So, few things.
1) the ONLY overlap 40K has with the other 2 is the daemon faction… which at this point is solidly under the “grandfathered in” umbrella. The name and vibes are the same, details aren’t (see Slaanesh’s origins for example)
2) AoS and Fantasy have less overlap than you think. NARRATIVELY, there’s a significant amount, because one directly follows the other. But as a business product, they had no competition. Fantasy was thoroughly murdered by GW before AoS released. And now that it’s coming back as the Old World? They’re killing off factions in Aos that would be split too hard, to force a division.
GW’s policy may be shit. But outside of Daemons (and admittedly whatever the hell they’re doing with Tzaangors in 40K to bulk out the Thousand Sons anemic roster), they’re far more consistent at it than you seem to think
Details are the same, slannesh has no origin in fantasy. WD confirmed all the chaos gods are the exact same entities in fantasy whoch is why slannesh likes the elves
>the ONLY overlap 40K has with the other 2 is the daemon faction
Four major factions in Fantasy and AoS being represented nearly the exact same way (in turns of models, units, and named characters) in 40K is not a small overlap by any means
>As a business product, they had no competition.
But AoS and 40K, or Fantasy and 40K, are competing if the games reuse models. If I buy a model that I can use in both AoS and 40K, then GW makes less money than if I bought one AoS-exclusive model and one 40K-exclusive model.
Unless - to play devil's advocate against myself - they encouraged this specifically to get 40K fans into Fantasy? Since 40K drastically outsells Fantasy, they might have wanted to tell 40K fans "well you already have one foot in the door with that Bloodthirster model which you can also use in Fantasy, why not get some other Fantasy models?" Just thinking aloud.
>And now that it’s coming back as the Old World? They’re killing off factions in Aos that would be split too hard, to force a division.
Are they going to kill off AoS entirely? It feels like TOW is just a replacement/reboot for a poorly-selling AoS, just like AoS was meant to be a reboot for a poorly-selling Fantasy.
You misunderstand. I did not say the demon factions. I said the demon FACTION.
It’s just 1 in 40K - any part that’s not the demon is not represented. And back in Fantasy? Before all that new AoS stuff? It was ALSO 1 faction.
The mono-gods, being full things separate from warriors and Beastmen was not a thing in 8th edition of Fantasy.
As far as killing off AoS, they’re not killing the setting. But one of the major factions is being removed, purely so it can be exclusive to the Old World instead (Beastmen).
And again - not arguing whether it’s a GOOD policy. Just that it’s consistent in it’s shittiness, barring the one thing that they made too important to both settings (the chaos gods) to remove from either
Whether or not the Chaos gods are 4 or 1 factions is irrelevant, the overlap between the three settings come from reusing demon units, models, and named characters
>As far as killing off AoS, they’re not killing the setting. But one of the major factions is being removed, purely so it can be exclusive to the Old World instead (Beastmen).
Do they at least have long-term plans to bring the other factions into TOW? Starting off with High Elves but not Dark Elves is nonsense. It would be nice to see Cathay models, and also see Chaos Dwarf/Kislev models again. An aquatic faction like the Idoneth Deepkin would be really cool too, I hope they don't get forgotten about in AoS
There are no mono-god daemon factions in 40K. All four are in the Chaos Daemons codex together. And do you have any actual evidence that AoS sells badly? Sure it’s not as popular as 40K but that’s a tall order, that’s GWs flagship setting and has been for decades.
It’s worth noting that, while this has been the case to a degree for a long time, they’ve only got *really* militant about it more recently. Rumour has it this is more due to interdepartmental squabbling than anything else (and seemingly bonuses were tied to how well a particular game’s stuff is selling, which doesn’t mesh well with models being available in multiple games)- that’s how we ended up with Fantasy missing half of its factions and the like.
It is also worth noting that AoS started off being mostly old Fantasy stuff, and a lot of the characters are shared between settings. However, they’ve been moving to separate the two now, to the point where they brought back a bunch of the old Night Goblin models for TOW because they don’t want people using the newer ones (that are pretty much identical in design, just with better quality) that are available in AoS. They’re seemingly being a bit sloppy about it too- two months ago their official social media said Beastmen would always be in AoS, and yet this month they announced they’re being completely removed. The Old World Orc range also completely lacks Savage Orcs, because they were absorbed into the AoS range, but then pretty much immediately after the OW orcs came out the Savage Orcs were removed from sale anyway.
Daemons seem to get a special exception as they’re shared between all four “main” games.
The reason is Internal studio politics
In GW there are 2 studios, GW studio and Forgeworld Studio. GW studio handle AoS and Wh40k while forgeworld handle Horus Heresy and The Old World.
