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I mean, it's exactly what I expected. Season 1 tier sets are usually boring cuz it makes it easier to balance with all of the new systems and shit that comes with a whole new expansion
This *almost* made sense as an argument for dragonflight season one. The only new system for this expansion is hero talents and, at least for my class, it doesn't change much about the gameplay. These tier sets are boring as hell and there's no reason for it.
I'm kinda willing to believe that they want simple tier sets in the first patch simply because they want to do fancier, more powerful sets later rather than risk players wearing old tier.
That is what I am thinking too. I remember back in legion where windwalker monks would wear the nighthold 2p up until antorus hc because it was so good (also there were 6 set peices so you could go 4/2 but that is a different thing)
There's just so many more things they could do that are more interesting than "thing does % more damage for 8 seconds." Like, at least demon hunter has a cooldown reduction on their tier set. Cooldown reduction is fun. Skill X also triggers Skill Y is fun. Why can't they make fun tier sets?
I mean this mostly lines up with S1 of Dragonflight. Start conservative. Really simple. Try to avoid forcing certain talents. After reworks and hero talents settle, S2 will be more adventurous. S3 will push the boundaries and half of classes will love it and the other half will hate it.
S1 Dragonflight for Demo was some of the best gameplay the spec ever had. Imp Gang Bosses, 3 Dogs, and 4pc giving Demonbolts a solid chance at making HoG instant cast.
Prot Pally's DF S1 is good too in my opinion. Sure it is bland as far as it impacts your rotation etc, but I like the idea of dropping 6% (now 8% in S4?) Versatility on an Ally every now and again.
It can be complex and still not force a talent.
I always loved s2 shadow tier, which did highly suggest a certain talent for apparition damage, but it's not forcing a specific capstone or casted ability like other tiers.
It also requires a weak aura to track better but I loved optimizing it for my rotation.
The tier I hate are the ones that are like "pick this talented ability or else this does nothing for you"
But just don't give us tier bonuses at all at that point. If they're not going to make them interesting, leave them out entirely.
All these weak bonuses do is give us the annoyance of being unable to break tier set during the next season unless season 2 2-sets are that much better.
If they want hero talents to shine and therefore are making tier bonuses into literally just passives that don't change up your gameplay, let hero talents shine completely by themselves.
I'm genuinely impressed. They managed to make a 4-set bonus for a Tank spec that doesn't do anything to actually help you Tank whatsoever.
I mean, I get it's Beta, so it's likely unfinished and not done. That's cool, I understand. But I feel like it's a bit silly that the 4-set bonus for a Tank doesn't really help your role.
The Aug bonus is bounds and leaps ahead of anyone else's, it's a 30% DPS increase, I hope his gets tuned before release so we don't just get hammered with nerfs.
I don't mind the 4 set. I can't recall how often I had the debuff wear off but if you're in ST and can weave the bombs in between your mongoose bite windows it's pretty much a straight 10% damage increase to all your big mongoose bite hits.
It's....maybe not too interesting but it sounds okay? Most of the tier sets sound okay. Nothing changes the rotation too much which might be good considering we'lre playing around with hero talents at the start and figuring all that out.
I cringed when I read the Hunter set. Was not expecting much but oh man..
First issue: this is toddler levels. Just remove the sets again if this is it.
Second issue: SV still will be all about wildfire bombing yourself and spamming raptor strike..
Jesus! The three Hunter specs are so lame it feels like a simpleton made them to have something to play..
Also MM set.. They wont get me to spam arcane shot while weaving in aimed shot. Tried that build for 3 min and wanted to kill myself.
These are surprisingly boring and safe.
That was the rationale for the same boring-and-safe bonuses in Dragonflight S1, as a consequence of turning talents on its head with the Talent Tree rework. Perhaps they're using the same logic with Hero Class talents even if they aren't as wild.
They said S1 sets will be tied to Hero Talents, so it means they weren't able to do it (not surprising, considering the state of some of those trees) so they went for some quick, safe and boring bonuses
I'm pretty sure that statement was made in reference to the set designs. Like the Warrior tierset is very clearly "Mountain Thane," Hunter's is "Pack Leader," etc.
For the classes I play I'm content with. I'd rather take safe and boring than a couple specs be absurd and the rest meh. Some more creative touches would've been nice though.
That's because you can't have a tier set dictating you very exactly what hero spec and talents you must take. They sucked ass at doing that in DF at least as a warrior most of the tier sets made it very obvious that you needed to play a specific build or you'd suck ass.
“Casting a Holy Power ability increases the damage and healing you deal during your next Avenging Wrath by 0.5%. This effect stacks.”
New Rextroy one shot video in 3… 2… 1…
We've had one shadowbolt, yes! But what about second shadowbolt??
We have shadowbolt at home.
If you don't have homemade shadowbolt, store-bought is fine.
They’ve added new buttons to demo (which already had way more than destro), and yet still want us to cast shadow bolt all the time. I’m getting mixed signals here.
They're nerfing Core Generation immensely (too much imo; at least let Dreadstalkers keep 100% Core Generation chance) but still haven't successfully made Shadow Bolt an *interesting* ability to cast. Though Rune of Shadows reducing its cast time by 25% is definitely a welcome talent addition I also feel like it's strictly necessary in ST and AoE given how few Cores you're gonna get.
I would love a Mastery rework where instead of increasing demon damage by 3x% it increases demon damage by 2x and gives SB+DB an X% chance to summon a Wild Imp.
E.g. old Mastery is +45% demon damage. New mastery would be +30% demon damage and +15% chance for a Wild Imp on those casts.
At least then your most filler abilities have an instant-reward proc chance and can be kinda exciting. Right now SB is about as boring as Arms' Slam but gets used way way more.
Watch next, they'll remove the Felguard/Wrathguard and replace it with a Doomguard that casts, you guessed it, Shadowbolt.
Seriously Blizzard, if you get rid of my Kizgorath, I will mail you venomous spiders.
If Phoenix Flames had a 100 second cooldown (please Blizz no this is not an idea) then that might almost be interesting. Might knock a couple of seconds off before it was up again?
