No. They were struck down because activists kept monitoring the sites, meaning they had standing to fight the bans because they were hurt by it.
The same thing happened with marriage equality. Once the bans happened, people got standing and could fight the bans, resulting in the exact opposite result as what the bans tried to reach.
Yeah, people seem to forget that these laws can be the best thing for a cause, at least in the US with it's strong constitutional protections. I don't know how it works in Australia.
The constitution is only as powerful as the people enforcing it wants it to be.
At any point the US government or the SCOTUS can go "Actually the constitution is more of a guideline than actual rules" and the American people can do fuck all about it.
Actually that's not true, 40% of them will oppose it, 40% will support it, and the remaining 20% will want to die because they realize they're in an active hostage situation on a national scale.
And so it is that even if Congress doesn't pass an abortion access bill, we'll get something like Roe v Wade again. It's just simply inevitable that a wronged woman will bring a case against a state ban, and they'll *definitely* lose at some point. I'm not sure even a state constitution will hold up to it.
Space travel is austere (anything you take with you costs fuel, which costs more fuel and so on) and extremely hard on the human body. As much as I enjoy the image of Bezos' body slowly falling apart in a tiny cabin with no creature comforts and heightened radiation exposure, the reality is he's stuck down here with the rest of us.
Don’t worry, they will. They’re largely inept and generally rely on being able to pay people to do stuff for them. Once they get done speedrunning societal collapse for short term profit maximization it won’t take very long for everyone actually worth a shit on their payroll to realize their money no longer holds value.
they get to die alone, cold and irradiated in a shrinking closed loop environment. where they will always have less today than they did yesterday and the air smells like stale urine and faeces
You aren't thinking grim enough.
Think about embarking on a journey aboard a generation ship to the nearest potentially human habitable planet, lead by a egocentric billionaire. You live and die in a cramped metal space, and so will your children, which you are forced to have because the mission is more important than you and your wishes. You eat stale rations all your life, made from reprocessed excrement and dead people, and if you are lucky, maybe some carrots from hydroponics, assuming you are high ranking enough to be allowed to eat them.
You get to risk your life maintaining the poorly constructed nuclear reactor, suffering constant Radiation sickness and get nothing in return, except cancer. Even your children, or your children's children, won't see any reward for your work. Even the last generation isn't guaranteed a livable planet, because the images we saw about the planet we embarked towards were years old, thanks to the time it takes light to travel to earth, and back when you embarked, we didn't have the tech to definitively say the planet was habitable. For all you know, this journey will have been for nothing, and your bloodline will die trying to live on a hostile planet where the atmosphere is poisonous. Or worse, the planet is already inhabited... In any case, even if it was habitable, then you are still faced with the prospect of being the first settlers on an alien planet.
Order on the ship is kept by the billionaires VIP passengers and their descendants. The ruling elite. They don't have to work, and get to enjoy a life of moderate luxury. You are a slave to them and their will. Any disobedience is harshly punished, and the punishment also applies to your descendants. But as much as you want to rebel, you know it is impossible. Because only they can control the ships systems. Any hint of rebellion is crushed with brutal efficiency, using gas that renders people unconscious, or at worst, sealing the section of the ship off and being drained of oxygen, and your bodies used to feed the surviving population of the ship. And the rest of the people will be forced to reproduce even more, to maintain the workforce.
...sorry, weird errant thought. But enjoy the mental image! I personally quite enjoy dystopian sci-fi stories. Maybe you do too. As long as they stay in the realm of stories, at least.
nothing says fun like sitting in a bubble on a barren planet watching decades old movies, hoping your life support doesn't break because the replacement parts were made in a factory that doesn't exist anymore.
Life on another planet would suck unless its another earth. The closest one still too far to get to.
You know its bad when there is just a MASSIVE push saying "its not too late" and "stop the doomerism, its not that bad" by the same pro business news outlets that were trying to dismiss climate change just a few years ago.
Its almost as if they are in damage control mode and cant deny it anymore.
Ouch you hit a nerve with some pussy neoliberal stock traders.
Doomerism is absolutely *vital* right now. We need kids to get a real picture of how fucked things are and are going to be. If they don't have a realistic goal, they'll fail for lack of trying. Shit the same even goes for the rest of us old farts.
If people don't wake the fuck up right now, they're not going to get a chance to. So you're *spot on* sir - they are in damage control mode attempting to draw out the era of excess profit.
Its literally the narcissist's motto:
It didnt happen
if it did, it wasnt that bad
And if it was, that's not a big deal. < -- we are here
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I meant it, you deserved it
The fact I am seeing articles on major sites saying "it doesn't matter if climate change is happening, it wont kill humanity" is more scary than 100 wild fires in canada.
Same thing happened here. You only have to look at how a government treats whistle blowers to know if they've sold their morals. The East Timor spying scandal and the way Witness K was treated shows how the Australian Government operates, regardless of which party leads.
The Arkansas bill is appears to still be active. Based on that page the others appear to have been struck down by their respective state supreme courts or lower.
The top court has been taken over by corrupt GOP aligned judges. If they want to reinterpret the constitution to make these laws stick, they can.
Right now they don't seem to want to, so its more like pantomime for the base.
You gotta be kidding us...
They lobbied that its ok to abuse animals.on farms and no one is allowed to report it.
What the actual fuck whoever agreed to be paid to lobby fir that should be:
1. Ashamed of themselves.
2. Be legally allowed to be hunted for sport.
Interesting we have lawmakers that will Aid in the cover-up of illegality. The fact that any law would be even written to hide the fact that there is gas being spewed is criminal.
I mean, fuck oil and all but all thermal Imaging does is show that there is hot gas. It doesn't show what the gas is made up of, nor does it really indicate how much is vented. It's a great tool for the industry if they want to avoid emitting gas, it's a poor tool to prove wrongdoing.
My guess is this will be handwaved away and denied rather than forbidden.
