Russia took Crimea with relatively little death.
Let's be realistic, if Russia takes over Ukraine without a fight, people will lose liberty and self determination but there will be less death.
That's why surrendering exist.
I'm not advocating Ukraine to surrender.
Yeah, but there’s no way to know other than to have every inch of it live broadcast throughout the world. Otherwise, you’ll never know if they’re just gonna start randomly firing, raping, and executing civilians like they have done multiple times. (Mass graves, rape, stollen children, killing of unarmed civilians)
There were Westerner journalists everywhere in Crimea for the 8 years before the current war.
The bad thing Russian did is quite well documented. It's in all equivalent, much better then what's going on now.
Rape and suffering is what comes with real war usually or what comes just after a bad war
Again, I'm not advocating for any country to surrender.
Every western country would have unmarked kidnap vans roaming around town looking to forcefully scoop up men to send them to a 4-5 week training course before they end up on the front line? If we had videos of these snatchings happening in the west they'd probably be bigger deals in the news. Instead hardly any of these hundreds of videos get airtime for us outside of Ukraine.
In any country you'd have people who don't want to fight in a war. That's natural. But a post-Soviet government like Ukraine's doesnt enjoy the same confidence from their citizens as a western country would. Look at all these quotes about men fearful of lack of training or poor commanders, or being grabbed by conscription officers who were previously taking bribes to give out deferments just to end up in a trench as cannon fodder. That all affects recruitment. Ukraine is not a western country so saying "we'd have this exact situation in the west" ignores the specific problems Ukraine faces.
It's true, but you forgot that we fight a bloody war for almost 3 years. Initially, there were literally lines to the conscription offices.
And about the western societies - if we fail, you are about to discover very unpleasant truth. It is not very hard to avoid mistakes when you are at war with a few thousands untrained Bedouines with AK and old RPGs. And when you face russians, you will have to pay a heavy price in blood
I want Tomi Lahren, Amala Ekpunobi and Lauren Chen in my bed for a hot conservative waifu 4way. Doesn't mean it's reasonable and I know it ain't happening.
Not saying you wouldn’t but it’s easier to say when you very likely will *never* be in that situation.
I’m convinced it’s impossible to say one way or the other when your life is so far removed from ever facing that. You’ll continue to live your life with almost certainty you’ll never face a decision like that.
*Most. I am not completely sure about myself but I have been through conscription and like to think that I could handle the real deal. I suppose its the same with most others in a similar position.
By the time when Europe and the US ripe to give Ukraine all weapons there will not be men able or willing to use them. This is the cost of lingering. If they gave everything in the first year of war when tens of thousands of volunteers were still alive we wouldn't end-up in this situation.
I hope that European nations will remember this when the US elections roll around. Trump has already said that he will cease support for Ukraine if he is elected. I hope Europe can step up their support for Ukraine.
Fortunately Biden just signed a deal that would fund Ukraine during Trump's possible term.
The scarier thing is if Trump gives Taiwan to China.
Essentially I expect trump to sell out the US in whatever way he can.
No. Biden enacted an executive order which funds Ukraine during then next presidential cycle. This can be deleted by a Trump Executive order which he’s already indicated he will do on day 1. I don’t mean to be a downer, but we all should understand the full risks of letting Trump anywhere near the White House, and donate and volunteer accordingly to ensure that does not happen.
I’ve been donating hundreds of dollars every month to various Ukrainian orgs, but as the US election comes closer I will temporarily redirect those funds into US political campaigns as they will have a larger impact by directing us fiscal policy by placing the right people in office.
> No. Biden enacted an executive order which funds Ukraine during then next presidential cycle.
This can't be stressed enough. Even if he could put through legislation, which he can't because congress is republican controlled, Trump's control of the supreme court means that he'll always be able to nullify or ignore absolutely anything that Bidens or even the current Republican congress set up. Executive orders are just one stroke of the pen.
I used to think that allying with the still patriotic republicans would have some benefit. Now they seem to be completely outflanked. They all just need to understand that in this election only votes for Biden and democrats in congress can save us from abandoning the Ukrainians in a way quite likely to cause WWIII.
This is what shits me, they’re appointed for life; why not just turn your back on him.
The whole idea is that they can be impartial knowing their jobs are never at risk.
Read this [great comment yesterday](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/1dhbfh1/comment/l8vrlbt/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) .. haven't been through yet to check how true everything it says is (report back if you try *please*) but just the general stuff you know is true from beforehand makes it totally scary. One huge mass of corruption.
Does political funding actually help during election time? Trump spent I think half what Clinton spent in 2016 and still won. I'm not sure if money would be enough to flip any houses in TX into voting blue.
It might have a bigger impact during the primary process, but I think in the main election it no longer matters after a certain scale.
Donating during primary process will help your candidate of choices viability, but donating to the larger dnc during the lead up to the actual election will help all dnc candidates. It can be frustrating as hell to donate to a candidate who isn’t doing well- I personally wouldn’t donate to Betos earlier campaign because he was running on gun control in Texas for example- but without funding from large and small donors the party is limited to what it can achieve.
When I look back on elections I like to feel like I’ve done what I could to help out, meager as the contributions may be.
Plus Biden is also fighting in two fronts.
He's not only dealing with the MAGA crowd but even the rabid leftists who accuse him of committing genocide in Gaza and tbat could chip off some millennial and gen z votes from him.
It's funny, because that's exactly what the Bible says that all of the false Christians will do, in the face of apocalypse.
They are fulfilling the prophecy by becoming the Satan worshiping fools that they claim to be fighting against.
