying carpet because no one knew where Hae was headed. She never told anyone where she was going. So only a magic carpet could have allowed him to find Hae, a half hour after she left campus.
Do you think Adnan had a magic carpet?
So this is just your own fan fiction.
Got it.
You know what Adnan was thinking better than Adnan himself, since he has NEVER said this was even a possibility.
Better yet, you know what Hae was thinking at the time.
Hey, they did this so often that none of their own friends ever said Hae usually gives him a ride to track because Adnan can't walk for 2 minutes. Right?
It happened so often that on Serial Adnan couldn't tell SK that he got those rides from Hae all the time.
Krista testified that Adnan told Hae that he didn't have his car. She did not recant that ever.
Adnan does not deserve you making up fan fiction for him. And more importantly when you write fan fic just say so.
Nah. I don’t write fan fiction. I just listen to the known facts and don’t make up crazy stuff to try to get other people to believe. You only need to make up stuff if you’re trying to make Adnan guilty.
I don’t claim to know what Hae or Adnan were thinking. You said that, not me. I’m not a mind reader and I don’t pretend to be. I can suggest, though, that if Adnan had known, when he was taking to Sarah Koenig, about the thousands of hours and millions of words that would be wasted by people on Reddit arguing about that stupid ride, he might have been more clear about it on Serial.
If Adnan did say he didn’t have his car, it would be because he didn’t—Jay had it. Why is that so difficult for so many guilters to believe? And why do so many people believe that if someone asks a ride from their ex, even if the request was turned down and the ride never happened, it must be proof positive that their true intention was to murder their ex and, therefore, despite that person being nowhere near their ex, they somehow managed to break through the time/space continuum, be in two places at once, fly through the air to some unknown place (wherever Hae was) and strangle her to death, while at the same time being in the library checking his email and chatting with Asia? That is some crazy stuff to believe, isn’t it??
And yet, what he said about his car is proof that he murdered Hae. Really??? He said he didn’t have his car because Jay had it. It’s not complicated. He didn’t say he’d sold his car. He didn’t say it was in the shop. He didn’t say he’d locked himself out of his car and can’t get in it. He didn’t say that a gang of leprechauns car-jacked him and stole his car. He didn’t say it was raptured up to heaven. He said that he didn’t have his car because he didn’t. Jay had it. I thought that was clear, but I guess not.
So is it any clearer now that Adnan didn’t lie about not having his car? I guess if you can think that Adnan could be in two places at once, then you can also believe that his *car* can also be in two places at once, right? Adnan lent his car to Jay, Jay drove off in it, but it was, *at the same time*, in the school parking lot, at Adnan’s beck and call. If you can believe that, then I can see why you seem to be confused about whether or not Adnan lied about if car. He obviously did because it was in two places at the same time, just like Adnan was.
Am I right? Did I figure it out?
You know this case well enough to know that Krista wasn’t really sure what the ride was requested. She postulated as to why, but didn’t actually know and thought that maybe it was because his car was in the shop. She was recalling another time he had asked for a ride; because he did that often. It’s true we don’t know whether the ride request relates to track or anything else. But joint friends noted that that was a regular activity: Hae giving Adnan a ride to track so he didn’t have to walk. Is this true? Who knows? We only have these witness statements after the fact to go on. But if trust Krista, then consider looking at the totality of what she and other witnesses stated.
Like friends and family or your drug dealer, because there’s a huge difference between letting my best friend borrow my car versus giving it to some dude for a whole day who I only know from selling me weed
I don’t believe this story he only knows Jay because of weed. That’s Syed distancing himself. He claims he’s best friends with Stephanie who was very much involved with Jay for awhile at this point. To me that shoots his “Jay who? Who? Jay? Who Jay” nonsense down.
It’s been implied in various discussions here that they weren’t close, only because of weed they hung out and of course Adnans own “who Jay?” BS on the podcast. I’m simply pointing out that’s definitely a misdirection that makes no sense with the friendship circle
>It’s been implied in various discussions here that they weren’t close
But you said
>That’s Syed distancing himself.
>of course Adnans own “who Jay?” BS on the podcast.
You mean this?
>**Adnan Syed**
>
>They said some-something like “we know what you and Jay did” or “we talked to Jay”-- and I'm like “Jay? Jay--” like I had a look of puzzlement on my face – like, like “what? What do you mean? Like what do you mean Jay?”
>
>
>**Sarah Koenig**
>
>Adnan, of course, says Jay's story isn't true, but he says he doesn't know why Jay would lie either. He says when he first heard Ritz and MacGillivary mention Jay's name in connection with his own arrest, he was just confused.
Yeah that’s fine
Can you also see he’s lying his ass off plays dumb and is frankly unbelievable and (whether he directly said it or not) it’s been implied numerous times by people wanting to also distance Jay?
I don't think they were friends. Jay was Adnan's drug dealer and boyfriend to Adnan's female friend. They may have spent more time together than they admit, but I think there was some unspoken rivalry over Stephanie between them.
Jay admitted in court that he used to borrow *other peoples* cars as well, you all are acting like somehow this specific fact is *more* suspicious when clearly it’s *jays* pattern of behavior as well.
Not who you asked but in 1999-2001 I’d regularly lend my car to people whose name I barely knew. Friends of friends kind of thing.
Admittedly my car was the Aussie “first car special” - a 20 year old Ford Laser with one broken window and that you always had to skip 2nd gear on.
I was a teen in the 90s too. I might have trusted 2 people not in my family with my car. But on an average school day, there's no way I'm turning over my keys and brand new phone to the boyfriend of a friend (Stephanie) just so he can buy a present
The gift was irrelevant. [This is why Adnan was loaning his car and phone to Jay week after week.](https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/s/c2H05YjnOq)
And also, while the loans were foolish, plenty of my friends did the exact same shit at that exact same time.
What you would do doesn't matter. If you make an absolute claim like "No one would ever do this" and people respond "I did that all the time," your claim is disproven. To continue to deny that it could happen is to be like a vegan insisting McDonald has to be going out of business because they never buy chicken nuggets and therefore no one would.
Jay admitted in court that he borrowed other people’s cars *all the time* and people are here telling you that they did the same, it’s a weak argument. Out of all of the evidence you could have decided was your smoking gun, you decided to make an Olympic sized jump and say that *this* is what makes him guilty. It’s weak.
I don’t give a shit about the other stuff that Adnan did, nobody was talking about that. I literally said “of all of the evidence” clearly I was only talking about the actual text of the post where literally only this one thing is discussed. Either actually read my comment next time or don’t bother responding.
When you write words on Reddit, most of what you say is literal.
My point was a majority of the evidence aside from jay is circumstantial, and most of it, in isolation, is weak - or as you put it- “Olympic sized.” See, I did read what you wrote, I even quoted it!
And *literally* the post mentioned one singular aspect of the story, so that’s what a referenced. If you feel like you need to be yelling about all of the other evidence, find someone who was talking about that.
I said what I said, clearly you get upset when anyone mentions any single thing that might not support your weird obsession with Adnan being guilty. Too bad. This post was weak, the argument was weak, and you can cope with that.
More than that, They were trying to set up a “business” This explains the were not really friends & rides to the porn store & this is where Bilal buying the phones comes in to the equation.
Bilal was an adult and not Adnans parent. He was the supposed mentor and youth leader. So why would he secretly keep buying Adnan phones? There is more to this story now that we know who Bilal really is.
He only bought one phone for Adnan. There’s rumors they he lent a phone to him before that. I’d say Bilal overstepped his boundaries with this but the reason Adnan got a phone was to call girls unencumbered by family restraints. Now that he was no longer with Hae he wanted to have an easier time dating.
Nothing passes the smell test. His whole story reeks to high heaven of deflection, minimization, gas-lighting, pure unadulterated grade AAA+ horse shit. Sarah Koenig has one helluva bad bullshit detector on her to buy his story hook, line, sinker.
Honestly, she got conned and a lot of other people did as well apparently.
I wasn't convinced of guilt until after listening to a few episodes of Undisclosed but I have since gone back an re-listened and on relisten I just find Adnan to be so unlikeable and his attempts at manipulation are so obvious. But the big thing that "doesn't pass the smell test" for me is his overall lack of curiosity about the case that a)revolved around the violent death of someone he supposedly cared deeply for and b)caused him to be locked up for almost 20 years as an "innocent man." On re-listen it just feels so blatant to me that he isn't asking questions because he knows the answers.
