Are we still talking about this? This one push has been analyzed to death. The foul was upgraded she was fined and so was Reese.
The Fever played another game already and have one coming soon. The only people who still care about this is the media. The W hasn’t had this much attention and they are losing their minds. When was the last time we asked Adam Silver about a foul in the WNBA?
- The Sun are 9-0
- A’ja is averaging a double double
- Arike is a walking bucket
- Why on earth would the mystics let go of cloud?
There are so many things we could be talking about, but we are discussing a foul that has been handled already.
Honestly. There should really be a 24 hour time limit. But I’m really excited to hear my crazy uncles thoughts about this foul 6 months later during the holidays. /s
Has there been any real analysis or info on that decision? Cloud seemed like she was surprised or at least displeased so sounded like she wanted to stay. Why would the Mystics waste coring Elena Delle Donne who really seems like she lowkey hates the team or at least the organization, and pass on coring Cloud who's younger and was also a fundamental player on the championship team like EDD?
My liberty as also 9-2 despite not playing our best ball. There are several good storylines that can be highlighted but the media and the WNBA as well are not doing a good job
Stewie with a 33 & 14 Game followed by an easy 25 & 10 . Jj and Sabrina look so confident. They could easily get back the finals
They were one Sloot 3 away from a Game 5
So many compelling stories
Ironic how you list those items above as the many things we could br talking about and NONE of those is dominating the discussion here except for the lone post about A'jas last 7 game stats.
Sadly there are members of Congress who want to open up an inquiry if Caitlyn Clark is being treated too mean. You feel bas for everyone involved Chennedy because her amazing season performance has been overshadowed by this one incident. Reese because her stellar Rookie campaign and frankly college career has been reduced to being the Villain when she is by all accounts an incredible person and teammate (she has been dealing with racist resentment of her since she was in HS) and Clark because despite showing improvement over the past couple games all anyone talks about is "woe is her" and set her up opposite of all the other players in the league including her own teammates. Simply put- let them play, and their final stats will determine their place in history
>The only people who still care about this is the media
To be fair, the media wouldn't cover it if they didn't think it wouldn't generate views/clicks/interest. If they're covering this, they're basically saying that this story is going to gain more interest than those other stories lol And I mean, Skip will talk about a LeBron tweet over how the Thunder or T-Wolves did so this isn't out of the ordinary when it comes to sports.
>Are we still talking about this? This one push has been analyzed to death. The foul was upgraded she was fined and so was Reese.
It's because some fans have been gaslighting others about what we all saw. It's okay to play rough but do it IN the game.
>The Sun are 9-0
Unfortunately, it's not just the media who are the problem. The media *and* this subreddit love nothing more than to hype up The Fever and The Sky -- two mediocre organizations that are a combined 6 - 14, and absent a few occasional glimmers, play really bad basketball in comparison to the rest of the league, minus possibly the Mystics and the Sparks.
That push was one of the few clips of the wnba people have seen. Not trying to be mean, just reality. Like I could go ask a friend if he saw it, and I bet they’d say yes. But can’t think of any other wnba play ever. Like this play alone has gotten the wnba tons of publicity
I mean if it makes you feel any better, basketball media in general is in shambles. 1st game of the nba finals was last night and ESPN is only focusing on Lebron and the Laker’s next head coach.
True, true. I think that has a lot to do with how smart the Lakers are. Leaking information to Woj before the playoffs, blowing Shams' info up.
Also, a blowout game one doesn't leave much for those "analysts" at ESPN to discuss. They don't talk about plays or schemes, just who's to blame or praise
Clark news brings clicks. You're right. As a new fan, watching some of these teams is insanely impressive. I'm shocked no one talks about A'ja in particular. She's been on a roll now for the past 6-7 weeks. She's been basically the Luca for the W.
For all the people who have been fans of the W, it's going to take probably until next year for Clark news to go down, if you're lucky. Whether we want to agree or disagree about it, the Clark effect is real. New veiwers are tuning in strictly for her. News about her brings attention to the W, whether it's good or bad. There's a reason why news from a game a week ago still keeps getting played on. Heck, even Uconns coach had to drop his 2 cents in today.
They aren't letting this goose go until it's milked for all it's worth.
[the actual interview](https://x.com/youngnba/status/1798863904166297609?s=46&t=_2g0kk1iGSz9Dm2-M7Sw2A)
That’s a man well versed in toeing the line and staying out of it lol
I personally am not a fan of the "welcome to the league, rook" attitude that is often used to brush aside mistreatment/bullying of rookies, similarly to how seasoned nurses "haze" new-grad nurses and other comparisons. With that being said, what Carter did was in poor taste and should've been called a flagrant, was later dealt with in such a manner, and is now probably the most boring storyline on my Twitter feed rn. The only statement that needs to be made going forward about this is to disavow racism and harassment towards players (and that absolutely *is* a conversation worth having), rather than random politicians and everyone and their mom writing think-pieces about CC's elbow or Carter's looks or whatever else on either side
I personally don’t think it would still be talked about as much if the Sky didn’t address it as much on social, but that’s going to get a lot of downvotes. Saying you’re not going to talk about it then posting on social, then posting again when one person approaches you on the street asking about it when CC hasn’t spoken after it at all is kind of bizarre. But that’s just my opinion and we’re all entitled to one.
To be honest, I do see where you're coming from. I also think the rhetoric of fans in general is unhelpful. A'ja got clawed up and half the tweets/Reddit comments were saying something along the lines of "quick, should we call the news!!!!" Those little quips and barbs keep the discourse alive and are just as annoying, and they're made in bad faith. Two things can be true: 1) Carter's play was *not* a basketball play and the ball hadn't even been inbounded, so to compare it to standard in-game fouls is disingenuous, even though those calls should still be talked about and certainly did affect A'ja, for example, and 2) it's still time to get over it.
The problem I have is this dishonest comparison between the fouls
Just because it wasnt during a play doesnt mean it was the worst type of foul
Both Reese and A’ja dealt with way yet people (including you) are suggesting the foul on CC was worse.
Anyone that’s played sports before would take that hip check over the other fouls.
It’s also funny that when other fans who had to deal with CC fans screaming for a whole week call out the inconsistency when it comes to other players being treated *worse* we’re considered the problem.
The inaccurate rhetoric that the physical treatment is unique to CC continues to this day so of course people will point it out when it’s contradicted
Yep. This could've been wrapped up. If it ended at the presser. But then there were the social media activity (the likes and saying what does Clark do other than shoot 3s). Then it could've been nipped in the bud at the practice but Kennedy said she had "no regrets." That kept giving it legs.
Both are welcome to the league moments whether you like that or not doesn’t change the facts. Many rookies come in and get checked it happens. Intentional flagrant fouls happen, it doesn’t make it right but IT IS a part of the game.
Yeah Adam Silver sounds like a dumb ass, it wasnt a basketball play at all, it was literally a cheap shot lol im all for physicality and all but lets call it what is it.
Yes, carbine234, you of course are much more knowledgeable about the game of basketball than Adam Silver. We've been waiting all week for your judgment about what a cheap shot is and isnt.
Since yesterday’s aces game, there have been no national attention about the physicality towards A’ja including her getting her nose cut at least twice with no whistle as well as losing a contact. There have been countless national posts and discussions for 5 DAYS about the shove to CC and honestly the main criticism should be that it should’ve been called a flagrant in real time then they play on. It’s pretty silly.
I’ve actually seen a lot of criticism towards the stuff against A’Ja, though. It’s a ref problem as much as it’s a media problem. Justice for A’ja 100 percent. Refs are awful. Media is awful. End of story. We just have to accept this I suppose.
Yeah, it’s growing pains with the league. Let’s be honest, a lot of the people chiming in on the CC thing are the same people who contribute to the nba being a soap opera and it seems worse for the w right now because a lot of people who are yapping don’t respect the league nor really any player that’s not CC right now so the discourse is simply ugly
This is a good point. I think they might have good intentions but just not be as educated. Growing pains, as you said. And well said. I think you can play physical basketball and still be kind, too. I hope that’s the way we go.
I've seen others saying the opposite. That if Aja can get bloodied then everyone should get bloodied.
That's just a bad model. We already have a female UFC league.
Kahleah Copper elbowed Sky Diggs in the face on the way to fhe basket and Diana Turasi literally punched Jewell in the stomach/hip and caused Jewell to be slow to get up. Not to mention the here today, gone tomorrow, more flagrant rookie flagrant that happened before this incident. It's only people that want to complain doing this shit. And in a couple hours they'll brigade and make this thread hell.
Every other foul used a comparison was during live play. Show me an example of where the ball isn't live and someone is hit with a dirty play, then I'll consider it comparable.
You can't be considered competitive if you do cheap shots when the play is dead. That's Draymond level of stupidity, and should be called out for.
I have 0 issue with chennedy being called out for that. It was simply a dirty play. It should’ve been a flagrant when it happened. It’s been 5 days and beaten to death. There is simply nothing else to say about it. I don’t know any dirty play in the nba that wasn’t Draymond that’s been beaten to death for 5 days. We can acknowledge that it was dirty and move on to focus on other parts of the league
Draymond shenangians were going on a few weeks. but besides that's besides the point....
