You don't win by carrying, you win by doing the best thing given your current situation. Assuming your situation is perfect, yes, that's carrying.
You can still win games by having more deaths than kills by doing the right thing even when things went wrong for you personally
Do not look at games as "I need to carry" because that's completely unrealistic
Sometimes dying more is even the right move. I’m not saying feed your ass off, but if you’re behind playing too safe can be bad. If you can apply some pressure and bait the enemies into blowing cooldowns on you before dying or just setting up your team in a fight, that can create winning scenarios. Role dependent for sure.
I was a Jinx ADC in silver about a week ago. I was like 2/6 after getting camped bot lane, but my team was winning everywhere else. We won 3 fights in a row in which I played like a tank and did about 300 combined damage. I was the juicy bait for them to blow 3 ults and my team just walked in and cleaned up. After the second time it happened, I said to my team to watch them do it again. Sure enough, standing right in midlane they walked in and dropped everything on the 2 levels down jinx while my team cruised to victory. We all laughed in the post game lobby about it.
its true, taking the nexus is the most important thing but its more common to win with high kda in low elo because everyone tunnels on it, so it suddenly becomes more reliable for a competent penta killer
combine that with players lack of trading objectives, they think kda is everything but they make it that way
You don't have to carry, and only smurfs climb by consistently carrying. If you were good enough to consistently carry in your elo, then you wouldn't be in that elo. People generally climb by playing at a level a bit better than the average at their elo.
You can carry with pretty much anything, but it's going to look different from champion to champion. People think that they're going to suddenly start climbing by picking the most crazy hyper carry 1v9 champion, but that's not reality. You should focus on champions that you're good at and figure out how to use them most effectively from game to game.
To add to this, small things matter a lot more than most players think. If you get 1 melee minion and your lane opponent misses one, thats a 41 gold swing. That may not seem like a lot, but if it happens 10 times that's 410. One auto attack at level one deals 50 some odd damage, once again, not a lot, but weave 4 or 5 in and suddenly your lane opponent will be in lethal range.
These micro advantages accrue all over the game and the really good players take advantage of every little tiny opportunity they can to get ahead. It's not that they are just way better mechanically, they make good decisions and do the small things just a little better.
>If you get 1 melee minion and your lane opponent misses one, thats a 41 gold swing.
No, they don't lose the gold, it's not doubled.
For less experienced players : be careful, sometimes you are confronted with situations where you have to choose between a minion and trading back. Most of the time, you should trade back. Don't worry about losing gold. Maintaining your lane and gaining exp is the most important part. These 60-100 golds you saved won't help you when you got dove, gave a kill and lost 2 waves worth of gold and exp.
Bruh people on this sub upvote anything. Idk how anyone gets "41 gold swing" when opponent misses a minion. I've heard this narrative before and don't even know where it comes from.
There is no way to make someone "lose" gold. Sure, they may not have a chance to get that minion again. However, if you both got perfect CS till the end, you would be 1 minion worth of gold up. In no way does it translate to "double" gold swing.
Oh, I think it's just a common misunderstanding, I have seen challengers make that mistake then correct themselves. I think it's a more global thing about reddit where people upvote what sounds right rather than what is, and when we're in a subreddit with mostly low elo players learning the game, well, they have the most votes and will probably vote for what sounds true.
The truth itself is often so complicated just for this goddamn game that I can't blame people for that, you know ? Shit happens, it's just important to correct each other from time to time.
I guess it depends on perspective. If you force them off a wave or apply enough pressure to make them miss CS, you are doing the league equivalent of denying gold.
Laning isn't zero sum, so that perception is inaccurate but I get where they are coming from. Its still wrong but I get it.
On another note, a zero-sum economy for a MOBA is kind interesting...
The only thing the double gold applies to is jungle camps, because when you steal camps, you still have your own camps available. So if I steal your group, and then go do a full clear, you are -1 gromp and I am +1 gromp
Still doesn't quite work like that. You are just +1 gromp. I still haven't "lost" experience, just missed an opportunity to get some. Also, you're assuming the jungle paths that way, and misses the camp.
In LoL there is literally no way for you to make me lose exp or gold. It's impossible. I am not down 1 gromp worth of exp because you took it, I just simply don't get that exp. There is a difference.
But I do agree, it's more relevant taking jungle camps but I don't agree enemy camps are "worth double" as your comment suggests.
Yeah, worth double isn't exactly the best way to put it. But if both junglers perform a full clear, but I steal a camp, I end up with full jungle plus 1 camp, you end up with full jungle minus 1 camp. Where if I prevent you from killing a minion, you end up with full wave minus 1 minion, I end up with full wave. I guess it's the difference between denying gold and stealing gold to phrase it better
I think the problem is people are interchanging 'losing' and 'being behind'. If I take your gromp, you don't 'lose' any xp, because it's not like your xp is decreasing. However you are now 1 gromp 'behind' me, which is where I think people are getting confused.
But also, after I clear my jungle, you are 2 gromps behind me. The other thing to think about is the time it takes. What are you doing while I'm taking your camps? If I'm killing your gromp, and you gank bot lane and get a kill and an assist, is it worth it for me? Versus if I hide in a bush, hop out, smite your camp, and run away, different situation. Nothing is ever black and white
Oh yeah for sure, the effect of taking a gromp has a very different impact on a ganking jungler vs a farming jungler that really needs all the camps to scale.
What he means more or less, is that you stopping him from taking a minion technically "gives" you 20g, since that is 20g that he doesnt have, while you taking one gives you 20g.
If the roles where reversed, he'd have 20 and you 0, but now you have 20 and he zero. So that is a 40g difference. Thats more or less what he means, but it doesnt really make sense.
You cant just cut out the sentence man. Are you even trying?
In example A you are 20g up. In example B you are 20g down. 20 -(-20) = 40.
I agree that he writes it badly, but everyone understands what he means. Come on mate, dont be like that.
No, because you don't *lose* money when you miss a CS, you just miss out on extra money. So if both you and your lane opponent have exactly 500 gold, and they miss a melee minion. Now you have 521g while they have 500. They **didn't lose gold by missing the CS, they only failed to get additional gold**.
But how dense can you be. I am just talking about what he meant.
In the other case, HE HAS 521G WHILE YOU HAVE 500G. THATS A 42G SWING.
Like for fucks sake. I give up. You are denser than freaking Tungsten man.
There is nothing you can do to make the enemy "lose" gold or exp. They will not go down a level when you kill them. We can't call it a double swing, when mathematically that's not how it works out.
If you want to show me the math on how it's a double swing - then I will stand corrected.
Nope, denying them doesn't take away their exp. You have a net gain of 100exp and they have a net gain of 0exp. You do not somehow double experience becauase the enemy missed a wave.
The "double swing" only applicable to neutral objective such as baron / drake / jungle camps.Where you get an objective + denying enemy getting it will results in 2x effect of widening / closing the gap between team. Example when you get a drake, your team gain 1k gold where your enemy lose the 1k gold opportunity which convert into 2k gold gap between. It doesnt apply to lane minion like what the above comment stated.
They lost the opportunity, not the gold. The difference is still 1K. But I do see your point, and it makes more sense in your analogy. However, I think it's just generally a bad thing to put in new players heads that some things are "worth double". For example, you might be willing to trade a dragon for waves/a turret. It doesnt mean there was a double swing in gold because of the dragon.
