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Yeah was never my cup of tea.. I understand the appeal to the community but I disliked the 3d graphics a lot and the game and it’s puzzles were too easy.
I think that the collectibles from ALBW ( maiamais, piece of hearts, characters development ) are better compared to Minish Cap annoying kinstones system.
I love Minish Cap, especially the main quest
>Change my mind -
But if thats what you want, it isnt all that perfect when you take a look at the side content. MC is my top 3 2ad LoZ and it would be first if it wasnt for the sidequests. Minish cap has the worst side contents in the series :
-Kingstone pieces quest is fun for several fuses but eventually gets redundant. The fact it is one of the best sidequest in MC shows how low the bar is set.
-Figurine quest, has to be started as early as possible or you end up opening chests with 200 shells when your bag is already full. And 200 shells are just way too precious after a few draws. It is a potentially 5 hours long and repetitive quest that forces you to go through the same dialogues hundreds of times.
-Mirror shield quest, completely useless, it is just a trophy
-Light arrows quest. A missable item in LoZ ? Seriously ? Thats what I consider the biggest flaw of Final Fantasy side content and I usually praise LoZ for not really having any of those but of course Minish Cap had to have this.
-Houses for the oracle quests. Like wtf Nintendo ??? Wtf Capcom ??? Two producers on that quest and none of them realized what a dumb idea an unfinishable quest would be ????? It just leaves a feeling of intense frustration and guilt when you see that third oracle alone in the inn and you cant do anything about it. And people actually buy the excuse "it refers to the third abandoned oracle game" excuse ?? Please. They just got lazy. They didnt even bother removing the lines about removing the cats to build the third house. Which will actually make you waste hours of your time looking for a way to remove them before you eventually rage, go to a walkthough and learn that the quest ends here. There are no redeeming quality to that quest. Easily the worst sidequest in the entirety of the series.
Minish Cap is peak Zelda. Don't let anyone e change your mind and the director of botw, and totk was working on the capcom team that made the oracle games and minish cap. He might have even directed minish cap but im not sure
Minish Cap is very easy, has some painfully linear dungeons, the world is pretty small with minimal exploration, and the kinstone system is boring and unrewarding, and there are miss-able items.
One of my least favorite Zeldas, but it's still good.
This is me too. I always felt I was going crazy when others felt it was right up there, but I found the game too easy and not challenging in the slightest. It was still good, but nothing felt rewarding, I felt I was playing it for the sake it was a zelda game. The oracle games were up there for me for 2d games on the other hand and most people have them near the bottom haha.
Pretty much everything in the overworld can be found just by following the main quest
Side content in Minish Cap is its biggest flaw. I left the details in my other comment
I missed the Light Arrows in my first playthrough.
If you only do main quests, you don't get them.
It's not some trivial item. *Light Arrows* are missable lol
Minish Cap is a fine game, but it really feels incomplete to me. It feels like by the time you're done with the 4th of 5th dungeon, it's gonna do a swap like the dark world or time travel and unlock a new set of dungeons, but instead the game just ends. It's awfully short compared to other 2D Zeldas.
To this date the most mournful thing about the Wild era is that the Minish were supposed to be in BOTW, but were cut off.
And then, in TOTK, they were also not there. Fujibayashi showed much love for SS on that game but not for Minish Cap - although the secret stones really looked like kinstones in a way. I really hope they have more Minish Cap in the next game, I would really hope to see some of MC lore and design adapted to an open-world, 3D space.
Minish cap is one of my absolute favorites. Probably my second favorite after wind waker and it's part of why i paid for the nintendo expansion plan so i can play it on my switch.
That being said, I don't think the games afterwards are a step down. I'm all for praising the game but pushing the others down is a bit much imo.
Links Awakening.
For a 2D LoZ, Minish Cap is probably the absolute easiest. It's quite literally the Wind Waker of 2D Zelda. It also *heavily* borrows themes and plot points from all LoZs that came before it. Not only that, but it spawned one of the least well received games in the franchise, four swords. And when I say it's the easiest, I mean I recently did a 100% playthrough (which was terrible because of 1 particular heart piece, if you know you know), and I nearly literally beat the deepwood shrine in my sleep. I was nodding out the whole time, I didn't sleep the night before. *and I 100% it*, got everything that temple had to offer
Links Awakening on the other hand isn't necessarily hard, but also isn't piss easy. There's a *very* good balance between how strong the game makes you and how difficult enemies and puzzles are. It's another non ganon story, doesn't take place in hyrule, has beautiful music, and some of the most fun gameplay I've ever experienced. And that's just the gameboy version I'm talking about, the remake for the switch is fucking adorable, S tier faithful remake of an old game. It's quite possibly the most unique 2D LoZ made thus far.