However, you must recognize that it's everyone's efforts that is keeping this topic alive for days. Carter should have just addressed it after the game and be done with it, but she and Reese addressed it the day after and then kept talking about it.
Reese's choke slam was talked about that day, ended that day. It didn't go into the next day and then have some defense about that player being competitve or what not
edit: you said wasn't draymond. Misread, however in this story, all CC news would be a news story like Draymond and a Flagrant foul. Stories are built around certain individuals.
Yep. They kept it going for an extra day when it wasn’t needed. They aren’t talking about it anymore. Because it’s over. It’s been 5 days. Reese’s slam started and ended in a day. Just like CC’s shove should’ve. There’s no reason to be still talking about it for 5 days, man. What more is there to say aside from it being dirty and should’ve been a flagrant?
I'm shocked that this is such a controversial take on here. I feel like people's judgment is being clouded by their hatred for CC stans. It's okay to have a balanced take and say yes, that was a shitty act that accomplished nothing but wow, people's discourse about it is annoying and disrespectful sometimes -- I don't get people's opposition to that.
It's almost been a week. What I don't like is that all the players have been talked about like she is being cheap shotted every game. The foul was upgraded as it should have been.
There just seems to be anger from OG fans against both the CC fans and CC stans. They are blinded by something and cant see how all this can be good for the league.
I really do feel this. I'm just about the biggest leftist in my friend group and even *I* feel like people have lost the plot when they're incorrectly and dangerously spreading misinformation about how CC herself is probably racist, etc. I also feel like people are really downplaying the Sky's role in a lot of this. Of course they don't deserve racism, no one does -- but you should definitely expect (reasonable and non-harassing) criticism when you make an egregiously dirty play, hop up to cheer on that dirty play like the Commissioner's Cup itself was handed to your team, or instigate shit on Twitter, etc.
I feel like a lot of people just really hate CC, whether because of herself or because of her fans/media attention/etc, so will hop on any criticism of her. It is what it is but I do think she’s being punished enough by the way her season is going, don’t think we need to add personality conjecture on top of it!
[Pat Bev pushed Chris Paul to the ground during a time out](https://youtu.be/Hk7fBc6uQ_M?si=2WC-lrOylojWVHgw&t=16). It was worst than what Chennedy did and no one cared about it. A lot of live play fouls are way worst than Chennedy's foul. CC was more embarrassed than hurt on the play. Chennedy is smaller than her, she's not a big.
The overblown reaction and coverage of the foul is embarrassing.
are you saying no media covered that incident? Yea it’s a worse cheap shot but no one came out and said “Ive been hit the exact same way and I didn’t complain” in a press conference the next day.
Pat v CP3 has been a story for years and has a lot of history
The cut on A'jas nose. They reviewed the play in game and saw nothing and the league saw nothing. So what are you talking about with the physicality that needs to be addressed for A'ja?
Ah, I see. My main point is that people who are complaining about physicality aren’t being consistent. The girl got her nose cut twice and there was no prolonged discourse about physicality. CC was the victim of a dirty play and it’s got 5 days of discourse. There just doesn’t need to be that much time devoted to it paired with the media asking other players about it for the those 5 days.
Show me a play we Aja got fouled 90 feet from the basket without the ball while the clock was stopped? Didn't happen she got hit while in the paint shooting and got blooded up. But that was IN the game.
You can't gaslight you way into these being the same. Just accept it and move on. Trying to tell people what they are seeing isn't real is a bad look.
Literally what are you talking about?? What gaslighting?? All I’ve said is people are complaining about physicality but when there’s actual physicality on someone, there’s crickets. Idk if you need to reread what I said but numerous times I’ve said that what happened to CC was dirty. Where did I claim it wasn’t real?? But I ask you, what about the shove warrants *5 days* of discourse?
>Where did I claim it wasn’t real??
Your pretending it's the same thing. It's not.
The complaint isnt about physicality. It's about targeting and non basketball plays.
A foul during normal play like driving to the hoop ISNT comparable to one 90 feet from the basket during stopped time.
Trying to pretend like we should be reacting to these incidents the same way is gaslight. Pretending like what happened to CC is "just basketball" is gaslighting.
Sorry if you don't like hearing it but that is what gaslighting it. Trying to convince people what they know to be true really isn't.
Quandary: if a known violent person at your job( say they were fired from previous jobs for getting violent with former employees)came into your place of work and randomly threw you to the ground as your facing the other way would you not seek regress? Would you want people to just let it go?
Nope it was an attack plain and simple. She has a history of violence and the murder face she made show she wanted to hurt cc.. did she succeed? No she just made herself look like a moron.
https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/wnba/news/chennedy-carter-controversy-timeline-dream-sparks-sky/1ba7592291a5a1b421d8f6ea
I’ve been watching the W for many years. I know Chennedy Carter, I’ve watched her since she was in college. Please don’t try and lecture me.
It’s a physical game with their hearts on the line, and a passion to win. That’s how basketball is. I’m sure we can both agree the physicality of this job far outranks any other hypothetical job you want to call into question. This type of shit happens in basketball all the time. Men’s and women’s. Get over it and let’s all move on.
So I'm looking at the transcript of this quote and he never uses the word "should". That adds a bit of a spin on it. That's why take everything on social media with a grain of salt. Here's that full quote:
I'll leave the specific question about the foul to my colleague, Commissioner (Cathy) Engelbert. Other than as a fan, obviously it's nothing new in basketball that there's sort of "welcome to the league" moments, especially for heralded rookies, but of course I want to see Caitlin treated fairly and appropriately in the league.
I would say it seems like she can take care of herself. She's a tough player. I think it may be lost on some people that are new to basketball, in terms of a little bit of controversy in the WNBA, what an incredible talent she is..."
All of this continued discussion could've been averted by the referees during the game, and the player (Carter) after the game. We all know this! Maybe the refs will learn from their decision. Maybe coaches and players will learn from this for their weakness of character to just call the hard foul what it was and not make excuses...and answer the hard questions. I have no pity anyone on the Sky for how they dealt with it at the time. It's on them. CC handled it with poise and intelligence. I personally haven't mentioned this foul to any real person in my life, not family, not friends. It's only here I hear about it. I guess people need to keep talking because at this moment there are 147 comments on this post, and I'm adding my own two cents worth.
UConn women's basketball head coach Geno Auriemma among those who aren't happy with the way some WNBA players are approaching going up against Indiana Fever guard Caitlin Clark.
"Is she facing the rookie challenge, the rookie hardships that are inherent with being a rookie? Yes," Auriemma said Tuesday, per ESPN's Michael Voepel. "She's also being targeted."
Auriemma continued and compared Clark's situation to those of prominent NBA stars.
"I don't remember when [Michael] Jordan came into the [NBA], guys looking to go out and beat him up," he said. "I don't remember when [Larry] Bird and Magic [Johnson] came in the league and elevated the NBA, them getting targeted and getting beat up just because of who they were and the attention they were getting.
"Appreciate the fact that now's the time [for the WNBA]. I get it. It's long overdue. Why are you blaming that kid? It's not her fault, because you would trade places with her in a minute, but you are not there. You're not her. So, you're [complaining] that she's getting what she's getting."
The real concern is that Chennedy Carter has a history of Impulse Control. Her behavior is part of a pattern which resulted in her removal from TWO other teams.
This might actually mean something if the NBA and Silver hadn’t gotten rid of all the BS “physical contact” you still see in the W 20 years ago.
A “welcome to the NBA moment” is generally getting dunked on or having your shot blocked, etc. It certainly isn’t choke slams or off the ball blindsided cheap shots.
Also, when has Silver ever GAF about the WNBA other than using it as a tax write off? He’s as responsible for how poorly the WNBA is run as much as the WNBA commissioner.
It's a weird thing for Silver to say and maybe he just thought he's drawing a line under it and waving it away.
The NBA just had the most hyped rookie season since LeBron in Wemby and it pretty much felt like a season long love-in for him from the league's stars. This isn't the 90s.
Exactly. The differences between the leagues are so striking. And Wemby is a skinny 19 year old from France. That’s someone the other players could have definitely “sent a message to.” I remember what Dirk had to put up with his first few years. That’s just not how things are done now and that’s a good thing.
Clark's "welcome to the league" treatment is kind of crazy though. That Sky vs. Fever game is the only game I've watched this season (it was available on Prime, I don't have these other channels the games are on) and Clark is being guarded like it's NBA playoff defense. Full court press every possession, blitzes, double team schemes, hard fouls.
All of the social media, and regular media shenanigans are wild. Painting Clark as a villiain that WNBA vets are gunning for because she's "young, paid well, WHITE, attractive, straight" is so crazy. Just start calling it like it is. Clark's full-court press, hard defense welcome to the league is because the girl has insane talent and every team and coach is coming after her because she has potential to torch any team and to have the best chance at winning games, coaches and players are trying to contain her.