Majority of the community dont understand and probably just copy paste from clickbaits. high elo and pro players are viewing the games in term of opportunity games. It was never about doubling the gold value or something along the line.
I agree, even people saying neutral objectives are a "double swing" are off the mark. It puts a false sense of value to certain objectives or camps that's not good to instill in a new player.
As you said, it's an opportunistic game. Everything should be traded so theoretically as you take one thing, the enemy takes another across the map.
No matter how it's framed, whatever you take only makes you "+1" and nothing can be "-1 to the opponent".
I think that’s the same reason why supports love to use their second visionward and place in in Brazil so they „denied“ you some gold. In reality they lost 150 gold instead of just the 75 from their first ward
I’m not defending the idea, just explaining where I’m sure it comes from.
It likely comes from an assumption that without your intervention, your laner will get all cs and by preventing their taking of one it’s -21 out of the laners potential gold. The dumb part is how they don’t apply the same assumption to themself and then add 20 rather than understanding that within context claiming that cs maintains status quo or 0.
Thanks, this is actually a bit refreshing to hear. It encourages doing your best regardless. I'm currently playing Malzahar, and to my knowledge I should be focusing on waves and locking down carries. So far I'm doing well in terms of gold and level advantage, or at least that's what I think. I'm probably focusing on the wrong things macro-wise which is what led me to ask here about converting leads in the first place, because regardless of how ahead I try to be the opposing team eventually catches up.
I'm not sure if I'm just not participating in fights as much as I should be, or is there just inherent limitations to certain champions.
You probably aren't participating in fights as much as you should be. Learning which fights are good or not is pretty difficult but the best way to learn is just try things and see. Pay attention to where the enemy team is on the map and try to be there when an advantaged fight is going to happen.
Are there some useful tips or like signs that players should look out for aside from current enemy location? Like when enemies aren't in vision, but Baron and Dragon are both down? During these moments I'm not sure whether I should group or farm.
If you can't see enemies then the most important thing to look at is wavestate. And also your teammate's positions. You know your adc wants to farm mid. Your top wants to farm a side and you want to farm a side. The enemy team is the same way. So what lanes are they moving towards? Also where is your jungler? Often the position of your jungler is going to determine where a fight will happen because they have the most flexibility to move and that's where you will have the most numbers. So if your jungler is on the other side of the map as you then maybe you should push the wave and rotate over there. And if they're on the same side of the map then maybe you want to push further and try to bait the enemy team in to a fight.
The reality is, if you are low elo you can't mechanicaly and lack the game sense that allows you to play that way. You will end up being even more inconsistent and frustrated by doing very well one game and feed in the next one.
Source: I'm low elo :)
better off playing sol or kat and just hyper carry for the late game, i like playing early oppressive "go where i want" champs that transition into full tanks late
For context, I've been playing league since the earlier seasons (when Malz still has his first splash art), but I'm very much willing to just pick up a different champ. I'm personally just really enjoying Malz as a character since I started playing. I only really came back because I was interested in looking at League from a technical perspective. My last active play was probably last 2021.
My current issue is whether he as a champion has limited potential in impacting the game, or it's the way that I play that isn't enough. But if the champ really is the problem, I'm actually happy exploring other champs. I did play a lot of others, but not in the same depth as Malz. Maybe Xerath came close, but I stopped playing him for a while.
I wouldn't listen to the guy who said he's too safe to learn on. Every champion is viable (in their preferred role ofc) and has different lessons to teach. I learned the value of prio from Malz. Pin your opponent to their turret for the first scuttle fight and rotate to help your jungler. Pin them to their turret for the first dragon and herald and you'll realize the impact of having the first move in mid. It gives your jungler room to breathe and allows you to drop wards on upcoming objectives. You also get free picks below gold because no one pays attention to number advantages before picking fights. Sure, you don't have Zed's damage in early skirmishes, but you're at the skirmish while he's farming under his turret, so you'll win those early fights more often than not.
He also gives crazy mid-late game side lane wave control. Just touch the wave and walk away. Or sit in a bush and shove the wave out of vision. I frequently sneak turrets by shadowing the wave in side brushes and dropping abilities on them. Unless someone is looking at the map for the .5 seconds you're in vision or pans over to see your voidlings, they'll be surprised when you show up with a wave at their turret. Obviously, it's best to do this with TP available. He's not bad in a duel either, especially with Liandry's and Zhonya's. Lead with basic abilities to chunk them, ult to buy time for your E-W to come off of cooldown, E-W-Q-Zhonya's and anything squishier than a bruiser should be dead by the time you come out of stasis.
He's also valuable for teaching target selection in fights. Just press tab before the fight to identify their carry. I drop all of my basic abilities almost on CD until the fight actually begins. Just hold your ult for the carry and lock them down when they overextend. In most cases you don't even need the extra damage from your basic abilities. The CC is long enough to give your team enough time to melt them. The most free wins are when their divers or assassins get fed.
Thanks, I just found one thing I probably wasn't doing enough with your comment: capitalizing on Malz's wave clear to help jungle secure objectives. I would actively try practicing that next time I'm playing Malz.
I understand what you're saying, but I think the "you have to carry" message is still good for many people to hear. There are a lot of players ESPECIALLY top lane and adc who will get a lead and do nothing with it. They don't leave their lane, they don't push their advantage, they don't create pressure to force the enemy into bad choices etc etc. Then their team runs it and they sit in their lane thinking "I did fine, why does my team always int?"
Those players need to be told they HAVE TO carry or they won't climb even if they are a mechanical god in their own lane.
Telling people to get good is vastly different than telling someone they have to have a carry mindset instead of being a passive observer in their games. It is not even close to the whole solution, but that's obviously not the point of that phrase is it?
Mathematically this is correct…
But I reached high gold after months of playing in bronze. I think I was in bronze for way too long (6 months) despite playing at a high level, due to this passive mindset.
Seems that silver and under (less prominent in gold) players are picking troll setups, 0 game sense of grouping and ending or taking an objective post-kill, etc.
MATHEMATICALLY this should average out and eventually you will get more competent teams than not, but I think there are cases like in blackjack or poker, you can get a real bad beat of 10+ games before you get 3-4 good and you’re just stuck in low bronze hell over and over.
I know this isn’t the case for diamond and master players who can genuinely 1v9 carry, but for gold players - I think some are stuck in bronze/silver for this reason of overpopulation of trolls and idiots in bronze
>People generally climb by playing at a level a bit better than the average at their elo.
No, it's the exact opposite. In order to climb a rank in league, being only a bit better isn't enough, atleast in the lower 80 % of League's playerbase, if you are a platinum level player in gold elo with a fucked mmr, to climb to plat, you've got to play like a diamond player. This is how the system is designed. I've seen it a million times, people start playing league, get placed in silver/bronze, but it doesn't matter they get better, because the system is shit, they make a fresh account, get placed in gold and live there happily ever after. After a certain point when the system puts you in one of it's boxes, to get out you need to exert a huge amount of effort.
You can’t just be slightly better than your Elo if your teammates are significantly worse. You are guaranteed to lose if you can’t carry in that case. Like sure I can be slightly better than my elo but it doesn’t matter if my mid is 0-7 at 8mins
nah the amount of smurfs and deranking accounts skews this completely
then you get a real match with tilted players or a bad comp, the stars rarely align for a close well earned match
its almost always a stomp for the wrong reasons or no one knows how to end or theyre choosing not to
You are making a mistake of over-focusing on the outcome of single games. That single game just doesn't really matter over the course of a 500+ game season.
