Post flair indicates this is about prerelease content.
As a reminder, content on Alpha / Beta / PTR is unfinished. NPC dialogue and quest text might be missing important context. Models may be placeholders. Quest or achievement rewards may not be finalized. There are inevitably bugs. Please keep this in mind as you discuss!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> The number of character macro slots has increased to 30 (was 18).
The actual big news for any class with a healing spec. I more-than-capped character macro slots with help/harm macros now being required.
I have all my macros in the genersl tab. They are just named MoExpel. Or RoKick.. HunMark etc. Groups hem nice and alphabetical. And I can scavenge parts from macros I've made in the past.
Yeah I use these so much now they really need to make them UI options. I guess they do have some click to cast options that I haven’t tried now that I write this.
Just started learning healing. What do help/harm do?
I noticed when I make mouseover macros, if I’m not cursing over something, it won’t cast, even with someone selected. Is that normal?
help/harm macros are usually used to macro two spells into the same button. Help is a condition if it would heal/etc a friendly target and harm is used when it would damage a target.
Mouseover macros will only cast at the mouseover. But you can make it cast after that if the first condition didn't apply
So an example for both of those would be
[@mouseover,nodead,help] Riptide; Flame Shock
First being the mouseover. the one after is casted if you don't have a mouseover but do have a target. Course this can be expanded back to if you wanted both spells to be mouseovers then
[@mouseover,nodead,help] Riptide; [@mouseover, nodead, harm] Flame Shock
And then you could add another ; if you wanted to say default to Riptide yourself or something.
Nodead just checks to see if the target is alive or not
It's not wholely necessary but will help avoid errors and of course accidently targeting dead things
Yes, but only for spells dragged from the spell book. If you want a help/harm macro to also be mouseover, you need to add mouseover conditionals to that macro.
> if I’m not cursing over something, it won’t cast, even with someone selected. Is that normal?
This is almost certainly because your macro only has the conditional of 'mouseover', meaning it doesn't have any other rules it can follow if a mouseover doesn't exist. Try something like this instead
/cast [@mouseover,exists,nodead][] Riptide
The second, empty bracket means if the first bracket doesn't qualify, it'll go back to default behavior.
Yea the macro UI is atrocious. There should be tabs + labeling, etc. But its probably one of those bag codes were half the game breaks if you change something
You can actually cut down on a LOT of macros by using /click macros.
For example
/click [help] actionButton4, actionButton5
Make sure you get the right action button names though.
With this you set 1 action bar for healing, another for attacking and put your spells on those action bars. You make 12 macros that will work for every class and never make one again.
The best part of this system is that you can basically edit the macro by dragging and dropping your abilities on the action bars, so If I decide I want greater heal in mends place I just swap them on the action bar and it's all set up automatically.
This is imo the best system I have found, /click macros are severely underrated
I wish they could have some sort of default ui system for this. Realistically I would like to see some sort of pairing of abilities, so as a resto Druid rejuve gets combined with moonfire, sunfire/lifebloom, etc.
I'm not at home rn but, if my mind serves me well, I couldn't bind numbers nor the mouse wheel. Clique is also more handy to bind quick casts since it sits in the spellbook.
Oh I did miss scroll casting but with side buttons left and right default was enough and I use click macros so all my spells sit on one of my 6 actionbars and when I right click it selects a button on the actionbar that I can change at will.
Clique allows you to bind stuff that isn't left or right click. as an example I have many of my abilities on scroll wheel which Blizzard's implementation doesn't support. neither do they support say Q, you have to write a macro for that.
honestly a very weird limitation.
Clique doesnt need the spell to be on your bars so you can help/harm without a macro and also lets your mouseovers work only on partyframes and not on models
It's just offsetting the damage loss from strength during pillar but hopefully it'll be a good thing. Gonna miss the extra first strike cost thing though
It's certainly a good thing. As a casual player who tried to do some keys in DF with the Frost DK, I've got quite disheartened by the fact I only do actual damage during the Pillar windows. And the AoE tied to cleave felt just abysmal.
That’s not the part that’s changing it looks like. You’ll still be doing all your damage with pillar. Also I highly doubt you’re going to want to spam scythe only. You’re still going to be dnd cleaving.
iirc scythe is a long cooldown big hit now like frostwyrm, so no longer spammable, was like that when I tried out the beta at least. not sure how I feel about it tbh, I was kinda getting used to scythe spamming, lol (especially in solo/legacy content)
The new version of scythe feels really cool to use and actually just hits hard. I'm hoping with the limited talent options that we can actually take it and use it in keys, but it's definitely an aoe-centric talent
It’s bad. Was already worried about less skill expression with the new tree and they remove pillar snapshotting and Killing Efficiency rate…. Obliteration plays itself even more and breath is even more gutted
Pillar str gain was just annoying, I'd rather be able to fire off a fwf and not have to set up perfectly for max damage. Obliteration definitely doesn't just play itself, there's a huge amount of room for skill expression.
It also aligns with FWF (with AZ) very nicely, and now you can send it to start PoF if you run Riders i stead of the awkward choice of holding FWF for the last global of PoF or getting the Horsemen up for the duration.
Also, with The Long Winter’s PoF extension mechanic (and you’re always taking TLW) if you didn’t get extension until the last second then you could send your FWF and it not be the last global, another odd interaction that we now avoid without the ramp gone.
Yeah it just felt bad all around esp with the new changes. Also picking CH, FsC, and FWF, you aren't pressed to smash all these buttons at the end of pillar. I'm very excited for these changes.
I’ve been tempted to try frost as season 1, I can’t really work out the playstyle apart from respond to procs and keep breath going. Can you talk to me about what the intent is meant to be?
Two distinct playstyles:
Obliteration: meant to be a spikey, high apm, medium decision making 1-2-1-2 spam where you unload at the end of pillar with frostwyrm/frostscythe. Todays changes make the floor more consistent (you aren’t punished for low uptime and it sync with 90 sec trinkets) but pretty significantly drops the ceiling (no strength ramp is a HUGE hit)
Breath: builder maintainer where you are dancing to keep runic power up for as long as you can, using horn of winter and ERW (used to snapshot with hysteria). Nerfing killing efficiency on top of all the previous RP generation has nuked this playstyle, which is very sad as it’s the only of its kind.
PoF loses the Strength ramp, but raw damage is being increased to compensate. And don’t forget, tuning doesn’t even really go final until pretty much right before launch. Buffing the abilities themselves makes FDK stronger outside of pillar, which was much needed IMO, and dampens the blow of losing the strength ramp
As for BoS… no? The playstyle certainly isn’t nuked. Perma breath is going away in favor of a ~30-45 second breath window, which is *what most BoS players have been asking for*. To compensate for less time, its damage has been (and may continue to be) buffed.
These FDK changes are big Ws IMO. The only thing that’s weird is PoD not aligning with ERW and BoS CDs right now, but they could be brought down to 1m30s or if you play BoS and want to keep them align just don’t take Icecap and put the point elsewhere.
I mained FDK S2-3 and you're spot on. This seems very positive to me. Switching between other classes and FDK was such a mindfuck with how useless you were outside of pillar and how important juicing every little GCD and proc inside it was. Now its still a big dps CD but you shouldn't feel like a wet noodle outside of it.
It was much more frustrating, any mechanic goes on you and Breath is fucked.
Yeah it is a blast when you do get that 100% uptime but most of the time it's me going "god fucking dammit" and losing it like 20 seconds in for whatever reason. Fun as hell on bosses like Terros though.
It's just healthier and overall better for the average playerbase for it to not be balanced around that huge uptime, which it had to be.
Funny they said they specifically want to keep that playstyle. I prefer Obliteration but it's a net negative they are moving away from build diversity. I can definetly see someone playing frost dk just for the breath playstyle.