But at 25 seconds and with [From the Ashes](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=342344/from-the-ashes) and [Fiery Rush](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=383634/fiery-rush) and [Phoenix Reborn](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=453123/phoenix-reborn) existing it does basically nothing?
I like the Arcane 4pc. I am not sure how well it will work in an actual numbers game, but I think the instant 4 charges off arcane barrage will feel nice, especially in an aoe environment.
Am I blind or are the 2pc and 4pc for windwalker currently the same thing? It looks fun for sure. Just curious what the actual second half of the bonus is.
As a Hunter since vanilla, Hunter seems to get the least cool tier set armor compared to other classes.
This is probably a personal preference but all the other ones seem bigger, more intricate, or have more cool glowy stuff. Even for other physical classes like warrior or rogue get cooler glowier sets then hunters on average.
Since vanilla, I feel like I am always coveting other classes tier sets. I damn near do a backflip when Hunter has a cool Teir set.
One of the best Teir sets for Hunter is from Shadowlands. The Castle Nathria set is one of the coolest Hunters have ever gotten.
[https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/935906.jpg](https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/935906.jpg)
After seeing a few other colors of the hunter set, I like it a bit more than my initial reaction but still not quite as cool as the others.
Good thing I have several alts so I don't need to covet those sets as much anymore.
I'm tired of pieces being made from feathers and bones. It doesn't feel that epic to me. It feels more like I'm a scavenger or a rodent (which many of my friends say Hunters are, so..).
Right, there are more types of hunter than ones in the woods.
Why don't we get more gunslinger type sets or animal theme sets.
To elaborate a bit more on the animal sets:
Blizz, Make us look more like the animals we hunt, not just a head armor and call it a day. We could look like more Dragons, Panthers, Bears, Mammoths, Owls, Eagles, Crocolisks, Apes, Sharks, Turtles, Wind Serpents, etc....
Most of the time they just slap an animal on the shoulders or helm. I want to almost look like the animal almost like I am disguised as one while I'm hunting them. Obviously the proportions should be relative to the race of the character and not the animal but they would be so much cooler if they did it this way.
You will receive more animal bits stapled to your armour and you're gonna like it. The well had one theme in it and it's already dry, there's nothing else we can do, sorry.
Windwalker and Arkan Mage sounds amazing. Tiger Palm finally has a usecase in aoe and is not just a "give combo point" gdc waste (in terms of dmg). Arkan mage can be a gattling gun in tww. Orbs spawn + insta recharge spells? Sounds fun.
Most of the rest is a bit boring but its season 1 thats normal. Feral at least has some fun. Prot pala can maybe burst high risk with good timing and Evoker heal sounds like blossum is back (not yea...). Lets see what hero talents will change but Overall i think Monk and Mage gets the best atm.
Feral might be pretty fun. Between the bear and resto hero talents and mangle/rip/shred shifting you to bear/cat there could be a lot of play styles available. The tier set looks sweet too.
Just want to remind everyone that it's very normal for the S1 bonuses to be quite basic and low power gain. This has always been the case the last few expansions, where the S2 and S3 bonuses get increasingly more powerful and more interesting.
I have an idea as to why this is, and I think it makes sense. They want to avoid you feeling like S2 or S3 tier sets are a downgrade in fun, or power to the S1 set.
We all remember losing legendaries from legion into BFA and it felt awful. As we progress through the expansion, each new set of borrowed power needs to be better than the last so we can avoid that feeling of being downgraded, and for technical reasons they have made it clear they don't want you to feel like you need to run 2pc/2pc. Setting the bar low for the first season solves these issues.
Furthermore, with hero talents and class changes blizzard just doesn't know for sure what emerging gameplay will be. Imagine if they made a tier set revolved around an ability you don't want to talent. Warlocks saw this with channel demonfire in s2. Making the S1 set more basic and core to the class abilities likely helps avoid those scenarios.
Not really a fan of these % damage increases. It could just be part of the base class tuning. They should add tier sets that change up your rotation and the way the spec feels. These tier bonuses are just glorified main stat. Very lame.
This is pretty common for Season 1 tier sets. They're going to want to let the hero talents shine solo for a bit before they add something to change things up.
Wow that mistweaver one is real bad for M+. Literally might as well not even have a set bonus.
Preservation is looking pretty spicy though.
Lots of safe set bonuses. Kinda boring on the whole but the hero talents should make up for it on the whole.
Double healing on one of our primary healing sources? I’m also sort of assuming it would apply to our echos and potentially golden hour.
Seems pretty good to me.
It does not apply to echoes, it does not apply to golden hour (nothing applys to golden hour) and reversion is only a "primary source of healing" when we get a tierset that buffs it a shit ton, otherwise its a crappy button
If it applied to echo then it would be overpowered as fuck (our current tier is 50% buff with not 100% uptime, this is 200% active for the whole duration of the hot) and would force us into spamming echo reversion and basically nothing else for another patch, which would be shit
As it works currently its just shitty and does nothing, which is still better gameplay than if it echoed
Well that’s unfortunate. I assumed it would at least work on echo. Maybe that’s a bug? I know a lot of the talents on alpha weren’t working correctly.
If not, rip.
As i said, if its intended to echo its absurdly overtunned. But most likely they made it by copy-pasting call of ysera which works almost the same and also doesn't echo
Warrior dev mentioned that to make it more appealing they are buffing it's damage and giving it more talents to interact with it so we'll have to wait and see.
With the addition of hero specs you have to have bland tier sets otherwise you might force people to play a specific hero spec. DF was very much guilty of that for some classes and specs, the tier set forced you into a very specific build.
Although a bit boring it’s completely understandable since most rotations and kits will change priorities or how they work slightly through hero talents being introduced and adjusted
I’m curious to see how holy priest works in Season 1 because the current iteration literally never casts heal or prayer of healing. You MIGHT cast heal in a very specific niche/talent build, and the only time you cast prayer of healing is in raid to try and lower the cd on your holy word: sanctify. im not gonna shit on it yet, because idk what holy priest looks like in S1, but if jts similar to what we do now…thats fucking utterly useless as a 4pc bonus.
