Too much calcium can also cause kidney stones.
Drink lots of water and eat a lot of fruit. Lots of plant milks are calcium fortified without oxalate if you are that concerned. Cooking also reduces oxalates.
I've been getting kidney stones for longer than I've been vegan. The best thing you can do is drink lots and lots of water. Flush the system frequently and things don't have a chance to build up, or if they do, they stay small enough that you just pass them without noticing. I've passed a couple stones that I only noticed when I heard it hit the urinal.
There are different types of stones, though. Mine are the kind that are caused by coffee and other oxalates. So I drink two or three times as much water after any coffee I drink, and then also just hydrate like a maniac throughout the day. If you have a stone and can get it analyzed to determine the type, you'll know better how to adjust your diet. Until then, just drink lots of water.
Ok listen let me say right now that I am not a doctor. Like, not even a little. You should consult an actual urologist or nephrologist for the best info.
With that out of the way, yes, I do believe those are the type I also get. I haven't had one analyzed in a long time and luckily the only intervention I've needed to pass stones have been medications and not procedures. After my first really bad stone, I cut down drastically on coffee and significantly increased my water consumption and that has been the biggest help in preventing stones from becoming big enough where I needed to have them broken up. Last one I passed was the biggest one for sure, but I was able to pass it.
Yeah this is what I've been hearing that plenty of water is really the solution. It's just hard for me to drink at least 2-3L of water during the day unless i chug water at breakfast, lunch and dinner when I get a break which would suffice?
Plants have calcium. Eat something green regularly and you should be ok. On top of that you should be taking a supplement for b12 and the multivitamin will usually have a little calcium too.
??? „Something green regularly” doesn’t cut it at all. You need to consume at least 3 cups per day of foods rich in well-absorbed calcium. 1000-1200 mg per day. Calcium set tofu, which is highest source of calcium in plant foods, has 250mg per 100g. https://www.theveganrd.com/vegan-nutrition-101/vegan-nutrition-primers/calcium-a-vegan-nutrition-primer/
Calcium deficiency is really common among vegans (high rate of bone fractures suggests) and you cant easily test calcium level because in case of deficiency it leaks out of bones into bloodstream.
If you plan to not live to a ripe old age, or plan to do little more than sit on your front porch, then it's fine to not pay attention to this.
If you plan to get old and do strenuous activities like, say, gardening, it might behoove you to listen to the commenter above.
Just got out of the hospital with my aunt who broke her arm when she tripped and stumbled into the wall after grabbing a trowel from the shed. It's not healing well. Low calcium. Low-density bones, and not rebuilding itself.
It's easy to get calcium. Tofu has a lot of it, some low oxalate greens like kale and broccoli has a little bit too.
But no one recommends carbonated water for some reason, you can find brands with like 600+calcium per liter,which is nuts and can substitute soda, while being healthy.
Tofu only has calcium if it uses calcium sulfate as a couagulant. Chinese tofu tends to while Japanese tofu tends to us Nigari, which is mostly MgCl and MgSO4
There was an excellent youtube video today by a plant based doctor on kidney health. I always learn a lot from Dr. Esser. [https://www.youtube.com/live/79d9NiWDT8s?si=gtdIXwJE0xd8pfOe](https://www.youtube.com/live/79d9NiWDT8s?si=gtdIXwJE0xd8pfOe)
Animal protein is one of the main causes of kidney stones. As long as you’re not eating a stupid amount of high oxalate foods like spinach in smoothies every day, you’ll be fine
That's not even remotely true. Calcium oxalate stones are the most common and they're caused by fruits and vegetables, nuts and seeds, grains, legumes, and even chocolate and tea. Some examples of foods that have high levels of oxalate include peanuts, rhubarb, spinach, beets, Swiss chard, chocolate and sweet potatoes.
I assume you got that info from the Kidney website, since that blurb is word for word what is posted on the site. But you left out some crucial info.
“Oxalate is naturally found in many foods, including fruits and vegetables, nuts and seeds, grains, legumes, and even chocolate and tea. Some examples of foods that have high levels of oxalate include peanuts, rhubarb, spinach, beets, Swiss chard, chocolate and sweet potatoes. *Limiting intake of these foods may be beneficial for people who form calcium oxalate stones which is the leading type of kidney stone.*”
Key words are highlighted.
It also goes on to say:
“Eat and drink calcium foods such as milk, yogurt, and some cheese and oxalate-rich foods together during a meal. The oxalate and calcium from the foods are more likely to bind to one another in the stomach and intestines before entering the kidneys. This will make it less likely that kidney stones will form.”
Eating calcium with high oxalate foods basically mitigates risk. And these recommendations are only for people who develop these stones.
Also, if you scrolled further you would have seen the bit about the second leading cause of kidney stones, Uric Acid stones:
“Red meat, organ meats, and shellfish have high amounts of a natural chemical compound known as purines. High purine intake leads to a higher production of uric acid and a larger acid load for the kidneys to excrete. Higher uric acid excretion leads to more acidic urine. The high acid concentration of the urine makes it easier for uric acid stones to form.
To prevent uric acid stones, cut down on high-purine foods such as red meat, organ meats, beer/alcoholic beverages, meat-based gravies, sardines, anchovies and shellfish. Follow a healthy diet plan that has mostly vegetables and fruits, whole grains, and low-fat dairy products. Limit sugar-sweetened foods and drinks, especially those that have high fructose corn syrup. Limit alcohol because it can increase uric acid levels in the blood and avoid short term diets for the same reason. Decreasing animal-based protein and eating more fruits and vegetables will help decrease urine acidity and this may help reduce the chance for uric acid stone formation.”