If you are only "slightly better" than your current ELO, it is going to take very many more games the climb, simply because you will have so many "coinflip" games.
It is where the simple "if you never feed then the other team is more likely to have a feeder" statement comes in.
Having a team mate go 0/7 is very frustrating in the moment, but you must think of climbing the ladder as a marathon.
Does how quickly you take 1 step *really* influence your final time in a marathon so much?
You should be building every possible advantage for yourself in every game, so that you can carry the carryable games (and not be an anchor in the games that some teammate will carry).
You still have to accept that unless you're smurfing you are going to lose a significant fraction of your games regardless of if you do well personally.
i do but its sad that i get matched with players that barely know how to play + platinum smurfs that have no business in their mmr
bronze iv again
win 70% of my lanes, (cs, kda, pressure)
contest objectives when its smart, trade something else when its not
play around smarter teammates, keep a positive attitude, ping helpful info
play back with fed enemy, claim / help get shutdowns if possible
dont over extend, split push lanes, rot enemy jung camps, vision everywhere
40% wr lately, team either wants to ff early or theres some deflated duo running the game down
must've reported over 10 deranking bot accounts in the last 2 days alone
Climbing works the same way for normal players but slower. You eventually learn to avoid mistakes that kept you at your current elo allowing to constantly abuse it against the enemy who hasn’t learned that yet. Which usually results in your being able to carry if you can play out that new learned thing. It’s not even a lot that’s needed. Simple wave management can already feel like you are faker for the enemy once you know how to use it. And being consistent at that you will climb. You won’t be 20/0 every game because you aren’t a diamond level duellist yet, but 0/0 and a 50-100cs lead is still a win lane if you play something that allows for scaling. Next thing you could be learning is better map awareness. Punish Katarina players or any other roam champion by constantly shoving. Follow if you know the matchup. Actually ping your team back. Move to the action if your jungler needs help on your own. All of those things aren’t hard but make you climb if you invest the time to learn them
how do we diagnose our weak area's? i feel like im super good but i obviously suck, how do i diagnose my weak area's that are stopping me above average area's from letting me climb?
Good example. If you are doing poorly and you get the top lane inhibitor tower and the inhibitor and gain 3 levels while you lose the outer tower in mid that is probably the best use of your champion that game.
These questions need to be asked through the lens of the champion you’re playing. It also varies game to game based on the win conditions and team compositions. To help you shake up the way you are thinking about this.. imagine an Ivern jungle securing every dragon, getting baron, then destroying the nexus. The Iverns end score line is 1/1/18. I’d say that’s a nice performance potentially being the most impactful player.
Also I like this take, particularly the part where you say "most impactful". It doesn't necessarily force the idea winning, but becoming actually useful to your team regardless of game state.
From a lens of a Malzahar and Swain player, what would probably be the indication that you're providing a good impact on the game? Malzahar mid, and Swain as mid and support.
What's your job as malzahar?
To lock down a priority target or get a pick before an objective. Are you consistently in a position to do that?
What's Swains job as a midlaner?
This is what I assume Malzahar's goal is, plus passively catching/pushing up waves, so this is what I constantly do with him. But I was unsure about it.
As for Swain, I'm still pretty new to him. I've been playing him for a while, and as of now I see him as an unkillable teamfight beast, and a punishing catcher. Of course, I'm open for corrections. Again, I'm fairly new to him and I haven't really figured out his whole identity as a champ yet.
Passively catching waves is okay but if you're feeling like the enemy team is overtaking you then it probably means you need to be fighting with your team more. If you're strong then your team needs you in fights.
This is just a self fulfilling prophecy that ruins every elo and forces everyone to try to carry because everyone else is also trying to carry.
When you get the odd game where you have a nice team comp and your team just picks a bunch of easy champs and simply does their job and nothing more, you see how much more effective that is than 5 people all trying to 1v9.
It’s extremely rare to lose a game where you have tank top, utility mid and enchanter support with everyone trying to their job instead of the tank trying to 1v1 split and enchanter going for Hylissang engages.
You’ll also find at lower elos that just doing your job is actually enough as long as you’re not an assassin (killing the ADC is rarely enough because their bruiser is 1 v 3 buttfucking your backline and can 1v1 you with ease as well)
God, the best games are where people choose flexible, reliable champs and, most importantly, keep their cool and support one another. Such incredible wins have come from games like that. I'd send them fucking gift baskets and roses if I could.
For context I currently use Malzahar, and I mostly focus on locking down priority targets in teamfights, applying pressure through bouncing Es, and catching/pushing up waves to maintain priority. So far I feel like what I'm doing isn't enough since our team gets stomped most of the time. Now I'm not sure if it's because I should be doing more or I'm wrong for doing what I'm currently doing, or it is what it is. I suspect though that it may be a little bit of both.
What you’re doing wrong is probably not being there ahead of fights or being in fights that you shouldn’t be in.
The enemy diver/assassin can’t really do their job when you’re there but if they are always somehow able to get kills and you’re in a sidelane you’re doing something wrong
Sounds like something I need to work on. It's true I often find myself late for fights. Not even sure at times whether the correct choice is to group or farm. Thanks
Not all the time. Sometimes you need to be aware you're playing weak side. You have to know how to be carried and play accordingly. Almost every game your team will have a losing lane. And sometimes that lane is your lane.
You know what made me climb as an adc to Gold while having my mmr destroyed by trying to get a friends of Mine out of Bronze?
I picked a champ i am good at (Varus in this example) played my lane Phase with my brain trying Not to Die did Not take any fight when the enemy laner suddenly started to get aggressive. Looked at the map and helped my jungler when i saw him in a pinch. I basically played for my Team. And suddenly my winrate skyrocked. At certain days when i just got in and played like two games in the mourning my winrate was close to 99%.
I think a wordy but more accurate version is:
"You need to be the reason your team wins **more often than an average player in your role in your current rank**."
And if you think that's vague, you're right. You can do this in a bunch of different ways. Teamfight better, rotate better, CS better. It doesn't matter what it is that you're doing exactly, as long as you're doing something that causes you to win more often.
For example if you're a Janna player yes you're not going to "carry" in the traditional sense and get 15 kills. But you need to ask yourself "why should I be climbing? What do I do better than other (insert rank) Janna players?"
This is for climbing quickly and consistently. The only time you need to do this is when you are 'stuck' in a lower elo, and only to get out of that elo.
Carrying literally just means using your lead to win the game, by doing everything. Dealing damage, macroing your teams, csing and taking towers well, ect. It does change from champ to champ and role to role, but literally every champ in every role can carry.
Everyone who plays league will sit here and always try to find this golden answer for years and years when every single game and situation is completely different. This game is very complicated where even one play changes the whole game outcome. If you're playing a carry champ it sure helps to carry. If you're playing a scaling champ it's probably beneficial to your team if you don't die early. If you're playing an early game champ like pantheon is probably good if you get like 5 kills by 10 mins. These all will lead to more wins even if at times you lose.
