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I feel like Blood takes that now since the changes.
Gorfiend's grasp has a 3sec silence talent and there's a talent for DK to share AMS with two nearby dps.
> Gorfiend's grasp has a 3sec silence talent and there's a talent for DK to share AMS with two nearby dps.
How good is this talent actually? Since it's only a 3 second silence on mobs that were just interupted.
It's still three seconds of breathing space before anything starts hitting you with spell damage again, three seconds longer before you need to use an AoE CC to stop multiple casts going off again, etc. It's value will probably depend a lot on the dungeon, so how "good" it is will vary a lot.
That only matters if cast times are staggered across a single pull. It very well could be useful if you’re just grasping at the start of a pull but if you’re grasping mid cast for all the casters in the pack it’s much less useful.
I don’t really see how a 3 second AoE silence every 1,5 minutes is a game changer.
Blood will be strong, and a well setup pull enables other AoE CC to be really efficient, but 3 sec silence is just as strong as any other AoE CC.
Vanilla Mass Grip is great, but the other Talent point is better used somewhere else.
If anything, tanks seem pretty well round up in terms of cc by now, especially given how unique all their utility still feels. It’s kinda crazy how bliz pulled up such a good tank balance (even now on live), but messes it up with a single talent for a single class.
Removing this crap is the single best news about tww.
There are several locations in most of the dragonflight dungeons I'd kill for such utility. And I feel like Eggtender in TWW will be a prime example for it to be used in raid.
Blood still suffers from having too few talent points to take all the cool shit it can theoretically do, and the current positioning of Gorefiend's Grasp+Tightening Grasp make them very hard to justify taking.
The problem is Blood is extremely talent starved so builds need to be as efficient as possible. Tightening Grasp only connects to Blood Feast (a dead talent never worth taking) and Tombstone (which is good, but accessible through Reinforced Bones for one point less). So that branch of the talent tree is effectively a dead end, and that's not even getting into what you're going to give up to get those two extra talent points.
You can pick them up if you really want them but it's a high opportunity cost that isn't going to be worth it in most cases.
I don't see them has high opportunity cost and it's not about most cases, but specific cases. Most raid fights probably wont use it but fights like Eggtender probably will.
The biggest issue is sanguine ground and coagulopathy but they can be snagged still.
Honestly the only thing I trade to make it fit is a little bit of max hp.
This. Yea they have wonderful anti-caster abilities. But they can get popped real fast to constant damage especially into physical damage.
They are not the tankiest of tanks especially when below geared or at gear level, and don’t have particularly good kiting abilities either.
They need to fix WoG so it does more self heals and Prot Pally will shine. From what I've seen, BloodDK will be great for lower keys but very susceptible to one-shot mechanics in higher keys.
I mean, every tank, healer and dps ever is great for lower keys. whenever we talk meta we're really only talking about what's good at meeting the challenges presented at the forefront of keys.
Happened to me a fair bit last season. Blow all my coolies, two OF a few seconds apart, instantly rip aggro, pop enraged regeneration and live exclusively because that CD really meshed well with S3 Fury. As long as I wasn't immediately pummeled to death, I usually lived!
Lemme guess the changes early; "Lightning bolt damage increased by 5%. Chain Lightning damage increased by 5%. Earthquake damage reduced by 400%. Flame shock is now dispelled after you cast Lava Burst. Flame shocks cool down increased to 20sec. Everytime you cast Lightning Bolt, you loose a day of game time."
I think there will be changes at some point. If they were making regular balance changes and it was still garbage (like hpal) I'd be worried since it means they're fine tuning a smelly turd that they plan to ship.
Hunter got "we are doing rework, you'll see results soon", then it got rework.
Shaman has nothing. You are saying nothing when you have nothing to show.
Is that how they usually do things? Because I don't remember that being how they usually go about their reworks. Seemed to me at the time that hunters were just taking up so much space whining that they needed to quiet them down.
Glad they nerfed our one ability that feels impactful. I can't wrap my head around the divine favour change either. Like I can understand trying to prune abilities like that but tying it into holy prism/barrier of faith when that already has stuff tied to it I think is the wrong choice. Also they didn't change hand of divinity at all, which is the ability everyone was asking to be pruned.
