**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Well I mean it’s one of those where the ref is making the decision the defender won the ball so it’s a corner.
Idk how the VAR isn’t having the ref look at that though
The point is: if the ref called a goal kick it would be even more absurd.
It still looked like a clear penalty and I’m not sure why VAR didn’t even have the ref look at it.
How can Var look at this for 2-3 mins and decide it's not a pen?
Not even to call the ref to look that vini is the one who touches the ball there.
This tournament has so many clear calls wrong, don't know if it's incompetence or something else
Hmmm, I'm not sure. If the ref thinks that the defender made a successful tackle and won the ball, then it makes sense to give corner. Actually if he gave goal kick it would be disaster because clearly there is contact.
It’s the only way. Otherwise you have JP telling you the player headed it, or is dribbling, or crossed it into the box. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills, what does that even add to the game??
I watch in Vietnamese. It's so nice to be able to just watch the match and not have to listen to someone try to convince you of their own personal narrative of what they think is going on.
Which also does not matter at all, even if he touched the ball he goes through Vini
The "he touched the ball" moronism is top 1 funniest shit ever that has never been in the rules and commentators and even players point at it like it gets out of a foul
The first replay makes it look like he hit the ball first and Vini falls down without contact. I don't think the commentator's point was what you are saying.
I was pretty upset about yesterday’s onside call against US, but I don’t have a horse in this race and clearly the refs are blowing this call too. Why even have VAR at this point, useless. Legit makes me not want to watch these tournaments anymore.
Actually in South America they usually get it right when they look at it on VAR, although they do take their damn time. I personally find that preferable to the Premier League way of doing things fast and it doesnt matter if they got the right call everytime.
Im honestly surprised how shit this was. This isn’t even “depends on how the judge look at it”, it is just straight up a pen. A.I robots would be able to call a pen here
You're implying he's shit which I won't deny, but he's not the field referee that has to make a split second decision on a shitty angle. He's looking at a screen playing a replay with multiple angles and still made the wrong call, that's bias.
It would be better for us that you play uruguay in semifinals instead, get the shit out of brazil kicked by panama terrorists and then fight uruguay right before the final
That is exactly how the brackets work.
If Brazil wins today the quarter finals will be Brazil x Panama and Uruguay x Colombia.
So if Colombia wins against Uruguay as the guy said Brazil will indeed not have to face Uruguay.
If Brazil wins today the quarter finals will be Brazil x Panama and Uruguay x Colombia. In that scenario Panama or Colombia would most likely need to beat both Brazil and Uruguay to reach the final.
Now if Brazil doesn't win today we will face Uruguay in the quarter final, so that would mean that whoever advances of Colombia and Panama would only need to defeat one of us to reach the final.
So Brazil not winning today increases the chance of Argentina not having to face neither Brazil nor Uruguay in a possible the final.
This has to be the most contrived conspiracy theory I have ever seen. You actually believe this is actually the though process of the ref? It makes so little sense lol.
>You actually believe this is actually the though process of the ref?
I never said that.
You just asked what benefit Argentina could have from Brazil not winning today, so I answered.
That rules analyst doesn't know shit. He also said in the first game Vini wasn't fouled when that Costa Rican player bulldozed through him no where close to the ball. The commentators disagreed with him twice in that first game. They said that should've been a foul and penalty for Brazil and there was another play where he sided with VAR and the commentators disagreed.
Hes just agreeing with whatever VAR/the ref says so they don't look bad.
I think this was a penalty; if the refs think it wasn't, it should have been a goal kick.
Now, if I want to stretch and attempt to rationalize this, I think the only reason that I can think of is that they thought Vini was diving, it seems that he is already dragging his right foot on the grass even before there was any contact, so maybe...but there was eventual contact so still kinda huge mistake here
https://imgur.com/a/2WAOsOH
but even if that is their thought, the ref got wrong the corner (which VAR can't reverse that decision anyway), so another mistake here regardless.
so, yeah, the ref/VAR bailed us out at that moment.
Vini had spent the last 10 minutes diving so I can understand why the ref didn't give it in real time. Still don't understand the var call.
The only explanation I have is he was falling down before the tackle was made but still should have been called I think
CONMEBOL/CONCACAF are not serious organizations.