Me and my housemate have been playing through 100% every LoZ in order by release date. We've come to the conclusion that Capcom made LoZ games (Minish Cap and the Oracle games) are quite possibly the worst in the entire franchise. That's not to say they're *bad* games, they're no Philips cdi games, but they're not necessarily good either. We're happy that Capcom is no longer working on Zelda.
We've deemed MC the most average or middle ground zelda experience, but ofc this is just an opinion that my housemate and I have, you obviously don't need to agree, nor am i necessarily trying to change your opinion, and I respect that you love minish cap, it's not a bad game, we don't necessarily hate any LoZ, we just believe there are much better experiences than provided by Capcom. Also, I love wind waker, not trying to say that that game is bad *at all*, but it's just a parallel between 3D and 2D that we discussed.
All in all? Happy you love Minish Cap. But in my opinion, Links Awakening for the game boy was the peak of 2D Zelda, especially because it was solely made by Nintendo, and not outsourced to a 3rd party who doesn't really make Zelda type games
interesting. it's the opposite for me with everything you said. Oracle games were perfect zeldas for me.
Lin's Awakening was always a strange one due to Mario references and the bosses talking and their goofy designs. Nothing about the game stood out or did anything memorable.
Alright, this is a fucking novel of text, ngl, I don't blame you if you don't read it all LOL. Just want to preface and say I'm not like mad or anything, just passionate about Zelda. You're allowed to have your takes, I'm not trying to invalidate or change your opinions necessarily, just giving detailed comments on my personal takes, feel free to agree or disagree. Honestly if you do read it all, please, by all means, tell me your thoughts, I love hearing people's takes on Zelda
The oracle games have side scrolling platforming sequences with Mario enemies as well, like cheepcheeps and pokies from water and desert levels. Links Awakening had chainchomps, goombas, and thwamps, that's really it.
Also it's not like Zelda has never made a Mario reference before. Talon and Ingo from OoT are most certainly a Mario and Luigi reference, and there's an Easter egg where there's literally pictures of Mario characters hanging up in Hyrule Castle. The Happy Mask Salesman literally has a Mario mask on his back in Majora's Mask. Honestly I think it's weirder that you find the Mario references weird lol, they do it all the time. Nintendo owns both franchises, so why not?
As for the Bosses talking. I think it adds a level of detail to the story. The bosses in Link's Awakening exist because the Wind Fish dreams them, not because of some other evil dictator trying to use them to gain power like Ganon. Theyre free thinking beings. Ofc they're trying to stop themselves from dying, what other reason would there need to be bosses at these temples? To protect a marimba or panflute? Lol. They tell you things like *please don't wake the wind fish, not only will we die, but all of Koholint and its occupants will cease to exist*.
It almost paints Link in a neutral zone. Is he evil for killing Koholint? Did everyone in Koholint even actually die when the windfish wakes? Is this a selfish or righteous act? Youre meant to question the morality of your actions. Stay in Koholint with Marin, but never see your old life again, OR go home where you belong, but destroy every being on the island. It's very lose/lose situation, nobody really wins here. The game seriously deviates from traditional Zelda story telling, but uses the usual action and puzzle formula that all 2D LoZs use, except you're not doing this to like save anyone or anything, you're not getting pieces if a triforce to make yourself stronger, no you're going to play a song to wake the windfish and go home.
There's no Zelda, no Hyrule, no big bad, no Triforce, no urge to really liberate the world around you. Hell, the world in Link's Awakening is actually mostly happy and content where it is, theres little to no conflict other than some moblins attacking a nearby village and a chaincomp getting stolen. What other LoZ can you say that about? Oracle of Ages/Seasons had both Onox and Veran, and they both captured some sweet innocent and important girl (Din and Nayru) that Link now has to go on a righteous quest to go save. Same thing for Zelda 2, aLttP, Minish Cap, Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, BotW, *and* TotK. In OoT and Twilight Princess, it's to go save Hyrule mainly, but you can absolutely make an argument that OoT link does it for Zelda and/or Saria, and TP Link does it for Midna, Zelda, and Ilia. Technically Zelda 1 is both, but I don't think Link in that game knows he's saving a Princess.