All bets are off should Donald return. Our government is literally held together by gentlemen's agreements the founders thought would keep things in check. This is what American Authoritarianism will be
It's not so much a general European problem as it's a split between the east/north countries (most of which already give more per capita and/or as a % of gdp than the US) and the west/south (who allocate much less).
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Then we have Hungary, for example, who are pro-Russian and have been unilaterally stopping EU-level aid to Ukraine with vetos.
A lot of right wing parties are licking putins dick. And they just had a big win in the eu elections.
People don't care, they like to vote for the right cause only them arent afraid to speak about the immigration problem. Which a lot of people care about. I think they don't see russia as a danger to them
I wonder what they would say the day Russia is before *their* door. I hope that never happens but damn i actually really wanna know now lol
There is currently an ongoing investigation. A lot of right wing organizations throughout Europe could be linked to Russian intelligence activities. They receive financial support and the bot/trollfarm support and in return destabilize the countries and if they get to power actively take Russian positions.
So far it has been proven for Catalonia and it showed how they operate and basically all the right wing parties are in some degree compromised.
It's definitely a situation where the longer the wait and later the weapons the less their effectiveness and the higher the cost for the same result, we did this mistake in 2023 we have to avoid doing this in 2024 (some positive signs on this direction but not enough yet)
Ukraine is *still* blocked from using Western weapons on the bases inside Russia that attacks are being used to attack them. There's a bit push from r/ActionforUkraine to try to get that fixed. Please do come and join in.
There was a change but only in a limited area around Kharkiv. They can't attack most of the important military targets that Russia fires rockets and sends planes from. See [this post about getting permission from ActionforUkraine](https://new.reddit.com/r/ActionForUkraine/comments/1dg2y2e/lift_restrictions_on_ukraine_using_us_weapons_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
US literally gave all weapons possible. We had to manufacturer more weapons and ammo just to give dude. Regardless of how many weapons they got, this wouldn’t have changed. People in Ukraine were fleeing as soon as possible
I really wish they were given ATACMS and immediately allowed to strike over the Russian border. The amount of Russian offenses that could have been stopped and lives saved would have been tremendous.
There aren't many left. At least 5-8 million of them left for safer countries. Ukraine had a population of 38M in 2022. So unless you're gonna somehow call back 20% of your population, it isn't happening.
The reason nations don't conscribe woman is because they need to bear kids after the war
When face with existential threat countries don't have time for things like rights and equality, only practicality
I don't think people appreciate that the amount of people that already died from this war alone dwarfs every death from other natural disasters since the war started combined
Assuming that polygamy will not become common place after the war, I doubt that all this woman will bear children.
If men and women have the same lethality in war it would even be beneficial to draft women, since the male/female quota is too low after the war.
> The reason nations don't conscribe woman is because they need to bear kids after the war
The most common point that doesn't make any sense. And I am not talking about "who will be the father if only women are alive". By that logic:
1) Women that can have children should be forced to do it(ofc in reality they shouldn't be)
2) Women that are physically not able to bear children should be drafted.
3) Women that don't plan on having a family should be drafted.
4) Women should not be able to leave the country.
Especially the last one, because now they freely leave the country whenever they want and if the situation becomes worse the more will leave.
And I'm not saying it should work this way, it should NEVER be like this. I just want to say that all this "women are more important for demographics" shit doesn't make sense and is only used by hypocrites.
If Russia wins the war and destroys Ukraine (and let’s hope that doesn’t happen), then Ukraine ceases to exist as a unique society anyway, so having more kids to keep the country going is a moot point.
Every Ukrainian that cared more about that than their own lives already died on the battlefield
See how fast the soldier mutiny if you send their mother, wives or daughter to the frontline
>See how fast the soldier mutiny if you send their mother, wives or daughter to the frontline
Probably similar numbers to when their fathers, husbands, and sons were sent.
And take care of the already existing children. I live in Poland and saw the initial waves of refugees with my own eyes: almost every woman had children with them. Same for the people in my family who took in refugees: women with small children and grandparents with teenagers (the parents had stayed behind to work).
But a state that does not respect rights and equality is not worth fighting for anyway.
Drafts are state-sponsored kidnapping and we should condemn the practice as fully as we reject chattel slavery.
This is the problem. Every country in existential threat starts prioritizing some rights over the others, and ceased to a degree from being a democracy. It happened in ww1, and in WW2. Most western population don’t understand that today because they weren’t in any existential threat since WW2. Would we really want to save our country at every cost? Cause this is what it takes, to become some sort of a monster yourself, prioritizing some people over the others etc..
This sucks. But yea, as someone else posted, this would be the same situation if the the issue was in the Western world as well. The main reason why we’re freaking out nowadays is because we haven’t seen a scale of war this size in a while, so for a long time we have been living in peace, and now seeing this and being asked to conscript is a huge shock to everyone. I do not support the war.
God forbid you don’t want to be sent to die in a trench for a war that is barely progressing, at gunpoint by your own countrymen.
I support Ukraine and condemn Russia, but from an individualist perspective, it’s understandable why people don’t want to just throw their lives away like this— especially if coerced, threatened and forced to do so by the people around them.
Imagine you live in a shitty corrupt Eastern European country where $10k could be your yearly salary. It's your job to kidnap people off the streets to go to the front after 2 days training. Someone offers you a years salary just to look the other way and maybe even help them get across the border. It's an offer a lot harder to turn down than you think.
Too bad we don't see the corruption being documented on tv or the internet. There's corruption all around us and it needs to be rooted out asap to break this shit merry go round we're on.
Wow, I see no comments here like "you kremlin bot" and "це ж все іпсо". (People from tjournal_refugees are really mad)
Please tell me why the Ukrainian Armed Forces hold out for 2.5 years against a superior enemy if everything is so bad?
