Some picks have gone from (being considered) trollpicks to meta picks with absolutely no relevant balance changes being applied meanwhile. Morgana support as an example. It's a stat based game. Picks are objectively bad only if their numbers really make it impossible to do what you attempt, like I think Yuumi can't beat jungle camps, or AP draven can't get any stats from the items.
The reason I called Veigar APC off-metaish, is that his pick rate is (exactly) 0.99% in the current patch v13.10. \[Sample size 120K ranked matches.\]
He is just behind Kalista, who's pick rate is 1.35%, and thus is meta.
I didn't mean to offend any Veigar bot-laners, I'm purely talking about what is meta by definition by Riot. I'm quite familiar how strong he is in bot lane, and would definitely encourage anyone curious about him to try him out. Except in situations where your entire team is AP-based, then it would be recommended to play with traditional ADC.
The only thing to do when you play off meta, is that you have to have strong mental toughness, because you will lose a certain percentage of your games to your team straight up inting you or refusing to play with your pick. I’ve been up to masters as a Shaco support OTP and that part never fully goes away. So that WILL be a part of your winrate and will hurt you. But otherwise, as long as you’re good at it, you can climb with anything. And if you’re better at that weird thing than you are at anything else, you’ll do better with the weird stuff than with meta picks!
Omg! Thank you! Thank you so much!
This is what kind of attitude I was looking from people here. I'm so proud of you. You are perfect human being. There are so many close-minded people in the game and in this subreddit. You are a living proof that off-meta doesn't equal bad outcome. And I really feel bad for how people have refused to play with your champion. It has happened to me too.
I guess that's part of the human experience. If you woke one morning and you saw someone walking on the street sideways, you would easily think "What a wierdo." We all are too fast to judge. But maybe that person has discovered more effective way of locomotion.
That's how legends are born. Try something new, and prove to yourself it's great strategy. Even if nobody ever approves of you strategy, it should be enough, that YOU know it's good. And that's what matters.
I swear Shaco is one of my fave supports to play with, he blocks like any engages and standing in boxes keeps you so safe - I'll never understand ADCs who rage about playing with one 😭
Edit: that and he doesn't need gold to destroy the enemies mental
River Shen is in fact NOT an insanely good strategy. Its borderline trolling. If the enemy laner just have 3 Braincells, it will look like this after some minutes:
Enemy top lvl 7 with perfect cs and 2 plates while shen is lvl 3 with 2 cs and 0 gold
Enemy mid lvl 6 while your mid is lvl 5 cause shen leashed xp
Enemy top will just have perma prio, you lose rift and drakes and top + mid tower before minute 14.
River shen only works in iron against bots
River shen is 100% a strat. And a great strat. Especially in low elo where communication is spotty. Shen supp is a hop away from being river shen anyways. Embrace it
Its definitely not. Enemy jungler will get sooo much ahead. You wont be able to secure any objectives since enemy jungler will have 1200 smite before shen has 900 smite. If you want to play river shen you can play him as support with a adc that has self peel
People like you are the literal reason why people are afraid playing off-meta.
I'v observed a grandmaster one-trick Shen playing River Shen successfully, against real players, in ranked.
You have no clue what you are talking about, yet you act like an expert in River Shen strategy.
No offense, but leave things that you don't know anything about to people who have put their sweat and tears into something like River Shen.
I'm Bronze 1 on EUW. I'v been playing since 2011, literally everyday. And no, I don't claim to know everything about League, but I do considered myself a veteran, since I'v been playing for almost 12 years.
But what does my rank have to do with anything?
I don't play River Shen nor have I claimed so.
Still waiting for the op gg of the river shen main in gm you mentioned
And bronze after 12 years? Really? I reached dia in my second year.
And yes your rank means somehting here. It shows that what i said is true. That you lack the fundamental understanding of the game. How would you know what strategies work? You obviously cant pull anything off
I don't have his account information. It was a replay I watched 3 years ago in the client. And he wasn't River Shen main, he was just Shen main, who wanted to try River Shen strategy, and he pulled it off successfuly. I watched the replay from the client, but I didn't record it.