Seems like a repeat of S1 Dragonflight, which was intentionally more safe because of new talents, so I guess the logic here is to give the Hero Talents the same grace period of tuning.
Edit: Oh, it was exactly that [Set bonus blue post](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-the-war-within-season-1-class-sets/1870471).
Windwalker 4pc is looking at 150% at max stacks while there's an upcoming talent [Martial Mixture](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=451454/martial-mixture) giving 120%, curious to see how much damage the Tiger Palms would be in AoE - with ofc [Shadowboxing Treads](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=392982/shadowboxing-treads?spellModifier=137025) + [WDP](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=152175/whirling-dragon-punch) + [KotBT](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=451859/knowledge-of-the-broken-temple) carrying Martial Mixture there.
Just curious to know if the damage is high enough to warrant the more "taboo" stuff, like using Blackout Kick multiple times in a row in AoE (w/ Shadowboxing Treads) or canceling Fists of Fury to use WDP faster with those talents....
The Monk 4pc, is that counting multiple blackout kicks from things like shadowboxing (blackout kick strikes multiple targets) as one melee ability or multiple?
I feel like the tier sets are pretty bland due to hero talents, I think with a bunch of new gameplay mechanics coming into effect, they didn’t wanna make tier sets affect gameplay too much, not while we’re still coming to grips with hero talents.
I remember the thrill of going for 8 piece blood fang, getting it and proc'ing that cool leech buff. Turning into a tiger from the ZG fist weapons was also a raid pleaser. Different days.
Ww 4 piece sounds cool, but with chi wave not generating chi and expel harm being bound to tiger palm strike you're literally Incapable of playing around it. Still sounds cool, but it can't change the play style in any meaningful way.
Tier 1 bonuses are usually boring and safe, and these are no exception. This has been the case in most of WoWs life. They are usually things like "Rotational ability crits 5% more often." or "Rotational ability does 6% more damage." Part of this is because they're still tuning the base rotations in the first patch, so they don't want the sets adding complexity to that math. And then you also have the other side of it which is that having boring sets means the set bonuses don't have to be reworked in the middle of beta if the designers take a spec back to the drawing board.
Is it fun? No. But there's a reasonable logic to it.
Chill bro. Season 1 of DF was the same. It’s in the best interest of the first season to have relatively simple tier sets so they can focus on ensuring class reworks and hero talents (the core part of play) are working right and fun. Then they’ll get more exciting with season 2 tier sets (borrowed power part of play). This is a smart approach for blizzard.
These all seem like placeholders lol.
As someone who only cares about tier for the cooll new appearances though idc in the slightest about what they do lol
The way I read it is that the 2pc bonus only lasts 10 seconds. Reworked Predator talent increases TF by a further 5 seconds, but it sounds like the tier bonus will be independent of that.
I'm honestly ok with this so long as they continue working on hero talents, which are effectively going to be our big fun bonuses at the start. We can get frisky with the sets in S2 onward.
It makes sense for these bonuses to be 'safe' because they're still going to be on the seesaw of balancing hero talents at the same time. IDK why people expected anything different for the first tier of a new expansion that contains multiple major class changes. We're already getting major playstyle changes with hero talents, slapping even more on there with tier sets that add more complexity to rotations would be overwhelming to balance properly.
The pres one is looking good. Really looking forward to playing pres chronowarden. REversions. Reversions everywhere.
Makes sense why all the sets are really simple as they are probably trying to gage hero talents power still and how complex they are in the rotations first.
I'm pretty sure these are super simple because they wanted to see where hero talents landed, they said in interviews that tier might be flexible on hero talents later which would be weird but interesting
Boring mostly, but hey, I'd prefer solid and boring to awful ones. Just glad the Ret one isn't crusading strikes oriented, I'm very much wanting to return to Templar in TWW.
Does anyone know if your progress in the beta will carry over to the official release or is it a separate thing? I assume it's separate but if it carries over I might get started sooner
As a healer I am not remotely a fan of % chance set bonuses when they’re basically just a crap crit chance. As a healer I really don’t even like crit at all, generally. Healing should feel purposeful and intentional - not based on “could maybe do more” type stuff.
Something like the old old Holy Priest tier set where prayer of mending healing has a chance to (effectively) buff your next heal or prayer of healing to make its cast time 20-40% faster and cost the same less mana is good. It was a convenience, especially when you were trying to build and spend that buff with your own kit anyway.
Something like “they sometimes do more healing” is so rubbish. You should choose the spell that matters for that situation and circumstance. It should be reliable.
Holy Paladin’s is okay to me but only if they actually fix the holy power spenders to actually feel meaningful in the first place where the booster WoG etc feels like “damn that was a nice bump up in the bar so now they’re not in danger of dying and I can get to other stuff for a moment before I worry about them again”.
Is thier a limit to how much you can stack the prot pally 4 piece or are we gonna get dumb videos of a prot pally tossin a Capt america shield and one shotting a world boss?
IDK if the appearances were leaked beforehand but damn Rogues and Priests are eating good on their sets. Rogues getting Ethereal drip and Priests almost look like Paladins, reminds me of Judgment hood almost.
The preservation evoker set is utter garbage... With the current hero talents, neither reversion nor blossom seem like they will be more than fillers spells. Legit ~1% healing increase from 2+4 set...
They pull the much-needed elemental shaman balance pass into the 2pc set. What could go wrong when the season changes and the class gets less power?
What a choice.
I don't get this : [Death Knight Unholy 11.0 Class Set 4pc](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=453632/death-knight-unholy-11-0-class-set-4pc) - When you summon a minion, your Haste is increased by 2%, up to 8% for 8 sec.
As UH, you are supposed to resummon your pet each time the cool down is up ?
At least it doesn't force frostmages into glacial spike. That's my only gripe with this expac. I don't mind GS, it's pretty satisfying, but constantly building tier sets around it is getting tiresome.
