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Would be cool if we had some sort of Glyph system for a whole bunch of cosmetic options so simple issues like "I like red vs blue for my bloodboil" don't happen.
I want more cosmetic changes, not less... hopefully they don't go back on things like blue Blood Boil or Frostfire Bolt because of this kind of feedback.
Yeah, I really don’t get why they don’t use this. They don’t give a shit about PvP anyway, and they can make a PvP option to just have all colors be default if they are worried about confusion. Let people go nuts, give inscription a purpose for existing. People can go hard into their class fantasy and have fun.
There's an NPC that let's you play for the other faction if you want. He could have an option to hide glyphs and other special effects of someone thinks those are in the way of proper PvP
The pvp argument is always dumb (just like it was with the observer pet) because we've known for 10 years now they have the ability to make other players see different things than you do with bodyguards, and now its very clear in TWW because like diabolist warlock special summons don't appear to other players because they are so big. FFXIV has also been doing this for years and years.
So literally they can just set it so you don't see other player's glyphs in pvp if that is genuinely a concern.
I don't think it would overly affect pvp. WoW isn't a shooter what you look for in pvp are big casts and defensives and I don't know of any defensives changing their visuals.
Honest to God it infuriates me that they made this entire system, ported some of the old cosmetic glyphs over while making others toys, and then *never* touched it again. They saw how much absolute praise they got for some of the most minor character model updates and customization changes-- they were in the middle of their single deepest controversy in ever with the lawsuit for sexual misconduct being so rampant in the workplace, and then they made ONE post saying "Yeah we're gonna give Nightborne a squinty eyes option" and people came out in droves to resub like they had never done a thing wrong.
If that's the response they got for making a slight change to a model's eyelids, imagine the response they'd get if they just let me summon pink fire as a Mage, or made my Death and Decay green, or let me turn my Magus of the Dead into a Banshee.
The community would be breaking into Fort Knox to turn every bar of gold over to Blizzard as a fraction of the thanks they'd wanna give.
If you think PvP gets priority consideration for things you should try maining PvP for an expansion and see how you feel at the end of it when your part of the community has been ignored for things like balance patches for months on end.
It definitely gets priority when it comes to balance and sometimes balance means you don't get to have fun things. Warlock pet change is a prime example. Has to be identified in pvp so can't have it looking different. If pvp didn't exist the pve side of the game would be a lot cooler and less homogeneous.
I'm sure pvp is why we don't have a fleshed out glyph system as well. Everything has to be vanilla and dialed back so that pvp doesn't get confusing.
Pvp is just now getting a new battleground in TWW since BFA pre-patch lol. There hasn't been a new epic bg since Ashran was reworked and thrown into the pool. Class balance and tier set design are not even considered for pvp and so some specs just go rampaging while others are useless until pvp specific tuning which can take weeks or months if at all.
They really need to improve the glyph system so it better supports this kind of things, mostly the UI but also some should be had by default just for the sake of changing visuals of spells.
Or maybe something like a barber shop for spells? Idk anything for us to be able to customize visually our spells.
This. Please bring back glyphs in a huge big giant way. Glyphs are the cosmetic fix that would be so sick. Glyphs to make spells more race specific like loa stuff for zandalari priests and paladins, or glyphs that give more undead minion options for dk (more than what already exists), or glyphs that let you xmog a polearm to a 1h weapon so you can go spear and shield. Add 100000000 glyphs please
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This doesn’t need to be glyphs. Glyphs are a janky system that should be retired.
This could all be implemented in the barber shop UI. Much easier to work with.
People should stop thinking cosmetics customisation = glyphs. Glyphs suck!
Just make "learning" the glyph unlock it in the customization. At this point inscription needs something to validate it being in the game. Honestly they should add a bunch of customization shit in as inscription stuff and make it a prof where you can farm something like Hellfire Citadel to unlock a pattern for "fel green" hair color for people to use. Or clearing WotLK dungeons/raids has a chance to drop an icy chains saddle for dragon mounts or something. That would really expand the profession and add a fun reason to go and do older content.
>Just make "learning" the glyph unlock it in the customization
Hell, they already do that with Druid forms... All old druid form glyphs teach you the customization to use at the barber.
>Honestly they should add a bunch of customization shit in as inscription stuff and make it a prof where you can farm something like Hellfire Citadel to unlock a pattern for "fel green" hair color for people to use
Its been a while but that basically was a large part of Inscription at its inception (IIRC they even "sold" it as a more fun, customization based profession) and especially during Legion. I don't have much positive to say about its current state...
I agree, but it should be in a separate barbershop, like the rostrum thing for dragon riding. Barbershop for player model. Give me an Ethereal Spellweaver to choose the looks of my major spells.
Yup it's due for an update, for what it currently is it isnt that bad though
Theres very few glyphs as it is so it the clunkiness of the system doesnt really matter
Cosmetic options are good. The problem is being forced into them when you dont like them. Stuff like warlock green fire is great because you can choose to turn it on/off.
But Hero Talents once again tie power to fantasy/cosmetics, and you HAVE to pick one of two options (when your character fantasy might be neither).
I.e. Marksman hunter's two choices are night elf hunter (Sentinel, getting nelf visuals) and Undead (Dark Ranger). Dwarfs, orcs etc are forced into those fantasies if you want to play the spec.
Yep. And since I play a Night Elf MM hunter there is no way in the universe I'll go Dark Ranger. I'd rather reroll, it wouldn't fit the class fantasy at all.
Seriously wtf is this. Without lots of cosmetics change this expension has no new class or race and no major new feature combat gameplay wise.
So we're supposed to get excited about hero talent but it's mostly just numbers? That's extremly lame. It doesn't help the talent tree is only 3 choices.
I think you have it backwards. What they say in the interview is that there WILL be cosmetic spell changes with hero talents, and that while they're aware some folks don't want that, they'll consider ways to support that preference but there won't be any such option. In other words, you're getting cosmetic changes whether you want em or not! It's not mostly just numbers.
Not when not alternative exist. Like riders or the 4 wind. Or Sunfury needing a pet and so on.
They should just focus on the new class fantasy which now include the subclass.
I'm not sure if there are any wow characters that have blue fire already. But there is Azula from Avatar, and the psychic girl from the first hell boy movie who have blue fire which is pretty dope.Wrap it up as a quest like warlocks green fire and it's be awesome.
Thats what I want on my frost aswell whenever I comet storm and a meteor falls aswell from the sky. (I might be a little biased here, because I just hate the colours of fire) how cool would it be if meteor didn’t have the standard fiery look, but instead a bluefire one.
Give some feedback then. If the people bitching about it are the only feedback they are getting then that’s what they are going to make changes based on
Exactly. I don't understand how they forget about glyphs. They could expand on this with a glyph collection.
Also DK (human pala/wlock) can we have our mounts retextured as a glyph ?
I meant that as in so far, in the current state of the game, glyphs feel kinda left aside while there is a big big unexploited potential for spells/summons/mounts customization in the game. (except maybe warlocks are in a good state in this area, but even they have recieved little love since legion)
I really hope the answer isn’t “disable all cosmetic changes”
Because a lot of these look really cool. Just do glyphs later to turn the spell effects off for people that don’t want them
It's a strange complaint because the game's most famous orc walks the line between warrior and shaman, so having some lightning effects on my orc warrior just makes me feel like Thrall. Seems like a cool thing.
They've been bitching about Blademaster not being made a Hero Spec, when Blizzard's reasoning for doing so was pretty solid.
Blademasters use Stealth, Clones, and move really really fast - which is so far removed from Warrior fantasy it'd completely shatter the boundaries of what they're trying to achieve with the Hero Talents.
I agree with this frankly. Blademaster would be a weird as hell addition.
I disagree. But thats how opinions work.