We were hyper meta for almost 2.5 expansions for M+, so personally I don't mind being not that strong for a bit but God what I'd give to go back to 10.1.5 design, but just weaker instead of whatever the fuck we are now.
Never played M+, I was mostly looking at PvP.
For a brief time Hpal was godlike and really strong.
Now we're made of paper and I actually feel like I die in a stiff breeze compared to my _priest_. Despite having plate and a shield. And the amount of hardcasting I have to do on hpal just feels awful and makes me super vulnerable to kicks or CC.
I feel like far too much of hpal's "power budget" is spent on immunities that half the classes in the game can now purge or dispell, or otherwise have far too long a CD to be useful more than once in an arena match. Meanwhile priest has multiple GTFO cards to play on much shorter CDs, but they get away with it because they're not "free immunities".
Harpoon and specifically aspect of the eagle baseline are really good changes. AotE is a fun ability but as pure utility you could pretty much never pick it up in the spec tree without loosing throughput. I don't like its visual (shooting birds? Let us throw the damn spear!) but gameplaywise this is a great change. With harpoon baseline and terms of engagement being an easy pick as you need bloodseeker behind it anyway we also a bit more flexibility to path around in the tree. Also like tip of the spear working with fury and explosive shot, even if the AoE rotation is now *super* busy.
I really enjoy where things are going with Surv. I still strongly feel that there's that last bit of utility missing so there's a stronger argument for groups. Currently, ranged hunter covers hunter utility while being safer (not that there's much hunter group utility to begin with, they even removed the little bit we had with the terrible sentinel birb)... So surv is more or less carried by numbers. Defensives (that are now so much better) and lack of utility over other hunters have been the two big survival issue since legion.
Also, I miss wildfire infusion... Mostly because I liked the bombs with pretty colors even if you didn't really have to play around them or anything. They looked cool.
I assumed the shooting birds thing was related to the hunter campaign in Legion, where you were blessed by Ohn'ahra the eagle wild god then survival hunters use Talonclaw the eagle spear which is also directly related to Ohn'ahra.
The ability came with the bfa rework but it might inspired by all the eagle shenanigans.
There’s also the problem with pack leader and CA being a bit counter intuitive.
With pack leader you want to mangoose and kc but CA make you spam bomb and ks.
I hope they figure a fix for that
The baseline changes were awesome.
So many raid mechanics were aspect of the eagle would have been nice to minimize downtime when running around. But almost never worth to pick. :C
And I was really afraid to "loose" Harpoon and ToE with so many other importand nodes.
Mobile SV is happy SV! :3
Really great that just 1 week after the rework was published so many changes and bugfixes (and ofc new bugs ;D ) came out.
It also seems that a lot of the changes came directly from community feedback, which is really rewarding for all the Hunters being actively bughunting and testing.
I have no idea how they managed to build not only one but two hero talents for rogues on brain farts.
Hidden blade trigger on feint wouldn't have been considered by anyone who actually plays rogue at the moment. I straight up refuse to believe that. Now that they shifted it to CP generators the tree is entirely passive and just as exciting.
Deathstalker with its capstone for some reason doesn't make sense for either of the two specs. It discourages sub from using SS, it doesn't work with sins AoE concept at all. Rest of the tree is passive plague damage on random nonsense (auto attacks? slice and dice?? why so many fan of knives talents???). Most reviews here were irritated and wondering if most of that are placeholders...
Coinbound is blizz again doubling down on RNG for some reason. Idk when some guy at blizz woke up and thought yeah, flipping a coin on a combo finisher for cosmic damage or a buff is peak rogue hero fantasy but man do I wish that said person would've just went back to bed. Most exciting thing here is the mercy grappling hook node that allows you to use it a second time when it randomly bugs out again.
The part that legitimately terrifies me is not that completely missed the mark when it comes to "heroic" feeling rogue concepts, that none of them feel or look particularly exciting (I think deathstalker has a purple swirly, which is the most noticeable visual there I guess) or that they refuse to work on the class as a whole that's arguably bloated to fuck and back with super dated maintenance buttons, but rather that they start to work on the numbers of that mess now...
Like they could've done so many cool things with rogues, from bounty hunters to highwayman to pirates to duellists or whatever and the fanciest thing is (with some headcanon) the assassins creed wannabe with hidden blade... Meanwhile other classes get cool shit like diabolist, kaelthas cosplays, mounted combat etc.