Everything about this tournament has been a shambles including the intellectually impoverished referees hired for the games
Did the decision get reviewed by VAR? It’s an awful call but I could maybe understand if the ref has a bad angle from behind the play. But VAR should 100% call him ti review it.
Technically every decisions like that get reviewed by Var, they just decided that there was no mistake by the referee which honestly i dont understand but hum
> I am not saying it’s been fudged but isn’t it problematic that the VAR ref is Argentinian?
it changes LITERALLY nothing. We don't cross this group until the final whether it's Colombia or Brazil because of how the brackets were made. Uruguay Brazil and Colombia are all on the same side of the bracket no matter what
CONMEBOL refs are just dogshit. It's like people JUST learnt about this
I agree that this changes nothing and Brazil should have lost the game. However, they shouldn’t have Argentinians refereeing Brazil games in the same way that you wouldn’t want a Brazilian crew refereeing an Argentina game.
> However, they shouldn’t have Argentinians refereeing Brazil games in the same way that you wouldn’t want a Brazilian crew refereeing an Argentina game.
We agree on that, we still have been reffed by Sampaio a million times.
Believe me I would like nothing more than Davinson scoring but it did look like offside to me.
With that said, even Turkish Super Lig implemented semi auto offside lines, how the fuck Copa America doesn’t have it?
[It was a very clear offside](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fpn8y5f5kl7ad1.png), like this was a very clear penalty. Don't try to muddle shit.
Vini actually gets violated just for being a flair player, Munoz has committed 5 fouls without a booking. He is just hacking his ankles like a 12 yr old trying to tackle an adult
Same thing was with Neymar, that's probably part of the reason why he started his theatric rolling: it's more eye-catching and people would laugh at him anyway and called him whining, so he had nothing to lose.
Remember when they were crying “VARSIL!” When Brazil won the first Copa after VAR was introduced and it became harder to make blatant mistakes? Because I do. Funny that.
Honestly given the recordings of Conmebol VAR refs they've released, they'd be more like:
DIIIIIVE!!! DIVEEEEEE!! NO PENALTY!!!! NO TOUCH!!! ONLY GOT THE BALLLLL!!! NO NEED TO REVIEW, NOTHING HAPPENED, DIVEEEE!!! DIVEE!!!
It's clear the VAR ref thinks Muñoz touched the ball.
I'm... not so sure about that. Ball spin doesn't seem to change at the point Muñoz is supposed to have touched it. If he doesn't touch it, this is a clear pen.
Only guess is they're compensating for calling the *wrong* player offside earlier (and for the record, I think they got that call right ...for all the wrong reasons).
I’m wondering if they are trying to be more adherent to the “clear and obvious” use of VAR? In slo-mo we can see the defender doesn’t get the ball but in normal time and depending on angle it is harder to tell for sure.
I don't mean to disrespect the countries but normally when a referee comes from a country without a good league they are completely useless. The ones who come from big leagues aren't great themselves but the minor league ones suck.
lmao do not a single one of you see Vini start to drag his own leg down and fall before Munoz even gets close to him?
Edit: He starts dragging his right foot then lets the rest of his body fall down. Bunch of casuals in here LOL
when watching live thought they didn't give it because Munoz touched the ball or something, now with this replay I'm seeing the reason they didn't give the PK is because it was a clear as day simulation, Vini's already falling before contact... which makes things funnier because if he were just to keep running until contact they would have 100% given the PK, oh the irony lmao
Am I taking crazy pills or is Vini dragging his foot, in the process of falling before the first contact ever takes place?
Looks like the start of a dive that then turns into a legitimate foul.
I think on the first angle there's a whisper of a touch on the ball?
I can't tell if it's Vini's touch or the defender's though (second angle does not let you see it)
It looked stonewall on first watch
Literally irrelevant, he takes out Vini to get the ball
Again it does not say anywhere on the rule that getting the ball means no foul let alone a "whisper of the ball"
So basically you can slide tackle two foot people but if you graze the ball it's all good
I was explaining what (I think) the ref saw - if he thought that there was a touch on the ball, I can see why he made the call / VAR didn't call him
This tackle IMO doesn't go through Vinicius - if he didn't touch the ball the foul is for tripping the player.