I'm interested in your opinion.
I hope I didn't offend you in any way.
Paradoxically even the most disorganized army is still an army. Spending lives of soldiers for no reason it still can hold.
Standing in defense is way easier on the army than invasion. American weapon is superior to russian.
And the most important reason: Ukrainians are brave. They truly are. Many will die defending their land after knowing what happened in Bucha and Mariupol.
This is mostly Europes fault for over relying on the US military.
Non US nato countries have had over 10 years (minimum since Crimea) to begin beefing up their militaries.
No, instead they make fun of the US military industrial complex as reasons why Americans dont have free healthcare\college education.
I’m an American and love making the whole “$country is about to find out why we don’t have free healthcare” but you are right. NATO countries in Europe have had time to prepare and didn’t do much.
At the same time, America loves being the world big brother so it falls on all the counties involved. If America took a step back you would have seen Europe maybe prepare better
Which is a bullshit argument anyway since the US spends more on healthcare than any other country that has universal healthcare….our system is actually more expensive
Further, the economic benefits of a more educated workforce pays for itself.
The issue isn't financial so much as it is corruption. We already put most of our taxes into healthcare, even the DoD's biggest expense is healthcare. The issue is the relationship between healthcare and insurance companies driving cost multiple times over our other western counterparts.
If I'm going to build the fence I don't mind if my neighbor next to me (canada) gets some benefit from that.
I do mind if my neighbor down the street (europe) expects me to build a fence for them too.
Even more apt, your neighbor's (ukraine) shed (crimea) is burning down, and you dont even test your garden hose for functionality (military) and complain about the high home insurance premiums (NATO), while making fun of your neighbor down the street (US) for installing and maintaining a state-of-the-art fire suppression system.
Don’t forget Ukraine also got bullied into giving away their fire extinguishers (nukes) and was prohibited from buying insurance (joining NATO) in exchange for a promise from a drunk with a flamethrower (Russia) not to light Ukraine’s house on fire.
In Europe’s defense, it was hard to pay attention to Putin’s constant Irredentist speeches for the last ten years when they were so busy making spicy anti-trump parade floats.
That's just not true there were analysts on both sides who discussed war as a possibility it's just that many people wanted there to not be a war so badly they simply believed their own bullshit. When Putin started massing up Russian troops many people said it was inevitable including myself but we were told by others that it was still impossible.
Remind me again, how is NATO countries beefing up their militaries going to help a non NATO country that needs soldiers?
If NATO, US or not, could send manpower without the risk of escalation, they would have done it long ago.
Now you might agree or not agree with said risk of escalation, but NATOs policy (including US) has been very clear from the start. When we were collecting supplies to send to UA we were not even allowed to send uniforms with recognisable camo patterns of NATO countries because of the risk that Russia could claim them as proof of NATO boots on the ground.
You mean morons? Because they did a full on invasion of Georgia before Crimea, and Crimea was a full on invasion too. Ukraine was not prepared/corrupted from the inside so there was not much fighting, but it was a physical assault.
There too many people profiting from this war at the expense of young men fighting and dying everyday. From corrupt officers, elected officials and even refugees.
If only there was another group to recruit from to bump up the numbers. Like a group of millions that have claimed to want equality for generations, and have claimed to be stronger and smarter and more capable than men for years on end. If only...
Isn't Ukraine winning the war ? Isn't the Abram tanks decimating those old t72 ? Everything i see on the new reporting sub is just Russians taking Ls. Why does no one want to fight while they are winning ?
Because news aren't really trustworthy. If every news article was true, Zekensky would be on the Red Square as the victor.
Instead, obvious thing will happen. Ukraine will lose, and once again Europe won't learn a lesson.
Forcing people to fight who don’t even go outside because they don’t want do fight is pointless they will use every change to backstab, try to surrender they will be more of a problem than useful
Not true, this comment is so ignorant of history it makes my brain hurt. Conscription has been around since war has been around and that is only because it works- right or wrong, good or bad
This is the thing about Europe. Just go a few hundred miles one way or another and you can simply walk across a border, unchecked. Who’s going to force people to fight if they really don’t want to? We imagine some magical army of volunteers like life was a WW2 movie but that just not the truth. It makes the case for a military comprised of professional soldiers and not conscripts or volunteers because it does require a degree of brainwashing to shoot someone, launch a missile or god forbid, a nuclear one. We can’t rely on normal people to do this.
The major difference between Europe and Russia is in Russia, there’s nowhere to run.
Russia has open borders. It's Ukraine that doesn't allow men 18 to 60 to leave since 2022. Russia doesn't grab people on the streets either, people actually volunteer to go.
So. your "major difference" is nonsense. There are plenty of places to run and there is no real reason to.
The major difference between Europe and Russia is Russia follows it's national interests, Europe does whatever Uncle Sam says. Europe didn't need NATO expansion into Ukraine, it was American idea. Europe got all the problems, US got LNG and weapons contracts. Classic. Just like Arab Spring, Libya, Syria.
Europe should start wising up.
This is what we, Ukrainians, do. They kidnap people of the streets and they couldn't care less about videos being recorded by multiple people because our propaganda is going to label it russian fake. Oh and they have passed a law forbidding to shoot those videos. Problem solved.
Most countries have a law that says if the country is attacked men of a certain age and fit to combat must be conscripted. Even Germany has a law like this. If Germany was attacked I might have to go to war. There still is an incredible number of Ukrainian men and women who do want to fight and of course there is also a significant number of people who do not want to fight. Your anger and cynicism should not be directed towards Ukrainian law though but to the people actually forcing people into this situation. I'll give you a hint: look further east.
i don't care about laws that are written by intellectuals and rich people, i value my life and my family's life more than anything else, these officers who are kidnapping people to throw them to their death are evil.
