Not related to this case (about which I have no information), but I've heard that often the death isn't pronounced on the spot so the body can be quickly removed, hence the frequent "died on the way to the hospital."
In Europe (and NA I think same), only doctors can pronounce someone dead. Legally that is. Paramedics / first responders are there to do what’s necessary to deliver the person to the doctors as soon as possible, preferably alive. They do have a medical training, but are often not doctors, hence can’t declare a person deceased.
I've heard something similar and that's why you might hear that they had "injuries incompatible with life" because the person speaking isn't allowed to pronounce that the person is dead.
I'm not a lawyer or doctor or anything, just your average redditor talking about stuff I know almost nothing about, but the gist of it would be that paramedics can't remove a dead body without the cops and/or a doctor signing it off, which would take time to organise (and create a lot of follow-on issues), but they can remove a seriously injured person, and the line between seriously injured and dead is fuzzy.
>I'm not a lawyer or doctor or anything, just your average redditor
I'll take a redditors advice over a professional like a "lawyer" or a "doctor" with their fancy "degrees" any day
yep. I had a family member died at home
I called the paramedics but when they arrived they said they can't do much to help as the person is deceased.
to my surprise, they informed me they actually that I will need to wait for both the police and a doctor to arrive before the body is moved and they asked for the number of our family doctor.
obviously police arrived quick but the doctor took almost an hr arrive in my home and once the doctor arrived. we were able to remove the body to a funeral home.
I thought the whole process was ridiculous that the paramedics does not have authority to actually declare someone deceased.
This seems really odd. I have experience in both Queensland and NT, and they both have a protocol called Recognition of Life Extinct (ROLE).
It's a set of criteria that say, we assessed the patient and found they were clearly and obviously deceased (injuries incompatible with life, hemicorporectomy, fetal maceration, etc.) or rigor mortis/livor mortis/decomposition. Also required are checks of vital signs - airway sounds, heart sounds, asystole on a cardiac monitor, all assessed for a minimum period of time to ensure there's not the faintest signs of life. The patient is then transferred by (? I actually don't know who) for an assesment by a forensic pathologist for cause of death.
It surprises me NSW doesn't have this.
https://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/find-legal-answers/rest-assured-legal-guide-wills-estates-planning-ahead-and-funerals-nsw/funerals
Apparently needs a doctor's note but they can do one in advance.
"When a death at home is expected, particularly in rural settings, doctors can complete a form before the death occurs to make the death certification process easier."
NSW does have this. It’s called verification of death. If they called the doctor it wasn’t to declare them dead, it was to ask if they would write the death certificate so that it didn’t have to go through the coroner
I met an ambulance officer / paramedic who told me that he once responded to an incident where a young girl was dragged a long distance by a bus, when he got there he thought she was very dead, so actually he didn’t rush too much but when he put a heart monitor on her she was still alive. That experience made him take the approach that unless they have rigor that person is still alive and he keeps working on them, he never assumes anymore.
I also saw in an interview a military helicopter paramedic who said no one dies on my helicopter; in other words he just keeps going not matter what, if that want to call it at the hospital they can, but he just keeps working on them until then.
Same in Aus. Only a doctor can "diagnose" death. My doc was telling me that even if someone is found decapitated, a doctor still needs to examine them and declare them dead.
It’s only been a few years that paramedics have been able to verify (maybe 5-8 years, I can’t remember) so a psychiatrist is unlikely to keep up to date with that sort of stuff
Isn't it often the case that someone doesn't legally count as dead until they've been declared so by a doctor or something like that? So someone could have died at 5 PM, but it doesn't count until/unless a doctor says "yeah they carked it at 5"?
once someone gets into an ambulance they have to work on them, they can't be pronounced dead on the way (essentially noone "dies" in an ambulance), they are either dead and we stop working on them before they get in the ambulance or we work on them all the way to the hospital where the doctors pronounce them dead.
After reading some of the comments here, I now understand that.
I only relayed what my fiance's sister told us, as she was there watching it from her office window.
Jeez that's horrific. If you saw any of that, I'm sorry. Do pay extra attention to your mental health over the coming days this stuff can really be damaging. Your work may even offer some support (eg EAP) which could be good to take up if available.
Wait what? There's two?
Someone else jumped an hour ago too next to the Fire and Rescue on Castlereagh st near Hyde Park.
I was in my office and people started crowding the windows.
