People like to shit on Doug, but that attitude really sends my respect for him through the roof, and gets me really excited for steen. He may not always be batting 1000, but we’re a solid organization. Even during the low points of this season, even the most-down among us (me), had next year to look forward to.
I find it \*endlessly hilarious\* that people talk so much shit on Doug when, by almost all reasonable standards for GMs, he's basically the cream of the crop. No one bats 1.000, but his average is pretty bonkers high if you ask me. And this take of his only strengthens that opinion.
I mean yeah when you let Pietrangelo walk and sign Krug and Faulk, people are going to criticize you. I think that sentiment is warranted, but a lot of people don’t know how to build a team for the future, either.
I don’t know what the right answer is, but I am in the camp that was left scratching its head when Pie left over one contract stipulation.
I file that under the "not batting 1.000" section. There are obvious mistakes, and those are amplified just because people love shitting on everything. Even if you consider those to be really big mistakes, the obvious successes still, at least to me, ***greatly*** outweigh the mistakes.
He traded Eric Brewer for the pick that would become Jordan Binnington; Brad Boyes for the pick that would become Joel Edmunson; D'Agostini and a 7th for the pick that would become Niko Mikkola; two nobodies and a pick for Jay Bouwmeester; the Perron trade turned into Ivan Barbashev (and we still got Perron back....twice); The Ryan Miller trade (bad in hindsight, but I certainly remember everyone being stoked about it at the time, and all we lost for it was Chris Stewart, William Carrier, and Jaro Halak....); Carl Gunnarsson & Ville Husso for Roman Polak; **Brian Elliot for the pick that would become Jordan Kyrou;** Reaves for Sunny; **the hilarious fleecing of the Flyers for Brayden Schenn; Ryan O'Reilly** **~~fleecing~~** ~~(edit: not much of a fleecing, but still...)~~(though Tage is very good now, I think I'll take the cup over Tage.....); Faulk trade (say what you will about extending him, but the trade itself was pretty damned good); **the Buchnevich fleecing** for Sammy Blais and a 2nd rounder; The haul for Tarasenko, Mikkola, and O'Reilly...
I find it ridiculous to look only at the glaring mistakes and forget the myriad moves that straight up won us a cup (possibly two if COVID didn't fuck everything up everywhere....), and I think put us in pretty decent shape moving forward.
I agree with you, I’m merely stating that that move was very poignant in Blues history.
One point I disagree — COVID has to be treated as a constant because every team went through COVID. Sure, you could argue that different schedules lead to different populations mixing influencing the chance of contracting the virus, but that would be pretty exhausting.
No doubt.
And for sure - I just know that like half the team actually got COVID during the break - that coupled with the previous year's exhausting run, plus the mental side of having to shut everything down and somehow restart it at the same level of intensity all add up to devastation of what many people felt was a legit cup contender for the 2nd consecutive year. Not an excuse, just a bummer of reality.
There's a lot of whiffs you're missing. For every "hit" you're trying to mention (Ryan Miller didn't want to come here and many fans here knew that) I can find just as many, actually more misses. Army dismantled a cup team in a terrible way and didn't have any clear cut direction until it blew up in his face. To his very fortunate luck or whatever you want to call it with the help of a great staff in place even after losing Bill who was our scouting mastermind, we seem to have a bright future with the offense and goaltending. Defense is still up in the air. Theo looks very promising one year post draft but still has developing to do. Peru we all know has a bright future if he can just stay healthy. But that's two guys. There's a lot to straighten out. Most importantly actually building a complimentary defense room which he didn't do with the current group.
Lets also not forget how the cup year went that absolutely blew up in Army's face. We had to get Binner back off loan taking a hope and prayer stab at that because Allen who it had been glaringly obvious for multiple seasons prior couldn't be a true number one, was foolishly given the reigns to be the clear cut number 1. And then Larry Robinson being gracious enough to agree to come down from the press box and back behind the bench again for the first time in over a decade to straighten out the defense. Then the rest fell into place. That's just dumb luck that went our way. Not competent thought out planning and action.
