Tanked scarlet monastery at lvl 25, died in 0 seconds to a three-pack of fanatics. They hit with their ability and melee at the same time for double my health.
Because you have dipshits at Level 20, that have about 20% of their class queueing heroic because "i thought scaling would Take Care of this". Its Always demon Hunters too. Yeah No Shit the boss 2 taps you you have ABOUT 15 PERCENT PHYSREDUCTION AND NOTHING ELSE YOU IDIOT.
Sorry i might have gotten a little frustrated in my Dungeon experience :))))))
I did with lvl 20 and 7k.found a way.just stand in platform in front of boss. Yes don't go bottom middle. Pull boss , when boss tries to cast swirl fire , all people should jump down to middle.
Was running normal dungeons leveling with some buddies. I'm playing tank, I'm in discord with the healer, and one of the dps. We played 3 dungeons with me starting at about level 37, and both them much lower. Those three dungeons the healer mentioned he had to heal me like once a dungeon.
I ticked over level 40, all of a sudden I'm just getting randomly blasted for like 90% of my HP, having troubles keeping aggro, and just in general shit just random as hell, with one pack me taking no dmg, then the next I get railed. It was that way the rest of the night.
So with a partied tank/healer, we went from cruising to all of a sudden crawling, and it's not like either of us started playing drastically differently all of a sudden. Something is just super fucked with scaling.
Just had the exact same experience. Dinged 40 and my dps went to the toilet and I'm losing threat to a level 13. Mobs suddenly demolishing my hp bar, and bosses have 1mil hp (when I'm doing sub 1k dps single target).
I'm sure it will get tuned quickly though, because this is pretty nutty lol
This is actually the normal scaling they use for non-current expansion leveling. When TWW releases and the 60-70 bracket is made available in old content, this fucked up 60-70 scaling is what every alt will go through before they can enter TWW zones. It basically HAS to be fixed now before the next expansion releases or leveling alts will be fucked and suddenly dragonflight mobs will be stronger than TWW mobs.
Scaling is weird and uneven overall. As a healer some trash mobs make me go full piano mode because the tank is just going down *that* fast, and then I'll sit and dps on the boss because the tank's leech is enough to keep em up.
Actually this isn't a broken system, just a bad one. The scaling is exactly the same as it always has been since it was added to old content for leveling. Old content just uses different scaling than current content, which is why leveling BEFORE current expansion content always gets janky with scaling and you feeling so much weaker near the end.
Pandarias scaling is that same scaling for old content. Now we just get to see how bad it gets when it's allowed to scale above level 60. This horrid scaling is also the fate of leveling when The War Within is released and DF content has its scaling system changed to this. It basically has to be fixed now or leveling alts during TWW will be hell in the 60-70 level bracket.
Ok so I wasn't imagining things when healing my group in NM and HM dungeons at lvl 30 XD.
Honestly I'm having fun, though, so I won't complain about getting chain-wiped on some trash sneezing on us :)
Damn, I fell for it :/ but yeah hope they'll bring some of that overpowered feeling ^^ at the moment it feels pretty much just like being decent equipped to undergeared in raids
Tank here, I got overkilled by 16 million on Jin'rok in Throne of thunder from an unavoidable tank mechanic
On another note scaling can be wrong the other way too, in the goblin scenario my rocket boots were hitting for 15 million on impact.
I like how the whole point of leveling up should be that your character becomes stronger, but with scaling it either feels like the difficulty is always the same or you actually become weaker over time.
Yeah I just did raids and felt way squishier and useless than yesterday. Part of that is because I didn’t do any gearing at 70 through Heroic Dungeons tho. Just jumped right into Raid with leveling gear. Why are we surprised we’re getting one shot lol?
I kinda feel like leveling in WoW needs a massive revamp. Currently, I kinda don't see the point in leveling at all. It happens way too fast with too many buttons being introduced way too quickly. At the same time it doesn't actually teach you how to play your class in the endgame because scaling makes it so easy you can just do whatever you want and still hit 70 without learning.
The only thing I enjoy throughout the leveling is reading quests and looking at environments, but if you are a person who doesn't find WoW quest writing engaging enough then you have no reason to go through it at all. It's kinda like a 10-hour-long chore that is there only to sell level boosts at this point in my opinion.