Are you thinking that I'm deceiving you? Why would I even do that? There is no gain for me of any sorts. I'm only trying to help new players to realize that just because something is off-meta, doesn't automatically mean that the player is trolling.
Is that really such a bad message to new players?
I mean, if people only played exactly same champions, with same items, same summoner spells, wouldn't the game feel stale?
People who execute something as exotic as River Shen are heroes in my eyes, not trolls.
And maybe most people who have played River Shen fail miserabely, but if few are successful, that means that we shouldn't mark entire group of players as "trolls", just because you think so.
It's really sad to encounter the kind of close-mindedness you have. Almost depressing how meta-driven some people are.
\- - -
I occasionally play Azir top in ranked, which is clearly off-meta. And yes, I have currently 0% win rate with him. Obviously that is bad, but it takes only one ranked match where I play good, and win.
Isn't that the goal of League? Prove yourself to yourself. No matter if it's meta or off-meta.
Are you ok? 3 years ago? So that just proves my point that river shen was once ok but its trolling now.
Thats like me saying that qwen jungle is S Tier and everyone plays it and when you ask for proof i sent you the stats patch from when she was released. Noone cares about that. River shen is really really bad NOW. 3-4 years ago? Different story but we are in 2023 and not in 2019 xD
Noone says that you cant play off meta. Play whatever you feel like. Its your rank. But dont say its good. River shen is objectively really really bad for your team. Its like yuumi mid. Can you win games with it? Yes. Is it good? No.
When does it become griefing?
OTP yuumi mid with 200 games who tries to win? Not griefing
Locking in yuumi mid first time in a masters game as a jungle khaziks main? Thats griefing
Go to /r/Shen and ask River Shen players. Don't ask me. I don't know how execute it correctly. The only thing I know is that it is feasible.
And no, I'm not saying it's fool-proof strategy. Obviously every playstyle has it's risks and benefits. There are probably more risks involved in playing River Shen then normally, but that doesn't prove anything.
And also, if someone has claimed to you that River Shen is a meme, they aren't being truthful.
River Shen is not a urban myth, there was actually a guy who did it. Nobody knows who he was, so everyone claims "Oh, it's just a joke."
River shen was a strategy years ago. It worked back then in like 2016
But feel free to show me a single river shen main in high elo on a reputable server
Are you ok? Something can be good one patch and trolling the next? River shen was good once but with all the things that changed since then its completely troll now
Also no. River shen wasnt a strategy i Dota. There isnt even a Shen in Dota
Do you know how to read?
This is what I said: "`And River Shen strategy was basically a thing before League was even released. In DotA All-Stars some people played roaming support, where they gave up their lane, to babysit other lanes.`"
I'm not claiming at any point that Shen was in DotA All-Stars. Stop saying things I'm not saying.
All I'm saying is that there was this role, where the playstyle was very similar to River Shen. Some people called it "roaming support" back in the days.
Tell me exactly how is that different?
That basics are same.
* Gank -> Share some exp from the lane. -> Go to second lane. \[Continue the cicle\]
Only difference with River Shen, is that it works so well with Shen, because Shen isn't so reliant on gold and items and he has very powerful taunt and insane damage from his empowered Q.
I'v literally played Shen with 40cs going 21/3/8 in 40min match, carrying entire team. It's same thing with Alistar. Not all champions are heavily relied on gold and items.
Riven shen is trolling, it’s not a “strategy” outside of iron. It isn’t even an urban myth, it’s quite literally a meme video not meant to be taken seriously. It is not viable anyway whatsoever
That isn't correct.
River Shen is normally a jungler. (Very rarely top-laner or support.)
You play River Shen with exhaust and ignite, sacrificing smite. Just because jungler doesn't have smite doesn't mean he is no longer jungler. It's just highly unusual.
I mean, you can play Cho'Gath jungle without smite just fine.