I think blademaster could be between arms and fury. The clone could function like that one dk spell where they summon thier weapons. And blademaster as far as i know is jugg from dota so spin to win is a blademaster fantasy.
They should be complaining about the gameplay it offers because it's a massive step below the other two trees Warriors got. Who the fuck wants to cast TC as Fury?
Same thing for the Riders tree dks got. Lowest hanging jingling key effect they've done out of all the trees. There's Zero gameplay to it, you can't use the perma mount in Raids/Dungeons and the Choice node with the perma mount puts your DA on the gcd. It is heinously bad compared to a lot of the other trees they've released.
> Who the fuck wants to cast TC as Fury?
If it looks cool as shit I'd love to do so.
> Same thing for the Riders tree dks got. Lowest hanging jingling key effect they've done out of all the trees. There's Zero gameplay to it
Honestly do you think Frost or Unholy DK needs another layer of shit on top of what they are already doing? Especially Unholy. Getting something visually awesome that doesn't get in the way sounds perfect.
And the biggest point of feedback I've heard is that Shado-Pan doesn't even feel you're playing with Hero Talents. Aesthetics can be pretty useful when trying to capture a specific theme.
That's so brutal. I hope that they do at least *something* interesting with it. But i imagine its not easy, given that Shado-Pan monks are essentially just monks really.
Yeah, I was disappointed with Shado-Pan not having anything like smoke bombs, a shadow step like thing, potentially bringing back jab to replace tiger palm so they actually use their darn weapon. Regardless, Conduit of Celestials looks great, so I'm leaning toward that puppy.
To be fair, whether Conduit is considered viable by the top 1% or not, it doesn't bother me. I'm going to use it regardless, I don't find enjoyment in just chasing the meta for a miniscule increase in the grand scheme. I've played Monk since Pandaria, and it hasn't always been good, but I've made it work since I adore the class. But I'm always up for more, cheers!
terminally online twitter weirdos who roleplay as dark rangers but don't want to play as a ranged spec for some reason
also some very loud ppl taking huge issue with the names of the warlock talents because they don't like satyr so much that they don't even want to have passive talents named after them
idk man ppl really overestimate how much flavor these things are meant to have lol
Dark Ranger twitter profiles are frequently the most unhinged WoW profiles I've ever seen.
It's wild because these aren't likely to be too end mythic raiders or PvPers so even if their hero spec is weak it isn't likely to impact them at all.
Fr. Who tf is saying no? Ive only seen "yes" and "more" for cosmetics. Iduno where theyre getting thier feedback but its the same dipshts that are saying people dont wanna play tuskarr. People for sure want playable tuskarr.
I think the main class I understand the argument for the most is Hunter.
Marksmanship, especially. Both of its talent trees, being Dark Ranger and Sentinel, are magical. You can't avoid being rethemed into a magical aesthetic by your hero tree, at all. Survival and Beast Mastery _at least_ have Pack Leader.
It forces the spec even _further_ away from the "Man with a bow" fantasy that it's already historically struggled to just stick to.
MM has had Arcane Shot as a core rotational ability since Vanilla. And that's not getting into all of the other magical abilities like Mend Pet, Hunter's Mark, Black Arrow, Sentinel, etc. There has never been a point in time where it hasn't been a mix of martial skill and magical ability because Hunter is based directly off the Ranger class from D&D.
Hell to the naw. Hero talents should have major impacts on the way our characters look, changing them to be more of whatever the theme is. If I’m frostfire Mage, I want red/blue everything.
Yeah right now that spell alone looks amazing. If you run fire mage and call down a meteor and then have comet storm smash shit as well it looks awesome even if the rotation feels slightly bloated, it at least looks cool.
It seems like such an easy win as well. They *know* class flavor and customization is literally what everyone likes, it's nothing but bonus points.
The worst thing is that the green fire questline was most likely an accident, Xelnath lobbied heavily for it.
I would like to see more cosmetic changes, obviously done in a thoughtful and reasonable way. Glyphs or similar system could be used to change ability visuals, to give players a choice between different spell effects (similar to warlocks green fel fire). It would be great if we could have more thematic abilities better fitting race/class combos.
What is this feedback? Then while we’re at it let’s complain about specs. Shouldn’t the same people complaining about hero talents also complain about specs?
How is this any different than picking destro over affli because of performance? Some people seriously just complain for the sake of it…
Don’t limit visual effects, hell add even more.
This did happen at one point. People complained that specs were becoming "too distinct" from the base class. The end result was getting back a bunch of awful "base" abilities for all specs, like Death and Decay for all DK specs, Slice and Dice for rogues, etc. Absolutely one of the worst changes Blizzard has made.
This may be a small thing to be annoyed at but w/e
Shado-Pan monk is stupid. Shado-Pan isn't a type of monk. It's an organization. A monk who's in the Shado-Pan would be a Blackguard, along with Warriors and others who are more physical. The Wu Kao branch would be assassin type Rogues along with Hunters and the Omnia branch would cover things like Monks who heal, Mages and Priests. Also there are no outsiders in the Shado-Pan so you would not see a Human Shado-Pan monk.
Thank you
I’m a loser panda monk and have been for years. The shado pan branch is so dumb thematically I can’t believe their team pushed that up.
The shado pan set should’ve stayed locked or became panda heritage armor as well. It’s like the only race specific cool thing pandaren had lol.
I mean Blizz even went as far as to include members of the Shado-pan as class hall followers in non-monk order halls.. Yalia Sagewhisper is a priest follower, Taoshi is a rogue follower.
I agree. Not one of my mains, but I have an alt monk so I get 15% of an opinion
It would be like having SI:7 as a spec for rogues. The shado-pan are cool but their techniques should be cool abilities in the tree, not a spec in themselves. The shado-pan absolutely deserve more lore presence, but this way feels weird.
I think they definitely could have a strong role to play on the expac as I understand it (as a faction that's sick and strong af with history fighting old god nonsense) and I hope they play to that in some other way
...an organization of monks, who fight with a specific fighting style.
I wouldn't mind seeing it change or anything, but I don't see any real problems with it either.
Did u even read the comment? The Shado-Pan are NOT an order of monks. They are the protecting force of Pandaria who have all classes present including monks
Yes, and I disagree with it.
Sure, sometimes the game made Shado Pan of other classes, but those were still monks. It's the same as how Anduin is still a priest, not a paladin, even though we see him wearing armor. Or how Tyrande can use a bow while also being a priest or how Maeive is a Warden that doesn't fit into any class neatly.
The playable classes, as we know them, don't exist in-universe as strict rules. A monk can use a sword, or a bow, or magic, and still be a monk, because in-universe what makes a monk is their discipline and way of life more than their exact fighting style.
The Shado Pan monks have a specific style and method (basically, ninjas) that they use when fighting. It makes just as much sense for a monk to be a Shado Pan monk as it does for a hunter to be a Sentinel, a warrior to be a Mountain Thane, or a druid to be a Keeper of the Grove.
None of these are strictly related to the classes in question, and characters with those titles don't always strictly follow the rules of the associated classes, but they are all very closely related to the classes in question, and it would be very silly to say that a hunter can't be a Sentinel just because a lore Sentinel once used a warrior ability somewhere.
Ur just completely wrong tho, throne of thunder has shado pan npcs of all the classes, and one of the rogue hall npcs is a shado pan rogue. they literally aren't all monks and never have been lol
Did you not read what I wrote at all? The Shado Pan rogue in the rogue order hall is also a Shado Pan monk. The strict delineation of classes that the game enforces on us is just a gameplay conceit. It doesn't exist as strictly in the lore, so it's no problem for an NPC to be a monk that uses rogue abilities, or even for a character to call themselves a rogue while also being a monk.
