I was begging for the removal of some of them from windwalker when I was playing last.
Bone dust brew was pure button bloat on a character that already had plenty of set up for AoE, and Jade fire stomp was annoying as it encouraged you to stand still on a character that is built around movement. Re reading it sounds like they changed it a little?
White tiger statue is also annoying and absolutely unsatisfying button to press.
I haven’t followed the expansion development but are any of those being removed?
I liked the stomp for mistweaver a lot but it never worked well for WW.
BDB has been removed.
Jadefire Stomp no longer resets/encourage you to sit in it and is no longer a button. It's just triggered at the end of Fists of Fury now.
Derp Tiger is no longer a button and is now summoned automatically when you Invoke Xuen.
I never really had a problem with the number of keybinds for brew or ww, it only became an issue if I had 2 on use trinkets.
Going from Retail to TWW though, I feel like I'm missing so much. So many abilities got made passive. I keep hitting Expel Harm out of habit.
Did expel harm get changed as well? I would be sad if that got made passive too.
But I definitely felt like there was too much prep time before especially AoE before. Single target wasn’t as bad but the old stomp was annoying.
BDB, that stomp and the statue being gone or passive I wholeheartedly celebrate but I would mourn any more than that.
-EH for WW is passive : you talent into it being passive, but not talenting into it would skip SEF and Xu'en; it's still an active ability for Brew.
-Chi Wave is a passive on the class tree, shared with Chi burst, which is still an active ability, but on a reactive proc (so not on command) ; the tooltip on it for Brewmaster doesn't indicate it's a reactive proc, but it certainly works the same way.
I do agree that losing the statues is a big win; I actually really liked BDB and stomp, WoO is just so much better for Brewm though.
Depends on the ability tbh. I'm sure not many people were sad to see anything like the paladin necrolord ability go but good luck taking divine toll away from them now.
We still have the necrolord paladin ability as a passive for holy. The talent that makes your judgement cast your aoe heal once every 30 seconds or so.
They also need to remove Lava Burst for enhancement, or make it replace lightning bolt (literally or effectively). It sucks so much to have 2-3 spells competing for the same resource.
I personally like it for Enhancement, feels great to use but I know it sucks for the other two specs. There's a chance it gets looked at next week with the Shaman changes they've said are coming (inb4 3 changes which at this point would be extensive)
If it went then so be it, if it stayed for just Enhancement then great, if it was replaced with Chain Harvest then ohhh mama, we'll be eating good
It still does shadow damage, which doesn’t fit the class at all. It does pitiful damage to a single target. If you really needed more access to flame shock, giving it a second charge would be infinitely more useful than using a 45 second cooldown that needs another f’ing keybind.
It sounds like you want to retain the LB splitting ability. That’s fine, it can be baked into a passive or another ability. The keybind is clunky. The spec has ~15 offensive, non-utility keybinds. Ret, since you compared the two, has 7-8
I don't think there is a one for all answer for this.
Some covenant ablities fit very nicely with certains specs/classes, and some were dead on arrival even back in SL.
Shifting power for mages or divine bell for paladins worked well for example and were nice to keep around.
its like you say button bloat is a real issue for some classes. I think i would prefer for htem to use dual nodes for these sort of abilities though. Like can death chakram fit on the same node as explosive shot maybe ?
I like some of the abilities, but if they're looking to reduce button bloat then covenant abilities are some of the least iconic and most thematically awkward buttons that they could easily get rid of.
Less button bloat is a good thing in this game.
I think SL and DF was long enough to work out which ones worked and fitted in to the game well. So them removing a few of them with the intention of making a more enjoyable gaming experience, isn't a bad thing.
I agree that certains classes have an issue with too many buttons, but certainly not the hunter!
And I really liked the chakram as a night elf, it looked like a moonglaive :'(
I am surprise you say this.
I tend to organise by type and macro my spells for all the classes and I noticed both the Hunter and Rogue need extra space for all those extra abilities.