I'm a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiit jealous over here.
>Most exciting thing here is the mercy grappling hook node that allows you to use it a second time when it randomly bugs out again
I have some bad news for you... If it bugs on beta, you don't get a second charge even with the talent. It goes on cooldown same as retail.
>Idk when some guy at blizz woke up and thought yeah, flipping a coin on a combo finisher for cosmic damage or a buff is peak rogue hero fantasy
I mean a gambler spec could be really fun, and Rogue is absolutely the best place to put that kind of fantasy, but Outlaw is the pirate/bandit spec, not the gambler spec. People shouldn't be required to deal with heavy RNG just to play a classic pirate or bandit, archetypes which aren't really strongly associated with gambling or randomness. I mean pirates gamble, sure, but not to such a degree that a core mechanic should be focused on it.
There's a whole lot of personal bias from my side, so really no offense intended, but I really hate that association of gambling with outlaw rogue... Mostly because pirate to outlaw already is around one corner and gambling/RNG to pirate around another. Outlaw isn't defined by being a pirate, nor is a pirate defined by gambling. So the dumb question that somehow bothers me is why gambling has to define outlaw that much?
I mean, that's obviously just my opinion as oldie but I already was a bit irritated by loosing combat for outlaw in legion. Instead of the "duellist/agile combatant with dirty tricks" we somehow ended up with a dude who had to roll dices for damage (back then even as finisher, so you played yahtzee on pull until you got lucky while others played their class) and full on random stuff like rogue-mind-control (bribe) or summoning ghost ships that blasted enemies (cannonball barrage or sth).
Of all that they somehow kept the weird RNG and the glock. The pistol is ... fancy I guess, but imo would also fit better to a new spec. Like, give me 2 of them at midrange and I'm very much sold. It doesn't bother me much, though. RNG does, as it tends to be a rather unstatisfying gameplay mechanic where you sacrifice consistency for occasional overperformance, with the former being pretty much always more important. This already didn't work out once, so they had to dial RtB back from a dysfunctional spender into a (again, just imo) annoying fire and forget maintenance buff. So adding another passive, rotational layer of RNG as hero talent tree doesn't quite do much for me now.
End of the day, I generally do somewhat miss a more coherent direction for rogue. This started a while ago already, arguably in legion where they tried spec over class fantasy with mixed results, and still feels like they're not having a clear "vision" for what they want the class to be.
Then you clearly don't know how the spec works. The entire point of the spec is to cheat the RNG with built in mechanics on your finishers. I wish I could be this confident holding opinions of things I know nothing of, sadly I have above room temperature IQ.
Except that's not how it actually works. It is designed to "cheat" the RNG after you've already rolled the same face three times, which is more RNG.
It's weird to be so aggressive about how wrong you think someone else is when you clearly haven't actually played it, or even bothered to look at the implementation in sims and through the evaluation of top rogues who have played it.
I don't know man, I was hitting 3 pretty consistently on the dummy
I'm not saying it's good but I felt like it felt okay after being apprehensive reading it
You are entirely wrong. You can guarantee the first 3 flips are the same when you come out of stealth via the talent Fate Intertwined. Second of all, Fatebound rogue sims very well right now because even if you don't match the same coin (if u play your rotation right this shouldnt be a problem), your coin flips still give you damage. Meaning you don't actually need to hit 7 coin flips. Are you in the rogue discord? Drop your discord. Which top rogues are you talking about? The only complaint from top rogues and the rogue discord is that the tree is entirely passive, which can be subjective. Not the "luck" part of it.
it's okay tho, continue pretending to be right. You can give this comment a pity downvote too :) i dont mind
>struggles to deliver a compelling payoff for the level of RNG involved.
>The big elephant in the room I've been toeing around is of course, the randomness, old faithful RNG.
https://www.wowhead.com/news/assassination-rogue-review-of-fatebound-hero-talents-flipping-the-hand-of-fate-340466
Sorry, you know better than whispyr? You guarantee 3 in the opener then never again and you can not hit the same streak the rest of the fight. It also delays the damage of the opener.
It's weird to, AGAIN, confidently assert things that you're just *wrong* about.
