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Software development is the one profession in this country where the only requirement is to "not be completely shit" to land a job.
The fact that he's not advertising himself online is quite telling.
I review CVs like these all the time, unfortunately. It's mostly people who are fresh from studying that doesn't know what information the industry is looking for on a CV, so they just list anything that's listable. Ironically the self-taught or industry trained candidates do better here than the guys who spent half a decade studying for an ever-changing industry.
Would you care to elaborate? What are you looking for in a CV? College grads have no cooking clue how to structure a CV properly and employers wonder why they can't find candidates lol.
Honestly I prefer to see a description of *what* a candidate has done. What projects they've worked on and where they specialize.
A list of technologies on the CV doesn't help at all without a 1-5 or 1-10 rating next to each one. Preferably with an added column for the amount (in years) experience and an indicator of when the last time they've used said technology. You don't have to be good at EVERYTHING. Tell me if you're a good communicator, a good team player, if you're creative in solving problems. Do you prefer engineering type work or product development? Some people are better suited in a supporting role. Others are better at just sitting and writing code in isolation.
Be honest about your strengths and weaknesses. Stuff like "weakness: I work too hard" doesn't show me that you're aware of your own development areas.
SA has enough people who graduate into the work place. The struggle is always in getting the right fit for the position advertised.
Unfortunately I agree with you. I am in his exact shoes and job offers are streaming in. Kind of insulting to the rest of the people who cant find jobs...
I agree. As a software developer/engineer, a lot employers won’t even bat an eye if you don’t have a portfolio of projects on GitHub.
Speaking of that, I need to work on my own portfolio. Distractions, distractions… eish😅
Doesn't even have to be a portfolio of personal projects - though that counts for a lot - but even just bug fixes, commits, PR's, code quality, etc.
ICT employers are international, not local, but you probably want international $$$ anyway.
(My own is terrible, but I play in a different space)
I spent 4 years working on a huge project but that’s all on my old employers gitlab, I’m not gonna spend hours and hours doing more stuff to pad a private GitHub.
yeah then a portfolio site is fine, I'm perfectly happy to have people tune me shit for this but I think proof of work is perfectly reasonable, just show me one project you have completed, show me a site you are proud of.
Would you hire a junior developer without seeing some of their code? no you'd ask to see their code, give them a test project maybe run a pair programming interview.
...and for the people who do have repos available, 80% of them have uploaded it all in a single commit and never worked on it again. Usually it's some tutorial copypasta.
Or they only have commits from a tutorial or course they did, don't get me wrong the Odin Project is cool but even my dumbass can finish the program.. I have more commits than most of the people applying. (and no everyone uses github that's fine but a portfolio site works too)
Bullshit. Software is (one of) my job(s). I'm not going to spend my free time contributing to some open source project so some recruiter can look at it and say ah, I see Pietjie added a test case to snortmaster200 project.
There are ways to check competence without expecting people to use their free time to build a "portfolio".
As an employer, let me just put it this way. All other things being equal, Pietjie gets to come onboard way before you. Seems like he’d need less babysitting.
That is fine. Pietjie can have it. I've been doing this professionally for decades, and if I still need babysitting then I should rather give up now and go shuffle rubber dogshit out of Hong Kong.
If an employer can't figure out if I'm up to scratch without me having to do _free_ work in my spare time, then I am probably not a good fit there in the first place. If a company believes people need "babysitting" then I am probably not a good fit either, developers are not children and should not be treated as such.
Many (not all) employers need to realise that a person is the sum of what he does, not just his job. I prefer a developer with a broad interest (i.e. have hobbies outside software) instead of a basement dwelling 133t h@x0r that can barely interact with the rest of the world.
If I can't suss out whether someone is technically good, there's other ways of doing it: A _paid_ test project. If they have completed _commercial_ projects that are in the public domain and they can show me, great, they should then be able to tell me what they did on the project. If they don't, that is OK, 75% of what I have done professionally is under ironclad NDAs or company confidential or not publicly visible or (in some cases) classified (or deprecated and already replaced because it has been literal decades since release). So, I get that you can't show and tell in some cases. If you have a GitHub portfolio, sure, but I'm not going to penalise you if you don't, software is a _job_.