It's a very different experience, re-listening to Serial after ten years more life experience. To me, he no longer sounds like a nice guy utterly bewildered by the catastrophe that has befallen him. Now I notice how *lame* his excuses sound, how *obvious* his explaining-away is.
Koenig asks him why he never tried to page Hae after her disappearance. He bumbles through some nonsense about how he was "right there with" all of Hae's other friends. He specifically uses the word "firsthand." He repeats it, even. He got all his information "firsthand" from Aisha.
No, Adnan. You got your information *secondhand* from Hae's other friends, because that is what the word secondhand fucking means. Are you kidding with this half-assed reframe?
This one word choice is obviously not the smoking gun all by itself. But the podcast is full of little moments like this.
Don didn’t remember either way when asked 15 years after the fact. Don was her boyfriend of 2 weeks.
I don’t even think it’s all that damning that Adnan didn’t try to contact Hae. My point is that I can’t unhear the nonsense excuses, the dishonest framing, the… slipperiness to him.
>Don didn’t remember either way when asked 15 years after the fact.
Young Lee testified to Don not calling. They had to track him down at work to speak to him about Hae’s whereabouts.
His complete lack of empathy stood out to me as well. Not one word (as far as I remember) about how wonderful Hae was and how sad it is that she was taken away from us or something like that. It was all about "nobody can prove that I was there" and other self-centered stuff like "nobody knows the truth but I". Also, he admits that the first time he thought about the impact of Hae's death on her family was during Hae's mother's victim impact statement during sentencing. Really? Followed by the absolute tone-death
> "She was sitting right next to me and it was really sad but I couldn’t help thinking that my mom is going through the exact same thing. She’s going to lose her son forever.".
Well you haven't been strangled to death, buddy. And *this* is his explanation for apologizing as his own final statement,
> "I’m just sorry for all the pain that this has caused everyone."
There's a difference between lack of curiosity and an unwillingness to show that curiosity in a recorder interview.
I don't put much stake in trying to read guilt or innocence from his Serial interviews because it was inherently performative. This doesn't mean that he was lying, but rather whether he were guilty or innocent, he would be trying to respond in a way that was likely to help advance his cause or at least not hurt it. We can't expect people with their freedom on the line to talk with the candor of a confidant.
I need to relisten to it because I remember being really put off by how… “jovial”? He sounded at times. That’s not quite the right word. Basically his kind of boisterous responses to things that came off as a bit extra/unneeded.
I was a teenager in the 90s. This is very much how me and my friends were. I find it very believable. Jay also borrowed many peoples’ cars. And the cell phone would have been left in the glove box beside no phones allowed in school. Plus witnesses from track practice actually made mention of Jay regularly borrowing Adnan’s car.
This is an important point. Adnan was storing the phone in the car, so if Jay borrowed the car, he'd also take possession of the phone as well. Adnan might not have even explicitly told him that he could use it since he would be in no position to stop him for most of the day, although it wouldn't be that unusual for him to say that he could.
Cellphones were basically brand new in 1999. I turned 19 in 1999 and remember not keeping up with it that much since we still had landlines and phones weren’t used for texting at that point. And I definitely let a friend borrow my car more than once. That same year, me and my friend Bobby broke into the Georgia Tech Olympic pool and jumped off the highest level. My point is kids do stupid things.
Keep in mind that cell phones were not allowed in school so Adnan left his cell phone in the glove box in his car during the day. Adnan *didn’t* lend Jay his phone. He lent him his *car* and the cell phone was in it.
And I’m going to assume that you didn’t listen to Serial. Adnan himself told Sarah Koenig that he always left his phone in his car’s glove compartment because cell phones weren’t allowed in school.
This was the first day he had it though. Do you have any evidence that this policy actually existed? or is like how Adnan says he didn't kill Hae and we should just take his word for it.
You’re thinking about that from the perspective of now though.
When I got my first phone in 2000 I often left it home or uncharged for days at a time because so few of my friends had one there was no point. My workmate that lived a few doors down borrowed my car every now and then and I barely knew her.
Nowadays? My phone is with my and charged always. My sister is the only person who I’d ever let drive my car.
If you listen to the court transcripts, Jay said Adnan didn’t give him his phone. Adnan just left it in the car because he couldn’t bring it into the school. Jay had his own phone. As for the car, that one was weird, apparently Jay borrowed everyone’s car. I don’t know if that’s true.
If my GF for an entire year goes missing and I am contacted by her brother AND a Missing Persons Detective, I’m remembering EVERYTHING that I did that day. There is simply no way an innocent person could not.
They had been broken up for almost a month that point, and she was dating someone else. Adcock was a beat cop, not a "Missing Persons Detective." When Adnan was called, she'd been "missing" roughly 3 hours.
This is the problem I’m seeing with this case. People, who are probably intelligent in their real lives suddenly go so far out-of-bounds to try to explain away or deflect what is self-evident and common sense. It doesn’t matter if he was broken up almost a month: he was in a very passionate relationship for almost a year and clearly still cared tremendously about her. And.. even if Adcock was a “beat cop” he was a beat cop investigating reports of a missing person, making him “de facto” a Missing Persons investigator. And my global point that an innocent person would remember this day is unquestionable: Any day that your ex-gfs brother calls you about her being missing is unusual, any day that a cop calls you inquiring about a missing person that you love is remarkable, and any day that the brother and cop calls about a missing person that you love and is never seen or heard from again by you or anyone else is UNFORGETTABLE to an innocent person.
One of the more annoying parts of this case is when people say “it was the 90s!!! This was so common!!!!!!!!!” Get all the way the fuck out of here with that. I’m old af and never once handed out my brick of a cell phone to someone. Back then that shit cost by the MINUTE. Half the time people didn’t even use the phone until nights and weekends when that shit was unlimited. You tryna borrow my cell at noon on a motherfuckin Wednesday?!? And god help you if you hit that little globe button that pretended to connect to the internet (ok this part was like the early 2000s but still).
And borrow a car?! The car his STRICT AS FUCK parents gave him?! To some guy he knows just for weed? So the weed guy can go fuck around town until he needed a ride? At the risk of his again highly strict parents finding out or if he crashes it?!? Why?!?
Just because you have some vague memory of your friends just passing around some shitty cars doesn’t mean jack.
>Just because you have some vague memory of your friends just passing around some shitty cars doesn’t mean jack.
It means exactly as much as your opinion.
When I was in high school, we lent each other our cars all the time within our friend group. Mine wasn’t lent out all that often because it had a manual transmission and very few of my friends could drive a stick-shit car, but it was pretty commonly done between friends.
Plus, don’t forget, Adnan and Jay were pot-smoking buddies. Jay likely needed a car to get the pot. You never know.
This isn’t the biggest smoking gun for me. The “It was just a normal day for me” one was. This was the farthest thing from a normal day for anyone ever.
But it is a big smoking gun. I’m shocked at how many people just write this off as like “teenagers stuff”.
I am Adnan’s age. I never ever loaned my car. It wasn’t even his car, fwiw. It was the family’s. Some kids did sometimes. Sure. But it was pretty freaking unusual. And to someone who wasn’t really your friend? To do something as stupid as going to buy a present? Come on. Let’s be real. It’s not that common. It’s fishy at the very least.
And the phone thing was definitely weirder. It’s not just that he loaned Jay the phone to make a call or two. Of course that happened. Jay was using that phone all day to make calls. At that time almost all phone plans had free nights and weekends. This was neither so those calls were costing money. Whoever was paying for you to use a phone (usually mom and dad for emergencies but of course here it was convicted felon bilal) was not going to be happy if you were running up a phone bill like that. That was extremely unusual and, honestly, stinks to high heaven. There’s no way you would let a random acquaintance get away with something like that. Ever.
Adnan having no memory of travelling across town with Jay to the vicinity of Leakin Park on the day of the murder.
The narrative that Hae was killed while supposedly driving alone in her car to the daycare and that Adnan didn't strangle her to death. This would have happened the same day he arranged a ride from Hae after school (the request was made just after he drove his car to school and while his car was still in the parking lot, and he later lied about even asking Hae). Then he gave his brand new phone he got the day before to his friend, and his car, and then claimed that he went out to catch the ride with the soon to murdered ex-girlfriend but she had already left without him! Shucks!