Its the state thats messed up. Absolute amateur day pressganging people off the streets. Not recruiting young people ect. A millon non combatant policemen lol?
Issue is Ukraine has been trying to maintain popular support which is a problem Putin doesnt have.
Sure your family is paramount but as one Ukranian said today on the BBC article about this, they rob, rape and kill families and are heading where these non combatantd are.
The MAJOR unspoken thing here is that the majority of roles arent combat, 3:1 would be a pessimistic ratio and the army cant send someone who refuses to go into combat like Russia does, you are just a liability. They cannot say that because then everyone would go that route. So this idea of "they ll send me to my death" is not true. Is it ever risk free? Hell no but if you say "I ll serve but I will not go into combat" they will have something for you to do.
I love the people who say “fuck the government I just care about my family and I’ll never fight for rich people” as if everyone did that countries like Russia would just take over and let people live completely peaceful lives just as they were before.
I imagine there’s going to be a lot of discontent post Ukrainian victory (whatever that looks like) between the men who volunteered and fought this war and the men who avoided conscription but are still living in a free Ukraine.
>i don't care about laws that are written by intellectuals and rich people, i value my life and my family's life more than anything else, these officers who are kidnapping people to throw them to their death are evil.
So how do you expect countries to defend themselves?
I think so too. But at the same time I think it does not take an intellectual to realize the dilemma that if no one is obliged to protect the country (and you and your family), the country will not last. The sovereignty and the people are constantly at risk. That's why most countries have a law like this. I can not say if it is just or not. It does not feel just to me. But does it feel just to me that some people are going to fight and some simply don't? I don't know. Is it just to just flee to the people who can not just leave because they are too old, too young or ill or poor? I don't know.
What I hate more than this law is the fact that it is needed. The true evil are the people who make other have and use such a law.
For Germany would have hard time drafting their population if they wont change the immigration policies and reliance on immigrant workers.
Sacrificing your own citizens while importing foreign workers is quite bad for moral.
No body want to die and war is brutal. But it is also not a strange thing in any war. In every country and every war, there are many people willing to fight and many don’t. You can’t say that Ukrainians don’t want to fight because some of them don’t. You can tell exactly same thing about Russian side. The difference is Ukrainian is much likely willing to defend their homeland.
Lmfao I received like 200 downvotes a few days ago for saying “it’s probably not a good idea for any males that fit in that conscription age to travel to the country”
Was that in a context of those males holding Ukrainian passports? Because if not those downvotes were pretty valid, no one would grab a foreigner for forced conscription.
Ukraine is not Russia. As a foreigner you will not be "snatched off the street and send to the frontlines" - unlike it is actually happening in Russia. Saying stuff like this is completely unfounded and you deserved the downvotes.
You wouldn't be a human if you don't want to die. But a lot of people would also want to defend their home and loved ones against the barbarian hordes.
No one wants to die.
Strange concept
That's why we have drafts. So that poor die so we don't have to lol
Yeah, but if the Russians take over - they are gonna die and horribly.
Russia took Crimea with relatively little death. Let's be realistic, if Russia takes over Ukraine without a fight, people will lose liberty and self determination but there will be less death. That's why surrendering exist. I'm not advocating Ukraine to surrender.
Yeah, but there’s no way to know other than to have every inch of it live broadcast throughout the world. Otherwise, you’ll never know if they’re just gonna start randomly firing, raping, and executing civilians like they have done multiple times. (Mass graves, rape, stollen children, killing of unarmed civilians)
There were Westerner journalists everywhere in Crimea for the 8 years before the current war. The bad thing Russian did is quite well documented. It's in all equivalent, much better then what's going on now. Rape and suffering is what comes with real war usually or what comes just after a bad war Again, I'm not advocating for any country to surrender.
Indeed, just look at the massacre of Crimea in 2014!
Tbf this would be everybody western countries in that situation.
Hey man we’ve got bone spurs over here
Every western country would have unmarked kidnap vans roaming around town looking to forcefully scoop up men to send them to a 4-5 week training course before they end up on the front line? If we had videos of these snatchings happening in the west they'd probably be bigger deals in the news. Instead hardly any of these hundreds of videos get airtime for us outside of Ukraine. In any country you'd have people who don't want to fight in a war. That's natural. But a post-Soviet government like Ukraine's doesnt enjoy the same confidence from their citizens as a western country would. Look at all these quotes about men fearful of lack of training or poor commanders, or being grabbed by conscription officers who were previously taking bribes to give out deferments just to end up in a trench as cannon fodder. That all affects recruitment. Ukraine is not a western country so saying "we'd have this exact situation in the west" ignores the specific problems Ukraine faces.
It's true, but you forgot that we fight a bloody war for almost 3 years. Initially, there were literally lines to the conscription offices. And about the western societies - if we fail, you are about to discover very unpleasant truth. It is not very hard to avoid mistakes when you are at war with a few thousands untrained Bedouines with AK and old RPGs. And when you face russians, you will have to pay a heavy price in blood
No, we won't.
It would be me. Fuck if I'm going to die because putin, the richest man on the planet, has a god complex.
You'd rather live in Putin's world than fight for freedom? That would be a dark place to live.
Written from the comfort of an American desk, most likely.
No I'd rather move somewhere else.
until there is no where left to run.
What? Putin wants to take over the world? When did you hear that?
To be fair, he probably does want to.
I want Tomi Lahren, Amala Ekpunobi and Lauren Chen in my bed for a hot conservative waifu 4way. Doesn't mean it's reasonable and I know it ain't happening.