If you do need to test the person, you have a partial project and ask them to complete it, or extend it. There's a combination of things that you test: 1) whether they can identify coding standards or deficiencies in coding standards, for senior developers I would expect them to find the appropriate coding standard and apply it 2) their ability to find out how to do something and their ability to read code 3) how they interpret the tasks and tackle the problem. The actual coding part (unless it is horrendous, or SO copy paste) is usually less important.
Coding is simple, you can teach a dog to do it with some effort. I'm more interested in how a developer reasons, how they interact and communicate with people, can they interpret requirements, are they able to elicit requirements, whether they have leadership skills or have the ability to grow in that direction, being able to reason about the architecture of a project and how their work fits into it, and being able to take _constructive_ criticism or guidance. There's no point in onboarding someone technically brilliant if they can't work in a team or communicate effectively.
The best developers I've worked with (and there's a lot, from pretty much all over the world, barring one or two countries), are the ones that can communicate well and have a life outside software. The best managers I've worked for were the ones that let the people do their jobs, and the worst were the babysitters (in my experience their projects also performed worse overall).
If you believe in babysitting your devs I'm 90% sure you are hiring the wrong people and their is probably a very high level of resentment in your employees.
Junior devs out there, please take heed: Be professional, professionals get paid for what they do, don't work for free (unless it makes you happy). Find a team that will allow you to grow personally and professionally. Your technical ability is but one part of what you need to be a great dev. Don't allow companies to underpay you since it hurts the entire industry, know your worth. Don't be scared to ask if you don't know (and don't fake it if you don't know, say something), no-one knows everything. Don't stay in toxic work environments, it will eventually poison your personal life. Software development is _job_ it doesn't have to be all that you are.
Thank you for spending all that free time making that long comment I didn’t bother to finish reading. I got to the second or third sentence and got bored.
Any new person would need training. However I don’t have time to deal with kak attitude. People with kak attitude need emotional babysitting, like a stubborn baby. And who’s got time for that?
I get that someone having a portfolio allows you to make a more informed hiring decision, but the lack of a portfolio does not make someone a bad developer surely?
Also, what are you looking for when looking through someone's repos? Are we assuming hobby projects are coded to the same standards as professional work? What if they've clearly just ripped code from one of their jobs? Or if all of their repos are just quickstarts for various frameworks?
This is such a terrible attitude and it's also anti-diversity.
I'm older, and I'm a woman, and one of my kids is special, and yes I'm a developer.
In my 20s when I might have done this, Github wasn't a thing. Then I had kids, and the majority of child rearing effort is mine so I don't have much spare time. Then one of my kids turned out to be special, so that takes most of my spare time. Plus I'm not in my 20s any more so I have to do inconvenient things like exercise so I am healthy enough to work and look after my child.
Not everybody wants to or can spend every waking moment coding. You're missing a lot of different angles to approaching problems if you're only hiring one type of coder.
I think a portfolio of evidence is perfectly reasonable... it's a full stack web dev, their job will be building websites if they cannot point to a website that they build why would I even think about hiring them...
Would you hire someone to watch your kids without checking that they can do what they claim? that's all a portfolio site is, a way for them to demonstrate that they have done what they claim. I'm certain if you were applying for those opening you'd be willing to share a few links to projects you have completed about 80% of the applications so far have not provided one site they have built to demonstrate their skills.
And yeah I want a developer that enjoys what they do and have a site they hone their skills on it's a good indicator.
So you can drop the anti-diversity card if you want but in reality all i want is a developer who can point to something and say "I built this"
>Would you hire someone to watch your kids without checking that they can do what they claim?
Like a show reel of them looking at children?
"Look, that child is clearly alive AND I'm looking at it"
"This one is even smiling at me"
oddly enough only 1 application from a SA developer... so if you are Mmoloki... get a portfolio website...
Like imagine hiring a chef without trying the food they cook it's the same your portfolio site should be the best site you've ever built.
Lol nah that definitely wasn't me.
I was trying to see what responses I'd get sending one resume with my github and one without.
None succeeded, but my github is practically barren so I kind of understand why on that side. More just shooting my shot until I have my portfolio really starts to look good, I struggle to get working on side projects and those are what I can and would like to show on my profile.
Why is he not on linkedin? Recruiters will real him in, in an instant. Universities should also teach students how to find work/fund their own projects/become self employed/how to do and the importance of your own research.
Being on linkedin is fairly basic.