It's important to understand your wincon but also be conscious of what your enemy wants to do or is trying to do. If you deny that you will win the head to head. Say you're playing malzahar against pantheon. U know he wants to all in you as often as possible so u walk up just enough to get your e on them and back off. But he always wants to roam so you might want to get to to make sure you take to so u can constantly keep him in lane or make him lose farm and exp by roaming. That's just one of 1000000 examples
Its quite the opposite, all you have to do is less mistakes and take time windows where no counterplay is allowed, as small as they might be.
That basically is "carrying"
There are a few things to keep in mind every game. Always do your best to win lane safely l, which is easy to focus on first, then put pressure on the map through a few things like split pushing or focusing on objs and getting shutdowns. These things depend on your skill level compared to the whole games skill level and to see where you are at in terms of skill, are you above the average winrate in your current ranked position? Are your stats per game above or below your preferred goal (if not then set a benchmark where you are lacking like warding, damage or overall team participation) and are you consistently earning enough KDA to be the best or above average player in games. That's all you have to do in order to climb and carrying the team requires you to be efficient with your decisions and understanding your limits as a strong player so don't stress out too much, just do your best to maintain a high standard for yourself and you have to have faith that your hard work is paying off as you improve.
You don’t win by carrying, you only when by carrying when it’s your opportunity to do the carrying.
You win by not being a determinant to your team, and by consistently having a positive impact. A positive impact and carrying are far different things.
A 1 kill and 15-30 cs lead post laning phase a game is more than adequate.
Not giving up plates, or kills for free is adequate.
There are 9 others players in the game. Most games one player has the largest impact and chances of that being you most games are slim, so the best way and most effective way to win and to climb, is by being a consistent in every game, win your lane even by a small margin, don’t take unnecessary deaths, and show up on the map when and where you should, and play to your individual champions win con, and more importantly the over all teams win con.
My general principle as a toplaner is pretty much always heading toplane until I have atleast gotten first tower. After that, I/m usually aiming for T2, but now taking enemy jungle camps, getting vision topside.
I try not to aimlessly roam without ensuring my waves are fully pushed in, otherwise the enemy I was once dominating will have a chance to get back into the game.
When I have big CDs like flash, I may look to even proxy one wave top, recall and head to the opposite sidelane to make a play, which ensures I don't lose any CS.
I play Riven if that makes any difference!
Carry potential can be so many things depending on the role you are playing, champion, making calls, giving pings etc. It also varies by game state, and when in the game it is. Something as simple as accurately tracking the enemy jungler(from any role) and pinging to back off as they head to a lane can "carry" the last game I played, was against a hec jungle and knowing he started bot side, I pinged the whole top river when I new he would be finishing his full clear, top lane Gwen started playing a little more passive and about 7 seconds later Hec shows up to gank her, she survived barely but would have been fb if she didn't react a bit. Mid lane was a Talon Zed who just fisted each other all game, but after that one ping that saved a death both top and bot lane reacted to every one of mine, effectively shutting down Hecarims ganking advantage over me(Shyvana) in addition any time I pinged for objectives they came, and we had soul at like 23 minutes in a game that kill wise was close enough it shouldn't have been possible(I'm sure we had a pretty large gold lead as we got every single objective to that point)
Sure, go into every game with the intention that you are going to hard-carry your team to victory. That said, it's not going to happen that often. Yes, you will have games where you are hard-carrying your team. You are also going to have games where your team is hard-carrying *you*, and most games will fall somewhere in-between.
In practice, you will do whatever you need to do in order to ensure you win. If that means you end up carrying, great, but more often it means figuring out how to gain many small advantages so that your team as a whole does better than the other team. Sometimes it means making sure you simply don't feed your lane. Sometimes it means figuring out who on your team is doing well and playing around them to let *them* carry.
Doing well means expanding the gap when you are winning, but it also means narrowing the gap when you are losing. And the way you do that is usually through seizing advantages whenever they present themself, no matter how small. And the key word there is "small" - many players think games are turned around by a clutch play or a key teamfight or a stolen baron, but in reality, the far more reliable way to narrow the gap is to pick up a minion here, a jungle camp there, and a poke from a safe distance. Many small advantages add up to a big one, and that is how top teams climb their way up from a deficit far more often than waiting for the enemy team to botch an engage or for their carry to overextend.
Not every game is going to be the best game you ever played. You just need to do your best, whether your best is being a 1v9 force of nature or trying as hard as you can to be as carriable as possible - and sometimes, unfortunately, even when your best simply means losing with dignity and with lessons learned.
The moment I stopped to think that I need to carry, I went from gold to diamond. You just need to be better than average, be consistent, and have good fundamentals. When you start working on fundamentals, you realize how many players have absolutely no understanding of trading, wave management, vision control, positioning etc
My favorite matchups are the ones who don't have awareness regarding wave management and trades during laning phase. But that's where I currently am, to not play worse than my opponent but not necessarily play better than past me. I am practicing consistency nonetheless, at least with the champs I know/actively learning.
If you are doing well and you are a early game carry you need to help your late game carry if they are not. The worse thing to do if you are fed is keep taking food out of your ADC's mouth. So when you go to the other lane and get a kill don't take all the farm too. Most early game champs are still relevant in mid game but if you end up going into late game you need to be sure your team is up to the task.
Objectives are important but know when to go for them and when to let it go. If you get dragon for instance and your team wipes and your enemy ends up with all that gold from kill and then goes to lane for 20 secs. and crashes all 3 minion waves into your towers maybe you should have let that one go.
Definitely not. I started climbing heavily by shifting to play around whoever our win condition is each game. I'm 0-2 in lane but a side lane is winning? Time to play like a bitch and just avoid dying so they can carry. Learning to get carried is a skill and will take you a lot further than you think.
Most people in League coinflip their games. Some games they do really good and some games they get stomped. That’s why they don’t climb. If you are consistent every single game then you will climb. There is no special champion that will get you higher ranked either. Just find and play 1-2 champions and learn how to play them well. A lot of smurfs don’t even do anything that fancy to carry in lower elos, all they do is farm good, punish the enemy’s mistakes and limit the amount of mistakes they make. They also understand wave management and fundamentals which I recommend looking up guides on youtube for. It doesn’t matter what role you play either, those things are still important to know.
wanna know what i do, go brand mid int enemy mid and jg go 0-5 give my adc or jg the shutdown gold give adc all the waves and cs support your team by inting to bait fights where ever possible if i get a kill i chill and carry teamfights with liandry and rylais powerspike.
You don't win by carrying, you win by doing the best thing given your current situation. Assuming your situation is perfect, yes, that's carrying. You can still win games by having more deaths than kills by doing the right thing even when things went wrong for you personally Do not look at games as "I need to carry" because that's completely unrealistic
Sometimes dying more is even the right move. I’m not saying feed your ass off, but if you’re behind playing too safe can be bad. If you can apply some pressure and bait the enemies into blowing cooldowns on you before dying or just setting up your team in a fight, that can create winning scenarios. Role dependent for sure.
I was a Jinx ADC in silver about a week ago. I was like 2/6 after getting camped bot lane, but my team was winning everywhere else. We won 3 fights in a row in which I played like a tank and did about 300 combined damage. I was the juicy bait for them to blow 3 ults and my team just walked in and cleaned up. After the second time it happened, I said to my team to watch them do it again. Sure enough, standing right in midlane they walked in and dropped everything on the 2 levels down jinx while my team cruised to victory. We all laughed in the post game lobby about it.
its true, taking the nexus is the most important thing but its more common to win with high kda in low elo because everyone tunnels on it, so it suddenly becomes more reliable for a competent penta killer combine that with players lack of trading objectives, they think kda is everything but they make it that way
You don't have to carry, and only smurfs climb by consistently carrying. If you were good enough to consistently carry in your elo, then you wouldn't be in that elo. People generally climb by playing at a level a bit better than the average at their elo. You can carry with pretty much anything, but it's going to look different from champion to champion. People think that they're going to suddenly start climbing by picking the most crazy hyper carry 1v9 champion, but that's not reality. You should focus on champions that you're good at and figure out how to use them most effectively from game to game.