There are definite instances of defenders destroying the player and the ball, I don't think this one is it.
Vinicius is just a dumb fuck honestly. If he hadn't started falling before the tackle(making his right leg go numb) he probably could've gotten the penalty.
But nah, bro just had to dive. Guess its a habit hard to break.
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Officiating in this tournament is maybe the worst I’ve ever seen
welcome to Conmebol tournaments, its only downhill from here
This is a Brazilian sentence lol loved it
And theres video assistant referee to fix all the clear and obvious errors, ohh wait
Ref gave a corner, the only option which was definitely wrong
Well I mean it’s one of those where the ref is making the decision the defender won the ball so it’s a corner. Idk how the VAR isn’t having the ref look at that though
It was a disasterclass on all parameters
Ref have been shockingly bad all this tournament, CONMEBOL is a joke
VAR main ref is Argentinian so there isn't much doubt on why lol
who would have thought that this was a poor choice? lol
Conmebol. They have a longstanding history of doing this lol
Because the var ref is from argentina and brazil winning the game means an easier quarter final for them.
How did he win the ball by tripping the other player lol
I didn’t say he won the ball. I’m saying the ref thinks he won the ball so calls a corner and not a penalty
The point is: the defender didn't touched the ball at all
The point is: if the ref called a goal kick it would be even more absurd. It still looked like a clear penalty and I’m not sure why VAR didn’t even have the ref look at it.
Imagine if he gave a goal kick
How can Var look at this for 2-3 mins and decide it's not a pen? Not even to call the ref to look that vini is the one who touches the ball there. This tournament has so many clear calls wrong, don't know if it's incompetence or something else
Lmao, that’s compromise
Hmmm, I'm not sure. If the ref thinks that the defender made a successful tackle and won the ball, then it makes sense to give corner. Actually if he gave goal kick it would be disaster because clearly there is contact.
My favorite part was the Fox laws analyst saying the defender clearly touched the ball lol
He always waits until after VAR makes their decision and then agrees with them
Every time I turn a game that has this Fox crew I die a little inside.
I try to watch the games in Spanish. I don't speak Spanish I hate Fox commentary that much.
It’s the only way. Otherwise you have JP telling you the player headed it, or is dribbling, or crossed it into the box. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills, what does that even add to the game??
This is my biggest problem with US commentators. They just won't shut up!
I watch in Vietnamese. It's so nice to be able to just watch the match and not have to listen to someone try to convince you of their own personal narrative of what they think is going on.
Fox does that with American football too
> Fox laws analyst Another mind-numbingly stupid SC ruling?
Which also does not matter at all, even if he touched the ball he goes through Vini The "he touched the ball" moronism is top 1 funniest shit ever that has never been in the rules and commentators and even players point at it like it gets out of a foul
The first replay makes it look like he hit the ball first and Vini falls down without contact. I don't think the commentator's point was what you are saying.
The first replay definitely looks like he does. The second should remove any doubt that he hit the ball haha
I was pretty upset about yesterday’s onside call against US, but I don’t have a horse in this race and clearly the refs are blowing this call too. Why even have VAR at this point, useless. Legit makes me not want to watch these tournaments anymore.
how is this not a penalty lmao
World class refereeing. Makes Antony Taylor look like the messiah
I used to think the EPL VAR implementation was horrible and the absolute worst. I stand corrected.
Actually in South America they usually get it right when they look at it on VAR, although they do take their damn time. I personally find that preferable to the Premier League way of doing things fast and it doesnt matter if they got the right call everytime.
Im honestly surprised how shit this was. This isn’t even “depends on how the judge look at it”, it is just straight up a pen. A.I robots would be able to call a pen here
This is like the most classic penalty scenario too lol
VAR is Argentinian. That's why
You're implying he's biased which I won't deny, but our refs are just shit
You're implying he's shit which I won't deny, but he's not the field referee that has to make a split second decision on a shitty angle. He's looking at a screen playing a replay with multiple angles and still made the wrong call, that's bias.
Yeah this isn't interpreting things wrong. Dude is fighting with the image that's right in front of him.
