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the financial disparity between Europe and SA is insane, it’s something everyone talks about but I honestly don’t know how FIFA/Conmebol/UEFA would fix this. feels like it will only get worse as nobody is trying to change it.
yes the economies play the part, specially when governments embrace foreign states buying clubs and having a say in their respective sporting entities. obviously billionaires, investment groups and others interested will opt for the English league.
if a billionaire wanted to buy Benfica then I highly doubt our sócios would accept, and any of them is free to present an offer. clubs and their fans have responsibility.
Those states took over the clubs in England for a reasons it was already the biggest league and it spoke lake the biggest impact. I’d place some of the reason it was already the biggest league down to economics and things outside of football.
as I said, it does help that political leaders and sporting authorities encourage it and the fans also embrace it. let’s not act like the government wasn’t pushing for the Saudi PIF to buy Newcastle.
Germany has the best economy Europe and you can see their fans constantly speaking against those situations. it isn’t due to exclusively economy or marketing, there needs to be someone to allow that madness and we both now it in England it’s easily accepted.
They encouraged the Newcastle one for sure the others not really, Germany yes the fans oppose it much more. I just said it’s a factor, France encouraged the PSG takeover and there’s not been a lot since then in the country for example.
I mean your league definitely benefits from exploiting south American talent. Your club, porto and sporting lisbon dominate your country's football financially. And is corrupt as fuck.
I don't think you should be moralizing when you have such a corrupt league with thugs literally attacking people.
you’re assuming I like the corruption that happens in my club ffs. I don’t my guy lmao. and I would honestly like you to elaborate how the Portuguese league is more corrupt than the Prem who is known to embrace blood money.
I would rather not having that benefit of exploiting South America and keep our local players like we used to but unfortunately definitely not corrupt leagues like the Prem allowed clubs to have financial doping and buy whatever they want. and we do not exploit not even a third of what you do.
if you got offended I’m sorry, but your fanbase is part of the problem as they went on to celebrate being bought by a literal state.
>Those states took over the clubs in England for a reasons it was already the biggest league
No it's because England always openly encourages dirty money to be invested in their economy and that goes far beyond football. Actually, this trend moving into football is just a symptom of the wider climate
London is the money laundering capital of the world for a reason, many of the most powerful organised crime syndicates in Europe have long washed their money there because they know the authorities will look the other way
Most countries are like that, France encouraged the takeover of PSG in a similar way for example, none of these countries are super moral and gonna not have relations with these type of people or countries if it benefits them.
Chelsea was the first modern incarnation of this. At the time you could argue the EPL may've been the biggest but not nearly as clear by now. Allowing Chelsea to happen opened the floodgates.
Italian clubs did this for a decade before Chelsea. Not just the traditional big ones either (though they were also backed by non-footballing monies), who were Parma in the 70s???
This is true but it was again choose because the prem was already at that level and on the way to being what it is. Now I’d agree that it probably doesn’t get to where it is now if Chelsea don’t emerge but I also think when Liverpool eventually got a title which happens sooner if Chelsea don’t happen it probably happens anyway, them winning the CL in that fashion in 2005 probably did a lot too.
I think it was a mistake though, Roman was on the line terrible human being but it is still one man at least, Newcastle and City was just flat out not excusable and ridiculous.
No, it's down to Europe not having a hard cap on the number of foreign players they can have anymore so now they just gobble up any half decent player that appears.
True, though the middle and the bottom seems to be quite close to one another, it's 7-8x with teams around 20th.
Honestly, it doesn't really matter since PL player values are inflated to no end and you can't compare teams in different leagues. I mean, Palace has a squad value over 4 times of Boca's and somehow I don't think our squad is better or should be worth more overall...
Your squad is better, although 4 times more is too much.
Argentinian values are fucked too, because a player playing for River/Boca has extra value simply due to that, so there's a BoVer tax similar to how there's a PL tax.
those are mostly English fans whose clubs are on financial doping from investment groups and actual states. UEFA is to blame for allowing abominations like the current CWC champions for example and this tournament will surely become a glorified friendly for Europeans because of those bad decisions.
It's obviously subjective but the level of CL and Europe's top leagues is above anything else on the world. There is more than just money involved when young players move from SA into European clubs (we can argue if that was always the case), while with Saudi investment that is clearly not the case, the game is still levels below.