If only Adnan had caught that ride with Hae, he could have saved her from being murdered. Wait, I forgot, he changed his story to one where he actually didn't ask for a ride and therefore didn't try to catch it...
Pick anything that you wrote in your comment above. Anything at all. Whatever you pick will be not true because none of what you wrote is true. It’s not complicated. Everything. Not true.
I completely believe Adnan is guilty and his entire deal with Jay is suspicious. But I still maintain that it is not weird to leave your phone in the car in 1999. I started driving in 1999 and I literally kept my phone in my car almost all the time. The only reason I even had a phone was of in case of a car emergency. The term “car phone” was synonymous with “cell phone” or “mobile phone” for awhile.
Texting was not a thing. Phones didn’t have Internet connection. All you could do was call. If you were at school, you wouldn’t call your friends because a) they’re also at school and b) you can’t just have a phone conversation in the middle of class without your teacher knowing.
My phone was also Muteb East, so I was never using my phone when I could use a landline instead. In the afternoons and evenings when I wanted to contact someone, it was always through my landline.
I find it perfectly plausible that he would’ve forgotten or that he wouldn’t have cared about the phone. But there are of course dozens of other improbable things that happened that day/the days leading up to the murder.
Jay want a drug dealer. I was in woodlawn with them. If Jay was hustling he would have be strong armed robbed everyday because he was ax fucking cornball.
actually, I find this fairly typical among 20-year-olds and under. probably more than it is among older adults. I was definitely not alone growing up in the Midwest lending my cell phone to my closest friends when they needed additional minutes for important calls for my friends who do not have cell phones.
I borrowed close friends’ vehicles many times and I occasionally lent mine
Mine is, if Adnan did it why would he involve Jay? Why would you tell someone that nobody trusts to keep a secret or tell the truth? If you murder someone you don’t tell anyone if you want to get away with it, least of all Jay
People are so short-sighted... Just because you wouldn't do something doesn't mean someone else wouldn't. People do dumb shit I wouldn't do every single day and it's not "unbelievable."
I used to give not too much weight to that, because (1) Don didn't try to contact Hae either, and (2) different people react differently to events like this.
But the more I read testimonies from his circle of friends (Debbie specifically) and his own statements on Serial, the weirder it gets.
According to Adnan himself on Serial, his first thought was when he got the call from Adcock on the 13th that Hae was going to be in so much trouble. If that's what he was thinking, why not page her to let her know her parents are so worried that the police is looking for her? Maybe she would return his pages/calls, while avoiding others?
After all, the prevailing theory according to Debbie was that Hae was in California.
This is so absolutely true. If only we had proof of all these generous teen car owners who just tossed the keys to random acquaintances! I’ve called BS on this in the past and get called out for being such an uptight stingy person! 😂😂😂 Another reason it wouldn’t happen= insurance. My parent would completely go ballistic if I did that with a car they had to carry insurance on.
I'm the same age as Hae, no one I knew was lending their cars or their cellphones out. Most of us didn't start getting cell phones til 2001-ish, we were still using pagers in '99.
Also the networks & infrastructure were suffeeing growing pains so much that part of what added to the stress of 9/11 is cell networks couldn't handle the call volume and you could call out or receive calls.
"In the 2000 survey, only 28.3 percent of respondents reported that they owned their own cell phone. (An additional 11.1 percent reported that they shared a cell phone with another household member.) By the year 2002, fully one-half of respondents reported owning their own cell phone."
1. Adnan got the phone the day before. At that time many schools didn't permit cell phones in school and very few teens had a phone. So Adnan kept the phone in his glove box and Jay just found it.
2. If Adnan's car was in the parking lot, it would mean he would be less likely to need a ride from Hae. If he got into her car nobody witnessed it. It was unlucky he had lent the car. If he hadn't he could have said 'why would I need a ride, my car is in the parking lot.'
3. Someone at track said it was common for Jay to drop off Adnan at practice driving Adnan's car.
This is a video of Woodlawn High School and Security Square Mall by You Tube star ImVontee, who attended Woodlawn probably in 2012 or so, born in 1994. He visited around the 13:30 mark, but just shows how large an area the high school is, even that infamous front lot. You can see a car parked in the driveway and I'm sure if you drove by you may not see someone catching a ride if you're not paying attention. Hae's tree is probably in the video as he drove by. He mentions the library across the way.
[https://youtu.be/Gs0j1tGKdJA](https://youtu.be/Gs0j1tGKdJA)
Adnan & Jay were clearly trying to set up some type of side hustle like Jays uncles. My thought turns to what grown man (respected youth leader) buys a phone for a teenager who then uses an alias on the account and lets a kid he’s not really friends with use that phone to call drug dealers & allows him to take his car to the city to deal drugs? We now know Bilal was not the squeaky clean “youth leader””informant”/upstanding dentist married to a doctor & his criminal behavior we are aware of now is the elephant in the room for me. Esp when he threatened to make the victim disappear and then she did. Makes me wonder who was really fixated on who. The molestations of boys, sexually assaulting his male dental patients while under nitrous oxide & stealing 5M from Medicaid shows us who exactly who the criminal element of Baltimore really was. Adnan & Jay were in way over their heads with this guy.
If he thought she had ran away to California why did he not attempt to contact her at all? Not even once when they supposedly on very good terms and still close friends.
Personally, I think he got the cellphone to ensure he *wouldn't* be linked to the crime - he murdered Hae, but hey his cellphone was not in said place and hence he didn't do it! A stupid 17 year old who thought he could outsmart the law and still continues to think he can while Hae's family continues to suffer. He just didn't think Jay would go to the cops.
actually this part strikes me as one of the most believable parts of the whole thing. in the mid to late 90s my brother and his friends were trading cars around like they were pokemon cards.
Yeah, I'm 2 years younger than Adnan. I was the first within my group of friends to have a cell phone. You have to remember they weren't smart phones. We didn't really have anything to hide on them. They were very easy to share and pass around. Even SMS weren't really a thing back then. They were basically just phones, so depending on the logistics in the group that day, we would pass the phone around. Also, I didn't have a car, but I'd let my friends borrow my scooter. Wasn't a big deal.
Yea exactly, it would have been more like letting someone borrow your expensive bluetooth speaker now. You’d pause, sure. But it wouldn’t be some big personal risk.
A bluetooth speaker with limited minutes and large monetary penalties for going over those minutes or roaming with it?
Yes. We were teenagers and irresponsible.
I graduated high school in 2000. I got a cell phone in 1998, when I started driving. Loaning out your phone, especially the day after it was activated, was uncommon. I never did, and I cannot think of an instance when any of my friends did either.
Same.
I agree and you certainly didn’t lend your car to a known weed dealer taking it into the city of Baltimore during the “war on drugs” unless you were trying to get into the game…which brings me back to Bilal
I definitely let my close friend use my cell phone on a number of locations
You let your close friend take your car and drive away with your cell phone for the day? Were you closer than Adnan and Jay (Jay Who?) were?
If drugs were involved, probably I would, as that is a very transactional culture and relies on a lot of doing favors and other exchanges. your point is taken though, and I would have to be closer with someone before I would let them borrow both of those things. Yes, i’m thinking of my top five best friends from my 20s and late teens… definitely, if a legit need was present. I can’t remember from the podcast what Jay said the reason was he gave him the cell phone
It depends. Some plans were prepaid so the risk was limited.
On a related note, the biggest problem with the State's case that people don't talk about is the cell site analysis is... I'll be charitable and say it's clearly from the early days of the discipline.
Yeah good thing we relied on the old fashioned witness/accomplice who gave up tons of details only someone involved would know, and lack of alibi then
Until DNA comes along Thank God! The stats on the wrongfully convicted in Baltimore when eye witness testimony was your only smoking gun speaks for itself.
It wasn’t even being used for forensic or legal purposes back then.
Wasn't it? As I recall it was presented in the podcast as used in court. The technology was usable for forensic purposes in 1999.
I tested cell towers for 12 years, if it was being used it certainly wasn’t reliable as a source, particularly incoming calls. Towers were down all the time & traffic moved.
Same, when you’re younger, you’re not really in tuned with insurance and the repercussions of your actions. You’re living in the moment, man!