I definitely do not recommend bird seed, scattering seeds from invasive plants, buying crickets and cockroaches for cheap on Amazon, paint thinner, bottles of: milk, fish and dirt to throw into bushes, paintball guns with bright paint, copper nails in trees, shattered glass and nails, and salt as it’s about $2 a kilo and won’t let anything grow.
fuck that, much easier to get corrupt cops to arrest these fuckers. or like the loggers in Australia make it illegal to protest, ohh shit i mean much like the fossil fuel companies already made it illegal to protest.
They tried that not long ago at the Woodside CEOs house.
Resulted in 3 out of 4 arrested, and the premier wanting to know why ABC was there.
https://www.watoday.com.au/politics/western-australia/wa-premier-demands-answers-from-abc-bosses-over-protest-at-woodside-ceo-s-home-20230802-p5dt9a.html
I actually just attended a conference where an expert talked about remote sensing capabilities for methane
Main takeaway was that it's very difficult to estimate the volume of methane emissions from satellites, but it seems like that the national estimation tool may be underestimating the emissions of some sites by a decent margin
However the sensing tech has a fair few limitations including not being able to see through water vapour (clouds, off shore ops) and the current satellites can only provide about 20 seconds of data per day
Yeah theres a fair few upcoming projects. However in order to get a decent estimation it seems like ground truthing still needs to be done and looked fairly complicated
These thermal cameras are only really good for leak detection. They dont give much info on the total size of a plume
Leak detection is exactly what the US needs.
All those old unclosed oil bore holes are emitting a shitton of methane. Most of those are undocumented.
Up until now, no profit orgs were driving around with mobile methane detectors to try and pinpoint them.
I hope the new satalites can help with that
[youtube](https://youtu.be/V2YXagkG43w) this is a great Australian YouTuber, in this video he explains in his typical Aussie style that the gas runaways from the mines are more damaging to the environment than all the cars in Australia combined.
Also as those emissions are concentrated in few specific locations, they could be addressed much more efficiently than a wide spread emission channel like automobiles.
Of course Australia is a special case, big land with relatively fewer cars, in US and Europe the math would be different. But still pretty sobering.
My responsibilities at work are detecting GHG in the oil and gas industry. The amount of hydrocarbon I've seen emitted into the atmosphere is mind numbing. The Oil majors are well aware of this and will stop at nothing to keep it under wraps.
It's not about the money. It's about cremating the creatures that dwell in the hydrocarbons to the FULLEST EXTENT POSSIBLE. FOREVER. Just another war. Like the war against wildlife, but way more secret.
Would you mind directing me to some of your industry’s publications, or list a few companies I can research. I was in the oil and gas industry on the seismic monitoring side of things, but I would love to see more of this side of things.
It’s pretty strictly regulated in the UK, flaring and cold flaring incurs a heavy tax and is a fiscal matter. Metering it is legally vital and failing to do so would risk your license to operate. I’m surprised the australians allow this.
Turkmenistan is venting massive quantities natural gas straight into the atmosphere.
> The western fossil fuel field in Turkmenistan, on the Caspian coast, leaked 2.6m tonnes of methane in 2022. The eastern field emitted 1.8m tonnes. Together, the two fields released emissions equivalent to 366m tonnes of CO2, more than the UK’s annual emissions, which are the 17th-biggest in the world.
> Flaring is used to burn unwanted gas, putting CO2 into the atmosphere, but is easy to detect and has been increasingly frowned upon in recent years.
> Venting simply releases the invisible methane into the air unburned, which, until recent developments in satellite technology, had been hard to detect. Methane traps 80 times more heat than CO2 over 20 years, making venting far worse for the climate.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/09/mind-boggling-methane-emissions-from-turkmenistan-revealed
The unwanted gas part has always confused me. Why not just put it in a tank? Isn’t it worth money? It seems like pure malice to just burn or vent it when someone could have used that gas.
So from an industry personnel standpoint this flaring/venting is nothing new. When you drill a well oftentimes you have a liquid gas mixture (natural gas and oil). Since these are handled and processed very differently you separate them. Depending on the quality of each product you could be doing some refining at the wellhead or it could be sent to a refinery to sell at market.
So as a hypothetical let's say you dig a oil well because you've done the geotech survey and have a good idea where the oil is. Now as you're pulling it out you've got 90% oil which sells at a high price and You've got contracts set up to either ship it via pipeline or truck to be processed. But you can't ship it with the natural gas so you split them but what do you do with the natural gas. It's high pressure at this point, but not high enough to actually be considered CNG or LNG that you could send via truck. So if you don't have a pipeline nearby, you are looking at spending substantial capital to pay a pipeline that might take a year or two to build for a well that you aren't even sure is going to last 6 months until it's empty.
That cost on a highly liquid well is usually well above what you would actually make from the natural gas selling at current market prices. Venting was the old practice but it's not used as much in modern countries because the environmental cost is so high and regulations are trying to limit exactly that. So they flare it instead. In other countries where they don't give a fuck then venting is still the norm.
Tl;Dr Profit from natural gas on an oil well is less than the infrastructure to transport the natural gas.
I find it fustrating, when people compare EV vs. ICE, they almost take PV installation CO2 emissions, but for ICE they only calculate fuel burning emissions and forget all needed to produce said fuel :(
I find a clear thread.
Post about Australian emissions to comment that Turkmenistan is doing similar with their wells and a comment lamenting we don't track such emissions as being part of the gas supply chain the way we do with renewables and their co2 outputs.
Edit to add: u/D-moran seems like an argumentative Canadian and u/DavidKarlas is commenting in some Slavic looking language on most of his posts.
My conclusion is u/YoreWelcome is actually an AI designed to sow disinformation about who is a bot.
Not that I agree with your conclusion, but it does remind me of a Smarter Every Day video on political bots in social media. Most often they aren't there to provide an agenda or take one side or the other but just to cause distrust and narrow an argument from being broad and nuanced to specific and unproductive.
So regardless of bot or not, the conclusion is the same.
That's not true though. Most in-depth reports consider the entire lifecycle cost. EVs still come out ahead (but obviously not as much as when you're only looking at the post-construction emissions).
Though of course, personal vehicles in general - regardless of propulsion type - are extremely inefficient compared to buses and trains.