To add to this, small things matter a lot more than most players think. If you get 1 melee minion and your lane opponent misses one, thats a 41 gold swing. That may not seem like a lot, but if it happens 10 times that's 410. One auto attack at level one deals 50 some odd damage, once again, not a lot, but weave 4 or 5 in and suddenly your lane opponent will be in lethal range. These micro advantages accrue all over the game and the really good players take advantage of every little tiny opportunity they can to get ahead. It's not that they are just way better mechanically, they make good decisions and do the small things just a little better.
>If you get 1 melee minion and your lane opponent misses one, thats a 41 gold swing. No, they don't lose the gold, it's not doubled. For less experienced players : be careful, sometimes you are confronted with situations where you have to choose between a minion and trading back. Most of the time, you should trade back. Don't worry about losing gold. Maintaining your lane and gaining exp is the most important part. These 60-100 golds you saved won't help you when you got dove, gave a kill and lost 2 waves worth of gold and exp.
Bruh people on this sub upvote anything. Idk how anyone gets "41 gold swing" when opponent misses a minion. I've heard this narrative before and don't even know where it comes from. There is no way to make someone "lose" gold. Sure, they may not have a chance to get that minion again. However, if you both got perfect CS till the end, you would be 1 minion worth of gold up. In no way does it translate to "double" gold swing.
Oh, I think it's just a common misunderstanding, I have seen challengers make that mistake then correct themselves. I think it's a more global thing about reddit where people upvote what sounds right rather than what is, and when we're in a subreddit with mostly low elo players learning the game, well, they have the most votes and will probably vote for what sounds true. The truth itself is often so complicated just for this goddamn game that I can't blame people for that, you know ? Shit happens, it's just important to correct each other from time to time.
I guess it depends on perspective. If you force them off a wave or apply enough pressure to make them miss CS, you are doing the league equivalent of denying gold. Laning isn't zero sum, so that perception is inaccurate but I get where they are coming from. Its still wrong but I get it. On another note, a zero-sum economy for a MOBA is kind interesting...
The only thing the double gold applies to is jungle camps, because when you steal camps, you still have your own camps available. So if I steal your group, and then go do a full clear, you are -1 gromp and I am +1 gromp
Still doesn't quite work like that. You are just +1 gromp. I still haven't "lost" experience, just missed an opportunity to get some. Also, you're assuming the jungle paths that way, and misses the camp. In LoL there is literally no way for you to make me lose exp or gold. It's impossible. I am not down 1 gromp worth of exp because you took it, I just simply don't get that exp. There is a difference. But I do agree, it's more relevant taking jungle camps but I don't agree enemy camps are "worth double" as your comment suggests.
Yeah, worth double isn't exactly the best way to put it. But if both junglers perform a full clear, but I steal a camp, I end up with full jungle plus 1 camp, you end up with full jungle minus 1 camp. Where if I prevent you from killing a minion, you end up with full wave minus 1 minion, I end up with full wave. I guess it's the difference between denying gold and stealing gold to phrase it better
I think the problem is people are interchanging 'losing' and 'being behind'. If I take your gromp, you don't 'lose' any xp, because it's not like your xp is decreasing. However you are now 1 gromp 'behind' me, which is where I think people are getting confused.
But also, after I clear my jungle, you are 2 gromps behind me. The other thing to think about is the time it takes. What are you doing while I'm taking your camps? If I'm killing your gromp, and you gank bot lane and get a kill and an assist, is it worth it for me? Versus if I hide in a bush, hop out, smite your camp, and run away, different situation. Nothing is ever black and white
Oh yeah for sure, the effect of taking a gromp has a very different impact on a ganking jungler vs a farming jungler that really needs all the camps to scale.
What he means more or less, is that you stopping him from taking a minion technically "gives" you 20g, since that is 20g that he doesnt have, while you taking one gives you 20g. If the roles where reversed, he'd have 20 and you 0, but now you have 20 and he zero. So that is a 40g difference. Thats more or less what he means, but it doesnt really make sense.
>but now you have 20 and he zero. So that is a 40g difference. 20-0=40 r/theydidthemathwrong
You cant just cut out the sentence man. Are you even trying? In example A you are 20g up. In example B you are 20g down. 20 -(-20) = 40. I agree that he writes it badly, but everyone understands what he means. Come on mate, dont be like that.
No, because you don't *lose* money when you miss a CS, you just miss out on extra money. So if both you and your lane opponent have exactly 500 gold, and they miss a melee minion. Now you have 521g while they have 500. They **didn't lose gold by missing the CS, they only failed to get additional gold**.
But how dense can you be. I am just talking about what he meant. In the other case, HE HAS 521G WHILE YOU HAVE 500G. THATS A 42G SWING. Like for fucks sake. I give up. You are denser than freaking Tungsten man.
I think it applies to xp when you kill your opponent but not gold.
There is nothing you can do to make the enemy "lose" gold or exp. They will not go down a level when you kill them. We can't call it a double swing, when mathematically that's not how it works out. If you want to show me the math on how it's a double swing - then I will stand corrected.
lets say wave is 100xp. If you are up a wave and deny them a wave then you are 200xp ahead of them.
You are not. You both start at 0 xp. You take the wave xp, they do not. Now you have 100xp, they have 0xp. 100xp difference.
Nope, denying them doesn't take away their exp. You have a net gain of 100exp and they have a net gain of 0exp. You do not somehow double experience becauase the enemy missed a wave.
ok
The "double swing" only applicable to neutral objective such as baron / drake / jungle camps.Where you get an objective + denying enemy getting it will results in 2x effect of widening / closing the gap between team. Example when you get a drake, your team gain 1k gold where your enemy lose the 1k gold opportunity which convert into 2k gold gap between. It doesnt apply to lane minion like what the above comment stated.
They lost the opportunity, not the gold. The difference is still 1K. But I do see your point, and it makes more sense in your analogy. However, I think it's just generally a bad thing to put in new players heads that some things are "worth double". For example, you might be willing to trade a dragon for waves/a turret. It doesnt mean there was a double swing in gold because of the dragon.
Majority of the community dont understand and probably just copy paste from clickbaits. high elo and pro players are viewing the games in term of opportunity games. It was never about doubling the gold value or something along the line.
I agree, even people saying neutral objectives are a "double swing" are off the mark. It puts a false sense of value to certain objectives or camps that's not good to instill in a new player. As you said, it's an opportunistic game. Everything should be traded so theoretically as you take one thing, the enemy takes another across the map. No matter how it's framed, whatever you take only makes you "+1" and nothing can be "-1 to the opponent".