He has a university degree in computer science. If that's true then there is zero chance he doesn't know what LinkedIn is.
Also this guy could easily get a job. It's just about what he wants to earn. With zero work experience you won't earn a while lot (relatively speaking)
Really? I've worked at:
1. A digital media agency
2. A software consulting company
3. Currently at a top global tech company as a developer.
What part of the developer job ecosystem have I not experienced?
To further prove that the degree barely matters:
Many places I've worked at have had people working as senior full stack devs who have no university education at all. Just high school and experience.
I've got the same degree as you.
Worked in e-commerce, manufacturing, ICT, logistics etc.
I've been head hunted by Amazon (although they didn't want me to emigrate)
Currently, I'm building a game engine for e-commerce platforms to make interactive 3D customer experiences.
I don't see how BSc IT held me back either.
There are great jobs posted on dynamite jobs. Including the position I’m currently hiring for. Developers need to demonstrate their skills but the competition is so easy to beat so many developers just have a cv and struggle to show to business people they they have the right skills.
I’d share the link but I’m currently loadshedded it’s on dynamitejobs and featured currently
He needs to cut down his skills list, either tailor it to the company that he’s applying to and lost only the ones relevant to the job, or highlight his strongest ones.
There’s no reason to list what are essentially duplicates, especially at an entry level.
Anyone competent would see the long list and think he’s just listing what he’s touched, not what he’s good at.
What also adds to this is that some of his skills don’t make sense.
Java and object orientated programming are different things
Visual studio and C# are different things
You wouldn’t list HTML and CSS as skills unless you are applying specifically for a web dev job
MYSQL and POSTGRESQL are essentially the same thing at his skill level
Application Programming Interface isn’t a skill.
Hopefully that isn’t his CV.
In tech, experience is king. He needs to showcase his skills more than list them. No one cares what you say you know, until you show them
A lot of people here are absolutely relishing in the opportunity to crap on this young dude who put himself out there and clearly has a lot of ambition.
I wonder, what is it about him or is CV that causes all this negativity?
Some of the criticism is genuine i.e. the need for an online presence, GitHub and the sort, but the rest is pretty much gatekeeping. You see, there was a time when being in tech was only for the ‘smart’ folk and it had an air of mystique about it. Nowadays, tech is a booming field and everyone and their dog wants to be a part of it. The seasoned ‘veterans’ don’t always take too kindly to that, and thus deliberately make it a hostile environment for those that want to join the industry. It’s a form of insecurity. True professionals are not only solid in their tech ability, but their tech mentorship abilities as well.
Of course, that’s not all, but some. The young man will be fine.
In all honesty his CV is not what companies are looking for. I'm also in the job market and companies look for experience or your own projects. They're especially looking for what you're good at.
Just listing a bunch of technologies you've done in your course is barely sufficient. Every single graduate in IT or CompSci has that list.
Recruiters want to see what puts you apart from the rest. It would be far more beneficial if he cut the list down to the technologies he's most proficient in and showed some projects he has done with those technologies.
It's no use listing HTML5 and Java OOP in the same list if a rucruiter doesn't know your proficiency in either. They are vastly different tools for vastly different purposes. For example I know HTML5 and CSS but I don't list it on my CV because that's not what sector I'm applying to.
He studied a difficult and challenging course at university and passed. That alone should be sufficient for companies.
What that indicates is an ambitious and intelligent person. So you're saying people must not study or what 🤦♂️. Or are university degrees in IT a scam then because they charge a fortune.
In the future these companies will demand we be their sex slaves for a few months before they even consider hiring us as possible unpaid interns (slaves) if it keeps going on like this.
Er... I wouldn't hire this guy. He's got 'application programming interface' on that list, that's not a thing you can call a skill. Everything is an 'application programming interface' in this line of work.
This is like a car mechanic listing which vehicles he's done manufacturer training on, and the last item is 'engine'. It makes no sense.
To be fair - I’ve seen HR shit that literally just looks for keywords like that. Sure, it means nothing but yet… automated tools with crap data produce crap results
Also, he's presumably never worked professionally and might feel he needs to pad out the CV a little (in the absence of more skills). Or might not know any better.
I also remember being very naïve and woefully unprepared for my first job. Like, nobody even tought us about version control. Literally on my first day "And here's the link to our git-repo" *stares blankly. "Are you familiar with git?". "No? So you used SVN before? So, when multiple devs want to work together..."