Minish Cap literally has Link going to save a Zelda from being a statue. How? Well he's gotta go get a legendary sword, purify it with some elements, and go slay some big bad enemy who's obsessed with power named Vaati. I mean if that isnt the most Zelda thing you've ever heard, idk what to say. The most unique part of that game being the piccori and four swords type sections. For the most part, when you shrink, it just puts you in a new place where you look like you haven't even shrunk. Deepwood shrine didn't need to be tiny, it would have given the same vibes if you walked in normal sized and fought a giant chuchu instead of being small and fighting a normal sized one. It sometimes added a level of puzzle, but it didn't exactly wow me or make me think. It just did the Zelda thing. It heavily borrowed from aLttP, the whole beginning section with the fair is very Chrono Trigger, hell, even the shrinking to piccori size is very Alice in Wonderland. And again, the four swords aspect of MC spawned one of the worst received LoZ games in hostory. The orginal 4 swords selling like 2.2 million copies, and adventures selling 800 *thousand* copies. Og Links Awkwakening sold 3.8 million copies alone, and minish cap sold like 1.7 mil, so idk, maybe people didn't like MC nearly as much as the og 4 Swords, can't say for certain, we're not in that Era anymore. People who love those games today are probably partially blinded by nostalgia, but this is why I'm going to 100% every LoZ, and try to perceive them with as unbiased eyes as possible
The only games in the whole franchise that deviate from this idea that you're some big strong man going on a quest to save the world or a weak innocent girl is Majora's Mask and Link's Awakening. And even in Majora's Mask, that Link is definitely trying to save the world from a big bad, but it's presentation is beyond anything anyone saw before the game released, and we still haven't really seen anything quite like MM since then. Outer Wilds is the closest contender to being that type of game. Some skull kid curses you, steals all your shit and turns you into a deku scrub. The Mask Salesman returns you to normal, at the price of getting the Majoas Mask back from the same skull kid who cursed you to begin with. And so if Link wants to leave, as a human child, with all of his stuff, *alive*, he *must* stop the moon from falling, and he *must* save Termina, he doesn't have an option, and he isn't tied down by fate or prophecy. Links Awakening link is also not tied down by any fate.
I posted a comment with my personal tier list of all the games I've replayed so far, and there's a reason why Majora's Mask and Link's Awakening are right there at the top of S tier, I think they're *extremely* unique, not only has no LoZ ever done what they do again, but no game in general has really been able to do what they did
Honestly if they added a lot of side content, I think it could be a good contender to be better than the Hero of the Wild games. Imagine Koholint, but you have the active choice to either go do dungeons and wake the windfish to go back to your home land and kill everyone, or stay, and have fun building Zonai devices and cooking or smth. I think that type of Zelda game would be my absolute GOAT, my biggest issue with BotW/TotK was the lackluster dungeons and severe lack of key items like the hookshot or smth, the game would be on a whole other level if they had traditional Zelda Dungeons.
Oof, that was a lot, here's a drink and an award for making it this far 🍺🍻🏆, thanks for reading. But yea, these are my reasons as to why i think Link's Awakening is the most unique 2D LoZ, along side some other Zelda takes. again please feel free to discuss and argue otherwise, I *love* the discussion, and I love this community
Funny I feel the opposite, I thought Link’’s Awakening was a good game but was more charmed, more entertained, and more challenged by Minish Cap. Could be that I played MC first so it felt fresher, but I loved the shrinking mechanic and talking to animals and music in MC. LA felt like it never lived up to its potential… all the neat parts of the over world were so small and didn’t have much to do (thinking of the tiny desert area and animal village).
I mean, Minish Cap *was* made on an objectively superior console hardware-wise. The og gameboy wasn't exactly super powerful, it was a barebones NES with a shitty non back-lit screen lol. So the game absolutely is smaller, intentionally, they likely didn't have enough memory to build a bigher world.
I say that, but the oracle games are explicitly a lot larger. But release title games on the ps2 didn't all look like Shadow of the Colossus, yk? They were all polygonal just like the ps1. I think a similar situation happened here, they didn't know how to most effectively utilize the memory limitations of the gameboy during Link's Awakening development, but had a far better understanding during the oracles development, and could then provide more content.
But again, it doesn't need to be said again, but i don't think the added content of the oracles games is more enjoyable than what Link's Awakening had, it's just extra fluff that I didn't care about, like dancing in Subrosia or collecting rings.
Those are fair points. I don’t agree on some of them but we are all entitled to our opinions. I think for me Minish Cap did something different I.e. shrinking down to lil zelda, and the colorful and cute art style is breathtaking for a game boy game even to this day… but I’m also a sucker for incredible pixel art so there is that. I’ve always been less impressed with 3d games and 3d art styles in games which has definitely put minish cap ahead of some other games on graphics alone for me.
Even tho I have played every LoZ to date, I wont rank them *all*, because I'm currently attempting to replay and 100% all of them in release order, and I'm currently on Twilight Princess, not finished yet.
However, I've got you covered for all the games I have already replayed and 100%, which takes everything from Zelda 1 to Wind Waker, excluding the 2 four swords games (don't have a way to play them on the TV right now)
So far, I'm expecting TP to be my first B tier game, or it'll be above Zelda 1 and Minish Cap in C tier. The left most game in a tier is the best game in that tier
https://preview.redd.it/nvki1ef5eudc1.jpeg?width=735&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4865b9cfd6c087992e5df28702f75ecc143dd8d4
Links awakening is great and holds a very special place in my heart, but the oracle games and minish cap are some of the best 2d zeldas period. They were so good that nintendo stole fujibayashi from capcom and put him on the zelda team where he went on to direct skyward sword, breath of the wild, and tears of the kingdom.