Somehow it made me think of old Gp who could kill his own minions
I think that’s the same reason why supports love to use their second visionward and place in in Brazil so they „denied“ you some gold. In reality they lost 150 gold instead of just the 75 from their first ward
I’m not defending the idea, just explaining where I’m sure it comes from. It likely comes from an assumption that without your intervention, your laner will get all cs and by preventing their taking of one it’s -21 out of the laners potential gold. The dumb part is how they don’t apply the same assumption to themself and then add 20 rather than understanding that within context claiming that cs maintains status quo or 0.
Thanks, this is actually a bit refreshing to hear. It encourages doing your best regardless. I'm currently playing Malzahar, and to my knowledge I should be focusing on waves and locking down carries. So far I'm doing well in terms of gold and level advantage, or at least that's what I think. I'm probably focusing on the wrong things macro-wise which is what led me to ask here about converting leads in the first place, because regardless of how ahead I try to be the opposing team eventually catches up. I'm not sure if I'm just not participating in fights as much as I should be, or is there just inherent limitations to certain champions.
You probably aren't participating in fights as much as you should be. Learning which fights are good or not is pretty difficult but the best way to learn is just try things and see. Pay attention to where the enemy team is on the map and try to be there when an advantaged fight is going to happen.
Are there some useful tips or like signs that players should look out for aside from current enemy location? Like when enemies aren't in vision, but Baron and Dragon are both down? During these moments I'm not sure whether I should group or farm.
If you can't see enemies then the most important thing to look at is wavestate. And also your teammate's positions. You know your adc wants to farm mid. Your top wants to farm a side and you want to farm a side. The enemy team is the same way. So what lanes are they moving towards? Also where is your jungler? Often the position of your jungler is going to determine where a fight will happen because they have the most flexibility to move and that's where you will have the most numbers. So if your jungler is on the other side of the map as you then maybe you should push the wave and rotate over there. And if they're on the same side of the map then maybe you want to push further and try to bait the enemy team in to a fight.
Thanks, this is plentiful advice.
Certain champions are restricted to types of play. Malz is a good split pusher but you have to get your vision up since you're easy ganks.
best way to carry and climb low elo is just play super aggressive early game champs and be greedy constant pressure and aggression
The reality is, if you are low elo you can't mechanicaly and lack the game sense that allows you to play that way. You will end up being even more inconsistent and frustrated by doing very well one game and feed in the next one. Source: I'm low elo :)
better off playing sol or kat and just hyper carry for the late game, i like playing early oppressive "go where i want" champs that transition into full tanks late
Don't play malza, he's too safe and thus horrible for learning the game
For context, I've been playing league since the earlier seasons (when Malz still has his first splash art), but I'm very much willing to just pick up a different champ. I'm personally just really enjoying Malz as a character since I started playing. I only really came back because I was interested in looking at League from a technical perspective. My last active play was probably last 2021. My current issue is whether he as a champion has limited potential in impacting the game, or it's the way that I play that isn't enough. But if the champ really is the problem, I'm actually happy exploring other champs. I did play a lot of others, but not in the same depth as Malz. Maybe Xerath came close, but I stopped playing him for a while.
I wouldn't listen to the guy who said he's too safe to learn on. Every champion is viable (in their preferred role ofc) and has different lessons to teach. I learned the value of prio from Malz. Pin your opponent to their turret for the first scuttle fight and rotate to help your jungler. Pin them to their turret for the first dragon and herald and you'll realize the impact of having the first move in mid. It gives your jungler room to breathe and allows you to drop wards on upcoming objectives. You also get free picks below gold because no one pays attention to number advantages before picking fights. Sure, you don't have Zed's damage in early skirmishes, but you're at the skirmish while he's farming under his turret, so you'll win those early fights more often than not. He also gives crazy mid-late game side lane wave control. Just touch the wave and walk away. Or sit in a bush and shove the wave out of vision. I frequently sneak turrets by shadowing the wave in side brushes and dropping abilities on them. Unless someone is looking at the map for the .5 seconds you're in vision or pans over to see your voidlings, they'll be surprised when you show up with a wave at their turret. Obviously, it's best to do this with TP available. He's not bad in a duel either, especially with Liandry's and Zhonya's. Lead with basic abilities to chunk them, ult to buy time for your E-W to come off of cooldown, E-W-Q-Zhonya's and anything squishier than a bruiser should be dead by the time you come out of stasis. He's also valuable for teaching target selection in fights. Just press tab before the fight to identify their carry. I drop all of my basic abilities almost on CD until the fight actually begins. Just hold your ult for the carry and lock them down when they overextend. In most cases you don't even need the extra damage from your basic abilities. The CC is long enough to give your team enough time to melt them. The most free wins are when their divers or assassins get fed.
Thanks, I just found one thing I probably wasn't doing enough with your comment: capitalizing on Malz's wave clear to help jungle secure objectives. I would actively try practicing that next time I'm playing Malz.
I understand what you're saying, but I think the "you have to carry" message is still good for many people to hear. There are a lot of players ESPECIALLY top lane and adc who will get a lead and do nothing with it. They don't leave their lane, they don't push their advantage, they don't create pressure to force the enemy into bad choices etc etc. Then their team runs it and they sit in their lane thinking "I did fine, why does my team always int?" Those players need to be told they HAVE TO carry or they won't climb even if they are a mechanical god in their own lane.
Or you could tell them *what* they actually need to do instead of "carry" which is roughly as useful advice as "get good".
Telling people to get good is vastly different than telling someone they have to have a carry mindset instead of being a passive observer in their games. It is not even close to the whole solution, but that's obviously not the point of that phrase is it?
Mathematically this is correct… But I reached high gold after months of playing in bronze. I think I was in bronze for way too long (6 months) despite playing at a high level, due to this passive mindset. Seems that silver and under (less prominent in gold) players are picking troll setups, 0 game sense of grouping and ending or taking an objective post-kill, etc. MATHEMATICALLY this should average out and eventually you will get more competent teams than not, but I think there are cases like in blackjack or poker, you can get a real bad beat of 10+ games before you get 3-4 good and you’re just stuck in low bronze hell over and over. I know this isn’t the case for diamond and master players who can genuinely 1v9 carry, but for gold players - I think some are stuck in bronze/silver for this reason of overpopulation of trolls and idiots in bronze
>People generally climb by playing at a level a bit better than the average at their elo. No, it's the exact opposite. In order to climb a rank in league, being only a bit better isn't enough, atleast in the lower 80 % of League's playerbase, if you are a platinum level player in gold elo with a fucked mmr, to climb to plat, you've got to play like a diamond player. This is how the system is designed. I've seen it a million times, people start playing league, get placed in silver/bronze, but it doesn't matter they get better, because the system is shit, they make a fresh account, get placed in gold and live there happily ever after. After a certain point when the system puts you in one of it's boxes, to get out you need to exert a huge amount of effort.