But we are talking here about River Shen, the point isn't being traditional jungler. You need exhaust and ignite to execute the strategy properly.
Do you watch xPetu? My man is in challenger and has done river shen videos multiple times, though he plays normally by default. It is clearly possible to make it work at any level in solo queue.
As someone who plays a lot of off meta and usually has a positive winrate on it:
You need to play something with purpose. You have to find a champ in a role with a build that makes sense, and even more important, makes sense in a way that it could be better than something else that is meta already.
For example, currently I'm doing a bunch of Xin Support. I have always loved hyper agressive supports and xin has a super long engage oneshot combo that no other support has. The moment I'm in, it's do or die for the enemy - usually die because I take 3/4 of their hp until my knockup kicks in. With this I've found a champ that does something in a way no other champ can. It's not good into any magchup and it robs your team of an enchanter (which are super strong right now). So its not meta.
When you want to play off meta, it has to make sense. You need a plan and it has to be considtent. Usually playing for just one stupid funny combo will not get you a lot of wins. River shen may have crazy map presence, but you can just play normal jungle and use your map correctly. A good kayn or hecarim will be more annoying than a shen sitting on crab the entire game
this is why we need to see ranks before reading some long ass thread
as a bronze player you haven’t seen anything “off meta” most players can go into your game and play nautilus mid and carry because individual skill matters so much more in that elo than counterpicking or unusual builds
so because you don’t have real experience to talk about the subject you base everything off statistics (as seen in your responses to people asking if something is offmeta/a good pick), and statistics should not be the pure basis to whether an “off meta” build is good
Was faker first to do it though? I was under the impression it was something he picked up from the playerbase (and maybe made more popular).
Its also not the first time its popular, has been somewhat meta for a month or so during FPX world championship title
i play exclusively off meta picks. my main is viego mid, followed by aphelios mid jhin top/mid. occasionally some other random/rarer picks like kayn mid sett mid/supp etc. its kinda insane that people dodge these picks so often even in normals to the point where i have to write slideshows and link what i will do and why it works. you can play LITERALLY ANYTHING if you out think the enemy hard enough and are good enough (not saying im challenger god bc i am shitlow but its very easy to analyze and strategize around your opponents to get an advantage) off meta is based and i never played in the correct roles for champs.
so yes youre right its very rarely a con unless obviously troll but i will add that if youre on a champ that requires some bit of team work and youre soloqing (ex jhin mid i legit cannot help with ganks/early skirmishes bc severe mana issues so the jg has to play around that) its gonna be much harder than playing a traditional laner.
i'm a 4 million mastery brand mid otp.... i've played him mid since season 3 and i've played him with full movement speed runes and ghost since season 5, I think it's stronger than standard support brand build. but people think i'm trolling.
tell me this doesnt look fun [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-43LSmWUA5o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-43LSmWUA5o)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW6klVdqH4I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW6klVdqH4I)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMiAuAXrWqg
Quick question, where does Xerath mid lie in that spectrum? I queue mid/jungle and Xer/Vex are my current top two mids, curious if I’m asking for flame in ranked if I go xer.
Hey.
According to Lolalytics, Xerath mid has 1.49% pick rate in the last 30 days. His win rate is very solid, standing at 51.29% win rate, the sample size is 450K ranked matches.
One-trick Xerath mid has 56.95% win rate, the sample size is 3,8K ranked matches.
Definitely a good pick.
It’s so interesting that’s the case considering he doesn’t show up when you filter for mid. Thanks for the data friend. Appreciate this post and your resiliency through people coming at you in various ways.
I experienced Elise top today. She deals so much % health damage and can safely dive you so hard, that she is worse than Vayne. I cannot imagine playing against something so horribly unfun and broken again.
For context, I have played Elise many times, I have played against Elise many times, but not laning phase as a toplaner. I was a very off-meta top champ, but I couldn't imagine a single champ that could compete with her human form Q poke. Perhaps Garen could maybe stand a chance with very specific playstyle and build, but besides Garen, Jayce and maybe some niche pick like Malzahar? Nope.