Obligatory recommendation to play tetris
https://www.psych.ox.ac.uk/news/tetris-used-to-prevent-post-traumatic-stress-symptoms
Take care of yourself and speak about it to a professional
I thought this was a joke because of the similarity of a piece descending and a person falling. But it is a real article.
So it may be better to say that this is good for avoiding PTSD *in some circumstances*.
I know we don't really publicise info about suicides, but is there any way to tell if there has been a spike? Like a dataset or something of recent events? Because there has been an anecdotal increase on the sub and a bunch of mysterious train delays. Is there like a study that compares it with cost of living?
I’ve definitely seen suicide rate compared with interest rate raises.
[2022 suicide data finalising now](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/causes-death-australia/latest-release). We will likely see this year’s around mid 2026.
Rents have gone up \~50% since 2022 with the unprecedented immigration surge. There's likely to be a lot more triggered by poverty.
But at least Albanese made some landlords very, very rich. Or perhaps just even richer?
Australian Bureau of Statistics has info on deaths and causes. I like to go directly to them rather than articles, that way you're not reading someone else's narrative spin
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/latest-release
This is so sad, the same thing has happened two weeks apart at the new parramatta Meriton apartments, one on Good Friday and another two weeks before, 🙇🏼♂️
According to [this article](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13270629/Sydney-kent-street-barangaroo-woman-suicide.html), she threw her dog out the window first.
Very disturbing. Although, I guess if you felt like you didn’t have anyone who could look after it once you’d gone then you might think it was the best option. Terribly sad either way.
I think that's life everywhere - even though life in Sydney is shit, whenever I'm asked "how ya going?" My answer is "I'm always good, I never complain - no one listens!".
That always gets a smile.
I feel like the current financial climate and the state of the rest of the world right now is making for seriously depressing times - and some of us still haven’t really dealt with the shit show that was the pandemic, then returning to normal life. Strange times…
I feel even if she survived, she will have a difficult chance of survival…..
I feel the biggest blow is surviving the actual fact but dying in hospital a few days later…. Rather than to die straight away
[Daily Mail](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13270629/amp/Sydney-kent-street-barangaroo-woman-suicide.html)
Looks like the UK gets the news before we do. According to this, she took her dog with her. Nothing on the Hyde Park incident.
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A dog was thrown over?
Seems weird, maybe someone has thrown the dog and her?
You've got to be a massive piece of shit to hurt an animal that's done nothing if this is the case.
It happens. There was a case not long ago I think in Perth where a lady threw her dog off a shopping roof to spite her partner and it was caught on video.
I have heard that too. Obviously the daily mail doesn't subscribe to that policy. Someone has posted a link in this thread to the dailyfail article and the headline in the url refers to suicide.
\~9-10 people take their own lives every day in Australia, they aren't rare events.
How often do you hear about a suicide in the news?
The media doesn't report on them to prevent copycats. The dailymail sometimes does as they have been the absolute gutter trash of reporting for [100+ years](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8384lBaN3a0).
Not related to this case (about which I have no information), but I've heard that often the death isn't pronounced on the spot so the body can be quickly removed, hence the frequent "died on the way to the hospital."
In Europe (and NA I think same), only doctors can pronounce someone dead. Legally that is. Paramedics / first responders are there to do what’s necessary to deliver the person to the doctors as soon as possible, preferably alive. They do have a medical training, but are often not doctors, hence can’t declare a person deceased.
I've heard something similar and that's why you might hear that they had "injuries incompatible with life" because the person speaking isn't allowed to pronounce that the person is dead.
coroner can too
paramedics can do verification of death now
I'm not a lawyer or doctor or anything, just your average redditor talking about stuff I know almost nothing about, but the gist of it would be that paramedics can't remove a dead body without the cops and/or a doctor signing it off, which would take time to organise (and create a lot of follow-on issues), but they can remove a seriously injured person, and the line between seriously injured and dead is fuzzy.
>I'm not a lawyer or doctor or anything, just your average redditor I'll take a redditors advice over a professional like a "lawyer" or a "doctor" with their fancy "degrees" any day
yep. I had a family member died at home I called the paramedics but when they arrived they said they can't do much to help as the person is deceased. to my surprise, they informed me they actually that I will need to wait for both the police and a doctor to arrive before the body is moved and they asked for the number of our family doctor. obviously police arrived quick but the doctor took almost an hr arrive in my home and once the doctor arrived. we were able to remove the body to a funeral home. I thought the whole process was ridiculous that the paramedics does not have authority to actually declare someone deceased.