All Shado Pan are monks. Many of them also use abilities associated with other classes, and some even also identify as those classes (or more often, the game treats them as other classes for gameplay reasons). That doesn't change that they are still monks first, and those other things second.
No where the lore states that they are monks. They are described as the peace keeping force of the continent.
The original members of the Shado-Pan were called the 100 warriors so even they weren’t called monks.
You literally quest with members of the Shado Pan who are neither stealthy or monkish (mage, priest)
You basically disagree something the game shows and tells you to be true
>No where the lore states that they are monks.
Tbf in the same link you provided below quite literally mentions just that: Taran Zhu in the Vol'jin novel, which is canon hence [Tyrathan](https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/553793.jpg) from the novel, states that every member is a Monk when they become a member of the organization:
>When a pandaren becomes fully Shado-Pan, the monk travels with one of the order's master artisans deep below the earth into the heart of the Kun-Lai mountains and marks out a little piece of the mountain's bones. The artisan then carves it into the monk's likeness, leaving it connected to the bone. When the monk dies, the statue breaks free. All such statues are gathered and stored in the Shado-Pan Monastery so that all may remember those who came before.
It's probably have to do more with Blizz not paying attention what goes in the books (remember Genn having a tail apparentely). The person above says every member of the Shado-Pan is a monk with "flavour" when there is no hard evidence for this.
Especially when you look at the non monk members u meet like Taoshi for example. None of them use a single monk skill but they use the skills of their class (rogue, hunter, mage or priest). You can argue that they are monks in the sense of not the class but being actually a religious recluse of the Celestials but I don't think it holds. Characters such as Taoshi even joined the respective order hall and not the monk one.
I think he missed the point that they're monks in the sense that they've joined a monastery. Not the playable class Monks. Somone who joins the Shado-Pan would be a disciple aka a monk. Similar to how those who train at the Temple of the White Tiger would be considered Priests but are clearly Playable monks.
well…a lot of people missing it looking at my downvotes. I’m not sure what else u can do when the Shado-Pan literally have different cells for different playable classes who are in the game clearly not possess any monk class skills
But if u want more evidence:
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Shado-Pan
Literally tells u that the monks of the order are in the Blackguard cell while other classes make up other cells of the organisation.
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There's even an entire daily quest hub where you can select various Shado-Pan buddies with various classes to accompany you. You'd think there would be *someone* at Blizzard who remembers.
the cosmetic changes are the only interesting part of the hero talents, I sort of wish they'd scrap the gameplay mechanics and just add a lot of different visual glyphs for classes instead
As a Warlock-exclusive player here's my two cents (I'm fully aware it's the alpha, and thus extremely early to judge) :
- Diabolist : perfect, top 3 across all classes. The gameplay is crisp and the visuals are amazing, nothing to say here. My nitpick is that it feels like demonology on steroids with destro not having much of a flavor other than the overfiend, which is why I wish it leaned into the "sacrifice demons to take their power" trope more.
- Hellcaller : 6/10, the Satyr theme is positively surprising and amibitious, but I straight up expected some Nightmare influence, a proper combination of fire and shadow, like the VFX used by Xavius. Gameplay wise, the RoF spam fits the theme, and I'm a sucker for instant-cast gameplay. Haven't checked the Affli gameplay yet. Wither has yet to receive VFX so I'll chalk it up to work in progress.
- Soul Harvester : by far the worst of the three, and possibly bottom 3 across all classes.
Other than flavor text, there's just not much going on. The void revenant inhabiting your soul is pretty fun though, I wish it was semi-permanent, floating behind your back (kind of a stand from jojo). Malefic Rupture needs to go and never return.
I want all frost spells animations removed from my dk and instead have a cute little blue whelping that does my spells while my dk does the physical parts.
They were asked the question. Its not like blizzard is out of touch and just volunteered that information. There are a ton of players who don't want new cosmetic visuals. I think they should go crazy with new visuals and just have a toggle for traditional spell effects in the talent menu.
Honestly, I get this, so many people are going to want to be a dark ranger or a rider of the apocalypse. If it turns out that these lose a fairly significant amount of damage, people won’t play them.
What? The cosmetic side of things from the new hero talents are by far and away the best part about them? Some of the stuff feels bloated but it looks like cool as shit when you are doing your rotations and such.
Man people will find anything to cry about... who cares if some visuala changed for an xpac? 99% of the time you dont even notice the animation during combat anyway
Yeah ok but I think nothing is stopping them from making new lore to thematicalöy include orcs as dark eangers or whatever I mean its a made up story in the end and the writers went back and changed stuff many times.
This is just next level entiltement from those complaining and expect developerd to take into account all views and opinions
Who tf is telling blizzard people dont want cosmetic changes??? Who tf is telling them that people dont want tuskarr?? Where tf is blizzard taking thier surveys? Are they having em inhouse??
I know for a fact people want to play tuskarr. I am one of said people. I saw a tuskarr pali post recently and the top comment was saying they dont want tuskarr but every replay and literally every other comment was pro playable tuskarr.
Probably the same people saying they don't want Tinkers, even though there are some of us who are desperately keen for their addition. Saying it would "break their immersion" to see people playing as them, even though magical technology has been a part of Warcraft since literally forever.
They'd rather other players miss out over something that barely affects them at all (see also: playable Tuskarr).
They just need to make new specs and stop meddling with the existing ones, ,make a new one, maybe give it an update or two over an expansion, and then leave it alone and move on!
I think Wowhead should reconsider its choices for who/what journalists to post to their website. Game Rant is the sister site for Screen Rant and I know how bullshit Screen Rant journalists are and 100% expect the same from Game Rant. Their journalists know exactly how to write an article that makes the reader forget context and I don’t believe this article is a honest publication of the actual interview.
Screen Rant is notorious for controversial takes, so don’t let Game Rants question of “some players don’t like the cosmetic class changes” bait you…
More interesting for me is the mention that hero talents will be an evergreen system. I wonder if they will continue to expand into specialized subclasses in future expansions, as opposed to adding new classes altgoether.
Of all the complaints that I have seen about hero talents, this is the one I have never seen? Where did these come from? I thought the implemented visuals we've seen thus far were mostly positive.
“Aware” but they’re too far along to change the system so this will be an issue for the entirety of TWW because they lacked the foresight/ability to parse feedback into a better system
Yeah we need more cosmetic changes and options. Glyphs should make a huge comeback to give people those options. It would also be nice maybe as a general setting to let people set all spell effects to “normal” individually, so for instance, I could have cool effects that I see but maybe my party member who doesn’t want to see them, doesn’t. FFXIV has a way to reduce party effects since their spell effects can be kind of overwhelming. At the same time, their effects are pretty cool because of that I think.
I just want my active pets to match my beast companion and my dire beast everytime even even I change my active pet without having to go to the stables.
This is so disappointing.
When they announced Hero Talents, I was hoping we were getting more ways to play our class, not just amplifications what we already do that fits within our class fantasy.
Hero talents would be the perfect space to explore new avenues such as allowing certain spec Druids to be a a Nightmare or Firelands based Druid. Why limit us to expansion of more DoT/Hot playstyle that we’ve already had since the class was announced?
Why not then go whacky with it, eventually, and do a crazy mix where by maybe Alliance Druids are able to quasi mix in the Light with their Ferall abilities and you get these crazy Paladin like Feral cats. It’d be amazing to see a system where players could actually choose how they want to play their class in a way they want to see fit, not with whatever Blizzard has for their direct class fantasy, and then endlessly expanding upon that for years to come. Hero Talents could finally be that system to allow the player that level of customization.