The amount of safe, high damage, low cooldown poke she has may be okay against a ranged champ or a champ with high mobility, but for a slow hulking juggernaut? Nope. Worse than Vayne, absolutely broken, delete her Q % damage right now. Have her deal some proper normal damage with good ratios, but don't give a fucking assassin with such a diverse, powerful and safe kit two % (Current X Missing) health damage powers, that's insane! She can literally Q-R-Q-Ignite you under tower when you are 60%+ HP and you just die while she E's away without taking a single turret hit.
Riot really needs to rework her kit so this is no longer possible.
Tbh her q human is weak as f, i only use it to weave in autos, her strongest spell is w spoder, has crazy high base dmg and scaling. I play elise mid top almost exclusively hehe, either grasp hsteels or fleet/comet ludens.
Ask any elise, her q is the worst of the worst, been nerfed time and time again and costs so much mana for so little dmg. Id either up the dmg by 30/40% or lower it by 10/20% and lower the mana from 80 to 30/40 mana.
One Q does like 6th of a health bar easily level one and her spider Q execute does in much more than that. I played her too and I find her Q and E absoluty shitface busted.
Lost chapter costs 1100. Tear costs 400. Doran's Ring costs 400. And most evil in my opinion, corrupting potion, like fucking gangplank. You can afford teleport and ignite with the disgusting spider E anyways.
I’m in school for sport psychology. If I were to guess people don’t like playing with off meta picks because they don’t know how to predict or play around them. For meta champions, you know what their plan is and that you have to play around them. You know if you have an Amumu jg he’ll be looking for an ult and then the team follows up. A Morgan’s jg? You know you can follow up on a Q or ult but she doesn’t have the same level of engage as amumu so you’ll have to play around it a bit differently. She’s also much squishier so you have to play around that too.
Not knowing exactly what to do for or expect from a jg vs one you’ve probably had many times before takes up “mental stacks” and can be uncomfortable for a lot of people. BUT it also makes the other team uncomfortable because they won’t know the exact counterplay.
At least that’s my theory
I've been almost exclusively playing darius jungle. It's fun, like really really fun. Clears super fast, great at invading, decent ganks, great team fighter. He really does well in skirmishes around objectives.
Biggest downside imo is the inconsistency, sometimes he feels like a very coinflippy pick. Like sometimes half a second can be the difference between getting a triple or dying with 3 low hp enemies running away.
I don't think it's a top tier pick by any means but it's a very solid off meta build that does what he does very well
Some picks have gone from (being considered) trollpicks to meta picks with absolutely no relevant balance changes being applied meanwhile. Morgana support as an example. It's a stat based game. Picks are objectively bad only if their numbers really make it impossible to do what you attempt, like I think Yuumi can't beat jungle camps, or AP draven can't get any stats from the items.
Bro called Veigar APC off-meta, shut down the thread
The reason I called Veigar APC off-metaish, is that his pick rate is (exactly) 0.99% in the current patch v13.10. \[Sample size 120K ranked matches.\] He is just behind Kalista, who's pick rate is 1.35%, and thus is meta. I didn't mean to offend any Veigar bot-laners, I'm purely talking about what is meta by definition by Riot. I'm quite familiar how strong he is in bot lane, and would definitely encourage anyone curious about him to try him out. Except in situations where your entire team is AP-based, then it would be recommended to play with traditional ADC.
% pick dont represent meta well
The only thing to do when you play off meta, is that you have to have strong mental toughness, because you will lose a certain percentage of your games to your team straight up inting you or refusing to play with your pick. I’ve been up to masters as a Shaco support OTP and that part never fully goes away. So that WILL be a part of your winrate and will hurt you. But otherwise, as long as you’re good at it, you can climb with anything. And if you’re better at that weird thing than you are at anything else, you’ll do better with the weird stuff than with meta picks!