Look man, if you wanna say "i green parse heroic and the fact that i flip a little coin is funny to me" then go for it, but lying is just pathetic.
So if understood it correctly without your capstone the damage is good. But the fucking capstone of the *hero* tree is unreliable and you still advocate that this turd is golden because of damage. You know that a simple % change will make you do awful damage and live with a shit tree right?
Yes. You are correct. https://www.wowhead.com/news/assassination-rogue-review-of-fatebound-hero-talents-flipping-the-hand-of-fate-340466
Despite the person you replied to claiming that "no one" is saying that, here's the primary assassination theorycrafter saying exactly that: the RNG to proc the capstone is entirely unreliable and is RNG, and the payoff for getting that RNG is terrible.
But I guess confidently spewing lies on reddit is fine and worthy of upvotes, sourcing and facts get you downvotes.
I remember watching whyspr and him liking fatebound a while back, finally found it. :)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxUYCiPfBOg&t=743s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxUYCiPfBOg&t=743s)
Hey now, they made one pvp change so skyfury totem drops when shaman use their favorite move, primordial wave. That's like a 100% increase in the number of shaman changes since alpha.
Shaman was my main for many years until I rerolled away because they get the short end of the stick over and over again, but it is sarcasm or is there anyone who likes primo wave? I hate this thing with a passion.
I was being sarcastic, sorry. The general consensus seems to be that primordial wave should be removed, but they keep forcing it to be a core part of shaman's play style. That pvp change is only the 2nd change shaman have gotten since alpha, and it once again reinforces primordial wave's spot in the rotation despite many people hating the spell.
Love that blizzard is fully refusing to acknowledge that San'layn making blood DK use vampiric blood on cooldown for damage is fucking stupid. I think they also managed to take a spec tree with very little flexibility and made it even less flexible
> Love that blizzard is fully refusing to acknowledge that San'layn making blood DK use vampiric blood on cooldown for damage is fucking stupid.
How much overall is it?
I don't have numbers as I don't have beta access but I expect it's a considerable amount of damage since during the entire duration it guarantees vampiric strikes and almost the entire hero skill tree is random procs that only happen when you use vampiric strike.
Not that it's a huge deal. But I don't really understand why spell variance is even a thing. What is the point of adding 5% on power word shield? What benefit or gameplay change does this have? Because I can't think of anything other than it being kind of annoying that your shield is sometimes less powerful than you expect it to be.
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Oh they finally nerfed double sigils
Finally won’t feel like playing any other tank isn’t punishing your group, maybe.
It'll probably just go back to Protadin since they're the second most overloaded kit.
I feel like Blood takes that now since the changes. Gorfiend's grasp has a 3sec silence talent and there's a talent for DK to share AMS with two nearby dps.
The sharing AMS is so good, makes it safer for you to the classic dk move of pulling so much only you can survive
> Gorfiend's grasp has a 3sec silence talent and there's a talent for DK to share AMS with two nearby dps. How good is this talent actually? Since it's only a 3 second silence on mobs that were just interupted.
It's still three seconds of breathing space before anything starts hitting you with spell damage again, three seconds longer before you need to use an AoE CC to stop multiple casts going off again, etc. It's value will probably depend a lot on the dungeon, so how "good" it is will vary a lot.
That only matters if cast times are staggered across a single pull. It very well could be useful if you’re just grasping at the start of a pull but if you’re grasping mid cast for all the casters in the pack it’s much less useful.
I don’t really see how a 3 second AoE silence every 1,5 minutes is a game changer. Blood will be strong, and a well setup pull enables other AoE CC to be really efficient, but 3 sec silence is just as strong as any other AoE CC. Vanilla Mass Grip is great, but the other Talent point is better used somewhere else. If anything, tanks seem pretty well round up in terms of cc by now, especially given how unique all their utility still feels. It’s kinda crazy how bliz pulled up such a good tank balance (even now on live), but messes it up with a single talent for a single class. Removing this crap is the single best news about tww.
There are several locations in most of the dragonflight dungeons I'd kill for such utility. And I feel like Eggtender in TWW will be a prime example for it to be used in raid.
Blood still suffers from having too few talent points to take all the cool shit it can theoretically do, and the current positioning of Gorefiend's Grasp+Tightening Grasp make them very hard to justify taking.
