Yeah. Respect to the guy who’s done this; an amazing contribution to animal welfare that goes far beyond my comparatively underwhelming contribution of eating cabbage soup and lentils.
Not even comparatively. You're saving hundreds of animals every year by eating vegan. Trying to do a hedonic calculus on that is insane to me. You wouldn't do that if it was humans instead of animals.
Fair enough. I've gone through phases of lots of self-deprecation myself. The past few years though I've been really introspecting on it and I think it's ultimately self-sabotage after a point. Yes, it can be good for breaking the ice but I think in excess it just cedes power to awful people. Vegans are the last people who should be overly self-deprecating. We're fucking awesome and we're doing so much good for the world. We should feel good about that and our default should be self-praise if anything.
holy shit this is fantastic news. regardless of veganism blue blood is very difficult and expensive to produce. it's also sad this thing is so many millions of years old and we bleed them dry at an endangering rate.
100%! Not only are they drained over their blood, but another million get killed and used as bait for whelk and eels. We need to ban both practices ASAP.
That's the crux of the issue. Both practices need to stop. Currently horseshoe crabs are protected from being used as bait and their populations maintained through their pharmacological testing needs. If they no longer are required for pharmacological testing, it will just likely cause the extinction of them as they'll lose their protection and there'll be a free for all using them as bait by fishers. So we need to be very careful that replacing them for endotoxin testing doesn't have even worse consequences for them. It's a sad world.
Actually, they are currently used as bait in most states that have horseshoe crab populations. Bait kills more of them, but both forms of exploitation are happening simultaneously. Getting rid of one does not enhance the other.
Ah sure. I may have been misinformed about some of the protections they have then. I was under the impression that bait probably killed more of them, but they'd probably have been extinct already had they not had a use in the pharmaceutical industry. Not that their lives in that situation is good at all though.
Yeah, I believe it was. Though I suppose the bottom line of their justification was broken down to the usual argument of, "without us using them for our needs and torturing them, they wouldn't even exist" as is used for so many other animals. Quite obvious when I look back on it now.
I just hope one day they can be fully protected. This news is certainly good news and I hope it means less suffering for the crabs.
I’m pretty sure they’d have to be raised in a sterile environment for their blood to be used in a medical setting (like mice specifically bred for testing). I remember reading articles and talking to my colleagues about the horseshoe crab when I found out about this, back when I worked in biotech. I couldn’t believe it. Glad they’re developing alternatives!
That would surprise me, because you have to have a license for the things you fish/take out of the water (including crustaceans and shellfish). And that license covers the one thing a boat is fishing (i.e. salmon, crab, shrimp). And anything not included in that license HAS to be thrown back, dead or alive. That’s called by-catch. And that’s why seafood is especially bad for the environment, and our oceans are so overfished. Shrimp are the worst for by-catch.
Oh yeah, this is definitely what we need more of because those poor horseshoe crabs deserve a better life than just being harvested for their blood! We can save human lives without forcing another species to sacrifice their own for us!
There has been many attempts at this over the years, hopefully this one will pan out because endotoxin testing is vital for the healthcare industry. Without it you'd see a lot more dead people and product recalls from contaminated batches of all kinds of otherwise life-saving drugs.
Yeah. Respect to the guy who’s done this; an amazing contribution to animal welfare that goes far beyond my comparatively underwhelming contribution of eating cabbage soup and lentils.
That's not an underwhelming contribution at all. What are you even saying?
*comparatively*, in that I just use a different aisle at the supermarket.
Not even comparatively. You're saving hundreds of animals every year by eating vegan. Trying to do a hedonic calculus on that is insane to me. You wouldn't do that if it was humans instead of animals.
True, and thank you for your positivity. What I lack in B12 I make up for in self-deprecation.
Fair enough. I've gone through phases of lots of self-deprecation myself. The past few years though I've been really introspecting on it and I think it's ultimately self-sabotage after a point. Yes, it can be good for breaking the ice but I think in excess it just cedes power to awful people. Vegans are the last people who should be overly self-deprecating. We're fucking awesome and we're doing so much good for the world. We should feel good about that and our default should be self-praise if anything.
Wonderful. Fair play to them.
holy shit this is fantastic news. regardless of veganism blue blood is very difficult and expensive to produce. it's also sad this thing is so many millions of years old and we bleed them dry at an endangering rate.
Bravo, bloodletting horseshoe crabs is so dystopian
So glad to hear this. I've been worrying we'd drovrs them extinct. This needs to go into production ASAP, and the "crabs" need legal protection.
100%! Not only are they drained over their blood, but another million get killed and used as bait for whelk and eels. We need to ban both practices ASAP.
That's the crux of the issue. Both practices need to stop. Currently horseshoe crabs are protected from being used as bait and their populations maintained through their pharmacological testing needs. If they no longer are required for pharmacological testing, it will just likely cause the extinction of them as they'll lose their protection and there'll be a free for all using them as bait by fishers. So we need to be very careful that replacing them for endotoxin testing doesn't have even worse consequences for them. It's a sad world.
Actually, they are currently used as bait in most states that have horseshoe crab populations. Bait kills more of them, but both forms of exploitation are happening simultaneously. Getting rid of one does not enhance the other.
Ah sure. I may have been misinformed about some of the protections they have then. I was under the impression that bait probably killed more of them, but they'd probably have been extinct already had they not had a use in the pharmaceutical industry. Not that their lives in that situation is good at all though.
I don’t think it’s your fault. I’m sure some pharma person said that, and it would be a persuasive argument to some extent if it were true.
Yeah, I believe it was. Though I suppose the bottom line of their justification was broken down to the usual argument of, "without us using them for our needs and torturing them, they wouldn't even exist" as is used for so many other animals. Quite obvious when I look back on it now. I just hope one day they can be fully protected. This news is certainly good news and I hope it means less suffering for the crabs.
I had heard of this practice awhile back and it always bothered me yet not too many knew about this. This is huge!!! Thanks for sharing.
That's good news I hope they now implement it as standard.
I’m pretty sure they’d have to be raised in a sterile environment for their blood to be used in a medical setting (like mice specifically bred for testing). I remember reading articles and talking to my colleagues about the horseshoe crab when I found out about this, back when I worked in biotech. I couldn’t believe it. Glad they’re developing alternatives!
You’d be amazed, but they pay fisherman to pull them right out of the water!
That would surprise me, because you have to have a license for the things you fish/take out of the water (including crustaceans and shellfish). And that license covers the one thing a boat is fishing (i.e. salmon, crab, shrimp). And anything not included in that license HAS to be thrown back, dead or alive. That’s called by-catch. And that’s why seafood is especially bad for the environment, and our oceans are so overfished. Shrimp are the worst for by-catch.
By catch often isn’t an issue here because many fisherman collect them by hand.
Oh yeah, this is definitely what we need more of because those poor horseshoe crabs deserve a better life than just being harvested for their blood! We can save human lives without forcing another species to sacrifice their own for us!
There has been many attempts at this over the years, hopefully this one will pan out because endotoxin testing is vital for the healthcare industry. Without it you'd see a lot more dead people and product recalls from contaminated batches of all kinds of otherwise life-saving drugs.
Thank you Eli Lily. We’re very proud of you!
You know they still animal test right?