It's like watching mannequins have sex. They are going through the motions, but they aren't producing anything of value. To be clear, I am referring to the bot comments and replies in this thread. I agree with you, the comment you replied to was vaguely related topically, but not relevant to the article about methane emissions from The Guardian.
Here in NZ pre-covid we used to be able to get E85 at one gas chain which from the ethanol was made from waste byproducts of the dairy industry. You can still get E10 from there but it hasn't come back since Covid unless you buy it in drums 😭 I'd run all my cars on it as it's not as energy intensive as the ethanol made from corn or sugar cane like other countries.
In France we have E85 made from fermenting sugar beets, and it used to be a great economical alternative to fuel but now about 70% of the price you pay for it is tax, which makes it barely more economical than normal E10 :(
yet somehow forget the inherent inefficiency of conversion to free hydrogen, the storage thereof, and the infrastructure to do so.
Its like ignoring living on a 50th story building without taking into account pumping water to service your toilettes, much less the elevators to get you in and out of the building etc etc.
You realise hydrogen had to be created right? Either from renewable energy or fossil fuels. Hydrogen is essentially an energy battery. It just has far more losses than batteries
-I build mining trucks that run on hydrogen, great for situations in the middle of nowhere where power infrastructure is limited to charge batteries. But hydrogen is overall terrible for the average car.
Their whole point is to include all the emissions required in the fuel pipeline.. hydrogen is effectively the same as electric, just using hydrogen as the 'battery' instead of lithium.
Sure, then we need to factor in the energy/resources used to extract it, transport it, store it, and then the loss in converting it into electricity.
It's still a monumental loss of energy no matter how you spin it.
Dad: "Aw no, *no*, I'm not playing these games. Everytime we do, you guys ruin the world while twirling your evil moustaches. Not happening!"
*Ends up playing game anyway*
I remember when they did this in Texas last year. Pretty wild stuff
https://apnews.com/article/science-texas-trending-news-climate-and-environment-0eb6880f7c4532a845155a3bd44c2e4b
Well if history has taught me anything, it's that the parties responsible for this will take this information seriously and take swift action to fix the leaks.
...I love the energy company's immediate response. It isn't "Wow, we'll have to look into that" or "No, we weren't aware" or "We're not sure of how this works, but it's worth investigating..." No, it's "That's wrong, it's unsound science (even though we have just been introduced to this new information" and leave us alone while we count our money."
I mean you know you’re in for a flimsy read when it kicks off with a reference to the Predator film in order to relate thermal imaging to the reader (and putting the location of Predator in the wrong place at that).
This and your comment are both down to the journalist and yahoo news though. The measurements from ACF and their reporting of what’s going on can still be perfectly sound, and this sort of thing is a well known issue with fossil fuel plants (and gas transportation) when they aren’t run/maintained properly, ie. it’s an issue worth reporting on. If you want better reporting, don’t read Yahoo news.
These fucking cunts not flaring it to hide the emissions should be strung up and the companies involved should have the entirety of their wealth confiscated.
Weird that the climate change we see is faster than expected compared to our emmisions...
This is crime against humanity. Shouldnt be hard to identify the people responsible
32 sites is NOTHING compared to the thousands of sites throughout Australia.
Probably drove past double that on my way to the site I'm working at today. So I'd say only 32 out of those surveyed isn't bad at all, and now they know what to fix.
Actually was involved in a project setting up similar cameras for one of the largest Natural Gas players as they wanted to make sure they're conforming with Canadian standards.
Glad to see them using this tech elsewhere in the world.
Oil and gas wells drilled after 9/18/2015 in the US are required by law to be inspected at least semi-annually for leaks using a thermal imaging camera or equivalent. Soon, that will go up to quarterly as new rulemaking comes into effect. Sites are also required to perform weekly AVO inspections (audio, visual, olfactory) to look for leaks. Detected leaks are required to be repaired and reinspected to confirm the repair. All of these things go on an annual report that is submitted to the EPA.
You mean the thing we've known about and have been regulating into the ground for several years?
https://apnews.com/article/pipeline-methane-leaks-climate-change-phmsa-e3c9e06ad83975673996491e2db880ba#:~:text=If%20finalized%2C%20the%20rules%20would,pipelines%20by%20up%20to%2055%25.
The whole reason they have flares in the first place even way back when is to reduce emissions.
The USA already has covered this with regulation. With that said, why are you even bringing up the USA when it has nothing to do with the topic?
You also don’t really have to “tell us”, we don’t care about your country like you care about ours.
>You've probably seen thermal imaging cameras used in the Predator movie series to locate people hidden in the South American jungle.
Predator was set in central America who the fuck is this clown
>"There is no evidence that the ACF’s work is based on sound science
How isn't their method sound science? They literally pointed a thermal camera and saw the gas seeping.
Let's just nuke the Aussies,
the roos, the 70 million rabbits they have,
mamba snakes, alligators, black widows, samba snakes,
Caymans, white sharks, Dory, box jelly fish, Murdoch, Nemo, blue ringer octopus, E fucking MU ...
Nothing bad but everything good will come through the complete and utter destruction of the colony of "Nouvelle Hollande,' we also would like to add New Holland PA IL OH Saint Petersburg to the target list.
/Cordially signed, the NZ delegation.
Thermal imaging doesn't make sense - implying that all thermal sources are methane is erroneous unless they can 100% identify that said exhaust vent is from a methane source.
NASA has a methane satellite methane monitoring system already set up with actual scientific basis with the [NASA Carbon Monitoring System](https://carbon.nasa.gov/cms/) that is [actually worth looking at](https://disc.gsfc.nasa.gov/datasets/GFEI_CH4_1/summary), and not this pseudoscience nonsense from the yahoo article.
They say thermal imaging, but it is best to use the term optical gas imaging. The cameras I’ve used (FLIR GF series) for methane have lens filters which allow only a narrow band of infrared light to get into the sensor which is cooled to below -300 F. Methane absorbs light in that IR band so if there is about a 2 C difference between ambient conditions and the methane, it can be visualized. The technology is pretty neat and quite sound; OGI is way more sensitive than the high stand-off remote sensing employed by nasa satellites.