At least it will be easier to tune. Kinda sad I won't be able to overlap the pillar ramp with Reaper's Mark ramp, was looking forward to trying that out in WW.
Fluid Form being obtainable by feral druids is so incredibly nice. This is the #1 change I've been hoping for. It will make ferals REALLY fun to play in PvP.
This. Button bloat is insane on my druid, and the different shapeshift forms was (obviously) the original design for how to handle the bloat. I'd rather they just put shapeshifting onto a separate GCD.
Not op, but not going to lie, mongoose bite losing its identity really hurts. Main thing I liked about the spec, even if I get why they changed it.
Haven't looked at the tree though, so unsure.
> Overflowing Light has been redesigned – 15% of Holy Shock’s overhealing is converted into an absorb shield. The shield amount cannot exceed 10% of your max health.
I have to wonder if 15% Holy Shock overhealing now actually would have been worth more than 30% Glimmer overhealing.
With Glimmer gone and excessive cooldowns remaining, HPal seems like a more boring Holy Priest.
That’s also way down the tree in the current build. I’ll have to see an updated talent tree. It’s just very odd. Glimmer was mostly liked by Hpals. From a pure size of the shield standpoint, the old talent was giving 15% of max HP.
Glimmer is super hard to balance around, plus it is a lot to track if you want to play optimally in raid. It got to the point where your spenders weren't worth casting.
Removing glimmer allows Blizz to buff their active healing kit. The people that like Glimmer liked the BfA version of it when it was buffed and OP. The Glimmer that existed until now was a shadow of its BfA form.
Hard agree. Glimmers were fine in dungeons but in raids it was always difficult to get good value out of the glimmers, short of raid-wide damage. I haven’t done a deep dive into my logs but I suspect I lost a lot of healing due to glimmers being on the “wrong” targets and overhealing.
I would much rather have my spenders be actually valuable. It feels really bad to release a Word of Glory and it heals for 200k. Whoop.
They really want to push us away from the instant cast playstyle it seems and back into the caster playstyle (if you look at the previous changes to the caster build)
Not really? They removed glimmer but buffed the healing output of other spells, namely Holy Shock
The shield talent is just a conversion from glimmer to holy shock, and it doesn't matter much because that talent was kinda trash and it will continue to be trash
Why do you think that?
They removed glimmer but buffed holy shock to compensate,
they've tied some new effects to judgment and now you can even reduce its cooldown
they buffed avenging crusader
they've buffed WoG and LoD and the new Hero Talents are both based on instant casts
Probably not enough to completely replace casting, but it seems they want to keep a hybrid playstyle and not necessarily push it in either direction
>I have to wonder if 15% Holy Shock overhealing now actually would have been worth more than 30% Glimmer overhealing.
Probably not. A big problem with that talent today is that it only last 8 seconds
With no haste Holy Shock is on a 9 secs recharge time
Meaning it becomes very hard to stack it up properly, even when you have high haste
So you run into 1 of 2 situations, either theres constant damage going out and so you're not overhealing and no shield is being applied
Or there isn't too much damage, you're overhealing, but now you're constantly spamming holy shock on CD to keep that shield going. And if you miss by a second or two the shield drops and you lose it
And holy shock actually has a disadvantage here, with glimmer applying the shield, if no one needs healing you can just shock an enemy and the shield will build up passively through your glimmers. But now being tied to Holy Shock means you have to waste it as overhealing if you want to keep a shield going
I'd be very surprised if this talent contributes even 1% to overall healing
They should have just replaced the talent with the shock barrier legendary from Shadowlands, so HS would provide a shield no matter what. With how little HS heals for, a shield based on overheating seems underwhelming.
They buffed HS when they removed glimmer, so it might actually start to be noticeable
But yeah, shielding on overhealing is pretty bad for direct healing spells because your goal is always to minimize overhealing and use the appropriate spell for the right situation
Ideally they would reserve this mechanic for things like HoTs, where a lot of times you get sniped and they end up overhealing a lot on their own
As is, this talent is pretty much dead in the water, but it doesn't matter too much since it was already kind bad and we have other talents that we want to get
Glimmer has been a reason I've not played the spec for awhile personally
Felt like all the work of Disc but with way less payoff, just let me fucking heal without ramping
I also kinda hate the whole "spread this thing around and keep up all the buffs for optimal heals" gameplay, so I've been using the "Glimmer can only affect 1 target, with +40% effect".
With the singletarget Glimmer, it's pretty much just a buff to your Holy Shock, as 2nd cast in a row will heal a ton (as it also triggers the Glimmer). Also, with increased effect of Glimmer (and the fact that the effect doesn't spread): the triple-holyshock effect after Daybreak gets a nice buff for singletarget burst heals.
So, I pretty much just ignore Glimmer, consider Holy Shock a "two cast combo for max heal", and shit's fine.
I won't miss Glimmer, but I'm still a bit surprised that they just went and removed it. :D
I have always hated Glimmer, it just does what beacons do but on more targets and then got beacon/shock/everything else nerfed over and over because of its tuning. Now I can focus on healing targets that need heals and not making sure the glimmer icon is on enough people before I daybreak (also gone yay!) I am so excited for the changes.
Only for proactive healers. Reactive ones don't need it.
Hpal was always reactive one (except for applying beacon which you do and forget) before they made it proactive with all ramps that it shouldn't (imho) have. I like dopamine burst version of hpal with strong holy shocks, strong healing spells, strong spenders, strong reactive cooldowns. If they made hpal holy priest then now its disc priest. I hope gameplay will be more fun with all those changes. It seems to me that mechanics are better (for me) but it depends on numbers. With good numbers I prefer nonglimmer version. Panda and cata hpal are my favorite ones.
I think it was kinda the same as in pandas but I skipped wod. But what I definitely remember is that I completely stopped playing hpal in legion. It was completely different from all perspectives spec. Not that holy knight with book (even thought they basically added this animation in legion if I remember right😆)
100% I aboslutely hate this APM play style in raid where its feel you're just doing aim training session in CS (Aimlabs or something), if you accidently hit a person who already had glimmer it feels bad, and also the fact it feels like it does 0 healing, because they're so small and they had to nerf Holy shock to do negative healing to compensate how much glimmer did.
Shh don't tell anyone, you might hit the r/wow meme economy too hard.
I wonder which class is going to take the crown for most neglected once Shaman get their updates
Last week I said if people look at the pattern of classes getting no changes for long periods of time, they tend to get huge reworks - a new one every few weeks.
Mages and Warlocks got it earlier, then Hunters recently. I predicted Shaman next in a couple of weeks.
I got downvoted, called condescending things like chief, because how could I possibly dare to use logic and basic understanding of design to go against the great whine of r/wow.
I’m happy for Shaman players that the evil Blizzard cabal wasn’t intentionally ignoring them for laughs (genuinely, people here believe this) but I am going to be very self satisfied that I can think I told you so to these ridiculous sorts of people.
I don’t think offended is correct. Feeling someone is being condescending when they’re wrong? The sort of reaction is more like a mental eye roll I suppose.
It’s more that I was taking the time to explain something pretty reasonable (and already demonstrable) but getting a condescending reply from someone telling me I was obviously wrong.
Which made me think of the person as a bit dense.
And then a week later the exact thing I said was going to happen happened, proving me right.
Which is rather satisfying. It can be enjoyable to tell some stranger that is not thinking straight and telling you you’re wrong that in fact they are wrong and being able to prove it =D
Ehh, Chief is like primarily used in a condescending way especially on the internet in arguments. Actually forget that, besides referring to an actual Chief, like paid position, it’s used completely condescendingly in real life too. You’re trying to argue it’s not like a labeled BAD word, but that’s not the point, bad argument imo.