Good catch. He also has CSS and CSS3 on there as separate items.
A person with these skills would be snapped up quickly. He might not be able to pass interviews because he can't explain the terms on his CV, especially if he can't list or group them properly
He’s a graduate, he doesn’t know shit and that’s acceptable at his level. Companies know that when they hire graduates.
Don’t be so hard on him. I’m a tech lead by the way and I train lots of graduates.
True, however I'd still say there's some use in citing experience in developing RESTful APIS especially given that most of his skills are frontend frameworks/libraries.
Yeah i also think maybe he doesnt have anything tangible or any personal side projects to show potential employers. But i wish the guy good luck though
Why is he standing outside with a paper sign though - is he doing a skit or something?
The days of walking into a company, asking for jobs at reception and giving a firm handshake before starting are at least 2 decades out of date; why not send job applications via email/LinkedIn?
I won't say portfolios are required; I haven't needed one yet (though in all cases they would be nice to have, I'm sure). Certainly, however, it'd be nice to know what has been going wrong in interviews thus far; those would be points to address.
One other thing I'd recommend is making use of proofreader services (as I recall, universities often offer them for free or very cheap); minor typos and issues on a CV do way more damage than they have any reason to do, and just getting a proofreader to check over your CV is the easiest way to avoid this from damaging your prospects before even walking in the door.
Thank you for all the help. I actually do not personally know this young man. This just landed on my FB, and I decided to do my part. I have sent him all the helpful information that ya'll provided. I have even spoken to him on the phone. Apparently he lives in Pretoria.
I will, however, keep sending him whatever new information I receive. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Thank you for this chat. I now know why I told my young bro to buy a Raspberry Pi.
Quick Question: is it a thing in "IT" to demonstrate your skills and ish, for example "portfolio of projects on GitHub"?
My bro wants to get into the IT space and I told him to get a Raspberry Pi, was I correct?
A raspberry pi is a great thing to tinker with, but to learn programming, I don't think it's the best resource.
For programming you need experience to get anywhere. I got my job by showing the companies projects I have built that showcase my understanding of programming.
My guess is the interviews he has been through they catch him out at "candidate must have proven experience in" blah blah blah...
Edit: I think this chap would benefit from attending wethinkcode...a proper coding boot camp.
You can tell by the way he worded those skills that he has none of them. Maybe he should start by being honest about the skills he has and what he can actually offer.
I seen people do this in London and getting a lot of traction on LinkedIn. Difference was they were dressed in business wear, had copies of their CV to handout and the sign had clear details for the online profile (barcode as well I think from what I remember). Also at areas with a lot of foot traffic tube station for example.
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Software development is the one profession in this country where the only requirement is to "not be completely shit" to land a job. The fact that he's not advertising himself online is quite telling.
As a software engineer I can tell by his CV that he doesn't know what he is talking about and I wouldn't even waste my time interviewing him.
I review CVs like these all the time, unfortunately. It's mostly people who are fresh from studying that doesn't know what information the industry is looking for on a CV, so they just list anything that's listable. Ironically the self-taught or industry trained candidates do better here than the guys who spent half a decade studying for an ever-changing industry.
Would you care to elaborate? What are you looking for in a CV? College grads have no cooking clue how to structure a CV properly and employers wonder why they can't find candidates lol.
Honestly I prefer to see a description of *what* a candidate has done. What projects they've worked on and where they specialize. A list of technologies on the CV doesn't help at all without a 1-5 or 1-10 rating next to each one. Preferably with an added column for the amount (in years) experience and an indicator of when the last time they've used said technology. You don't have to be good at EVERYTHING. Tell me if you're a good communicator, a good team player, if you're creative in solving problems. Do you prefer engineering type work or product development? Some people are better suited in a supporting role. Others are better at just sitting and writing code in isolation. Be honest about your strengths and weaknesses. Stuff like "weakness: I work too hard" doesn't show me that you're aware of your own development areas. SA has enough people who graduate into the work place. The struggle is always in getting the right fit for the position advertised.
Unfortunately I agree with you. I am in his exact shoes and job offers are streaming in. Kind of insulting to the rest of the people who cant find jobs...