I know the most common criticism to this would be the learning curve to it all, but the reality is that with dragon flight talents, you’d need to account for all these variations and know what each class does. As far as Hero Talents are concerned, it’s a much smaller tree, and if players really need that clarity of knowing what they are up against, place a buff on the player (that can’t be removed of course) that tells everyone what hero talents they have. A monk with Shado-Pan talents would have a buff that states “Shado-Pan” etc.
Come blizzard, do it. Give me that scarlet crusade holy monk. Give me that Demon Hunter that can eat demons and absorb their essence to change the game play. Give me that nightmare or firelands druid. Give me that time based arcane mage, or healing fire mage using cauterizing to heal. There’s soooo much potential in this system.
conceptually the whole point of the hero talents is to give you some special cosmetic flair so there's no chance in hell they are gonna add something to take that flair away again. terminally online twitter weirdos will have to learn to deal with it.
like its no more disruptive to your "class fantasy" than if you get a trinket that summons some adds or does a spell effect you don't like the look of lol. that's just how wow is tho and how its literally always been. u dont hear ppl losing their shit when they get a trinket that summons a frog or smth and have them go "DAMN IT MY GUY ISNT MEANT TO BE A FROG SUMMONER". deal with it the frog does good dps.
Meanwhile I'm over here thinking Shado-Pan doesn't do much cosmetically and left me wanting more than the 1 animation it's seemingly offering - if anything I would've expected to see Sha or Lightning/Wind, given Shaohao and Xuen's influence lorewise; or even Shadowy undertones given the capstone quite literally deals Shadow magic plus the secret orders ingame presence.
If anything the organization of Monks (moonlighting other classes) only seems to be reflected in talent names, while the talents themselves is just every stat minus Indestructible and Block. The design works, it will probably be strong, but thematically aesthetically mechanically it's quite lacking; I find myself more hyped for the WW talent rework than the Hero Talents tbh.
WoW is still so behind the times it's pitiful. For a company that espouses "class fantasy" and says "we'll do this/that eventually", they just never get out of their own way. Ffs it's 2024, the game is 20 years old this year. And to this day my Paladin who has been getting in life or death battles since Vanilla can't even have a scar put on his face without completely changing his face and ethnicity, or have glowing golden eyes as he's become more and more powerful as expansions progressed.
So basically this means the opposite of what most the community actually wants or expected, they have zero plans to make hero specs add lots of cosmetic flavor lmao. Seems like blizzard is already phoning in the excuses early for what’s going to extensionally just be boring extra talent rows divided up and labeled to appear like something they aren’t.
Yeah, some of the hero trees are a bit more race-specific than others. Marksman hunter basically is forced to pick between being an undead elf or a night elf. One warrior tree is specifically dedicated to being a dwarf. I myself feel like hero trees were a mistake. They should have either just given us more talent points to choose from or added a few new talents to the trees.
I agree and disagree.
I think hero talents are really cool and I like the idea especially because some of them come with some cosmetic changes.
But I think you're right that they shouldn't be named the way they are.
I'm a Warrior main and Colossus and Slayer are fine because they are unspecific to anything in lore. But it would feel very strange being a Mountain Thane on my Farraki skinned Troll...
I think ones like Mountain Thane, Dark Ranger and Sentinel should be changed to something less lore significant.
I'm not even an RP'er but even for me it feels a bit off.
Yep. I think everyone's seeing hero tree hate and not looking at what my actual complaints are. I just want more race agnostic hero specs. I don't want to have to change my class aesthetic if I like how it is now. I saw some stuff (granted it might not be final) on alpha testing that your hero spec will also visually change some of your other abilities (not the ones added specifically in the hero tree)
I mean you can play a different spec. You can't just not pick a hero tree. Marksman is forced to pick between being a dark ranger (which is specifically an undead blood elf thing) or a sentinel (which is specifically a night elf thing)
This forced thing is all in your head and its getting annoying how people abuse the word "forced" at the slightest change. This is just getting absurd judt because a hero tree is themed around a dark ranger does not suddenly "force" you to play an undead this is just ridiculous and sorry to say but stupid
Dawg there's literally no other options for marksman that aren't elf themed. I can just play BM or survival but how the fuck is an orc marksman gonna just have either black arrow or a sentinel owl?
"Dont worry, we will get rid of all visual effects and never give you cosmetic hero classes"-them probably
My concern is they are taking away the wrong message, we WANT the cosmetic change,we just want to choose and control it outside of forced gameplay.
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Would be cool if we had some sort of Glyph system for a whole bunch of cosmetic options so simple issues like "I like red vs blue for my bloodboil" don't happen.
Glyphs huh? Sounds outlandish but it just might work. They could even make a new profession that could make them, called Scribing or something
Scribomancy.
That sounds like too much work. Would probably cost us an entire raid tier just to implement it.
I want more cosmetic changes, not less... hopefully they don't go back on things like blue Blood Boil or Frostfire Bolt because of this kind of feedback.
Or just turn the feedback into glyphs so players can opt in or out of colors/themes
Yeah, I really don’t get why they don’t use this. They don’t give a shit about PvP anyway, and they can make a PvP option to just have all colors be default if they are worried about confusion. Let people go nuts, give inscription a purpose for existing. People can go hard into their class fantasy and have fun.
There's an NPC that let's you play for the other faction if you want. He could have an option to hide glyphs and other special effects of someone thinks those are in the way of proper PvP
The pvp argument is always dumb (just like it was with the observer pet) because we've known for 10 years now they have the ability to make other players see different things than you do with bodyguards, and now its very clear in TWW because like diabolist warlock special summons don't appear to other players because they are so big. FFXIV has also been doing this for years and years. So literally they can just set it so you don't see other player's glyphs in pvp if that is genuinely a concern.
I don't think it would overly affect pvp. WoW isn't a shooter what you look for in pvp are big casts and defensives and I don't know of any defensives changing their visuals.
Honest to God it infuriates me that they made this entire system, ported some of the old cosmetic glyphs over while making others toys, and then *never* touched it again. They saw how much absolute praise they got for some of the most minor character model updates and customization changes-- they were in the middle of their single deepest controversy in ever with the lawsuit for sexual misconduct being so rampant in the workplace, and then they made ONE post saying "Yeah we're gonna give Nightborne a squinty eyes option" and people came out in droves to resub like they had never done a thing wrong. If that's the response they got for making a slight change to a model's eyelids, imagine the response they'd get if they just let me summon pink fire as a Mage, or made my Death and Decay green, or let me turn my Magus of the Dead into a Banshee. The community would be breaking into Fort Knox to turn every bar of gold over to Blizzard as a fraction of the thanks they'd wanna give.
I'm so tired of pvp sucking fun shit out of the main game. I like pvp but it has way too much priority considering how little participation it gets.
If you think PvP gets priority consideration for things you should try maining PvP for an expansion and see how you feel at the end of it when your part of the community has been ignored for things like balance patches for months on end.
It definitely gets priority when it comes to balance and sometimes balance means you don't get to have fun things. Warlock pet change is a prime example. Has to be identified in pvp so can't have it looking different. If pvp didn't exist the pve side of the game would be a lot cooler and less homogeneous. I'm sure pvp is why we don't have a fleshed out glyph system as well. Everything has to be vanilla and dialed back so that pvp doesn't get confusing.
Pvp is just now getting a new battleground in TWW since BFA pre-patch lol. There hasn't been a new epic bg since Ashran was reworked and thrown into the pool. Class balance and tier set design are not even considered for pvp and so some specs just go rampaging while others are useless until pvp specific tuning which can take weeks or months if at all.
pvp playerbase despite being insignificant, is disproportionately loud
Its ok, the only things that matter in pvp are tracked by addons and weak auras
They really need to improve the glyph system so it better supports this kind of things, mostly the UI but also some should be had by default just for the sake of changing visuals of spells. Or maybe something like a barber shop for spells? Idk anything for us to be able to customize visually our spells.
or just add it to the barbershop and yes that would be amazing!