I’d challenge anyone to find me a comment when someone refers somone else as chief in a non-condescending way, basically another word for tough guy at this point.
Wait Warlock is going to be getting reworked? I haven't been keeping up with the beta stuff as much, could you please link me what is changing with them?
They have had huge changes to all specs since early in the beta. Entire new spells, dozens of talent tree changes. Removals and additions. They have had more work done to them than most. (Demonology the most, then Destruction, less so for Affliction.)
You’d have to go through the blue posts week by week it’s interesting if you are interested in design!
They announce ‘major changes’ coming soon, so we gotta hope they’ll be good. I wanna say any changes are welcome at this point, but I really hope they don’t fuck anything up
The change to surging totem for resto basically just turns it into an instant cast, longer lasting, and stronger healing rain. With Totemic Projection, you will be able to move it with a 10 second CD so you should be able to keep it in a good position.
So instead of hard casting healing rain every 10 seconds, you instant cast it every 24 seconds, with an option to move it on a 10 second CD.
Hopeful for the rest of the changes coming, but don't exactly have a ton of faith in it being anything too major.
[Holy shit Glimmer is fucking dead, you will not be missed, and Holy shock actually gonna do healing now? for the love of god give me back my legion holy paladin ](https://gyazo.com/276669a5d3ebb3e4d90a91bf41772776)
Lol, we are on an upwards trend here. Let’s hope Blizzard keeps it up. Also, I am happy they are buffing the Lightbringer stuff because it makes me also feel like a buff bot which I always enjoy in other games.
I'm so scared. I had finally sat down and decided on my main for TWW.
Then they come in and execute Glimmer. Now Paladin is looking at me all sexy across the aisle again.
And it's never like a few lines. It has to be 7 paragraphs long, taking a quarter of the total changes among the 30 something specs.
Every. Single. Week. For months now.
This week it’s pretty much all nerfs.
Which is fair becauses mages, especially fire, are way overtuned right now.
It’s funny to see a fire mage doing more dmg than the rest of their group combined though..
Okay tell me how I should feel about arcane because I don't know what talents the new ones are replacing. I dont see any removed talents but have to assume there are some. I can understand the changes to proc rates on clearcasting just fine, but does this force the tree into pure ST and AoE builds? Are talents in bad spots or unreachable?
Ah yes those lucky mages getting 7 paragraphs of substantial nerfs! If only everyone could get such things every patch!
I have said this before (last week, I got downvoted for it despite being correct) that iterative tuning to the extent that Magi and Warlocks are getting patch after patch is very easy to do and takes far less time than more substantial design changes.
Hunters had nothing for months and now they have huge changes every week. They’ll continue getting smaller changes each week from now until end of Beta. How long until people complain about that?
People have such chips on their shoulders for classes that aren’t their mains getting good design, maybe some need to go outside and stop being so miserable.
“How *dare* a class I don’t play continue to be worked on!”
If this tuning is so easy, why haven't other classes (ALL of them, not just the ones I like) also have that kind of attention throughout the Alpha/Beta? Infernal/Rift was bounced back and forth more than other classes have gotten a new *talent connection*.
MM had a rework released 2 weeks ago and has had zero shifts in how it's tree is built, being completely left out of the notes last week and having only damage/cost tuning this week. BM has had few changes, some tuning and some bug-fixes, while Survival is the only Hunter spec with significant changes week to week, which is understandable as it's had the most substantial rework.
>People have such chips on their shoulders for classes that aren’t their mains getting good design, maybe some need to go outside and stop being so miserable.
I'm not sure how you can even type this in any good faith. Yeah, in a game where your vehicle to experience it is your class everyone should get good design, of course people are getting bent because of this. Why wouldn't someone want their class to have attention and iteration in the most overtly testing phase of an expansion, and then feel slighted when they watch it happen to others with nothing for them as time runs out?
I get the devs are humans and there are unfortunately deadlines, but it doesn't feel right to have a select few show up that much in notes compared to others.
Basically where I am with my class.
No buffs are whatever, espcially since buffs get overtuned and then nerfed. No nerfs are great.
Happy to sit exactly where we are.
Nah they weren’t. See the second reply to the comment and how many upvotes it has. They mentioned mages feeling “left out” which was sarcasm because mages get changed a lot. The OP and the second reply didn’t read that the changes were nerfs before whining, in true Redditor fashion
Removing Death Chakram from Hunters to reduce button bloat is great. Stating youre also doing it because it will let you bake it's power into each spec itself, and then not posting how you're doing that, is not great.
MM, which is already usually Focus starved on AoE, lost a big chunk of Focus generation thanks to Death Chakram being gone AND had Multi-shot Focus cost increased
I thought it was just because I was haste stacked as fuck from gearing as surv but playing some keys as MM on retail lately and in AoE I find myself casting steady shot just completely out of resource so much and that’s gotta be the worst feeling especially in AoE casting a zero damage filler that hits 1 target
a lot of people who played beta MM said they were focus flooded constantly. this change is to counteract that. will it be good? no idea, but yeah that's why they made the change for sure.
With the move to make Flanking Strike passive, I feel that this went a bit too far with button pruning for Survival. It’s super easy to make the rotation basically just be Mongoose Bite + Wildfire Bomb + Kill Command
I honestly didn't feel particularly button bloated on any of the hunter specs. At least the core rotations weren't outliers (compared to eG ww, affliction, enhance or so). Saying it's one of the biggest complains feels a bit cherry picked.
Idk, I've liked chakram. An idea would've been to make it a choice node with explosive shot, which would've been interesting with its resets but arguably harder to tune.
Either way, I'd rather have them take a look at general hunter group utility, twice for specifically for survival at that. The fancy changes they do are all great but in the end surv is still doing the same thing as other hunters do just in a already more contested melee slot... And hunters in general already provide very little to groups. They even removed sentinel owl, which was useless sure but still theoretically some group utility.
I really like that ability for my MM nelf cause it felt like a proper sentinel ability. Removing it just as they’re adding an actual sentinel hero spec feels odd to me. I’m gonna miss it
The random aspect of the totem casting healing rain sometimes not where or when you wanted it was a bad design.
Here you can put here where you want and relocate it easily, good change.
Though I would have preferred this change :
When casting surging totem, your healing rain become instant and stronger, so you can be like a RDrood! And still have flexibility on the localisation of your healing rain
Stuff like that really isn't uncommon. Especially when they are done with the Gameplay changes. It's also like the third time they nerfed fire numbers.
Welp, glad they're addressing Balance Druid being dogshit after the semi-rework, but I don't see this being hardly enough. Especially when Boomie gets a 5% blanket buff and another 15% to core spells, while other "fucked" specs like Fury and Arms just get a straight 30%.
Doesn't change the fact either that losing Pulsar just still sucks in a major way.
Atleast they're aware they've absolutely cocked it. So there's that.
Fury pretty much had its core build broken and now they are very aggressively tuning it back up (after that 30% its now at a +50% aura buff) so it kinda makes sense.
I mean ye I'm not disagreeing with it. But same goes for Boomkin in a way. They just outright removed one of our core rotational mechanics, Arcanic Pulsar. This would give us free Celestial Alignments (mini-Incarnations, the major 3 minute DPS cooldown for Druids). But while removing it they essentially gave nothing in return. So we just lost a massive amount of power with nothing to replace it, and Incarnation is still a 3 minute cooldown.
So ye, the damage buffs they've given are nice but I'd just wanna see a reduced cooldown on Incarn (or some passive that reduces the remaining cooldown, something that Guardian already has for its Incarnation).
Getting rid of pulsar is the only good change so far. The whole spec was hamstring by it. Could never take anything that didn't synergize with it. Had to play around that window constantly. Dying with a decent amount of stacks absolutely killed your dps.