This seems really odd. I have experience in both Queensland and NT, and they both have a protocol called Recognition of Life Extinct (ROLE). It's a set of criteria that say, we assessed the patient and found they were clearly and obviously deceased (injuries incompatible with life, hemicorporectomy, fetal maceration, etc.) or rigor mortis/livor mortis/decomposition. Also required are checks of vital signs - airway sounds, heart sounds, asystole on a cardiac monitor, all assessed for a minimum period of time to ensure there's not the faintest signs of life. The patient is then transferred by (? I actually don't know who) for an assesment by a forensic pathologist for cause of death. It surprises me NSW doesn't have this.
https://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/find-legal-answers/rest-assured-legal-guide-wills-estates-planning-ahead-and-funerals-nsw/funerals Apparently needs a doctor's note but they can do one in advance. "When a death at home is expected, particularly in rural settings, doctors can complete a form before the death occurs to make the death certification process easier."
NSW does have this. It’s called verification of death. If they called the doctor it wasn’t to declare them dead, it was to ask if they would write the death certificate so that it didn’t have to go through the coroner
They do. The body is then removed by the statewide mortuary service and taken to a hospital to certify death before transfer to the morgue.
Had the same thing with my father in law. Except it took over 6 hours for the family doctor to get back to them.
I met an ambulance officer / paramedic who told me that he once responded to an incident where a young girl was dragged a long distance by a bus, when he got there he thought she was very dead, so actually he didn’t rush too much but when he put a heart monitor on her she was still alive. That experience made him take the approach that unless they have rigor that person is still alive and he keeps working on them, he never assumes anymore. I also saw in an interview a military helicopter paramedic who said no one dies on my helicopter; in other words he just keeps going not matter what, if that want to call it at the hospital they can, but he just keeps working on them until then.
not true in Australia
And that may be the more sane approach
I was told a story by a policeman about a case where the body was missing the head. Still had to be declared dead by a Dr.
Same in Aus. Only a doctor can "diagnose" death. My doc was telling me that even if someone is found decapitated, a doctor still needs to examine them and declare them dead.
not true. Their death can be verified on the scene, but a doctor is needed for the death certificate which has a cause of death
Lol my psychiatrist is a giant liar then
It’s only been a few years that paramedics have been able to verify (maybe 5-8 years, I can’t remember) so a psychiatrist is unlikely to keep up to date with that sort of stuff
That makes perfect sense too.
If they are dead, their death can be verified on the spot by paramedics.
Isn't it often the case that someone doesn't legally count as dead until they've been declared so by a doctor or something like that? So someone could have died at 5 PM, but it doesn't count until/unless a doctor says "yeah they carked it at 5"?
I think so tbh, unless they’re injuries that are incompatible with life. In which case, you wouldn’t attempt resuscitation because it would be futile.
paramedics have recently been given the ability to fill out a verification of death too
once someone gets into an ambulance they have to work on them, they can't be pronounced dead on the way (essentially noone "dies" in an ambulance), they are either dead and we stop working on them before they get in the ambulance or we work on them all the way to the hospital where the doctors pronounce them dead.
Someone jumped/fell to their death not long ago on Castlereagh st, too. Horrifying.
Oh no. My heart goes out to the family and friends.
Apparently, they survived the fall. Ambulance has taken her.
ambulance taking her doesn’t mean she survived the fall
After reading some of the comments here, I now understand that. I only relayed what my fiance's sister told us, as she was there watching it from her office window.
Hopefully they recover. Fall from heights off a ladder is no joke. Must've been darn lucky to survive jumping off an apartment tower
Lucky is pretty subjective in this case…
Yep... lifetime of care and on wheels in the best case scenario
What a battle she'll have to recovery.
My office had full view, no way she survived her head was completely shattered with brains all over the ground. Fucked up stuff.
Jeez that's horrific. If you saw any of that, I'm sorry. Do pay extra attention to your mental health over the coming days this stuff can really be damaging. Your work may even offer some support (eg EAP) which could be good to take up if available.
Yeah that's completely fucked up. After seeing that, U ok?
Gosh that's tragic.
Thank goodness!
Wait what? There's two? Someone else jumped an hour ago too next to the Fire and Rescue on Castlereagh st near Hyde Park. I was in my office and people started crowding the windows.
Happened 10m from me. Can't believe they didn't fall on someone. Horrifying all around.
Obligatory recommendation to play tetris https://www.psych.ox.ac.uk/news/tetris-used-to-prevent-post-traumatic-stress-symptoms Take care of yourself and speak about it to a professional
I thought this was a joke because of the similarity of a piece descending and a person falling. But it is a real article. So it may be better to say that this is good for avoiding PTSD *in some circumstances*.