I guess I've counted how many empty slots I can add to separate spells type, and it wasn't too bad on my BM hunter. It's even better on my Ret, but I made a restau shaman on Remix and I have no place at all to make nice separations! \^\^
Most of the time I hear that sentiment from hunters that never use any personal defensivs, disengage, binding shot/scatter shot, intimitation, missdirection, counter shot, traps, feign death, etc...
Well, I guess I should have been less categorical. I can fit all my spells into 3 bars, with a few empty slots to make separations between spells type. Sure, the Ret or evoker have fewer buttons.
I found this particularly obvious compared to the classes I just recently level up in remix (restau shaman, arcane mage), where I really had trouble organising everything.
Good and bad. Some suck and some are a perfect match. Like Abom limb, Divine toll, and The Hunt are almost iconic for me at this point, but things like Death Chakram and Primordial Wave were just "this is good numerically" abilities for me
Considering some are getting the opposite treatment and are only nesting themselves deeper, like jadefire stomp and a demon hunter's the hunt with animation changes and such. And I think if they were to remove divine toll or abomination limb there'd be riots in the streets
A lot of the covenant abilities suffered from having to be designed to work for specs that did different things, and even then on the pure DPS classes a lot of them weren't interesting. I'm glad the only warlock one they really kept was Soul Rot and only for the spec that could really utilize it well. I think other classes could stand to have some removed
There are some that were really cool which didn’t make the cut for DF. Vesper totem was fun. The kyrian druid one was interesting. The venthyr druid one was a lot of fun with guardian, balance, and resto. I personally enjoyed the night fae shaman channel. Faeline stomp for MW is pretty iconic at this point.
But we retained total duds as well. Bonedust brew? Primordial wave? I don’t really understand why they didn’t scrap all the boring ones and only keep the really distinct abilities that stood out.
I was a shaman main for the whole of SL and I must say, apart from the visuals, the NF did nothing for each spec. It had no interaction with any of the specs and was weird to use. It was just tuned high.
Kyrian and Venthyr at least played on the class fantasy and Primordial had an actual interaction with the specs.
Yeah, i am not a shaman main, but i never "clicked" with primordial wave.
The Hunt for DHs is also rather iconic by now I'd say. I also think it's good that they got rid of the old covenant spell animations. It really didn't fit some classes.
Bonedust Brew is at least gone in TWW.
Also Faeline Stomp doesn't exist, it's Jadefirse Stomp now 🤓☝
I'm not a big shaman player, but Primo wave is a highlight in my books, turning a single target ability into AoE just feels very fun and powerful to me. With resto shaman it gets annoying to use in combination with undulation, but even then I like using it
It's just "enhanced flame shock" it could accomplish the same thing by giving flame shock an extra charge and some passive node that makes lava burst cleave.
Mostly glad, there were more shallow ones than ones that had any nuance. Only some that were interesting were kept, but only some that were uninteresting were removed
I'd gladly trade Shifting Power for the return of Mirrors of Torment, that one at least actually had a skill element.
I don’t have much love for any Covenant abilities, except Abominations Limb for Death Knights. But even that I don’t mind losing in favor of having less button bloat across the board.
Good riddance on Mindgames in PVE. It has interesting uses in PVP, but in PVE it's just button bloat.
I've stopped playing with it every since they announced it was removed because I hate this button so much. Can't wait for prepatch.
I was begging for the removal of some of them from windwalker when I was playing last. Bone dust brew was pure button bloat on a character that already had plenty of set up for AoE, and Jade fire stomp was annoying as it encouraged you to stand still on a character that is built around movement. Re reading it sounds like they changed it a little? White tiger statue is also annoying and absolutely unsatisfying button to press. I haven’t followed the expansion development but are any of those being removed? I liked the stomp for mistweaver a lot but it never worked well for WW.
BDB has been removed. Jadefire Stomp no longer resets/encourage you to sit in it and is no longer a button. It's just triggered at the end of Fists of Fury now. Derp Tiger is no longer a button and is now summoned automatically when you Invoke Xuen.