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It also makes me laugh when fans of comparatively rich clubs in South America complain about the economic disparity between European clubs and South American clubs.
My point is wealth disparities exists everywhere in football, also in South America (I don't know why you keep talking about Brazil), so when South Americans complain about European money stealing their players, I can't help but laugh.
It's like when the midtable Premier League sides complain about the top6 sides buying their best players each year, but they do the exact same thing, just that they're buying from relegation candidates, or from the lower leagues.
> Just check how many different teams have won the league and compare it to basically any country in Europe where the same 2-3 teams win it every year.
Since 2015, you've had three different winners... The premier league has had four in that same time period.
The only thing they could *try* to do at this point is for the UE to revert the case of Bosman, but that wouldn't solve anything since today clubs such as Real Madrid could already buy the players and then make them habe double nationality later on to free foreign spots, also I don't see UEFA doing anything about this since that would hit the Champions League as well.
Or the easiest option at the moment: SA clubs get bought by people with infinity money so they can keep their best players.
they can’t even try to revert it. The EU would dissolve UEFA and every FA before that gets overturned.
overturning it literally goes against everything the EU employment and freedom of movement laws stand for
EU labour legislation is far more important and wide reaching than just football matters. The Bosman ruling was a landmark legal case which had ramifications well beyond football and sports.
>the UE to revert the case of Bosman
That's never going to happen, and there is no justification for that.
Wanting to get transfer fees for a player even after the contract is over is against employment laws, plain and simple.
Disallowing freedom of movement within the EU by limiting player spots for EU players goes against EU core principles.
When it comes to players coming from SA, they aren't directly affected by that decision anyway.
1. What has that to do with Bosman (the topic of this part of the discussion)?
2. I very much doubt that Uruguay has a GDP in the range of a few 100 mios
3. What should happen? What's your suggestion?
The discussion is about the gap between Europeans clubs (some of them) and the rest of the world.
I'm not sure what is the solution, maybe the American way to define a roof of expenses for season or something like that.
Is just dont seems fair that a handful os clubs to receive a shitload of oil money and dominate the sport.
But it's not only oil money. Even without that you'll have a gap between those clubs.
According to a quick Google search, Fluminense pays salaries of around 20 Mio Euros per year. Most teams in the top European leagues pay more than that.
Barcelona pays 10 times that and Bayern 13 times. Dortmund 7 times that. City is around the region of Bayern. Copenhagen is somewhat comparable to Fluminense.
The gap is an economical one and not only "oil money".
The financial disparity have been there decades ago, but the most influential factor was the number of non-EU players in European teams.
In the 80's players like Zico and Maradona went to teams like Udinese and Napoli because foreign player rules were stricter before Bosman ruling. So South American teams could still retain a lot of their top talent because there were no spots available for those players in Europe.
Even in 2000, Corinthians' team who won innaugural Club World Cup had 5 players who were champions for Brazil national team in 2002 World Cup roster (Dida, Vampeta, Ricardinho, Edilson, Luizão), and Vasco da Gama had a stacked team too ([both teams placed first in their groups, eliminating Real Madrid and United](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_FIFA_Club_World_Championship)).
In the end, those are mainly economic differences.
Even without the premier league or specifically oil money you have huge discrepancies. Unless other continents tie down their talents, that gap won't close.
They won't.
Both FIFA and Conmebol are only interested on how to profit off of stuff, they wouldn't even have an idea on how to change things. UEFA would probably prefer to pull out, the CWC's basically pointless these days.
People are critical of it for valid reasons but the new Club World Cup could genuinely be a way to restructure the club game a little. It should bring more money into other confederations.
It’s more of a ceremonial thing. I knew Flu was gonna get smoked, I was just happy to be watching this game and seeing some of our guys styling on some of the best in the world
That's the same argument people made about the UEFA club competition in Europe. It's mostly the same winners nowadays but small clubs(or better term would be less financially capable clubs) and their fans can get to watch those super teams play in their ground.
You’re right. Classy guys like Jack Grealish and fair skinned Bernardo Silva would never unlike that thug Jhon Arias. Something about Nino though it’s almost as if he’s well spoken
In Brazil we created the ~~fake~~ trophy "played equally", because we know it's impossible to win nowdays, so when clubs actually play decent and take the game to overtime (such as Flamengo/19 and Palmeiras/21) we just award that to them.
He's wrong though.