Agreed. I'm exactly the same age as adnan and co and I totally would have given my phone to a friend. Teenagers do weird shit. And back then, phones were just phones.
Yep, agree. It was a totally different time and I shared my phone and car as needed. We were not as attached to phones like we are now.
Thirding this. Phones in the 90s were phones, their function was to call people. They didn't have all your photos on them. They didn't have all your social media, years worth of daily messages with your SO. You couldn't pull up every website someone has visited or get into their email. There was no such thing as two factor authentication. It didn't have GPS pings being automatically dropped in your location history every five minutes for a decade. A Nokia brick phone is an impersonal tool you use to place and receive phone calls. A modern smartphone gives you access to someone's entire private life.
🤣 ok tell me you never had to worry about minutes without telling me. You realize that things still cost money? And that lending something out means it could get lost or stolen? These concepts existed in the 90s.
Sounds like your friends weren't very respectful of your property. 🤷♂️
Is this supposed to be a dig lolll "this will get her, I will respond nonsensically by making a comment about how she had disrespectful friends back in high school to avoid the fact that if someone borrowed a cell phone back then and used it, they'd be using fucking minutes, man all I have is this 'you had disrespectful friends' thing ok yes that will be so good and remind her that I had cool friends in high school....oh those were the days.....high school friends 4ever"
What a weird reply. Not everybody grew up with the same friend dynamics or house rules you did. Someone borrowing my cell phone and running up a huge bill wasn't a problem I had, nor did the other people you've replied to. My friends understood "Hey, this thing costs 25 cents every minute you talk on it" because we all had home phone services and that's how long distance worked at the time. If that's unfathomable to you, then you're describing a feature of *your* friends growing up, not ours.
>Not everybody grew up with the same friend dynamics or house rules you did. Yes exactly thank you for proving my point that when people argue on here that it's perfectly normal for adnan to have given Jay a car and cell phone, and not at all suspicious or tending to prove guilt, due specifically to the fact that THEY would have done the same thing, their personal experience is irrelevant to whether (1) most people and (2) specifically adnan did that very thing. So glad we could walk through this together to come to the same conclusion.
An extremely common behavior shared across large portions of the population is by definition neither suspicious nor inculcatory. You haven't shown that your personal experience is any more representative or authoritative than the multiple people who chime in, every time it's brought up, to say it wasn't unusual in their friend group.
Did cars also change?!?!
Not sure. I was a year older than Adnan, going to a high school nearby. Not everyone had cars in my high school and most of us had beat up old cars - and we definitey lent them to our friends who didn’t have cars and could us things while we were in class (like 7-11 slurpees,..or weed).
I never drove my friendscars & no one ever drove mine. I caught a ride or I gave people a ride. Damn sure wasn’t letting anyone drive my car into the city or use my phone to call drug dealers
I had the same experience as a teen. My friends and I did this all the time. It was not unusual to see a friend pull up places in another friend’s car. We definitely had to hide it from our parents, though.
I completely agree. My friends let me borrow their vehicle several times and once I got mine, I let some people borrow mine if they needed.
This is one of the dumbest things I've read 😂. Maybe people were dumber in the late 90's. Adnans defense at the time was he barely knew Jay.
I had a friend that did this all the time until some guy he only casually knew crashed his car into a telephone pole while he was in class.
Jay testified he regularly borrowed cars from several people and admits he borrowed Adnan’s on multiple occasions. If you were a teen thinking about the ramifications of insurance, you were probably too responsible for this group.
Adman didn’t mind, they were clearly trying to start a “business”. They just had no idea how entangled they were with the “Criminal element of Baltimore” who was buying Adnan the phones.
They weren’t starting a business with Adnan. No one has ever said Adnan was in business with Jay/Jenn. The closest we get is Jay’s story that Adnan blackmailed Jay with a lot of weed. But even then, Adnan wasn’t a business partner. I think it’s far more likely Jay just used Adnan’s car and phone when Jenn and Stephanie’s cars were unavailable. Jenn had to pick her parents up from work in the afternoons. We know on 1/13 Stephanie had a basketball game. I’ve never been able to find a schedule, but HS sports tend to fall on the same days of the week— which means Stephanie may have also had games/been unavailable to give Jay her car on 1/27 and 2/3, the other Wednesdays Jay is with the phone.
I believe Adnan was in business with Bilal and Jay. Come on Sahm. It’s so obvious Jay and Adnan were trying to set something up & this is why Bilal was buying the phones. That’s why Jay was bragging and also why Jay was petrified of that van.
I think it’s unlikely. 25 years and not a single person has come forward to say Adnan was selling drugs.
He wasnt the one selling the drugs. He was being used as the cover.
exactly
Again, it’s a story no one is telling. Can’t rule it out, but I think it’s unlikely.
It’s a known theory. Their actions indicate they were up to something and Bilal was not the squeaky clean youth leader Adnans parents thought he was
I mean no one involved in the actual case. Jay was dealing drugs with Jenn. Adnan smoked weed and occasionally lent his dealer his car. Bilal is a violent criminal who may have been up to any number of things. But I think it’s unlikely he was involved with Jay and Adnan dealing drugs.
I disagree
thats fine but people like Rabia need to stop lying about Adnan being "the golden boy" a "star athlete" a "scholar" and "very mature" Adnan was a drug using lazy ass punk. Regardless of whether he was a murderer or not.
He was a gifted student in school so he wasnt lazy in that sense but he certainly wasn’t squeaky clean. He coveted money and that greed had him dealing with some shady people like Jay & Bilal.
Adnan wasn’t dealing— But to be clear, I’m not saying he was a saint. I’m saying the perception was that Adnan was smart, athletic and popular. His teachers and friends liked him and were shocked by his arrest.
Within their community Adnan was seen as accomplished. The community rallied around him because they respected him. Yes, he was a high school student who smoked pot and had sex. He also: - Lettered in multiple sports - Took AP classes and got good/average grades - Was the prom king at the magnet prom He wasn’t a golden child, but he was well respected by his peers, his teachers and coaches. Even if you or I would view him differently by our standards, I think Rabia’s perception of Adnan gives interesting insight to how his family and friends saw him at the time. They saw him as a smart athlete who was very popular. Not the type of person who they’d expect to commit a murder.
Exactly … totally expected from her biased point of view. I just dont see how she didn’t see Bilal for what he was.
I think her bias blinded her to a lot. In the early years after serial she was always thinking “what looks best for Adnan?” She argued for awhile that Bilal was the key witness the police had arrested on false charges to pressure him not to testify. Which was always ridiculous, but I think she really bought it for a minute.
Too close to the situation. She knows now.
Bravo
From what I understand he didn’t play a single down in football, and since he didn’t like walking apparently, got rides of 75 yds to track practice, wasn’t attending school that last year consistently, and had pretty lousy grades. Nah not really impressed
LMAO we talking about Baltimore schools here. I lived in Baltimore for 6 years. Baltimore has the worst school district in the entire country. One of the local high schools' "valedictorian" had a 3.1 GPA. LMAO So yeah color me unimpressed with Syed. He was a loser then and he's a loser now.
I don’t find him particularly impressive. But the Islamic community did. His coaches, his teachers, his classmates and friends all spoke highly of him. Comparing him to your high school, your standards and your community doesn’t tell us anything. In context— the people at his schools thought he was smart, athletic and popular. It’s not just Rabia. We have interviews with a wide variety of people who were shocked by his arrest and who thought highly of Adnan.
Sorry but you can be both
What is your source that Jay borrowed Adnan's car on multiple occasions and can you provide it? What did Jay say?
Jay testified at trial that he borrowed Adnan’s car again after 1/13. I don’t think he ever says 1/13 is the first time he borrowed the car. ETA based on cell records it was likely on 1/27 that he borrowed the car again.
But he also didn't say that he'd ever borrowed Adnan's car before the 1/13. That's the important part. Neither Jay or Adnan said that this was a usual thing they did, or that they'd ever done it before. That he'd give total unsupervised possession of his family car to this friend of a friend acquaintance. He never explained how this arrangement might have worked, or explained he'd have it back by a certain time. Based on what Jay testified, Adnan would always be with him in the car (give him a lift or run an errand together) just like he did when they went to the mall. That's all we know. There had never been a reason for Adnan to lend Jay his car until the 13th. The 13th was something new. Jay knows why he had full possession of the car and cellphone on the 13th and had said why, Adnan can only come up with an illogical excuse. If you weren't being deceitful, you'd simply say that the first known time that Adnan lent Jay the car was on the 13th, the day of the murder, and Jay testified that he borrowed it on other occasions after the 13th. There's no evidence from either Jay or Adnan that Jay had ever taken possession of the Adnan's car before the 13th.