All this seems like to me is a lack of respect. I'm not saying she should be praised or given special treatment, or treated like a cute little puppy. Let her pay her dues and earn her stripes through good play. But the whole narrative surrounding her and recent incidents is really turning me off from considering regular viewing of games or supporting my local Chicago Sky team at their stadium. And that's what you don't want as the WNBA. Not just for me as an individual but how many others like me might be turned away from interest in the WNBA because of how players and the media are portraying a promising young rookie.
That’s from the guy who suspends / fines people for making vague allegations that a referee might have swallowed his whistle to benefit a star player whose favourable treatment has been obvious to everyone.
And who’s made “hanging on the rim 0.34 seconds too much” gets you T-ed up because it’s “taunting”.
Sorry that’s not credible.
Just saying CC doesn't care: [https://x.com/NBC4Sports/status/1799118647111164077](https://x.com/NBC4Sports/status/1799118647111164077)
And we shouldn't too...just let them hoop! On the flip side, the fact that she's living rent free in EVERYONE's minds is insane and speaks volumes about the reach.
This is a ridiculous take.
That sort of play is unnecessary, not enjoyable, and dangerous. There is absolutely zero chance that Caitlin will ever "welcome" a rookie to the league like that.
It's classless, and should be vehemently called out every time it happens.
Agreed. I know rookie hazing will never go away, but the hard fouls are context dependent in my opinion. Like, there's a difference between a hard foul while also playing the ball and just blindside shoving someone to the ground. The former I can accept, but the latter is just unacceptable behavior.
I watched a lot of Spurs games this season, and Wemby took his share of shots this season. The book on him coming in was that he was tall and talented but not that strong yet. He was 19 at the start of the season. So teams played him really physically. They schemed to stop him, double and triple teamed him at times. They did whatever they could to go after him. And in between some amazing highlights, he struggled for the first couple of months if the season. They lost 16 in a row.
He learned how to handle it and the team reworked how they used him to take better advantage of his skills. The team learned how to play better together. And things were way better by the end of the season.
I didn't see him ever get hit during a dead ball like that. That wasn't a legit basketball play and the flagrant call was absolutely appropriate. But when he was hit hard, it wasn't news, it was just part of what every rookie goes through, rightly or wrongly.
While I don’t disagree with this, I do think this should be the quiet part, not the thing that the fucking commissioner says out loud. It will just invite worse hazing.
I think it can be overblown by the media AND be a pretty inexcusable play by Kennedy. Both of those can be true. But this is a bad take by the commissioner, and could lead to more of that behavior.
He's not wrong. It sucks for sure, but he's not wrong. You get touted as the best, you're gonna get tested. I'm still on Matt Barnes's side on this. Caitlin Clark needa push back, and her teammates gotta have her back. I have a coworker I don't like either, but when a client is being shitty to them with no justification, it's all hands from there.
How is this "getting tested" though? I'm asking this earnestly, not in an offensive manner or anything. I could understand that logic if, for example, Carter tested CC by being a really physical defender, or by intercepting CC's passes, or whatever else. That is a test of what CC is touted to be the best at -- basketball. Seems like a pretty wimpy, disingenuous, non-basketball skill-related test to hip-check someone when the ball isn't even in play and you know they won't be looking or expecting it at all.
Sports at a professional level is about more than just being physically skilled at said sport. It also includes having the mental fortitude to deal with oncoming harassment that is intended to throw you off your game. Yes, a dirty hit intended to injure is part of the game. Why? Because you being injured increases the chances the other team wins. A dirty hit to annoy you and make you lose your cool is part of the game to help decrease your efficiency.
At a professional level, when your livelihood is at stake, and dependent upon you winning, you are going to do as much as you can get away with to keep playin to keep payin your bills.
Now thats not to say it is a good thing. It isnt always a good thing, matter of fact, its more bad than good most times. But that is what separates the best from the rest. The ability to withstand that harassment, and rise above it.
I do understand your explanation and appreciate it, so thanks for writing all of that out. I guess it's just disappointing to me seeing how there are so many ways players get their mental fortitude tested outside of dirty plays (hell, even off the court) -- but I do see exactly what you're saying about how it makes sense for the opposing team to do.
Also remember that the W is a smaller league with less turnover. The competition is even more fierce because these players need to perform to keep their spot. Add to that that Chennedy is a known hothead playing against the person folks have anointed as the greatest thing since sliced bread (who likes to talk shit btw) and you get stuff like this. I’ll also say to me it looked like a bit of a flop.
Trae Young got put on his ass trying to do a showboaty move on Trevor Ariza in what was clearly a “Watch yourself” hard foul. Nevermind what would’ve happened to a player in the NFL, especially the old days before the rules changed.
She wasn’t being tested, she was being checked.
There are certain things you cannot do. Caitlin’s hands and elbows seem to connect with people’s faces a lot and Chennedy said something to her after being elbowed. Caitlin shit talked back to Chennedy and after sitting with it for a moment, she retaliated.
There are certain hits that you don’t shit talk about—someone being hit in the head is one of them. Because now it seems intentional or like you don’t give a fuck if they were hurt or not. And, if that’s the case, they’ll return the favor and not care if you are hurt.
This happens in the nba. It’s not common, but certain contact definitely resorts to dirty plays and retaliation, esp if you’re shit talking afterwards.
So the check was to tell her to watch her mouth because some people will return the favor.
You don’t like it and think it has no room in basketball, so how do you think players feel when someone does reckless and dangerous things and don’t take it seriously? One wrong move could have them out of the game and the sidelines, injured, and/or ruin your career, especially as a wnba player. So if they’re going to be out, they’d rather determine their fates than some careless person or asshole or pay a fine.
Yup, 100% right. People love ignoring the fact that chennedy got elbowed right in the head then caitlin shit talked her right after indicating it wasn't an accident, so obviously chennedy was gonna retaliate. She likes to throw rocks and hide her hands a lot
People are intentionally missing that they exchanged words right before Chennedy pushed her and she looked PISSED. Her fans and Caitlin are pretty lucky it didn’t happen right after the election ow because Chennedy is a hot head.
And, honestly, many pro players aren’t going to take kindly to being elbowed then shitting on someone makes you a target. That level of disrespect will not be tolerated, esp when you have to discern if certain contact was intentional or not and how injuries come with the game.
Funny how this blew up but when Angel got chock slammed to the ground nobody seemed to care.
Imagine CC being chocked slammed to the ground and the massive coverage it got.
Yeah this is the kind of play that should be eliminated from basketball. One of the best decisions the NBA ever made was when they changed the rules to make players like Bill Lambier useless. The Bad Boy Pistons weren’t good enough at basketball to beat teams like the Bulls, Celtics, and Lakers legitimately so they instead played dirty. I have absolutely zero respect for the Bad Boy Pistons as a result.
The WNBA needs some rule changes (or even just some different officiating) to send a message that dirty play won’t be tolerated anymore. It was one thing when nobody was watching, but now millions of fans are tuning in for the first time, and clearly have not liked this part of what they’ve seen based on how dragged out this discourse has been. Fans want to see skilled guards score the basketball, and the current meta isn’t allowing for that because of the cheap shots.
I’m not saying physicality should die, the way A’ja Wilson plays is great, it’s the cheap shots and dirty plays that should go away. It’s players like Chennedy Carter will be the ones who take the hit because they’re dirty players. They won’t go as far as the NBA has gone with officiating for more offense, but they need to move from what it is currently. At the moment bigs are way too important in the WNBA meta, and as we all know bigs aren’t marketable in the same way guards are.
All they have to do for that one play is just call it when it happens. Don't need a bunch of rule changes. Or if it's not already it could be like the nba... one free throw and the ball back.
*Exactly.* What has deeply bothered me about this discourse is the way that people are disingenuously conflating "physicality" and "dirty play" as synonyms. It is so unfair, and such a shift of the goalposts, to respond "well, the WNBA is physical, get used to it" when someone's voicing how a dirty play is a dirty play. I *love* the physicality that I've seen so far -- but physicality and dirty plays are two different things, and it's a disservice honestly to the players to pretend that they're not. I've honestly been perturbed by how many strawman arguments, shifted goalposts, logical fallacies, etc have been thrown around during the conversation about this.
Because many of Caitlin’s vocal critics have conflated them. People got mad about a fucking screen. They get upset about her being face guarded and blitzed.
Yep. But tbf they are not all conflating the two, they just like the product. I got downvoted to hell the other day in a thread where people happily announced the WNBA was "like the NBA in the 80's", and that this physicality was missed in the NBA, while I argued player safety should be the most vital priority for the league's growth
I think I remember seeing your exact comment and remembering the masses weren't gonna like it, lol. It seems that part of always being in the more popular men's league's shadow makes us think that to achieve parity, we should do *everything* like them, including the old-school bad stuff.
You are unwell, to go through and reply to so many of my comments with derision that contributes nothing to the conversation. I've been nothing but earnest, asked questions, shared my thoughts, etc while being as respectful as possible to everyone involved. If you have thoughts on those thoughts, then use your words like a grown-up, but otherwise get out of my mentions with your multiple hateful replies.
Huh?