Jesus Christ, are you okay? Do you have someone you can talk to?
Oh no. Can't even begin to imagine. Consider getting help for yourself.
That is so sad.
far out :(
Wow, that's crazy.
I know we don't really publicise info about suicides, but is there any way to tell if there has been a spike? Like a dataset or something of recent events? Because there has been an anecdotal increase on the sub and a bunch of mysterious train delays. Is there like a study that compares it with cost of living?
I’ve definitely seen suicide rate compared with interest rate raises. [2022 suicide data finalising now](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/causes-death-australia/latest-release). We will likely see this year’s around mid 2026.
According to this, rates of suicide have remained relatively stable 2013-2022
Rents have gone up \~50% since 2022 with the unprecedented immigration surge. There's likely to be a lot more triggered by poverty. But at least Albanese made some landlords very, very rich. Or perhaps just even richer?
Australian Bureau of Statistics has info on deaths and causes. I like to go directly to them rather than articles, that way you're not reading someone else's narrative spin https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/latest-release
This is so sad, the same thing has happened two weeks apart at the new parramatta Meriton apartments, one on Good Friday and another two weeks before, 🙇🏼♂️
How awful. Hope things get better for her
According to [this article](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13270629/Sydney-kent-street-barangaroo-woman-suicide.html), she threw her dog out the window first.
christ..
Your regular reminder that the Daily Mail is terrible in every way and literally supported Hitler back in the day. Not a reliable source.
Very disturbing. Although, I guess if you felt like you didn’t have anyone who could look after it once you’d gone then you might think it was the best option. Terribly sad either way.
C'mon don't defend this. She could've done it at the vet in a peaceful way. This, is fucking horrifying that poor dog oh my god.
Not defending at all. I guess you’ve never been suicidal, though, if you think people make rational choices in that state.
Life in Sydney right now is absolute shit. Everyone I pass looks miserable.
I think that's life everywhere - even though life in Sydney is shit, whenever I'm asked "how ya going?" My answer is "I'm always good, I never complain - no one listens!". That always gets a smile.
I feel like the current financial climate and the state of the rest of the world right now is making for seriously depressing times - and some of us still haven’t really dealt with the shit show that was the pandemic, then returning to normal life. Strange times…
Yep, completely and utterly miserable.
I feel even if she survived, she will have a difficult chance of survival….. I feel the biggest blow is surviving the actual fact but dying in hospital a few days later…. Rather than to die straight away
[Daily Mail](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13270629/amp/Sydney-kent-street-barangaroo-woman-suicide.html) Looks like the UK gets the news before we do. According to this, she took her dog with her. Nothing on the Hyde Park incident.
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13270629/Sydney-kent-street-barangaroo-woman-suicide.html
Oh man, and she threw her dog off too... That sux
The fuck
My condolences to her family. 😢 I fear for the future with too many changes and never ending pressure.
Oh no!!!! Ohhhh no. Sending love and thoughts to everyone who may need it. This is awful 😔
very sad :( I hope she and all other witnesses etc get support.
A dog was thrown over? Seems weird, maybe someone has thrown the dog and her? You've got to be a massive piece of shit to hurt an animal that's done nothing if this is the case.
It happens. There was a case not long ago I think in Perth where a lady threw her dog off a shopping roof to spite her partner and it was caught on video.
Right? Motherfucker. Idgaf what your problems are. The poor dog. Thing wouldn’t have had a clue what was going on.
Did the dog survive...?
So sad and infuriating if it didn’t, which I think is the case
Rest in peace
Nothing in the news…
Might sound harsh but I think the cops or media don’t want copycat cases so they don’t want to put it in the news
That's mostly it, I've been told that's why they don't put it in the news when someone ends up diving in front of a train.
Suicides dont get published in the news much. It’s an unwritten media policy- encourages too many copy cats otherwise.
I have heard that too. Obviously the daily mail doesn't subscribe to that policy. Someone has posted a link in this thread to the dailyfail article and the headline in the url refers to suicide.
Daily mail is hardly a bastion of journalistic integrity
True. I knew they scraped the bottom of the barrel, this feels like just removing the bottom completely.
\~9-10 people take their own lives every day in Australia, they aren't rare events. How often do you hear about a suicide in the news? The media doesn't report on them to prevent copycats. The dailymail sometimes does as they have been the absolute gutter trash of reporting for [100+ years](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8384lBaN3a0).