I would rather live in Putins world than die on the front. Its such a false equivalency to say either Putin or Freedom.
Personally id rather die fighting than have Putin conquer my country.
Not saying you wouldn’t but it’s easier to say when you very likely will *never* be in that situation. I’m convinced it’s impossible to say one way or the other when your life is so far removed from ever facing that. You’ll continue to live your life with almost certainty you’ll never face a decision like that.
Same.
It ain't Putin's world and never will be. Russia would turn to glass before that happens.
Why aren’t you over there fighting then?
It’s also not his war. Why would you sign up to fight a war that doesn’t involve your country.
Damn so not only is he going to conquer Europe he’s going to conqueror the entire world? Putin truly is diabolical.
And the moon
Can fight willingly, or when he comes to your country.
It would be me if I ever faced conscription/slavery 🤷🏼♀️
*Most. I am not completely sure about myself but I have been through conscription and like to think that I could handle the real deal. I suppose its the same with most others in a similar position.
By the time when Europe and the US ripe to give Ukraine all weapons there will not be men able or willing to use them. This is the cost of lingering. If they gave everything in the first year of war when tens of thousands of volunteers were still alive we wouldn't end-up in this situation.
I hope that European nations will remember this when the US elections roll around. Trump has already said that he will cease support for Ukraine if he is elected. I hope Europe can step up their support for Ukraine.
Fortunately Biden just signed a deal that would fund Ukraine during Trump's possible term. The scarier thing is if Trump gives Taiwan to China. Essentially I expect trump to sell out the US in whatever way he can.
No. Biden enacted an executive order which funds Ukraine during then next presidential cycle. This can be deleted by a Trump Executive order which he’s already indicated he will do on day 1. I don’t mean to be a downer, but we all should understand the full risks of letting Trump anywhere near the White House, and donate and volunteer accordingly to ensure that does not happen. I’ve been donating hundreds of dollars every month to various Ukrainian orgs, but as the US election comes closer I will temporarily redirect those funds into US political campaigns as they will have a larger impact by directing us fiscal policy by placing the right people in office.
> No. Biden enacted an executive order which funds Ukraine during then next presidential cycle. This can't be stressed enough. Even if he could put through legislation, which he can't because congress is republican controlled, Trump's control of the supreme court means that he'll always be able to nullify or ignore absolutely anything that Bidens or even the current Republican congress set up. Executive orders are just one stroke of the pen. I used to think that allying with the still patriotic republicans would have some benefit. Now they seem to be completely outflanked. They all just need to understand that in this election only votes for Biden and democrats in congress can save us from abandoning the Ukrainians in a way quite likely to cause WWIII.
This is what shits me, they’re appointed for life; why not just turn your back on him. The whole idea is that they can be impartial knowing their jobs are never at risk.
Because they make more money through gifts and favors, than from the job itself... Complete corruption.
And lots of them are blackmailed even
Read this [great comment yesterday](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/1dhbfh1/comment/l8vrlbt/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) .. haven't been through yet to check how true everything it says is (report back if you try *please*) but just the general stuff you know is true from beforehand makes it totally scary. One huge mass of corruption.
How would it be possible to clean that out?
Does political funding actually help during election time? Trump spent I think half what Clinton spent in 2016 and still won. I'm not sure if money would be enough to flip any houses in TX into voting blue. It might have a bigger impact during the primary process, but I think in the main election it no longer matters after a certain scale.
Donating during primary process will help your candidate of choices viability, but donating to the larger dnc during the lead up to the actual election will help all dnc candidates. It can be frustrating as hell to donate to a candidate who isn’t doing well- I personally wouldn’t donate to Betos earlier campaign because he was running on gun control in Texas for example- but without funding from large and small donors the party is limited to what it can achieve. When I look back on elections I like to feel like I’ve done what I could to help out, meager as the contributions may be.
I'm dreading the election.
[удалено]
Makes absolutely zero difference to Trumpers, they are blindly devoted to him no matter what the circumstances
Plus Biden is also fighting in two fronts. He's not only dealing with the MAGA crowd but even the rabid leftists who accuse him of committing genocide in Gaza and tbat could chip off some millennial and gen z votes from him.
Somehow there are Democrats who prefer not to vote for Biden despite what Trump would do to Gaza. He'd do bad things.
Yup, they think trump is God's instrument.
It's funny, because that's exactly what the Bible says that all of the false Christians will do, in the face of apocalypse. They are fulfilling the prophecy by becoming the Satan worshiping fools that they claim to be fighting against.
trump will cancel that day 1. Unfortunately if europe doesnt step up, it doesnt look good
All bets are off should Donald return. Our government is literally held together by gentlemen's agreements the founders thought would keep things in check. This is what American Authoritarianism will be
Said deal can be easily undealed by Trump if he is President again.
I don't understand these Eurpoean countries' reluctance to help. Russia can attack every single one of them by land.
It's not so much a general European problem as it's a split between the east/north countries (most of which already give more per capita and/or as a % of gdp than the US) and the west/south (who allocate much less). https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ Then we have Hungary, for example, who are pro-Russian and have been unilaterally stopping EU-level aid to Ukraine with vetos.
A lot of right wing parties are licking putins dick. And they just had a big win in the eu elections. People don't care, they like to vote for the right cause only them arent afraid to speak about the immigration problem. Which a lot of people care about. I think they don't see russia as a danger to them I wonder what they would say the day Russia is before *their* door. I hope that never happens but damn i actually really wanna know now lol
There is currently an ongoing investigation. A lot of right wing organizations throughout Europe could be linked to Russian intelligence activities. They receive financial support and the bot/trollfarm support and in return destabilize the countries and if they get to power actively take Russian positions. So far it has been proven for Catalonia and it showed how they operate and basically all the right wing parties are in some degree compromised.