Even as it happened, virtually no team respected how the Bad Boy Pistons played. I’m not saying that you are saying that, however, NBA players, coaches, and so forth have never respected habitually dirty players. Although there are exceptions for dirty plays depending on why it happened and if there isn’t a history or trend of this behavior. Dirty plays were built into Detroit’s play style.
Dirty plays cannot be eradicated because it’s not always obvious that something is a dirty play and can take a while to even realize what’s going on. Such as the nba player who would position himself under shooters so they had no landing space. Dirty plays sometimes are a failure of officiating and other times its plays that, while not dirty, but also have unnecessary and excessive contact.
You’re completely overlooking why dirty plays are an issue now—it’s not because more people are watching, it’s because of who they want to protect: Caitlin Clark. But the reason isn’t simply because she’s a talented player, it’s due to sexism, racism, and misogynoir.
Women’s sports have been ridiculed by either saying it’s unladylike to be aggressive. Or/Then they’ll turn around and say it’s not a serious sport because there isn’t physicality. But when it comes to black women many don’t give a shit because it’s black women. There have been studies where people have said they believe black people (and sometimes specifically black women) have higher pain tolerance. Some people see us as masculine. But then women add homophobia, especially the masculine women in the league, people just don’t give a fuck.
Now you have a white woman who is straight and suddenly people care about the physicality.
If this was about having more eyes, people would’ve been calling for AT’s head, despite her getting ejected. People would be talking about A’ja being hit in the face three times on a much larger scale than they did Caitlin’s hit. And it’s not happening because these women are BLACK. A’ja is the best player in the league and going on a tear and mainstream media and the loudest proponents of abolishing physical contact have barely made a peep.
You realize that Caitlin will be hurt by this too, right? Caitlin has at least three different occasions of hitting people in the face. If players successfully challenged those hit under suggested rule changes, she’d be penalized. I can’t speak on Chennedy before now, however, this is her only dirty play of this season. And it happened because Caitlin shit talked her after elbowing her in the face. Chennedy has been focused on scoring and defending, so what exactly are you talking about here?
You are speaking truth and facts and I 100% support and agree with all you said above.
However, nothing you said will ever gain traction unfortunately because that disrupts from the narrative that Cathy and the rest if the WNBA suits, to include media, want to portray.
Firstly, plenty of people in positions of power talk out of their ass all of the time, so that point is moot. Secondly, I posed a genuine question in my comment and even clarified that it was meant to elicit an earnest answer, not provoke people. You need to touch grass if that offended you.
Yep. Like Chiney Ogwumike said, we can’t have these conversations each time CC gets fouled. She’s going to be fouled again because basketball is physical.
But her fan base keeps dragging it out.
I say this with respect but this is a lazy and boring argument at this point. Multiple things can be true. Yes, CC likely had an easier time ascending to stardom because she's white. No doubt about it. That Republican politician that complained about Carter? Definitely because CC is white. Sure. But the fact of the matter is that the play *was* dirty. I said the same thing when AT fouled Reese. The outrage by the media is annoying af, and I hear you on that. No one should be talking about this anymore because it's been completely settled. But that doesn't mean that CC fans, or the average watcher, are wrong for saying that was a dirty play. And I say this as a WOC.
100% agree. People’s inability to believe that multiple things can simultaneously be true is a huge part of what has been going wrong in the U.S. the past several years, imo. Complete lack of critical thinking skills. Most of what we encounter in life is in the gray zone as opposed to black and white.
All I’m asking is that we stop acting like Angel Reese had a “highly successful NCAA career” and that the “tremendous additional interest” the WNBA is experiencing has anything to do with her at all. Her stats and popularity support neither of these statements.
It's hilarious to me how much talk this dumb foul has generated. It's almost like the entire world didn't realize that women play basketball and compete and it can get chippy, just like in any other competitive sport. In baseball the pitcher hits the batter, the benches clear and its just another Tuesday.
It should have been called a flagrant because that's what it was. But that's the end of the story
Glad Silver said something. He's spot on with the assessment. Bummer it's an issue that needs to be addressed at all.
This is a non-issue if it's the NBA. Flagrant, 1 day of media coverage, move on.
This is an issue in the WNBA, in the eyes of the media, because racism manifests in its own unique way when you combine it with chauvinism. I'll never know personally, but being a black woman certainly seems to come with a hell of a lot of scrutiny. Frankly, Caitlyn Clark is also getting a raw deal. She's being done a disservice by being treated like a helpless damsel. She's young and learning but she's anything but helpless like is being projected by ignorant "fans" and media members.
In other words, "Sometimes the rules apply, but when we want they don't mean sh*t. And it's been that way for a long time."
NBA should hide its face in shame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZTSD3Gp5NM&pp=ygUrYW0gaSB0aGUgb25seSBvbmUgd2hvIGNhcmVzIGFib3V0IHRoZSBydWxlcw%3D%3D
John Goodman as Walter, in The Big Lebowski
No idea why Silver would double down on this. Just asking to be brigaded by the inflammatory crowd.
Let it go and let the league move on. They'll know better to have the refs take a proper action moving forward. No one debates it was at minimum a real time Flagrant 1, probably a 2.
All I take from this is:
- Chennedy has gone beast mode since the incident. Kind "sometimes you gotta pop off and show them"
- Media, mostly grown men with the emotional intelligence level of a toddler are kosing whatever is left of their mind with this new found attention the women are getting.
- At this point, just ask Ja Rule what he thinks.
- Media cant let anything go without beating itnto death. And will only move on when the next incident rhey can beat to death comes up
God this is whole thing and the circus around it is so stupid.
If you described this situation and said, “Professional Athletes,” instead of their name, it wouldn’t have been a blip on the radar. But because it’s Caitlin Clark and wnba players, the rules are different? Nah fuck that.
Can't belive this bum said this quite frankly. How is a cheap shot on a dead ball situation a "welcome to the league" moment? They should focus on other things and let this die down already
5 days straight yall CC fans are crying a river over this. fouls happen all the time in the WNBA and NBA. CC didn't get punched, kicked or maimed, GET OVER IT
That’s not a good look for Silver. I do not think he’d put up with that being called a common foul on the floor in the NBA and would be reading refs the riot act.
Are we still talking about this? This one push has been analyzed to death. The foul was upgraded she was fined and so was Reese. The Fever played another game already and have one coming soon. The only people who still care about this is the media. The W hasn’t had this much attention and they are losing their minds. When was the last time we asked Adam Silver about a foul in the WNBA? - The Sun are 9-0 - A’ja is averaging a double double - Arike is a walking bucket - Why on earth would the mystics let go of cloud? There are so many things we could be talking about, but we are discussing a foul that has been handled already.
Honestly. There should really be a 24 hour time limit. But I’m really excited to hear my crazy uncles thoughts about this foul 6 months later during the holidays. /s
Nah let’s double back to Cloud I’ve been asking myself this since I found out.
Has there been any real analysis or info on that decision? Cloud seemed like she was surprised or at least displeased so sounded like she wanted to stay. Why would the Mystics waste coring Elena Delle Donne who really seems like she lowkey hates the team or at least the organization, and pass on coring Cloud who's younger and was also a fundamental player on the championship team like EDD?
Letting Cloud go is easily the worst organizational decision in the W from last off-season
give me cloud back PLEASE.
No! She’s ours now and we love her!
please 😭
The Sun are amazing. Really digging the dijonai carrington improvement. She's looking like a dog out there on both ends of the court.
My liberty as also 9-2 despite not playing our best ball. There are several good storylines that can be highlighted but the media and the WNBA as well are not doing a good job
Stewie with a 33 & 14 Game followed by an easy 25 & 10 . Jj and Sabrina look so confident. They could easily get back the finals They were one Sloot 3 away from a Game 5 So many compelling stories
The Liberty are sitting really good. They have had one of the tougher schedules and only have 2 losses.
Sub Napheesa for Arike
No disrespect intended. Collier is cold 🥶. 2 walking buckets! Edit: Spelling
Reese was fined for refusing to talk to the media after the game, not for celebrating the cheap shot foul. But other than that, agreed.
Ironic how you list those items above as the many things we could br talking about and NONE of those is dominating the discussion here except for the lone post about A'jas last 7 game stats.
We’re talking about drama and not the actual games? Wow we really are like the NBA.
This is one of the things I'm looking forward to the least as The W gets more and more coverage.
Sadly there are members of Congress who want to open up an inquiry if Caitlyn Clark is being treated too mean. You feel bas for everyone involved Chennedy because her amazing season performance has been overshadowed by this one incident. Reese because her stellar Rookie campaign and frankly college career has been reduced to being the Villain when she is by all accounts an incredible person and teammate (she has been dealing with racist resentment of her since she was in HS) and Clark because despite showing improvement over the past couple games all anyone talks about is "woe is her" and set her up opposite of all the other players in the league including her own teammates. Simply put- let them play, and their final stats will determine their place in history
>The only people who still care about this is the media To be fair, the media wouldn't cover it if they didn't think it wouldn't generate views/clicks/interest. If they're covering this, they're basically saying that this story is going to gain more interest than those other stories lol And I mean, Skip will talk about a LeBron tweet over how the Thunder or T-Wolves did so this isn't out of the ordinary when it comes to sports.