Although a bit boring it’s completely understandable since most rotations and kits will change priorities or how they work slightly through hero talents being introduced and adjusted
I assume these are boring/bland because they didn't want to accidentally make a tier set bonus that locks you into a specific Hero Talent Tree. So they likely just said - what abilities are used in both Hero Trees and then buffed them as a baseline for all specs, rather than trying to get too clever and accidentally make it so that a specific Hero Talent Tree is dead on arrival because of how it does or doesn't interact with tier.
Personally, I think they could have still been creative with these with that restriction in mind, but I at least understand where they're coming from. Hero Talents are one of the big XPAC selling points, so I'm sure they're being conservative so that people have the freedom to actually use both of their Hero Talent Trees.
That said, if Season 2 tier is just as boring as these, they need to have a real conversation about the role and purpose of Tier in the Hero Talent era.
I mean, we get it you don't want to force talent choices in the first tier set bonuses.
But shit, could you have at least made them "sound" interesting. Frost DK is like "just keep doing what you do, and you'll do more damage".
How about instead of a 5% damage increase you have 3PPM that does something visual that adds on 5% damage. You are still doing nothing, but you look good doing it. Like DK could throw a ghost at the baddy or Mage could shoot a laser from the eye on their hat.
"When you heal with Binding Heal or Flash Heal, the cast time of your next Heal or Prayer of Healing spell is reduced by 20% and mana cost reduced by 20%. Stacks up to 2 times. Lasts 20 sec."
In other words, it's an old version of Holy Words from before Shadowlands.
Could still be a typo or other mistake, of course.
These are extremely boring, dull, and uninspiring. The excuse for it being the first tier so they can't make fun/unique bonuses is poor. The warlock ones specifically, regardless of numerical tuning in the end, are downright laughable. First iteration of things so it could change, but these are all super boring.
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Could have saved so much screen real estate by : All classes: Increase damage or healing by 5% when using main ability.
You forgot the 4pc: Increases damage by other abilities by 10% after using main ability
I mean, it's exactly what I expected. Season 1 tier sets are usually boring cuz it makes it easier to balance with all of the new systems and shit that comes with a whole new expansion
*Laughs in balance druid DF S1 Bonus*
Hey, cut it out with your reasonability and logic! * equips grieftorch and griefpitchfork *
So why they never balance?
This *almost* made sense as an argument for dragonflight season one. The only new system for this expansion is hero talents and, at least for my class, it doesn't change much about the gameplay. These tier sets are boring as hell and there's no reason for it.
I'm kinda willing to believe that they want simple tier sets in the first patch simply because they want to do fancier, more powerful sets later rather than risk players wearing old tier.
That is what I am thinking too. I remember back in legion where windwalker monks would wear the nighthold 2p up until antorus hc because it was so good (also there were 6 set peices so you could go 4/2 but that is a different thing)
There's just so many more things they could do that are more interesting than "thing does % more damage for 8 seconds." Like, at least demon hunter has a cooldown reduction on their tier set. Cooldown reduction is fun. Skill X also triggers Skill Y is fun. Why can't they make fun tier sets?
Hero talents are extremely transformative to most specs
Enhance shaman 4p sounds OP as fuck lol
Yes, yes it does…😈
Shhhhhhh! Blizz might detect fun. It's against the TOS for Shamen.
I mean this mostly lines up with S1 of Dragonflight. Start conservative. Really simple. Try to avoid forcing certain talents. After reworks and hero talents settle, S2 will be more adventurous. S3 will push the boundaries and half of classes will love it and the other half will hate it.
S1 Dragonflight for Demo was some of the best gameplay the spec ever had. Imp Gang Bosses, 3 Dogs, and 4pc giving Demonbolts a solid chance at making HoG instant cast. Prot Pally's DF S1 is good too in my opinion. Sure it is bland as far as it impacts your rotation etc, but I like the idea of dropping 6% (now 8% in S4?) Versatility on an Ally every now and again.
It can be complex and still not force a talent. I always loved s2 shadow tier, which did highly suggest a certain talent for apparition damage, but it's not forcing a specific capstone or casted ability like other tiers. It also requires a weak aura to track better but I loved optimizing it for my rotation. The tier I hate are the ones that are like "pick this talented ability or else this does nothing for you"
But just don't give us tier bonuses at all at that point. If they're not going to make them interesting, leave them out entirely. All these weak bonuses do is give us the annoyance of being unable to break tier set during the next season unless season 2 2-sets are that much better. If they want hero talents to shine and therefore are making tier bonuses into literally just passives that don't change up your gameplay, let hero talents shine completely by themselves.
They did that and people bitched about not having tier sets.
Except prot warrior. Which is somehow even worse and less damage uptime than that. Awesome work!
I'm genuinely impressed. They managed to make a 4-set bonus for a Tank spec that doesn't do anything to actually help you Tank whatsoever. I mean, I get it's Beta, so it's likely unfinished and not done. That's cool, I understand. But I feel like it's a bit silly that the 4-set bonus for a Tank doesn't really help your role.
More dmg = more ignore pain. Also more dmg = the tank that gets picked for keys (unless double sigil utility). I will take all the dmg I can get.
The Aug bonus is bounds and leaps ahead of anyone else's, it's a 30% DPS increase, I hope his gets tuned before release so we don't just get hammered with nerfs.
I mean, maybe wishful thinking here but some of these are so generic they feel like placeholders
It's done on purpose to keep it easy to tune against entirely new systems
>Wildfire Bomb damage increased by 5%. Calm down Blizz don't make this shit *too* interesting
I don't mind the 4 set. I can't recall how often I had the debuff wear off but if you're in ST and can weave the bombs in between your mongoose bite windows it's pretty much a straight 10% damage increase to all your big mongoose bite hits. It's....maybe not too interesting but it sounds okay? Most of the tier sets sound okay. Nothing changes the rotation too much which might be good considering we'lre playing around with hero talents at the start and figuring all that out.