69 on boomie and having the same experience. I was doing the Cloud Serpent daily quests and some of the mobs were using unavoidable, uninterruptible attacks that were hitting for like half my HP. It's feeling really, really bad.
at level 70 atm I got 584k life, the bomb thing in the rising sun dungeon, the first boss, does 8 million damage, its unavoidable. so yeah I do think something wonky is going on with scaling
At level 69, I was dps on this fight. I popped all my defensives a monk can have. Mistweaver monk did everything they could. Still took 3.7 mill dmg. That was with both the big dmg reduc and the brew. Monk bubble. Karma. Idk if monk heals can do dmg reduc on target tho
How much other damage was pheromones doing? The point of this mechanic is I believe someone has to handle it properly and if they dont pass it around to proper targets then it deals increasing damage up to 100%. If this is the first tick you took, then yeah its a scaling issue but if its one instance of this high of damage sounds like someone isn't handling the mechanic properly.
There is scaling issues in Heroic Scenarios as well. On Thunderbrew the torch guys dot was doing something in the vein of 80k a tick.
Each one applies that dot and it’s completely unavoidable. Even in a tank spec you would melt in moments actually fighting.
It’s still killable because of the gem stuns, though.
I am not sure 60+ was particularly well tested, there are issues all over.
I just did this one on my 70 brew. Was with 2 lvl 18s that didn't know what they were doing. The second miniboss thing was so tough when they were alive. Ended up soloing the final guy bc they wouldn't do mechanics. Took me awhile. If it wasn't for the lady healing puddle, I couldn't have done it.
We were talking about this in my guild yesterday. I know OG that knows what's going on and said basically the first person he puts pheromones on and doesn't attack to it levels to that person so everybody else in the raid will get hit you need to put the tanker whoever's hitting them as the lowest level person get a low level tank to beat this mechanic
Kinda
I finished my heroic scenarios achievement (at 45) and ngl had a few horrible runs where we (ret pal/MM monk and BM Hunter) needed to take a break, and reset the last fight like 7 times
But also we had other scenarios where everything was going soo smoothly
The scaling is really bad for some fights
We just finished HoF Normal, had major issues with scaling for Garalon and Shekzeer. Pheromones were done by level 35 Mage, no issues. Didn’t even notice the damage. Rest of the group blasted the boss. Make sure to play rest of the fight properly though. As for Shekzeer, all ranges 65+ switched to Melee as Cry of Terror instakills and doesn’t target Melees. 😊 Good luck everyone!
Definitely scaling, any unavoidable mechanics was deleting me in Dungeons and Scenarios (70) that lower level folks were living through relatively easy.
Seems to also work in the inverse as external mechanics used to damage enemies can 1-shot them, or the Windweaver gem giving my party members 1k Haste at low levels.
I hit 65 as a tank and went from chain pulling 2-3 packs at a time to getting annihilated by single packs. A pug healer tried to kick me for being "braindead" then I got a nice message at the end of the dungeon https://imgur.com/a/t3bnkb2
Last boss heart of fear is impossible. Each cry will one shot the raid if they’re 70 before you go into the shield. One cry kills one shield, meaning you’ll have a cry without a shield which will wipe the raid. Kinda done until I can even do the raids I guess lmao
playing brewmaster monk as a tank at 70, single pulls put me immediatly in red stagger and nothing i do can make it go down. bosses delete me. i hope they do a tuning pass soon
We ran into the exact same issue. But Pheremones were not transferred on death, so the tanks just kept taunting him while backtstepping. Easiest kill ever XD
[Hotfix just came out](https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-fixing-high-level-boss-abilities-doing-double-damage-in-mop-remix-341102) addressing the double damage. While I'm glad they changed it I don't think it was just bosses but like... almost everything. And even so, the mobs hitting like, 8 millions at 70 are still going to do 4 million. It isn't matter of double damage but too much damage to begin with.
Just did siege of niuzao temple heroic at 45, 2nd boss is hitting for 2-3k and my wife's holy priest's heal heals for 2.3k on a 2.4s cast time.
This is with 0 stacks of the speed up buff too, the heroic dungeon tuning is suuuuper wacky
You mean the boss who’s mechanic is kite him through slowing circles that give him a stacking damage taken buff? You ignoring a mechanic and the scaling being broken are different things.
You know he charges a random player, right? That charge was oneshotting people.