This. Please bring back glyphs in a huge big giant way. Glyphs are the cosmetic fix that would be so sick. Glyphs to make spells more race specific like loa stuff for zandalari priests and paladins, or glyphs that give more undead minion options for dk (more than what already exists), or glyphs that let you xmog a polearm to a 1h weapon so you can go spear and shield. Add 100000000 glyphs please
Oh, yes, please, let my frost mage have BLACK ice with white edge lines!
Inscription could really, really use some new glyphs! Long overdue.
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Updating the glyph system would be dope yeah
This.... just so the changes and add glyphs to turn them off. Simple fix that doesn't require devs dealing with people.
Or wasting valuable dev time solving a problem or debating which 1 cosmetic goes into the game The solution is right there
This doesn’t need to be glyphs. Glyphs are a janky system that should be retired. This could all be implemented in the barber shop UI. Much easier to work with. People should stop thinking cosmetics customisation = glyphs. Glyphs suck!
Just make "learning" the glyph unlock it in the customization. At this point inscription needs something to validate it being in the game. Honestly they should add a bunch of customization shit in as inscription stuff and make it a prof where you can farm something like Hellfire Citadel to unlock a pattern for "fel green" hair color for people to use. Or clearing WotLK dungeons/raids has a chance to drop an icy chains saddle for dragon mounts or something. That would really expand the profession and add a fun reason to go and do older content.
>Just make "learning" the glyph unlock it in the customization Hell, they already do that with Druid forms... All old druid form glyphs teach you the customization to use at the barber. >Honestly they should add a bunch of customization shit in as inscription stuff and make it a prof where you can farm something like Hellfire Citadel to unlock a pattern for "fel green" hair color for people to use Its been a while but that basically was a large part of Inscription at its inception (IIRC they even "sold" it as a more fun, customization based profession) and especially during Legion. I don't have much positive to say about its current state...
Glyphs are half assed but they dont suck, and this would be the perfect excuse to rebuild that system
I agree, but it should be in a separate barbershop, like the rostrum thing for dragon riding. Barbershop for player model. Give me an Ethereal Spellweaver to choose the looks of my major spells.
Sure that’s fine
I hate glyphs as a system, because it feels dated and clunky to buy cosmetics in game for uses. I'd prefer a transmog system for it.
Yup it's due for an update, for what it currently is it isnt that bad though Theres very few glyphs as it is so it the clunkiness of the system doesnt really matter
I miss my destro lock engulfing in fire the more embers he had, such a small thing, but amazing visual.
Cosmetic options are good. The problem is being forced into them when you dont like them. Stuff like warlock green fire is great because you can choose to turn it on/off. But Hero Talents once again tie power to fantasy/cosmetics, and you HAVE to pick one of two options (when your character fantasy might be neither). I.e. Marksman hunter's two choices are night elf hunter (Sentinel, getting nelf visuals) and Undead (Dark Ranger). Dwarfs, orcs etc are forced into those fantasies if you want to play the spec.
Yep. And since I play a Night Elf MM hunter there is no way in the universe I'll go Dark Ranger. I'd rather reroll, it wouldn't fit the class fantasy at all.
Yup. This feedback should be ignored. I want more hero talent fantasy cosmetics, not less.
Exactly
Seriously wtf is this. Without lots of cosmetics change this expension has no new class or race and no major new feature combat gameplay wise. So we're supposed to get excited about hero talent but it's mostly just numbers? That's extremly lame. It doesn't help the talent tree is only 3 choices.
>no major new feature combat gameplay wise Delves?
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"Torghast?"
I think you have it backwards. What they say in the interview is that there WILL be cosmetic spell changes with hero talents, and that while they're aware some folks don't want that, they'll consider ways to support that preference but there won't be any such option. In other words, you're getting cosmetic changes whether you want em or not! It's not mostly just numbers.
I mean Frostfire Bolt is the entire identity of the one spec, no way they'll be changing that.
I havent heard anything about a blue blood boil. Do you have a source for this?
Deathbringer's talent Bind in Darkness converts your Blood Boil to Shadowfrost, and turns it blue to match.
That's so cool! I'm jealous, though. As an Evoker, I was hoping flameshaper would do something similar with Disintegrate, but no such luck.
I honestly hope all flamshaper spells becomes red cause I want to use full red skill as pres dracthyr
Would it be difficult to make them optional?
A little bit when hero talent are not optional.
I feel like the visual changes could be a toggle 🤷🏼♂️
Not when not alternative exist. Like riders or the 4 wind. Or Sunfury needing a pet and so on. They should just focus on the new class fantasy which now include the subclass.
All change is good change then? I don't want my fully frost themed mage to suddenly do frostfire or arcane Magic.
I have a nibble of lore for you, all mages are arcane, fire and frost mage just make hot and cold arcane and pure arcane is just raw magic
More chances are what we need.
Give me blue fire when I combust god damnit
Honestly surprised blue fire mage isn't a thing.
Glad I wasn’t the only thinking about a blue fire mage! It would be sooo dope
I'm not sure if there are any wow characters that have blue fire already. But there is Azula from Avatar, and the psychic girl from the first hell boy movie who have blue fire which is pretty dope.Wrap it up as a quest like warlocks green fire and it's be awesome.
I'm just here to chew bubblegum and channel Satan, and I'm all out of bubblegum.
give me that Azula cosplay already
I'm sorry it had to come to this, KetiZke.
Thats what I want on my frost aswell whenever I comet storm and a meteor falls aswell from the sky. (I might be a little biased here, because I just hate the colours of fire) how cool would it be if meteor didn’t have the standard fiery look, but instead a bluefire one.
Give me blue fire when I bust god damnit** I fixed it for you
It’s may be very small change but Deathbringer turning the color of Blood DKs Blood Boil to blue is so cool to me
That’s a fantastic change. Now give me Red Eyes in the San’Lyn spec and we’re good
Also let Elf DKs use the Dark Ranger customization options. It’s odd they can’t already
Oh that sounds great . Any clip of that i can see ?
Yo what? That’s amazing, oh I really hope they keep that!
But I want the cosmetic changes that would be expected to come with using hero talents
Give some feedback then. If the people bitching about it are the only feedback they are getting then that’s what they are going to make changes based on
Please please please don't take away possible cosmetic changes because some people find it undesirable. At the very least, keep it optional.
Cosmetic. Glyphs.
Exactly. I don't understand how they forget about glyphs. They could expand on this with a glyph collection. Also DK (human pala/wlock) can we have our mounts retextured as a glyph ?
They didn't forget about glyphs. They explicitly mentioned glyphs in the interview as a possible solution.
I meant that as in so far, in the current state of the game, glyphs feel kinda left aside while there is a big big unexploited potential for spells/summons/mounts customization in the game. (except maybe warlocks are in a good state in this area, but even they have recieved little love since legion)
We need more visual changes not less, many hero talents are lacking visually while few others really have a lot of "visual" fantasy going on.
I really hope the answer isn’t “disable all cosmetic changes” Because a lot of these look really cool. Just do glyphs later to turn the spell effects off for people that don’t want them
Who the fuck is giving that feedback? I’ve only seen overwhelming positivity surrounding those features
A lot of the warriors have been whining about mountain thane, the orc warrior crowd mainly
It's a strange complaint because the game's most famous orc walks the line between warrior and shaman, so having some lightning effects on my orc warrior just makes me feel like Thrall. Seems like a cool thing.