Army royally fucked up a cup team in dallas too. One of the most stacked defenses in history and just started messing that up and had a short tenure there because of it, only lasting 3 years.
People on here foolishly think Army is just this insanely great GM. For all the wins he has, I bet Brisebois passes him and will have more cups and deeper playoff runs and overall more success while being GMs at the same time. I can point out Rutherford of the Pens before he finally stepped down and what he did in his stretch which far surpasses Army. I can name the Canes Waddel who had WAY bigger constraints to work with due to ownership and how he built a long sustaining successful team, albeit coming up short, but again a way less market than we have here and they've been a premier team for over the last 5 years now. What Sakic has done with the Avs. What McCrimmon has done with Vegas in it's short existence. Point is, Army has better competitors than him. And that's a very true and factual statement when you actually deep dive into the facts.
I particularly love that he argues that Binnington (that Army drafted...) is really the reason we won a cup, and that had nothing to do with Army. And that Larry Robinson (who Army hired) was really the brains behind the cup win. Keeps talking about "diving into the facts" 🤣🤣
Was Binner the projected starter at any point before finally making him the starter?
Was Larry Robinson hired as a coach?
I particularly love you're insanely flawed logic
Tiresome take, he is a terrible GM and the cup was a fluke.....yawn.
Say what you will about that Dallas team, but you are leaving out the fact that it wasn't dismantled because of bad personnel decisions. The NHL launched the salary cap after the 04-05 season and plenty of teams had to make money moves rather than player moves. The Era of cash rich super teams was over. In fact you could pretty easily argue his drafting ability was the one thing that gave that team any life for years afterwards.
Other than his record as a GM speaking for itself, hockey Canada keeps picking the man for a reason. His drafting abilities especially considering where the team typically drafts and assest management are top notch, regardless of how revisionist you choose to be about it. He is hands down the best GM the team has ever had and we will look back on his tenure and the success that came with it and miss it mightily in the future.
Oh I'm very aware of the salary cap post lockout. Guess you forget he took over prior to the lockout. So good try there. Actually his drafting wasn't that great at all for dallas. Dallas hit a big decline post cup. Not to the degree we had post lockout, but a significant decline.
As far as our drafting, Bill Armstrong is HEAVILY credited as the mastermind of that while he was here and why Utah will very likely be a pretty competitive team in the near future. There's plenty of articles you can easily go look up on Bill.
Army's asset management isn't top notch lol. Hence the for every hit I can name as many and likely more whiffs. Tiresome ignorance as I always see on here. Yawn
So, a bunch of GMs, who had to have the worst team in the league for a couple of seasons in order to get generational players, are better than Armstrong? Idk, I'll take consistent success in place of tanking for a generational player.
Brisebois wasn't the GM when Stammer and Kuch were drafted but good try. At what point has Vegas ever tanked? Who is generational on the canes? But hey go off man
When did the Canes win a Cup? How long is Vegas' success sustained? The fact that anyone on Reddit thinks they have a better grasp on anything in the NHL at a greater level than a dude who has spent over a decade at the highest position building a Cup winning team is laughable. But hey, go off man.
Revert back to where I address the Canes situation having way more constraints to deal with than we do. And so far Vegas is going 7 years strong and won a cup in 6 with two trips there already and 3 conference finals. While dealing with a lot of injuries. You can say what you want about their cap circumvention, but they're not the only team to do it and it's not illegal to do.
So we can do this all day. Guess everyone on here forgets Army was on the hot seat when we won the cup. But hey go off man.
No. You're the kind of person that could be persuaded from your shit take if god, himself, came down from the heavens, slapped you in the face, and told you you were wrong. I've watched multiple people provide ample support to refute your nonsensical garbage - me included - and they might as well be arguing with a particularly stubborn rock. You can't even escape the failed logic *of your own argument*. lol....
lmfao no people provide bull shit like yourself in your emotionally driven subjectiveness. i also back my shit up. I also, when proven wrong admit that. But you're using a cop out. I literally just listed all factual things that you can look up. I opened the door to you providing facts to refute them. You can't. The thing is too many on this sub are HIGHLY HIGHLY misinformed in their own ignorance and spout off as if they are Elliot Friedman or some inside person. It's extremely obvious of those who've never played the game, or never played it to any significant level, and sure as hell aren't students of the game. So my "stuborness" and "arrogance" is in response of misinformed people that act like they're speaking the gospel and drinking the kool-aide. So either quit your cowardess cop-out response and prove me wrong, or get over yourself
I have literally watched youa outright ignore everything people say in favor of your outright idiotic take. The downvotes tell you what everyone thinks of your "facts", and the replies (not just from this thread....) also do a good job of informing you of why your take is idiotic. You just don't give a fuck.