Note I said "no stacks of his buff" which implies we were kiting him through the puddles.
But the charge does not 1 shot the ranged dps... the issue with that boss is that he hits the tank hard if you don't kite him.
If you are dying as a ranged dps that fight you are dying to avoidable damage. Taking ticks of the whirlwind after charge
Then a new issue shows up after 65 where the ground effects tick for the whole health bar.
Yeahhh scaling is completely out of wack higher levels I'd be insanely surprised and disappointed if there's not changes on next reset to remedy this. You get one-two hit form virtually any mechanic or just mob autos at 70. Absolutely insane.
I've collected like 35k (ish) and I'm 56 but... I already completed 3 achievements for the rings/trinket (thay means running heroic scenarios and dungeons) and 2 zone meta achievements
So my bronze is really good for those rewards but its not far for what I talked with some guildies
Seen many people get hit for millions. Me included. There was a normal mob out in the wild that insta killed me. Was supposed to do 45k damaged based on the tooltip and did a million.
Reminds me of those old wow private servers you could pay money to have vip and get crazy abilities and they would start you in mount hyjal. Not that i ever played that it was illegal. *clears throat*
The problem is most active mitigation just brings your damage taken down by 20-50%, and when they are hitting for 4 million, and you have 300,000 life, that mitigation doesn’t help.
If I see one more “hey this brand new game mode that’s been live for 24 hours has a problem with it” post I’m going to have an aneurism. OBVIOUSLY ITS NOT INTENDED. The game is barely playable past level 60. Remix is meant to cover the content drought of season 4 to hold over until prepatch. It’s a MAJOR investment in the game. Blizz isn’t going to just say “haha f*** you guys sucks to suck.” Give them more than two minutes to work on the thing.
scaling is broken past 65. expecting a lot of hotfixes :D
Doing heroics at 70 and getting oneshot by a lot of stuff while the level 30 guys face tank everything is pretty funny
Yeah this, I was being one shot by a few mobs, made the last few levels so much slower to get
Scaling is broken below that as well. Scenariobosses take longer to kill than DF raidbosses. Heroic dungeons feel overtuned as well.
Tanked scarlet monastery at lvl 25, died in 0 seconds to a three-pack of fanatics. They hit with their ability and melee at the same time for double my health.
Is that what’s happening? I was watching every tank get destroyed by those guys. Hopefully they’re quick with the fixes
Glad it's not just me. 100k damage (with defensives up) in 0.5 seconds. I had 64k health
There’s an offensive dispell to do to greatly reduce their damage, for that one specific pack before the second boss.
Because you have dipshits at Level 20, that have about 20% of their class queueing heroic because "i thought scaling would Take Care of this". Its Always demon Hunters too. Yeah No Shit the boss 2 taps you you have ABOUT 15 PERCENT PHYSREDUCTION AND NOTHING ELSE YOU IDIOT. Sorry i might have gotten a little frustrated in my Dungeon experience :))))))
The scaling is just broken there’s in no world that a tank should be 2 tapped from a basic mob hitting them
If they have 12% phys reduction from Armor for fucking Sure. Also remember: Heroic. Its totally fine and easy on normal
We're you my healer when the dh tank was raging?
Yep. Aint No way i can heal 120%hp in 1 Second on day 1
the fanatics are just overtuned relative to literally every other pull in the place, it's nothing to do with level
I did with lvl 20 and 7k.found a way.just stand in platform in front of boss. Yes don't go bottom middle. Pull boss , when boss tries to cast swirl fire , all people should jump down to middle.
Was running normal dungeons leveling with some buddies. I'm playing tank, I'm in discord with the healer, and one of the dps. We played 3 dungeons with me starting at about level 37, and both them much lower. Those three dungeons the healer mentioned he had to heal me like once a dungeon. I ticked over level 40, all of a sudden I'm just getting randomly blasted for like 90% of my HP, having troubles keeping aggro, and just in general shit just random as hell, with one pack me taking no dmg, then the next I get railed. It was that way the rest of the night. So with a partied tank/healer, we went from cruising to all of a sudden crawling, and it's not like either of us started playing drastically differently all of a sudden. Something is just super fucked with scaling.