> Trump has already said that he will cease support for Ukraine if he is elected. How can a single person have so much power?
Time is a killer of all deals
It's definitely a situation where the longer the wait and later the weapons the less their effectiveness and the higher the cost for the same result, we did this mistake in 2023 we have to avoid doing this in 2024 (some positive signs on this direction but not enough yet)
Ukraine is *still* blocked from using Western weapons on the bases inside Russia that attacks are being used to attack them. There's a bit push from r/ActionforUkraine to try to get that fixed. Please do come and join in.
Did they not recently get permission to use weapons into Russia?
There was a change but only in a limited area around Kharkiv. They can't attack most of the important military targets that Russia fires rockets and sends planes from. See [this post about getting permission from ActionforUkraine](https://new.reddit.com/r/ActionForUkraine/comments/1dg2y2e/lift_restrictions_on_ukraine_using_us_weapons_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
Crazy how we made the same mistake in 1940 and here we are again
It's almost as if attrition was the point.
US literally gave all weapons possible. We had to manufacturer more weapons and ammo just to give dude. Regardless of how many weapons they got, this wouldn’t have changed. People in Ukraine were fleeing as soon as possible
Exactly. How much do you think we should give?
I really wish they were given ATACMS and immediately allowed to strike over the Russian border. The amount of Russian offenses that could have been stopped and lives saved would have been tremendous.
If they are going to conscript even men who are unwilling to fight, they should start conscripting able-bodied women as well.
There aren't many left. At least 5-8 million of them left for safer countries. Ukraine had a population of 38M in 2022. So unless you're gonna somehow call back 20% of your population, it isn't happening.
The reason nations don't conscribe woman is because they need to bear kids after the war When face with existential threat countries don't have time for things like rights and equality, only practicality I don't think people appreciate that the amount of people that already died from this war alone dwarfs every death from other natural disasters since the war started combined
Assuming that polygamy will not become common place after the war, I doubt that all this woman will bear children. If men and women have the same lethality in war it would even be beneficial to draft women, since the male/female quota is too low after the war.
> The reason nations don't conscribe woman is because they need to bear kids after the war The most common point that doesn't make any sense. And I am not talking about "who will be the father if only women are alive". By that logic: 1) Women that can have children should be forced to do it(ofc in reality they shouldn't be) 2) Women that are physically not able to bear children should be drafted. 3) Women that don't plan on having a family should be drafted. 4) Women should not be able to leave the country. Especially the last one, because now they freely leave the country whenever they want and if the situation becomes worse the more will leave. And I'm not saying it should work this way, it should NEVER be like this. I just want to say that all this "women are more important for demographics" shit doesn't make sense and is only used by hypocrites.
If Russia wins the war and destroys Ukraine (and let’s hope that doesn’t happen), then Ukraine ceases to exist as a unique society anyway, so having more kids to keep the country going is a moot point.
Every Ukrainian that cared more about that than their own lives already died on the battlefield See how fast the soldier mutiny if you send their mother, wives or daughter to the frontline
>See how fast the soldier mutiny if you send their mother, wives or daughter to the frontline Probably similar numbers to when their fathers, husbands, and sons were sent.
And take care of the already existing children. I live in Poland and saw the initial waves of refugees with my own eyes: almost every woman had children with them. Same for the people in my family who took in refugees: women with small children and grandparents with teenagers (the parents had stayed behind to work).
But a state that does not respect rights and equality is not worth fighting for anyway. Drafts are state-sponsored kidnapping and we should condemn the practice as fully as we reject chattel slavery.
This is the problem. Every country in existential threat starts prioritizing some rights over the others, and ceased to a degree from being a democracy. It happened in ww1, and in WW2. Most western population don’t understand that today because they weren’t in any existential threat since WW2. Would we really want to save our country at every cost? Cause this is what it takes, to become some sort of a monster yourself, prioritizing some people over the others etc..
You can stand on your morals as the Russian army rapes and pillages their way through your town.
This sucks. But yea, as someone else posted, this would be the same situation if the the issue was in the Western world as well. The main reason why we’re freaking out nowadays is because we haven’t seen a scale of war this size in a while, so for a long time we have been living in peace, and now seeing this and being asked to conscript is a huge shock to everyone. I do not support the war.
I don't support the war either but Ukraine is not the one at fault here or causing all of this death. That is Russia.
God forbid you don’t want to be sent to die in a trench for a war that is barely progressing, at gunpoint by your own countrymen. I support Ukraine and condemn Russia, but from an individualist perspective, it’s understandable why people don’t want to just throw their lives away like this— especially if coerced, threatened and forced to do so by the people around them.
Sooner or later a person will have to fight or flee out of the country. Nothing new here. Been happening since the dawn of man.
I don’t blame young man from not wanting to get turned into a cheese grater.
they just want to live.
If men are gone into hiding, they can conscript someone else......
Many commenters from r/worldnews? :-D I mean judging by the comments, some of them have the highest morale and tactical knowledge world ever seen.
Those someone else are already hiding in Poland/Germany.
…and the USA.
The most lethal force in all of Europe - the babushka army. Nobody has better intelligence
That would somehow be sexist
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Does Ukraine need manpower or not in this case? Corrupt officers are willing to sell out their country for $10k a head?
Imagine you live in a shitty corrupt Eastern European country where $10k could be your yearly salary. It's your job to kidnap people off the streets to go to the front after 2 days training. Someone offers you a years salary just to look the other way and maybe even help them get across the border. It's an offer a lot harder to turn down than you think.