Doing m+ content and you entire tier set gives you like 1,5% dmg in aoe is truly a fucker
I cringed when I read the Hunter set. Was not expecting much but oh man.. First issue: this is toddler levels. Just remove the sets again if this is it. Second issue: SV still will be all about wildfire bombing yourself and spamming raptor strike.. Jesus! The three Hunter specs are so lame it feels like a simpleton made them to have something to play.. Also MM set.. They wont get me to spam arcane shot while weaving in aimed shot. Tried that build for 3 min and wanted to kill myself.
Hows ur day going man?
LMAO
These are surprisingly boring and safe. That was the rationale for the same boring-and-safe bonuses in Dragonflight S1, as a consequence of turning talents on its head with the Talent Tree rework. Perhaps they're using the same logic with Hero Class talents even if they aren't as wild.
tbh first tier set bonuses are basically always rather tame.
They said S1 sets will be tied to Hero Talents, so it means they weren't able to do it (not surprising, considering the state of some of those trees) so they went for some quick, safe and boring bonuses
That was very likely a mistranslation error and should have been clarified weeks ago. It was doubtful they'd be tied to hero talents the whole time
I'm pretty sure that statement was made in reference to the set designs. Like the Warrior tierset is very clearly "Mountain Thane," Hunter's is "Pack Leader," etc.
Not really all that surprising since as you said they did the same in dragon flight for talent trees. Just this time it’s for hero talents.
For the classes I play I'm content with. I'd rather take safe and boring than a couple specs be absurd and the rest meh. Some more creative touches would've been nice though.
I know tire sets are popular…but I kinda like not getting pidgeon-holed into certain traits just because of a tier set.
Thas exactly what they're doing
That's because you can't have a tier set dictating you very exactly what hero spec and talents you must take. They sucked ass at doing that in DF at least as a warrior most of the tier sets made it very obvious that you needed to play a specific build or you'd suck ass.
These are surprisingly boring for sure
yeah. the season 1 tier bonuses don't really need to be rotation changing because the rotations are going to be new on account of the changes
“Casting a Holy Power ability increases the damage and healing you deal during your next Avenging Wrath by 0.5%. This effect stacks.” New Rextroy one shot video in 3… 2… 1…
Prot Pally main since tbc, I love this 4pc. You're gonna be getting stacks like crazy, wings is gonna be cracked as fuck lmao.
That's also cool because if you need to hold cds for some reason it won't be so feelsbadman.
[удалено]
Yes but for the first pull you will need to hit the dummies for 30 mins before the key because the stacks dont reset on key start /s
They're just serving him easy content on a silver platter at this point.
Please blizzard, I don’t want to cast shadow bolt
You'll cast shadowbolt and you'll like it.
Back in my day we were lucky to get even one shadowbolt!
Back in my day Shadowbolt was a fucking nuke
We've had one shadowbolt, yes! But what about second shadowbolt?? We have shadowbolt at home. If you don't have homemade shadowbolt, store-bought is fine.
They’ve added new buttons to demo (which already had way more than destro), and yet still want us to cast shadow bolt all the time. I’m getting mixed signals here.
They're nerfing Core Generation immensely (too much imo; at least let Dreadstalkers keep 100% Core Generation chance) but still haven't successfully made Shadow Bolt an *interesting* ability to cast. Though Rune of Shadows reducing its cast time by 25% is definitely a welcome talent addition I also feel like it's strictly necessary in ST and AoE given how few Cores you're gonna get. I would love a Mastery rework where instead of increasing demon damage by 3x% it increases demon damage by 2x and gives SB+DB an X% chance to summon a Wild Imp. E.g. old Mastery is +45% demon damage. New mastery would be +30% demon damage and +15% chance for a Wild Imp on those casts. At least then your most filler abilities have an instant-reward proc chance and can be kinda exciting. Right now SB is about as boring as Arms' Slam but gets used way way more.
TBC, PTSD
Watch next, they'll remove the Felguard/Wrathguard and replace it with a Doomguard that casts, you guessed it, Shadowbolt. Seriously Blizzard, if you get rid of my Kizgorath, I will mail you venomous spiders.
I can drain soul and still get to shoot shadow bolts
You are not excited to finally turret cast shadow bolts?
Blizzard please I'm sick of having a purple dress, hood and spider arms
Oh boy a 10% chance to refund 1% of Phoenix flames' CD
Why the hell does that even exist lmao. In a 10 minute fight you may get one extra phoenix flames.
No way that's the correct value. It's most likely 10% or 100% (i.e. 10% chance of refunding 1 full charge).
well if its consistent you need to cast 1000 phoenix flames to get one refunded which you wont do during an entire raidclear including trash
probably a typo and it is 10% reduced CD
If Phoenix Flames had a 100 second cooldown (please Blizz no this is not an idea) then that might almost be interesting. Might knock a couple of seconds off before it was up again? But at 25 seconds and with [From the Ashes](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=342344/from-the-ashes) and [Fiery Rush](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=383634/fiery-rush) and [Phoenix Reborn](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=453123/phoenix-reborn) existing it does basically nothing?
God dam priest whoever is making the priest set please work on other tier sets
Am I the only one who thinks the priest set looks like a mostly ripped off Void-Elf heritage armor set?
Kinda but since dragon flight priest been getting the best transmog ever
Are you talking about the looks or the effect? I couldn’t care less about the looks but the set effect for holy is just so boring.
I like the pally set
The priest set is good, but the pally set also kinda slaps. The DK set looks dumb as fuck, though. At least the helmet does.
I like the Arcane 4pc. I am not sure how well it will work in an actual numbers game, but I think the instant 4 charges off arcane barrage will feel nice, especially in an aoe environment.
They're keeping the lottery going lol now you'll beg for that crit even more!
Windwalker sounds fun. I do like the resto shaman one. Spending Tital Waves procs always felt good and I enjoyed that healing.
Am I blind or are the 2pc and 4pc for windwalker currently the same thing? It looks fun for sure. Just curious what the actual second half of the bonus is.
it said something different earlier. I can't quite remember but it shows the 4 set bonus for both now.
Oh they fixed it. 2pc is tiger palms buffs next melee ability by 5%
Brew crying in the shower
Yeah they look simple and safe, I can totally understand the reasoning. It's best for them to focus on tuning with hero talents.