Cant deny it, BotW and TotK are 2 of the greatest LoZ games in history
I cannot say the same about Skyward Sword from what i remember, but I'm going to reserve my full opinions until I 100% it, we're on TP right now
I have a ton of issues with skyward sword. The pacing can be rough, the sky is soooo empty, and I don't think they should have designed pretty much everything around the motion controlls. The story, characters, and dungeons are all fantastic tho and I think it's definitely worth playing despite the flaws.
I did some research recently on Fujibayashi
In terms of his game development career, he's pretty explicitly only directed Zelda games. He directed a tetris game and like planned a mahjong game or whatever for Capcom prior to working on Zelda, but that's it. He designed haunted attractions for theme parks before being a game designer. *all* of his game dev and directing experience comes from Zelda, I think it just made sense for him to go work for Nintendo, especially since Nintendo never hired Capcom for Zelda ever again after Four Swors
That's another thing, Nintendo neither made Fujibayashi director of the oracle games or Minish cap, nor did they seek him out as an employee after his contract with the Capcom-made LoZs. The Capcom games didn't have direct Nintendo dev team interaction. Yoshiki Okamoto of Capcom made the subsidiary studio named *Flagship* in 1997, which was funded by Nintendo, Sega, and Capcom, with intent to make games for multiple platforms. Weirdly, in 1999, Flagship started contributing to first party games like Zelda, at Okamoto's request. Okamoto supervised development, and gave Fujibayashi the position of director, not anyone at Nintendo
Even more awesome, Fujibayashi left Capcom on *his own will* to go join Nintendo, it's not like Nintendo thought he was a genius and made him an offer he couldn't refuse so he could leave Capcom for Zelda. He just loved Zelda so much that he made it a priority to be a part of it long term. When he joined, they kept him as a story writer and sub director of Phantom Hourglass, his first true Nintedo director job on a home console was in fact Skward Sword, and hes been known to say it was one of the most difficult and stressful events of his life, and the game wasnt an uber success, but he achieved something he had never done before, for a franchise and company that he adored.
And honestly? I'm proud of him, man's made it big time, joining Nintendo was probably the best decision of his entire goddam life, and he produced 2 massive bangers for Nintendo. Thankful he's still around
Pretty cool. I didn't know details just that he worked on the oracle games and minish cap, then went to nintendo and directed skyward sword, Breath of the Wild, and Tears of the Kingdom. Oracle of ages, oracle of seasons, and Minish cap are my favorite 2d zelda games.
I agree (with BotW, I haven't played TofK). BotW is beautiful, but 120 shrines before the DLC? I wish they would've stuck with a different number other than stars in Mario 64. How about 64 shrines, then at least 4 dungeons?
MM is peak and my fave.
Edit: auto correct got me thrice
I feel you mate. Sometimes I'm amazed how it's possible my opinion differs so much from most people. I've played every single Zelda game since ALTTP, been a fan for more than 2 decades of the franchise and I couldn't give a single shit about BoTW or ToTK. They just don't feel like Zelda games to me. To me they're just generic open world RPG's that happen to use Zelda characters. No proper dungeons, no metroidvania style gameplay, no proper story to drive the game. Without those things I just don't care.
How do they not feel like zelda? Other than the gameplay being changed, they are Zelda.
There are 5-6 proper dungeons and a proper story.
There isn’t a triforce, but there are many zelda characters, towns, tropes, enemies, weapons, bosses, like saying it doesn’t feel like zelda is just false.
That’s a complaint that seems like you only played the great plateau and then stopped.
BotW has no mention of the Triforce, other than seeing it, in any books or lore. No gods, oracles, etc. Link can't swim underwater. There's a decent number of NPCs, but not enough to make me think they're not inbreeding. And that grown adult with the kid looking adult Zora weirds me out.
What gets me about BoTW's story is there is this "rush" feeling throughout the cutscenes and text, but there's no need to rush. Zelda can only pray or whatever for so long before Ganon is released? Cool. I'm going to run around like the Dragonborn in Skyrim and chase butterflies. If they're going to push for that narrative in the story, then Ganon better break free and be a much more formidable foe if I also have time to bulk up stamina and hearts.
MM has a deadline. And if I don't meet that deadline, we die. Plain and simple. That was one of the many things that make it my fave. I don't have to worry about the number of NPCs, either. It's a type of parallel world with familiar characters and that's it. But daggum it, I felt closer to those NPCs than in any other game I've ever played.
I’m an old Zelda player; and I felt the same way playing BoTW. Entered my first shrine and was super disappointed when I was expecting it to be a dungeon. I actively hated it for awhile and It wasn’t until a hundred hours in or so that it really sunk its teeth into me. Yes, the classic dungeons are gone but the entire map is a dungeon/puzzle now. I grew to love the leveling up of gear and the RPG lite mechanics they introduced. The combat is way more satisfying and there’s a get good element that just wasn’t there in the older titles. ToTK is now my favorite entry but I get where you’re coming from.