Just had the exact same experience. Dinged 40 and my dps went to the toilet and I'm losing threat to a level 13. Mobs suddenly demolishing my hp bar, and bosses have 1mil hp (when I'm doing sub 1k dps single target). I'm sure it will get tuned quickly though, because this is pretty nutty lol
This is actually the normal scaling they use for non-current expansion leveling. When TWW releases and the 60-70 bracket is made available in old content, this fucked up 60-70 scaling is what every alt will go through before they can enter TWW zones. It basically HAS to be fixed now before the next expansion releases or leveling alts will be fucked and suddenly dragonflight mobs will be stronger than TWW mobs.
Scaling is weird and uneven overall. As a healer some trash mobs make me go full piano mode because the tank is just going down *that* fast, and then I'll sit and dps on the boss because the tank's leech is enough to keep em up.
It's been so weird. Thankfully people are more understanding then not. I have gotten the occasional "wtf healer".
Yeah seems like once you hit 65, it gets hard. 50-60 I heard is sweet spot for farming bronze in raids, so much so to just raid log
What does it mean to raid log?
Raid log is just to log into a character, do the raid, and log off until next weekly reset
Daily reset for remix
That includes regular retail WoW/DF, but only the Pandaria raids.
Actually this isn't a broken system, just a bad one. The scaling is exactly the same as it always has been since it was added to old content for leveling. Old content just uses different scaling than current content, which is why leveling BEFORE current expansion content always gets janky with scaling and you feeling so much weaker near the end. Pandarias scaling is that same scaling for old content. Now we just get to see how bad it gets when it's allowed to scale above level 60. This horrid scaling is also the fate of leveling when The War Within is released and DF content has its scaling system changed to this. It basically has to be fixed now or leveling alts during TWW will be hell in the 60-70 level bracket.
Ok so I wasn't imagining things when healing my group in NM and HM dungeons at lvl 30 XD. Honestly I'm having fun, though, so I won't complain about getting chain-wiped on some trash sneezing on us :)
They just posted about fixing one where some instance abilities were doing double damage. Plenty more coming I'm sure.
The advertisement said overpowered was no problem, turns out it was for the enemies.
Damn, I fell for it :/ but yeah hope they'll bring some of that overpowered feeling ^^ at the moment it feels pretty much just like being decent equipped to undergeared in raids
Scaling post 65 just seems broken right now, if you're not a tank, good luck. hell, for some of the mechanics, being a tank isn't enough.
Tank here, I got overkilled by 16 million on Jin'rok in Throne of thunder from an unavoidable tank mechanic On another note scaling can be wrong the other way too, in the goblin scenario my rocket boots were hitting for 15 million on impact.
Yes that is by far the easiest heroic one to do right now lmao. There’s a quest for a heroic scenario too
Good to hear. I’m 68 on mage right now and the last few levels of questing has been such a struggle
I like how the whole point of leveling up should be that your character becomes stronger, but with scaling it either feels like the difficulty is always the same or you actually become weaker over time.
Yes but remember hitting 70 isn’t end game. We will scale and grow much much stronger if you’re raiding.
When raids literally one shot you and the whole raid for 5x your hp (HoF empress boss), you aren’t left with many chances to scale up
Yeah I just did raids and felt way squishier and useless than yesterday. Part of that is because I didn’t do any gearing at 70 through Heroic Dungeons tho. Just jumped right into Raid with leveling gear. Why are we surprised we’re getting one shot lol?
Blue gear adds hardly any stats so not missing much
I kinda feel like leveling in WoW needs a massive revamp. Currently, I kinda don't see the point in leveling at all. It happens way too fast with too many buttons being introduced way too quickly. At the same time it doesn't actually teach you how to play your class in the endgame because scaling makes it so easy you can just do whatever you want and still hit 70 without learning. The only thing I enjoy throughout the leveling is reading quests and looking at environments, but if you are a person who doesn't find WoW quest writing engaging enough then you have no reason to go through it at all. It's kinda like a 10-hour-long chore that is there only to sell level boosts at this point in my opinion.
69 on boomie and having the same experience. I was doing the Cloud Serpent daily quests and some of the mobs were using unavoidable, uninterruptible attacks that were hitting for like half my HP. It's feeling really, really bad.
at level 70 atm I got 584k life, the bomb thing in the rising sun dungeon, the first boss, does 8 million damage, its unavoidable. so yeah I do think something wonky is going on with scaling
Just use defensives dude
At level 69, I was dps on this fight. I popped all my defensives a monk can have. Mistweaver monk did everything they could. Still took 3.7 mill dmg. That was with both the big dmg reduc and the brew. Monk bubble. Karma. Idk if monk heals can do dmg reduc on target tho
Did you try using more defensives?