Thank you! Sounds like good changes.
I never really had a problem with the number of keybinds for brew or ww, it only became an issue if I had 2 on use trinkets. Going from Retail to TWW though, I feel like I'm missing so much. So many abilities got made passive. I keep hitting Expel Harm out of habit.
Did expel harm get changed as well? I would be sad if that got made passive too. But I definitely felt like there was too much prep time before especially AoE before. Single target wasn’t as bad but the old stomp was annoying. BDB, that stomp and the statue being gone or passive I wholeheartedly celebrate but I would mourn any more than that.
-EH for WW is passive : you talent into it being passive, but not talenting into it would skip SEF and Xu'en; it's still an active ability for Brew. -Chi Wave is a passive on the class tree, shared with Chi burst, which is still an active ability, but on a reactive proc (so not on command) ; the tooltip on it for Brewmaster doesn't indicate it's a reactive proc, but it certainly works the same way. I do agree that losing the statues is a big win; I actually really liked BDB and stomp, WoO is just so much better for Brewm though.
Depends on the ability tbh. I'm sure not many people were sad to see anything like the paladin necrolord ability go but good luck taking divine toll away from them now.
If divine toll ever gets removed, I'm retiring my prot paladin.
Something something “whom the bell tolls it tolls for thee”
We still have the necrolord paladin ability as a passive for holy. The talent that makes your judgement cast your aoe heal once every 30 seconds or so.
And Ret too.
D-D-DOOOONG
I just read that they removed hunter's Death Chakram and am disappointed tbh
Likewise, I like that ability.
Fingers crossed they remove prim wave for shaman as well!
They also need to remove Lava Burst for enhancement, or make it replace lightning bolt (literally or effectively). It sucks so much to have 2-3 spells competing for the same resource.
I wish but it's not gonna happen, it's mandatory for the Farseer hero talents (I hate the lava burst centric gameplay so never gonna touch that).
I personally like it for Enhancement, feels great to use but I know it sucks for the other two specs. There's a chance it gets looked at next week with the Shaman changes they've said are coming (inb4 3 changes which at this point would be extensive) If it went then so be it, if it stayed for just Enhancement then great, if it was replaced with Chain Harvest then ohhh mama, we'll be eating good
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You don’t really need a second flame shock, and they can move the LB split to another ability, or make it passive. The ability sucks to press.
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It still does shadow damage, which doesn’t fit the class at all. It does pitiful damage to a single target. If you really needed more access to flame shock, giving it a second charge would be infinitely more useful than using a 45 second cooldown that needs another f’ing keybind.
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Of course not. It’s a much more impactful ability, and is off the GCD. This would be like if Judgement had a 45 second cooldown.
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It sounds like you want to retain the LB splitting ability. That’s fine, it can be baked into a passive or another ability. The keybind is clunky. The spec has ~15 offensive, non-utility keybinds. Ret, since you compared the two, has 7-8
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I don't think there is a one for all answer for this. Some covenant ablities fit very nicely with certains specs/classes, and some were dead on arrival even back in SL. Shifting power for mages or divine bell for paladins worked well for example and were nice to keep around.
its like you say button bloat is a real issue for some classes. I think i would prefer for htem to use dual nodes for these sort of abilities though. Like can death chakram fit on the same node as explosive shot maybe ?
Take out the boring ones that are just buttons, cool with me, Mindgames mega sucks in pve content, it is just a boring button... now Convoke....
I like some of the abilities, but if they're looking to reduce button bloat then covenant abilities are some of the least iconic and most thematically awkward buttons that they could easily get rid of.
I'm still mad they kept Death Chakram and not Resonating Arrow (Kyrian's).
Less button bloat is a good thing in this game. I think SL and DF was long enough to work out which ones worked and fitted in to the game well. So them removing a few of them with the intention of making a more enjoyable gaming experience, isn't a bad thing.