As a Hunter since vanilla, Hunter seems to get the least cool tier set armor compared to other classes. This is probably a personal preference but all the other ones seem bigger, more intricate, or have more cool glowy stuff. Even for other physical classes like warrior or rogue get cooler glowier sets then hunters on average. Since vanilla, I feel like I am always coveting other classes tier sets. I damn near do a backflip when Hunter has a cool Teir set. One of the best Teir sets for Hunter is from Shadowlands. The Castle Nathria set is one of the coolest Hunters have ever gotten. [https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/935906.jpg](https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/935906.jpg) After seeing a few other colors of the hunter set, I like it a bit more than my initial reaction but still not quite as cool as the others. Good thing I have several alts so I don't need to covet those sets as much anymore.
I'm tired of pieces being made from feathers and bones. It doesn't feel that epic to me. It feels more like I'm a scavenger or a rodent (which many of my friends say Hunters are, so..).
Right, there are more types of hunter than ones in the woods. Why don't we get more gunslinger type sets or animal theme sets. To elaborate a bit more on the animal sets: Blizz, Make us look more like the animals we hunt, not just a head armor and call it a day. We could look like more Dragons, Panthers, Bears, Mammoths, Owls, Eagles, Crocolisks, Apes, Sharks, Turtles, Wind Serpents, etc.... Most of the time they just slap an animal on the shoulders or helm. I want to almost look like the animal almost like I am disguised as one while I'm hunting them. Obviously the proportions should be relative to the race of the character and not the animal but they would be so much cooler if they did it this way.
You will receive more animal bits stapled to your armour and you're gonna like it. The well had one theme in it and it's already dry, there's nothing else we can do, sorry.
Right, they phone it in super hard with hunter, and in some cases with a whole expansion worth of set armor.
looks like some WoD leveling set tbh
Windwalker and Arkan Mage sounds amazing. Tiger Palm finally has a usecase in aoe and is not just a "give combo point" gdc waste (in terms of dmg). Arkan mage can be a gattling gun in tww. Orbs spawn + insta recharge spells? Sounds fun. Most of the rest is a bit boring but its season 1 thats normal. Feral at least has some fun. Prot pala can maybe burst high risk with good timing and Evoker heal sounds like blossum is back (not yea...). Lets see what hero talents will change but Overall i think Monk and Mage gets the best atm.
Feral might be pretty fun. Between the bear and resto hero talents and mangle/rip/shred shifting you to bear/cat there could be a lot of play styles available. The tier set looks sweet too.
Just want to remind everyone that it's very normal for the S1 bonuses to be quite basic and low power gain. This has always been the case the last few expansions, where the S2 and S3 bonuses get increasingly more powerful and more interesting. I have an idea as to why this is, and I think it makes sense. They want to avoid you feeling like S2 or S3 tier sets are a downgrade in fun, or power to the S1 set. We all remember losing legendaries from legion into BFA and it felt awful. As we progress through the expansion, each new set of borrowed power needs to be better than the last so we can avoid that feeling of being downgraded, and for technical reasons they have made it clear they don't want you to feel like you need to run 2pc/2pc. Setting the bar low for the first season solves these issues. Furthermore, with hero talents and class changes blizzard just doesn't know for sure what emerging gameplay will be. Imagine if they made a tier set revolved around an ability you don't want to talent. Warlocks saw this with channel demonfire in s2. Making the S1 set more basic and core to the class abilities likely helps avoid those scenarios.
Not really a fan of these % damage increases. It could just be part of the base class tuning. They should add tier sets that change up your rotation and the way the spec feels. These tier bonuses are just glorified main stat. Very lame.
This is pretty common for Season 1 tier sets. They're going to want to let the hero talents shine solo for a bit before they add something to change things up.
Generally, tier 1 sets always are lackluster. Easier to tune around new hero talents if they are just % based
Shadow bolt :)
Really dull.
Wow that mistweaver one is real bad for M+. Literally might as well not even have a set bonus. Preservation is looking pretty spicy though. Lots of safe set bonuses. Kinda boring on the whole but the hero talents should make up for it on the whole.
Preservation 4p looking like a pile of crap
Double healing on one of our primary healing sources? I’m also sort of assuming it would apply to our echos and potentially golden hour. Seems pretty good to me.
It does not apply to echoes, it does not apply to golden hour (nothing applys to golden hour) and reversion is only a "primary source of healing" when we get a tierset that buffs it a shit ton, otherwise its a crappy button If it applied to echo then it would be overpowered as fuck (our current tier is 50% buff with not 100% uptime, this is 200% active for the whole duration of the hot) and would force us into spamming echo reversion and basically nothing else for another patch, which would be shit As it works currently its just shitty and does nothing, which is still better gameplay than if it echoed
Well that’s unfortunate. I assumed it would at least work on echo. Maybe that’s a bug? I know a lot of the talents on alpha weren’t working correctly. If not, rip.
As i said, if its intended to echo its absurdly overtunned. But most likely they made it by copy-pasting call of ysera which works almost the same and also doesn't echo
Yeah exactly. I looked at mw sets and said: well I won't have to collect setbonuses.
Damn they are trying so hard to make bloodthirst worth using without ever letting it actually deal any damage itself
Warrior dev mentioned that to make it more appealing they are buffing it's damage and giving it more talents to interact with it so we'll have to wait and see.
Enhancement 4p looks wild. Overlapping wolves incoming
I lost when I saw the paladin set
Ngl demon hunter looks awesome 👏
Vanilla latte from Starbucks has more flavor and personality than these set bonuses
With the addition of hero specs you have to have bland tier sets otherwise you might force people to play a specific hero spec. DF was very much guilty of that for some classes and specs, the tier set forced you into a very specific build.
Although a bit boring it’s completely understandable since most rotations and kits will change priorities or how they work slightly through hero talents being introduced and adjusted
I’m curious to see how holy priest works in Season 1 because the current iteration literally never casts heal or prayer of healing. You MIGHT cast heal in a very specific niche/talent build, and the only time you cast prayer of healing is in raid to try and lower the cd on your holy word: sanctify. im not gonna shit on it yet, because idk what holy priest looks like in S1, but if jts similar to what we do now…thats fucking utterly useless as a 4pc bonus.