Omg! Thank you! Thank you so much! This is what kind of attitude I was looking from people here. I'm so proud of you. You are perfect human being. There are so many close-minded people in the game and in this subreddit. You are a living proof that off-meta doesn't equal bad outcome. And I really feel bad for how people have refused to play with your champion. It has happened to me too. I guess that's part of the human experience. If you woke one morning and you saw someone walking on the street sideways, you would easily think "What a wierdo." We all are too fast to judge. But maybe that person has discovered more effective way of locomotion. That's how legends are born. Try something new, and prove to yourself it's great strategy. Even if nobody ever approves of you strategy, it should be enough, that YOU know it's good. And that's what matters.
I swear Shaco is one of my fave supports to play with, he blocks like any engages and standing in boxes keeps you so safe - I'll never understand ADCs who rage about playing with one 😭 Edit: that and he doesn't need gold to destroy the enemies mental
River Shen is in fact NOT an insanely good strategy. Its borderline trolling. If the enemy laner just have 3 Braincells, it will look like this after some minutes: Enemy top lvl 7 with perfect cs and 2 plates while shen is lvl 3 with 2 cs and 0 gold Enemy mid lvl 6 while your mid is lvl 5 cause shen leashed xp Enemy top will just have perma prio, you lose rift and drakes and top + mid tower before minute 14. River shen only works in iron against bots
You do know that river shen locks *jungle*, not top, right...?
Yes? Why?
>Enemy top lvl 7 with perfect cs and 2 plates while shen is lvl 3 with 2 cs and 0 gold I don't understand why you're comparing to toplane
River shen is 100% a strat. And a great strat. Especially in low elo where communication is spotty. Shen supp is a hop away from being river shen anyways. Embrace it
Its definitely not. Enemy jungler will get sooo much ahead. You wont be able to secure any objectives since enemy jungler will have 1200 smite before shen has 900 smite. If you want to play river shen you can play him as support with a adc that has self peel
People like you are the literal reason why people are afraid playing off-meta. I'v observed a grandmaster one-trick Shen playing River Shen successfully, against real players, in ranked. You have no clue what you are talking about, yet you act like an expert in River Shen strategy. No offense, but leave things that you don't know anything about to people who have put their sweat and tears into something like River Shen.
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I'm Bronze 1 on EUW. I'v been playing since 2011, literally everyday. And no, I don't claim to know everything about League, but I do considered myself a veteran, since I'v been playing for almost 12 years. But what does my rank have to do with anything? I don't play River Shen nor have I claimed so.
Still waiting for the op gg of the river shen main in gm you mentioned And bronze after 12 years? Really? I reached dia in my second year. And yes your rank means somehting here. It shows that what i said is true. That you lack the fundamental understanding of the game. How would you know what strategies work? You obviously cant pull anything off
I don't have his account information. It was a replay I watched 3 years ago in the client. And he wasn't River Shen main, he was just Shen main, who wanted to try River Shen strategy, and he pulled it off successfuly. I watched the replay from the client, but I didn't record it. Are you thinking that I'm deceiving you? Why would I even do that? There is no gain for me of any sorts. I'm only trying to help new players to realize that just because something is off-meta, doesn't automatically mean that the player is trolling. Is that really such a bad message to new players? I mean, if people only played exactly same champions, with same items, same summoner spells, wouldn't the game feel stale? People who execute something as exotic as River Shen are heroes in my eyes, not trolls. And maybe most people who have played River Shen fail miserabely, but if few are successful, that means that we shouldn't mark entire group of players as "trolls", just because you think so. It's really sad to encounter the kind of close-mindedness you have. Almost depressing how meta-driven some people are. \- - - I occasionally play Azir top in ranked, which is clearly off-meta. And yes, I have currently 0% win rate with him. Obviously that is bad, but it takes only one ranked match where I play good, and win. Isn't that the goal of League? Prove yourself to yourself. No matter if it's meta or off-meta.