Not happy with the removal of adaptive swarm from resto druid in tww, i think now only feral has it
I agree that certains classes have an issue with too many buttons, but certainly not the hunter! And I really liked the chakram as a night elf, it looked like a moonglaive :'(
I am surprise you say this. I tend to organise by type and macro my spells for all the classes and I noticed both the Hunter and Rogue need extra space for all those extra abilities.
I guess I've counted how many empty slots I can add to separate spells type, and it wasn't too bad on my BM hunter. It's even better on my Ret, but I made a restau shaman on Remix and I have no place at all to make nice separations! \^\^
Most of the time I hear that sentiment from hunters that never use any personal defensivs, disengage, binding shot/scatter shot, intimitation, missdirection, counter shot, traps, feign death, etc...
Well, I guess I should have been less categorical. I can fit all my spells into 3 bars, with a few empty slots to make separations between spells type. Sure, the Ret or evoker have fewer buttons. I found this particularly obvious compared to the classes I just recently level up in remix (restau shaman, arcane mage), where I really had trouble organising everything.
Good and bad. Some suck and some are a perfect match. Like Abom limb, Divine toll, and The Hunt are almost iconic for me at this point, but things like Death Chakram and Primordial Wave were just "this is good numerically" abilities for me
I've leveled a couple hunters in DF and the chackram just feel like a bunch of nothing xD
Considering some are getting the opposite treatment and are only nesting themselves deeper, like jadefire stomp and a demon hunter's the hunt with animation changes and such. And I think if they were to remove divine toll or abomination limb there'd be riots in the streets
A lot of the covenant abilities suffered from having to be designed to work for specs that did different things, and even then on the pure DPS classes a lot of them weren't interesting. I'm glad the only warlock one they really kept was Soul Rot and only for the spec that could really utilize it well. I think other classes could stand to have some removed
Soul Rot sucks as well. doesnt fit warlocks at all.
Imo at least it's a dot so it fits Affliction kinda, imagine if they saved Decimating Bolt or smth
As a DK in SL, I liked Fleshcraft more than Abomination Limb. I miss it.
Yes, totally good. get rid of all of them. none of those will be missed.
Divine toll and convoke would like a word with you…
There are some that were really cool which didn’t make the cut for DF. Vesper totem was fun. The kyrian druid one was interesting. The venthyr druid one was a lot of fun with guardian, balance, and resto. I personally enjoyed the night fae shaman channel. Faeline stomp for MW is pretty iconic at this point. But we retained total duds as well. Bonedust brew? Primordial wave? I don’t really understand why they didn’t scrap all the boring ones and only keep the really distinct abilities that stood out.
I was a shaman main for the whole of SL and I must say, apart from the visuals, the NF did nothing for each spec. It had no interaction with any of the specs and was weird to use. It was just tuned high. Kyrian and Venthyr at least played on the class fantasy and Primordial had an actual interaction with the specs.
Yeah, i am not a shaman main, but i never "clicked" with primordial wave. The Hunt for DHs is also rather iconic by now I'd say. I also think it's good that they got rid of the old covenant spell animations. It really didn't fit some classes. Bonedust Brew is at least gone in TWW. Also Faeline Stomp doesn't exist, it's Jadefirse Stomp now 🤓☝
I'm not a big shaman player, but Primo wave is a highlight in my books, turning a single target ability into AoE just feels very fun and powerful to me. With resto shaman it gets annoying to use in combination with undulation, but even then I like using it
It's just "enhanced flame shock" it could accomplish the same thing by giving flame shock an extra charge and some passive node that makes lava burst cleave.
Good riddance. Pulling arrows out of my ass is uncomfortable enough.
Mostly glad, there were more shallow ones than ones that had any nuance. Only some that were interesting were kept, but only some that were uninteresting were removed I'd gladly trade Shifting Power for the return of Mirrors of Torment, that one at least actually had a skill element.
apart from Convoke on balance druid, I never enjoyed any covenant ability
Divine Toll is GOAT.
I don’t have much love for any Covenant abilities, except Abominations Limb for Death Knights. But even that I don’t mind losing in favor of having less button bloat across the board.