GitHub is his CV
I agree. As a software developer/engineer, a lot employers won’t even bat an eye if you don’t have a portfolio of projects on GitHub. Speaking of that, I need to work on my own portfolio. Distractions, distractions… eish😅
Doesn't even have to be a portfolio of personal projects - though that counts for a lot - but even just bug fixes, commits, PR's, code quality, etc. ICT employers are international, not local, but you probably want international $$$ anyway. (My own is terrible, but I play in a different space)
I’m currently hiring a full stack dev the number of people who don’t share a GitHub or portfolio site a freaking shocking.
I spent 4 years working on a huge project but that’s all on my old employers gitlab, I’m not gonna spend hours and hours doing more stuff to pad a private GitHub.
yeah then a portfolio site is fine, I'm perfectly happy to have people tune me shit for this but I think proof of work is perfectly reasonable, just show me one project you have completed, show me a site you are proud of. Would you hire a junior developer without seeing some of their code? no you'd ask to see their code, give them a test project maybe run a pair programming interview.
Yeah that’s fair enough.
...and for the people who do have repos available, 80% of them have uploaded it all in a single commit and never worked on it again. Usually it's some tutorial copypasta.
So much this
Or they only have commits from a tutorial or course they did, don't get me wrong the Odin Project is cool but even my dumbass can finish the program.. I have more commits than most of the people applying. (and no everyone uses github that's fine but a portfolio site works too)
Bullshit. Software is (one of) my job(s). I'm not going to spend my free time contributing to some open source project so some recruiter can look at it and say ah, I see Pietjie added a test case to snortmaster200 project. There are ways to check competence without expecting people to use their free time to build a "portfolio".
Like not hiring an accountant because they don't do their family business' books in their free time
Ah yes I see you have been a lawyer for many years. How many times have you sued yourself in your free time?
Exactly. I'm not impressed by a forked Todo list or a 4 page portfolio site with excessive transitions.
As an employer, let me just put it this way. All other things being equal, Pietjie gets to come onboard way before you. Seems like he’d need less babysitting.
That is fine. Pietjie can have it. I've been doing this professionally for decades, and if I still need babysitting then I should rather give up now and go shuffle rubber dogshit out of Hong Kong. If an employer can't figure out if I'm up to scratch without me having to do _free_ work in my spare time, then I am probably not a good fit there in the first place. If a company believes people need "babysitting" then I am probably not a good fit either, developers are not children and should not be treated as such. Many (not all) employers need to realise that a person is the sum of what he does, not just his job. I prefer a developer with a broad interest (i.e. have hobbies outside software) instead of a basement dwelling 133t h@x0r that can barely interact with the rest of the world. If I can't suss out whether someone is technically good, there's other ways of doing it: A _paid_ test project. If they have completed _commercial_ projects that are in the public domain and they can show me, great, they should then be able to tell me what they did on the project. If they don't, that is OK, 75% of what I have done professionally is under ironclad NDAs or company confidential or not publicly visible or (in some cases) classified (or deprecated and already replaced because it has been literal decades since release). So, I get that you can't show and tell in some cases. If you have a GitHub portfolio, sure, but I'm not going to penalise you if you don't, software is a _job_. If you do need to test the person, you have a partial project and ask them to complete it, or extend it. There's a combination of things that you test: 1) whether they can identify coding standards or deficiencies in coding standards, for senior developers I would expect them to find the appropriate coding standard and apply it 2) their ability to find out how to do something and their ability to read code 3) how they interpret the tasks and tackle the problem. The actual coding part (unless it is horrendous, or SO copy paste) is usually less important. Coding is simple, you can teach a dog to do it with some effort. I'm more interested in how a developer reasons, how they interact and communicate with people, can they interpret requirements, are they able to elicit requirements, whether they have leadership skills or have the ability to grow in that direction, being able to reason about the architecture of a project and how their work fits into it, and being able to take _constructive_ criticism or guidance. There's no point in onboarding someone technically brilliant if they can't work in a team or communicate effectively. The best developers I've worked with (and there's a lot, from pretty much all over the world, barring one or two countries), are the ones that can communicate well and have a life outside software. The best managers I've worked for were the ones that let the people do their jobs, and the worst were the babysitters (in my experience their projects also performed worse overall). If you believe in babysitting your devs I'm 90% sure you are hiring the wrong people and their is probably a very high level of resentment in your employees. Junior devs out there, please take heed: Be professional, professionals get paid for what they do, don't work for free (unless it makes you happy). Find a team that will allow you to grow personally and professionally. Your technical ability is but one part of what you need to be a great dev. Don't allow companies to underpay you since it hurts the entire industry, know your worth. Don't be scared to ask if you don't know (and don't fake it if you don't know, say something), no-one knows everything. Don't stay in toxic work environments, it will eventually poison your personal life. Software development is _job_ it doesn't have to be all that you are.