>Are we still talking about this? This one push has been analyzed to death. The foul was upgraded she was fined and so was Reese. It's because some fans have been gaslighting others about what we all saw. It's okay to play rough but do it IN the game.
The Sun also have an amazing Home Court advantage right now. It should be talked about!
Bonner just became the 5th all-time leading scorer! So much to discuss.
>The Sun are 9-0 Unfortunately, it's not just the media who are the problem. The media *and* this subreddit love nothing more than to hype up The Fever and The Sky -- two mediocre organizations that are a combined 6 - 14, and absent a few occasional glimmers, play really bad basketball in comparison to the rest of the league, minus possibly the Mystics and the Sparks.
That push was one of the few clips of the wnba people have seen. Not trying to be mean, just reality. Like I could go ask a friend if he saw it, and I bet they’d say yes. But can’t think of any other wnba play ever. Like this play alone has gotten the wnba tons of publicity
I mean if it makes you feel any better, basketball media in general is in shambles. 1st game of the nba finals was last night and ESPN is only focusing on Lebron and the Laker’s next head coach.
True, true. I think that has a lot to do with how smart the Lakers are. Leaking information to Woj before the playoffs, blowing Shams' info up. Also, a blowout game one doesn't leave much for those "analysts" at ESPN to discuss. They don't talk about plays or schemes, just who's to blame or praise
I don't see the Lynx being a dominant powerhouse about to win the ship on your list.
Accept my apologies because they are playing like a powerhouse. One of those two losses could have easily been another W.
It’s what the media does.
Arike is the only person in the wnba keeping me from being miserable. I get injuries happen but losing sucks. You should see me during broncos season
Clark news brings clicks. You're right. As a new fan, watching some of these teams is insanely impressive. I'm shocked no one talks about A'ja in particular. She's been on a roll now for the past 6-7 weeks. She's been basically the Luca for the W. For all the people who have been fans of the W, it's going to take probably until next year for Clark news to go down, if you're lucky. Whether we want to agree or disagree about it, the Clark effect is real. New veiwers are tuning in strictly for her. News about her brings attention to the W, whether it's good or bad. There's a reason why news from a game a week ago still keeps getting played on. Heck, even Uconns coach had to drop his 2 cents in today. They aren't letting this goose go until it's milked for all it's worth.
Reese was fined for refusing to talk to the Press after the game. The Sky organization was also fined.
Maybe because the Clark cult acted like she was murdered
[the actual interview](https://x.com/youngnba/status/1798863904166297609?s=46&t=_2g0kk1iGSz9Dm2-M7Sw2A) That’s a man well versed in toeing the line and staying out of it lol
We should ask Joe Biden what he thinks of it. Then maybe bring it up at the UN and hear what everyone thinks about.
Chennedy Carter should be sent to The Hague to answer for her crimes against humanity
She poisoned our water supply, burned our crops and delivered a plague unto our houses!
*in unison* she did????!!!!!!!?????!!!
no, but are we gonna wait around until she does?!
The WNBA's commissioner reports to Adam Silver, so his take is relevant.
Thank you
I did not know that
What does Ja Rule think about this?
Please don’t. He and Jill will invite Angel, ChenCar and cc to the White House to patch things up over ice cream.
Why do you want to deny those 3 some ice cream?
Not before asking them to donate $5 to his campaign
This took me out 🤣
What does Ja have to say?
Base mid-east policy on what Netanyahu says about it.
I’m legit surprised Biden or Trump wasn’t asked about it
Trump is just about ready to chime in. Give it a few
I personally am not a fan of the "welcome to the league, rook" attitude that is often used to brush aside mistreatment/bullying of rookies, similarly to how seasoned nurses "haze" new-grad nurses and other comparisons. With that being said, what Carter did was in poor taste and should've been called a flagrant, was later dealt with in such a manner, and is now probably the most boring storyline on my Twitter feed rn. The only statement that needs to be made going forward about this is to disavow racism and harassment towards players (and that absolutely *is* a conversation worth having), rather than random politicians and everyone and their mom writing think-pieces about CC's elbow or Carter's looks or whatever else on either side
I personally don’t think it would still be talked about as much if the Sky didn’t address it as much on social, but that’s going to get a lot of downvotes. Saying you’re not going to talk about it then posting on social, then posting again when one person approaches you on the street asking about it when CC hasn’t spoken after it at all is kind of bizarre. But that’s just my opinion and we’re all entitled to one.
To be honest, I do see where you're coming from. I also think the rhetoric of fans in general is unhelpful. A'ja got clawed up and half the tweets/Reddit comments were saying something along the lines of "quick, should we call the news!!!!" Those little quips and barbs keep the discourse alive and are just as annoying, and they're made in bad faith. Two things can be true: 1) Carter's play was *not* a basketball play and the ball hadn't even been inbounded, so to compare it to standard in-game fouls is disingenuous, even though those calls should still be talked about and certainly did affect A'ja, for example, and 2) it's still time to get over it.
I agree.
The problem I have is this dishonest comparison between the fouls Just because it wasnt during a play doesnt mean it was the worst type of foul Both Reese and A’ja dealt with way yet people (including you) are suggesting the foul on CC was worse. Anyone that’s played sports before would take that hip check over the other fouls. It’s also funny that when other fans who had to deal with CC fans screaming for a whole week call out the inconsistency when it comes to other players being treated *worse* we’re considered the problem. The inaccurate rhetoric that the physical treatment is unique to CC continues to this day so of course people will point it out when it’s contradicted
Yep. This could've been wrapped up. If it ended at the presser. But then there were the social media activity (the likes and saying what does Clark do other than shoot 3s). Then it could've been nipped in the bud at the practice but Kennedy said she had "no regrets." That kept giving it legs.
Completely agree. It sounds like fratty bullshit hazing.
This is the best take on this I’ve seen. Thanks for posting.
Welcome to the league should be a veteran player cooking a rookie. Never thought it meant cheap shots.
Agree. But the NBA commission has spoken. Time to let Draymond take out rookies between plays.
Both are welcome to the league moments whether you like that or not doesn’t change the facts. Many rookies come in and get checked it happens. Intentional flagrant fouls happen, it doesn’t make it right but IT IS a part of the game.
Atleast wait till the clock is running.
Yeah Adam Silver sounds like a dumb ass, it wasnt a basketball play at all, it was literally a cheap shot lol im all for physicality and all but lets call it what is it.
The down votes for your comment are bewildering …🤨
Yes, carbine234, you of course are much more knowledgeable about the game of basketball than Adam Silver. We've been waiting all week for your judgment about what a cheap shot is and isnt.
I play pick up basketball, you do that in the park you getting swung at the fuck? Do you actually play ball or you just babbling?
You’d think Carter hit Clark with a Sweet Chin Music the way people are still talking about it Let’s move on folks
But did she pass the aux?
Right on time, dot 😎
Wop wop wop wop wop, Cart fuck em up
Since yesterday’s aces game, there have been no national attention about the physicality towards A’ja including her getting her nose cut at least twice with no whistle as well as losing a contact. There have been countless national posts and discussions for 5 DAYS about the shove to CC and honestly the main criticism should be that it should’ve been called a flagrant in real time then they play on. It’s pretty silly.
I’ve actually seen a lot of criticism towards the stuff against A’Ja, though. It’s a ref problem as much as it’s a media problem. Justice for A’ja 100 percent. Refs are awful. Media is awful. End of story. We just have to accept this I suppose.
Yeah, it’s growing pains with the league. Let’s be honest, a lot of the people chiming in on the CC thing are the same people who contribute to the nba being a soap opera and it seems worse for the w right now because a lot of people who are yapping don’t respect the league nor really any player that’s not CC right now so the discourse is simply ugly
This is a good point. I think they might have good intentions but just not be as educated. Growing pains, as you said. And well said. I think you can play physical basketball and still be kind, too. I hope that’s the way we go.
>I’ve actually seen a lot of criticism towards the stuff against A’Ja Where? I haven't seen anything. I'm not accepting race bait media coverage.
I've seen others saying the opposite. That if Aja can get bloodied then everyone should get bloodied. That's just a bad model. We already have a female UFC league.
Kahleah Copper elbowed Sky Diggs in the face on the way to fhe basket and Diana Turasi literally punched Jewell in the stomach/hip and caused Jewell to be slow to get up. Not to mention the here today, gone tomorrow, more flagrant rookie flagrant that happened before this incident. It's only people that want to complain doing this shit. And in a couple hours they'll brigade and make this thread hell.
Every other foul used a comparison was during live play. Show me an example of where the ball isn't live and someone is hit with a dirty play, then I'll consider it comparable. You can't be considered competitive if you do cheap shots when the play is dead. That's Draymond level of stupidity, and should be called out for.