Positioning right below heartbreaker that you'll always want to take?
The problem is Blood is extremely talent starved so builds need to be as efficient as possible. Tightening Grasp only connects to Blood Feast (a dead talent never worth taking) and Tombstone (which is good, but accessible through Reinforced Bones for one point less). So that branch of the talent tree is effectively a dead end, and that's not even getting into what you're going to give up to get those two extra talent points. You can pick them up if you really want them but it's a high opportunity cost that isn't going to be worth it in most cases.
I don't see them has high opportunity cost and it's not about most cases, but specific cases. Most raid fights probably wont use it but fights like Eggtender probably will. The biggest issue is sanguine ground and coagulopathy but they can be snagged still. Honestly the only thing I trade to make it fit is a little bit of max hp.
At least Paladin has some tradeoffs that leave room for other tanks to shine.
This. Yea they have wonderful anti-caster abilities. But they can get popped real fast to constant damage especially into physical damage. They are not the tankiest of tanks especially when below geared or at gear level, and don’t have particularly good kiting abilities either.
They need to fix WoG so it does more self heals and Prot Pally will shine. From what I've seen, BloodDK will be great for lower keys but very susceptible to one-shot mechanics in higher keys.
Balance patch hasn't been done.but Prot pallies getting slammed to Tyrannical Bosses in m+ compared to the rest.
I mean, every tank, healer and dps ever is great for lower keys. whenever we talk meta we're really only talking about what's good at meeting the challenges presented at the forefront of keys.
I, too, watched the Quazii video lol. (if you don't know what I'm talking about, he released a video saying exactly what you just said haha)
its just illuminated sigil, now
> Odyn’s Fury damage increased by 133% overall. hahahahahahaha. This is so gonna get nerfed again.
I remember original OF from Legion. Charge pack, blow recklessness, use OF, die instantly to aggro. Sort of like what evokers do now.
Happened to me a fair bit last season. Blow all my coolies, two OF a few seconds apart, instantly rip aggro, pop enraged regeneration and live exclusively because that CD really meshed well with S3 Fury. As long as I wasn't immediately pummeled to death, I usually lived!
Also pop that juicy trinket that will have 100% crit from recklessness
bring back skittish (this was a joke btw)
Where shaman
In shambles
Shamanbles
Waiting on 11.1 for their TWW changes of course.
Delusional Optimism. The only description I can give your comment. Obviously they'll be given updates during Midnight (TM) expansion.
It's BFA all over again "We'll give you a rework in 8.1" "...we never said we would do a full rework"
At least the changes in BfA 8.0 were actually good lol
Yea loved the cooldown on flameshock (not)
Lemme guess the changes early; "Lightning bolt damage increased by 5%. Chain Lightning damage increased by 5%. Earthquake damage reduced by 400%. Flame shock is now dispelled after you cast Lava Burst. Flame shocks cool down increased to 20sec. Everytime you cast Lightning Bolt, you loose a day of game time."
I think there will be changes at some point. If they were making regular balance changes and it was still garbage (like hpal) I'd be worried since it means they're fine tuning a smelly turd that they plan to ship.
Oh don’t worry. That part comes next
Do you think Blizzard can do proper rework in 3-5 weeks?
Is there reason to think they haven't started?
Hunter got "we are doing rework, you'll see results soon", then it got rework. Shaman has nothing. You are saying nothing when you have nothing to show.
Is that how they usually do things? Because I don't remember that being how they usually go about their reworks. Seemed to me at the time that hunters were just taking up so much space whining that they needed to quiet them down.
What is even happening with Holy Pally :|
Glad they nerfed our one ability that feels impactful. I can't wrap my head around the divine favour change either. Like I can understand trying to prune abilities like that but tying it into holy prism/barrier of faith when that already has stuff tied to it I think is the wrong choice. Also they didn't change hand of divinity at all, which is the ability everyone was asking to be pruned.
Hopefully wiping down the table and getting stuff prepped before ripping out all the caster crap they ruined the spec with.
Just give me WoD Holy Paladin.
Cata holy pala. Just spam holy radiance and get everyone absorb shields. Simple as.
We had a good run for all of one season. Back to the trash we go.