Thank you for spending all that free time making that long comment I didn’t bother to finish reading. I got to the second or third sentence and got bored.
Pretty much tells me what sort of work culture you think is appropriate. Have a good one.
Lol same here. I tried hard to go to the 4th paragraph until I concluded that this is just rambling of how professional and wonderful he is.
I downvoted your comment. The man provided a ton of value, and you just come here with your kak comment.
>Seems like he’d need less babysitting Unless you're hiring for snortmaster200, why would this indicate Pietjie doesn't need babysitting?
Any new person would need training. However I don’t have time to deal with kak attitude. People with kak attitude need emotional babysitting, like a stubborn baby. And who’s got time for that?
What would some copy pasta on GitHub tell you about their attitude?
I get that someone having a portfolio allows you to make a more informed hiring decision, but the lack of a portfolio does not make someone a bad developer surely? Also, what are you looking for when looking through someone's repos? Are we assuming hobby projects are coded to the same standards as professional work? What if they've clearly just ripped code from one of their jobs? Or if all of their repos are just quickstarts for various frameworks?
You want to sign an NDA?
This is such a terrible attitude and it's also anti-diversity. I'm older, and I'm a woman, and one of my kids is special, and yes I'm a developer. In my 20s when I might have done this, Github wasn't a thing. Then I had kids, and the majority of child rearing effort is mine so I don't have much spare time. Then one of my kids turned out to be special, so that takes most of my spare time. Plus I'm not in my 20s any more so I have to do inconvenient things like exercise so I am healthy enough to work and look after my child. Not everybody wants to or can spend every waking moment coding. You're missing a lot of different angles to approaching problems if you're only hiring one type of coder.
I think a portfolio of evidence is perfectly reasonable... it's a full stack web dev, their job will be building websites if they cannot point to a website that they build why would I even think about hiring them... Would you hire someone to watch your kids without checking that they can do what they claim? that's all a portfolio site is, a way for them to demonstrate that they have done what they claim. I'm certain if you were applying for those opening you'd be willing to share a few links to projects you have completed about 80% of the applications so far have not provided one site they have built to demonstrate their skills. And yeah I want a developer that enjoys what they do and have a site they hone their skills on it's a good indicator. So you can drop the anti-diversity card if you want but in reality all i want is a developer who can point to something and say "I built this"
>Would you hire someone to watch your kids without checking that they can do what they claim? Like a show reel of them looking at children? "Look, that child is clearly alive AND I'm looking at it" "This one is even smiling at me"
I might have been one of them, lol.
oddly enough only 1 application from a SA developer... so if you are Mmoloki... get a portfolio website... Like imagine hiring a chef without trying the food they cook it's the same your portfolio site should be the best site you've ever built.
Lol nah that definitely wasn't me. I was trying to see what responses I'd get sending one resume with my github and one without. None succeeded, but my github is practically barren so I kind of understand why on that side. More just shooting my shot until I have my portfolio really starts to look good, I struggle to get working on side projects and those are what I can and would like to show on my profile.
Thank you. I will pass this on.
Yeah. Was wondering where the github link was.
Why is he not on linkedin? Recruiters will real him in, in an instant. Universities should also teach students how to find work/fund their own projects/become self employed/how to do and the importance of your own research. Being on linkedin is fairly basic.
He is on LinkedIn. He posted this photo with a status on his LinkedIn profile
Thank you for the advice. Most of these youngsters lack the resources and the know-how.
He has a university degree in computer science. If that's true then there is zero chance he doesn't know what LinkedIn is. Also this guy could easily get a job. It's just about what he wants to earn. With zero work experience you won't earn a while lot (relatively speaking)
He does not have a degree in computer science, he has a degree in IT. Very different things
Not really. I also have a BSc IT and it's never made a difference
Then you need to broaden your experience 🙂
Really? I've worked at: 1. A digital media agency 2. A software consulting company 3. Currently at a top global tech company as a developer. What part of the developer job ecosystem have I not experienced? To further prove that the degree barely matters: Many places I've worked at have had people working as senior full stack devs who have no university education at all. Just high school and experience.