Ran out of time lol
Just play paladin
Funny thing is, ice only seen like 2 paladins and they were holy lol
ah damn yeah you right, I should'v thought of that!
They hotfixed boss abilities doing double damage just now, so we only need to figure out how to survive 4mill. Easy
My group had to use the grounding tinker to survive the bomb once and barely killed the boss.
how are you already lvl 70? get a life
Ah it’s been just over 24 hours, probs some hot fixes coming over the next week
We got around the scaling issues by having the lowest level player in our raid group always be the one to pull the boss.
How much other damage was pheromones doing? The point of this mechanic is I believe someone has to handle it properly and if they dont pass it around to proper targets then it deals increasing damage up to 100%. If this is the first tick you took, then yeah its a scaling issue but if its one instance of this high of damage sounds like someone isn't handling the mechanic properly.
This was initial tick on the pull.
Sounds like a scaling issue. Wow head reports similar problem with shekzeer as well.
There is scaling issues in Heroic Scenarios as well. On Thunderbrew the torch guys dot was doing something in the vein of 80k a tick. Each one applies that dot and it’s completely unavoidable. Even in a tank spec you would melt in moments actually fighting. It’s still killable because of the gem stuns, though. I am not sure 60+ was particularly well tested, there are issues all over.
I just did this one on my 70 brew. Was with 2 lvl 18s that didn't know what they were doing. The second miniboss thing was so tough when they were alive. Ended up soloing the final guy bc they wouldn't do mechanics. Took me awhile. If it wasn't for the lady healing puddle, I couldn't have done it.
We were talking about this in my guild yesterday. I know OG that knows what's going on and said basically the first person he puts pheromones on and doesn't attack to it levels to that person so everybody else in the raid will get hit you need to put the tanker whoever's hitting them as the lowest level person get a low level tank to beat this mechanic
Yeah the scaling is absolutely horrible.
Heroic scenarios are unplayable.
Kinda I finished my heroic scenarios achievement (at 45) and ngl had a few horrible runs where we (ret pal/MM monk and BM Hunter) needed to take a break, and reset the last fight like 7 times But also we had other scenarios where everything was going soo smoothly The scaling is really bad for some fights
We just finished HoF Normal, had major issues with scaling for Garalon and Shekzeer. Pheromones were done by level 35 Mage, no issues. Didn’t even notice the damage. Rest of the group blasted the boss. Make sure to play rest of the fight properly though. As for Shekzeer, all ranges 65+ switched to Melee as Cry of Terror instakills and doesn’t target Melees. 😊 Good luck everyone!
Sounds like a blast finding workarounds! Well done!
Definitely scaling, any unavoidable mechanics was deleting me in Dungeons and Scenarios (70) that lower level folks were living through relatively easy. Seems to also work in the inverse as external mechanics used to damage enemies can 1-shot them, or the Windweaver gem giving my party members 1k Haste at low levels.
I hit 65 as a tank and went from chain pulling 2-3 packs at a time to getting annihilated by single packs. A pug healer tried to kick me for being "braindead" then I got a nice message at the end of the dungeon https://imgur.com/a/t3bnkb2
There’s been alot of moments where everything was fine when fighting a mob, then suddenly my health bar is gone
Last boss heart of fear is impossible. Each cry will one shot the raid if they’re 70 before you go into the shield. One cry kills one shield, meaning you’ll have a cry without a shield which will wipe the raid. Kinda done until I can even do the raids I guess lmao
Which raids don't scale down to sub 70, throne of thunder and siege, or just siege?
Siege starts at 60, tot at 50
playing brewmaster monk as a tank at 70, single pulls put me immediatly in red stagger and nothing i do can make it go down. bosses delete me. i hope they do a tuning pass soon
yeh just played a hc dungeon got placed a bomb on me instandly 7.2mil dmg XD, unplayable if i wasnt playing paladin
We ran into the exact same issue. But Pheremones were not transferred on death, so the tanks just kept taunting him while backtstepping. Easiest kill ever XD
Did rising sun and the sabotage on the first boss was a one shot unless you had a cd. The scaling not working makes a lot of sense.