Seems like a repeat of S1 Dragonflight, which was intentionally more safe because of new talents, so I guess the logic here is to give the Hero Talents the same grace period of tuning. Edit: Oh, it was exactly that [Set bonus blue post](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-the-war-within-season-1-class-sets/1870471). Windwalker 4pc is looking at 150% at max stacks while there's an upcoming talent [Martial Mixture](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=451454/martial-mixture) giving 120%, curious to see how much damage the Tiger Palms would be in AoE - with ofc [Shadowboxing Treads](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=392982/shadowboxing-treads?spellModifier=137025) + [WDP](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=152175/whirling-dragon-punch) + [KotBT](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=451859/knowledge-of-the-broken-temple) carrying Martial Mixture there. Just curious to know if the damage is high enough to warrant the more "taboo" stuff, like using Blackout Kick multiple times in a row in AoE (w/ Shadowboxing Treads) or canceling Fists of Fury to use WDP faster with those talents....
The Monk 4pc, is that counting multiple blackout kicks from things like shadowboxing (blackout kick strikes multiple targets) as one melee ability or multiple?
I feel like the tier sets are pretty bland due to hero talents, I think with a bunch of new gameplay mechanics coming into effect, they didn’t wanna make tier sets affect gameplay too much, not while we’re still coming to grips with hero talents.
Every damn time a new tier set comes out Priest looks amazing and Shaman is meh at best. Finally a Druid tier set that actually looks good too
I remember the thrill of going for 8 piece blood fang, getting it and proc'ing that cool leech buff. Turning into a tiger from the ZG fist weapons was also a raid pleaser. Different days.
Ww 4 piece sounds cool, but with chi wave not generating chi and expel harm being bound to tiger palm strike you're literally Incapable of playing around it. Still sounds cool, but it can't change the play style in any meaningful way.
Even the Felguard gets annoyed at us having to cast shadow bolt.
Most of them looks they could be balance adjustments rather than tier sets, really disappointed.
Tier 1 bonuses are usually boring and safe, and these are no exception. This has been the case in most of WoWs life. They are usually things like "Rotational ability crits 5% more often." or "Rotational ability does 6% more damage." Part of this is because they're still tuning the base rotations in the first patch, so they don't want the sets adding complexity to that math. And then you also have the other side of it which is that having boring sets means the set bonuses don't have to be reworked in the middle of beta if the designers take a spec back to the drawing board. Is it fun? No. But there's a reasonable logic to it.
holy garbage man. Wtf I am reading. Creativity on level of kindergarten.
Chill bro. Season 1 of DF was the same. It’s in the best interest of the first season to have relatively simple tier sets so they can focus on ensuring class reworks and hero talents (the core part of play) are working right and fun. Then they’ll get more exciting with season 2 tier sets (borrowed power part of play). This is a smart approach for blizzard.
IMO they should cook tiersets for classes that are basically un touched and have dog water hero talents. (hunters, shaman)
You can make tier set bonus that are simple and don't affect hero talents but are also fun. Most of these bonuses might as well not exist.
Demonology mains in shambles
These all seem like placeholders lol. As someone who only cares about tier for the cooll new appearances though idc in the slightest about what they do lol
I now see why they changed Tiger's Fury uptime lol.
The way I read it is that the 2pc bonus only lasts 10 seconds. Reworked Predator talent increases TF by a further 5 seconds, but it sounds like the tier bonus will be independent of that.
Yeah but if they weren't changing TF uptime from almost 100% as it is now it's just permanent crit in keys and I guess they didn't like that idea
I'm honestly ok with this so long as they continue working on hero talents, which are effectively going to be our big fun bonuses at the start. We can get frisky with the sets in S2 onward.
It makes sense for these bonuses to be 'safe' because they're still going to be on the seesaw of balancing hero talents at the same time. IDK why people expected anything different for the first tier of a new expansion that contains multiple major class changes. We're already getting major playstyle changes with hero talents, slapping even more on there with tier sets that add more complexity to rotations would be overwhelming to balance properly. The pres one is looking good. Really looking forward to playing pres chronowarden. REversions. Reversions everywhere.
Boring, but that's to be expected.
Warrior tier set colors have really missed the mark again, just like with the most recent set
Makes sense why all the sets are really simple as they are probably trying to gage hero talents power still and how complex they are in the rotations first.
I'm pretty sure these are super simple because they wanted to see where hero talents landed, they said in interviews that tier might be flexible on hero talents later which would be weird but interesting
Boring mostly, but hey, I'd prefer solid and boring to awful ones. Just glad the Ret one isn't crusading strikes oriented, I'm very much wanting to return to Templar in TWW.
So like DF season 1, they are being conservative on season 1 tier set bonuses due to new system. I kinda get it.
Does anyone know if your progress in the beta will carry over to the official release or is it a separate thing? I assume it's separate but if it carries over I might get started sooner
Why even include them of they’re going to be this boring and worthless
As a healer I am not remotely a fan of % chance set bonuses when they’re basically just a crap crit chance. As a healer I really don’t even like crit at all, generally. Healing should feel purposeful and intentional - not based on “could maybe do more” type stuff. Something like the old old Holy Priest tier set where prayer of mending healing has a chance to (effectively) buff your next heal or prayer of healing to make its cast time 20-40% faster and cost the same less mana is good. It was a convenience, especially when you were trying to build and spend that buff with your own kit anyway. Something like “they sometimes do more healing” is so rubbish. You should choose the spell that matters for that situation and circumstance. It should be reliable. Holy Paladin’s is okay to me but only if they actually fix the holy power spenders to actually feel meaningful in the first place where the booster WoG etc feels like “damn that was a nice bump up in the bar so now they’re not in danger of dying and I can get to other stuff for a moment before I worry about them again”.