Not trying to be deceitful— didn’t remember be said it was the first time. Jay established he regularly borrowed cars from serval people. This was normal for him. I suspect he borrowed the car on 2 Wednesdays in January and got rides from Adnan on additional days because of Stephanie’s schedule.
Way to recall the details I completely forgot this 🫶🏻👍👏👏👏!
My "doesn't pass the smell test moment" is Adnan lying to Hae that morning about needing a ride while his own car is in the school parking lot.
This really is all anyone needs to know to conclude Adnan is guilty. He lied to the victim to get a ride he didn't need at the very time she was apparently murdered in her car. He initially admitted this to the police before changing his story two weeks later (while Hae was still just a missing person).
This is too simple. I desperately need to prove that I am smarter than everyone so I can’t simply accept this. The DNA says 4 individuals did this. Because this is a game with limited characters, let’s start with Jay, Bilal, and the streaker as suspects. Wait we need one more, ok how about idk let’s make it a twist and say Debbie.
If the shoe DNA doesn't fit, you must nolle prosequi. Sorry, it doesn't rhyme.
Also, you can't prove that BPD didn't alter that statement retroactively to frame Adnan. Which means he's innocent!
Also the justification for his lie is complete and verifiable bullshit. There's about an hour between last period and when Hae has to pick up her cousin. That drive is about 11 minutes. Even when accounting for congestion due to everybody trying to leave campus at the same time, this is plenty of time for a drop-off, or other shenanigans in certain parking lots.
Indeed. Adnan has been lying about asking for a ride for over 25 years now. 25 freaking years. There's only one reason why he keeps lying about it.
So you ask her for a ride where others can hear you… and plan to murder her minutes later. Horrible plan.
I'd bet most murders are horribly planned, committed for horrible reasons and by horrible people. In other words Adnan is far from being the first.
He was asking her to drop him at the track field around the other side of the school on her way out, which they did all the time. He would have asked the same thing regardless of whether or not his own car was in the parking lot because how weird would it be for someone to drive their own car a hundred yards across campus to the track field. Since Hae was driving by anyway, it was no problem for her to drop him off at the field on her way by. That’s the ride he was asking for. It had nothing to do with where Adnan’s car was. But none of that’s material in this case because we know that Adnan didn’t get that ride with Hae because she said she couldn’t give anyone a ride anywhere as she had someplace to be right after school. She drove away from the campus alone. He went to the library to check his email. No ride happened.
It is always weird how Redditors have paragraphs of explanations for why Adnan is suspicious as fuck, but Adnan himself won't even make these claims because of how bugnuts they sound. Your claim is that Adnan didn't actually want a real ride, just a short trip to track. Insane thing to plan six hours ahead of time with a girl you recently broke up with, but let's go with that. But you also think this short ride that entirely on campus definitely could not have happened because Hae had somewhere to be and obviously couldn't give a 1 minute ride?
🤣🤣🤣 the best part is how matter of fact it was presented as if this was set in stone
Always… it’s always like that.
I’m guessing you’ve done very little research on this case. If you’d been paying attention, you’d know that Hae giving Adnan a quick ride around to the other side of school to drop him off by the track field on her way out to pick up her cousin was something they always did in warmer weather. Since that day was the first warm day on many weeks, it seems perfectly reasonable for him to touch base with her on the ride to make sure they were on the same page about it. After all, they’d remained friends after their breakup so why not? But Hae said no, she couldn’t give anyone a ride anywhere after school because she had someplace to be right after school. Multiple witnesses saw her leaving the campus alone and in a rush to get somewhere while Adnan went to the library to check his emails. I’m thinking that if he had planned on getting into Hae’s car with her to murder her, he probably wouldn’t have gone to the library and leisurely chatted with Asia for half an hour, would he? Wouldn’t he have skipped checking his emails so that he could follow Hae to her car and murder her? Or maybe you, too, believe that Adnan had a time machine that he could use to travel back in time after chatting with Asia to meet Hae in the parking lot 25 before he want to the library and talked with Asia? Clearly, if you’re that desperate to believe Adnan is guilty, why not throw in a time machine, too, right?
Because his lawyer then Christina Gutierrez and other lawyers he trusts, Rabia, Colin, Susan and whoever his lawyer is today, tell him. DON’T TALK!
The guy gave a sweaty two hour powerpoint presentation accusing multiple government officials of conspiring against him. He probably shouldn't talk, but he talks a lot. Just never gives a real story about what happened that day while Redditors will spin forty different yarns for him.
How do you know he was asking her for a ride to track? Please name your source. Krista heard him lie about his car being off campus. Adnan never said he asked for a ride to track. He never even said that it was a possibility. Adnan said on January 13th that she was supposed to give him a ride but he got delayed and she probably got tired of waiting so left without him. 19 days later, Adnan said he didn't ask Hae for a ride at all because he drives his own car to school. On Serial, Adnan says he knows he wouldn't have asked her for a ride because she had to pick up her cousin and she had no time to do anymore any favors in between.
Krista had been saying nonstop for 25 years now that Adnan *never* claimed that his car was in the shop. She said it once, just making as assumption, that she later learned was incorrect. But, of course, the guilters don’t want to hear that Krista was wrong and has said so fro 25 years and counting now. They’re just that desperate to believe Adnan is guilty. All the other conflicting tidbits that you’re fixating on are irrelevant because he didn’t get the ride from Hae. He asked, she said no, and that was the end of it. He went to the library to check his email and she left in a rush without him. You might to ask yourself why you’re so fixated on irrelevant details while ignoring the big things. Like, for example, Adnan wasn’t with Hae when she disappeared so it couldn’t have been him that killed her.
None of that answers my simple question. YOU said that Adnan was asking Hae for a ride to track. Adnan himself never said that. Ever. He never even said it was a possibility. So why do YOU say that Adnan asked for a ride to track?
Anyone who can google Woodlawn can see the “ride to track” thing is lame and makes zero sense. Anyone who ever ran track would feel ashamed asking for that request. I ran track. My school was very similar distance. On top of that people want us to believe he requested a ride to track hours and hours earlier while he had a perfectly working vehicle at his disposal? LOL. Uh no.
I’m not the one making the claim that Adnan wanted a ride to the track. He and his friends said it. They did it all the time, probably so they could make out for a few minutes before she dropped him off and went on her way to pick up her cousin. I don’t know, but that *is* what he was asking about. Maybe they were broken up but we’re still friends with benefits. Who knows? But she still said no and the ride still didn’t happen.
Once again, the ride that didn’t happen means that the request for the ride is irrelevant. He wouldn’t have been asking for a ride home because Jay was bringing his car back to pick him up after track practice. He wasn’t planning on leaving the campus between school and track practice because he didn’t have his car and what was he going to do for the 45 minutes between the end of school and the beginning of track practice? Are you suggesting that Adnan asked Hae for “a ride after school”, without clarifying where he wanted to go, and Hae would say yes or no, without having any idea where he wanted her to take him, knowing she had to pick up cousin by 3:00?? Of course not. He didn’t say where he wanted to go because Hae already knew where he wanted to go—around the building to the track on her way off campus. They did it all the time. He didn’t drive his own car over to the track because that *would* have been ridiculous. But if Hae was driving by anyway, why not? But she said no, that she couldn’t give anyone a ride anywhere because she had someplace to be immediately after school. She was last seen driving away, alone, while Adnan was seen walking toward the library, also alone. The ride didn’t happen. He didn’t use a time machine to travel back in time to get into her car with her 25 minutes before Asia left the library. He didn’t have a magical flying carpet that he could use to catch up with her. And he would have needed a magical flying carpet because no one knew where Hae was headed. She never told anyone where she was going. So only a magic carpet could have allowed him to find Hae, a half hour after she left campus. Do you think Adnan had a magic carpet?