We don't *award* any trophies. There's no trophy.
It's a joke that started with 2019's Flamengo vs Liverpool.
Flamengo fans said that that they played better (or at least it was very close) and people started making fun of them saying they won the "played equally" trophy.
Ever since then, anytime a team loses a game to a better one in a somewhat close match, we say that to make fun of their fans.
Fans want to see the team win their trophies.
Most of us do not care about the Spanish super cup, but personally still are losing and if we win, I do celebrate.
As a Barcelona fan, I only care about the Domestic league and cup, and UCL(because of how long it has been).
The Super cup is mostly competitive though. Sevilla took Madrid, Bayern and Man City to extra time. It's not a walk in the park like the CWC often is
Hell, we should have beaten Man City this year. En Nesyri missed a 1v1 to make it 2-0 and Bono somehow fumbled in Walker's easily saveable penalty. Against Bayern En Nesyri again missed a 1v1 in extra time, against Madrid we conceded a 90+ equaliser
There will be 6 CONMEBOL teams with at least 2 of them having just one European team in their group. So maybe 1-2 going to knockouts.
There will be 12 European teams.
It was funny cos Mourinho made fun of Benitez that he is gonna get a free cup as usual due to some previous manager’s effort. And then Benitez went on to lose it.
Chelsea played a record 69 games. No other team ever come close that amount games. I understand arsenal played 71 games in the 70s or something
I mean, you have a financially disparity inside Europe, with some teams earning ridiculous amounts, even european giants have a huge gap to City.
And Fluminense isn’t even between the top clubs in revenue in SA, so the gap is even bigger. Flamengo has the biggest revenue in the continent, they are expected to close 2023 with a revenue of roughly 250M euros, 1.3bi reais. They spent over 150M in their team. Still far from City, but not that bad at all.
Fluminense's title win came out of some heroics and a good bit of luck. My dad's a fan and I told him they were there just for the hell of it and well... things went the way they did.
At least they made it to the finals, that very Flamengo you mentioned managed to bomb on the semis earlier this year. Probably due to their manager, come to think of it.
Our teams would get smoked in the CL.. mainly cause we would lose half of our squad to Europe after reaching such stage lol
It would be interesting but our top players don't last in our teams anymore, they get sold
Come on, everyone in Sudamerica apart from maybe 2-3 clubs at most(and even them would be eliminated in groups most years) would get smoked in CL anyways. The level of even group stages is insanely high
In Europa League the likes of Palmeiras or Flamengo could reach Round of 16 or quarters maybe
Well, 2-3 clubs would be a lot considering only one team would qualify to this hypothetically situation but you are right. I meant that if there was a chance for us to compete, it's completely gone after having our teams dismantled instantly.
I don't think it would be possible for us to compete anyway, but that would kill any hope
Another crazy stat is that the only South American team to scored in a match after 2012 was Palmeiras against Chelsea. All the other SA teams didn't scored (San Lorenzo, River Plate, Grêmio, Flamengo and Fluminense).
The other teams that scored in these 11 matches, excluding Palmeiras, was Kashima Antlers (JAP), Al-Ain (UAE) and Al Hilal (KSA).
The list is this:
2013 - Bayern München 2 x 0 Raja Casablanca (MAR)
2014 - Real Madrid 2 x 0 San Lorenzo
2015 - Barcelona 3 x 0 River Plate
2016 - Real Madrid 4 x 2 Kashima Antlers
2017 - Real Madrid 1 x 0 Grêmio
2018 - Real Madrid 4 x 1 Al-Ain
2019 - Liverpool 1 x 0 Flamengo
2020 - Bayern München 1 x 0 Tigres (MEX)
2021 - Chelsea 2 x 1 Palmeiras
2022 - Real Madrid 5 x 3 Al Hilal
2023 - Manchester City 4 x 0 Fluminense
Pointless competition is pointless.
We’re about to be hit with a massive “greatest trophy in the world” PR campaign though ahead of the revamp it’s getting though. Support your club not FIFA.
Why? Too many or not enough?
Quality wise there should be more, but to get knockout games without an European team we need probably less.
I am afraid it ends up into a „Who manages to beat a UEFA-Club“ Contest.
I think there should be less, maybe an equal amount of slots for each conference? I just feel like having more teams from by far the strongest federation makes it less interesting
People making that argument on here about the *actual* world cup last year were told representation of the confederations didn't matter and to shut up and let the Europeans run the thing lol
For what it's worth I agree. Having 8 non UCL winners cheapens it to me.