I've got the same degree as you. Worked in e-commerce, manufacturing, ICT, logistics etc. I've been head hunted by Amazon (although they didn't want me to emigrate) Currently, I'm building a game engine for e-commerce platforms to make interactive 3D customer experiences. I don't see how BSc IT held me back either.
Booking.com?
The point is that I don't need to broaden my experience. I have experience and from that I see it does not make a difference.
That’s a bingo! I’m glad it worked out for you 🙂
Makes me glad we do LinkedIn profiles and CV’s in LO cause I don’t think I’d take the time to learn how to otherwise
There are great jobs posted on dynamite jobs. Including the position I’m currently hiring for. Developers need to demonstrate their skills but the competition is so easy to beat so many developers just have a cv and struggle to show to business people they they have the right skills. I’d share the link but I’m currently loadshedded it’s on dynamitejobs and featured currently
u/rgopf66 you seem to be in touch with the guy link: https://dynamitejobs.com/company/wilnaudesign/remote-job/full-stack-developer
Not just CSS3 but CSS too. Wow!
Html AND html5
Not just Java but Java OOP too
Not just Java but JavaScript too.
Not just C# but Visual Studio too.
Lol, clearly not a programmer, hey?
Not just a programmer but a web developer.
He needs to cut down his skills list, either tailor it to the company that he’s applying to and lost only the ones relevant to the job, or highlight his strongest ones. There’s no reason to list what are essentially duplicates, especially at an entry level. Anyone competent would see the long list and think he’s just listing what he’s touched, not what he’s good at. What also adds to this is that some of his skills don’t make sense. Java and object orientated programming are different things Visual studio and C# are different things You wouldn’t list HTML and CSS as skills unless you are applying specifically for a web dev job MYSQL and POSTGRESQL are essentially the same thing at his skill level Application Programming Interface isn’t a skill. Hopefully that isn’t his CV. In tech, experience is king. He needs to showcase his skills more than list them. No one cares what you say you know, until you show them
A lot of people here are absolutely relishing in the opportunity to crap on this young dude who put himself out there and clearly has a lot of ambition. I wonder, what is it about him or is CV that causes all this negativity?
Some of the criticism is genuine i.e. the need for an online presence, GitHub and the sort, but the rest is pretty much gatekeeping. You see, there was a time when being in tech was only for the ‘smart’ folk and it had an air of mystique about it. Nowadays, tech is a booming field and everyone and their dog wants to be a part of it. The seasoned ‘veterans’ don’t always take too kindly to that, and thus deliberately make it a hostile environment for those that want to join the industry. It’s a form of insecurity. True professionals are not only solid in their tech ability, but their tech mentorship abilities as well. Of course, that’s not all, but some. The young man will be fine.
I couldn't have said it better myself. In the wise words of OP, thank you for your input.
In all honesty his CV is not what companies are looking for. I'm also in the job market and companies look for experience or your own projects. They're especially looking for what you're good at. Just listing a bunch of technologies you've done in your course is barely sufficient. Every single graduate in IT or CompSci has that list. Recruiters want to see what puts you apart from the rest. It would be far more beneficial if he cut the list down to the technologies he's most proficient in and showed some projects he has done with those technologies. It's no use listing HTML5 and Java OOP in the same list if a rucruiter doesn't know your proficiency in either. They are vastly different tools for vastly different purposes. For example I know HTML5 and CSS but I don't list it on my CV because that's not what sector I'm applying to.
He studied a difficult and challenging course at university and passed. That alone should be sufficient for companies. What that indicates is an ambitious and intelligent person. So you're saying people must not study or what 🤦♂️. Or are university degrees in IT a scam then because they charge a fortune. In the future these companies will demand we be their sex slaves for a few months before they even consider hiring us as possible unpaid interns (slaves) if it keeps going on like this.
Er... I wouldn't hire this guy. He's got 'application programming interface' on that list, that's not a thing you can call a skill. Everything is an 'application programming interface' in this line of work. This is like a car mechanic listing which vehicles he's done manufacturer training on, and the last item is 'engine'. It makes no sense.