It's alarming to think about the potential environmental and health impacts of these emissions. It's a stark reminder that we must prioritize sustainable practices to safeguard our environment for future generations.
Flaring is literally better for the environment than venting.
Methane is 25x more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. I can’t believe some people frown upon flaring.
Flaring is admitting there's an issue, admitting that there's any venting happening in the first place.
Hence, no flaring. Because people might not notice an invisible gas otherwise.
From the article:
> You've probably seen thermal imaging cameras used in the Predator movie series to locate people hidden in the South American jungle.
I have not because Predator takes place in *Central* America, not South America.
Mate, they didn't even look up how to spell a towns name (Condamine) correctly, they definitely aren't researching or fact checking anything else thoroughly.
I am certainly not a greenie or a tree hugger. However, we should do better. Just because it's the right thing to do. Here in Oregon, daries don't let the cow out to pasture. They live indoors from cradle to grave. Coming from Wisconsin, it was unbelievable to me. We have plenty of grazing land, makes zero sense. After seeing it for myself, I understood the Happy Cow campaign from California.
>"There is no evidence that the ACF’s work is based on sound science, it has provided scant detail on its methodology and its results have not been replicated by regulators or qualified independent experts," a Santos spokesperson told Yahoo News Australia.
That reminds me of so many online arguments I've read. Trollish.
Gas seen coming out of gas vent intended to vent excess gas? We can't allow that. /s
I'm really not a fan of gas companies and would rather they be shutdown and replaced with better energy sources.
But this article seems to be making something out of nothing. All it does is present some camera images detecting gas flowing from an outlet where it's expected to be, then they've raised some question about whether pipes are leaking... Clearly it's designed like this and this kind of infrastructure has been regulated approved and in place for decades.
Maybe we can design a better system than a gas vent, maybe that's the point here, but creating a bunch of fear without getting measurements or analyzing how frequent or damaging this event is doesn't get results.
Just because there's a vent doesn't mean it is there to vent gas all day every day. You might want those for emergencies where you'd vent so that everything doesn't explode. But if you are venting all the time, you clearly didn't have a plan for more ecological processing of the gasses.
Did you even read the article at all? Methane is 20x than co2 for the environment and they’re not flaring it to hide the fact they’re releasing it cause a gas is invisible and fire isn’t. Congrats you are the perfect consumer
New legislation to prohibit thermal imaging of fossil fuel infrastructure introduced to parliament in 3..2...1.
Given the farming industry has successfully lobbied in some US states that we can’t report on farm abuse and standards….. you are not wrong.
While those bills were passed, they have all been struck down as unconstitutional. Those laws no longer exist.
In the USA maybe, but they do exist in Australia. https://voiceless.org.au/hot-topics/ag-gag/
But did they fulfill their initial purpose while they did exist? And therein lies the problem.
No. They were struck down because activists kept monitoring the sites, meaning they had standing to fight the bans because they were hurt by it. The same thing happened with marriage equality. Once the bans happened, people got standing and could fight the bans, resulting in the exact opposite result as what the bans tried to reach.
Yeah, people seem to forget that these laws can be the best thing for a cause, at least in the US with it's strong constitutional protections. I don't know how it works in Australia.
> strong constitutional protections. Eh. Not so strong anymore since the highest court is fully under "conservative" control.
The constitution is only as powerful as the people enforcing it wants it to be. At any point the US government or the SCOTUS can go "Actually the constitution is more of a guideline than actual rules" and the American people can do fuck all about it. Actually that's not true, 40% of them will oppose it, 40% will support it, and the remaining 20% will want to die because they realize they're in an active hostage situation on a national scale.
Yes, which is exactly why we should totally weaken and violate the 2nd Amendment and further give the state a monopoly on violence.... Oh wait.
But… that’s exactly what conservatives strive to fight for… unless your definition of conservative is different.
It’s not strong because they say you can’t rewrite the constitution without going through the process to rewrite it?
The Federalists are going to absolutely wreck this country.
And so it is that even if Congress doesn't pass an abortion access bill, we'll get something like Roe v Wade again. It's just simply inevitable that a wronged woman will bring a case against a state ban, and they'll *definitely* lose at some point. I'm not sure even a state constitution will hold up to it.
Not with the current SCOTUS.
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Space travel is austere (anything you take with you costs fuel, which costs more fuel and so on) and extremely hard on the human body. As much as I enjoy the image of Bezos' body slowly falling apart in a tiny cabin with no creature comforts and heightened radiation exposure, the reality is he's stuck down here with the rest of us.
Don’t worry, they will. They’re largely inept and generally rely on being able to pay people to do stuff for them. Once they get done speedrunning societal collapse for short term profit maximization it won’t take very long for everyone actually worth a shit on their payroll to realize their money no longer holds value.
Time to start saving up bottle caps. I knew there was a reason I drink 4 24-packs of mountain dew a month...
they get to die alone, cold and irradiated in a shrinking closed loop environment. where they will always have less today than they did yesterday and the air smells like stale urine and faeces
Ngl I would rather die on earth than live the life of an early settler on another planet especially within our lifetimes that is not a plus.