Convenient how you cherry picked.
https://www.kidney.org/atoz/content/diet
🙌 thanks for sharing. There are many calcium rich plant foods that are low in oxalates like kale, broccoli, white beans, cashews (when eaten moderately). Oxalates can be cooked out too. The variety and richness of a vegan diet is one of my fav things about being completely plant-based.
Sadly, you have to have self-awareness to have shame. This chronically online guy has none of that, lmao. This is his schtick: making claims without linking to sources and copy-pasting the blurbs that support his claim without bothering to include all the context. Or without bothering to read the entire source, because if he read the entire source he’d find it actually proved him wrong. I get SO much secondhand embarrassment. Unfortunately he replies to like every topic here.
Glad it tickled ya! I was mentally facepalming the entire time I wrote it. 😂
I’m not the person who you originally replied to bro, and also your reading comprehension clearly isn’t the best since they didn’t say it was THE leading cause—their literal words are “ONE of the main causes.” But I shouldn’t be surprised about this since you clearly don’t read the entirely of the article you copy chunks out of.
And again, if you read further, you would see the part where you can easily counteract the risks of high oxalate foods by eating calcium with it. And this is only for people who are susceptible to stones in the first place.
Lol sorry I thought you were the cherry picker. While eating high oxalate foods with calcium sounds like an elegant solution, the calcium is bonding with the oxalate and they are both being pissed out. So you're not getting any other benefit from the calcium. Vegan diets already tend to be deficient in calcium, so this is far from ideal.
They didn’t cherry pick, you just didn’t comprehend what they wrote. You were drooling for that “gotcha!” and put words into their mouth to get it.
Also, most of the US population is deficient in calcium. This isn’t a vegan-specific issue. My calcium is great btw.
Also, again, this only applies to high oxalate foods, and only to people who are susceptible to stones. If you’re getting adequate calcium then you’ll absorb plenty. Most foods are not so crazy high in oxalates that ALL the calcium will be used up binding to oxalates, lol, and you can cook oxalates out of food. And if you eat a balanced diet as a vegan, you’ll get plenty of calcium. Hell my tofu last night had 60% of my DV value, and that’s one meal and not counting the veggies I ate and the oat milk I drank.
If you’re not binging copious amounts of spinach daily, you’ll be fine. And if you drink a lot of water, you’re doing even better! Personally, I’ve never developed a stone (and my insides are all clear according to a recent MRI) and none of the vegans I know have had a stone either. I know plenty of omnivores who’ve had them, though.
What I find most interesting is the purines, though, and the dietary recommendations that this Kidney organization listed! Which you have yet to touch upon. (:
No nephrologist in their right mind will advocate for a meat based diet for mitigating kidney stones. A vegetarian diet with low fat dairy for calcium is the go to prescription for kidney stone formers.
Risk of Kidney Stones: Influence of Dietary Factors, Dietary Patterns, and Vegetarian–Vegan Diets
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7146511/
>Available scientific evidence agrees on the harmful effects of high meat/animal protein intake and low calcium diets, whereas high content of fruits and vegetables associated with a balanced intake of low-fat dairy products carries the lowest risk for incident kidney stones. Furthermore, a balanced vegetarian diet with dairy products seems to be the most protective diet for kidney stone patients. Since no study prospectively examined the effects of vegan diets on nephrolithiasis risk factors, more scientific work should be made to define the best diet for different kidney stone phenotypes.
Optimum Nutrition for Kidney Stone Disease
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1548559512002212
>Idiopathic calcium oxalate stone-formers are advised to reduce ingestion of animal protein, oxalate, and sodium while maintaining intake of 800 to 1200 mg of calcium and increasing consumption of citrate and potassium. There are few data regarding dietary therapy of calcium phosphate stones. Whether the inhibitory effect of citrate sufficiently counteracts increasing urine pH to justify more intake of potassium and citrate is not clear. Reduction of sodium intake to decrease urinary calcium excretion would also be expected to decrease calcium phosphate stone recurrence. Conversely, the most important urine variable in the causation of uric acid stones is low urine pH, linked to insulin resistance as a component of obesity and the metabolic syndrome. The mainstay of therapy is weight loss and urinary alkalinization provided by a more vegetarian diet. Reduction in animal protein intake will reduce purine ingestion and uric acid excretion. For cystine stones, restriction of animal protein is associated with reduction in intake of the cystine precursor methionine as well as cystine. Reduction of urine sodium results in less urine cystine. Ingestion of vegetables high in organic anion content, such as citrate and malate, should be associated with higher urine pH and fewer stones because the amino acid cystine is soluble in more alkaline urine. Because of their infectious origin, diet has no definitive role for struvite stones except for avoiding urinary alkalinization, which may worsen their development.
Eta: calcium eaten with oxalate is not pissed out. It's pooped out since it forms calcium oxalate in the digestive system itself, and cannot get into the blood and urine. This is why nephrologists ask to eat more calcium if there are calcium oxalate stones in kidneys.
Watch the big ones - potatoes, peanut butter, tofu, and leafy veggies will stab your filteri bois.
Use kale for your salads and sandwiches, eat sunflower, pumpkin, walnut, or pistachio, and pick either tofu or peanut butter. For fruits, check online for low oxalate content. Pineapple, blueberries, watermelon, mango.