We were hyper meta for almost 2.5 expansions for M+, so personally I don't mind being not that strong for a bit but God what I'd give to go back to 10.1.5 design, but just weaker instead of whatever the fuck we are now.
Never played M+, I was mostly looking at PvP. For a brief time Hpal was godlike and really strong. Now we're made of paper and I actually feel like I die in a stiff breeze compared to my _priest_. Despite having plate and a shield. And the amount of hardcasting I have to do on hpal just feels awful and makes me super vulnerable to kicks or CC. I feel like far too much of hpal's "power budget" is spent on immunities that half the classes in the game can now purge or dispell, or otherwise have far too long a CD to be useful more than once in an arena match. Meanwhile priest has multiple GTFO cards to play on much shorter CDs, but they get away with it because they're not "free immunities".
SV hunter getting such love ♥️
Harpoon and specifically aspect of the eagle baseline are really good changes. AotE is a fun ability but as pure utility you could pretty much never pick it up in the spec tree without loosing throughput. I don't like its visual (shooting birds? Let us throw the damn spear!) but gameplaywise this is a great change. With harpoon baseline and terms of engagement being an easy pick as you need bloodseeker behind it anyway we also a bit more flexibility to path around in the tree. Also like tip of the spear working with fury and explosive shot, even if the AoE rotation is now *super* busy. I really enjoy where things are going with Surv. I still strongly feel that there's that last bit of utility missing so there's a stronger argument for groups. Currently, ranged hunter covers hunter utility while being safer (not that there's much hunter group utility to begin with, they even removed the little bit we had with the terrible sentinel birb)... So surv is more or less carried by numbers. Defensives (that are now so much better) and lack of utility over other hunters have been the two big survival issue since legion. Also, I miss wildfire infusion... Mostly because I liked the bombs with pretty colors even if you didn't really have to play around them or anything. They looked cool.
I assumed the shooting birds thing was related to the hunter campaign in Legion, where you were blessed by Ohn'ahra the eagle wild god then survival hunters use Talonclaw the eagle spear which is also directly related to Ohn'ahra. The ability came with the bfa rework but it might inspired by all the eagle shenanigans.
There’s also the problem with pack leader and CA being a bit counter intuitive. With pack leader you want to mangoose and kc but CA make you spam bomb and ks. I hope they figure a fix for that
The baseline changes were awesome. So many raid mechanics were aspect of the eagle would have been nice to minimize downtime when running around. But almost never worth to pick. :C And I was really afraid to "loose" Harpoon and ToE with so many other importand nodes. Mobile SV is happy SV! :3
Really great that just 1 week after the rework was published so many changes and bugfixes (and ofc new bugs ;D ) came out. It also seems that a lot of the changes came directly from community feedback, which is really rewarding for all the Hunters being actively bughunting and testing.
The Deathstalker tree is so unbelievably dead on arrival lmfao
Rogue playerbase is about to get even smaller. From 13 players down to 5.
I have no idea how they managed to build not only one but two hero talents for rogues on brain farts. Hidden blade trigger on feint wouldn't have been considered by anyone who actually plays rogue at the moment. I straight up refuse to believe that. Now that they shifted it to CP generators the tree is entirely passive and just as exciting. Deathstalker with its capstone for some reason doesn't make sense for either of the two specs. It discourages sub from using SS, it doesn't work with sins AoE concept at all. Rest of the tree is passive plague damage on random nonsense (auto attacks? slice and dice?? why so many fan of knives talents???). Most reviews here were irritated and wondering if most of that are placeholders... Coinbound is blizz again doubling down on RNG for some reason. Idk when some guy at blizz woke up and thought yeah, flipping a coin on a combo finisher for cosmic damage or a buff is peak rogue hero fantasy but man do I wish that said person would've just went back to bed. Most exciting thing here is the mercy grappling hook node that allows you to use it a second time when it randomly bugs out again. The part that legitimately terrifies me is not that completely missed the mark when it comes to "heroic" feeling rogue concepts, that none of them feel or look particularly exciting (I think deathstalker has a purple swirly, which is the most noticeable visual there I guess) or that they refuse to work on the class as a whole that's arguably bloated to fuck and back with super dated maintenance buttons, but rather that they start to work on the numbers of that mess now... Like they could've done so many cool things with rogues, from bounty hunters to highwayman to pirates to duellists or whatever and the fanciest thing is (with some headcanon) the assassins creed wannabe with hidden blade... Meanwhile other classes get cool shit like diabolist, kaelthas cosplays, mounted combat etc. I'm a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiit jealous over here.