Or learn the 1 v 9 champions ;)
You can’t just be slightly better than your Elo if your teammates are significantly worse. You are guaranteed to lose if you can’t carry in that case. Like sure I can be slightly better than my elo but it doesn’t matter if my mid is 0-7 at 8mins
Fortunately, you're allowed to play more than one game, so your teammates and opponents will average out over time.
nah the amount of smurfs and deranking accounts skews this completely then you get a real match with tilted players or a bad comp, the stars rarely align for a close well earned match its almost always a stomp for the wrong reasons or no one knows how to end or theyre choosing not to
You are making a mistake of over-focusing on the outcome of single games. That single game just doesn't really matter over the course of a 500+ game season. If you are only "slightly better" than your current ELO, it is going to take very many more games the climb, simply because you will have so many "coinflip" games. It is where the simple "if you never feed then the other team is more likely to have a feeder" statement comes in. Having a team mate go 0/7 is very frustrating in the moment, but you must think of climbing the ladder as a marathon. Does how quickly you take 1 step *really* influence your final time in a marathon so much?
using the argument of every 1 cs matters allowing a lot of micro transactions to build up to a significant outcome id say y e s
You should be building every possible advantage for yourself in every game, so that you can carry the carryable games (and not be an anchor in the games that some teammate will carry). You still have to accept that unless you're smurfing you are going to lose a significant fraction of your games regardless of if you do well personally.
i do but its sad that i get matched with players that barely know how to play + platinum smurfs that have no business in their mmr bronze iv again win 70% of my lanes, (cs, kda, pressure) contest objectives when its smart, trade something else when its not play around smarter teammates, keep a positive attitude, ping helpful info play back with fed enemy, claim / help get shutdowns if possible dont over extend, split push lanes, rot enemy jung camps, vision everywhere 40% wr lately, team either wants to ff early or theres some deflated duo running the game down must've reported over 10 deranking bot accounts in the last 2 days alone
average win gives me 17 always lose 28 on loss it doesnt make up for it
Climbing works the same way for normal players but slower. You eventually learn to avoid mistakes that kept you at your current elo allowing to constantly abuse it against the enemy who hasn’t learned that yet. Which usually results in your being able to carry if you can play out that new learned thing. It’s not even a lot that’s needed. Simple wave management can already feel like you are faker for the enemy once you know how to use it. And being consistent at that you will climb. You won’t be 20/0 every game because you aren’t a diamond level duellist yet, but 0/0 and a 50-100cs lead is still a win lane if you play something that allows for scaling. Next thing you could be learning is better map awareness. Punish Katarina players or any other roam champion by constantly shoving. Follow if you know the matchup. Actually ping your team back. Move to the action if your jungler needs help on your own. All of those things aren’t hard but make you climb if you invest the time to learn them
how do we diagnose our weak area's? i feel like im super good but i obviously suck, how do i diagnose my weak area's that are stopping me above average area's from letting me climb?
The simplest way is to watch a replay of yourself but pretend that you're watching someone else and try to find all "their" mistakes.
Good example. If you are doing poorly and you get the top lane inhibitor tower and the inhibitor and gain 3 levels while you lose the outer tower in mid that is probably the best use of your champion that game.
These questions need to be asked through the lens of the champion you’re playing. It also varies game to game based on the win conditions and team compositions. To help you shake up the way you are thinking about this.. imagine an Ivern jungle securing every dragon, getting baron, then destroying the nexus. The Iverns end score line is 1/1/18. I’d say that’s a nice performance potentially being the most impactful player.
Also I like this take, particularly the part where you say "most impactful". It doesn't necessarily force the idea winning, but becoming actually useful to your team regardless of game state.
From a lens of a Malzahar and Swain player, what would probably be the indication that you're providing a good impact on the game? Malzahar mid, and Swain as mid and support.
What's your job as malzahar? To lock down a priority target or get a pick before an objective. Are you consistently in a position to do that? What's Swains job as a midlaner?
This is what I assume Malzahar's goal is, plus passively catching/pushing up waves, so this is what I constantly do with him. But I was unsure about it. As for Swain, I'm still pretty new to him. I've been playing him for a while, and as of now I see him as an unkillable teamfight beast, and a punishing catcher. Of course, I'm open for corrections. Again, I'm fairly new to him and I haven't really figured out his whole identity as a champ yet.
Passively catching waves is okay but if you're feeling like the enemy team is overtaking you then it probably means you need to be fighting with your team more. If you're strong then your team needs you in fights.
my vision of a carrying swain or malz mid is one that safely makes it to 15 min with ~9-10 cs/m and just starts executing teamfights really well
This is just a self fulfilling prophecy that ruins every elo and forces everyone to try to carry because everyone else is also trying to carry. When you get the odd game where you have a nice team comp and your team just picks a bunch of easy champs and simply does their job and nothing more, you see how much more effective that is than 5 people all trying to 1v9. It’s extremely rare to lose a game where you have tank top, utility mid and enchanter support with everyone trying to their job instead of the tank trying to 1v1 split and enchanter going for Hylissang engages. You’ll also find at lower elos that just doing your job is actually enough as long as you’re not an assassin (killing the ADC is rarely enough because their bruiser is 1 v 3 buttfucking your backline and can 1v1 you with ease as well)
God, the best games are where people choose flexible, reliable champs and, most importantly, keep their cool and support one another. Such incredible wins have come from games like that. I'd send them fucking gift baskets and roses if I could.
The rare game as an adc where your team actually plays around you instead of actively running away from you feels so good.
…and then blames you for not dealing enough damage at the end of the game
For context I currently use Malzahar, and I mostly focus on locking down priority targets in teamfights, applying pressure through bouncing Es, and catching/pushing up waves to maintain priority. So far I feel like what I'm doing isn't enough since our team gets stomped most of the time. Now I'm not sure if it's because I should be doing more or I'm wrong for doing what I'm currently doing, or it is what it is. I suspect though that it may be a little bit of both.
What you’re doing wrong is probably not being there ahead of fights or being in fights that you shouldn’t be in. The enemy diver/assassin can’t really do their job when you’re there but if they are always somehow able to get kills and you’re in a sidelane you’re doing something wrong
Sounds like something I need to work on. It's true I often find myself late for fights. Not even sure at times whether the correct choice is to group or farm. Thanks
“Extremely rare” my ass. Every other game my mid is 0-4 at like 7 or 8 minutes unless I abandon lane and babysit them
That statement just puts unnecessary pressure on you. Just be better than your lane opponent.
Not all the time. Sometimes you need to be aware you're playing weak side. You have to know how to be carried and play accordingly. Almost every game your team will have a losing lane. And sometimes that lane is your lane.
You know what made me climb as an adc to Gold while having my mmr destroyed by trying to get a friends of Mine out of Bronze? I picked a champ i am good at (Varus in this example) played my lane Phase with my brain trying Not to Die did Not take any fight when the enemy laner suddenly started to get aggressive. Looked at the map and helped my jungler when i saw him in a pinch. I basically played for my Team. And suddenly my winrate skyrocked. At certain days when i just got in and played like two games in the mourning my winrate was close to 99%.
Man i just dont want my botlane to pick cait lux and then lose lane. Just go even and let me carry. The inting part is what i take issue with
I think a wordy but more accurate version is: "You need to be the reason your team wins **more often than an average player in your role in your current rank**." And if you think that's vague, you're right. You can do this in a bunch of different ways. Teamfight better, rotate better, CS better. It doesn't matter what it is that you're doing exactly, as long as you're doing something that causes you to win more often. For example if you're a Janna player yes you're not going to "carry" in the traditional sense and get 15 kills. But you need to ask yourself "why should I be climbing? What do I do better than other (insert rank) Janna players?"
playing with ppl worth enchanting
This is for climbing quickly and consistently. The only time you need to do this is when you are 'stuck' in a lower elo, and only to get out of that elo. Carrying literally just means using your lead to win the game, by doing everything. Dealing damage, macroing your teams, csing and taking towers well, ect. It does change from champ to champ and role to role, but literally every champ in every role can carry.