You'll also want to drink a beer a day, apparently the way beer interacts reduces your risk. Coffee also, for some reason.
My next kidney will probably kill me, the last one nearly did. It's been five years since then.
>You'll also want to drink a beer a day, apparently the way beer interacts reduces your risk. Coffee also, for some reason.
I want to believe this is true, so I'm not gonna look into it.
Honestly the studies about drinking beer are interesting. I thought that because its alcohol that it would dehydrate one more but maybe its because your kidneys are working harder to clear our the alcohol
bumping because this is a concern of mine as well and i’d like to hear more. from what i’ve read, as long as you’re drinking a lot of water you should be fine. i try to drink water whenever i eat and right when i wake up to keep my body constantly flushing
Yeah and that's all my doctor said... just drink 2-3L of water a day which honestly I am having a hard time with but trying harder to count the amount of litres I drink in a day so that I can flush the stones out (hopefully soon).
Drink lots of water is the main thing.
If you're particularly worried about oxalate, drain and change the water you're cooking your leafy green in, and try eat them alongside something with citric acid - garlic and lemon dressing is pretty good
Orange juice also helps prevent stones for another reason on top of the citric acid, but I can't remember exactly what the chemical was.
There are other sources of calcium too.
Sesame seeds - which means humus if it's strong enough and most tofu is set with calcium. Plus depending where you live, a lot of bread and plant milks are fortified.
And there's always supplements, but track your diet a bit too make sure you're not giving yourself too much.
Greens like kale, bok choy, broccoli are high in calcium, but low oxalates. Tofu is also high in calcium if calcium sulfate was used to curdle it. Other greens like collard greens have high calcium content, but high in oxalates.
I esp love broccoli sprouts. High in sulforaphane, that has so many health benefits. If you’re into sprouting, try onion sprouts too! That oniony flavor is so good. Sprouts in general are easy to grow and delicious as a topper on most dishes, and esp in sandwiches.
Ohh! White beans, like cannellini are high in calcium too. Throw some canned ones in salads, soups, puree and use as pasta sauce or other dishes, yums. Cashews have a higher calcium content too.
Oh sprouts this is a good one and I like those. Cannellini beans- I guess I would have to cook them (which I do anyway) to decrease the oxalate content.
As a vegan with a history of kidney stones, the only answer is: water
Vegan sources of calcium, which can be better absorbed than animal sources of calcium, are typically the rich, leafy greens that are full of oxalates…which is the second ingredient in calcium-oxalate kidney stones…
So, water. I drink lots of water to keep things flushing out of my body and not sitting and forming crystals. I also limit the things I can (lemon, tea) that also lead to stones.
Have you had a kidney stone? If not, I wouldn’t worry too much about this beyond staying hydrated. There are different kinds of kidney stones that can be caused by a bazillion different things, so usually if you get one they figure out what your stones are made of and then you make dietary adjustments if necessary.
I used to get several kidney stones per year and I haven’t had one since going vegan in 2017 (was vegetarian since 2008). Obviously that’s just anecdotal, and I’m not claiming that veganism has anything to do with my lack of kidney stones, but it definitely didn’t worsen the problem.
I have recently developed gout though, so I guess my body doesn’t do too well with crystallization of any kind.
But yeah, drink lots of water.
I want to validate that you are right that carrots and tahini don’t have very much calcium compared to what you need. I agree with you.
I also want to take the opportunity to point out that the USA listed requirements for calcium are 2-3x higher than the UN recommends and most countries in the world. You don’t need nearly as much calcium as the USA recommends and science supports that.
But yea, if you think you’re getting your RDI from carrots you gotta look a bit more closely…
I am prone to kidney stones. Currently, I have 6, 3 on each side. Peeing blood for 6 months, no buneno.
Dark leafy green veggies, legumes, nuts, are highest in oxalates. Boiling and discarding the water is recommended for most high oxalate foods..
Drink lots of water. I have to drink 3-4L a day. Lemon water is great to drink.. it's also important to consume calcium. Depending on what type of stone you have, calcium can be your friend or not. ( a Dr can anayalze your stone and tell you)
If you are prone to stones like I am, do not take a multivitamin. Getting more than 1 gramof vitamin c increases stone production by 40%.
plant milks are fortified with calcium because dairy proteins are acidic and leach calcium from the bones. Thinking dairy is where calcium comes from is purely the effect of mass marketing. It has been repeated over and over for so long that people just started believing it.
It is so untrue, that the places/cultures that consume the most dairy, also have the highest incidence of osteoporosis.
Curious if you are just worried because of your research, or if you genuinely have reason to be concerned (e.g. bloodwork results).
I've had kidney stones twice before switching to a vegan lifestyle- once at 19 and again at 23. I'm now 30 and do still worry that I'll get another one but haven't had any issues since the last time.
Just eat a varied diet. Get a fortified cereal, eat some oranges and you should be able to get enough. Calcium absorption drops the more you intake so more is not always more.
Go to the doctor, tell them you're vegan and ask them to include b12, calcium, vitamin d if they're not testing those already in your labs (calcium is generally standard).
I’ve been getting kidney stones since for 20 years, vegan for 3 years. My last checkups with my urologist explained to me that I can continue being vegan or with any type of diet as long as I drink over 2 liters of water per day, but aim for 3. Your body cannot make them if you stick to that is what I was told, and it’s been working.