So this is just your own fan fiction. Got it. You know what Adnan was thinking better than Adnan himself, since he has NEVER said this was even a possibility. Better yet, you know what Hae was thinking at the time. Hey, they did this so often that none of their own friends ever said Hae usually gives him a ride to track because Adnan can't walk for 2 minutes. Right? It happened so often that on Serial Adnan couldn't tell SK that he got those rides from Hae all the time. Krista testified that Adnan told Hae that he didn't have his car. She did not recant that ever. Adnan does not deserve you making up fan fiction for him. And more importantly when you write fan fic just say so.
Nah. I don’t write fan fiction. I just listen to the known facts and don’t make up crazy stuff to try to get other people to believe. You only need to make up stuff if you’re trying to make Adnan guilty. I don’t claim to know what Hae or Adnan were thinking. You said that, not me. I’m not a mind reader and I don’t pretend to be. I can suggest, though, that if Adnan had known, when he was taking to Sarah Koenig, about the thousands of hours and millions of words that would be wasted by people on Reddit arguing about that stupid ride, he might have been more clear about it on Serial. If Adnan did say he didn’t have his car, it would be because he didn’t—Jay had it. Why is that so difficult for so many guilters to believe? And why do so many people believe that if someone asks a ride from their ex, even if the request was turned down and the ride never happened, it must be proof positive that their true intention was to murder their ex and, therefore, despite that person being nowhere near their ex, they somehow managed to break through the time/space continuum, be in two places at once, fly through the air to some unknown place (wherever Hae was) and strangle her to death, while at the same time being in the library checking his email and chatting with Asia? That is some crazy stuff to believe, isn’t it?? And yet, what he said about his car is proof that he murdered Hae. Really??? He said he didn’t have his car because Jay had it. It’s not complicated. He didn’t say he’d sold his car. He didn’t say it was in the shop. He didn’t say he’d locked himself out of his car and can’t get in it. He didn’t say that a gang of leprechauns car-jacked him and stole his car. He didn’t say it was raptured up to heaven. He said that he didn’t have his car because he didn’t. Jay had it. I thought that was clear, but I guess not. So is it any clearer now that Adnan didn’t lie about not having his car? I guess if you can think that Adnan could be in two places at once, then you can also believe that his *car* can also be in two places at once, right? Adnan lent his car to Jay, Jay drove off in it, but it was, *at the same time*, in the school parking lot, at Adnan’s beck and call. If you can believe that, then I can see why you seem to be confused about whether or not Adnan lied about if car. He obviously did because it was in two places at the same time, just like Adnan was. Am I right? Did I figure it out?
You know this case well enough to know that Krista wasn’t really sure what the ride was requested. She postulated as to why, but didn’t actually know and thought that maybe it was because his car was in the shop. She was recalling another time he had asked for a ride; because he did that often. It’s true we don’t know whether the ride request relates to track or anything else. But joint friends noted that that was a regular activity: Hae giving Adnan a ride to track so he didn’t have to walk. Is this true? Who knows? We only have these witness statements after the fact to go on. But if trust Krista, then consider looking at the totality of what she and other witnesses stated.
i was a teenager in the 90s and gave people my car frequently.
Like friends and family or your drug dealer, because there’s a huge difference between letting my best friend borrow my car versus giving it to some dude for a whole day who I only know from selling me weed
I don’t believe this story he only knows Jay because of weed. That’s Syed distancing himself. He claims he’s best friends with Stephanie who was very much involved with Jay for awhile at this point. To me that shoots his “Jay who? Who? Jay? Who Jay” nonsense down.
When did Adnan say he only knew Jay because of weed?
It’s been implied in various discussions here that they weren’t close, only because of weed they hung out and of course Adnans own “who Jay?” BS on the podcast. I’m simply pointing out that’s definitely a misdirection that makes no sense with the friendship circle
>It’s been implied in various discussions here that they weren’t close But you said >That’s Syed distancing himself. >of course Adnans own “who Jay?” BS on the podcast. You mean this? >**Adnan Syed** > >They said some-something like “we know what you and Jay did” or “we talked to Jay”-- and I'm like “Jay? Jay--” like I had a look of puzzlement on my face – like, like “what? What do you mean? Like what do you mean Jay?” > > >**Sarah Koenig** > >Adnan, of course, says Jay's story isn't true, but he says he doesn't know why Jay would lie either. He says when he first heard Ritz and MacGillivary mention Jay's name in connection with his own arrest, he was just confused.
Yes I mean that Dude is the absolute worst at lying
To my original question, would you agree that Adnan never said he only knew Jay because of weed?
Yeah that’s fine Can you also see he’s lying his ass off plays dumb and is frankly unbelievable and (whether he directly said it or not) it’s been implied numerous times by people wanting to also distance Jay?
No.
I don't think they were friends. Jay was Adnan's drug dealer and boyfriend to Adnan's female friend. They may have spent more time together than they admit, but I think there was some unspoken rivalry over Stephanie between them.
I never thought of it this way, but you’re right. AS is totally that guy to be talking to Stephanie in detail about her boyfriend. Yea right Jay who.
Jay admitted in court that he used to borrow *other peoples* cars as well, you all are acting like somehow this specific fact is *more* suspicious when clearly it’s *jays* pattern of behavior as well.
acquaintance level people.
Not who you asked but in 1999-2001 I’d regularly lend my car to people whose name I barely knew. Friends of friends kind of thing. Admittedly my car was the Aussie “first car special” - a 20 year old Ford Laser with one broken window and that you always had to skip 2nd gear on.
I went on vacation and gave my drug dealer my car for a week. I didn't own a cell phone at the time. I'm not being contrary, it actually happened.
I was a teen in the 90s too. I might have trusted 2 people not in my family with my car. But on an average school day, there's no way I'm turning over my keys and brand new phone to the boyfriend of a friend (Stephanie) just so he can buy a present
The gift was irrelevant. [This is why Adnan was loaning his car and phone to Jay week after week.](https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/s/c2H05YjnOq) And also, while the loans were foolish, plenty of my friends did the exact same shit at that exact same time.
What you would do doesn't matter. If you make an absolute claim like "No one would ever do this" and people respond "I did that all the time," your claim is disproven. To continue to deny that it could happen is to be like a vegan insisting McDonald has to be going out of business because they never buy chicken nuggets and therefore no one would.
Jay admitted in court that he borrowed other people’s cars *all the time* and people are here telling you that they did the same, it’s a weak argument. Out of all of the evidence you could have decided was your smoking gun, you decided to make an Olympic sized jump and say that *this* is what makes him guilty. It’s weak.
It might be weak, but with all the other strange stuff AS did that day OP’s jump isn’t that “Olympic sized.”
I don’t give a shit about the other stuff that Adnan did, nobody was talking about that. I literally said “of all of the evidence” clearly I was only talking about the actual text of the post where literally only this one thing is discussed. Either actually read my comment next time or don’t bother responding.
When you write words on Reddit, most of what you say is literal. My point was a majority of the evidence aside from jay is circumstantial, and most of it, in isolation, is weak - or as you put it- “Olympic sized.” See, I did read what you wrote, I even quoted it!
And *literally* the post mentioned one singular aspect of the story, so that’s what a referenced. If you feel like you need to be yelling about all of the other evidence, find someone who was talking about that. I said what I said, clearly you get upset when anyone mentions any single thing that might not support your weird obsession with Adnan being guilty. Too bad. This post was weak, the argument was weak, and you can cope with that.
It was so he could buy weed for Adnan
More than that, They were trying to set up a “business” This explains the were not really friends & rides to the porn store & this is where Bilal buying the phones comes in to the equation.
Bilal had to buy the phone because 17 year olds couldn’t get one without their parents
Bilal was an adult and not Adnans parent. He was the supposed mentor and youth leader. So why would he secretly keep buying Adnan phones? There is more to this story now that we know who Bilal really is.
He only bought one phone for Adnan. There’s rumors they he lent a phone to him before that. I’d say Bilal overstepped his boundaries with this but the reason Adnan got a phone was to call girls unencumbered by family restraints. Now that he was no longer with Hae he wanted to have an easier time dating.
Bilal is child molester that drugged and raped his male dental patients. He had a motive Alright and it wasn’t so Adnan could call Hae. Come on 🙄
Sure but Adnan didn’t know those things. He wanted the phone for his reasons
We don’t know what adnan knows but I do know he knew Bilal was no upstanding youth leader
That may have been Adnans reason for wanting the phone but not Bilals reason for giving it
Correct
Then he should say so.