With it gone, the spec can breathe again
Removing fundamental observation from brewmasters sucks because it’s my favorite beer from Bottle Logic, who often does Blizzard themed beers, so it was cool that blizzard did a bottle logic themed talent.
If you live in SoCal and haven’t been to bottle logic, you should check it out, I highly recommend it.
Not really, glimmer had its time in BFA and I’m glad they took it out back and shot it. Shock actually healing for meaningful health and buffing spenders is fantastic news.
I swear to God a walk through at Blizzard offices would look like the below :
Every spec has a small team of like 3 people working on it for TWW, on the developer floor every spec kind of has its own little cubicle.
Shamans cubicle is deserted in the far corner and unknown to Blizzard the only developer they had actually resigned 18 months ago but no one's caree and no one's been over to that part of the room to check on them and realise they aren't actually there.
Then you have the new guy starting, he's mage developer number 100 on his first day being shown around. He asks where the mage cubicle is and the rest of the developers groan as they point upstairs to the entire seperate floor of the office dedicated just for the mage class developers. The floor has multiple times the staff, multiple times the funding and better amenities than the lower floor where all the other developers look on with envy
I dunno I'm pretty happy with it. You can still pool and dump focus with Mongoose Bite, you just don't have to do the ramp up over and over, and can be more reactive pressing other buttons without tanking your damage entirely.
Did I misunderstand this? Is timer refreshed on using mongoose. It or is it running in a 10 second instead of 15 but functioning as before? I see it's capped at 3 stacks instead of 5 but thought it worked the same.
I didn't like the current iteration of Mongoose Fury but at the same time not very thrilled about it being a buff refresh either, as you said. I can only hope that the other changes feel good enough that I won't think on it too much.
>The previous design of Mongoose Fury was rewarding you for pressing nothing but Mongoose Bite in your damage window while the new Tip of the Spear is asking you to weave in Kill Commands. These two designs were pulling your rotation in two separate directions, and these adjustments should help to harmonize these two mechanics.
The explanation is right there in the notes
I can’t tell if no one is talking about Blood and Thunder getting baked in qbecause there’s only three of us playing warrior, or if we’re trying to fly under the radar of the fun police.
Removing Death Chakram and explicitly stating it leaves room to add power and remove button bloat to hunters, while *only* buffing Survival **and** adding more talents that try to force hunters into explosive shot feels like such a slap in the face.
Steel Trap can stay gone.
Survival is looking good, but dang, BM and MM are really getting the short end of the stick right now.
in what world is BM getting the short end of the stick? Pack Leader is fucking bonkers. Also, they made more abilities buff Basilisk Collar. They removed one setup button (DC) and gave us more utility by adding an aoe stop. BM is eating very well, atm...number tuning aside.
We've still got one of the most 2-point talents in the game (5, not including base hunter) and a ton of talent bloat. We could see some talents merge together because the way they're split seems silly. Multi-shot does nothing without beast cleave, and is never used outside of to just activate beast and kill cleave.
Beastial Wrath is our best ability, and it's placed very far down the tree, with 5 nodes dedicated to adding to it. Not to mention adding Serpent Sting onto Kill Shot, an execute, and not to our main rotation like Survival (added to Mongoose Bite). Plus the 6 individual nodes that just say "kill command now does more damage" in different ways and the other 6 that are just "pressing this button resets Kill Command"
The flavor got a bit better in TWW, but they really need to stop trying to push Kill Shot and Explosive Shot in the BM talents and trim the tree a bit.
And..... Nothing for aldrachi havoc. Design is shit, izzard was told 22 buttons opener is bad, the complexity is too much by even all theorycrafters, far too punishing in a raid environment and too taxing mentally.
Still no communication and we might as well not give feedback.
Btw the design issues were highlighted during alpha in march at least.
Slowly but surely im asking myself if there will be any Prot Paladin changes. From all the Tanks in the Beta its currently the worst one, by far.
I would love to play it but its so, so bad.
I hope they pull foward the plans to have multiple character selection screens. It gonna feels major wonky if there is no options to change it on release
I did too actually, but this is probably for the best. I think glimmer is what eventually led holy Paladin to where it’s at now. It was time for it to go.
It was a fun playstyle though that I enjoyed. If holy shock becomes a fun button to press again idc what they do.
Post flair indicates this is about prerelease content. As a reminder, content on Alpha / Beta / PTR is unfinished. NPC dialogue and quest text might be missing important context. Models may be placeholders. Quest or achievement rewards may not be finalized. There are inevitably bugs. Please keep this in mind as you discuss! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> The number of character macro slots has increased to 30 (was 18). The actual big news for any class with a healing spec. I more-than-capped character macro slots with help/harm macros now being required.
I just want "class macros" as a section so when i have an alt of the same class i can put anything i like for it in there to easily find.
I have all my macros in the genersl tab. They are just named MoExpel. Or RoKick.. HunMark etc. Groups hem nice and alphabetical. And I can scavenge parts from macros I've made in the past.
U smart, I like you
You can copy macros from the wtf folder if you really want to. It's not perfect but it works
Wow didn’t even notice this, that’s fucking awesome. You’re totally right, healing practically needs help/harm, @mouseovers, and @cursors. Glad to see
Yeah I use these so much now they really need to make them UI options. I guess they do have some click to cast options that I haven’t tried now that I write this.
In the click casting menu you can make every spell mouseover.
I tried this but it never works for some reason.
Weird seem to work fine for me. I use to have mousepver macros for everything but thankfully am able to use this instead now.
Just started learning healing. What do help/harm do? I noticed when I make mouseover macros, if I’m not cursing over something, it won’t cast, even with someone selected. Is that normal?
help/harm macros are usually used to macro two spells into the same button. Help is a condition if it would heal/etc a friendly target and harm is used when it would damage a target. Mouseover macros will only cast at the mouseover. But you can make it cast after that if the first condition didn't apply So an example for both of those would be [@mouseover,nodead,help] Riptide; Flame Shock
First condition being mouseover or the first spell?
First being the mouseover. the one after is casted if you don't have a mouseover but do have a target. Course this can be expanded back to if you wanted both spells to be mouseovers then [@mouseover,nodead,help] Riptide; [@mouseover, nodead, harm] Flame Shock And then you could add another ; if you wanted to say default to Riptide yourself or something.
Thanks for explaining. Is the nodead part what activates the cast if there’s no mouseover?
Nodead just checks to see if the target is alive or not It's not wholely necessary but will help avoid errors and of course accidently targeting dead things
Ahh okay, no worries, thanks!
just FYI, mouseover casting can now be enabled by default in the settings. no need for macros for that.
Yes, but only for spells dragged from the spell book. If you want a help/harm macro to also be mouseover, you need to add mouseover conditionals to that macro.
> if I’m not cursing over something, it won’t cast, even with someone selected. Is that normal? This is almost certainly because your macro only has the conditional of 'mouseover', meaning it doesn't have any other rules it can follow if a mouseover doesn't exist. Try something like this instead /cast [@mouseover,exists,nodead][] Riptide The second, empty bracket means if the first bracket doesn't qualify, it'll go back to default behavior.
Awesome, thanks mate!
Why is it 30? Why isn't it more? Can we have tabs? Anything but a big list? Or if not that, why is the list limited?
Yea the macro UI is atrocious. There should be tabs + labeling, etc. But its probably one of those bag codes were half the game breaks if you change something
You can actually cut down on a LOT of macros by using /click macros. For example /click [help] actionButton4, actionButton5 Make sure you get the right action button names though. With this you set 1 action bar for healing, another for attacking and put your spells on those action bars. You make 12 macros that will work for every class and never make one again. The best part of this system is that you can basically edit the macro by dragging and dropping your abilities on the action bars, so If I decide I want greater heal in mends place I just swap them on the action bar and it's all set up automatically. This is imo the best system I have found, /click macros are severely underrated
I didn't read them closely, so missed this one. FUCKING HELL YES BABY!!