You aren't thinking grim enough. Think about embarking on a journey aboard a generation ship to the nearest potentially human habitable planet, lead by a egocentric billionaire. You live and die in a cramped metal space, and so will your children, which you are forced to have because the mission is more important than you and your wishes. You eat stale rations all your life, made from reprocessed excrement and dead people, and if you are lucky, maybe some carrots from hydroponics, assuming you are high ranking enough to be allowed to eat them. You get to risk your life maintaining the poorly constructed nuclear reactor, suffering constant Radiation sickness and get nothing in return, except cancer. Even your children, or your children's children, won't see any reward for your work. Even the last generation isn't guaranteed a livable planet, because the images we saw about the planet we embarked towards were years old, thanks to the time it takes light to travel to earth, and back when you embarked, we didn't have the tech to definitively say the planet was habitable. For all you know, this journey will have been for nothing, and your bloodline will die trying to live on a hostile planet where the atmosphere is poisonous. Or worse, the planet is already inhabited... In any case, even if it was habitable, then you are still faced with the prospect of being the first settlers on an alien planet. Order on the ship is kept by the billionaires VIP passengers and their descendants. The ruling elite. They don't have to work, and get to enjoy a life of moderate luxury. You are a slave to them and their will. Any disobedience is harshly punished, and the punishment also applies to your descendants. But as much as you want to rebel, you know it is impossible. Because only they can control the ships systems. Any hint of rebellion is crushed with brutal efficiency, using gas that renders people unconscious, or at worst, sealing the section of the ship off and being drained of oxygen, and your bodies used to feed the surviving population of the ship. And the rest of the people will be forced to reproduce even more, to maintain the workforce. ...sorry, weird errant thought. But enjoy the mental image! I personally quite enjoy dystopian sci-fi stories. Maybe you do too. As long as they stay in the realm of stories, at least.
nothing says fun like sitting in a bubble on a barren planet watching decades old movies, hoping your life support doesn't break because the replacement parts were made in a factory that doesn't exist anymore. Life on another planet would suck unless its another earth. The closest one still too far to get to.
Yup I’ll take a quick out over a life time of that any day
Don't worry they have luxury doomsday bunkers in New Zealand
You know its bad when there is just a MASSIVE push saying "its not too late" and "stop the doomerism, its not that bad" by the same pro business news outlets that were trying to dismiss climate change just a few years ago. Its almost as if they are in damage control mode and cant deny it anymore.
Ouch you hit a nerve with some pussy neoliberal stock traders. Doomerism is absolutely *vital* right now. We need kids to get a real picture of how fucked things are and are going to be. If they don't have a realistic goal, they'll fail for lack of trying. Shit the same even goes for the rest of us old farts. If people don't wake the fuck up right now, they're not going to get a chance to. So you're *spot on* sir - they are in damage control mode attempting to draw out the era of excess profit.
Its literally the narcissist's motto: It didnt happen if it did, it wasnt that bad And if it was, that's not a big deal. < -- we are here And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I meant it, you deserved it The fact I am seeing articles on major sites saying "it doesn't matter if climate change is happening, it wont kill humanity" is more scary than 100 wild fires in canada.
Same thing happened here. You only have to look at how a government treats whistle blowers to know if they've sold their morals. The East Timor spying scandal and the way Witness K was treated shows how the Australian Government operates, regardless of which party leads.
Say what?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ag-gag#United_States
According to that page every single bill that was passed was struck down as unconstitutional.
The Arkansas bill is appears to still be active. Based on that page the others appear to have been struck down by their respective state supreme courts or lower.
The top court has been taken over by corrupt GOP aligned judges. If they want to reinterpret the constitution to make these laws stick, they can. Right now they don't seem to want to, so its more like pantomime for the base.
You gotta be kidding us... They lobbied that its ok to abuse animals.on farms and no one is allowed to report it. What the actual fuck whoever agreed to be paid to lobby fir that should be: 1. Ashamed of themselves. 2. Be legally allowed to be hunted for sport.
I mean, the previous Australian government kinda did the same thing... but about humans kept in offshore detention
And also did the same thing too about animals. https://voiceless.org.au/hot-topics/ag-gag/
Interesting we have lawmakers that will Aid in the cover-up of illegality. The fact that any law would be even written to hide the fact that there is gas being spewed is criminal.
USA is crazy like that. It's amazing it's even possible without public revolt.
In the USA the laws were removed. They still exist in Australia. https://voiceless.org.au/hot-topics/ag-gag/
People are too busy hunting each other down for their political views to care for such things
USA is where Corporations make the laws…. Duh!
They've been all struck down. Stop fear mongering predditor
Hi Mr Murdock, may I have a job please ?
I mean, fuck oil and all but all thermal Imaging does is show that there is hot gas. It doesn't show what the gas is made up of, nor does it really indicate how much is vented. It's a great tool for the industry if they want to avoid emitting gas, it's a poor tool to prove wrongdoing. My guess is this will be handwaved away and denied rather than forbidden.
Hey if you can’t report, there is no problem
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ask who’s supplying the gas to tell them to fix it.
ahhahahahahaha ahahahhaah ahhahahaa Fossil fuel companies pay for restoration? Unfortunately they will never do that.
Every oil exec has a home. You can make their lives miserable with protest if you wish.
I do not recommend throwing mint seeds in their lawn.
I definitely do not recommend bird seed, scattering seeds from invasive plants, buying crickets and cockroaches for cheap on Amazon, paint thinner, bottles of: milk, fish and dirt to throw into bushes, paintball guns with bright paint, copper nails in trees, shattered glass and nails, and salt as it’s about $2 a kilo and won’t let anything grow.
>milk fish You monster
They'll just nove to one of their other 50 luxury properties
Or put a ridiculous perimeter fence with security. Money is both nothing and everything to them.
fuck that, much easier to get corrupt cops to arrest these fuckers. or like the loggers in Australia make it illegal to protest, ohh shit i mean much like the fossil fuel companies already made it illegal to protest.
Don't forget the fake protesters that are there purely to piss people off and turn them against the idea of doing anything about it.
They tried that not long ago at the Woodside CEOs house. Resulted in 3 out of 4 arrested, and the premier wanting to know why ABC was there. https://www.watoday.com.au/politics/western-australia/wa-premier-demands-answers-from-abc-bosses-over-protest-at-woodside-ceo-s-home-20230802-p5dt9a.html
Didn't you see the latest hysteria in the news when people tried that?
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somebody get this guy on a list, I'm not sure what list exactly but I'm sure one exists.
Christmas card?
Aight. Adding him to my list of people I can rely on to do the right thing.
yeah if you ever need a child intimidated you know who to call
That's how you get FriendlyJordy'd.
There are countless sites in the US leaking methane. Nothing is done about them because the companies which owned the sites have gone bankrupt.