When?
Nothing passes the smell test. His whole story reeks to high heaven of deflection, minimization, gas-lighting, pure unadulterated grade AAA+ horse shit. Sarah Koenig has one helluva bad bullshit detector on her to buy his story hook, line, sinker. Honestly, she got conned and a lot of other people did as well apparently.
Meh. There are things that don’t pass the smell test but this ain’t one of them. Teens, man.
I wasn't convinced of guilt until after listening to a few episodes of Undisclosed but I have since gone back an re-listened and on relisten I just find Adnan to be so unlikeable and his attempts at manipulation are so obvious. But the big thing that "doesn't pass the smell test" for me is his overall lack of curiosity about the case that a)revolved around the violent death of someone he supposedly cared deeply for and b)caused him to be locked up for almost 20 years as an "innocent man." On re-listen it just feels so blatant to me that he isn't asking questions because he knows the answers.
It's a very different experience, re-listening to Serial after ten years more life experience. To me, he no longer sounds like a nice guy utterly bewildered by the catastrophe that has befallen him. Now I notice how *lame* his excuses sound, how *obvious* his explaining-away is. Koenig asks him why he never tried to page Hae after her disappearance. He bumbles through some nonsense about how he was "right there with" all of Hae's other friends. He specifically uses the word "firsthand." He repeats it, even. He got all his information "firsthand" from Aisha. No, Adnan. You got your information *secondhand* from Hae's other friends, because that is what the word secondhand fucking means. Are you kidding with this half-assed reframe? This one word choice is obviously not the smoking gun all by itself. But the podcast is full of little moments like this.
He didn’t page her but neither did her current boyfriend at the time Don.
Don didn’t remember either way when asked 15 years after the fact. Don was her boyfriend of 2 weeks. I don’t even think it’s all that damning that Adnan didn’t try to contact Hae. My point is that I can’t unhear the nonsense excuses, the dishonest framing, the… slipperiness to him.
>Don didn’t remember either way when asked 15 years after the fact. Young Lee testified to Don not calling. They had to track him down at work to speak to him about Hae’s whereabouts.
His complete lack of empathy stood out to me as well. Not one word (as far as I remember) about how wonderful Hae was and how sad it is that she was taken away from us or something like that. It was all about "nobody can prove that I was there" and other self-centered stuff like "nobody knows the truth but I". Also, he admits that the first time he thought about the impact of Hae's death on her family was during Hae's mother's victim impact statement during sentencing. Really? Followed by the absolute tone-death > "She was sitting right next to me and it was really sad but I couldn’t help thinking that my mom is going through the exact same thing. She’s going to lose her son forever.". Well you haven't been strangled to death, buddy. And *this* is his explanation for apologizing as his own final statement, > "I’m just sorry for all the pain that this has caused everyone."
During his disaster of a press conference he only referred to Hae as “my friend”. I thought that said a lot.
There's a difference between lack of curiosity and an unwillingness to show that curiosity in a recorder interview. I don't put much stake in trying to read guilt or innocence from his Serial interviews because it was inherently performative. This doesn't mean that he was lying, but rather whether he were guilty or innocent, he would be trying to respond in a way that was likely to help advance his cause or at least not hurt it. We can't expect people with their freedom on the line to talk with the candor of a confidant.
I need to relisten to it because I remember being really put off by how… “jovial”? He sounded at times. That’s not quite the right word. Basically his kind of boisterous responses to things that came off as a bit extra/unneeded.
We barely used our phones then. They were mostly for phone calls and it wasn’t as scary to hand it over because pay phones were everywhere.
I was a teenager in the 90s. This is very much how me and my friends were. I find it very believable. Jay also borrowed many peoples’ cars. And the cell phone would have been left in the glove box beside no phones allowed in school. Plus witnesses from track practice actually made mention of Jay regularly borrowing Adnan’s car.
The phone was in the car.
This is an important point. Adnan was storing the phone in the car, so if Jay borrowed the car, he'd also take possession of the phone as well. Adnan might not have even explicitly told him that he could use it since he would be in no position to stop him for most of the day, although it wouldn't be that unusual for him to say that he could.
Changing the ride request story before her body was found. I know it’s tired & has been discussed to death but it was my “oh, *come on*” moment.
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He did give the phone to Jay. He lent Jay his car and the phone was in the glovebox because phones weren’t allowed in school.
Cellphones were basically brand new in 1999. I turned 19 in 1999 and remember not keeping up with it that much since we still had landlines and phones weren’t used for texting at that point. And I definitely let a friend borrow my car more than once. That same year, me and my friend Bobby broke into the Georgia Tech Olympic pool and jumped off the highest level. My point is kids do stupid things.
Keep in mind that cell phones were not allowed in school so Adnan left his cell phone in the glove box in his car during the day. Adnan *didn’t* lend Jay his phone. He lent him his *car* and the cell phone was in it.
Remember, this was 1999, not 2019. Got a source on that policy? Otherwise I'm going to assume you're making it up.
And I’m going to assume that you didn’t listen to Serial. Adnan himself told Sarah Koenig that he always left his phone in his car’s glove compartment because cell phones weren’t allowed in school.
This was the first day he had it though. Do you have any evidence that this policy actually existed? or is like how Adnan says he didn't kill Hae and we should just take his word for it.
You’re thinking about that from the perspective of now though. When I got my first phone in 2000 I often left it home or uncharged for days at a time because so few of my friends had one there was no point. My workmate that lived a few doors down borrowed my car every now and then and I barely knew her. Nowadays? My phone is with my and charged always. My sister is the only person who I’d ever let drive my car.
If you listen to the court transcripts, Jay said Adnan didn’t give him his phone. Adnan just left it in the car because he couldn’t bring it into the school. Jay had his own phone. As for the car, that one was weird, apparently Jay borrowed everyone’s car. I don’t know if that’s true.
Jay said that Adnan gave him his phone so that Adnan could communicate with him. (In order to facilitate the murder of Hae Min Lee)
What you (or anyone else) would or wouldn't do with your car or cellphone is not evidence for or against Adnan.
If my GF for an entire year goes missing and I am contacted by her brother AND a Missing Persons Detective, I’m remembering EVERYTHING that I did that day. There is simply no way an innocent person could not.
They had been broken up for almost a month that point, and she was dating someone else. Adcock was a beat cop, not a "Missing Persons Detective." When Adnan was called, she'd been "missing" roughly 3 hours.
This is the problem I’m seeing with this case. People, who are probably intelligent in their real lives suddenly go so far out-of-bounds to try to explain away or deflect what is self-evident and common sense. It doesn’t matter if he was broken up almost a month: he was in a very passionate relationship for almost a year and clearly still cared tremendously about her. And.. even if Adcock was a “beat cop” he was a beat cop investigating reports of a missing person, making him “de facto” a Missing Persons investigator. And my global point that an innocent person would remember this day is unquestionable: Any day that your ex-gfs brother calls you about her being missing is unusual, any day that a cop calls you inquiring about a missing person that you love is remarkable, and any day that the brother and cop calls about a missing person that you love and is never seen or heard from again by you or anyone else is UNFORGETTABLE to an innocent person.
Your opinions are noted.
One of the more annoying parts of this case is when people say “it was the 90s!!! This was so common!!!!!!!!!” Get all the way the fuck out of here with that. I’m old af and never once handed out my brick of a cell phone to someone. Back then that shit cost by the MINUTE. Half the time people didn’t even use the phone until nights and weekends when that shit was unlimited. You tryna borrow my cell at noon on a motherfuckin Wednesday?!? And god help you if you hit that little globe button that pretended to connect to the internet (ok this part was like the early 2000s but still). And borrow a car?! The car his STRICT AS FUCK parents gave him?! To some guy he knows just for weed? So the weed guy can go fuck around town until he needed a ride? At the risk of his again highly strict parents finding out or if he crashes it?!? Why?!? Just because you have some vague memory of your friends just passing around some shitty cars doesn’t mean jack.
>Just because you have some vague memory of your friends just passing around some shitty cars doesn’t mean jack. It means exactly as much as your opinion.
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>Good lord is there a gas leak in this sub Trying to decipher this comment certainly left me feeling ill, sweetie.