I don’t understand what you’re saying here. The game has 5-6 traditional dungeons (before dlc) plus 120 mini dungeons. They’re all optional, you don’t have to do any of them if you don’t want to.
They're far from traditional. I understand what the big wigs were going for, but they strayed from the feel of traditional dungeons. The fact that they're optional is enough to know they lost the traditional feel. I do recognize they kept some things, like the map on the slate makes up for maps and compass, but I don't remember getting an item that important (usually) to advance.
Some are very interesting puzzles, though, and make you really think to figure out how to do things.
I simply got bored of shrines. I would rather have something that would've picked my interest, like the citadel in Akkala. I would've liked to explore that.
They’re not “traditional” but they are very close.
Why does them being optional ruin it for you? Just play them. They didn’t lose any feel because of it.
You don’t have to do the shrines if you don’t want to
I get it, you prefer the classic style, but hating BOTW and Totk because they are different is just frustrating.
It's not so much that they're different. After I played for so long I started getting bored with it. Especially with 120 shrines. Hyrule is huge, the game is huge, but it felt like it could have more and I felt like they abandoned giving depth and meaning to some things to the game and just added things that might make up for it.
Like I get the Sheikah were advanced, but you get a motorcycle. Why have horses? NPC named traveler? Definitely gonna try and kill me. You can't swim underwater. And the Japanese culture has this weird thing about size. Link gets to hold a Lynel sword with one hand when it was literally the size of Link and he realistically couldn't hold it with 2. That's one thing I do not like about the gilded sword in MM, other than the razor sword just looked badass.
You don’t get a motorcycle until you beat the dlc.
Yeah, some NPCs are yoga clan members.
Swimming underwater? Yeah it’s weird you can’t but not a dealbreaker
There are other huge weapons in the game.
All of these complaints are minor nitpicks, I still am not convinced you understand why you don’t like it beyond it being different.
I never said I don't like it. I agreed with an opinion that it's not "great" for me. That's it. The ones I don't like are Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess, but others have those as favorites and I'm okay with that. Some love Ocarina of Time and some think it's the greatest game ever made, whereas it's only #4 or #5 on my list. I've been playing Zelda series games since Zelda 2 came out and BotW just doesn't beat a few that have come between '88 and 2017, IMO.
What I don't understand is why you imply I'm not entitled to have my own opinion and discuss it with someone else, and you seem really offended that you can't change my mind.
It’s peak as in, my absolute favourite, but the ones which came after come pretty close anyway. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if a future game topped it.
I’ve never played the game, so I have no idea. My favorite Zelda will forever be Twilight Princess, but Ocarina of time isn’t that far behind Twilight Princess to me
I think it's hard to objectively rate any title from the series since they vary so much in content type and quantity. I like harder games bc they provide actual sense of accomplishment, so for me it's OoT and Oracle series. This still might be skewed, as you learn to solve Zelda riddles the more you play them, and those two are rather early ones on the list.
Having played them all, would you mind ranking them? For me I would put Majora's Mask and Wind Waker at the top, and would have to decide how to rank the rest, I also haven't played them all. Breath of The Wild would be hard to rank because it doesn't feel like a Zelda game tbh.
Minish Cap is literally a perfect Zelda game EXCEPT for the whole Bow of Light thing. I HAD TO RESTART BECAUSE I DIDN'T SAVE THIS OLD MAN. I stopped playing it for one or two months because this was very depressing for me.
It has a permanently miserable item upgrade that you can miss by not participating in the kinstone system, and that sucks ass.
In my last playthrough, I even found the guy, and didn't think I could fix him yet, so I left thinking I'd find medicine later. Didn't, and forgot about the guy, which is fair, but making the upgrade permanently miserable is still kinda raw.
So many reasons to love it, but there are 2 big problems.
1: after the third dungeon exploring hyrule just isn't fun anymore. The later areas just aren't interesting, except for the clouds but that area is annoying to maneuver.
2: I don't know why, but it just feels so arcade-like. It simply feels like a small game and while small games can be good, it just loses that sense of adventure the rest of the series has.
These two things keep this game low on my list but i can definitely understand your opinion. I'm just used to more adventurous games and i don't like the late game. The later dungeons are fantastic though.
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ALBW
Yeah was never my cup of tea.. I understand the appeal to the community but I disliked the 3d graphics a lot and the game and it’s puzzles were too easy.
I think that the collectibles from ALBW ( maiamais, piece of hearts, characters development ) are better compared to Minish Cap annoying kinstones system.
Yeah that tends to happen when you get older, the puzzles get too easy.