Well … if Man City continues to dominate we are going to sen 11 not CL Winners at some point. /s
I would have preferred to send the Champions of Europa League and … forgot the name of the third competition.
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the financial disparity between Europe and SA is insane, it’s something everyone talks about but I honestly don’t know how FIFA/Conmebol/UEFA would fix this. feels like it will only get worse as nobody is trying to change it.
Isn’t part of this just down to out of football things like the economies of the countries
yes the economies play the part, specially when governments embrace foreign states buying clubs and having a say in their respective sporting entities. obviously billionaires, investment groups and others interested will opt for the English league. if a billionaire wanted to buy Benfica then I highly doubt our sócios would accept, and any of them is free to present an offer. clubs and their fans have responsibility.
Those states took over the clubs in England for a reasons it was already the biggest league and it spoke lake the biggest impact. I’d place some of the reason it was already the biggest league down to economics and things outside of football.
as I said, it does help that political leaders and sporting authorities encourage it and the fans also embrace it. let’s not act like the government wasn’t pushing for the Saudi PIF to buy Newcastle. Germany has the best economy Europe and you can see their fans constantly speaking against those situations. it isn’t due to exclusively economy or marketing, there needs to be someone to allow that madness and we both now it in England it’s easily accepted.
They encouraged the Newcastle one for sure the others not really, Germany yes the fans oppose it much more. I just said it’s a factor, France encouraged the PSG takeover and there’s not been a lot since then in the country for example.
I mean your league definitely benefits from exploiting south American talent. Your club, porto and sporting lisbon dominate your country's football financially. And is corrupt as fuck. I don't think you should be moralizing when you have such a corrupt league with thugs literally attacking people.
A corrupt democracy is better than being owned by the Saudi state
you’re assuming I like the corruption that happens in my club ffs. I don’t my guy lmao. and I would honestly like you to elaborate how the Portuguese league is more corrupt than the Prem who is known to embrace blood money. I would rather not having that benefit of exploiting South America and keep our local players like we used to but unfortunately definitely not corrupt leagues like the Prem allowed clubs to have financial doping and buy whatever they want. and we do not exploit not even a third of what you do. if you got offended I’m sorry, but your fanbase is part of the problem as they went on to celebrate being bought by a literal state.
>Those states took over the clubs in England for a reasons it was already the biggest league No it's because England always openly encourages dirty money to be invested in their economy and that goes far beyond football. Actually, this trend moving into football is just a symptom of the wider climate London is the money laundering capital of the world for a reason, many of the most powerful organised crime syndicates in Europe have long washed their money there because they know the authorities will look the other way
Most countries are like that, France encouraged the takeover of PSG in a similar way for example, none of these countries are super moral and gonna not have relations with these type of people or countries if it benefits them.
Chelsea was the first modern incarnation of this. At the time you could argue the EPL may've been the biggest but not nearly as clear by now. Allowing Chelsea to happen opened the floodgates.
Italian clubs did this for a decade before Chelsea. Not just the traditional big ones either (though they were also backed by non-footballing monies), who were Parma in the 70s???
More than a decade. Italian football in the 80s was full of dodgy money. Hence Maradona in Naples.
This is true but it was again choose because the prem was already at that level and on the way to being what it is. Now I’d agree that it probably doesn’t get to where it is now if Chelsea don’t emerge but I also think when Liverpool eventually got a title which happens sooner if Chelsea don’t happen it probably happens anyway, them winning the CL in that fashion in 2005 probably did a lot too. I think it was a mistake though, Roman was on the line terrible human being but it is still one man at least, Newcastle and City was just flat out not excusable and ridiculous.
No, it's down to Europe not having a hard cap on the number of foreign players they can have anymore so now they just gobble up any half decent player that appears.
Good, don’t need any artificial restrictions
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Boca would never financially outmuscle anyone in Argentina
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But boca and city aren’t competing with each other
They will be in the upcoming Club World Cup though! (That 100% isn’t a cheap cashgrab)
Well... no they will not
Don’t think any of the other south american teams will suddenly beat city 3-0 now will they?
Boca's squad value is almost exactly 10x higher than the actual bottom team Arsenal Sarandí. The difference between City and Burnley is just above 5x.