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Calm down there little buddy
lolllllllll
When I was in high school, we lent each other our cars all the time within our friend group. Mine wasn’t lent out all that often because it had a manual transmission and very few of my friends could drive a stick-shit car, but it was pretty commonly done between friends. Plus, don’t forget, Adnan and Jay were pot-smoking buddies. Jay likely needed a car to get the pot. You never know.
This isn’t the biggest smoking gun for me. The “It was just a normal day for me” one was. This was the farthest thing from a normal day for anyone ever. But it is a big smoking gun. I’m shocked at how many people just write this off as like “teenagers stuff”. I am Adnan’s age. I never ever loaned my car. It wasn’t even his car, fwiw. It was the family’s. Some kids did sometimes. Sure. But it was pretty freaking unusual. And to someone who wasn’t really your friend? To do something as stupid as going to buy a present? Come on. Let’s be real. It’s not that common. It’s fishy at the very least. And the phone thing was definitely weirder. It’s not just that he loaned Jay the phone to make a call or two. Of course that happened. Jay was using that phone all day to make calls. At that time almost all phone plans had free nights and weekends. This was neither so those calls were costing money. Whoever was paying for you to use a phone (usually mom and dad for emergencies but of course here it was convicted felon bilal) was not going to be happy if you were running up a phone bill like that. That was extremely unusual and, honestly, stinks to high heaven. There’s no way you would let a random acquaintance get away with something like that. Ever.
Adnan having no memory of travelling across town with Jay to the vicinity of Leakin Park on the day of the murder. The narrative that Hae was killed while supposedly driving alone in her car to the daycare and that Adnan didn't strangle her to death. This would have happened the same day he arranged a ride from Hae after school (the request was made just after he drove his car to school and while his car was still in the parking lot, and he later lied about even asking Hae). Then he gave his brand new phone he got the day before to his friend, and his car, and then claimed that he went out to catch the ride with the soon to murdered ex-girlfriend but she had already left without him! Shucks! If only Adnan had caught that ride with Hae, he could have saved her from being murdered. Wait, I forgot, he changed his story to one where he actually didn't ask for a ride and therefore didn't try to catch it...
None of that is true. ☹️
Sorry to break it to you, but it's all true.
No. Really. None of that is even a little bit true. Why do you think it is?
You're claiming it's not true. Which part isn't true?
Pick anything that you wrote in your comment above. Anything at all. Whatever you pick will be not true because none of what you wrote is true. It’s not complicated. Everything. Not true.
I completely believe Adnan is guilty and his entire deal with Jay is suspicious. But I still maintain that it is not weird to leave your phone in the car in 1999. I started driving in 1999 and I literally kept my phone in my car almost all the time. The only reason I even had a phone was of in case of a car emergency. The term “car phone” was synonymous with “cell phone” or “mobile phone” for awhile. Texting was not a thing. Phones didn’t have Internet connection. All you could do was call. If you were at school, you wouldn’t call your friends because a) they’re also at school and b) you can’t just have a phone conversation in the middle of class without your teacher knowing. My phone was also Muteb East, so I was never using my phone when I could use a landline instead. In the afternoons and evenings when I wanted to contact someone, it was always through my landline. I find it perfectly plausible that he would’ve forgotten or that he wouldn’t have cared about the phone. But there are of course dozens of other improbable things that happened that day/the days leading up to the murder.
Jay want a drug dealer. I was in woodlawn with them. If Jay was hustling he would have be strong armed robbed everyday because he was ax fucking cornball.
actually, I find this fairly typical among 20-year-olds and under. probably more than it is among older adults. I was definitely not alone growing up in the Midwest lending my cell phone to my closest friends when they needed additional minutes for important calls for my friends who do not have cell phones. I borrowed close friends’ vehicles many times and I occasionally lent mine
Mine is, if Adnan did it why would he involve Jay? Why would you tell someone that nobody trusts to keep a secret or tell the truth? If you murder someone you don’t tell anyone if you want to get away with it, least of all Jay
People are so short-sighted... Just because you wouldn't do something doesn't mean someone else wouldn't. People do dumb shit I wouldn't do every single day and it's not "unbelievable."
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I used to give not too much weight to that, because (1) Don didn't try to contact Hae either, and (2) different people react differently to events like this. But the more I read testimonies from his circle of friends (Debbie specifically) and his own statements on Serial, the weirder it gets. According to Adnan himself on Serial, his first thought was when he got the call from Adcock on the 13th that Hae was going to be in so much trouble. If that's what he was thinking, why not page her to let her know her parents are so worried that the police is looking for her? Maybe she would return his pages/calls, while avoiding others? After all, the prevailing theory according to Debbie was that Hae was in California.
Neither did Don. Did you conclude from that that they both killed her? Together maybe?
Can you show me the phone records showing Don did not call Hae?
This is so absolutely true. If only we had proof of all these generous teen car owners who just tossed the keys to random acquaintances! I’ve called BS on this in the past and get called out for being such an uptight stingy person! 😂😂😂 Another reason it wouldn’t happen= insurance. My parent would completely go ballistic if I did that with a car they had to carry insurance on.
Well it’s an undeniable fact that your boy Jay admitted in court that he frequently borrows other people’s cars as well, not just adnans.
I'm the same age as Hae, no one I knew was lending their cars or their cellphones out. Most of us didn't start getting cell phones til 2001-ish, we were still using pagers in '99. Also the networks & infrastructure were suffeeing growing pains so much that part of what added to the stress of 9/11 is cell networks couldn't handle the call volume and you could call out or receive calls. "In the 2000 survey, only 28.3 percent of respondents reported that they owned their own cell phone. (An additional 11.1 percent reported that they shared a cell phone with another household member.) By the year 2002, fully one-half of respondents reported owning their own cell phone."
1. Adnan got the phone the day before. At that time many schools didn't permit cell phones in school and very few teens had a phone. So Adnan kept the phone in his glove box and Jay just found it. 2. If Adnan's car was in the parking lot, it would mean he would be less likely to need a ride from Hae. If he got into her car nobody witnessed it. It was unlucky he had lent the car. If he hadn't he could have said 'why would I need a ride, my car is in the parking lot.' 3. Someone at track said it was common for Jay to drop off Adnan at practice driving Adnan's car.
This is a video of Woodlawn High School and Security Square Mall by You Tube star ImVontee, who attended Woodlawn probably in 2012 or so, born in 1994. He visited around the 13:30 mark, but just shows how large an area the high school is, even that infamous front lot. You can see a car parked in the driveway and I'm sure if you drove by you may not see someone catching a ride if you're not paying attention. Hae's tree is probably in the video as he drove by. He mentions the library across the way. [https://youtu.be/Gs0j1tGKdJA](https://youtu.be/Gs0j1tGKdJA)
Adnan & Jay were clearly trying to set up some type of side hustle like Jays uncles. My thought turns to what grown man (respected youth leader) buys a phone for a teenager who then uses an alias on the account and lets a kid he’s not really friends with use that phone to call drug dealers & allows him to take his car to the city to deal drugs? We now know Bilal was not the squeaky clean “youth leader””informant”/upstanding dentist married to a doctor & his criminal behavior we are aware of now is the elephant in the room for me. Esp when he threatened to make the victim disappear and then she did. Makes me wonder who was really fixated on who. The molestations of boys, sexually assaulting his male dental patients while under nitrous oxide & stealing 5M from Medicaid shows us who exactly who the criminal element of Baltimore really was. Adnan & Jay were in way over their heads with this guy.
I wouldn’t let anyone drive my car at that time.
I lent my car out often to people I didn’t know. I was stupid.
He didn’t loan the phone. He left it in the car. Why do we keep rehashing this.
If he thought she had ran away to California why did he not attempt to contact her at all? Not even once when they supposedly on very good terms and still close friends.
Do you wonder why Don didn't either? Asking for a friend.
No, all teenagers do NOT share their car and phone like it's nothing. Yes there are lots of stupid/irresponsible teens that do this.
Personally, I think he got the cellphone to ensure he *wouldn't* be linked to the crime - he murdered Hae, but hey his cellphone was not in said place and hence he didn't do it! A stupid 17 year old who thought he could outsmart the law and still continues to think he can while Hae's family continues to suffer. He just didn't think Jay would go to the cops.
He was released so there must not have been enough proof that he was guilty.
His conviction was vacated on other grounds.