I love Minish Cap, especially the main quest >Change my mind - But if thats what you want, it isnt all that perfect when you take a look at the side content. MC is my top 3 2ad LoZ and it would be first if it wasnt for the sidequests. Minish cap has the worst side contents in the series : -Kingstone pieces quest is fun for several fuses but eventually gets redundant. The fact it is one of the best sidequest in MC shows how low the bar is set. -Figurine quest, has to be started as early as possible or you end up opening chests with 200 shells when your bag is already full. And 200 shells are just way too precious after a few draws. It is a potentially 5 hours long and repetitive quest that forces you to go through the same dialogues hundreds of times. -Mirror shield quest, completely useless, it is just a trophy -Light arrows quest. A missable item in LoZ ? Seriously ? Thats what I consider the biggest flaw of Final Fantasy side content and I usually praise LoZ for not really having any of those but of course Minish Cap had to have this. -Houses for the oracle quests. Like wtf Nintendo ??? Wtf Capcom ??? Two producers on that quest and none of them realized what a dumb idea an unfinishable quest would be ????? It just leaves a feeling of intense frustration and guilt when you see that third oracle alone in the inn and you cant do anything about it. And people actually buy the excuse "it refers to the third abandoned oracle game" excuse ?? Please. They just got lazy. They didnt even bother removing the lines about removing the cats to build the third house. Which will actually make you waste hours of your time looking for a way to remove them before you eventually rage, go to a walkthough and learn that the quest ends here. There are no redeeming quality to that quest. Easily the worst sidequest in the entirety of the series.
Minish Cap is peak Zelda. Don't let anyone e change your mind and the director of botw, and totk was working on the capcom team that made the oracle games and minish cap. He might have even directed minish cap but im not sure
He directed all the games you mentioned.
Well there ya go!
Minish Cap is very easy, has some painfully linear dungeons, the world is pretty small with minimal exploration, and the kinstone system is boring and unrewarding, and there are miss-able items. One of my least favorite Zeldas, but it's still good.
This is me too. I always felt I was going crazy when others felt it was right up there, but I found the game too easy and not challenging in the slightest. It was still good, but nothing felt rewarding, I felt I was playing it for the sake it was a zelda game. The oracle games were up there for me for 2d games on the other hand and most people have them near the bottom haha.
Pretty much everything in the overworld can be found just by following the main quest Side content in Minish Cap is its biggest flaw. I left the details in my other comment
I missed the Light Arrows in my first playthrough. If you only do main quests, you don't get them. It's not some trivial item. *Light Arrows* are missable lol
Also don’t forget about the stupid Karlov figurines lol I think MC may be a good idea to replay for randomizers though
Minish Cap is my favorite of the 2D Zeldas. Tough it has to compete for space in my heart with WW and MM.
Actually i would say twilight princess was the peak and then the series lost its og charme
Minish Cap is a fine game, but it really feels incomplete to me. It feels like by the time you're done with the 4th of 5th dungeon, it's gonna do a swap like the dark world or time travel and unlock a new set of dungeons, but instead the game just ends. It's awfully short compared to other 2D Zeldas.
I find the shrinking mechanics super original. Also, that music is *chef’s kiss* 🤌🏼
To this date the most mournful thing about the Wild era is that the Minish were supposed to be in BOTW, but were cut off. And then, in TOTK, they were also not there. Fujibayashi showed much love for SS on that game but not for Minish Cap - although the secret stones really looked like kinstones in a way. I really hope they have more Minish Cap in the next game, I would really hope to see some of MC lore and design adapted to an open-world, 3D space.
minish is up there along with link between worlds. i think both had nice gimmick mechanic that added depth to gameplay.
Minish cap is one of my absolute favorites. Probably my second favorite after wind waker and it's part of why i paid for the nintendo expansion plan so i can play it on my switch. That being said, I don't think the games afterwards are a step down. I'm all for praising the game but pushing the others down is a bit much imo.
Links Awakening. For a 2D LoZ, Minish Cap is probably the absolute easiest. It's quite literally the Wind Waker of 2D Zelda. It also *heavily* borrows themes and plot points from all LoZs that came before it. Not only that, but it spawned one of the least well received games in the franchise, four swords. And when I say it's the easiest, I mean I recently did a 100% playthrough (which was terrible because of 1 particular heart piece, if you know you know), and I nearly literally beat the deepwood shrine in my sleep. I was nodding out the whole time, I didn't sleep the night before. *and I 100% it*, got everything that temple had to offer Links Awakening on the other hand isn't necessarily hard, but also isn't piss easy. There's a *very* good balance between how strong the game makes you and how difficult enemies and puzzles are. It's another non ganon story, doesn't take place in hyrule, has beautiful music, and some of the most fun gameplay I've ever experienced. And that's just the gameboy version I'm talking about, the remake for the switch is fucking adorable, S tier faithful remake of an old game. It's quite possibly the most unique 2D LoZ made thus far. Me and my housemate have been playing through 100% every LoZ in order by release date. We've come to the conclusion that Capcom made LoZ games (Minish Cap and the Oracle games) are quite possibly the worst in the entire franchise. That's not to say they're *bad* games, they're no Philips cdi games, but they're not necessarily good either. We're happy that Capcom is no longer working on Zelda. We've deemed MC the most average or middle ground zelda experience, but ofc this is just an opinion that my housemate and I have, you obviously don't need to agree, nor am i necessarily trying to change your opinion, and I respect that you love minish cap, it's not a bad game, we don't necessarily hate any LoZ, we just believe there are much better experiences than provided by Capcom. Also, I love wind waker, not trying to say that that game is bad *at all*, but it's just a parallel between 3D and 2D that we discussed. All in all? Happy you love Minish Cap. But in my opinion, Links Awakening for the game boy was the peak of 2D Zelda, especially because it was solely made by Nintendo, and not outsourced to a 3rd party who doesn't really make Zelda type games
interesting. it's the opposite for me with everything you said. Oracle games were perfect zeldas for me. Lin's Awakening was always a strange one due to Mario references and the bosses talking and their goofy designs. Nothing about the game stood out or did anything memorable.