You'd rather act like some sort of victim of groupthink that imagine for even one second that you JUST MIGHT be wrong... You aren't smart, your information is incomplete, and the conclusion you draw from your incomplete information is hilariously stupid.
But yeah - keep thinking that Canada OC repeatedly chooses a terrible GM for their Olympic teams. Keep imagining a world in which players and executives can just move around within the organization at will, completely without the GM's knowledge or blessing. Keep jerking yourself off to your objectively moronic opinions while everyone else just laughs at how confidently ignorant you are with downvotes. Like I said, god himself could fuckin slap you in the face.... lol
I basically devalue anyone who incessantly critiques army. He’s literally a top 5 gm currently in hockey and has the track record and no showing of losing it as of today. We literally are one of the best teams in the league over a 10 year span. The interesting part is even with the last 2 seasons, we are top 5 in the west over that timeframe. The best teams in the west (not including Vegas until they register 10 seasons) just happens to have us the avs Dallas and the mild included in it. So not only do we play in the toughest division in the west, we are still getting it done.
It’s one thing to critique army here and there, but any fan calling him a bad gm should just give up on sports. It’s clearly not fun for you.
I feel like “boo birds” will shit on them, but not even just “fans” but anyone who knows anything about hockey would never in a gazillion years shit on that man.
That attitude is such a magical attitude. My old boss had that feeling towards myself and went to bat to promote me as “his guy” even though I lacked experience.
Best thing to ever happen to me, and best person I’ve ever worked for. Jump started what was feeling like a completely dead career path. Eternally grateful and hope one day I can pass it on.
[Army: "I know what's best for the franchise with regards to me. I love being a manager. I love it. But sometimes it's not about what's best for me or what I want. When I realized it was best for the St. Louis Blues - a new voice in time - I couldn't find a better person to do it"](https://x.com/jprutherford/status/1801293734312595564?s=46&t=Xn0juU2C4hEaElfmeGb4jQ)
He knows and understands the game at every level and has had success at ever level up to the level of being a GM. He's done outstanding work in sweeden with player scouting and development and creating relations with prospects and their coaches and families. He's well respected amongst the NHL by players and coaches. He knows what it takes to win and build a successful team. Only things now is learning the nuances of being a GM. But half to really most of the battle is the ability to put together a winning team and culture and being able to sustain that. He's shown to have the knowledge as well as the experience of doing that
Not a bad question. We know a lot less about his work than Army's. What we do know is that he was in charge of European player development and there's been some success there. The other thing we know is that Army apparently rates him very highly. Frankly, the second thing is probably good enough for me.
I’m pumped for Steener and what can be - he’s a gamer, looked like a mother F’r to play against, wants to win, a pro’s pro and feel like that’s the guys he’s going to go after.
In two years, Doug will be 62 years old. He steps down from the GM rule into an advisory role and lets 42 year old Steener step into the day-to-day role of GM. Say Doug serves in the advisory role another 3 years. He’s now 65 and able to retire if he wants to having set up the new GM, and more importantly the organIzation, for continued success.
I’ll be the first to admit I’ve been critical of Armstrong over the last year or so, but he’s right on this. Stillman wants to hang his hat on no experience. Dude, literally EVERYBODY starts that way. Get a fucking clue dude.
People like to shit on Doug, but that attitude really sends my respect for him through the roof, and gets me really excited for steen. He may not always be batting 1000, but we’re a solid organization. Even during the low points of this season, even the most-down among us (me), had next year to look forward to.