I wish they could have some sort of default ui system for this. Realistically I would like to see some sort of pairing of abilities, so as a resto Druid rejuve gets combined with moonfire, sunfire/lifebloom, etc.
No thanks, then we are forced into what they choose. Just use a macro
Not native but, check Clique. I have green using it for years instead of any other healing add-on xD
Pretty sure click casting I. The keybinds menu does this
Clique is what the keubind menu should be. The native one is a good addition but it is extremely limited
What else does clique add? The native one does more than enough for me, but I combine mine with /click macros to get more out of it
I'm not at home rn but, if my mind serves me well, I couldn't bind numbers nor the mouse wheel. Clique is also more handy to bind quick casts since it sits in the spellbook.
Oh I did miss scroll casting but with side buttons left and right default was enough and I use click macros so all my spells sit on one of my 6 actionbars and when I right click it selects a button on the actionbar that I can change at will.
Clique allows you to bind stuff that isn't left or right click. as an example I have many of my abilities on scroll wheel which Blizzard's implementation doesn't support. neither do they support say Q, you have to write a macro for that. honestly a very weird limitation.
Clique doesnt need the spell to be on your bars so you can help/harm without a macro and also lets your mouseovers work only on partyframes and not on models
There's an addon that allows unlimited macros and allows for extended macro functionality as well. I used to use it when I healed.
It's very useful. Helps format macros as well and shows you bad or incomplete commands. One I use is called Macro Toolkit.
Think that's the one I used to use as well. Glad to hear it's going strong still. Haven't healed any difficult content in years.
That's huge thanks for pointing it out
What macros do you use for healing?
Frost DK with all the number changes. Goodness
It's just offsetting the damage loss from strength during pillar but hopefully it'll be a good thing. Gonna miss the extra first strike cost thing though
It's certainly a good thing. As a casual player who tried to do some keys in DF with the Frost DK, I've got quite disheartened by the fact I only do actual damage during the Pillar windows. And the AoE tied to cleave felt just abysmal.
That’s not the part that’s changing it looks like. You’ll still be doing all your damage with pillar. Also I highly doubt you’re going to want to spam scythe only. You’re still going to be dnd cleaving.
At least there seem to be some other options to cleave now, tied to AA or RP spenders. Gotta check the TWW talent calc again.
iirc scythe is a long cooldown big hit now like frostwyrm, so no longer spammable, was like that when I tried out the beta at least. not sure how I feel about it tbh, I was kinda getting used to scythe spamming, lol (especially in solo/legacy content)
The new version of scythe feels really cool to use and actually just hits hard. I'm hoping with the limited talent options that we can actually take it and use it in keys, but it's definitely an aoe-centric talent
It’s bad. Was already worried about less skill expression with the new tree and they remove pillar snapshotting and Killing Efficiency rate…. Obliteration plays itself even more and breath is even more gutted
Pillar str gain was just annoying, I'd rather be able to fire off a fwf and not have to set up perfectly for max damage. Obliteration definitely doesn't just play itself, there's a huge amount of room for skill expression.
It also aligns with FWF (with AZ) very nicely, and now you can send it to start PoF if you run Riders i stead of the awkward choice of holding FWF for the last global of PoF or getting the Horsemen up for the duration. Also, with The Long Winter’s PoF extension mechanic (and you’re always taking TLW) if you didn’t get extension until the last second then you could send your FWF and it not be the last global, another odd interaction that we now avoid without the ramp gone.
Yeah it just felt bad all around esp with the new changes. Also picking CH, FsC, and FWF, you aren't pressed to smash all these buttons at the end of pillar. I'm very excited for these changes.
Agreed on the pillar ramp, I hated it since it was changed. Another thing that can mess up timings in fights
I’ve been tempted to try frost as season 1, I can’t really work out the playstyle apart from respond to procs and keep breath going. Can you talk to me about what the intent is meant to be?
Two distinct playstyles: Obliteration: meant to be a spikey, high apm, medium decision making 1-2-1-2 spam where you unload at the end of pillar with frostwyrm/frostscythe. Todays changes make the floor more consistent (you aren’t punished for low uptime and it sync with 90 sec trinkets) but pretty significantly drops the ceiling (no strength ramp is a HUGE hit) Breath: builder maintainer where you are dancing to keep runic power up for as long as you can, using horn of winter and ERW (used to snapshot with hysteria). Nerfing killing efficiency on top of all the previous RP generation has nuked this playstyle, which is very sad as it’s the only of its kind.
PoF loses the Strength ramp, but raw damage is being increased to compensate. And don’t forget, tuning doesn’t even really go final until pretty much right before launch. Buffing the abilities themselves makes FDK stronger outside of pillar, which was much needed IMO, and dampens the blow of losing the strength ramp As for BoS… no? The playstyle certainly isn’t nuked. Perma breath is going away in favor of a ~30-45 second breath window, which is *what most BoS players have been asking for*. To compensate for less time, its damage has been (and may continue to be) buffed. These FDK changes are big Ws IMO. The only thing that’s weird is PoD not aligning with ERW and BoS CDs right now, but they could be brought down to 1m30s or if you play BoS and want to keep them align just don’t take Icecap and put the point elsewhere.
I mained FDK S2-3 and you're spot on. This seems very positive to me. Switching between other classes and FDK was such a mindfuck with how useless you were outside of pillar and how important juicing every little GCD and proc inside it was. Now its still a big dps CD but you shouldn't feel like a wet noodle outside of it.
Thanks for taking the time to explain this
God damnit I leveled a frost dk because I missed insanity legion SP and now you’re telling me it’s gone
It was much more frustrating, any mechanic goes on you and Breath is fucked. Yeah it is a blast when you do get that 100% uptime but most of the time it's me going "god fucking dammit" and losing it like 20 seconds in for whatever reason. Fun as hell on bosses like Terros though. It's just healthier and overall better for the average playerbase for it to not be balanced around that huge uptime, which it had to be.
Funny they said they specifically want to keep that playstyle. I prefer Obliteration but it's a net negative they are moving away from build diversity. I can definetly see someone playing frost dk just for the breath playstyle.
At least it will be easier to tune. Kinda sad I won't be able to overlap the pillar ramp with Reaper's Mark ramp, was looking forward to trying that out in WW.
Fluid Form being obtainable by feral druids is so incredibly nice. This is the #1 change I've been hoping for. It will make ferals REALLY fun to play in PvP.
Still hope Fluid Form spells will let me use them off GCD after shapeshifting. I don't want to put my main form keybinds on my caster form...
This. Button bloat is insane on my druid, and the different shapeshift forms was (obviously) the original design for how to handle the bloat. I'd rather they just put shapeshifting onto a separate GCD.
What is fluid form again? Do druids also become elementals? Lol
Casting a bear spell from feral form shifts you to bear form for example.
A proof that cat is a liquid 🐱
Never doubted it.
Survival is about to slap
What do you like about the changes?
Not op, but not going to lie, mongoose bite losing its identity really hurts. Main thing I liked about the spec, even if I get why they changed it. Haven't looked at the tree though, so unsure.
Flanking strike change is super dumb.
HPals- we have too many cooldowns and none of them feel impactful. Blizzard- Fuck your Glimmer. I’m so confused
> Overflowing Light has been redesigned – 15% of Holy Shock’s overhealing is converted into an absorb shield. The shield amount cannot exceed 10% of your max health. I have to wonder if 15% Holy Shock overhealing now actually would have been worth more than 30% Glimmer overhealing. With Glimmer gone and excessive cooldowns remaining, HPal seems like a more boring Holy Priest.