I actually just attended a conference where an expert talked about remote sensing capabilities for methane Main takeaway was that it's very difficult to estimate the volume of methane emissions from satellites, but it seems like that the national estimation tool may be underestimating the emissions of some sites by a decent margin However the sensing tech has a fair few limitations including not being able to see through water vapour (clouds, off shore ops) and the current satellites can only provide about 20 seconds of data per day
https://www.methanesat.org/team/
Geo orbit but only planned for coverage over the Americas: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/geocarb-a-new-view-of-carbon-over-the-americas
Yeah theres a fair few upcoming projects. However in order to get a decent estimation it seems like ground truthing still needs to be done and looked fairly complicated These thermal cameras are only really good for leak detection. They dont give much info on the total size of a plume
Leak detection is exactly what the US needs. All those old unclosed oil bore holes are emitting a shitton of methane. Most of those are undocumented. Up until now, no profit orgs were driving around with mobile methane detectors to try and pinpoint them. I hope the new satalites can help with that
Protip: to check if the leak has been fix, fly a drone with a lighter there
[youtube](https://youtu.be/V2YXagkG43w) this is a great Australian YouTuber, in this video he explains in his typical Aussie style that the gas runaways from the mines are more damaging to the environment than all the cars in Australia combined. Also as those emissions are concentrated in few specific locations, they could be addressed much more efficiently than a wide spread emission channel like automobiles. Of course Australia is a special case, big land with relatively fewer cars, in US and Europe the math would be different. But still pretty sobering.
Could do both not a “either or” type situation every little bit helps
Whoa- are you suggesting we don’t approach an issue from polar opposite stances?
I agree, but one should be a higher priority than the other.
My responsibilities at work are detecting GHG in the oil and gas industry. The amount of hydrocarbon I've seen emitted into the atmosphere is mind numbing. The Oil majors are well aware of this and will stop at nothing to keep it under wraps.
Killing the planet to make their stock go up. Great
These people have names and addresses, yet we're just watching them fuck it up for us all
But the shareholders dur dur
They don't care because they'll be dead before the repercussions will affect them. Might as well be rich and enjoy life now from their perspectives.
Don't worry, eventually they will realize they need planet earth livable for the stock to go up.
Unfortunately, they'll isolate themselves in less affected areas and die before suffering any of the consequences.
It's not about the money. It's about cremating the creatures that dwell in the hydrocarbons to the FULLEST EXTENT POSSIBLE. FOREVER. Just another war. Like the war against wildlife, but way more secret.
Would you mind directing me to some of your industry’s publications, or list a few companies I can research. I was in the oil and gas industry on the seismic monitoring side of things, but I would love to see more of this side of things.
There probably aren’t any open publications, but go to literally any site with a flare stack, pit, or vent system
It’s pretty strictly regulated in the UK, flaring and cold flaring incurs a heavy tax and is a fiscal matter. Metering it is legally vital and failing to do so would risk your license to operate. I’m surprised the australians allow this.
Sooooooooo how do we start knowing more a kit this
Turkmenistan is venting massive quantities natural gas straight into the atmosphere. > The western fossil fuel field in Turkmenistan, on the Caspian coast, leaked 2.6m tonnes of methane in 2022. The eastern field emitted 1.8m tonnes. Together, the two fields released emissions equivalent to 366m tonnes of CO2, more than the UK’s annual emissions, which are the 17th-biggest in the world. > Flaring is used to burn unwanted gas, putting CO2 into the atmosphere, but is easy to detect and has been increasingly frowned upon in recent years. > Venting simply releases the invisible methane into the air unburned, which, until recent developments in satellite technology, had been hard to detect. Methane traps 80 times more heat than CO2 over 20 years, making venting far worse for the climate. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/09/mind-boggling-methane-emissions-from-turkmenistan-revealed
The unwanted gas part has always confused me. Why not just put it in a tank? Isn’t it worth money? It seems like pure malice to just burn or vent it when someone could have used that gas.
So from an industry personnel standpoint this flaring/venting is nothing new. When you drill a well oftentimes you have a liquid gas mixture (natural gas and oil). Since these are handled and processed very differently you separate them. Depending on the quality of each product you could be doing some refining at the wellhead or it could be sent to a refinery to sell at market. So as a hypothetical let's say you dig a oil well because you've done the geotech survey and have a good idea where the oil is. Now as you're pulling it out you've got 90% oil which sells at a high price and You've got contracts set up to either ship it via pipeline or truck to be processed. But you can't ship it with the natural gas so you split them but what do you do with the natural gas. It's high pressure at this point, but not high enough to actually be considered CNG or LNG that you could send via truck. So if you don't have a pipeline nearby, you are looking at spending substantial capital to pay a pipeline that might take a year or two to build for a well that you aren't even sure is going to last 6 months until it's empty. That cost on a highly liquid well is usually well above what you would actually make from the natural gas selling at current market prices. Venting was the old practice but it's not used as much in modern countries because the environmental cost is so high and regulations are trying to limit exactly that. So they flare it instead. In other countries where they don't give a fuck then venting is still the norm. Tl;Dr Profit from natural gas on an oil well is less than the infrastructure to transport the natural gas.
I find it fustrating, when people compare EV vs. ICE, they almost take PV installation CO2 emissions, but for ICE they only calculate fuel burning emissions and forget all needed to produce said fuel :(
WTF are these comments? This doesn't have anything to do with the original post. And a bunch bots replying? FUCKERY! INDEED!
I find a clear thread. Post about Australian emissions to comment that Turkmenistan is doing similar with their wells and a comment lamenting we don't track such emissions as being part of the gas supply chain the way we do with renewables and their co2 outputs. Edit to add: u/D-moran seems like an argumentative Canadian and u/DavidKarlas is commenting in some Slavic looking language on most of his posts. My conclusion is u/YoreWelcome is actually an AI designed to sow disinformation about who is a bot.
Not that I agree with your conclusion, but it does remind me of a Smarter Every Day video on political bots in social media. Most often they aren't there to provide an agenda or take one side or the other but just to cause distrust and narrow an argument from being broad and nuanced to specific and unproductive. So regardless of bot or not, the conclusion is the same.