They've been bitching about Blademaster not being made a Hero Spec, when Blizzard's reasoning for doing so was pretty solid. Blademasters use Stealth, Clones, and move really really fast - which is so far removed from Warrior fantasy it'd completely shatter the boundaries of what they're trying to achieve with the Hero Talents. I agree with this frankly. Blademaster would be a weird as hell addition.
blademaster should really be his own class or a spec for rogue
I disagree. But thats how opinions work. I think blademaster could be between arms and fury. The clone could function like that one dk spell where they summon thier weapons. And blademaster as far as i know is jugg from dota so spin to win is a blademaster fantasy.
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Because Mountain King is so much more iconic as a theme from Warcraft 3.
Gladiator spec/stance is too pure for this filthy world. We simply do not deserve to witness its magnificence.
They should be complaining about the gameplay it offers because it's a massive step below the other two trees Warriors got. Who the fuck wants to cast TC as Fury? Same thing for the Riders tree dks got. Lowest hanging jingling key effect they've done out of all the trees. There's Zero gameplay to it, you can't use the perma mount in Raids/Dungeons and the Choice node with the perma mount puts your DA on the gcd. It is heinously bad compared to a lot of the other trees they've released.
> Who the fuck wants to cast TC as Fury? If it looks cool as shit I'd love to do so. > Same thing for the Riders tree dks got. Lowest hanging jingling key effect they've done out of all the trees. There's Zero gameplay to it Honestly do you think Frost or Unholy DK needs another layer of shit on top of what they are already doing? Especially Unholy. Getting something visually awesome that doesn't get in the way sounds perfect.
Did you see Monk? Shado-Pan has NO new visuals.
And the biggest point of feedback I've heard is that Shado-Pan doesn't even feel you're playing with Hero Talents. Aesthetics can be pretty useful when trying to capture a specific theme.
Yeah, it’s shit. Worst thing is I’m pretty sure Shado-Pan will be must have for WW, so I’ll be stuck with basically nothing new.
That's so brutal. I hope that they do at least *something* interesting with it. But i imagine its not easy, given that Shado-Pan monks are essentially just monks really.
Yeah, I was disappointed with Shado-Pan not having anything like smoke bombs, a shadow step like thing, potentially bringing back jab to replace tiger palm so they actually use their darn weapon. Regardless, Conduit of Celestials looks great, so I'm leaning toward that puppy.
Yeah, same. I thought it would have more like a ninja skills or smth. Conduit looks great, I hope it will be viable in raiding etc.
To be fair, whether Conduit is considered viable by the top 1% or not, it doesn't bother me. I'm going to use it regardless, I don't find enjoyment in just chasing the meta for a miniscule increase in the grand scheme. I've played Monk since Pandaria, and it hasn't always been good, but I've made it work since I adore the class. But I'm always up for more, cheers!
That’s true dude. I should just do the same.
terminally online twitter weirdos who roleplay as dark rangers but don't want to play as a ranged spec for some reason also some very loud ppl taking huge issue with the names of the warlock talents because they don't like satyr so much that they don't even want to have passive talents named after them idk man ppl really overestimate how much flavor these things are meant to have lol
Dark Ranger twitter profiles are frequently the most unhinged WoW profiles I've ever seen. It's wild because these aren't likely to be too end mythic raiders or PvPers so even if their hero spec is weak it isn't likely to impact them at all.
Bruh twitter role players don’t even do entry level mythic plus. These are people who queue random heroics and talk like they know shit.
As opposed to this sub which is definitely filled with Mythic raiders and not open world transmog farmers and LFR heroes
Fr. Who tf is saying no? Ive only seen "yes" and "more" for cosmetics. Iduno where theyre getting thier feedback but its the same dipshts that are saying people dont wanna play tuskarr. People for sure want playable tuskarr.
I think the main class I understand the argument for the most is Hunter. Marksmanship, especially. Both of its talent trees, being Dark Ranger and Sentinel, are magical. You can't avoid being rethemed into a magical aesthetic by your hero tree, at all. Survival and Beast Mastery _at least_ have Pack Leader. It forces the spec even _further_ away from the "Man with a bow" fantasy that it's already historically struggled to just stick to.
MM has had Arcane Shot as a core rotational ability since Vanilla. And that's not getting into all of the other magical abilities like Mend Pet, Hunter's Mark, Black Arrow, Sentinel, etc. There has never been a point in time where it hasn't been a mix of martial skill and magical ability because Hunter is based directly off the Ranger class from D&D.
I want more changes, what is the point if nothing change?
I want to visually be able to see the difference between two hero classes of the same spec
Man I wish we had MORE cosmetic changes.
Let people disable the cosmetic effects. Done!
Wtf ignore this feedback?!
What could this possibly be in reference to specifically I wonder? Everything I have seen so far visually looks incredible.
Any marksman hunter that isn't an elf or undead. My dwarf hunter with a gun and mechanical pet really doesn't want shadow magic, or an arcane owl.
Hell to the naw. Hero talents should have major impacts on the way our characters look, changing them to be more of whatever the theme is. If I’m frostfire Mage, I want red/blue everything.
Yeah right now that spell alone looks amazing. If you run fire mage and call down a meteor and then have comet storm smash shit as well it looks awesome even if the rotation feels slightly bloated, it at least looks cool.
Ever since I saw the mages (some mob in mop) with Blue fire. I dreamed of a blue fire quest similar of the green fire for Warlock
It seems like such an easy win as well. They *know* class flavor and customization is literally what everyone likes, it's nothing but bonus points. The worst thing is that the green fire questline was most likely an accident, Xelnath lobbied heavily for it.
If I don’t get a purple Power Word: Shield on my shadow priest I’m going to complain online SO HARD!!!
They should also get rid of Flash Heal & give us back Shadow Mend while their at it.
I would like to see more cosmetic changes, obviously done in a thoughtful and reasonable way. Glyphs or similar system could be used to change ability visuals, to give players a choice between different spell effects (similar to warlocks green fel fire). It would be great if we could have more thematic abilities better fitting race/class combos.
Yea, I got that feeling with the Hellcaller spec for warlock, which seems to completely ignore the destruction part.
Eh??? No I'm psyched as fuck
What is this feedback? Then while we’re at it let’s complain about specs. Shouldn’t the same people complaining about hero talents also complain about specs? How is this any different than picking destro over affli because of performance? Some people seriously just complain for the sake of it… Don’t limit visual effects, hell add even more.
This did happen at one point. People complained that specs were becoming "too distinct" from the base class. The end result was getting back a bunch of awful "base" abilities for all specs, like Death and Decay for all DK specs, Slice and Dice for rogues, etc. Absolutely one of the worst changes Blizzard has made.
This may be a small thing to be annoyed at but w/e Shado-Pan monk is stupid. Shado-Pan isn't a type of monk. It's an organization. A monk who's in the Shado-Pan would be a Blackguard, along with Warriors and others who are more physical. The Wu Kao branch would be assassin type Rogues along with Hunters and the Omnia branch would cover things like Monks who heal, Mages and Priests. Also there are no outsiders in the Shado-Pan so you would not see a Human Shado-Pan monk.
Thank you I’m a loser panda monk and have been for years. The shado pan branch is so dumb thematically I can’t believe their team pushed that up. The shado pan set should’ve stayed locked or became panda heritage armor as well. It’s like the only race specific cool thing pandaren had lol.
The flurry strikes are this lame purple burst that you barely notice as well. Lazy design
I mean Blizz even went as far as to include members of the Shado-pan as class hall followers in non-monk order halls.. Yalia Sagewhisper is a priest follower, Taoshi is a rogue follower.
I agree. Not one of my mains, but I have an alt monk so I get 15% of an opinion It would be like having SI:7 as a spec for rogues. The shado-pan are cool but their techniques should be cool abilities in the tree, not a spec in themselves. The shado-pan absolutely deserve more lore presence, but this way feels weird. I think they definitely could have a strong role to play on the expac as I understand it (as a faction that's sick and strong af with history fighting old god nonsense) and I hope they play to that in some other way
...an organization of monks, who fight with a specific fighting style. I wouldn't mind seeing it change or anything, but I don't see any real problems with it either.