Tbf, our stupid ass league has 28 teams. With 20, the difference would be smaller.
True, though the middle and the bottom seems to be quite close to one another, it's 7-8x with teams around 20th. Honestly, it doesn't really matter since PL player values are inflated to no end and you can't compare teams in different leagues. I mean, Palace has a squad value over 4 times of Boca's and somehow I don't think our squad is better or should be worth more overall...
Your squad is better, although 4 times more is too much. Argentinian values are fucked too, because a player playing for River/Boca has extra value simply due to that, so there's a BoVer tax similar to how there's a PL tax.
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I don't understand the tone of this comment, because River is the rich one
those are mostly English fans whose clubs are on financial doping from investment groups and actual states. UEFA is to blame for allowing abominations like the current CWC champions for example and this tournament will surely become a glorified friendly for Europeans because of those bad decisions.
it already is, nobody cares about it other than the team who's in it and even they wouldn't lose any sleep not winning it. it's a friendly game
It's obviously subjective but the level of CL and Europe's top leagues is above anything else on the world. There is more than just money involved when young players move from SA into European clubs (we can argue if that was always the case), while with Saudi investment that is clearly not the case, the game is still levels below.
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You're genuinely delusional if you don't think the money is the biggest factor to the point of eclipsing everything else and making it irrelevant.
It also makes me laugh when fans of comparatively rich clubs in South America complain about the economic disparity between European clubs and South American clubs.
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How about the lower leagues? Oh, and I said South America, not Brazil. And it still stands. It's hilarious.
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My point is wealth disparities exists everywhere in football, also in South America (I don't know why you keep talking about Brazil), so when South Americans complain about European money stealing their players, I can't help but laugh. It's like when the midtable Premier League sides complain about the top6 sides buying their best players each year, but they do the exact same thing, just that they're buying from relegation candidates, or from the lower leagues. > Just check how many different teams have won the league and compare it to basically any country in Europe where the same 2-3 teams win it every year. Since 2015, you've had three different winners... The premier league has had four in that same time period.
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The only thing they could *try* to do at this point is for the UE to revert the case of Bosman, but that wouldn't solve anything since today clubs such as Real Madrid could already buy the players and then make them habe double nationality later on to free foreign spots, also I don't see UEFA doing anything about this since that would hit the Champions League as well. Or the easiest option at the moment: SA clubs get bought by people with infinity money so they can keep their best players.
they can’t even try to revert it. The EU would dissolve UEFA and every FA before that gets overturned. overturning it literally goes against everything the EU employment and freedom of movement laws stand for
EU labour legislation is far more important and wide reaching than just football matters. The Bosman ruling was a landmark legal case which had ramifications well beyond football and sports.
And it was an absolutely based one
>the UE to revert the case of Bosman That's never going to happen, and there is no justification for that. Wanting to get transfer fees for a player even after the contract is over is against employment laws, plain and simple. Disallowing freedom of movement within the EU by limiting player spots for EU players goes against EU core principles. When it comes to players coming from SA, they aren't directly affected by that decision anyway.
Financial Fair Play.
Thank you for that well thought out argument.
I mean. It should mean something. City spend the GPD of Uruguay to buy Haland and nothing happened.
1. What has that to do with Bosman (the topic of this part of the discussion)? 2. I very much doubt that Uruguay has a GDP in the range of a few 100 mios 3. What should happen? What's your suggestion?
The discussion is about the gap between Europeans clubs (some of them) and the rest of the world. I'm not sure what is the solution, maybe the American way to define a roof of expenses for season or something like that. Is just dont seems fair that a handful os clubs to receive a shitload of oil money and dominate the sport.
But it's not only oil money. Even without that you'll have a gap between those clubs. According to a quick Google search, Fluminense pays salaries of around 20 Mio Euros per year. Most teams in the top European leagues pay more than that. Barcelona pays 10 times that and Bayern 13 times. Dortmund 7 times that. City is around the region of Bayern. Copenhagen is somewhat comparable to Fluminense. The gap is an economical one and not only "oil money".
The Bosman law Is the whole reason this Is an issue in the first place, what are you talking about?
How?
FFP was explicitly designed to avoid violating EU labour laws, else it would've had a shorter shelf life than an already-moldy piece of fruit.