That's not true though. Most in-depth reports consider the entire lifecycle cost. EVs still come out ahead (but obviously not as much as when you're only looking at the post-construction emissions). Though of course, personal vehicles in general - regardless of propulsion type - are extremely inefficient compared to buses and trains.
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It's like watching mannequins have sex. They are going through the motions, but they aren't producing anything of value. To be clear, I am referring to the bot comments and replies in this thread. I agree with you, the comment you replied to was vaguely related topically, but not relevant to the article about methane emissions from The Guardian.
How the fuck is it not?
It is evidently very relevant.
Here in NZ pre-covid we used to be able to get E85 at one gas chain which from the ethanol was made from waste byproducts of the dairy industry. You can still get E10 from there but it hasn't come back since Covid unless you buy it in drums 😭 I'd run all my cars on it as it's not as energy intensive as the ethanol made from corn or sugar cane like other countries.
In France we have E85 made from fermenting sugar beets, and it used to be a great economical alternative to fuel but now about 70% of the price you pay for it is tax, which makes it barely more economical than normal E10 :(
I would personally pay the premium if I could get it for A. It being renewable and B. It's awesome octane advantages.
That’s why I like hydrogen ICE. You get sufficient power generated from the engine but from a cleaner fuel.
yet somehow forget the inherent inefficiency of conversion to free hydrogen, the storage thereof, and the infrastructure to do so. Its like ignoring living on a 50th story building without taking into account pumping water to service your toilettes, much less the elevators to get you in and out of the building etc etc.
You get sufficient power generated in an electric motor, which can be generated via solar wind and hydro. Much better
You realise hydrogen had to be created right? Either from renewable energy or fossil fuels. Hydrogen is essentially an energy battery. It just has far more losses than batteries -I build mining trucks that run on hydrogen, great for situations in the middle of nowhere where power infrastructure is limited to charge batteries. But hydrogen is overall terrible for the average car.
Their whole point is to include all the emissions required in the fuel pipeline.. hydrogen is effectively the same as electric, just using hydrogen as the 'battery' instead of lithium.
Except with Lithium the loss in energy is a few %, with methane you lose over half of the energy used to create it.
Hydrogen often still comes from fossil fuel sources as a byproduct.
Sure, then we need to factor in the energy/resources used to extract it, transport it, store it, and then the loss in converting it into electricity. It's still a monumental loss of energy no matter how you spin it.
Wait wait wait. I thought cows where to blame for methane /s
Neat. So we're of assholes than I had thought.
Let's see how Bluey handles this one...
This episode of Bluey is called “Bribery”
and the sequels: "Profits", "Shareholders", and "Lobbyists"
Dad: "Aw no, *no*, I'm not playing these games. Everytime we do, you guys ruin the world while twirling your evil moustaches. Not happening!" *Ends up playing game anyway*
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Jerry Lee to the rescue
Have a family meeting to check and regulate Bandit's fluffy meter level.
*Vegan nutroast* *Like you don't bake the odd brownie*
I remember when they did this in Texas last year. Pretty wild stuff https://apnews.com/article/science-texas-trending-news-climate-and-environment-0eb6880f7c4532a845155a3bd44c2e4b
Then you'll love the images/ cool presentation NYT did https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/13/reader-center/methane-infrared-camera.html
Wow…detect this everywhere n shut it down… what % contribution is all this to thermal/air pollution?
Well if history has taught me anything, it's that the parties responsible for this will take this information seriously and take swift action to fix the leaks.
...I love the energy company's immediate response. It isn't "Wow, we'll have to look into that" or "No, we weren't aware" or "We're not sure of how this works, but it's worth investigating..." No, it's "That's wrong, it's unsound science (even though we have just been introduced to this new information" and leave us alone while we count our money."
Did not read the article but you can bet your ass this will end up in another gas price hike for Australians some way or another.
I read it. I don't trust their research when they can't even spell "Condamine" correctly.
I mean you know you’re in for a flimsy read when it kicks off with a reference to the Predator film in order to relate thermal imaging to the reader (and putting the location of Predator in the wrong place at that). This and your comment are both down to the journalist and yahoo news though. The measurements from ACF and their reporting of what’s going on can still be perfectly sound, and this sort of thing is a well known issue with fossil fuel plants (and gas transportation) when they aren’t run/maintained properly, ie. it’s an issue worth reporting on. If you want better reporting, don’t read Yahoo news.
My bet is on bullet town.
The article says the producers question the science. I propose an easy fix. A flame at the end of a pole, up against the end of the pipe
These fucking cunts not flaring it to hide the emissions should be strung up and the companies involved should have the entirety of their wealth confiscated.
Weird that the climate change we see is faster than expected compared to our emmisions... This is crime against humanity. Shouldnt be hard to identify the people responsible
32 sites is NOTHING compared to the thousands of sites throughout Australia. Probably drove past double that on my way to the site I'm working at today. So I'd say only 32 out of those surveyed isn't bad at all, and now they know what to fix. Actually was involved in a project setting up similar cameras for one of the largest Natural Gas players as they wanted to make sure they're conforming with Canadian standards. Glad to see them using this tech elsewhere in the world.
Don't tell the Americans.
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Oil and gas wells drilled after 9/18/2015 in the US are required by law to be inspected at least semi-annually for leaks using a thermal imaging camera or equivalent. Soon, that will go up to quarterly as new rulemaking comes into effect. Sites are also required to perform weekly AVO inspections (audio, visual, olfactory) to look for leaks. Detected leaks are required to be repaired and reinspected to confirm the repair. All of these things go on an annual report that is submitted to the EPA.
You mean the thing we've known about and have been regulating into the ground for several years? https://apnews.com/article/pipeline-methane-leaks-climate-change-phmsa-e3c9e06ad83975673996491e2db880ba#:~:text=If%20finalized%2C%20the%20rules%20would,pipelines%20by%20up%20to%2055%25. The whole reason they have flares in the first place even way back when is to reduce emissions.
The USA already has covered this with regulation. With that said, why are you even bringing up the USA when it has nothing to do with the topic? You also don’t really have to “tell us”, we don’t care about your country like you care about ours.