What would we even gain by this?
Throw Brazil against Uruguay?
It would be better for us that you play uruguay in semifinals instead, get the shit out of brazil kicked by panama terrorists and then fight uruguay right before the final
Youw will face Uruguay before the final no matter what.
Not if they lose to Colombia
You clearly haven't seen how the brackets work.
That is exactly how the brackets work. If Brazil wins today the quarter finals will be Brazil x Panama and Uruguay x Colombia. So if Colombia wins against Uruguay as the guy said Brazil will indeed not have to face Uruguay.
What?
If Brazil goes in first place Colombia will play Uruguay and if that's the case, they could lose and Brazil wouldn't play them.
If Brazil wins today the quarter finals will be Brazil x Panama and Uruguay x Colombia. In that scenario Panama or Colombia would most likely need to beat both Brazil and Uruguay to reach the final. Now if Brazil doesn't win today we will face Uruguay in the quarter final, so that would mean that whoever advances of Colombia and Panama would only need to defeat one of us to reach the final. So Brazil not winning today increases the chance of Argentina not having to face neither Brazil nor Uruguay in a possible the final.
This has to be the most contrived conspiracy theory I have ever seen. You actually believe this is actually the though process of the ref? It makes so little sense lol.
>You actually believe this is actually the though process of the ref? I never said that. You just asked what benefit Argentina could have from Brazil not winning today, so I answered.
There's no logic to Argentinian refs fucking Brazilians, they don't even need a reason, that's why it's bias.
It’s the same VAR that ruled that first Colombian goal offside, though.
The copa refs aren’t biased or rigging they’re just bad
argentina hardly seems to get such shit calls against them tho hmm
Regular Conmebol experience for Brazil. Argentinian referee, almost certainly recommended by their football federation.
Apparently he got a touch of the ball. At least according to the Fox rules analyst.
That man has to be too old
They have Joe Biden on ref analysis
Funny enough the guy's voice sounds like Trump's
We have finally created the ultimate senior citizen. The energy and coherence of Joe Biden with the mental acuity of Donald Trump
That rules analyst doesn't know shit. He also said in the first game Vini wasn't fouled when that Costa Rican player bulldozed through him no where close to the ball. The commentators disagreed with him twice in that first game. They said that should've been a foul and penalty for Brazil and there was another play where he sided with VAR and the commentators disagreed. Hes just agreeing with whatever VAR/the ref says so they don't look bad.
That was a touch from vini. That dino expert can probably not see anymore.
Except he didn't, lol
The one that insists to be called "Dr."? Yeah, fuck that guy.
Vini was the one that touched the ball
Maybe Vini's balls.
I think this was a penalty; if the refs think it wasn't, it should have been a goal kick. Now, if I want to stretch and attempt to rationalize this, I think the only reason that I can think of is that they thought Vini was diving, it seems that he is already dragging his right foot on the grass even before there was any contact, so maybe...but there was eventual contact so still kinda huge mistake here https://imgur.com/a/2WAOsOH but even if that is their thought, the ref got wrong the corner (which VAR can't reverse that decision anyway), so another mistake here regardless. so, yeah, the ref/VAR bailed us out at that moment.
Vini had spent the last 10 minutes diving so I can understand why the ref didn't give it in real time. Still don't understand the var call. The only explanation I have is he was falling down before the tackle was made but still should have been called I think
He was indeed falling down before Muñoz touched him. That's why there was no penalty. That, plus all the diving, as you said.
how the fuck is this not a penalty? like, seriously. those people involved in the var team should be investigated
because brazil is not argentina. var team was also argentinian and they're argentinas biggest rivals so..
Somehow this is a penalty for Argentina
I’m amazed the referee didn’t even get to check
The corruption is so blatant now there’s no need to charade
What are these refs smoking?
this is a total penalty - joke of a confederation
CONMEBOL/CONCACAF are not serious organizations. Everything about this tournament has been a shambles including the intellectually impoverished referees hired for the games
Concacaf has almost nothing to do with this tournament.
Yeah but they still suck
Several of the referees are from Concacaf.
Yeah a few. I said Concacaf has a little to do with it. Right now an Argentine ref is officiating the Brazil match.