Are you ok? 3 years ago? So that just proves my point that river shen was once ok but its trolling now. Thats like me saying that qwen jungle is S Tier and everyone plays it and when you ask for proof i sent you the stats patch from when she was released. Noone cares about that. River shen is really really bad NOW. 3-4 years ago? Different story but we are in 2023 and not in 2019 xD
Noone says that you cant play off meta. Play whatever you feel like. Its your rank. But dont say its good. River shen is objectively really really bad for your team. Its like yuumi mid. Can you win games with it? Yes. Is it good? No. When does it become griefing? OTP yuumi mid with 200 games who tries to win? Not griefing Locking in yuumi mid first time in a masters game as a jungle khaziks main? Thats griefing
Okay. Fair enough. I updated the post accordingly to our conversation.
River shen is nothing but a meme and is just blatantly trolling. You have to be joking
Go to /r/Shen and ask River Shen players. Don't ask me. I don't know how execute it correctly. The only thing I know is that it is feasible. And no, I'm not saying it's fool-proof strategy. Obviously every playstyle has it's risks and benefits. There are probably more risks involved in playing River Shen then normally, but that doesn't prove anything. And also, if someone has claimed to you that River Shen is a meme, they aren't being truthful. River Shen is not a urban myth, there was actually a guy who did it. Nobody knows who he was, so everyone claims "Oh, it's just a joke."
River shen was a strategy years ago. It worked back then in like 2016 But feel free to show me a single river shen main in high elo on a reputable server
River Shen was played in 2020 worlds finals but pop off king
Shen Jungle is nit the same as river shen. River shen doesnt really farm camps. He just takes scuttles and perma ganks. And that wasnt played in 2020
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Are you ok? Something can be good one patch and trolling the next? River shen was good once but with all the things that changed since then its completely troll now Also no. River shen wasnt a strategy i Dota. There isnt even a Shen in Dota
Do you know how to read? This is what I said: "`And River Shen strategy was basically a thing before League was even released. In DotA All-Stars some people played roaming support, where they gave up their lane, to babysit other lanes.`" I'm not claiming at any point that Shen was in DotA All-Stars. Stop saying things I'm not saying. All I'm saying is that there was this role, where the playstyle was very similar to River Shen. Some people called it "roaming support" back in the days.
Roaming support is nothing like river shen 😂
You’re comparing riven shen to a roaming support. You’re the moron here
Tell me exactly how is that different? That basics are same. * Gank -> Share some exp from the lane. -> Go to second lane. \[Continue the cicle\] Only difference with River Shen, is that it works so well with Shen, because Shen isn't so reliant on gold and items and he has very powerful taunt and insane damage from his empowered Q. I'v literally played Shen with 40cs going 21/3/8 in 40min match, carrying entire team. It's same thing with Alistar. Not all champions are heavily relied on gold and items.
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Riven shen is trolling, it’s not a “strategy” outside of iron. It isn’t even an urban myth, it’s quite literally a meme video not meant to be taken seriously. It is not viable anyway whatsoever
River Shen was played in 2020 worlds finals but pop off king
River shen isn’t jungle shen. The video explicitly states you take exhaust and ignite.
That isn't correct. River Shen is normally a jungler. (Very rarely top-laner or support.) You play River Shen with exhaust and ignite, sacrificing smite. Just because jungler doesn't have smite doesn't mean he is no longer jungler. It's just highly unusual. I mean, you can play Cho'Gath jungle without smite just fine. But we are talking here about River Shen, the point isn't being traditional jungler. You need exhaust and ignite to execute the strategy properly.
No you can’t lol. Going jungle without smite is autoloss
Even more as of 1-2years no, it was viiable before but rito made away with that. Less xp and gold without smite and jg item etc
Exaxtly, it might’ve been a strat before. But rn it can’t work, especially after they made it impossible to buy jgl item without smite
ok show us the video, do it
Do you watch xPetu? My man is in challenger and has done river shen videos multiple times, though he plays normally by default. It is clearly possible to make it work at any level in solo queue.