Recently GW studio really tries to seperate all of its games from Forgeworld, not just Fantasy. For example all of Horus Heresy dreadnaught is not playable in 40k even for Chaos space marine despite what the lore say.
Some say the reason is for this , is because GW want to track each model range/setting sale. If you have model with multiple settings, it is hard to track which setting get that sale
But there is another speculation that said GW studio is trying to kill off Forgeworld studio. That is why they are not lending any model range under them to Forgeworld (example Skaven and lizardmen not playable in The Old World). Another instance is that any Forgeworld model that is still playable in 40k or AoS will have bad rules, cutting the insensitive for people to purchase it. But that is all speculation
They've actually split the studios into more categories now, and GW are actively monitoring their individual progress. Leading to crazy levels of infighting, and content being specific to each era/setting:
* 40k team
* 30k team
* AoS team
* OW team
Then you have FW and the specialist game teams getting dragged along the floor between the 4 above.
It wouldn't even surprise me if in a few years Age of Sigmar and the Old World had far fewer shared models.
For example, if Age of Sigmar gets a new Malerion army. This could mean the end for all the old Dark Elves models in Age of Sigmar and their transfer to the Old World.
Trying to get something reasonable, logical or decent out of Games Workshop is like trying to force a cat to juggle. You can tell it til you're blue in the face, offer all manner of bribes or threats - you're going to be no further along than you were before you started.
GW's decisions are arbitrary based on the current whoever's job it is to work with companies on IP validation.
Everyone in these kinds of positions feels pressured to deny a certain amount of things almost just because, even if nothing is wrong with the concept, in order to justify their position.
Working with art directors and GW you can have someone pitching on the team side pitching who's more knowledgeable on the lore than on the GW side and that won't make a difference. Because GW will pull an arbitrary justification out of its ass on a whim.
GW's obsession with franchise separation is a relatively recent thing. For example, less than a year ago you could use almost anything from Horus Heresy or Forge World in 40k. GW only recently slaughtered that and relegated those things to their own systems or deleted them outright. Beastmen and Savage Orcs being culled from AOS this month is another example.
Why they're doing this is anyone's guess since it just hurts profits and IP recognition, but the rumour is the different departments in GW are competing against eachother and trying to maximize the performance of their own game system at the expense of players being able to use their models across systems
Frankly I think if modern gw could they would change chaos to not be a shared entity.
So, few things. 1) the ONLY overlap 40K has with the other 2 is the daemon faction… which at this point is solidly under the “grandfathered in” umbrella. The name and vibes are the same, details aren’t (see Slaanesh’s origins for example) 2) AoS and Fantasy have less overlap than you think. NARRATIVELY, there’s a significant amount, because one directly follows the other. But as a business product, they had no competition. Fantasy was thoroughly murdered by GW before AoS released. And now that it’s coming back as the Old World? They’re killing off factions in Aos that would be split too hard, to force a division. GW’s policy may be shit. But outside of Daemons (and admittedly whatever the hell they’re doing with Tzaangors in 40K to bulk out the Thousand Sons anemic roster), they’re far more consistent at it than you seem to think
Details are the same, slannesh has no origin in fantasy. WD confirmed all the chaos gods are the exact same entities in fantasy whoch is why slannesh likes the elves
>the ONLY overlap 40K has with the other 2 is the daemon faction Four major factions in Fantasy and AoS being represented nearly the exact same way (in turns of models, units, and named characters) in 40K is not a small overlap by any means >As a business product, they had no competition. But AoS and 40K, or Fantasy and 40K, are competing if the games reuse models. If I buy a model that I can use in both AoS and 40K, then GW makes less money than if I bought one AoS-exclusive model and one 40K-exclusive model. Unless - to play devil's advocate against myself - they encouraged this specifically to get 40K fans into Fantasy? Since 40K drastically outsells Fantasy, they might have wanted to tell 40K fans "well you already have one foot in the door with that Bloodthirster model which you can also use in Fantasy, why not get some other Fantasy models?" Just thinking aloud. >And now that it’s coming back as the Old World? They’re killing off factions in Aos that would be split too hard, to force a division. Are they going to kill off AoS entirely? It feels like TOW is just a replacement/reboot for a poorly-selling AoS, just like AoS was meant to be a reboot for a poorly-selling Fantasy.