I find it \*endlessly hilarious\* that people talk so much shit on Doug when, by almost all reasonable standards for GMs, he's basically the cream of the crop. No one bats 1.000, but his average is pretty bonkers high if you ask me. And this take of his only strengthens that opinion.
I mean yeah when you let Pietrangelo walk and sign Krug and Faulk, people are going to criticize you. I think that sentiment is warranted, but a lot of people don’t know how to build a team for the future, either. I don’t know what the right answer is, but I am in the camp that was left scratching its head when Pie left over one contract stipulation.
I file that under the "not batting 1.000" section. There are obvious mistakes, and those are amplified just because people love shitting on everything. Even if you consider those to be really big mistakes, the obvious successes still, at least to me, ***greatly*** outweigh the mistakes. He traded Eric Brewer for the pick that would become Jordan Binnington; Brad Boyes for the pick that would become Joel Edmunson; D'Agostini and a 7th for the pick that would become Niko Mikkola; two nobodies and a pick for Jay Bouwmeester; the Perron trade turned into Ivan Barbashev (and we still got Perron back....twice); The Ryan Miller trade (bad in hindsight, but I certainly remember everyone being stoked about it at the time, and all we lost for it was Chris Stewart, William Carrier, and Jaro Halak....); Carl Gunnarsson & Ville Husso for Roman Polak; **Brian Elliot for the pick that would become Jordan Kyrou;** Reaves for Sunny; **the hilarious fleecing of the Flyers for Brayden Schenn; Ryan O'Reilly** **~~fleecing~~** ~~(edit: not much of a fleecing, but still...)~~(though Tage is very good now, I think I'll take the cup over Tage.....); Faulk trade (say what you will about extending him, but the trade itself was pretty damned good); **the Buchnevich fleecing** for Sammy Blais and a 2nd rounder; The haul for Tarasenko, Mikkola, and O'Reilly... I find it ridiculous to look only at the glaring mistakes and forget the myriad moves that straight up won us a cup (possibly two if COVID didn't fuck everything up everywhere....), and I think put us in pretty decent shape moving forward.
I agree with you, I’m merely stating that that move was very poignant in Blues history. One point I disagree — COVID has to be treated as a constant because every team went through COVID. Sure, you could argue that different schedules lead to different populations mixing influencing the chance of contracting the virus, but that would be pretty exhausting.
No doubt. And for sure - I just know that like half the team actually got COVID during the break - that coupled with the previous year's exhausting run, plus the mental side of having to shut everything down and somehow restart it at the same level of intensity all add up to devastation of what many people felt was a legit cup contender for the 2nd consecutive year. Not an excuse, just a bummer of reality.
There's a lot of whiffs you're missing. For every "hit" you're trying to mention (Ryan Miller didn't want to come here and many fans here knew that) I can find just as many, actually more misses. Army dismantled a cup team in a terrible way and didn't have any clear cut direction until it blew up in his face. To his very fortunate luck or whatever you want to call it with the help of a great staff in place even after losing Bill who was our scouting mastermind, we seem to have a bright future with the offense and goaltending. Defense is still up in the air. Theo looks very promising one year post draft but still has developing to do. Peru we all know has a bright future if he can just stay healthy. But that's two guys. There's a lot to straighten out. Most importantly actually building a complimentary defense room which he didn't do with the current group. Lets also not forget how the cup year went that absolutely blew up in Army's face. We had to get Binner back off loan taking a hope and prayer stab at that because Allen who it had been glaringly obvious for multiple seasons prior couldn't be a true number one, was foolishly given the reigns to be the clear cut number 1. And then Larry Robinson being gracious enough to agree to come down from the press box and back behind the bench again for the first time in over a decade to straighten out the defense. Then the rest fell into place. That's just dumb luck that went our way. Not competent thought out planning and action. Army royally fucked up a cup team in dallas too. One of the most stacked defenses in history and just started messing that up and had a short tenure there because of it, only lasting 3 years. People on here foolishly think Army is just this insanely great GM. For all the wins he has, I bet Brisebois passes him and will have more cups and deeper playoff runs and overall more success while being GMs at the same time. I can point out Rutherford of the Pens before he finally stepped down and what he did in his stretch which far surpasses Army. I can name the Canes Waddel who had WAY bigger constraints to work with due to ownership and how he built a long sustaining successful team, albeit coming up short, but again a way less market than we have here and they've been a premier team for over the last 5 years now. What Sakic has done with the Avs. What McCrimmon has done with Vegas in it's short existence. Point is, Army has better competitors than him. And that's a very true and factual statement when you actually deep dive into the facts.