That’s also way down the tree in the current build. I’ll have to see an updated talent tree. It’s just very odd. Glimmer was mostly liked by Hpals. From a pure size of the shield standpoint, the old talent was giving 15% of max HP.
Glimmer is super hard to balance around, plus it is a lot to track if you want to play optimally in raid. It got to the point where your spenders weren't worth casting. Removing glimmer allows Blizz to buff their active healing kit. The people that like Glimmer liked the BfA version of it when it was buffed and OP. The Glimmer that existed until now was a shadow of its BfA form.
Hard agree. Glimmers were fine in dungeons but in raids it was always difficult to get good value out of the glimmers, short of raid-wide damage. I haven’t done a deep dive into my logs but I suspect I lost a lot of healing due to glimmers being on the “wrong” targets and overhealing. I would much rather have my spenders be actually valuable. It feels really bad to release a Word of Glory and it heals for 200k. Whoop.
Mostly liked? I don't know the paladins you talk to but the holy paladin discord rejoiced when they saw that Glimmer was removed.
They really want to push us away from the instant cast playstyle it seems and back into the caster playstyle (if you look at the previous changes to the caster build)
Ironically removing Glimmer, along with a lot of the Avenging Wrath related buffs, just seems to buff Avenging Crusader.
Was already good when the sun hero talent was cracked before they nerfed it. Getting that massive burst of healing on a minute CD was nuts
They buffed holy shock and spenders, which is a step in the right direction
Holy priest is right there for people who want that lol
Yeah the more I read the glimmer removal the more I hate it, they literally replaced glimmer with a small, one-time shield from holy shock. :|
Not really? They removed glimmer but buffed the healing output of other spells, namely Holy Shock The shield talent is just a conversion from glimmer to holy shock, and it doesn't matter much because that talent was kinda trash and it will continue to be trash
Why do you think that? They removed glimmer but buffed holy shock to compensate, they've tied some new effects to judgment and now you can even reduce its cooldown they buffed avenging crusader they've buffed WoG and LoD and the new Hero Talents are both based on instant casts Probably not enough to completely replace casting, but it seems they want to keep a hybrid playstyle and not necessarily push it in either direction
>I have to wonder if 15% Holy Shock overhealing now actually would have been worth more than 30% Glimmer overhealing. Probably not. A big problem with that talent today is that it only last 8 seconds With no haste Holy Shock is on a 9 secs recharge time Meaning it becomes very hard to stack it up properly, even when you have high haste So you run into 1 of 2 situations, either theres constant damage going out and so you're not overhealing and no shield is being applied Or there isn't too much damage, you're overhealing, but now you're constantly spamming holy shock on CD to keep that shield going. And if you miss by a second or two the shield drops and you lose it And holy shock actually has a disadvantage here, with glimmer applying the shield, if no one needs healing you can just shock an enemy and the shield will build up passively through your glimmers. But now being tied to Holy Shock means you have to waste it as overhealing if you want to keep a shield going I'd be very surprised if this talent contributes even 1% to overall healing
They should have just replaced the talent with the shock barrier legendary from Shadowlands, so HS would provide a shield no matter what. With how little HS heals for, a shield based on overheating seems underwhelming.
They buffed HS when they removed glimmer, so it might actually start to be noticeable But yeah, shielding on overhealing is pretty bad for direct healing spells because your goal is always to minimize overhealing and use the appropriate spell for the right situation Ideally they would reserve this mechanic for things like HoTs, where a lot of times you get sniped and they end up overhealing a lot on their own As is, this talent is pretty much dead in the water, but it doesn't matter too much since it was already kind bad and we have other talents that we want to get
Glimmer has been a reason I've not played the spec for awhile personally Felt like all the work of Disc but with way less payoff, just let me fucking heal without ramping
Glimmer being gone is a cool change for sure. Hpal is looking like a definite alt for me now
I also kinda hate the whole "spread this thing around and keep up all the buffs for optimal heals" gameplay, so I've been using the "Glimmer can only affect 1 target, with +40% effect". With the singletarget Glimmer, it's pretty much just a buff to your Holy Shock, as 2nd cast in a row will heal a ton (as it also triggers the Glimmer). Also, with increased effect of Glimmer (and the fact that the effect doesn't spread): the triple-holyshock effect after Daybreak gets a nice buff for singletarget burst heals. So, I pretty much just ignore Glimmer, consider Holy Shock a "two cast combo for max heal", and shit's fine. I won't miss Glimmer, but I'm still a bit surprised that they just went and removed it. :D
I have always hated Glimmer, it just does what beacons do but on more targets and then got beacon/shock/everything else nerfed over and over because of its tuning. Now I can focus on healing targets that need heals and not making sure the glimmer icon is on enough people before I daybreak (also gone yay!) I am so excited for the changes.
Honestly agree. You you want a bunch of buffs on allies before you pop cooldowns. Well that's every healing spec
Only for proactive healers. Reactive ones don't need it. Hpal was always reactive one (except for applying beacon which you do and forget) before they made it proactive with all ramps that it shouldn't (imho) have. I like dopamine burst version of hpal with strong holy shocks, strong healing spells, strong spenders, strong reactive cooldowns. If they made hpal holy priest then now its disc priest. I hope gameplay will be more fun with all those changes. It seems to me that mechanics are better (for me) but it depends on numbers. With good numbers I prefer nonglimmer version. Panda and cata hpal are my favorite ones.
WoD was my HPal jam. First time I got AotC
I think it was kinda the same as in pandas but I skipped wod. But what I definitely remember is that I completely stopped playing hpal in legion. It was completely different from all perspectives spec. Not that holy knight with book (even thought they basically added this animation in legion if I remember right😆)
This. THIS. You got an award sir because I couldn’t express it better than you did.
100% I aboslutely hate this APM play style in raid where its feel you're just doing aim training session in CS (Aimlabs or something), if you accidently hit a person who already had glimmer it feels bad, and also the fact it feels like it does 0 healing, because they're so small and they had to nerf Holy shock to do negative healing to compensate how much glimmer did.
Daybreak was my favorite CD wtf
the best part of daybreak, the repeating holy shocks, is still there
SHAMANS!!! How we feeling!!!????
Apprehensive
“Check out these sweet mythic plus changes!!!” Oh this is awesome they’re cooking! I wonder what they did for shaman. “…totems”
Shaman package has been confirmed for next week
Shh don't tell anyone, you might hit the r/wow meme economy too hard. I wonder which class is going to take the crown for most neglected once Shaman get their updates
Rogue. 100%. They're already creeping in the weeds of the shaman posts if you look for them
Last week I said if people look at the pattern of classes getting no changes for long periods of time, they tend to get huge reworks - a new one every few weeks. Mages and Warlocks got it earlier, then Hunters recently. I predicted Shaman next in a couple of weeks. I got downvoted, called condescending things like chief, because how could I possibly dare to use logic and basic understanding of design to go against the great whine of r/wow. I’m happy for Shaman players that the evil Blizzard cabal wasn’t intentionally ignoring them for laughs (genuinely, people here believe this) but I am going to be very self satisfied that I can think I told you so to these ridiculous sorts of people.
'Chief' is condescending in your world?
“hate to break it to you chief but” Yeah it is
🤷♂️I guess you're easily offended.