[Hotfix just came out](https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-fixing-high-level-boss-abilities-doing-double-damage-in-mop-remix-341102) addressing the double damage. While I'm glad they changed it I don't think it was just bosses but like... almost everything. And even so, the mobs hitting like, 8 millions at 70 are still going to do 4 million. It isn't matter of double damage but too much damage to begin with.
I’m only like lvl 25 but every time I do Temple of the jade serpent on the 3rd boss her dots truck me. No other boss even scratches me.
Just did siege of niuzao temple heroic at 45, 2nd boss is hitting for 2-3k and my wife's holy priest's heal heals for 2.3k on a 2.4s cast time. This is with 0 stacks of the speed up buff too, the heroic dungeon tuning is suuuuper wacky
Scaling is fine 40-60. It feels great! Issue is 60-70
Did it in the mid 30s and was getting one shot by the second boss. No stacks of his buff.
You mean the boss who’s mechanic is kite him through slowing circles that give him a stacking damage taken buff? You ignoring a mechanic and the scaling being broken are different things.
You know he charges a random player, right? That charge was oneshotting people. Note I said "no stacks of his buff" which implies we were kiting him through the puddles.
The charge doesn’t 1 shot you. We aren’t talking about that. We are talking about the boss meleeing the tank.
We are in fact not talking about the boss meleeing the tank. It's my anecdote, and I was talking about the charge one shotting our ranged DPS.
But the charge does not 1 shot the ranged dps... the issue with that boss is that he hits the tank hard if you don't kite him. If you are dying as a ranged dps that fight you are dying to avoidable damage. Taking ticks of the whirlwind after charge Then a new issue shows up after 65 where the ground effects tick for the whole health bar.
The whirlwind one shotting people is not good scaling. That's the point. Is it avoidable? Yes. Should it one shot someone? Absolutely not.
The whirlwind is avoidable damage. Don’t stand in fire.
Yeahhh scaling is completely out of wack higher levels I'd be insanely surprised and disappointed if there's not changes on next reset to remedy this. You get one-two hit form virtually any mechanic or just mob autos at 70. Absolutely insane.
Maybe that's why they released on the 16th so they can get some quick feed back and fix it for patch day. Or maybe hotfix it this weekend.
How many hours does it take to reach lvl65? (and how much bronze can be collected collected in that time?)
I've collected like 35k (ish) and I'm 56 but... I already completed 3 achievements for the rings/trinket (thay means running heroic scenarios and dungeons) and 2 zone meta achievements So my bronze is really good for those rewards but its not far for what I talked with some guildies
Seen many people get hit for millions. Me included. There was a normal mob out in the wild that insta killed me. Was supposed to do 45k damaged based on the tooltip and did a million.
Last night, we had our lowest-level member (35) do it, and they held it for the entire fight, with the raid practically taking no damage.
Don't get hit
The scaling is a bit weird. That being said I do have over 360k hp as a rogue at 70 and I know this does keep growing with more thread picked up.
its meant to be fun, why are we complaining....
Scaling is broken
Reminds me of those old wow private servers you could pay money to have vip and get crazy abilities and they would start you in mount hyjal. Not that i ever played that it was illegal. *clears throat*
Isn't mop in the era of active mitigation? So for some abilities you have to "counter" it with a cd or get one shot?
The problem is most active mitigation just brings your damage taken down by 20-50%, and when they are hitting for 4 million, and you have 300,000 life, that mitigation doesn’t help.
It’s all retail abilities
I meant maybe they left the mech in
Why did they even add level scaling. Ugh. Ruins the game.
[удалено]
Level scaling is not fun. Wtf are you smoking.
I like the bare concept. Play anywhere you want with whoever you want. It's just such a pain to implement well.
If I see one more “hey this brand new game mode that’s been live for 24 hours has a problem with it” post I’m going to have an aneurism. OBVIOUSLY ITS NOT INTENDED. The game is barely playable past level 60. Remix is meant to cover the content drought of season 4 to hold over until prepatch. It’s a MAJOR investment in the game. Blizz isn’t going to just say “haha f*** you guys sucks to suck.” Give them more than two minutes to work on the thing.
Use personals
Ill just Icebound Fortitude the 16 million overkill, that way ill just be overkilled by 8 million
AMS my guy