I blame the schools. Mainly because they are improperly funded.
Schools don't fund themselves. So how can you blame schools?
I am experienced with gas leaks down under
>You've probably seen thermal imaging cameras used in the Predator movie series to locate people hidden in the South American jungle. Predator was set in central America who the fuck is this clown
>"There is no evidence that the ACF’s work is based on sound science How isn't their method sound science? They literally pointed a thermal camera and saw the gas seeping.
Let's just nuke the Aussies, the roos, the 70 million rabbits they have, mamba snakes, alligators, black widows, samba snakes, Caymans, white sharks, Dory, box jelly fish, Murdoch, Nemo, blue ringer octopus, E fucking MU ... Nothing bad but everything good will come through the complete and utter destruction of the colony of "Nouvelle Hollande,' we also would like to add New Holland PA IL OH Saint Petersburg to the target list. /Cordially signed, the NZ delegation.
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Same ahahah second I saw it was from a sheep shagger I just laughed
Aye, your mum was sleeping over this a way last nite
Ffs so that’s where she went
The hard part for you was translating that from all the "baa"s /sincerely, the Australian delegation
make sure to call all the cuzzies back home from perth first aye.
Why? Less cuzzies over 'ere, more a sheep for me.
Thermal imaging doesn't make sense - implying that all thermal sources are methane is erroneous unless they can 100% identify that said exhaust vent is from a methane source. NASA has a methane satellite methane monitoring system already set up with actual scientific basis with the [NASA Carbon Monitoring System](https://carbon.nasa.gov/cms/) that is [actually worth looking at](https://disc.gsfc.nasa.gov/datasets/GFEI_CH4_1/summary), and not this pseudoscience nonsense from the yahoo article.
They say thermal imaging, but it is best to use the term optical gas imaging. The cameras I’ve used (FLIR GF series) for methane have lens filters which allow only a narrow band of infrared light to get into the sensor which is cooled to below -300 F. Methane absorbs light in that IR band so if there is about a 2 C difference between ambient conditions and the methane, it can be visualized. The technology is pretty neat and quite sound; OGI is way more sensitive than the high stand-off remote sensing employed by nasa satellites.
Yeah I would've thought that you need spectroscopy or something
It's alarming to think about the potential environmental and health impacts of these emissions. It's a stark reminder that we must prioritize sustainable practices to safeguard our environment for future generations.
Why don't they capture the gasses and used it as a burning fuel.
Maybe it's not enough to be worthwhile, but why aren't they at least flaring the methane?
Because they simple do not care. "Some else's job".
Because flaring is frowned upon and venting is, or has been, harder to detect.
Flaring is literally better for the environment than venting. Methane is 25x more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. I can’t believe some people frown upon flaring.
Flaring is admitting there's an issue, admitting that there's any venting happening in the first place. Hence, no flaring. Because people might not notice an invisible gas otherwise.
Flaring is still bad for the climste, that's why they frown on it. It would be better to not flare or vent.
From the article: > You've probably seen thermal imaging cameras used in the Predator movie series to locate people hidden in the South American jungle. I have not because Predator takes place in *Central* America, not South America.
Mate, they didn't even look up how to spell a towns name (Condamine) correctly, they definitely aren't researching or fact checking anything else thoroughly.
Biggest emission coming from Clive Palmer.
How does one hide gas(es)? Asking for a friend.
Whoever smelt it, dealt it.
I am certainly not a greenie or a tree hugger. However, we should do better. Just because it's the right thing to do. Here in Oregon, daries don't let the cow out to pasture. They live indoors from cradle to grave. Coming from Wisconsin, it was unbelievable to me. We have plenty of grazing land, makes zero sense. After seeing it for myself, I understood the Happy Cow campaign from California.
I love the example image! It's literally a picture of a gas release pipe. What the hell were they expecting? Rainbows and unicorns?
>"There is no evidence that the ACF’s work is based on sound science, it has provided scant detail on its methodology and its results have not been replicated by regulators or qualified independent experts," a Santos spokesperson told Yahoo News Australia. That reminds me of so many online arguments I've read. Trollish.
Lol meanwhile in the US, EPA has decided that this tech is the best method, better than the previously approved EPA method.
What did you think gas vents were for?
I better use more paper straws
Everything rotting makes methane gas .... including natural forest floors
Only on reddit can we start a topic on leaking gas then devolve the discussion into abortion and gun rights
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It's the biggest coal exporter in the world I think? It's always been a massive fossil fuel generator.
Yeah sorry, that was me. Had a big barbeque yesterday and my stomac didn’t agree with it.
How the fuck is this real life. Guys…..we’re fucked
Just stop using derivatives like plastics etc to make the industry go broke. Stop using gas for anything
Just going to assume it’s farts and move on with my day.
it was a vegetarian cookout
Gas seen coming out of gas vent intended to vent excess gas? We can't allow that. /s I'm really not a fan of gas companies and would rather they be shutdown and replaced with better energy sources. But this article seems to be making something out of nothing. All it does is present some camera images detecting gas flowing from an outlet where it's expected to be, then they've raised some question about whether pipes are leaking... Clearly it's designed like this and this kind of infrastructure has been regulated approved and in place for decades. Maybe we can design a better system than a gas vent, maybe that's the point here, but creating a bunch of fear without getting measurements or analyzing how frequent or damaging this event is doesn't get results.
The point is they are not flaring the gas..
Just because there's a vent doesn't mean it is there to vent gas all day every day. You might want those for emergencies where you'd vent so that everything doesn't explode. But if you are venting all the time, you clearly didn't have a plan for more ecological processing of the gasses.
Did you even read the article at all? Methane is 20x than co2 for the environment and they’re not flaring it to hide the fact they’re releasing it cause a gas is invisible and fire isn’t. Congrats you are the perfect consumer
Don't tell the Republicans
Christ, there's no point in even trying to fight it. We're done for. Let's stop pretending we're not.
Its like throwing a deck chair of the titanic at this point.
Wtf.
Don’t tell the Ron DeSantis
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Aussie here. Literally never heard anyone here complain about the word...