Too bad we don't see the corruption being documented on tv or the internet. There's corruption all around us and it needs to be rooted out asap to break this shit merry go round we're on.
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Wow, I see no comments here like "you kremlin bot" and "це ж все іпсо". (People from tjournal_refugees are really mad) Please tell me why the Ukrainian Armed Forces hold out for 2.5 years against a superior enemy if everything is so bad? I'm interested in your opinion. I hope I didn't offend you in any way.
Paradoxically even the most disorganized army is still an army. Spending lives of soldiers for no reason it still can hold. Standing in defense is way easier on the army than invasion. American weapon is superior to russian. And the most important reason: Ukrainians are brave. They truly are. Many will die defending their land after knowing what happened in Bucha and Mariupol.
This is mostly Europes fault for over relying on the US military. Non US nato countries have had over 10 years (minimum since Crimea) to begin beefing up their militaries. No, instead they make fun of the US military industrial complex as reasons why Americans dont have free healthcare\college education.
I’m an American and love making the whole “$country is about to find out why we don’t have free healthcare” but you are right. NATO countries in Europe have had time to prepare and didn’t do much. At the same time, America loves being the world big brother so it falls on all the counties involved. If America took a step back you would have seen Europe maybe prepare better
Which is a bullshit argument anyway since the US spends more on healthcare than any other country that has universal healthcare….our system is actually more expensive Further, the economic benefits of a more educated workforce pays for itself.
Exactly, if my wife wouldnt do so much work around the house, i wouldnt have to rely on her on the chores. Its her fault really
Leave her and get a gym membership man, you don't deserve to be held down like that.
Unless getting held down is his kink.
Dont be Europe, go do some chores and help her out so she doesnt think you just take her for granted.
Nah I'd rather just complain about the stuff that she's not doing.
We just invest in Unhealthcare a lot more than Healthcare, and to b fair we're very good at it.
Jokes aside, there is literally no real financial reason the US shouldn’t have universal healthcare.
The issue isn't financial so much as it is corruption. We already put most of our taxes into healthcare, even the DoD's biggest expense is healthcare. The issue is the relationship between healthcare and insurance companies driving cost multiple times over our other western counterparts.
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The US doesn't want a potential problem next door.
If I'm going to build the fence I don't mind if my neighbor next to me (canada) gets some benefit from that. I do mind if my neighbor down the street (europe) expects me to build a fence for them too.
Keep in mind, even after 2014, no one thought Russia would actually invade Ukraine. And everyone was still like NATO is irrevalant.
Sure, but you dont buy home insurance because you think your house will burn down.
The more apt analogy here is you bought insurance (NATO) and your neighbor’s house (Ukraine) burned down. They did not buy insurance.
Even more apt, your neighbor's (ukraine) shed (crimea) is burning down, and you dont even test your garden hose for functionality (military) and complain about the high home insurance premiums (NATO), while making fun of your neighbor down the street (US) for installing and maintaining a state-of-the-art fire suppression system.
Don’t forget Ukraine also got bullied into giving away their fire extinguishers (nukes) and was prohibited from buying insurance (joining NATO) in exchange for a promise from a drunk with a flamethrower (Russia) not to light Ukraine’s house on fire.
These are all terrible analogies
Make a better one. Or dont and just complain... Like Europe
How so
You're nailing these analogies dude
I'm just saying, I remember the attitude towards the military pre Feb 2022, the attitude of we don't need a military
Yes. Thank you for supporting my argument.
In Europe’s defense, it was hard to pay attention to Putin’s constant Irredentist speeches for the last ten years when they were so busy making spicy anti-trump parade floats.
True. And going on about how coal and nuclear were both bad, while re opening coal plants and passing huge amounts of red tape.
Russia DID invade Ukraine in 2014... But yes I don't think most thought they would ever attempt a full blown invasion of the whole country.
That's just not true there were analysts on both sides who discussed war as a possibility it's just that many people wanted there to not be a war so badly they simply believed their own bullshit. When Putin started massing up Russian troops many people said it was inevitable including myself but we were told by others that it was still impossible.
>were told by others that it was still impossible. One of those others being Zelensky himself.
The general opinion among the public however, was still that NATO was irrelevant right up until February 2022.
Remind me again, how is NATO countries beefing up their militaries going to help a non NATO country that needs soldiers? If NATO, US or not, could send manpower without the risk of escalation, they would have done it long ago. Now you might agree or not agree with said risk of escalation, but NATOs policy (including US) has been very clear from the start. When we were collecting supplies to send to UA we were not even allowed to send uniforms with recognisable camo patterns of NATO countries because of the risk that Russia could claim them as proof of NATO boots on the ground.
That's mostly because before 2022 nobody seriously believed russia would start a full invasion of ukraine lmao
Like I said to someone who said the exact same thing is you. People dont buy home insurance because they think their house will burn down.
After the mid-70s no one ever thought the cold war would turn hot. Still prepared for it though.
You mean morons? Because they did a full on invasion of Georgia before Crimea, and Crimea was a full on invasion too. Ukraine was not prepared/corrupted from the inside so there was not much fighting, but it was a physical assault.
There too many people profiting from this war at the expense of young men fighting and dying everyday. From corrupt officers, elected officials and even refugees.
If only there was another group to recruit from to bump up the numbers. Like a group of millions that have claimed to want equality for generations, and have claimed to be stronger and smarter and more capable than men for years on end. If only...
“There are more than a million police officers in Ukraine, why should I fight when they are not?" Very good question. Police should be fightning too.
except it is a total bullshit: it implies that every 30th person in Ukraine is a policemen.