To be fair - I’ve seen HR shit that literally just looks for keywords like that. Sure, it means nothing but yet… automated tools with crap data produce crap results
Also, he's presumably never worked professionally and might feel he needs to pad out the CV a little (in the absence of more skills). Or might not know any better. I also remember being very naïve and woefully unprepared for my first job. Like, nobody even tought us about version control. Literally on my first day "And here's the link to our git-repo" *stares blankly. "Are you familiar with git?". "No? So you used SVN before? So, when multiple devs want to work together..."
Good catch. He also has CSS and CSS3 on there as separate items. A person with these skills would be snapped up quickly. He might not be able to pass interviews because he can't explain the terms on his CV, especially if he can't list or group them properly
Thank you for your input.
He’s a graduate, he doesn’t know shit and that’s acceptable at his level. Companies know that when they hire graduates. Don’t be so hard on him. I’m a tech lead by the way and I train lots of graduates.
True, however I'd still say there's some use in citing experience in developing RESTful APIS especially given that most of his skills are frontend frameworks/libraries.
Most likely if he can't get a job with those qualifications and tech stack on his CV, his practical knowledge doesn't match what he's claiming at all.
Yeah i also think maybe he doesnt have anything tangible or any personal side projects to show potential employers. But i wish the guy good luck though
What kind of software developer prints out his CV on a huge ass sheet of paper?
This guy needs a LinkedIn, not a printed sign. Best way to get jobs in this industry.
Why is he standing outside with a paper sign though - is he doing a skit or something? The days of walking into a company, asking for jobs at reception and giving a firm handshake before starting are at least 2 decades out of date; why not send job applications via email/LinkedIn? I won't say portfolios are required; I haven't needed one yet (though in all cases they would be nice to have, I'm sure). Certainly, however, it'd be nice to know what has been going wrong in interviews thus far; those would be points to address. One other thing I'd recommend is making use of proofreader services (as I recall, universities often offer them for free or very cheap); minor typos and issues on a CV do way more damage than they have any reason to do, and just getting a proofreader to check over your CV is the easiest way to avoid this from damaging your prospects before even walking in the door.
Thank you for all the help. I actually do not personally know this young man. This just landed on my FB, and I decided to do my part. I have sent him all the helpful information that ya'll provided. I have even spoken to him on the phone. Apparently he lives in Pretoria. I will, however, keep sending him whatever new information I receive. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
This reminds me I need to update my portfolio site to point to my GitHub and not my email
Thank you. I sent him the link.
Thank you for this chat. I now know why I told my young bro to buy a Raspberry Pi. Quick Question: is it a thing in "IT" to demonstrate your skills and ish, for example "portfolio of projects on GitHub"? My bro wants to get into the IT space and I told him to get a Raspberry Pi, was I correct?
A raspberry pi is a great thing to tinker with, but to learn programming, I don't think it's the best resource. For programming you need experience to get anywhere. I got my job by showing the companies projects I have built that showcase my understanding of programming.
>Quick Question: is it a thing in "IT" to demonstrate your skills and ish, for example "portfolio of projects on GitHub"? Absolutely
My guess is the interviews he has been through they catch him out at "candidate must have proven experience in" blah blah blah... Edit: I think this chap would benefit from attending wethinkcode...a proper coding boot camp.
Jeez, any one of the big banks would have him
You can tell by the way he worded those skills that he has none of them. Maybe he should start by being honest about the skills he has and what he can actually offer.
He needs to make his CV smaller.
He's standing outside a company. Did they hire him?
Thank you for your input.
I seen people do this in London and getting a lot of traction on LinkedIn. Difference was they were dressed in business wear, had copies of their CV to handout and the sign had clear details for the online profile (barcode as well I think from what I remember). Also at areas with a lot of foot traffic tube station for example.
The problem in SA is that, if this kid was dressed in a suit, he'd just be asking to be mugged.😢😭
Dude what
Jesus this guy is more qualified than most people I know
If he’s listing CSS3, CSS, and “Application Programming Interface” as skills, I wouldn’t go so far…
If anything over qualified, unfortunately when someone sees that we often tend to think jack of all trades and master of none.
I need transcripts. Can you please update the photo to include some distinctions?
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Probably because he doesn't really understand that Java is a language and OOP is a paradigm.
An actual portfolio demonstrating his capabilities would be nice, but I am not an employer.