I have 0 issue with chennedy being called out for that. It was simply a dirty play. It should’ve been a flagrant when it happened. It’s been 5 days and beaten to death. There is simply nothing else to say about it. I don’t know any dirty play in the nba that wasn’t Draymond that’s been beaten to death for 5 days. We can acknowledge that it was dirty and move on to focus on other parts of the league
Draymond shenangians were going on a few weeks. but besides that's besides the point.... However, you must recognize that it's everyone's efforts that is keeping this topic alive for days. Carter should have just addressed it after the game and be done with it, but she and Reese addressed it the day after and then kept talking about it. Reese's choke slam was talked about that day, ended that day. It didn't go into the next day and then have some defense about that player being competitve or what not edit: you said wasn't draymond. Misread, however in this story, all CC news would be a news story like Draymond and a Flagrant foul. Stories are built around certain individuals.
Yep. They kept it going for an extra day when it wasn’t needed. They aren’t talking about it anymore. Because it’s over. It’s been 5 days. Reese’s slam started and ended in a day. Just like CC’s shove should’ve. There’s no reason to be still talking about it for 5 days, man. What more is there to say aside from it being dirty and should’ve been a flagrant?
I'm shocked that this is such a controversial take on here. I feel like people's judgment is being clouded by their hatred for CC stans. It's okay to have a balanced take and say yes, that was a shitty act that accomplished nothing but wow, people's discourse about it is annoying and disrespectful sometimes -- I don't get people's opposition to that.
It's almost been a week. What I don't like is that all the players have been talked about like she is being cheap shotted every game. The foul was upgraded as it should have been.
There just seems to be anger from OG fans against both the CC fans and CC stans. They are blinded by something and cant see how all this can be good for the league.
I really do feel this. I'm just about the biggest leftist in my friend group and even *I* feel like people have lost the plot when they're incorrectly and dangerously spreading misinformation about how CC herself is probably racist, etc. I also feel like people are really downplaying the Sky's role in a lot of this. Of course they don't deserve racism, no one does -- but you should definitely expect (reasonable and non-harassing) criticism when you make an egregiously dirty play, hop up to cheer on that dirty play like the Commissioner's Cup itself was handed to your team, or instigate shit on Twitter, etc.
I feel like a lot of people just really hate CC, whether because of herself or because of her fans/media attention/etc, so will hop on any criticism of her. It is what it is but I do think she’s being punished enough by the way her season is going, don’t think we need to add personality conjecture on top of it!
[Pat Bev pushed Chris Paul to the ground during a time out](https://youtu.be/Hk7fBc6uQ_M?si=2WC-lrOylojWVHgw&t=16). It was worst than what Chennedy did and no one cared about it. A lot of live play fouls are way worst than Chennedy's foul. CC was more embarrassed than hurt on the play. Chennedy is smaller than her, she's not a big. The overblown reaction and coverage of the foul is embarrassing.
are you saying no media covered that incident? Yea it’s a worse cheap shot but no one came out and said “Ive been hit the exact same way and I didn’t complain” in a press conference the next day. Pat v CP3 has been a story for years and has a lot of history
They reviewed last nights foul. The league didn't upgrade it. What are you asking for here?
What are you talking about…?
The cut on A'jas nose. They reviewed the play in game and saw nothing and the league saw nothing. So what are you talking about with the physicality that needs to be addressed for A'ja?
Ah, I see. My main point is that people who are complaining about physicality aren’t being consistent. The girl got her nose cut twice and there was no prolonged discourse about physicality. CC was the victim of a dirty play and it’s got 5 days of discourse. There just doesn’t need to be that much time devoted to it paired with the media asking other players about it for the those 5 days.
Now understand that the league did upgrade the Carter foul the next day and the referee's refused to review it in game. So there is your difference
That was my point. There was no need to talk about the shove for 5 days after the league rectified their call
Show me a play we Aja got fouled 90 feet from the basket without the ball while the clock was stopped? Didn't happen she got hit while in the paint shooting and got blooded up. But that was IN the game. You can't gaslight you way into these being the same. Just accept it and move on. Trying to tell people what they are seeing isn't real is a bad look.
Literally what are you talking about?? What gaslighting?? All I’ve said is people are complaining about physicality but when there’s actual physicality on someone, there’s crickets. Idk if you need to reread what I said but numerous times I’ve said that what happened to CC was dirty. Where did I claim it wasn’t real?? But I ask you, what about the shove warrants *5 days* of discourse?
>Where did I claim it wasn’t real?? Your pretending it's the same thing. It's not. The complaint isnt about physicality. It's about targeting and non basketball plays. A foul during normal play like driving to the hoop ISNT comparable to one 90 feet from the basket during stopped time. Trying to pretend like we should be reacting to these incidents the same way is gaslight. Pretending like what happened to CC is "just basketball" is gaslighting. Sorry if you don't like hearing it but that is what gaslighting it. Trying to convince people what they know to be true really isn't.
This might overtake will smith and Chris rock.
Tbf the super kick has been so devalued and watered down
Sheesh, we’re seriously still discussing this? People need to let it go.
Quandary: if a known violent person at your job( say they were fired from previous jobs for getting violent with former employees)came into your place of work and randomly threw you to the ground as your facing the other way would you not seek regress? Would you want people to just let it go? Nope it was an attack plain and simple. She has a history of violence and the murder face she made show she wanted to hurt cc.. did she succeed? No she just made herself look like a moron. https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/wnba/news/chennedy-carter-controversy-timeline-dream-sparks-sky/1ba7592291a5a1b421d8f6ea
I’ve been watching the W for many years. I know Chennedy Carter, I’ve watched her since she was in college. Please don’t try and lecture me. It’s a physical game with their hearts on the line, and a passion to win. That’s how basketball is. I’m sure we can both agree the physicality of this job far outranks any other hypothetical job you want to call into question. This type of shit happens in basketball all the time. Men’s and women’s. Get over it and let’s all move on.
Wow, we'd better ban UFC, facing known violent people is a job requirement there and no one should ever have to deal with that in their place of work.
So I'm looking at the transcript of this quote and he never uses the word "should". That adds a bit of a spin on it. That's why take everything on social media with a grain of salt. Here's that full quote: I'll leave the specific question about the foul to my colleague, Commissioner (Cathy) Engelbert. Other than as a fan, obviously it's nothing new in basketball that there's sort of "welcome to the league" moments, especially for heralded rookies, but of course I want to see Caitlin treated fairly and appropriately in the league. I would say it seems like she can take care of herself. She's a tough player. I think it may be lost on some people that are new to basketball, in terms of a little bit of controversy in the WNBA, what an incredible talent she is..."
Thanks. Always appreciate going to the source if possible. Here’s the video if it’s that of interest. https://youtu.be/WY90QULiJ74?si=aqc9GAfp6T6CtkLp
All of this continued discussion could've been averted by the referees during the game, and the player (Carter) after the game. We all know this! Maybe the refs will learn from their decision. Maybe coaches and players will learn from this for their weakness of character to just call the hard foul what it was and not make excuses...and answer the hard questions. I have no pity anyone on the Sky for how they dealt with it at the time. It's on them. CC handled it with poise and intelligence. I personally haven't mentioned this foul to any real person in my life, not family, not friends. It's only here I hear about it. I guess people need to keep talking because at this moment there are 147 comments on this post, and I'm adding my own two cents worth.
I've never been a fan of how the nba of wnba treats rookies. It all seems like hazing or bullying to me.
Omg who gives a shit? Can we please move on.
UConn women's basketball head coach Geno Auriemma among those who aren't happy with the way some WNBA players are approaching going up against Indiana Fever guard Caitlin Clark. "Is she facing the rookie challenge, the rookie hardships that are inherent with being a rookie? Yes," Auriemma said Tuesday, per ESPN's Michael Voepel. "She's also being targeted." Auriemma continued and compared Clark's situation to those of prominent NBA stars. "I don't remember when [Michael] Jordan came into the [NBA], guys looking to go out and beat him up," he said. "I don't remember when [Larry] Bird and Magic [Johnson] came in the league and elevated the NBA, them getting targeted and getting beat up just because of who they were and the attention they were getting. "Appreciate the fact that now's the time [for the WNBA]. I get it. It's long overdue. Why are you blaming that kid? It's not her fault, because you would trade places with her in a minute, but you are not there. You're not her. So, you're [complaining] that she's getting what she's getting."
geno also said that her delusional fanbase and media who set these unrealistic expectations for her is the problem.
The real concern is that Chennedy Carter has a history of Impulse Control. Her behavior is part of a pattern which resulted in her removal from TWO other teams.
Oh really? According to the internet that was a hate crime.
This might actually mean something if the NBA and Silver hadn’t gotten rid of all the BS “physical contact” you still see in the W 20 years ago. A “welcome to the NBA moment” is generally getting dunked on or having your shot blocked, etc. It certainly isn’t choke slams or off the ball blindsided cheap shots. Also, when has Silver ever GAF about the WNBA other than using it as a tax write off? He’s as responsible for how poorly the WNBA is run as much as the WNBA commissioner.
It's a weird thing for Silver to say and maybe he just thought he's drawing a line under it and waving it away. The NBA just had the most hyped rookie season since LeBron in Wemby and it pretty much felt like a season long love-in for him from the league's stars. This isn't the 90s.