Look deeper. Your body is out of balance and the stones are forming due to a deficit not an over abundance of calcium. The liquid in your body is leeching calcium from your bones and it appears in your kidneys when the blood is filtered. It’s a very common thing due to the bad things we consume in modern society. Look at your processed food intake and examine whether you are getting a well balanced diet as a vegan.
Get one of these:
[https://www.traveluniverse.com.au/camelbak-rogue-light-2-hydration-pack-black-silver/CB2403001000?gad\_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD9fiOUMIEQvqsPO4nZdalIdGcxZy&gclid=Cj0KCQjw3ZayBhDRARIsAPWzx8o\_pfRzgmEc9pQQYcOFAVtRuoIdbqzNEalWUbbXvbEzQY970ed7gm8aAlm7EALw\_wcB](https://www.traveluniverse.com.au/camelbak-rogue-light-2-hydration-pack-black-silver/CB2403001000?gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD9fiOUMIEQvqsPO4nZdalIdGcxZy&gclid=Cj0KCQjw3ZayBhDRARIsAPWzx8o_pfRzgmEc9pQQYcOFAVtRuoIdbqzNEalWUbbXvbEzQY970ed7gm8aAlm7EALw_wcB)
And sip water out of it frequently. You will easily get 2 litres.
If anyone here is facing recurring kidney stone problems due to calcium, ask your doctor to do a test for Hyperparathyroidism [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperparathyroidism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperparathyroidism)
This happens when one of the glands in the neck goes bad and produces too much hormone which increases the level of calcium in your blood which in turn gets converted to kidney stones.
I had a problem with recurring kidney stones and most of the doctors asked me to drink plenty of water and be careful with my diet. Luckily one of the doctor checked my blood work and told me to go for the surgery. After the surgery I haven't faced the problem again.
A vegetarian diet with low fat dairy for calcium is the go to prescription for oxalate kidney stone formers. If that's not possible, go for some non pill vegan calcium sources like fortified soy milk.
Risk of Kidney Stones: Influence of Dietary Factors, Dietary Patterns, and Vegetarian–Vegan Diets
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7146511/
>Available scientific evidence agrees on the harmful effects of high meat/animal protein intake and low calcium diets, whereas high content of fruits and vegetables associated with a balanced intake of low-fat dairy products carries the lowest risk for incident kidney stones. Furthermore, a balanced vegetarian diet with dairy products seems to be the most protective diet for kidney stone patients. Since no study prospectively examined the effects of vegan diets on nephrolithiasis risk factors, more scientific work should be made to define the best diet for different kidney stone phenotypes.
Optimum Nutrition for Kidney Stone Disease
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1548559512002212
>Idiopathic calcium oxalate stone-formers are advised to reduce ingestion of animal protein, oxalate, and sodium while maintaining intake of 800 to 1200 mg of calcium and increasing consumption of citrate and potassium. There are few data regarding dietary therapy of calcium phosphate stones. Whether the inhibitory effect of citrate sufficiently counteracts increasing urine pH to justify more intake of potassium and citrate is not clear. Reduction of sodium intake to decrease urinary calcium excretion would also be expected to decrease calcium phosphate stone recurrence. Conversely, the most important urine variable in the causation of uric acid stones is low urine pH, linked to insulin resistance as a component of obesity and the metabolic syndrome. The mainstay of therapy is weight loss and urinary alkalinization provided by a more vegetarian diet. Reduction in animal protein intake will reduce purine ingestion and uric acid excretion. For cystine stones, restriction of animal protein is associated with reduction in intake of the cystine precursor methionine as well as cystine. Reduction of urine sodium results in less urine cystine. Ingestion of vegetables high in organic anion content, such as citrate and malate, should be associated with higher urine pH and fewer stones because the amino acid cystine is soluble in more alkaline urine. Because of their infectious origin, diet has no definitive role for struvite stones except for avoiding urinary alkalinization, which may worsen their development.
I'm advocating the position of nephrologists and kidney associations. If you don't want to include dairy, use calcium fortified foods like I clearly mentioned.
Too much calcium can also cause kidney stones. Drink lots of water and eat a lot of fruit. Lots of plant milks are calcium fortified without oxalate if you are that concerned. Cooking also reduces oxalates.
I've been getting kidney stones for longer than I've been vegan. The best thing you can do is drink lots and lots of water. Flush the system frequently and things don't have a chance to build up, or if they do, they stay small enough that you just pass them without noticing. I've passed a couple stones that I only noticed when I heard it hit the urinal. There are different types of stones, though. Mine are the kind that are caused by coffee and other oxalates. So I drink two or three times as much water after any coffee I drink, and then also just hydrate like a maniac throughout the day. If you have a stone and can get it analyzed to determine the type, you'll know better how to adjust your diet. Until then, just drink lots of water.
I get calcium oxalate stones, last one has to be broken up and it's hell, are those the ones from coffee?
Ok listen let me say right now that I am not a doctor. Like, not even a little. You should consult an actual urologist or nephrologist for the best info. With that out of the way, yes, I do believe those are the type I also get. I haven't had one analyzed in a long time and luckily the only intervention I've needed to pass stones have been medications and not procedures. After my first really bad stone, I cut down drastically on coffee and significantly increased my water consumption and that has been the biggest help in preventing stones from becoming big enough where I needed to have them broken up. Last one I passed was the biggest one for sure, but I was able to pass it.
Yeah this is what I've been hearing that plenty of water is really the solution. It's just hard for me to drink at least 2-3L of water during the day unless i chug water at breakfast, lunch and dinner when I get a break which would suffice?