You know is funny when one player costs more than the other complete team
The financial disparity have been there decades ago, but the most influential factor was the number of non-EU players in European teams. In the 80's players like Zico and Maradona went to teams like Udinese and Napoli because foreign player rules were stricter before Bosman ruling. So South American teams could still retain a lot of their top talent because there were no spots available for those players in Europe. Even in 2000, Corinthians' team who won innaugural Club World Cup had 5 players who were champions for Brazil national team in 2002 World Cup roster (Dida, Vampeta, Ricardinho, Edilson, Luizão), and Vasco da Gama had a stacked team too ([both teams placed first in their groups, eliminating Real Madrid and United](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_FIFA_Club_World_Championship)).
In the end, those are mainly economic differences. Even without the premier league or specifically oil money you have huge discrepancies. Unless other continents tie down their talents, that gap won't close.
They won't. Both FIFA and Conmebol are only interested on how to profit off of stuff, they wouldn't even have an idea on how to change things. UEFA would probably prefer to pull out, the CWC's basically pointless these days.
People are critical of it for valid reasons but the new Club World Cup could genuinely be a way to restructure the club game a little. It should bring more money into other confederations.
We live in a real life game of monopoly
It's somewhat like a super cup match between the champion league finalist and the Europa league. It's mostly irrelevant.
It’s more of a ceremonial thing. I knew Flu was gonna get smoked, I was just happy to be watching this game and seeing some of our guys styling on some of the best in the world
That's the same argument people made about the UEFA club competition in Europe. It's mostly the same winners nowadays but small clubs(or better term would be less financially capable clubs) and their fans can get to watch those super teams play in their ground.
Acting like thugs more like - though it is city so it could be worse
You’re right. Classy guys like Jack Grealish and fair skinned Bernardo Silva would never unlike that thug Jhon Arias. Something about Nino though it’s almost as if he’s well spoken
In Brazil we created the ~~fake~~ trophy "played equally", because we know it's impossible to win nowdays, so when clubs actually play decent and take the game to overtime (such as Flamengo/19 and Palmeiras/21) we just award that to them.
That's actually a good decision.
He's wrong though. We don't *award* any trophies. There's no trophy. It's a joke that started with 2019's Flamengo vs Liverpool. Flamengo fans said that that they played better (or at least it was very close) and people started making fun of them saying they won the "played equally" trophy. Ever since then, anytime a team loses a game to a better one in a somewhat close match, we say that to make fun of their fans.
Do the dumb hE's WrOnG tHoUgH would only make sense if they were %100 serious
South Americans take it seriously though (more than European fan's in any case)
Fans want to see the team win their trophies. Most of us do not care about the Spanish super cup, but personally still are losing and if we win, I do celebrate. As a Barcelona fan, I only care about the Domestic league and cup, and UCL(because of how long it has been).
Well, obviously
The Super cup is mostly competitive though. Sevilla took Madrid, Bayern and Man City to extra time. It's not a walk in the park like the CWC often is Hell, we should have beaten Man City this year. En Nesyri missed a 1v1 to make it 2-0 and Bono somehow fumbled in Walker's easily saveable penalty. Against Bayern En Nesyri again missed a 1v1 in extra time, against Madrid we conceded a 90+ equaliser
Well, European Supercup matches are more closely fought
The only reason it gets close is because the supercup happens at the start of the season.
I think it is fair to say Recopa Sudamericana >>> UEFA Super Cup.
Auckland City has the chance to do the funniest thing in 2025!
The new format is just going to be 7 European clubs and maybe 1 conmebol team isn’t it after the first knock out round
There will be 6 CONMEBOL teams with at least 2 of them having just one European team in their group. So maybe 1-2 going to knockouts. There will be 12 European teams.
We're just lucky we didn't have to face a Jorge Almiron masterclass tonight
It was funny cos Mourinho made fun of Benitez that he is gonna get a free cup as usual due to some previous manager’s effort. And then Benitez went on to lose it. Chelsea played a record 69 games. No other team ever come close that amount games. I understand arsenal played 71 games in the 70s or something
I mean, you have a financially disparity inside Europe, with some teams earning ridiculous amounts, even european giants have a huge gap to City. And Fluminense isn’t even between the top clubs in revenue in SA, so the gap is even bigger. Flamengo has the biggest revenue in the continent, they are expected to close 2023 with a revenue of roughly 250M euros, 1.3bi reais. They spent over 150M in their team. Still far from City, but not that bad at all.