Hmm brewmaster is actually good just increase the DR to 6-8%
Warrior armor looks like a lame reskin of a dragonflight intro armor. I’m extremely disappointed by how it looks.
Enhance 4p could be fun with getting a ton of dogs with lightning hero talent
The shaman ones are hideous.
They all look kinda ugly
The first tier of every xpac tends to have boring tier sets, but damn blizz
Blizz has this weird obsession with making the first tier of each expansion the most boring "X dmg increased by Y%" bonuses all the time lol
look, if you're going to make them this boring, why have set bonuses at all...
these sets are awful.
why does the priest tier sets always look so good. it’s not fair
Is thier a limit to how much you can stack the prot pally 4 piece or are we gonna get dumb videos of a prot pally tossin a Capt america shield and one shotting a world boss?
Unsure of other classes, but boy are the mage set bonuses incredibly boring. Just a flat 6% damage increase on one spell? Great, thanks.
IDK if the appearances were leaked beforehand but damn Rogues and Priests are eating good on their sets. Rogues getting Ethereal drip and Priests almost look like Paladins, reminds me of Judgment hood almost.
Wow these are all horrible.
People asking not to use their main cast spells, do something blizz remove those players instead the core game mechanics.
As a Druid player, only the feral bonus seems to excellent, the others are verrrrry meh
Arcame?
Interesting to note that VDH is the only tank without a %DR in their set. As an unholy player, I’ll take all the haste I can get.
The preservation evoker set is utter garbage... With the current hero talents, neither reversion nor blossom seem like they will be more than fillers spells. Legit ~1% healing increase from 2+4 set...
A lot of people are knocking the tier sets.. I for one am super excited about my devouring plague being extended for 1.0 seconds
Arms warrior seems interesting for me. But fury, oh boy again with the shitty bloodthirst combo ffs
damn that was lame LMAO
They pull the much-needed elemental shaman balance pass into the 2pc set. What could go wrong when the season changes and the class gets less power? What a choice.
I don't get this : [Death Knight Unholy 11.0 Class Set 4pc](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=453632/death-knight-unholy-11-0-class-set-4pc) - When you summon a minion, your Haste is increased by 2%, up to 8% for 8 sec. As UH, you are supposed to resummon your pet each time the cool down is up ?
“Data mined”. So the intern walked to the class set vendor 5 feet from where you load in to the beta?
Am i reading wrong or the 2 set of blood dk are extremely underpower ? Like what i'm gonna do with like 3-5% damage reduction.
Is Warlock back in the War Within? The Bonuses seem great along with the talents that were released.
MW setbonuses are borderline useless for m+ great job Blizz 😅
Shaman getting a set from Cata greens…. Uhhhh aight sure. 😩
God why are all these so boring, like comeon.
Frost Mage 4pc is possibly the most dogshit set bonus they’ve ever made, kudos
At least it doesn't force frostmages into glacial spike. That's my only gripe with this expac. I don't mind GS, it's pretty satisfying, but constantly building tier sets around it is getting tiresome.
Alright fine. We get it. Just make season 2 interesting to make-up for this
Although a bit boring it’s completely understandable since most rotations and kits will change priorities or how they work slightly through hero talents being introduced and adjusted
I assume these are boring/bland because they didn't want to accidentally make a tier set bonus that locks you into a specific Hero Talent Tree. So they likely just said - what abilities are used in both Hero Trees and then buffed them as a baseline for all specs, rather than trying to get too clever and accidentally make it so that a specific Hero Talent Tree is dead on arrival because of how it does or doesn't interact with tier. Personally, I think they could have still been creative with these with that restriction in mind, but I at least understand where they're coming from. Hero Talents are one of the big XPAC selling points, so I'm sure they're being conservative so that people have the freedom to actually use both of their Hero Talent Trees. That said, if Season 2 tier is just as boring as these, they need to have a real conversation about the role and purpose of Tier in the Hero Talent era.
I'd rather have these boring sets than the ones that make balancing a nightmare. With new talents already, its definitely going to be one.
Most of these sets are pretty lame looking imo. Priest one looks alright.
Paladin is the only good looking one imo. Rest are ugly especially DK.
Paladin is the only good looking one imo. Rest are ugly especially DK.
Wow, those are *awful*.
Beta realms not even up, people complaining. Boy oh boy
Paladin is so fucking ugly. Looks like waiting till s2 to play pally. Priest it is
I mean, we get it you don't want to force talent choices in the first tier set bonuses. But shit, could you have at least made them "sound" interesting. Frost DK is like "just keep doing what you do, and you'll do more damage". How about instead of a 5% damage increase you have 3PPM that does something visual that adds on 5% damage. You are still doing nothing, but you look good doing it. Like DK could throw a ghost at the baddy or Mage could shoot a laser from the eye on their hat.
Serendipity for holy priest? Is that a typo for serenity or a new spell? Or am I completely blanking on. Talent lol
"When you heal with Binding Heal or Flash Heal, the cast time of your next Heal or Prayer of Healing spell is reduced by 20% and mana cost reduced by 20%. Stacks up to 2 times. Lasts 20 sec." In other words, it's an old version of Holy Words from before Shadowlands. Could still be a typo or other mistake, of course.
It's Holy Words currently, renamed in TWW
**BM 4 Piece** Your pet's attacks have a 10% chance to increase all pet damage you deal by 10% for 10 sec. I'm just... I don't have the words
Rule of 10s.
These are extremely boring, dull, and uninspiring. The excuse for it being the first tier so they can't make fun/unique bonuses is poor. The warlock ones specifically, regardless of numerical tuning in the end, are downright laughable. First iteration of things so it could change, but these are all super boring.
These all suck. Even the mog looks shit.
Man, they look like shit.
i feel like just remove tier sets if this are the effects...
I agree, if they don't wat to complicate things the first tier with sets then just don't make sets at all.
Survival gets +5% on bombs and a 4set that's only good for single target, just delete the spec lol. That enhancement 4set looks VERY interesting.
This is just data mined, not an "official" reveal. I wouldn't be surprised if most of these are placeholder only. They sound way too simplistic.