Did u even read the comment? The Shado-Pan are NOT an order of monks. They are the protecting force of Pandaria who have all classes present including monks
Yes, and I disagree with it. Sure, sometimes the game made Shado Pan of other classes, but those were still monks. It's the same as how Anduin is still a priest, not a paladin, even though we see him wearing armor. Or how Tyrande can use a bow while also being a priest or how Maeive is a Warden that doesn't fit into any class neatly. The playable classes, as we know them, don't exist in-universe as strict rules. A monk can use a sword, or a bow, or magic, and still be a monk, because in-universe what makes a monk is their discipline and way of life more than their exact fighting style. The Shado Pan monks have a specific style and method (basically, ninjas) that they use when fighting. It makes just as much sense for a monk to be a Shado Pan monk as it does for a hunter to be a Sentinel, a warrior to be a Mountain Thane, or a druid to be a Keeper of the Grove. None of these are strictly related to the classes in question, and characters with those titles don't always strictly follow the rules of the associated classes, but they are all very closely related to the classes in question, and it would be very silly to say that a hunter can't be a Sentinel just because a lore Sentinel once used a warrior ability somewhere.
Ur just completely wrong tho, throne of thunder has shado pan npcs of all the classes, and one of the rogue hall npcs is a shado pan rogue. they literally aren't all monks and never have been lol
Did you not read what I wrote at all? The Shado Pan rogue in the rogue order hall is also a Shado Pan monk. The strict delineation of classes that the game enforces on us is just a gameplay conceit. It doesn't exist as strictly in the lore, so it's no problem for an NPC to be a monk that uses rogue abilities, or even for a character to call themselves a rogue while also being a monk. All Shado Pan are monks. Many of them also use abilities associated with other classes, and some even also identify as those classes (or more often, the game treats them as other classes for gameplay reasons). That doesn't change that they are still monks first, and those other things second.
No where the lore states that they are monks. They are described as the peace keeping force of the continent. The original members of the Shado-Pan were called the 100 warriors so even they weren’t called monks. You literally quest with members of the Shado Pan who are neither stealthy or monkish (mage, priest) You basically disagree something the game shows and tells you to be true
>No where the lore states that they are monks. Tbf in the same link you provided below quite literally mentions just that: Taran Zhu in the Vol'jin novel, which is canon hence [Tyrathan](https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/553793.jpg) from the novel, states that every member is a Monk when they become a member of the organization: >When a pandaren becomes fully Shado-Pan, the monk travels with one of the order's master artisans deep below the earth into the heart of the Kun-Lai mountains and marks out a little piece of the mountain's bones. The artisan then carves it into the monk's likeness, leaving it connected to the bone. When the monk dies, the statue breaks free. All such statues are gathered and stored in the Shado-Pan Monastery so that all may remember those who came before.
It's probably have to do more with Blizz not paying attention what goes in the books (remember Genn having a tail apparentely). The person above says every member of the Shado-Pan is a monk with "flavour" when there is no hard evidence for this. Especially when you look at the non monk members u meet like Taoshi for example. None of them use a single monk skill but they use the skills of their class (rogue, hunter, mage or priest). You can argue that they are monks in the sense of not the class but being actually a religious recluse of the Celestials but I don't think it holds. Characters such as Taoshi even joined the respective order hall and not the monk one.
I think he missed the point that they're monks in the sense that they've joined a monastery. Not the playable class Monks. Somone who joins the Shado-Pan would be a disciple aka a monk. Similar to how those who train at the Temple of the White Tiger would be considered Priests but are clearly Playable monks.
well…a lot of people missing it looking at my downvotes. I’m not sure what else u can do when the Shado-Pan literally have different cells for different playable classes who are in the game clearly not possess any monk class skills
But if u want more evidence: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Shado-Pan Literally tells u that the monks of the order are in the Blackguard cell while other classes make up other cells of the organisation.
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There's even an entire daily quest hub where you can select various Shado-Pan buddies with various classes to accompany you. You'd think there would be *someone* at Blizzard who remembers.
the cosmetic changes are the only interesting part of the hero talents, I sort of wish they'd scrap the gameplay mechanics and just add a lot of different visual glyphs for classes instead
Class fantasy in pve is dope. Bring back glyphs and just disable them for pvp. Do the fun thing, blizzard
wtf? I'm of the opposite complaint. I feel like they aren't doing enough cosmetically
As a Warlock-exclusive player here's my two cents (I'm fully aware it's the alpha, and thus extremely early to judge) : - Diabolist : perfect, top 3 across all classes. The gameplay is crisp and the visuals are amazing, nothing to say here. My nitpick is that it feels like demonology on steroids with destro not having much of a flavor other than the overfiend, which is why I wish it leaned into the "sacrifice demons to take their power" trope more. - Hellcaller : 6/10, the Satyr theme is positively surprising and amibitious, but I straight up expected some Nightmare influence, a proper combination of fire and shadow, like the VFX used by Xavius. Gameplay wise, the RoF spam fits the theme, and I'm a sucker for instant-cast gameplay. Haven't checked the Affli gameplay yet. Wither has yet to receive VFX so I'll chalk it up to work in progress. - Soul Harvester : by far the worst of the three, and possibly bottom 3 across all classes. Other than flavor text, there's just not much going on. The void revenant inhabiting your soul is pretty fun though, I wish it was semi-permanent, floating behind your back (kind of a stand from jojo). Malefic Rupture needs to go and never return.
I want all frost spells animations removed from my dk and instead have a cute little blue whelping that does my spells while my dk does the physical parts.
They were asked the question. Its not like blizzard is out of touch and just volunteered that information. There are a ton of players who don't want new cosmetic visuals. I think they should go crazy with new visuals and just have a toggle for traditional spell effects in the talent menu.
I'm more concerned about hero talents that don't change the class enough mechanically or visually
Y'all think if I keep commenting "GIVE ME A FUCKING INTERRUPT, YOU FASCISTS" on every TWW thread that they'll eventually listen to me?
Honestly, I get this, so many people are going to want to be a dark ranger or a rider of the apocalypse. If it turns out that these lose a fairly significant amount of damage, people won’t play them.
What? The cosmetic side of things from the new hero talents are by far and away the best part about them? Some of the stuff feels bloated but it looks like cool as shit when you are doing your rotations and such.
Man people will find anything to cry about... who cares if some visuala changed for an xpac? 99% of the time you dont even notice the animation during combat anyway
While I agree that it's a strange complaint, these aren't quite a single-expac feature. Hero Talents are here to stay for the foreseeable future.
Yeah ok but I think nothing is stopping them from making new lore to thematicalöy include orcs as dark eangers or whatever I mean its a made up story in the end and the writers went back and changed stuff many times. This is just next level entiltement from those complaining and expect developerd to take into account all views and opinions
Shaman ancestors are super boring like I don't want to see those things on my screen.
Who tf is telling blizzard people dont want cosmetic changes??? Who tf is telling them that people dont want tuskarr?? Where tf is blizzard taking thier surveys? Are they having em inhouse?? I know for a fact people want to play tuskarr. I am one of said people. I saw a tuskarr pali post recently and the top comment was saying they dont want tuskarr but every replay and literally every other comment was pro playable tuskarr.
Probably the same people saying they don't want Tinkers, even though there are some of us who are desperately keen for their addition. Saying it would "break their immersion" to see people playing as them, even though magical technology has been a part of Warcraft since literally forever. They'd rather other players miss out over something that barely affects them at all (see also: playable Tuskarr).
Who are those people?