2 years ago yes. Im not aware that he successfully played river shen this season. As far as i know not even on a low elo smurf account
As someone who plays a lot of off meta and usually has a positive winrate on it: You need to play something with purpose. You have to find a champ in a role with a build that makes sense, and even more important, makes sense in a way that it could be better than something else that is meta already. For example, currently I'm doing a bunch of Xin Support. I have always loved hyper agressive supports and xin has a super long engage oneshot combo that no other support has. The moment I'm in, it's do or die for the enemy - usually die because I take 3/4 of their hp until my knockup kicks in. With this I've found a champ that does something in a way no other champ can. It's not good into any magchup and it robs your team of an enchanter (which are super strong right now). So its not meta. When you want to play off meta, it has to make sense. You need a plan and it has to be considtent. Usually playing for just one stupid funny combo will not get you a lot of wins. River shen may have crazy map presence, but you can just play normal jungle and use your map correctly. A good kayn or hecarim will be more annoying than a shen sitting on crab the entire game
what is your rank
Currently Bronze 1 on EUW. I play exclusively as top-laner. Statistics: 439W / 413L (52% Win Rate) Current roster: * Kled - 58% W.R. * Shen - 48% W.R. * Yorick - 59% W.R. * Lillia - 49% W.R. * Ornn - 40% W.R. * Singed - 54% W.R. * Tahm Kench - 53 W.R. Are you happy now?
That makes more sense
this is why we need to see ranks before reading some long ass thread as a bronze player you haven’t seen anything “off meta” most players can go into your game and play nautilus mid and carry because individual skill matters so much more in that elo than counterpicking or unusual builds so because you don’t have real experience to talk about the subject you base everything off statistics (as seen in your responses to people asking if something is offmeta/a good pick), and statistics should not be the pure basis to whether an “off meta” build is good
Isnt naut mid meta in high elo rn? Seen it pop up in two challenger games I spectated
dunno if you can say it’s meta but faker did do it obv inspiring others
Was faker first to do it though? I was under the impression it was something he picked up from the playerbase (and maybe made more popular). Its also not the first time its popular, has been somewhat meta for a month or so during FPX world championship title
Naut mid was always a thing, when you dont want to interact with your mid opponent and just shove and gank lol.
i play exclusively off meta picks. my main is viego mid, followed by aphelios mid jhin top/mid. occasionally some other random/rarer picks like kayn mid sett mid/supp etc. its kinda insane that people dodge these picks so often even in normals to the point where i have to write slideshows and link what i will do and why it works. you can play LITERALLY ANYTHING if you out think the enemy hard enough and are good enough (not saying im challenger god bc i am shitlow but its very easy to analyze and strategize around your opponents to get an advantage) off meta is based and i never played in the correct roles for champs. so yes youre right its very rarely a con unless obviously troll but i will add that if youre on a champ that requires some bit of team work and youre soloqing (ex jhin mid i legit cannot help with ganks/early skirmishes bc severe mana issues so the jg has to play around that) its gonna be much harder than playing a traditional laner.
i'm a 4 million mastery brand mid otp.... i've played him mid since season 3 and i've played him with full movement speed runes and ghost since season 5, I think it's stronger than standard support brand build. but people think i'm trolling. tell me this doesnt look fun [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-43LSmWUA5o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-43LSmWUA5o) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW6klVdqH4I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW6klVdqH4I) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMiAuAXrWqg
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Really just being objective about it. It’s like chess, and some just naturally aren’t good at it.
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As long as you enjoy the game that’s all that matters. Just because you’re a certain elo doesn’t mean you shouldn’t play.
Quick question, where does Xerath mid lie in that spectrum? I queue mid/jungle and Xer/Vex are my current top two mids, curious if I’m asking for flame in ranked if I go xer.
Hey. According to Lolalytics, Xerath mid has 1.49% pick rate in the last 30 days. His win rate is very solid, standing at 51.29% win rate, the sample size is 450K ranked matches. One-trick Xerath mid has 56.95% win rate, the sample size is 3,8K ranked matches. Definitely a good pick.