Taking this tome from “bouwistrash” with a grain of salt.
I particularly love that he argues that Binnington (that Army drafted...) is really the reason we won a cup, and that had nothing to do with Army. And that Larry Robinson (who Army hired) was really the brains behind the cup win. Keeps talking about "diving into the facts" 🤣🤣
Was Binner the projected starter at any point before finally making him the starter? Was Larry Robinson hired as a coach? I particularly love you're insanely flawed logic
Prove me wrong then
Tiresome take, he is a terrible GM and the cup was a fluke.....yawn. Say what you will about that Dallas team, but you are leaving out the fact that it wasn't dismantled because of bad personnel decisions. The NHL launched the salary cap after the 04-05 season and plenty of teams had to make money moves rather than player moves. The Era of cash rich super teams was over. In fact you could pretty easily argue his drafting ability was the one thing that gave that team any life for years afterwards. Other than his record as a GM speaking for itself, hockey Canada keeps picking the man for a reason. His drafting abilities especially considering where the team typically drafts and assest management are top notch, regardless of how revisionist you choose to be about it. He is hands down the best GM the team has ever had and we will look back on his tenure and the success that came with it and miss it mightily in the future.
Oh I'm very aware of the salary cap post lockout. Guess you forget he took over prior to the lockout. So good try there. Actually his drafting wasn't that great at all for dallas. Dallas hit a big decline post cup. Not to the degree we had post lockout, but a significant decline. As far as our drafting, Bill Armstrong is HEAVILY credited as the mastermind of that while he was here and why Utah will very likely be a pretty competitive team in the near future. There's plenty of articles you can easily go look up on Bill. Army's asset management isn't top notch lol. Hence the for every hit I can name as many and likely more whiffs. Tiresome ignorance as I always see on here. Yawn
So, a bunch of GMs, who had to have the worst team in the league for a couple of seasons in order to get generational players, are better than Armstrong? Idk, I'll take consistent success in place of tanking for a generational player.
Brisebois wasn't the GM when Stammer and Kuch were drafted but good try. At what point has Vegas ever tanked? Who is generational on the canes? But hey go off man
When did the Canes win a Cup? How long is Vegas' success sustained? The fact that anyone on Reddit thinks they have a better grasp on anything in the NHL at a greater level than a dude who has spent over a decade at the highest position building a Cup winning team is laughable. But hey, go off man.
Revert back to where I address the Canes situation having way more constraints to deal with than we do. And so far Vegas is going 7 years strong and won a cup in 6 with two trips there already and 3 conference finals. While dealing with a lot of injuries. You can say what you want about their cap circumvention, but they're not the only team to do it and it's not illegal to do. So we can do this all day. Guess everyone on here forgets Army was on the hot seat when we won the cup. But hey go off man.
Lol this fuckin guy again....
Prove me wrong then
No. You're the kind of person that could be persuaded from your shit take if god, himself, came down from the heavens, slapped you in the face, and told you you were wrong. I've watched multiple people provide ample support to refute your nonsensical garbage - me included - and they might as well be arguing with a particularly stubborn rock. You can't even escape the failed logic *of your own argument*. lol....