Fluminense's title win came out of some heroics and a good bit of luck. My dad's a fan and I told him they were there just for the hell of it and well... things went the way they did. At least they made it to the finals, that very Flamengo you mentioned managed to bomb on the semis earlier this year. Probably due to their manager, come to think of it.
They also bombed from the semis in their last CWC lol
Fluminense might not be top 10 salaries even inside Brazilian league.
Its such a pointless competition lol
Aye, but the little badge you get to have at the centre of your kit is dope
I agree. Enhanced the look of jersey a lot
i honestly didnt even know thats what it was for until now lol
No one will mention how half the team that was won all those European CWC finals are South American themselves?
which teams? Out of those 16 I can only recount Barca 2015 and Inter 2010 being half South American.
It makes the competition pretty pointless Would make more sense to include those winning teams in South America and Asia into the CL somehow
Our teams would get smoked in the CL.. mainly cause we would lose half of our squad to Europe after reaching such stage lol It would be interesting but our top players don't last in our teams anymore, they get sold
Come on, everyone in Sudamerica apart from maybe 2-3 clubs at most(and even them would be eliminated in groups most years) would get smoked in CL anyways. The level of even group stages is insanely high In Europa League the likes of Palmeiras or Flamengo could reach Round of 16 or quarters maybe
Well, 2-3 clubs would be a lot considering only one team would qualify to this hypothetically situation but you are right. I meant that if there was a chance for us to compete, it's completely gone after having our teams dismantled instantly. I don't think it would be possible for us to compete anyway, but that would kill any hope
If Europe wins using South American players, then South America is still winning
Another crazy stat is that the only South American team to scored in a match after 2012 was Palmeiras against Chelsea. All the other SA teams didn't scored (San Lorenzo, River Plate, Grêmio, Flamengo and Fluminense). The other teams that scored in these 11 matches, excluding Palmeiras, was Kashima Antlers (JAP), Al-Ain (UAE) and Al Hilal (KSA). The list is this: 2013 - Bayern München 2 x 0 Raja Casablanca (MAR) 2014 - Real Madrid 2 x 0 San Lorenzo 2015 - Barcelona 3 x 0 River Plate 2016 - Real Madrid 4 x 2 Kashima Antlers 2017 - Real Madrid 1 x 0 Grêmio 2018 - Real Madrid 4 x 1 Al-Ain 2019 - Liverpool 1 x 0 Flamengo 2020 - Bayern München 1 x 0 Tigres (MEX) 2021 - Chelsea 2 x 1 Palmeiras 2022 - Real Madrid 5 x 3 Al Hilal 2023 - Manchester City 4 x 0 Fluminense
How has there been 17 CWC since 2012?
That's not what the title says
It kinda is, though The "since then" is very weird phrasing
Ah, I see the problem now.
You made me read it 3 times again after reading it several times the first time. If you know, please explain instead of just being condescending
There's not much to be said lol. Europe won 16 out of the last 17, this time that they lost was 2012.
Pointless competition is pointless. We’re about to be hit with a massive “greatest trophy in the world” PR campaign though ahead of the revamp it’s getting though. Support your club not FIFA.
Obligatory Fuck Rafa Benitez
Wealth disparity does that to a mfer
This is why i dont like the number of UEFA slots in the 2025 club world cup
Why? Too many or not enough? Quality wise there should be more, but to get knockout games without an European team we need probably less. I am afraid it ends up into a „Who manages to beat a UEFA-Club“ Contest.
I think there should be less, maybe an equal amount of slots for each conference? I just feel like having more teams from by far the strongest federation makes it less interesting
People making that argument on here about the *actual* world cup last year were told representation of the confederations didn't matter and to shut up and let the Europeans run the thing lol For what it's worth I agree. Having 8 non UCL winners cheapens it to me.
Well … if Man City continues to dominate we are going to sen 11 not CL Winners at some point. /s I would have preferred to send the Champions of Europa League and … forgot the name of the third competition.
Commebol needs to give Corinthians or São Paulo a spot in the new CWC.
Such a pointless competition
Such a stupid tournament
Is this why Kylian thinks they’re better?
Doubt Kylian watches this. He was talking about NT and it backfired massively.
What does Kylian even know about playing in the club world cup? 👀
Crazy how his ex team mates did. Well they’re gone now so…