>Most exciting thing here is the mercy grappling hook node that allows you to use it a second time when it randomly bugs out again I have some bad news for you... If it bugs on beta, you don't get a second charge even with the talent. It goes on cooldown same as retail.
>Idk when some guy at blizz woke up and thought yeah, flipping a coin on a combo finisher for cosmic damage or a buff is peak rogue hero fantasy I mean a gambler spec could be really fun, and Rogue is absolutely the best place to put that kind of fantasy, but Outlaw is the pirate/bandit spec, not the gambler spec. People shouldn't be required to deal with heavy RNG just to play a classic pirate or bandit, archetypes which aren't really strongly associated with gambling or randomness. I mean pirates gamble, sure, but not to such a degree that a core mechanic should be focused on it.
There's a whole lot of personal bias from my side, so really no offense intended, but I really hate that association of gambling with outlaw rogue... Mostly because pirate to outlaw already is around one corner and gambling/RNG to pirate around another. Outlaw isn't defined by being a pirate, nor is a pirate defined by gambling. So the dumb question that somehow bothers me is why gambling has to define outlaw that much? I mean, that's obviously just my opinion as oldie but I already was a bit irritated by loosing combat for outlaw in legion. Instead of the "duellist/agile combatant with dirty tricks" we somehow ended up with a dude who had to roll dices for damage (back then even as finisher, so you played yahtzee on pull until you got lucky while others played their class) and full on random stuff like rogue-mind-control (bribe) or summoning ghost ships that blasted enemies (cannonball barrage or sth). Of all that they somehow kept the weird RNG and the glock. The pistol is ... fancy I guess, but imo would also fit better to a new spec. Like, give me 2 of them at midrange and I'm very much sold. It doesn't bother me much, though. RNG does, as it tends to be a rather unstatisfying gameplay mechanic where you sacrifice consistency for occasional overperformance, with the former being pretty much always more important. This already didn't work out once, so they had to dial RtB back from a dysfunctional spender into a (again, just imo) annoying fire and forget maintenance buff. So adding another passive, rotational layer of RNG as hero talent tree doesn't quite do much for me now. End of the day, I generally do somewhat miss a more coherent direction for rogue. This started a while ago already, arguably in legion where they tried spec over class fantasy with mixed results, and still feels like they're not having a clear "vision" for what they want the class to be.
Wheres the god damn secret agent themed hero talent blizz
You say that like the other two are good.
I like fatebound
Opinions are subjective but this is the wrong one. Atrocious RNG is bad.
Then you clearly don't know how the spec works. The entire point of the spec is to cheat the RNG with built in mechanics on your finishers. I wish I could be this confident holding opinions of things I know nothing of, sadly I have above room temperature IQ.
Except that's not how it actually works. It is designed to "cheat" the RNG after you've already rolled the same face three times, which is more RNG. It's weird to be so aggressive about how wrong you think someone else is when you clearly haven't actually played it, or even bothered to look at the implementation in sims and through the evaluation of top rogues who have played it.
I don't know man, I was hitting 3 pretty consistently on the dummy I'm not saying it's good but I felt like it felt okay after being apprehensive reading it
You are entirely wrong. You can guarantee the first 3 flips are the same when you come out of stealth via the talent Fate Intertwined. Second of all, Fatebound rogue sims very well right now because even if you don't match the same coin (if u play your rotation right this shouldnt be a problem), your coin flips still give you damage. Meaning you don't actually need to hit 7 coin flips. Are you in the rogue discord? Drop your discord. Which top rogues are you talking about? The only complaint from top rogues and the rogue discord is that the tree is entirely passive, which can be subjective. Not the "luck" part of it. it's okay tho, continue pretending to be right. You can give this comment a pity downvote too :) i dont mind
>struggles to deliver a compelling payoff for the level of RNG involved. >The big elephant in the room I've been toeing around is of course, the randomness, old faithful RNG. https://www.wowhead.com/news/assassination-rogue-review-of-fatebound-hero-talents-flipping-the-hand-of-fate-340466 Sorry, you know better than whispyr? You guarantee 3 in the opener then never again and you can not hit the same streak the rest of the fight. It also delays the damage of the opener. It's weird to, AGAIN, confidently assert things that you're just *wrong* about. Look man, if you wanna say "i green parse heroic and the fact that i flip a little coin is funny to me" then go for it, but lying is just pathetic.