If we had given them better weaponry at the start of the war. Tens of thousands of Ukrainians would still be alive
Isn't Ukraine winning the war ? Isn't the Abram tanks decimating those old t72 ? Everything i see on the new reporting sub is just Russians taking Ls. Why does no one want to fight while they are winning ?
Because news aren't really trustworthy. If every news article was true, Zekensky would be on the Red Square as the victor. Instead, obvious thing will happen. Ukraine will lose, and once again Europe won't learn a lesson.
Forcing people to fight who don’t even go outside because they don’t want do fight is pointless they will use every change to backstab, try to surrender they will be more of a problem than useful
Not true, this comment is so ignorant of history it makes my brain hurt. Conscription has been around since war has been around and that is only because it works- right or wrong, good or bad
It works to a point
Some of the best fighters have been forced to fight. Sometimes you just need direction and training.
This is the thing about Europe. Just go a few hundred miles one way or another and you can simply walk across a border, unchecked. Who’s going to force people to fight if they really don’t want to? We imagine some magical army of volunteers like life was a WW2 movie but that just not the truth. It makes the case for a military comprised of professional soldiers and not conscripts or volunteers because it does require a degree of brainwashing to shoot someone, launch a missile or god forbid, a nuclear one. We can’t rely on normal people to do this. The major difference between Europe and Russia is in Russia, there’s nowhere to run.
Russia has open borders. It's Ukraine that doesn't allow men 18 to 60 to leave since 2022. Russia doesn't grab people on the streets either, people actually volunteer to go. So. your "major difference" is nonsense. There are plenty of places to run and there is no real reason to. The major difference between Europe and Russia is Russia follows it's national interests, Europe does whatever Uncle Sam says. Europe didn't need NATO expansion into Ukraine, it was American idea. Europe got all the problems, US got LNG and weapons contracts. Classic. Just like Arab Spring, Libya, Syria. Europe should start wising up.
But Reddit told me Ukraine had no manpower crisis.
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This is what we, Ukrainians, do. They kidnap people of the streets and they couldn't care less about videos being recorded by multiple people because our propaganda is going to label it russian fake. Oh and they have passed a law forbidding to shoot those videos. Problem solved.
Most countries have a law that says if the country is attacked men of a certain age and fit to combat must be conscripted. Even Germany has a law like this. If Germany was attacked I might have to go to war. There still is an incredible number of Ukrainian men and women who do want to fight and of course there is also a significant number of people who do not want to fight. Your anger and cynicism should not be directed towards Ukrainian law though but to the people actually forcing people into this situation. I'll give you a hint: look further east.
i don't care about laws that are written by intellectuals and rich people, i value my life and my family's life more than anything else, these officers who are kidnapping people to throw them to their death are evil.
Its the state thats messed up. Absolute amateur day pressganging people off the streets. Not recruiting young people ect. A millon non combatant policemen lol? Issue is Ukraine has been trying to maintain popular support which is a problem Putin doesnt have. Sure your family is paramount but as one Ukranian said today on the BBC article about this, they rob, rape and kill families and are heading where these non combatantd are. The MAJOR unspoken thing here is that the majority of roles arent combat, 3:1 would be a pessimistic ratio and the army cant send someone who refuses to go into combat like Russia does, you are just a liability. They cannot say that because then everyone would go that route. So this idea of "they ll send me to my death" is not true. Is it ever risk free? Hell no but if you say "I ll serve but I will not go into combat" they will have something for you to do.
I love the people who say “fuck the government I just care about my family and I’ll never fight for rich people” as if everyone did that countries like Russia would just take over and let people live completely peaceful lives just as they were before. I imagine there’s going to be a lot of discontent post Ukrainian victory (whatever that looks like) between the men who volunteered and fought this war and the men who avoided conscription but are still living in a free Ukraine.
>i don't care about laws that are written by intellectuals and rich people, i value my life and my family's life more than anything else, these officers who are kidnapping people to throw them to their death are evil. So how do you expect countries to defend themselves?
I think so too. But at the same time I think it does not take an intellectual to realize the dilemma that if no one is obliged to protect the country (and you and your family), the country will not last. The sovereignty and the people are constantly at risk. That's why most countries have a law like this. I can not say if it is just or not. It does not feel just to me. But does it feel just to me that some people are going to fight and some simply don't? I don't know. Is it just to just flee to the people who can not just leave because they are too old, too young or ill or poor? I don't know. What I hate more than this law is the fact that it is needed. The true evil are the people who make other have and use such a law.
For Germany would have hard time drafting their population if they wont change the immigration policies and reliance on immigrant workers. Sacrificing your own citizens while importing foreign workers is quite bad for moral.
Germany will not have a lot of people left if there are no immigrants. Germans are too rich to be breeding children in a self-sustainable way.
No body want to die and war is brutal. But it is also not a strange thing in any war. In every country and every war, there are many people willing to fight and many don’t. You can’t say that Ukrainians don’t want to fight because some of them don’t. You can tell exactly same thing about Russian side. The difference is Ukrainian is much likely willing to defend their homeland.
Lmfao I received like 200 downvotes a few days ago for saying “it’s probably not a good idea for any males that fit in that conscription age to travel to the country”
Was that in a context of those males holding Ukrainian passports? Because if not those downvotes were pretty valid, no one would grab a foreigner for forced conscription.
Ukraine is not Russia. As a foreigner you will not be "snatched off the street and send to the frontlines" - unlike it is actually happening in Russia. Saying stuff like this is completely unfounded and you deserved the downvotes.
Rightfully so, if you read the article you would know that they are not just grabbing people.
You wouldn't be a human if you don't want to die. But a lot of people would also want to defend their home and loved ones against the barbarian hordes.