Everyone who plays league will sit here and always try to find this golden answer for years and years when every single game and situation is completely different. This game is very complicated where even one play changes the whole game outcome. If you're playing a carry champ it sure helps to carry. If you're playing a scaling champ it's probably beneficial to your team if you don't die early. If you're playing an early game champ like pantheon is probably good if you get like 5 kills by 10 mins. These all will lead to more wins even if at times you lose.
I normally view champion variety based on lane role, but hearing you describe them the way you did gave me a clue on how to identify a champ's wincon.
It's important to understand your wincon but also be conscious of what your enemy wants to do or is trying to do. If you deny that you will win the head to head. Say you're playing malzahar against pantheon. U know he wants to all in you as often as possible so u walk up just enough to get your e on them and back off. But he always wants to roam so you might want to get to to make sure you take to so u can constantly keep him in lane or make him lose farm and exp by roaming. That's just one of 1000000 examples
Its quite the opposite, all you have to do is less mistakes and take time windows where no counterplay is allowed, as small as they might be. That basically is "carrying"
There are a few things to keep in mind every game. Always do your best to win lane safely l, which is easy to focus on first, then put pressure on the map through a few things like split pushing or focusing on objs and getting shutdowns. These things depend on your skill level compared to the whole games skill level and to see where you are at in terms of skill, are you above the average winrate in your current ranked position? Are your stats per game above or below your preferred goal (if not then set a benchmark where you are lacking like warding, damage or overall team participation) and are you consistently earning enough KDA to be the best or above average player in games. That's all you have to do in order to climb and carrying the team requires you to be efficient with your decisions and understanding your limits as a strong player so don't stress out too much, just do your best to maintain a high standard for yourself and you have to have faith that your hard work is paying off as you improve.
You don’t win by carrying, you only when by carrying when it’s your opportunity to do the carrying. You win by not being a determinant to your team, and by consistently having a positive impact. A positive impact and carrying are far different things. A 1 kill and 15-30 cs lead post laning phase a game is more than adequate. Not giving up plates, or kills for free is adequate. There are 9 others players in the game. Most games one player has the largest impact and chances of that being you most games are slim, so the best way and most effective way to win and to climb, is by being a consistent in every game, win your lane even by a small margin, don’t take unnecessary deaths, and show up on the map when and where you should, and play to your individual champions win con, and more importantly the over all teams win con.
My general principle as a toplaner is pretty much always heading toplane until I have atleast gotten first tower. After that, I/m usually aiming for T2, but now taking enemy jungle camps, getting vision topside. I try not to aimlessly roam without ensuring my waves are fully pushed in, otherwise the enemy I was once dominating will have a chance to get back into the game. When I have big CDs like flash, I may look to even proxy one wave top, recall and head to the opposite sidelane to make a play, which ensures I don't lose any CS. I play Riven if that makes any difference!
Carry potential can be so many things depending on the role you are playing, champion, making calls, giving pings etc. It also varies by game state, and when in the game it is. Something as simple as accurately tracking the enemy jungler(from any role) and pinging to back off as they head to a lane can "carry" the last game I played, was against a hec jungle and knowing he started bot side, I pinged the whole top river when I new he would be finishing his full clear, top lane Gwen started playing a little more passive and about 7 seconds later Hec shows up to gank her, she survived barely but would have been fb if she didn't react a bit. Mid lane was a Talon Zed who just fisted each other all game, but after that one ping that saved a death both top and bot lane reacted to every one of mine, effectively shutting down Hecarims ganking advantage over me(Shyvana) in addition any time I pinged for objectives they came, and we had soul at like 23 minutes in a game that kill wise was close enough it shouldn't have been possible(I'm sure we had a pretty large gold lead as we got every single objective to that point)
Sure, go into every game with the intention that you are going to hard-carry your team to victory. That said, it's not going to happen that often. Yes, you will have games where you are hard-carrying your team. You are also going to have games where your team is hard-carrying *you*, and most games will fall somewhere in-between. In practice, you will do whatever you need to do in order to ensure you win. If that means you end up carrying, great, but more often it means figuring out how to gain many small advantages so that your team as a whole does better than the other team. Sometimes it means making sure you simply don't feed your lane. Sometimes it means figuring out who on your team is doing well and playing around them to let *them* carry. Doing well means expanding the gap when you are winning, but it also means narrowing the gap when you are losing. And the way you do that is usually through seizing advantages whenever they present themself, no matter how small. And the key word there is "small" - many players think games are turned around by a clutch play or a key teamfight or a stolen baron, but in reality, the far more reliable way to narrow the gap is to pick up a minion here, a jungle camp there, and a poke from a safe distance. Many small advantages add up to a big one, and that is how top teams climb their way up from a deficit far more often than waiting for the enemy team to botch an engage or for their carry to overextend. Not every game is going to be the best game you ever played. You just need to do your best, whether your best is being a 1v9 force of nature or trying as hard as you can to be as carriable as possible - and sometimes, unfortunately, even when your best simply means losing with dignity and with lessons learned.
The moment I stopped to think that I need to carry, I went from gold to diamond. You just need to be better than average, be consistent, and have good fundamentals. When you start working on fundamentals, you realize how many players have absolutely no understanding of trading, wave management, vision control, positioning etc
My favorite matchups are the ones who don't have awareness regarding wave management and trades during laning phase. But that's where I currently am, to not play worse than my opponent but not necessarily play better than past me. I am practicing consistency nonetheless, at least with the champs I know/actively learning.
If you are doing well and you are a early game carry you need to help your late game carry if they are not. The worse thing to do if you are fed is keep taking food out of your ADC's mouth. So when you go to the other lane and get a kill don't take all the farm too. Most early game champs are still relevant in mid game but if you end up going into late game you need to be sure your team is up to the task. Objectives are important but know when to go for them and when to let it go. If you get dragon for instance and your team wipes and your enemy ends up with all that gold from kill and then goes to lane for 20 secs. and crashes all 3 minion waves into your towers maybe you should have let that one go.
Also if everyone is trying to lead and no one is following, there is going to be a problem. You need to know how to carry and when to be carried.
Definitely not. I started climbing heavily by shifting to play around whoever our win condition is each game. I'm 0-2 in lane but a side lane is winning? Time to play like a bitch and just avoid dying so they can carry. Learning to get carried is a skill and will take you a lot further than you think.
Most people in League coinflip their games. Some games they do really good and some games they get stomped. That’s why they don’t climb. If you are consistent every single game then you will climb. There is no special champion that will get you higher ranked either. Just find and play 1-2 champions and learn how to play them well. A lot of smurfs don’t even do anything that fancy to carry in lower elos, all they do is farm good, punish the enemy’s mistakes and limit the amount of mistakes they make. They also understand wave management and fundamentals which I recommend looking up guides on youtube for. It doesn’t matter what role you play either, those things are still important to know.
wanna know what i do, go brand mid int enemy mid and jg go 0-5 give my adc or jg the shutdown gold give adc all the waves and cs support your team by inting to bait fights where ever possible if i get a kill i chill and carry teamfights with liandry and rylais powerspike.
Its easier if you're a Fiora and killed 2 by yourself on a sidelane xd, the whole enemy team is screwed
I hardly disagree. No yasuo, our bot is 7/0 and our jngl is 5/0. You dont have to carry. Just stay safe, let your team carry your ass and dont int
group way less, farm way more. take a good fight at 16+ when you are massive and end.