Alright, this is a fucking novel of text, ngl, I don't blame you if you don't read it all LOL. Just want to preface and say I'm not like mad or anything, just passionate about Zelda. You're allowed to have your takes, I'm not trying to invalidate or change your opinions necessarily, just giving detailed comments on my personal takes, feel free to agree or disagree. Honestly if you do read it all, please, by all means, tell me your thoughts, I love hearing people's takes on Zelda The oracle games have side scrolling platforming sequences with Mario enemies as well, like cheepcheeps and pokies from water and desert levels. Links Awakening had chainchomps, goombas, and thwamps, that's really it. Also it's not like Zelda has never made a Mario reference before. Talon and Ingo from OoT are most certainly a Mario and Luigi reference, and there's an Easter egg where there's literally pictures of Mario characters hanging up in Hyrule Castle. The Happy Mask Salesman literally has a Mario mask on his back in Majora's Mask. Honestly I think it's weirder that you find the Mario references weird lol, they do it all the time. Nintendo owns both franchises, so why not? As for the Bosses talking. I think it adds a level of detail to the story. The bosses in Link's Awakening exist because the Wind Fish dreams them, not because of some other evil dictator trying to use them to gain power like Ganon. Theyre free thinking beings. Ofc they're trying to stop themselves from dying, what other reason would there need to be bosses at these temples? To protect a marimba or panflute? Lol. They tell you things like *please don't wake the wind fish, not only will we die, but all of Koholint and its occupants will cease to exist*. It almost paints Link in a neutral zone. Is he evil for killing Koholint? Did everyone in Koholint even actually die when the windfish wakes? Is this a selfish or righteous act? Youre meant to question the morality of your actions. Stay in Koholint with Marin, but never see your old life again, OR go home where you belong, but destroy every being on the island. It's very lose/lose situation, nobody really wins here. The game seriously deviates from traditional Zelda story telling, but uses the usual action and puzzle formula that all 2D LoZs use, except you're not doing this to like save anyone or anything, you're not getting pieces if a triforce to make yourself stronger, no you're going to play a song to wake the windfish and go home. There's no Zelda, no Hyrule, no big bad, no Triforce, no urge to really liberate the world around you. Hell, the world in Link's Awakening is actually mostly happy and content where it is, theres little to no conflict other than some moblins attacking a nearby village and a chaincomp getting stolen. What other LoZ can you say that about? Oracle of Ages/Seasons had both Onox and Veran, and they both captured some sweet innocent and important girl (Din and Nayru) that Link now has to go on a righteous quest to go save. Same thing for Zelda 2, aLttP, Minish Cap, Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, BotW, *and* TotK. In OoT and Twilight Princess, it's to go save Hyrule mainly, but you can absolutely make an argument that OoT link does it for Zelda and/or Saria, and TP Link does it for Midna, Zelda, and Ilia. Technically Zelda 1 is both, but I don't think Link in that game knows he's saving a Princess. Minish Cap literally has Link going to save a Zelda from being a statue. How? Well he's gotta go get a legendary sword, purify it with some elements, and go slay some big bad enemy who's obsessed with power named Vaati. I mean if that isnt the most Zelda thing you've ever heard, idk what to say. The most unique part of that game being the piccori and four swords type sections. For the most part, when you shrink, it just puts you in a new place where you look like you haven't even shrunk. Deepwood shrine didn't need to be tiny, it would have given the same vibes if you walked in normal sized and fought a giant chuchu instead of being small and fighting a normal sized one. It sometimes added a level of puzzle, but it didn't exactly wow me or make me think. It just did the Zelda thing. It heavily borrowed from aLttP, the whole beginning section with the fair is very Chrono Trigger, hell, even the shrinking to piccori size is very Alice in Wonderland. And again, the four swords aspect of MC spawned one of the worst received LoZ games in hostory. The orginal 4 swords selling like 2.2 million copies, and adventures selling 800 *thousand* copies. Og Links Awkwakening sold 3.8 million copies alone, and minish cap sold like 1.7 mil, so idk, maybe people didn't like MC nearly as much as the og 4 Swords, can't say for certain, we're not in that Era anymore. People who love those games today are probably partially blinded by nostalgia, but this is why I'm going to 100% every LoZ, and try to perceive them with as unbiased eyes as possible The only games in the whole franchise that deviate from this idea that you're some big strong man going on a quest to save the world or a weak innocent girl is