Plants have calcium. Eat something green regularly and you should be ok. On top of that you should be taking a supplement for b12 and the multivitamin will usually have a little calcium too.
??? „Something green regularly” doesn’t cut it at all. You need to consume at least 3 cups per day of foods rich in well-absorbed calcium. 1000-1200 mg per day. Calcium set tofu, which is highest source of calcium in plant foods, has 250mg per 100g. https://www.theveganrd.com/vegan-nutrition-101/vegan-nutrition-primers/calcium-a-vegan-nutrition-primer/ Calcium deficiency is really common among vegans (high rate of bone fractures suggests) and you cant easily test calcium level because in case of deficiency it leaks out of bones into bloodstream.
Or I can not stress myself out about this.
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You guys aren't even reading what I posted. I recommended they take a multivitamin in my original reply.
Those who are prone to kidney stones should not be taking a multivitamin. I am prone to kidney stones and trying to still stay vegan is difficult
Multivitamin doesn’t cut it either. High dose of calcium messes up iron absorption, it’s not possible to have one pill to cover everything.
Or, if you live in the US, you can just regularly consume plant milk and get necessary vitamins that way.
If you plan to not live to a ripe old age, or plan to do little more than sit on your front porch, then it's fine to not pay attention to this. If you plan to get old and do strenuous activities like, say, gardening, it might behoove you to listen to the commenter above. Just got out of the hospital with my aunt who broke her arm when she tripped and stumbled into the wall after grabbing a trowel from the shed. It's not healing well. Low calcium. Low-density bones, and not rebuilding itself.
We also need more vegans working out. Resistance training is huge for bone density. Low BMI and low physical activity is a recipe for bird bones.
Preach on ❤️
It's easy to get calcium. Tofu has a lot of it, some low oxalate greens like kale and broccoli has a little bit too. But no one recommends carbonated water for some reason, you can find brands with like 600+calcium per liter,which is nuts and can substitute soda, while being healthy.
Tofu only has calcium if it uses calcium sulfate as a couagulant. Chinese tofu tends to while Japanese tofu tends to us Nigari, which is mostly MgCl and MgSO4
I was thinking that people already knew that, but good to point it out. Btw, I use a tofu which has calcium chlorine (Cl) and Mg chlorine.
apparently tho I hear tofu is high in oxalates which should be avoid with kidney stones
There was an excellent youtube video today by a plant based doctor on kidney health. I always learn a lot from Dr. Esser. [https://www.youtube.com/live/79d9NiWDT8s?si=gtdIXwJE0xd8pfOe](https://www.youtube.com/live/79d9NiWDT8s?si=gtdIXwJE0xd8pfOe)
This is an amazing video. Thank you so much for sharing!
Dr. Esser has many youtube interviews on health from a plant based view, he is a Harvard trained physician too. I highly recommend them!
Animal protein is one of the main causes of kidney stones. As long as you’re not eating a stupid amount of high oxalate foods like spinach in smoothies every day, you’ll be fine
That's not even remotely true. Calcium oxalate stones are the most common and they're caused by fruits and vegetables, nuts and seeds, grains, legumes, and even chocolate and tea. Some examples of foods that have high levels of oxalate include peanuts, rhubarb, spinach, beets, Swiss chard, chocolate and sweet potatoes.
I assume you got that info from the Kidney website, since that blurb is word for word what is posted on the site. But you left out some crucial info. “Oxalate is naturally found in many foods, including fruits and vegetables, nuts and seeds, grains, legumes, and even chocolate and tea. Some examples of foods that have high levels of oxalate include peanuts, rhubarb, spinach, beets, Swiss chard, chocolate and sweet potatoes. *Limiting intake of these foods may be beneficial for people who form calcium oxalate stones which is the leading type of kidney stone.*” Key words are highlighted. It also goes on to say: “Eat and drink calcium foods such as milk, yogurt, and some cheese and oxalate-rich foods together during a meal. The oxalate and calcium from the foods are more likely to bind to one another in the stomach and intestines before entering the kidneys. This will make it less likely that kidney stones will form.” Eating calcium with high oxalate foods basically mitigates risk. And these recommendations are only for people who develop these stones. Also, if you scrolled further you would have seen the bit about the second leading cause of kidney stones, Uric Acid stones: “Red meat, organ meats, and shellfish have high amounts of a natural chemical compound known as purines. High purine intake leads to a higher production of uric acid and a larger acid load for the kidneys to excrete. Higher uric acid excretion leads to more acidic urine. The high acid concentration of the urine makes it easier for uric acid stones to form. To prevent uric acid stones, cut down on high-purine foods such as red meat, organ meats, beer/alcoholic beverages, meat-based gravies, sardines, anchovies and shellfish. Follow a healthy diet plan that has mostly vegetables and fruits, whole grains, and low-fat dairy products. Limit sugar-sweetened foods and drinks, especially those that have high fructose corn syrup. Limit alcohol because it can increase uric acid levels in the blood and avoid short term diets for the same reason. Decreasing animal-based protein and eating more fruits and vegetables will help decrease urine acidity and this may help reduce the chance for uric acid stone formation.” Convenient how you cherry picked. https://www.kidney.org/atoz/content/diet
That's what carnist trolls do & this one is particularly moronic
🙌 thanks for sharing. There are many calcium rich plant foods that are low in oxalates like kale, broccoli, white beans, cashews (when eaten moderately). Oxalates can be cooked out too. The variety and richness of a vegan diet is one of my fav things about being completely plant-based.