I don’t think offended is correct. Feeling someone is being condescending when they’re wrong? The sort of reaction is more like a mental eye roll I suppose. It’s more that I was taking the time to explain something pretty reasonable (and already demonstrable) but getting a condescending reply from someone telling me I was obviously wrong. Which made me think of the person as a bit dense. And then a week later the exact thing I said was going to happen happened, proving me right. Which is rather satisfying. It can be enjoyable to tell some stranger that is not thinking straight and telling you you’re wrong that in fact they are wrong and being able to prove it =D
Ehh, Chief is like primarily used in a condescending way especially on the internet in arguments. Actually forget that, besides referring to an actual Chief, like paid position, it’s used completely condescendingly in real life too. You’re trying to argue it’s not like a labeled BAD word, but that’s not the point, bad argument imo. I’d challenge anyone to find me a comment when someone refers somone else as chief in a non-condescending way, basically another word for tough guy at this point.
Wait Warlock is going to be getting reworked? I haven't been keeping up with the beta stuff as much, could you please link me what is changing with them?
They have had huge changes to all specs since early in the beta. Entire new spells, dozens of talent tree changes. Removals and additions. They have had more work done to them than most. (Demonology the most, then Destruction, less so for Affliction.) You’d have to go through the blue posts week by week it’s interesting if you are interested in design!
They announce ‘major changes’ coming soon, so we gotta hope they’ll be good. I wanna say any changes are welcome at this point, but I really hope they don’t fuck anything up
Hoping we only have to spin 3 plates instead of 9
... this is a large portion of the community btw lol
The change to surging totem for resto basically just turns it into an instant cast, longer lasting, and stronger healing rain. With Totemic Projection, you will be able to move it with a 10 second CD so you should be able to keep it in a good position. So instead of hard casting healing rain every 10 seconds, you instant cast it every 24 seconds, with an option to move it on a 10 second CD. Hopeful for the rest of the changes coming, but don't exactly have a ton of faith in it being anything too major.
[Holy shit Glimmer is fucking dead, you will not be missed, and Holy shock actually gonna do healing now? for the love of god give me back my legion holy paladin ](https://gyazo.com/276669a5d3ebb3e4d90a91bf41772776)
You might wanna remove this before Blizzard sees it and detects hope and/or fun
Lol, we are on an upwards trend here. Let’s hope Blizzard keeps it up. Also, I am happy they are buffing the Lightbringer stuff because it makes me also feel like a buff bot which I always enjoy in other games.
I'm so scared. I had finally sat down and decided on my main for TWW. Then they come in and execute Glimmer. Now Paladin is looking at me all sexy across the aisle again.
lol this is my problem right here. Hate glimmer and finally decided to just Shaman main.. then this. Idk what to do.
Co-main Sham and HPal. Both are amazingly immersive as proper mains in my biased opinion.
Glad to see mages had many changes again, might've felt left out.
And it's never like a few lines. It has to be 7 paragraphs long, taking a quarter of the total changes among the 30 something specs. Every. Single. Week. For months now.
This week it’s pretty much all nerfs. Which is fair becauses mages, especially fire, are way overtuned right now. It’s funny to see a fire mage doing more dmg than the rest of their group combined though..
Okay tell me how I should feel about arcane because I don't know what talents the new ones are replacing. I dont see any removed talents but have to assume there are some. I can understand the changes to proc rates on clearcasting just fine, but does this force the tree into pure ST and AoE builds? Are talents in bad spots or unreachable?
[Here's a talent tree if you want](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-calc/mage/arcane)
Ah yes those lucky mages getting 7 paragraphs of substantial nerfs! If only everyone could get such things every patch! I have said this before (last week, I got downvoted for it despite being correct) that iterative tuning to the extent that Magi and Warlocks are getting patch after patch is very easy to do and takes far less time than more substantial design changes. Hunters had nothing for months and now they have huge changes every week. They’ll continue getting smaller changes each week from now until end of Beta. How long until people complain about that? People have such chips on their shoulders for classes that aren’t their mains getting good design, maybe some need to go outside and stop being so miserable. “How *dare* a class I don’t play continue to be worked on!”
If this tuning is so easy, why haven't other classes (ALL of them, not just the ones I like) also have that kind of attention throughout the Alpha/Beta? Infernal/Rift was bounced back and forth more than other classes have gotten a new *talent connection*. MM had a rework released 2 weeks ago and has had zero shifts in how it's tree is built, being completely left out of the notes last week and having only damage/cost tuning this week. BM has had few changes, some tuning and some bug-fixes, while Survival is the only Hunter spec with significant changes week to week, which is understandable as it's had the most substantial rework. >People have such chips on their shoulders for classes that aren’t their mains getting good design, maybe some need to go outside and stop being so miserable. I'm not sure how you can even type this in any good faith. Yeah, in a game where your vehicle to experience it is your class everyone should get good design, of course people are getting bent because of this. Why wouldn't someone want their class to have attention and iteration in the most overtly testing phase of an expansion, and then feel slighted when they watch it happen to others with nothing for them as time runs out? I get the devs are humans and there are unfortunately deadlines, but it doesn't feel right to have a select few show up that much in notes compared to others.
Blizzard likes mages more than Nintendo likes charizard
If you read them they are pretty much all bad or nerfs, be careful what you wish for
Basically where I am with my class. No buffs are whatever, espcially since buffs get overtuned and then nerfed. No nerfs are great. Happy to sit exactly where we are.
They were being sarcastic lol
Nah they weren’t. See the second reply to the comment and how many upvotes it has. They mentioned mages feeling “left out” which was sarcasm because mages get changed a lot. The OP and the second reply didn’t read that the changes were nerfs before whining, in true Redditor fashion
Removing Death Chakram from Hunters to reduce button bloat is great. Stating youre also doing it because it will let you bake it's power into each spec itself, and then not posting how you're doing that, is not great.
MM, which is already usually Focus starved on AoE, lost a big chunk of Focus generation thanks to Death Chakram being gone AND had Multi-shot Focus cost increased
I thought it was just because I was haste stacked as fuck from gearing as surv but playing some keys as MM on retail lately and in AoE I find myself casting steady shot just completely out of resource so much and that’s gotta be the worst feeling especially in AoE casting a zero damage filler that hits 1 target
a lot of people who played beta MM said they were focus flooded constantly. this change is to counteract that. will it be good? no idea, but yeah that's why they made the change for sure.
Normal cycle would be to remove it, figure out what to buff with data gathered w/o the spell, then apply the buffs, right?
With the move to make Flanking Strike passive, I feel that this went a bit too far with button pruning for Survival. It’s super easy to make the rotation basically just be Mongoose Bite + Wildfire Bomb + Kill Command
I honestly didn't feel particularly button bloated on any of the hunter specs. At least the core rotations weren't outliers (compared to eG ww, affliction, enhance or so). Saying it's one of the biggest complains feels a bit cherry picked. Idk, I've liked chakram. An idea would've been to make it a choice node with explosive shot, which would've been interesting with its resets but arguably harder to tune. Either way, I'd rather have them take a look at general hunter group utility, twice for specifically for survival at that. The fancy changes they do are all great but in the end surv is still doing the same thing as other hunters do just in a already more contested melee slot... And hunters in general already provide very little to groups. They even removed sentinel owl, which was useless sure but still theoretically some group utility.
I mean that’s what it is now on retail, flank every 30 and chak every 45, ST just adds spearhead every 1:30 and bingo bango that’s the rotation
It also gave another tuning knob. Not that it was used as much... Personally I won't miss it.
My hypothesis is the button pruning is Microsoft preparing for a console release of WoW. They added in native controller support this expansion.
I feel like they really want us to use explosive shot in its place, given them adding *another* talent that buffs it.
I really like that ability for my MM nelf cause it felt like a proper sentinel ability. Removing it just as they’re adding an actual sentinel hero spec feels odd to me. I’m gonna miss it
I actually liked pressing Death Chakram. I just enjoyed the visual. Ah well. The change to Mongoose Fury is fantastic though!