I am not saying it’s been fudged but isn’t it problematic that the VAR ref is Argentinian? Genuinely asking. Seems like a pretty clear penalty to me
Did the decision get reviewed by VAR? It’s an awful call but I could maybe understand if the ref has a bad angle from behind the play. But VAR should 100% call him ti review it.
Ref called a corner. VAR looked at it themselves for 3 mins and said no foul
Ok, then I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt, depending on where he was standing. VAR has been outrageous this whole tournament, holy fuck.
Technically every decisions like that get reviewed by Var, they just decided that there was no mistake by the referee which honestly i dont understand but hum
Absolutely.
It's not problematic, it's by design. Conmebol is theirs and always have been.
> I am not saying it’s been fudged but isn’t it problematic that the VAR ref is Argentinian? it changes LITERALLY nothing. We don't cross this group until the final whether it's Colombia or Brazil because of how the brackets were made. Uruguay Brazil and Colombia are all on the same side of the bracket no matter what CONMEBOL refs are just dogshit. It's like people JUST learnt about this
I agree that this changes nothing and Brazil should have lost the game. However, they shouldn’t have Argentinians refereeing Brazil games in the same way that you wouldn’t want a Brazilian crew refereeing an Argentina game.
> However, they shouldn’t have Argentinians refereeing Brazil games in the same way that you wouldn’t want a Brazilian crew refereeing an Argentina game. We agree on that, we still have been reffed by Sampaio a million times.
Penalty for Argentina 🤓
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Believe me I would like nothing more than Davinson scoring but it did look like offside to me. With that said, even Turkish Super Lig implemented semi auto offside lines, how the fuck Copa America doesn’t have it?
Because to Conmebol, being able to draw the lines wherever they want, and call penalties whenever they want, is a feature. Not a bug.
Incompetence, corruption and low funds probably lol. I agree that on the new angle that was shown Colombia's goal seems like offside tho.
This guy comment + flair answers your question of "isn’t it problematic that the VAR ref is Argentinian?"
[It was a very clear offside](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fpn8y5f5kl7ad1.png), like this was a very clear penalty. Don't try to muddle shit.
it's not controversial they just showed the lines in a new angle and he's clearly off
Flair checks out
Always a pen wtf
The fuck?
Vini actually gets violated just for being a flair player, Munoz has committed 5 fouls without a booking. He is just hacking his ankles like a 12 yr old trying to tackle an adult
There’s a long line of Brazilian players that are familiar with this experience.
And yet the public opinion is that he is whining without reason
Same thing was with Neymar, that's probably part of the reason why he started his theatric rolling: it's more eye-catching and people would laugh at him anyway and called him whining, so he had nothing to lose.
Watching this joke of a tournament after the Euros sure is something.
The field sucks, the refs suck and the crowds suck! So much suck!
major pen
Clear penalty, doesn’t even get close to the ball 😂
CONMEBOL moment
Lmao every little touch was being called a pen in the WC now this isn’t called one? Make it make sense
aaand they scored
3 minutes of VAR review to not say anything, not even call the referee to the screen... WTF????
Remember when they were crying “VARSIL!” When Brazil won the first Copa after VAR was introduced and it became harder to make blatant mistakes? Because I do. Funny that.
Would love to hear the people in the booth talking about this. "yup, clear dive, we called you to give him a yellow for diving, that's it."
Honestly given the recordings of Conmebol VAR refs they've released, they'd be more like: DIIIIIVE!!! DIVEEEEEE!! NO PENALTY!!!! NO TOUCH!!! ONLY GOT THE BALLLLL!!! NO NEED TO REVIEW, NOTHING HAPPENED, DIVEEEE!!! DIVEE!!!
one day... ONE DAY, we'll get live audio from VAR.
Rugby style
It's clear the VAR ref thinks Muñoz touched the ball. I'm... not so sure about that. Ball spin doesn't seem to change at the point Muñoz is supposed to have touched it. If he doesn't touch it, this is a clear pen. Only guess is they're compensating for calling the *wrong* player offside earlier (and for the record, I think they got that call right ...for all the wrong reasons).