Exactly. The differences between the leagues are so striking. And Wemby is a skinny 19 year old from France. That’s someone the other players could have definitely “sent a message to.” I remember what Dirk had to put up with his first few years. That’s just not how things are done now and that’s a good thing.
Clark's "welcome to the league" treatment is kind of crazy though. That Sky vs. Fever game is the only game I've watched this season (it was available on Prime, I don't have these other channels the games are on) and Clark is being guarded like it's NBA playoff defense. Full court press every possession, blitzes, double team schemes, hard fouls. All of the social media, and regular media shenanigans are wild. Painting Clark as a villiain that WNBA vets are gunning for because she's "young, paid well, WHITE, attractive, straight" is so crazy. Just start calling it like it is. Clark's full-court press, hard defense welcome to the league is because the girl has insane talent and every team and coach is coming after her because she has potential to torch any team and to have the best chance at winning games, coaches and players are trying to contain her. All this seems like to me is a lack of respect. I'm not saying she should be praised or given special treatment, or treated like a cute little puppy. Let her pay her dues and earn her stripes through good play. But the whole narrative surrounding her and recent incidents is really turning me off from considering regular viewing of games or supporting my local Chicago Sky team at their stadium. And that's what you don't want as the WNBA. Not just for me as an individual but how many others like me might be turned away from interest in the WNBA because of how players and the media are portraying a promising young rookie.
That’s from the guy who suspends / fines people for making vague allegations that a referee might have swallowed his whistle to benefit a star player whose favourable treatment has been obvious to everyone. And who’s made “hanging on the rim 0.34 seconds too much” gets you T-ed up because it’s “taunting”. Sorry that’s not credible.
Just saying CC doesn't care: [https://x.com/NBC4Sports/status/1799118647111164077](https://x.com/NBC4Sports/status/1799118647111164077) And we shouldn't too...just let them hoop! On the flip side, the fact that she's living rent free in EVERYONE's minds is insane and speaks volumes about the reach.
This is a ridiculous take. That sort of play is unnecessary, not enjoyable, and dangerous. There is absolutely zero chance that Caitlin will ever "welcome" a rookie to the league like that. It's classless, and should be vehemently called out every time it happens.
Agreed. I know rookie hazing will never go away, but the hard fouls are context dependent in my opinion. Like, there's a difference between a hard foul while also playing the ball and just blindside shoving someone to the ground. The former I can accept, but the latter is just unacceptable behavior.
Silver knows he wouldn’t keep that same energy if a player knocked Wemby from behind during a dead ball
I watched a lot of Spurs games this season, and Wemby took his share of shots this season. The book on him coming in was that he was tall and talented but not that strong yet. He was 19 at the start of the season. So teams played him really physically. They schemed to stop him, double and triple teamed him at times. They did whatever they could to go after him. And in between some amazing highlights, he struggled for the first couple of months if the season. They lost 16 in a row. He learned how to handle it and the team reworked how they used him to take better advantage of his skills. The team learned how to play better together. And things were way better by the end of the season. I didn't see him ever get hit during a dead ball like that. That wasn't a legit basketball play and the flagrant call was absolutely appropriate. But when he was hit hard, it wasn't news, it was just part of what every rookie goes through, rightly or wrongly.
lol Adam silver did not say all of that 💀
This. They took a couple of quick quotes from him and extrapolated way more crap out of it that he didn’t actually say
yeah there’s welcome to the league moments & then there’s just doin stupid shit lol, let’s not be dense?
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Where is Ja? Somebody ask Ja Rule
Great so let the NBA be more lenient when it comes being physical.
They do in the playoffs
Frankly who gives a rats ass about “Adam silver’s” opinion on this lmao
TLDR: NBA commissioner and WNBA refs suck.
While I don’t disagree with this, I do think this should be the quiet part, not the thing that the fucking commissioner says out loud. It will just invite worse hazing.
I think it can be overblown by the media AND be a pretty inexcusable play by Kennedy. Both of those can be true. But this is a bad take by the commissioner, and could lead to more of that behavior.
He's not wrong. It sucks for sure, but he's not wrong. You get touted as the best, you're gonna get tested. I'm still on Matt Barnes's side on this. Caitlin Clark needa push back, and her teammates gotta have her back. I have a coworker I don't like either, but when a client is being shitty to them with no justification, it's all hands from there.
How is this "getting tested" though? I'm asking this earnestly, not in an offensive manner or anything. I could understand that logic if, for example, Carter tested CC by being a really physical defender, or by intercepting CC's passes, or whatever else. That is a test of what CC is touted to be the best at -- basketball. Seems like a pretty wimpy, disingenuous, non-basketball skill-related test to hip-check someone when the ball isn't even in play and you know they won't be looking or expecting it at all.
Sports at a professional level is about more than just being physically skilled at said sport. It also includes having the mental fortitude to deal with oncoming harassment that is intended to throw you off your game. Yes, a dirty hit intended to injure is part of the game. Why? Because you being injured increases the chances the other team wins. A dirty hit to annoy you and make you lose your cool is part of the game to help decrease your efficiency. At a professional level, when your livelihood is at stake, and dependent upon you winning, you are going to do as much as you can get away with to keep playin to keep payin your bills. Now thats not to say it is a good thing. It isnt always a good thing, matter of fact, its more bad than good most times. But that is what separates the best from the rest. The ability to withstand that harassment, and rise above it.
I do understand your explanation and appreciate it, so thanks for writing all of that out. I guess it's just disappointing to me seeing how there are so many ways players get their mental fortitude tested outside of dirty plays (hell, even off the court) -- but I do see exactly what you're saying about how it makes sense for the opposing team to do.
All this fake outrage
Seriously. The WNBA obviously is not for that user.
Also remember that the W is a smaller league with less turnover. The competition is even more fierce because these players need to perform to keep their spot. Add to that that Chennedy is a known hothead playing against the person folks have anointed as the greatest thing since sliced bread (who likes to talk shit btw) and you get stuff like this. I’ll also say to me it looked like a bit of a flop. Trae Young got put on his ass trying to do a showboaty move on Trevor Ariza in what was clearly a “Watch yourself” hard foul. Nevermind what would’ve happened to a player in the NFL, especially the old days before the rules changed.
She wasn’t being tested, she was being checked. There are certain things you cannot do. Caitlin’s hands and elbows seem to connect with people’s faces a lot and Chennedy said something to her after being elbowed. Caitlin shit talked back to Chennedy and after sitting with it for a moment, she retaliated. There are certain hits that you don’t shit talk about—someone being hit in the head is one of them. Because now it seems intentional or like you don’t give a fuck if they were hurt or not. And, if that’s the case, they’ll return the favor and not care if you are hurt. This happens in the nba. It’s not common, but certain contact definitely resorts to dirty plays and retaliation, esp if you’re shit talking afterwards. So the check was to tell her to watch her mouth because some people will return the favor. You don’t like it and think it has no room in basketball, so how do you think players feel when someone does reckless and dangerous things and don’t take it seriously? One wrong move could have them out of the game and the sidelines, injured, and/or ruin your career, especially as a wnba player. So if they’re going to be out, they’d rather determine their fates than some careless person or asshole or pay a fine.
Yup, 100% right. People love ignoring the fact that chennedy got elbowed right in the head then caitlin shit talked her right after indicating it wasn't an accident, so obviously chennedy was gonna retaliate. She likes to throw rocks and hide her hands a lot
People are intentionally missing that they exchanged words right before Chennedy pushed her and she looked PISSED. Her fans and Caitlin are pretty lucky it didn’t happen right after the election ow because Chennedy is a hot head. And, honestly, many pro players aren’t going to take kindly to being elbowed then shitting on someone makes you a target. That level of disrespect will not be tolerated, esp when you have to discern if certain contact was intentional or not and how injuries come with the game.
Funny how this blew up but when Angel got chock slammed to the ground nobody seemed to care. Imagine CC being chocked slammed to the ground and the massive coverage it got.
Yeah this is the kind of play that should be eliminated from basketball. One of the best decisions the NBA ever made was when they changed the rules to make players like Bill Lambier useless. The Bad Boy Pistons weren’t good enough at basketball to beat teams like the Bulls, Celtics, and Lakers legitimately so they instead played dirty. I have absolutely zero respect for the Bad Boy Pistons as a result. The WNBA needs some rule changes (or even just some different officiating) to send a message that dirty play won’t be tolerated anymore. It was one thing when nobody was watching, but now millions of fans are tuning in for the first time, and clearly have not liked this part of what they’ve seen based on how dragged out this discourse has been. Fans want to see skilled guards score the basketball, and the current meta isn’t allowing for that because of the cheap shots. I’m not saying physicality should die, the way A’ja Wilson plays is great, it’s the cheap shots and dirty plays that should go away. It’s players like Chennedy Carter will be the ones who take the hit because they’re dirty players. They won’t go as far as the NBA has gone with officiating for more offense, but they need to move from what it is currently. At the moment bigs are way too important in the WNBA meta, and as we all know bigs aren’t marketable in the same way guards are.