lmfao no people provide bull shit like yourself in your emotionally driven subjectiveness. i also back my shit up. I also, when proven wrong admit that. But you're using a cop out. I literally just listed all factual things that you can look up. I opened the door to you providing facts to refute them. You can't. The thing is too many on this sub are HIGHLY HIGHLY misinformed in their own ignorance and spout off as if they are Elliot Friedman or some inside person. It's extremely obvious of those who've never played the game, or never played it to any significant level, and sure as hell aren't students of the game. So my "stuborness" and "arrogance" is in response of misinformed people that act like they're speaking the gospel and drinking the kool-aide. So either quit your cowardess cop-out response and prove me wrong, or get over yourself
I have literally watched youa outright ignore everything people say in favor of your outright idiotic take. The downvotes tell you what everyone thinks of your "facts", and the replies (not just from this thread....) also do a good job of informing you of why your take is idiotic. You just don't give a fuck. You'd rather act like some sort of victim of groupthink that imagine for even one second that you JUST MIGHT be wrong... You aren't smart, your information is incomplete, and the conclusion you draw from your incomplete information is hilariously stupid. But yeah - keep thinking that Canada OC repeatedly chooses a terrible GM for their Olympic teams. Keep imagining a world in which players and executives can just move around within the organization at will, completely without the GM's knowledge or blessing. Keep jerking yourself off to your objectively moronic opinions while everyone else just laughs at how confidently ignorant you are with downvotes. Like I said, god himself could fuckin slap you in the face.... lol
And the infatuation with ROR believing he was capable of wearing the C
I think he was capable but think Tarasenko was hurt by the decision.
I basically devalue anyone who incessantly critiques army. He’s literally a top 5 gm currently in hockey and has the track record and no showing of losing it as of today. We literally are one of the best teams in the league over a 10 year span. The interesting part is even with the last 2 seasons, we are top 5 in the west over that timeframe. The best teams in the west (not including Vegas until they register 10 seasons) just happens to have us the avs Dallas and the mild included in it. So not only do we play in the toughest division in the west, we are still getting it done. It’s one thing to critique army here and there, but any fan calling him a bad gm should just give up on sports. It’s clearly not fun for you.
I feel like “boo birds” will shit on them, but not even just “fans” but anyone who knows anything about hockey would never in a gazillion years shit on that man.
That attitude is such a magical attitude. My old boss had that feeling towards myself and went to bat to promote me as “his guy” even though I lacked experience. Best thing to ever happen to me, and best person I’ve ever worked for. Jump started what was feeling like a completely dead career path. Eternally grateful and hope one day I can pass it on.
[Army: "I know what's best for the franchise with regards to me. I love being a manager. I love it. But sometimes it's not about what's best for me or what I want. When I realized it was best for the St. Louis Blues - a new voice in time - I couldn't find a better person to do it"](https://x.com/jprutherford/status/1801293734312595564?s=46&t=Xn0juU2C4hEaElfmeGb4jQ)
Believe in Steener.
Ok I'll bite. Why Steener? What does he bring to the table that we think will make him a great GM?
He knows and understands the game at every level and has had success at ever level up to the level of being a GM. He's done outstanding work in sweeden with player scouting and development and creating relations with prospects and their coaches and families. He's well respected amongst the NHL by players and coaches. He knows what it takes to win and build a successful team. Only things now is learning the nuances of being a GM. But half to really most of the battle is the ability to put together a winning team and culture and being able to sustain that. He's shown to have the knowledge as well as the experience of doing that
Awesome! Thanks for the background info!
Not a bad question. We know a lot less about his work than Army's. What we do know is that he was in charge of European player development and there's been some success there. The other thing we know is that Army apparently rates him very highly. Frankly, the second thing is probably good enough for me.
I’m pumped for Steener and what can be - he’s a gamer, looked like a mother F’r to play against, wants to win, a pro’s pro and feel like that’s the guys he’s going to go after.
"don't let the right person leave for the wrong reason". I hope that is a lesson learned over not resigning petro
In two years, Doug will be 62 years old. He steps down from the GM rule into an advisory role and lets 42 year old Steener step into the day-to-day role of GM. Say Doug serves in the advisory role another 3 years. He’s now 65 and able to retire if he wants to having set up the new GM, and more importantly the organIzation, for continued success.
Having a plan leads to stability.
I’ll be the first to admit I’ve been critical of Armstrong over the last year or so, but he’s right on this. Stillman wants to hang his hat on no experience. Dude, literally EVERYBODY starts that way. Get a fucking clue dude.
How often does a GM get to hire a GM?