Agreed! It’s one of my favorite things, too. <3
Sorry I had to laugh at your response. I’d be dead with embarrassment if I was them 😭😭 like atleast read the full source bro
Sadly, you have to have self-awareness to have shame. This chronically online guy has none of that, lmao. This is his schtick: making claims without linking to sources and copy-pasting the blurbs that support his claim without bothering to include all the context. Or without bothering to read the entire source, because if he read the entire source he’d find it actually proved him wrong. I get SO much secondhand embarrassment. Unfortunately he replies to like every topic here. Glad it tickled ya! I was mentally facepalming the entire time I wrote it. 😂
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I’m not the person who you originally replied to bro, and also your reading comprehension clearly isn’t the best since they didn’t say it was THE leading cause—their literal words are “ONE of the main causes.” But I shouldn’t be surprised about this since you clearly don’t read the entirely of the article you copy chunks out of. And again, if you read further, you would see the part where you can easily counteract the risks of high oxalate foods by eating calcium with it. And this is only for people who are susceptible to stones in the first place.
Lol sorry I thought you were the cherry picker. While eating high oxalate foods with calcium sounds like an elegant solution, the calcium is bonding with the oxalate and they are both being pissed out. So you're not getting any other benefit from the calcium. Vegan diets already tend to be deficient in calcium, so this is far from ideal.
They didn’t cherry pick, you just didn’t comprehend what they wrote. You were drooling for that “gotcha!” and put words into their mouth to get it. Also, most of the US population is deficient in calcium. This isn’t a vegan-specific issue. My calcium is great btw. Also, again, this only applies to high oxalate foods, and only to people who are susceptible to stones. If you’re getting adequate calcium then you’ll absorb plenty. Most foods are not so crazy high in oxalates that ALL the calcium will be used up binding to oxalates, lol, and you can cook oxalates out of food. And if you eat a balanced diet as a vegan, you’ll get plenty of calcium. Hell my tofu last night had 60% of my DV value, and that’s one meal and not counting the veggies I ate and the oat milk I drank. If you’re not binging copious amounts of spinach daily, you’ll be fine. And if you drink a lot of water, you’re doing even better! Personally, I’ve never developed a stone (and my insides are all clear according to a recent MRI) and none of the vegans I know have had a stone either. I know plenty of omnivores who’ve had them, though. What I find most interesting is the purines, though, and the dietary recommendations that this Kidney organization listed! Which you have yet to touch upon. (:
No nephrologist in their right mind will advocate for a meat based diet for mitigating kidney stones. A vegetarian diet with low fat dairy for calcium is the go to prescription for kidney stone formers. Risk of Kidney Stones: Influence of Dietary Factors, Dietary Patterns, and Vegetarian–Vegan Diets https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7146511/ >Available scientific evidence agrees on the harmful effects of high meat/animal protein intake and low calcium diets, whereas high content of fruits and vegetables associated with a balanced intake of low-fat dairy products carries the lowest risk for incident kidney stones. Furthermore, a balanced vegetarian diet with dairy products seems to be the most protective diet for kidney stone patients. Since no study prospectively examined the effects of vegan diets on nephrolithiasis risk factors, more scientific work should be made to define the best diet for different kidney stone phenotypes. Optimum Nutrition for Kidney Stone Disease https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1548559512002212 >Idiopathic calcium oxalate stone-formers are advised to reduce ingestion of animal protein, oxalate, and sodium while maintaining intake of 800 to 1200 mg of calcium and increasing consumption of citrate and potassium. There are few data regarding dietary therapy of calcium phosphate stones. Whether the inhibitory effect of citrate sufficiently counteracts increasing urine pH to justify more intake of potassium and citrate is not clear. Reduction of sodium intake to decrease urinary calcium excretion would also be expected to decrease calcium phosphate stone recurrence. Conversely, the most important urine variable in the causation of uric acid stones is low urine pH, linked to insulin resistance as a component of obesity and the metabolic syndrome. The mainstay of therapy is weight loss and urinary alkalinization provided by a more vegetarian diet. Reduction in animal protein intake will reduce purine ingestion and uric acid excretion. For cystine stones, restriction of animal protein is associated with reduction in intake of the cystine precursor methionine as well as cystine. Reduction of urine sodium results in less urine cystine. Ingestion of vegetables high in organic anion content, such as citrate and malate, should be associated with higher urine pH and fewer stones because the amino acid cystine is soluble in more alkaline urine. Because of their infectious origin, diet has no definitive role for struvite stones except for avoiding urinary alkalinization, which may worsen their development. Eta: calcium eaten with oxalate is not pissed out. It's pooped out since it forms calcium oxalate in the digestive system itself, and cannot get into the blood and urine. This is why nephrologists ask to eat more calcium if there are calcium oxalate stones in kidneys.
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Yes, because you're a reegard
Name calling, the plant eater's weapon of choice.
At least you are not pretending you know what you are talking about, anymore.
Watch the big ones - potatoes, peanut butter, tofu, and leafy veggies will stab your filteri bois. Use kale for your salads and sandwiches, eat sunflower, pumpkin, walnut, or pistachio, and pick either tofu or peanut butter. For fruits, check online for low oxalate content. Pineapple, blueberries, watermelon, mango. You'll also want to drink a beer a day, apparently the way beer interacts reduces your risk. Coffee also, for some reason. My next kidney will probably kill me, the last one nearly did. It's been five years since then.