In before honor talent changed effects all turn blue yellow to reflect azerite and the worldsoul
They just need to make new specs and stop meddling with the existing ones, ,make a new one, maybe give it an update or two over an expansion, and then leave it alone and move on!
Actually, after reading that, I'm more worried about that Dawnbreaker dungeon. Please not another Nokhud Offensive.
I think Wowhead should reconsider its choices for who/what journalists to post to their website. Game Rant is the sister site for Screen Rant and I know how bullshit Screen Rant journalists are and 100% expect the same from Game Rant. Their journalists know exactly how to write an article that makes the reader forget context and I don’t believe this article is a honest publication of the actual interview. Screen Rant is notorious for controversial takes, so don’t let Game Rants question of “some players don’t like the cosmetic class changes” bait you…
More interesting for me is the mention that hero talents will be an evergreen system. I wonder if they will continue to expand into specialized subclasses in future expansions, as opposed to adding new classes altgoether.
I still cant believe they didnt go for a shadow hunter hero tree
Make them in glyphs calligraphy desesperatly, need an other way making gold, than just outdated darkmoon cards.
In the sense of the super themed ones like Dark Ranger, or Sentinel, I understand. Those are just stupid. As well as mountain thane
Of all the complaints that I have seen about hero talents, this is the one I have never seen? Where did these come from? I thought the implemented visuals we've seen thus far were mostly positive.
[удалено]
You'll only be able to randomly summon some undead black dogs as of now.
“Aware” but they’re too far along to change the system so this will be an issue for the entirety of TWW because they lacked the foresight/ability to parse feedback into a better system
Yeah we need more cosmetic changes and options. Glyphs should make a huge comeback to give people those options. It would also be nice maybe as a general setting to let people set all spell effects to “normal” individually, so for instance, I could have cool effects that I see but maybe my party member who doesn’t want to see them, doesn’t. FFXIV has a way to reduce party effects since their spell effects can be kind of overwhelming. At the same time, their effects are pretty cool because of that I think.
I kind of want to choose to just be a retribution paladin… I don’t want to be a Templar of the Unstoppable Holy Decimaters of everything and anything.
How does that happen unintentionally? They have a few years of experience with this game.
I just want my active pets to match my beast companion and my dire beast everytime even even I change my active pet without having to go to the stables.
This is so disappointing. When they announced Hero Talents, I was hoping we were getting more ways to play our class, not just amplifications what we already do that fits within our class fantasy. Hero talents would be the perfect space to explore new avenues such as allowing certain spec Druids to be a a Nightmare or Firelands based Druid. Why limit us to expansion of more DoT/Hot playstyle that we’ve already had since the class was announced? Why not then go whacky with it, eventually, and do a crazy mix where by maybe Alliance Druids are able to quasi mix in the Light with their Ferall abilities and you get these crazy Paladin like Feral cats. It’d be amazing to see a system where players could actually choose how they want to play their class in a way they want to see fit, not with whatever Blizzard has for their direct class fantasy, and then endlessly expanding upon that for years to come. Hero Talents could finally be that system to allow the player that level of customization. I know the most common criticism to this would be the learning curve to it all, but the reality is that with dragon flight talents, you’d need to account for all these variations and know what each class does. As far as Hero Talents are concerned, it’s a much smaller tree, and if players really need that clarity of knowing what they are up against, place a buff on the player (that can’t be removed of course) that tells everyone what hero talents they have. A monk with Shado-Pan talents would have a buff that states “Shado-Pan” etc. Come blizzard, do it. Give me that scarlet crusade holy monk. Give me that Demon Hunter that can eat demons and absorb their essence to change the game play. Give me that nightmare or firelands druid. Give me that time based arcane mage, or healing fire mage using cauterizing to heal. There’s soooo much potential in this system.
conceptually the whole point of the hero talents is to give you some special cosmetic flair so there's no chance in hell they are gonna add something to take that flair away again. terminally online twitter weirdos will have to learn to deal with it. like its no more disruptive to your "class fantasy" than if you get a trinket that summons some adds or does a spell effect you don't like the look of lol. that's just how wow is tho and how its literally always been. u dont hear ppl losing their shit when they get a trinket that summons a frog or smth and have them go "DAMN IT MY GUY ISNT MEANT TO BE A FROG SUMMONER". deal with it the frog does good dps.
I really don't see how these are truly evergreen like they say. These feel a lot more like gimmicks than anything.
Meanwhile I'm over here thinking Shado-Pan doesn't do much cosmetically and left me wanting more than the 1 animation it's seemingly offering - if anything I would've expected to see Sha or Lightning/Wind, given Shaohao and Xuen's influence lorewise; or even Shadowy undertones given the capstone quite literally deals Shadow magic plus the secret orders ingame presence. If anything the organization of Monks (moonlighting other classes) only seems to be reflected in talent names, while the talents themselves is just every stat minus Indestructible and Block. The design works, it will probably be strong, but thematically aesthetically mechanically it's quite lacking; I find myself more hyped for the WW talent rework than the Hero Talents tbh.
WoW is still so behind the times it's pitiful. For a company that espouses "class fantasy" and says "we'll do this/that eventually", they just never get out of their own way. Ffs it's 2024, the game is 20 years old this year. And to this day my Paladin who has been getting in life or death battles since Vanilla can't even have a scar put on his face without completely changing his face and ethnicity, or have glowing golden eyes as he's become more and more powerful as expansions progressed.
So basically this means the opposite of what most the community actually wants or expected, they have zero plans to make hero specs add lots of cosmetic flavor lmao. Seems like blizzard is already phoning in the excuses early for what’s going to extensionally just be boring extra talent rows divided up and labeled to appear like something they aren’t.
Yeah, some of the hero trees are a bit more race-specific than others. Marksman hunter basically is forced to pick between being an undead elf or a night elf. One warrior tree is specifically dedicated to being a dwarf. I myself feel like hero trees were a mistake. They should have either just given us more talent points to choose from or added a few new talents to the trees.
I agree and disagree. I think hero talents are really cool and I like the idea especially because some of them come with some cosmetic changes. But I think you're right that they shouldn't be named the way they are. I'm a Warrior main and Colossus and Slayer are fine because they are unspecific to anything in lore. But it would feel very strange being a Mountain Thane on my Farraki skinned Troll... I think ones like Mountain Thane, Dark Ranger and Sentinel should be changed to something less lore significant. I'm not even an RP'er but even for me it feels a bit off.
Yep. I think everyone's seeing hero tree hate and not looking at what my actual complaints are. I just want more race agnostic hero specs. I don't want to have to change my class aesthetic if I like how it is now. I saw some stuff (granted it might not be final) on alpha testing that your hero spec will also visually change some of your other abilities (not the ones added specifically in the hero tree)
Forced? Really?
I mean you can play a different spec. You can't just not pick a hero tree. Marksman is forced to pick between being a dark ranger (which is specifically an undead blood elf thing) or a sentinel (which is specifically a night elf thing)
This forced thing is all in your head and its getting annoying how people abuse the word "forced" at the slightest change. This is just getting absurd judt because a hero tree is themed around a dark ranger does not suddenly "force" you to play an undead this is just ridiculous and sorry to say but stupid
Dawg there's literally no other options for marksman that aren't elf themed. I can just play BM or survival but how the fuck is an orc marksman gonna just have either black arrow or a sentinel owl?
It's covenants all over again. "We hear you but also shit the fuck up cause we're just gonna release them" , oh and no shaman changes"
Not totally disagreeing but at least they aren’t locking you into a hero talent lol
Give me leafy green plants growing everywhere I step like a fucking disney princess, OR GIVE ME DEATH!
"Dont worry, we will get rid of all visual effects and never give you cosmetic hero classes"-them probably My concern is they are taking away the wrong message, we WANT the cosmetic change,we just want to choose and control it outside of forced gameplay.