The change on Surging totem is good and necessary, good job listening Blizzard! Can't wait for the shaman changes on top of this one
Did we not like Surging Totem before? I liked the auto HRs that you could just throw down on CD.
The random aspect of the totem casting healing rain sometimes not where or when you wanted it was a bad design. Here you can put here where you want and relocate it easily, good change. Though I would have preferred this change : When casting surging totem, your healing rain become instant and stronger, so you can be like a RDrood! And still have flexibility on the localisation of your healing rain
If other classes had half the amount of attention mages got we’d be in a much better place lmao
Isn't this the 2nd time fury has gotten a flat out % increase on all damage done on the beta?
Stuff like that really isn't uncommon. Especially when they are done with the Gameplay changes. It's also like the third time they nerfed fire numbers.
Welp, glad they're addressing Balance Druid being dogshit after the semi-rework, but I don't see this being hardly enough. Especially when Boomie gets a 5% blanket buff and another 15% to core spells, while other "fucked" specs like Fury and Arms just get a straight 30%. Doesn't change the fact either that losing Pulsar just still sucks in a major way. Atleast they're aware they've absolutely cocked it. So there's that.
Fury pretty much had its core build broken and now they are very aggressively tuning it back up (after that 30% its now at a +50% aura buff) so it kinda makes sense.
I mean ye I'm not disagreeing with it. But same goes for Boomkin in a way. They just outright removed one of our core rotational mechanics, Arcanic Pulsar. This would give us free Celestial Alignments (mini-Incarnations, the major 3 minute DPS cooldown for Druids). But while removing it they essentially gave nothing in return. So we just lost a massive amount of power with nothing to replace it, and Incarnation is still a 3 minute cooldown. So ye, the damage buffs they've given are nice but I'd just wanna see a reduced cooldown on Incarn (or some passive that reduces the remaining cooldown, something that Guardian already has for its Incarnation).
Getting rid of pulsar is the only good change so far. The whole spec was hamstring by it. Could never take anything that didn't synergize with it. Had to play around that window constantly. Dying with a decent amount of stacks absolutely killed your dps. With it gone, the spec can breathe again
Removing fundamental observation from brewmasters sucks because it’s my favorite beer from Bottle Logic, who often does Blizzard themed beers, so it was cool that blizzard did a bottle logic themed talent. If you live in SoCal and haven’t been to bottle logic, you should check it out, I highly recommend it.
Damn how much is fire mage pumping? I dont have beta access but i swear its getting pretty big nerf almost every patch notes.
big pumping. Living bomb was insane from what i have seen.
I see. Hope it doesnt get absolutely obliterated before hitting live.
Those are bizarre holy pala changes OR they’re cooking and we’re not aware of their 4d chess skills 😬
Not really, glimmer had its time in BFA and I’m glad they took it out back and shot it. Shock actually healing for meaningful health and buffing spenders is fantastic news.
You’re probably right. Just saw the talent tree and it’s better than I expected.
I swear to God a walk through at Blizzard offices would look like the below : Every spec has a small team of like 3 people working on it for TWW, on the developer floor every spec kind of has its own little cubicle. Shamans cubicle is deserted in the far corner and unknown to Blizzard the only developer they had actually resigned 18 months ago but no one's caree and no one's been over to that part of the room to check on them and realise they aren't actually there. Then you have the new guy starting, he's mage developer number 100 on his first day being shown around. He asks where the mage cubicle is and the rest of the developers groan as they point upstairs to the entire seperate floor of the office dedicated just for the mage class developers. The floor has multiple times the staff, multiple times the funding and better amenities than the lower floor where all the other developers look on with envy
Why'd they remove glimmer? Also I am a bit concerned they removed Daybreak as well but didn't bump mana costs down overall.
They did reduce mana costs at least a little, they just didn't include it in the blue posts because they leave stuff out now for some reason.
That's likely what the mana refund talent is for. (4k per proc per the datamined changes)
Mana pools seem to have been bumped to 2.5 million 4k seem like a drop in the bucket but they're probably not finished tuning the values
As the only survival hunter, I dont like the mongoose fury changes. Now it’s just effectively a buff to refresh.
I dunno I'm pretty happy with it. You can still pool and dump focus with Mongoose Bite, you just don't have to do the ramp up over and over, and can be more reactive pressing other buttons without tanking your damage entirely.
Ya, fair
Did I misunderstand this? Is timer refreshed on using mongoose. It or is it running in a 10 second instead of 15 but functioning as before? I see it's capped at 3 stacks instead of 5 but thought it worked the same.
“Mongoose Fury now refreshes its duration when a new stack is applied.” Completely changes it
I didn't like the current iteration of Mongoose Fury but at the same time not very thrilled about it being a buff refresh either, as you said. I can only hope that the other changes feel good enough that I won't think on it too much.
Yeah I'm with you. The Mongoose Bite burst windows are a big part of what makes Survival interesting IMO. I DO NOT understand this change.
>The previous design of Mongoose Fury was rewarding you for pressing nothing but Mongoose Bite in your damage window while the new Tip of the Spear is asking you to weave in Kill Commands. These two designs were pulling your rotation in two separate directions, and these adjustments should help to harmonize these two mechanics. The explanation is right there in the notes
God dammit they are Doubling down on the lone wolf nerf. I hoped they would finally fix lone wolf but nope
I can’t tell if no one is talking about Blood and Thunder getting baked in qbecause there’s only three of us playing warrior, or if we’re trying to fly under the radar of the fun police.
Shamans got 100% more blue notes since the last time. Let's go!
Removing Death Chakram and explicitly stating it leaves room to add power and remove button bloat to hunters, while *only* buffing Survival **and** adding more talents that try to force hunters into explosive shot feels like such a slap in the face. Steel Trap can stay gone. Survival is looking good, but dang, BM and MM are really getting the short end of the stick right now.
in what world is BM getting the short end of the stick? Pack Leader is fucking bonkers. Also, they made more abilities buff Basilisk Collar. They removed one setup button (DC) and gave us more utility by adding an aoe stop. BM is eating very well, atm...number tuning aside.
We've still got one of the most 2-point talents in the game (5, not including base hunter) and a ton of talent bloat. We could see some talents merge together because the way they're split seems silly. Multi-shot does nothing without beast cleave, and is never used outside of to just activate beast and kill cleave. Beastial Wrath is our best ability, and it's placed very far down the tree, with 5 nodes dedicated to adding to it. Not to mention adding Serpent Sting onto Kill Shot, an execute, and not to our main rotation like Survival (added to Mongoose Bite). Plus the 6 individual nodes that just say "kill command now does more damage" in different ways and the other 6 that are just "pressing this button resets Kill Command" The flavor got a bit better in TWW, but they really need to stop trying to push Kill Shot and Explosive Shot in the BM talents and trim the tree a bit.
Rogues got buffed? I am still apprehensive.
Glimmer of light and daybreak gone lets fucking go
And..... Nothing for aldrachi havoc. Design is shit, izzard was told 22 buttons opener is bad, the complexity is too much by even all theorycrafters, far too punishing in a raid environment and too taxing mentally. Still no communication and we might as well not give feedback. Btw the design issues were highlighted during alpha in march at least.
Ctrl + F Feral No result
First time?
Slowly but surely im asking myself if there will be any Prot Paladin changes. From all the Tanks in the Beta its currently the worst one, by far. I would love to play it but its so, so bad.
I hope they pull foward the plans to have multiple character selection screens. It gonna feels major wonky if there is no options to change it on release
But I liked Glimmer!
I did too actually, but this is probably for the best. I think glimmer is what eventually led holy Paladin to where it’s at now. It was time for it to go. It was a fun playstyle though that I enjoyed. If holy shock becomes a fun button to press again idc what they do.
Wow look at those shaman changes! Awesome!
Imagine being this stupid