>You'll also want to drink a beer a day, apparently the way beer interacts reduces your risk. Coffee also, for some reason. I want to believe this is true, so I'm not gonna look into it.
Beer: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10412964/#:~:text=Beer%20consumption%20was%20inversely%20associated,%25%20CI%200.47%2D0.76 Coffee: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9589282/
Honestly the studies about drinking beer are interesting. I thought that because its alcohol that it would dehydrate one more but maybe its because your kidneys are working harder to clear our the alcohol
bumping because this is a concern of mine as well and i’d like to hear more. from what i’ve read, as long as you’re drinking a lot of water you should be fine. i try to drink water whenever i eat and right when i wake up to keep my body constantly flushing
Yeah and that's all my doctor said... just drink 2-3L of water a day which honestly I am having a hard time with but trying harder to count the amount of litres I drink in a day so that I can flush the stones out (hopefully soon).
Drink lots of water is the main thing. If you're particularly worried about oxalate, drain and change the water you're cooking your leafy green in, and try eat them alongside something with citric acid - garlic and lemon dressing is pretty good Orange juice also helps prevent stones for another reason on top of the citric acid, but I can't remember exactly what the chemical was. There are other sources of calcium too. Sesame seeds - which means humus if it's strong enough and most tofu is set with calcium. Plus depending where you live, a lot of bread and plant milks are fortified. And there's always supplements, but track your diet a bit too make sure you're not giving yourself too much.
Greens like kale, bok choy, broccoli are high in calcium, but low oxalates. Tofu is also high in calcium if calcium sulfate was used to curdle it. Other greens like collard greens have high calcium content, but high in oxalates. I esp love broccoli sprouts. High in sulforaphane, that has so many health benefits. If you’re into sprouting, try onion sprouts too! That oniony flavor is so good. Sprouts in general are easy to grow and delicious as a topper on most dishes, and esp in sandwiches. Ohh! White beans, like cannellini are high in calcium too. Throw some canned ones in salads, soups, puree and use as pasta sauce or other dishes, yums. Cashews have a higher calcium content too.
Oh sprouts this is a good one and I like those. Cannellini beans- I guess I would have to cook them (which I do anyway) to decrease the oxalate content.
As a vegan with a history of kidney stones, the only answer is: water Vegan sources of calcium, which can be better absorbed than animal sources of calcium, are typically the rich, leafy greens that are full of oxalates…which is the second ingredient in calcium-oxalate kidney stones… So, water. I drink lots of water to keep things flushing out of my body and not sitting and forming crystals. I also limit the things I can (lemon, tea) that also lead to stones.
I heard though that lemon helps with preventing stones
Have you had a kidney stone? If not, I wouldn’t worry too much about this beyond staying hydrated. There are different kinds of kidney stones that can be caused by a bazillion different things, so usually if you get one they figure out what your stones are made of and then you make dietary adjustments if necessary.
I actually currently do have kidney stones which is why my question was posted :/
Do you have a history of kidney issues in your family? If not, then I feel like you're trying to give yourself something to worry about.
I do not however currently do have kidney stones (calcium ones) which is why my question here was posted
I used to get several kidney stones per year and I haven’t had one since going vegan in 2017 (was vegetarian since 2008). Obviously that’s just anecdotal, and I’m not claiming that veganism has anything to do with my lack of kidney stones, but it definitely didn’t worsen the problem. I have recently developed gout though, so I guess my body doesn’t do too well with crystallization of any kind. But yeah, drink lots of water.
The two greatest sources of calcium are carrot juice and tahini. You can easily incorporate both into your diet.
For context, 1 medium carrot = 20 mg calcium 1 tablespoon tahini = 64 mg calcium USRDA of calcium = 1,000-1,200 mg daily
I want to validate that you are right that carrots and tahini don’t have very much calcium compared to what you need. I agree with you. I also want to take the opportunity to point out that the USA listed requirements for calcium are 2-3x higher than the UN recommends and most countries in the world. You don’t need nearly as much calcium as the USA recommends and science supports that. But yea, if you think you’re getting your RDI from carrots you gotta look a bit more closely…
UK [recommendation](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a749fece5274a44083b82d8/government_dietary_recommendations.pdf) is 700 mg/day
Carrots I like those as well - I'll have to add more of them to my diet.
Nice, I've been drinking oat milk for this but I love carrots, thanks for the tip
Tofu mogs dairy in terms of protein and calcium. Eat your tofu man.
I am prone to kidney stones. Currently, I have 6, 3 on each side. Peeing blood for 6 months, no buneno. Dark leafy green veggies, legumes, nuts, are highest in oxalates. Boiling and discarding the water is recommended for most high oxalate foods.. Drink lots of water. I have to drink 3-4L a day. Lemon water is great to drink.. it's also important to consume calcium. Depending on what type of stone you have, calcium can be your friend or not. ( a Dr can anayalze your stone and tell you) If you are prone to stones like I am, do not take a multivitamin. Getting more than 1 gramof vitamin c increases stone production by 40%.
Yeah I heard a lot about the impact of Vitamin C. Do you know if its the same if I get VitC from fruits or if its just with supplements?
I believe it's both. But I'm not 100% sure on that. Still trying to learn this new diet .
plant milks are fortified with calcium because dairy proteins are acidic and leach calcium from the bones. Thinking dairy is where calcium comes from is purely the effect of mass marketing. It has been repeated over and over for so long that people just started believing it. It is so untrue, that the places/cultures that consume the most dairy, also have the highest incidence of osteoporosis. Curious if you are just worried because of your research, or if you genuinely have reason to be concerned (e.g. bloodwork results).