All they have to do for that one play is just call it when it happens. Don't need a bunch of rule changes. Or if it's not already it could be like the nba... one free throw and the ball back.
*Exactly.* What has deeply bothered me about this discourse is the way that people are disingenuously conflating "physicality" and "dirty play" as synonyms. It is so unfair, and such a shift of the goalposts, to respond "well, the WNBA is physical, get used to it" when someone's voicing how a dirty play is a dirty play. I *love* the physicality that I've seen so far -- but physicality and dirty plays are two different things, and it's a disservice honestly to the players to pretend that they're not. I've honestly been perturbed by how many strawman arguments, shifted goalposts, logical fallacies, etc have been thrown around during the conversation about this.
Because many of Caitlin’s vocal critics have conflated them. People got mad about a fucking screen. They get upset about her being face guarded and blitzed.
Yep. But tbf they are not all conflating the two, they just like the product. I got downvoted to hell the other day in a thread where people happily announced the WNBA was "like the NBA in the 80's", and that this physicality was missed in the NBA, while I argued player safety should be the most vital priority for the league's growth
I think I remember seeing your exact comment and remembering the masses weren't gonna like it, lol. It seems that part of always being in the more popular men's league's shadow makes us think that to achieve parity, we should do *everything* like them, including the old-school bad stuff.
I feel like those leagues went through those mistakes so the WNBA doesn't have to, but here we are
“Deeply bothered” 🤣 Are our clutching your pearls atm?
You are unwell, to go through and reply to so many of my comments with derision that contributes nothing to the conversation. I've been nothing but earnest, asked questions, shared my thoughts, etc while being as respectful as possible to everyone involved. If you have thoughts on those thoughts, then use your words like a grown-up, but otherwise get out of my mentions with your multiple hateful replies.
Huh? Even as it happened, virtually no team respected how the Bad Boy Pistons played. I’m not saying that you are saying that, however, NBA players, coaches, and so forth have never respected habitually dirty players. Although there are exceptions for dirty plays depending on why it happened and if there isn’t a history or trend of this behavior. Dirty plays were built into Detroit’s play style. Dirty plays cannot be eradicated because it’s not always obvious that something is a dirty play and can take a while to even realize what’s going on. Such as the nba player who would position himself under shooters so they had no landing space. Dirty plays sometimes are a failure of officiating and other times its plays that, while not dirty, but also have unnecessary and excessive contact. You’re completely overlooking why dirty plays are an issue now—it’s not because more people are watching, it’s because of who they want to protect: Caitlin Clark. But the reason isn’t simply because she’s a talented player, it’s due to sexism, racism, and misogynoir. Women’s sports have been ridiculed by either saying it’s unladylike to be aggressive. Or/Then they’ll turn around and say it’s not a serious sport because there isn’t physicality. But when it comes to black women many don’t give a shit because it’s black women. There have been studies where people have said they believe black people (and sometimes specifically black women) have higher pain tolerance. Some people see us as masculine. But then women add homophobia, especially the masculine women in the league, people just don’t give a fuck. Now you have a white woman who is straight and suddenly people care about the physicality. If this was about having more eyes, people would’ve been calling for AT’s head, despite her getting ejected. People would be talking about A’ja being hit in the face three times on a much larger scale than they did Caitlin’s hit. And it’s not happening because these women are BLACK. A’ja is the best player in the league and going on a tear and mainstream media and the loudest proponents of abolishing physical contact have barely made a peep. You realize that Caitlin will be hurt by this too, right? Caitlin has at least three different occasions of hitting people in the face. If players successfully challenged those hit under suggested rule changes, she’d be penalized. I can’t speak on Chennedy before now, however, this is her only dirty play of this season. And it happened because Caitlin shit talked her after elbowing her in the face. Chennedy has been focused on scoring and defending, so what exactly are you talking about here?
You are speaking truth and facts and I 100% support and agree with all you said above. However, nothing you said will ever gain traction unfortunately because that disrupts from the narrative that Cathy and the rest if the WNBA suits, to include media, want to portray.
Let me see; commissioner of the nba, or random redditor
Firstly, plenty of people in positions of power talk out of their ass all of the time, so that point is moot. Secondly, I posed a genuine question in my comment and even clarified that it was meant to elicit an earnest answer, not provoke people. You need to touch grass if that offended you.
He's not wrong. Adam knows the NBA was better with rivalries
Is this what we call white privilege? Every time something happens to CC, the whole world goes crazy, her stans go crazy and so on
Yep. Like Chiney Ogwumike said, we can’t have these conversations each time CC gets fouled. She’s going to be fouled again because basketball is physical. But her fan base keeps dragging it out.
and i think players will be hesitant to defend her aggressively cos of the possible criticism or slander they will get out of it
I say this with respect but this is a lazy and boring argument at this point. Multiple things can be true. Yes, CC likely had an easier time ascending to stardom because she's white. No doubt about it. That Republican politician that complained about Carter? Definitely because CC is white. Sure. But the fact of the matter is that the play *was* dirty. I said the same thing when AT fouled Reese. The outrage by the media is annoying af, and I hear you on that. No one should be talking about this anymore because it's been completely settled. But that doesn't mean that CC fans, or the average watcher, are wrong for saying that was a dirty play. And I say this as a WOC.
100% agree. People’s inability to believe that multiple things can simultaneously be true is a huge part of what has been going wrong in the U.S. the past several years, imo. Complete lack of critical thinking skills. Most of what we encounter in life is in the gray zone as opposed to black and white.
All I’m asking is that we stop acting like Angel Reese had a “highly successful NCAA career” and that the “tremendous additional interest” the WNBA is experiencing has anything to do with her at all. Her stats and popularity support neither of these statements.
It's hilarious to me how much talk this dumb foul has generated. It's almost like the entire world didn't realize that women play basketball and compete and it can get chippy, just like in any other competitive sport. In baseball the pitcher hits the batter, the benches clear and its just another Tuesday. It should have been called a flagrant because that's what it was. But that's the end of the story
Glad Silver said something. He's spot on with the assessment. Bummer it's an issue that needs to be addressed at all. This is a non-issue if it's the NBA. Flagrant, 1 day of media coverage, move on. This is an issue in the WNBA, in the eyes of the media, because racism manifests in its own unique way when you combine it with chauvinism. I'll never know personally, but being a black woman certainly seems to come with a hell of a lot of scrutiny. Frankly, Caitlyn Clark is also getting a raw deal. She's being done a disservice by being treated like a helpless damsel. She's young and learning but she's anything but helpless like is being projected by ignorant "fans" and media members.
Next year, you're gonna see Clark get a James Harden type whistle once the W owners see the real financial numbers she brings lol.
With the dismal season that Fever is having and most likely will not go into the post season, next year people would have moved on to Paige Buckets.
What a goofball
Well, the media is talking about to drive interest in the league. They know Clark Mania will die down soon enough as the team she is on sucks.
I need a second opinion, has anyone heard from Ja Rule?
Classic bad Silver take. Dude is playing a character
In other words, "Sometimes the rules apply, but when we want they don't mean sh*t. And it's been that way for a long time." NBA should hide its face in shame. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZTSD3Gp5NM&pp=ygUrYW0gaSB0aGUgb25seSBvbmUgd2hvIGNhcmVzIGFib3V0IHRoZSBydWxlcw%3D%3D John Goodman as Walter, in The Big Lebowski
He’s right. Angel Reese got mauled and nobody cares about that.
No idea why Silver would double down on this. Just asking to be brigaded by the inflammatory crowd. Let it go and let the league move on. They'll know better to have the refs take a proper action moving forward. No one debates it was at minimum a real time Flagrant 1, probably a 2.
Commissioners openly encouraging rule violations seems odd, but maybe that’s just me
All I take from this is: - Chennedy has gone beast mode since the incident. Kind "sometimes you gotta pop off and show them" - Media, mostly grown men with the emotional intelligence level of a toddler are kosing whatever is left of their mind with this new found attention the women are getting. - At this point, just ask Ja Rule what he thinks. - Media cant let anything go without beating itnto death. And will only move on when the next incident rhey can beat to death comes up
This sub has such a hate boner for Caitlyn Clark
God this is whole thing and the circus around it is so stupid. If you described this situation and said, “Professional Athletes,” instead of their name, it wouldn’t have been a blip on the radar. But because it’s Caitlin Clark and wnba players, the rules are different? Nah fuck that.
That’s the irony of this whole thing. CC fans only care because it happened to CC. They would not care had this happened to any of they player
Can't belive this bum said this quite frankly. How is a cheap shot on a dead ball situation a "welcome to the league" moment? They should focus on other things and let this die down already
he didn't say it "should". That was added to it
5 days straight yall CC fans are crying a river over this. fouls happen all the time in the WNBA and NBA. CC didn't get punched, kicked or maimed, GET OVER IT
I mean Clark also sold it. Which is what you do. SO much of this boils down to people who have LITERALLY never watched pro basketball before.
That’s not a good look for Silver. I do not think he’d put up with that being called a common foul on the floor in the NBA and would be reading refs the riot act.
He never used the word "should". that adds spin to it. that was added