So if understood it correctly without your capstone the damage is good. But the fucking capstone of the *hero* tree is unreliable and you still advocate that this turd is golden because of damage. You know that a simple % change will make you do awful damage and live with a shit tree right?
What? Read again what I said, that is not what I said.
Yes. You are correct. https://www.wowhead.com/news/assassination-rogue-review-of-fatebound-hero-talents-flipping-the-hand-of-fate-340466 Despite the person you replied to claiming that "no one" is saying that, here's the primary assassination theorycrafter saying exactly that: the RNG to proc the capstone is entirely unreliable and is RNG, and the payoff for getting that RNG is terrible. But I guess confidently spewing lies on reddit is fine and worthy of upvotes, sourcing and facts get you downvotes.
I remember watching whyspr and him liking fatebound a while back, finally found it. :) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxUYCiPfBOg&t=743s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxUYCiPfBOg&t=743s)
Lol the tree is perfectly fine, the other 2 rogue hero specs are the ones you can throw your little tantrum over
Tell me about it. Rogue main since vanilla beta and I won’t be touching it going forward.
CTRL + F SHAMAN /cry I'm sure we will get changes next cycle...
>next cycle By next cycle, do you mean 12.0?
yeah, maybe 13.0
Hey now, they made one pvp change so skyfury totem drops when shaman use their favorite move, primordial wave. That's like a 100% increase in the number of shaman changes since alpha.
Shaman was my main for many years until I rerolled away because they get the short end of the stick over and over again, but it is sarcasm or is there anyone who likes primo wave? I hate this thing with a passion.
I was being sarcastic, sorry. The general consensus seems to be that primordial wave should be removed, but they keep forcing it to be a core part of shaman's play style. That pvp change is only the 2nd change shaman have gotten since alpha, and it once again reinforces primordial wave's spot in the rotation despite many people hating the spell.
Let Holy Paladin remind you that sometimes its better to remain unnoticed
They finally realised no one will press Doom as long as its a button.
Shamans on death watch rn 😭 why do they hate our class so much
We had our fun in sod for a while. Thats the one in a decade experience
So Blizzard simply wants us to NOT play shaman for TWW? Sure, fine. Thats fine by me...
We would rather you not play shaman ~~right now~~ ever
I just scroll down and find the Shaman changes... Still scrolling... Still scrolling...
No tuning on Shado-Pan, hopefully that means it really was placeholder and being reworked to be more thematic (hopium).
Dam didn't fix lone wolf and no shaman.
I love the shaman changes. At last they addressed our issues.
Love that blizzard is fully refusing to acknowledge that San'layn making blood DK use vampiric blood on cooldown for damage is fucking stupid. I think they also managed to take a spec tree with very little flexibility and made it even less flexible
> Love that blizzard is fully refusing to acknowledge that San'layn making blood DK use vampiric blood on cooldown for damage is fucking stupid. How much overall is it?
I don't have numbers as I don't have beta access but I expect it's a considerable amount of damage since during the entire duration it guarantees vampiric strikes and almost the entire hero skill tree is random procs that only happen when you use vampiric strike.
Why can't I hold all these Shaman changes? /s
Not that it's a huge deal. But I don't really understand why spell variance is even a thing. What is the point of adding 5% on power word shield? What benefit or gameplay change does this have? Because I can't think of anything other than it being kind of annoying that your shield is sometimes less powerful than you expect it to be.
Sit down shamens you gotta wait ur turn
I am once again asking for Panda DH and Druid.
is this active in beta now or just test server, i logged into beta and did not have moonkin form as base on my druid
Moonkin form hasn't been base for a while? It was a talent and then got turned into a balance only baseline spell in tww right?
i thought i read patch change it was getting changed to base again, maybe i am wrong
It's only available for Balance now, it's base for them.