I have kidney stones currently which is why I am concerned as I really need to pass them :/
there are TCM formulas to help with that! you might want to look into it ;) best of luck!
I've had kidney stones twice before switching to a vegan lifestyle- once at 19 and again at 23. I'm now 30 and do still worry that I'll get another one but haven't had any issues since the last time.
Also, avoid tomatoes.
Just eat a varied diet. Get a fortified cereal, eat some oranges and you should be able to get enough. Calcium absorption drops the more you intake so more is not always more. Go to the doctor, tell them you're vegan and ask them to include b12, calcium, vitamin d if they're not testing those already in your labs (calcium is generally standard).
More magnesium in your diet. That'll get rid of them for good
I’ve been getting kidney stones since for 20 years, vegan for 3 years. My last checkups with my urologist explained to me that I can continue being vegan or with any type of diet as long as I drink over 2 liters of water per day, but aim for 3. Your body cannot make them if you stick to that is what I was told, and it’s been working.
yeah water seems to really be the key in all this for kidney stone prevention
Spinach has all the calcium you need
Look deeper. Your body is out of balance and the stones are forming due to a deficit not an over abundance of calcium. The liquid in your body is leeching calcium from your bones and it appears in your kidneys when the blood is filtered. It’s a very common thing due to the bad things we consume in modern society. Look at your processed food intake and examine whether you are getting a well balanced diet as a vegan.
My doctor told me too much calcium will cause kidney stones.
Get one of these: [https://www.traveluniverse.com.au/camelbak-rogue-light-2-hydration-pack-black-silver/CB2403001000?gad\_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD9fiOUMIEQvqsPO4nZdalIdGcxZy&gclid=Cj0KCQjw3ZayBhDRARIsAPWzx8o\_pfRzgmEc9pQQYcOFAVtRuoIdbqzNEalWUbbXvbEzQY970ed7gm8aAlm7EALw\_wcB](https://www.traveluniverse.com.au/camelbak-rogue-light-2-hydration-pack-black-silver/CB2403001000?gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD9fiOUMIEQvqsPO4nZdalIdGcxZy&gclid=Cj0KCQjw3ZayBhDRARIsAPWzx8o_pfRzgmEc9pQQYcOFAVtRuoIdbqzNEalWUbbXvbEzQY970ed7gm8aAlm7EALw_wcB) And sip water out of it frequently. You will easily get 2 litres.
If anyone here is facing recurring kidney stone problems due to calcium, ask your doctor to do a test for Hyperparathyroidism [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperparathyroidism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperparathyroidism) This happens when one of the glands in the neck goes bad and produces too much hormone which increases the level of calcium in your blood which in turn gets converted to kidney stones. I had a problem with recurring kidney stones and most of the doctors asked me to drink plenty of water and be careful with my diet. Luckily one of the doctor checked my blood work and told me to go for the surgery. After the surgery I haven't faced the problem again.
this is so good to know thanks for sharing!
Google “foods with calcium” I hope this is a troll post.
A vegetarian diet with low fat dairy for calcium is the go to prescription for oxalate kidney stone formers. If that's not possible, go for some non pill vegan calcium sources like fortified soy milk. Risk of Kidney Stones: Influence of Dietary Factors, Dietary Patterns, and Vegetarian–Vegan Diets https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7146511/ >Available scientific evidence agrees on the harmful effects of high meat/animal protein intake and low calcium diets, whereas high content of fruits and vegetables associated with a balanced intake of low-fat dairy products carries the lowest risk for incident kidney stones. Furthermore, a balanced vegetarian diet with dairy products seems to be the most protective diet for kidney stone patients. Since no study prospectively examined the effects of vegan diets on nephrolithiasis risk factors, more scientific work should be made to define the best diet for different kidney stone phenotypes. Optimum Nutrition for Kidney Stone Disease https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1548559512002212 >Idiopathic calcium oxalate stone-formers are advised to reduce ingestion of animal protein, oxalate, and sodium while maintaining intake of 800 to 1200 mg of calcium and increasing consumption of citrate and potassium. There are few data regarding dietary therapy of calcium phosphate stones. Whether the inhibitory effect of citrate sufficiently counteracts increasing urine pH to justify more intake of potassium and citrate is not clear. Reduction of sodium intake to decrease urinary calcium excretion would also be expected to decrease calcium phosphate stone recurrence. Conversely, the most important urine variable in the causation of uric acid stones is low urine pH, linked to insulin resistance as a component of obesity and the metabolic syndrome. The mainstay of therapy is weight loss and urinary alkalinization provided by a more vegetarian diet. Reduction in animal protein intake will reduce purine ingestion and uric acid excretion. For cystine stones, restriction of animal protein is associated with reduction in intake of the cystine precursor methionine as well as cystine. Reduction of urine sodium results in less urine cystine. Ingestion of vegetables high in organic anion content, such as citrate and malate, should be associated with higher urine pH and fewer stones because the amino acid cystine is soluble in more alkaline urine. Because of their infectious origin, diet has no definitive role for struvite stones except for avoiding urinary alkalinization, which may worsen their development.
Why would you advocate for dairy on a vegan sub? 🙄
I'm advocating the position of nephrologists and kidney associations. If you don't want to include dairy, use calcium fortified foods like I clearly mentioned.
FFS 🙄