You misunderstand. I did not say the demon factions. I said the demon FACTION. It’s just 1 in 40K - any part that’s not the demon is not represented. And back in Fantasy? Before all that new AoS stuff? It was ALSO 1 faction. The mono-gods, being full things separate from warriors and Beastmen was not a thing in 8th edition of Fantasy. As far as killing off AoS, they’re not killing the setting. But one of the major factions is being removed, purely so it can be exclusive to the Old World instead (Beastmen). And again - not arguing whether it’s a GOOD policy. Just that it’s consistent in it’s shittiness, barring the one thing that they made too important to both settings (the chaos gods) to remove from either
Whether or not the Chaos gods are 4 or 1 factions is irrelevant, the overlap between the three settings come from reusing demon units, models, and named characters >As far as killing off AoS, they’re not killing the setting. But one of the major factions is being removed, purely so it can be exclusive to the Old World instead (Beastmen). Do they at least have long-term plans to bring the other factions into TOW? Starting off with High Elves but not Dark Elves is nonsense. It would be nice to see Cathay models, and also see Chaos Dwarf/Kislev models again. An aquatic faction like the Idoneth Deepkin would be really cool too, I hope they don't get forgotten about in AoS
There are no mono-god daemon factions in 40K. All four are in the Chaos Daemons codex together. And do you have any actual evidence that AoS sells badly? Sure it’s not as popular as 40K but that’s a tall order, that’s GWs flagship setting and has been for decades.
Everything I’ve heard suggests that AoS has been doing quite well financially.
It’s worth noting that, while this has been the case to a degree for a long time, they’ve only got *really* militant about it more recently. Rumour has it this is more due to interdepartmental squabbling than anything else (and seemingly bonuses were tied to how well a particular game’s stuff is selling, which doesn’t mesh well with models being available in multiple games)- that’s how we ended up with Fantasy missing half of its factions and the like. It is also worth noting that AoS started off being mostly old Fantasy stuff, and a lot of the characters are shared between settings. However, they’ve been moving to separate the two now, to the point where they brought back a bunch of the old Night Goblin models for TOW because they don’t want people using the newer ones (that are pretty much identical in design, just with better quality) that are available in AoS. They’re seemingly being a bit sloppy about it too- two months ago their official social media said Beastmen would always be in AoS, and yet this month they announced they’re being completely removed. The Old World Orc range also completely lacks Savage Orcs, because they were absorbed into the AoS range, but then pretty much immediately after the OW orcs came out the Savage Orcs were removed from sale anyway. Daemons seem to get a special exception as they’re shared between all four “main” games.
The reason is Internal studio politics In GW there are 2 studios, GW studio and Forgeworld Studio. GW studio handle AoS and Wh40k while forgeworld handle Horus Heresy and The Old World. Recently GW studio really tries to seperate all of its games from Forgeworld, not just Fantasy. For example all of Horus Heresy dreadnaught is not playable in 40k even for Chaos space marine despite what the lore say. Some say the reason is for this , is because GW want to track each model range/setting sale. If you have model with multiple settings, it is hard to track which setting get that sale But there is another speculation that said GW studio is trying to kill off Forgeworld studio. That is why they are not lending any model range under them to Forgeworld (example Skaven and lizardmen not playable in The Old World). Another instance is that any Forgeworld model that is still playable in 40k or AoS will have bad rules, cutting the insensitive for people to purchase it. But that is all speculation
They've actually split the studios into more categories now, and GW are actively monitoring their individual progress. Leading to crazy levels of infighting, and content being specific to each era/setting: * 40k team * 30k team * AoS team * OW team Then you have FW and the specialist game teams getting dragged along the floor between the 4 above.
It wouldn't even surprise me if in a few years Age of Sigmar and the Old World had far fewer shared models. For example, if Age of Sigmar gets a new Malerion army. This could mean the end for all the old Dark Elves models in Age of Sigmar and their transfer to the Old World.
Trying to get something reasonable, logical or decent out of Games Workshop is like trying to force a cat to juggle. You can tell it til you're blue in the face, offer all manner of bribes or threats - you're going to be no further along than you were before you started.
GW's decisions are arbitrary based on the current whoever's job it is to work with companies on IP validation. Everyone in these kinds of positions feels pressured to deny a certain amount of things almost just because, even if nothing is wrong with the concept, in order to justify their position. Working with art directors and GW you can have someone pitching on the team side pitching who's more knowledgeable on the lore than on the GW side and that won't make a difference. Because GW will pull an arbitrary justification out of its ass on a whim.
GW's obsession with franchise separation is a relatively recent thing. For example, less than a year ago you could use almost anything from Horus Heresy or Forge World in 40k. GW only recently slaughtered that and relegated those things to their own systems or deleted them outright. Beastmen and Savage Orcs being culled from AOS this month is another example. Why they're doing this is anyone's guess since it just hurts profits and IP recognition, but the rumour is the different departments in GW are competing against eachother and trying to maximize the performance of their own game system at the expense of players being able to use their models across systems