Even in the hypothetical scenario where he does touches the ball, its like 1% ball 99% Vini lmao It's always a penalty, shitty refs shitty VAR
Even if he did, it is an absolutely minimal touch. You can't barely touch the ball and trip the other player like that.
The var is argentinian😭
The fuck??? That’s as transparent as you cab get?
That’s a bad one ….
Clearly a penalty
Im colombian, that's a freaking stonewall penalty, I was sure that VAR was going to give it
Went to bed after this lol Bad refeering ruins the enjoyment
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But... but... they correctly canceled an offside goal, so they are robbing Colombia /s
CONMEBOL refs hate Brazil. If that was Argentina it would've been a penalty and a red card against Colombia.
no control of this game
Stonewall
Objectively a penalty. The length of time VAR was taking, you just knew they were looking for anything to not give it.
Joke
Damn these refs are trash.
This is quite embarrassing for the tournament. So many clear decisions not being given. We complain in Europe about far less lol.
Absolute joke
daylight robbery
Only explanation is they're making up for using the wrong player to check for offsides on Colombia's disallowed goal
If you look at his back foot you see he starts falling before the defender even touches him...
var argentino
For those who say penalty, look how Vinicius begins to drag his foot before being touched
And?
You are clearly biased
You too and even blinde. Look de vídeo. 8seg
exactly lol
This is the same dogshit ref for that Argentina Canada game so not surprising
I’m wondering if they are trying to be more adherent to the “clear and obvious” use of VAR? In slo-mo we can see the defender doesn’t get the ball but in normal time and depending on angle it is harder to tell for sure.
All this only to sustain Colombian Ego Streak.
I don't think they thought the Colombian player touched the ball, I believe they thought vini just dived, in which case he should have been booked
I don't mean to disrespect the countries but normally when a referee comes from a country without a good league they are completely useless. The ones who come from big leagues aren't great themselves but the minor league ones suck.
lmao do not a single one of you see Vini start to drag his own leg down and fall before Munoz even gets close to him? Edit: He starts dragging his right foot then lets the rest of his body fall down. Bunch of casuals in here LOL
when watching live thought they didn't give it because Munoz touched the ball or something, now with this replay I'm seeing the reason they didn't give the PK is because it was a clear as day simulation, Vini's already falling before contact... which makes things funnier because if he were just to keep running until contact they would have 100% given the PK, oh the irony lmao
tell me you haven’t played football a day in your life without saying it:
Am I taking crazy pills or is Vini dragging his foot, in the process of falling before the first contact ever takes place? Looks like the start of a dive that then turns into a legitimate foul.
This is a Mickey Mouse tournament
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It wasn't. Sanchez was offside too. They used the wrong formula but somehow got the right answer.
Nah the foot was offside
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The not given goal was actually offsides though
Fair compensation after they rob Colombia from Sanchez goal. A llorar a la llorería 🤷🏽♂️
It was offside
It’s the already falling down that plays against Vini on this one. Bro who cried wolf.
Yes he’s an insufferable asshole. Doesn’t negate from the fact that this bozo ref/var have made a clear wrong decision.
I think on the first angle there's a whisper of a touch on the ball? I can't tell if it's Vini's touch or the defender's though (second angle does not let you see it) It looked stonewall on first watch
Vini touched it.
Then stonewall
Literally irrelevant, he takes out Vini to get the ball Again it does not say anywhere on the rule that getting the ball means no foul let alone a "whisper of the ball" So basically you can slide tackle two foot people but if you graze the ball it's all good
I was explaining what (I think) the ref saw - if he thought that there was a touch on the ball, I can see why he made the call / VAR didn't call him This tackle IMO doesn't go through Vinicius - if he didn't touch the ball the foul is for tripping the player. There are definite instances of defenders destroying the player and the ball, I don't think this one is it.
Clear dive! vini was already diving before opposing player touched him.
Screaming like as if he got an arrow shot to the knee. What a character.
That's your conclusion? You're a joke.
I guess this was our payback for the yepes goal ten years ago?
Vinicius is just a dumb fuck honestly. If he hadn't started falling before the tackle(making his right leg go numb) he probably could've gotten the penalty. But nah, bro just had to dive. Guess its a habit hard to break.
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He didnt, it was Vinicius who touched it