It’s so interesting that’s the case considering he doesn’t show up when you filter for mid. Thanks for the data friend. Appreciate this post and your resiliency through people coming at you in various ways.
He doesn't? That's strange. He had over 1% pick rate last patch, so he definitely should. Not sure whats going on with that.
Reminds me of the old Leona+J4 bot lane cheese
I experienced Elise top today. She deals so much % health damage and can safely dive you so hard, that she is worse than Vayne. I cannot imagine playing against something so horribly unfun and broken again. For context, I have played Elise many times, I have played against Elise many times, but not laning phase as a toplaner. I was a very off-meta top champ, but I couldn't imagine a single champ that could compete with her human form Q poke. Perhaps Garen could maybe stand a chance with very specific playstyle and build, but besides Garen, Jayce and maybe some niche pick like Malzahar? Nope. The amount of safe, high damage, low cooldown poke she has may be okay against a ranged champ or a champ with high mobility, but for a slow hulking juggernaut? Nope. Worse than Vayne, absolutely broken, delete her Q % damage right now. Have her deal some proper normal damage with good ratios, but don't give a fucking assassin with such a diverse, powerful and safe kit two % (Current X Missing) health damage powers, that's insane! She can literally Q-R-Q-Ignite you under tower when you are 60%+ HP and you just die while she E's away without taking a single turret hit. Riot really needs to rework her kit so this is no longer possible.
Tbh her q human is weak as f, i only use it to weave in autos, her strongest spell is w spoder, has crazy high base dmg and scaling. I play elise mid top almost exclusively hehe, either grasp hsteels or fleet/comet ludens. Ask any elise, her q is the worst of the worst, been nerfed time and time again and costs so much mana for so little dmg. Id either up the dmg by 30/40% or lower it by 10/20% and lower the mana from 80 to 30/40 mana.
One Q does like 6th of a health bar easily level one and her spider Q execute does in much more than that. I played her too and I find her Q and E absoluty shitface busted.
Also 1 q is 1/5th of her mana so theres that.
Lost chapter costs 1100. Tear costs 400. Doran's Ring costs 400. And most evil in my opinion, corrupting potion, like fucking gangplank. You can afford teleport and ignite with the disgusting spider E anyways.
Just saying, yea her dmg is disgusting, u dont need ignite lol. But srs....her q human is by far her weakest spell, BY FAR
All the more reason to nerf.
Elise been nerfe dozens of times and ppl play her 99% of the time jg. That tells you shes fine if not weakside
I’m in school for sport psychology. If I were to guess people don’t like playing with off meta picks because they don’t know how to predict or play around them. For meta champions, you know what their plan is and that you have to play around them. You know if you have an Amumu jg he’ll be looking for an ult and then the team follows up. A Morgan’s jg? You know you can follow up on a Q or ult but she doesn’t have the same level of engage as amumu so you’ll have to play around it a bit differently. She’s also much squishier so you have to play around that too. Not knowing exactly what to do for or expect from a jg vs one you’ve probably had many times before takes up “mental stacks” and can be uncomfortable for a lot of people. BUT it also makes the other team uncomfortable because they won’t know the exact counterplay. At least that’s my theory
Off meta is picking a champion in a role or build you wouldn't typically associate them with straight away, but they are viable there
I've been almost exclusively playing darius jungle. It's fun, like really really fun. Clears super fast, great at invading, decent ganks, great team fighter. He really does well in skirmishes around objectives. Biggest downside imo is the inconsistency, sometimes he feels like a very coinflippy pick. Like sometimes half a second can be the difference between getting a triple or dying with 3 low hp enemies running away. I don't think it's a top tier pick by any means but it's a very solid off meta build that does what he does very well
Would Talon in jungle be considered "off-meta"? Since Talon isn't on the list when I filter jungle.
Nah ppl play it jg, like zed jg, i see it occasionally