Majora's Mask and Link's Awakening. And even in Majora's Mask, that Link is definitely trying to save the world from a big bad, but it's presentation is beyond anything anyone saw before the game released, and we still haven't really seen anything quite like MM since then. Outer Wilds is the closest contender to being that type of game. Some skull kid curses you, steals all your shit and turns you into a deku scrub. The Mask Salesman returns you to normal, at the price of getting the Majoas Mask back from the same skull kid who cursed you to begin with. And so if Link wants to leave, as a human child, with all of his stuff, *alive*, he *must* stop the moon from falling, and he *must* save Termina, he doesn't have an option, and he isn't tied down by fate or prophecy. Links Awakening link is also not tied down by any fate. I posted a comment with my personal tier list of all the games I've replayed so far, and there's a reason why Majora's Mask and Link's Awakening are right there at the top of S tier, I think they're *extremely* unique, not only has no LoZ ever done what they do again, but no game in general has really been able to do what they did Honestly if they added a lot of side content, I think it could be a good contender to be better than the Hero of the Wild games. Imagine Koholint, but you have the active choice to either go do dungeons and wake the windfish to go back to your home land and kill everyone, or stay, and have fun building Zonai devices and cooking or smth. I think that type of Zelda game would be my absolute GOAT, my biggest issue with BotW/TotK was the lackluster dungeons and severe lack of key items like the hookshot or smth, the game would be on a whole other level if they had traditional Zelda Dungeons. Oof, that was a lot, here's a drink and an award for making it this far 🍺🍻🏆, thanks for reading. But yea, these are my reasons as to why i think Link's Awakening is the most unique 2D LoZ, along side some other Zelda takes. again please feel free to discuss and argue otherwise, I *love* the discussion, and I love this community
Funny I feel the opposite, I thought Link’’s Awakening was a good game but was more charmed, more entertained, and more challenged by Minish Cap. Could be that I played MC first so it felt fresher, but I loved the shrinking mechanic and talking to animals and music in MC. LA felt like it never lived up to its potential… all the neat parts of the over world were so small and didn’t have much to do (thinking of the tiny desert area and animal village).
I mean, Minish Cap *was* made on an objectively superior console hardware-wise. The og gameboy wasn't exactly super powerful, it was a barebones NES with a shitty non back-lit screen lol. So the game absolutely is smaller, intentionally, they likely didn't have enough memory to build a bigher world. I say that, but the oracle games are explicitly a lot larger. But release title games on the ps2 didn't all look like Shadow of the Colossus, yk? They were all polygonal just like the ps1. I think a similar situation happened here, they didn't know how to most effectively utilize the memory limitations of the gameboy during Link's Awakening development, but had a far better understanding during the oracles development, and could then provide more content. But again, it doesn't need to be said again, but i don't think the added content of the oracles games is more enjoyable than what Link's Awakening had, it's just extra fluff that I didn't care about, like dancing in Subrosia or collecting rings.
Those are fair points. I don’t agree on some of them but we are all entitled to our opinions. I think for me Minish Cap did something different I.e. shrinking down to lil zelda, and the colorful and cute art style is breathtaking for a game boy game even to this day… but I’m also a sucker for incredible pixel art so there is that. I’ve always been less impressed with 3d games and 3d art styles in games which has definitely put minish cap ahead of some other games on graphics alone for me.
Would you mind ranking all the zelda games?
Even tho I have played every LoZ to date, I wont rank them *all*, because I'm currently attempting to replay and 100% all of them in release order, and I'm currently on Twilight Princess, not finished yet. However, I've got you covered for all the games I have already replayed and 100%, which takes everything from Zelda 1 to Wind Waker, excluding the 2 four swords games (don't have a way to play them on the TV right now) So far, I'm expecting TP to be my first B tier game, or it'll be above Zelda 1 and Minish Cap in C tier. The left most game in a tier is the best game in that tier https://preview.redd.it/nvki1ef5eudc1.jpeg?width=735&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4865b9cfd6c087992e5df28702f75ecc143dd8d4
Links awakening is great and holds a very special place in my heart, but the oracle games and minish cap are some of the best 2d zeldas period. They were so good that nintendo stole fujibayashi from capcom and put him on the zelda team where he went on to direct skyward sword, breath of the wild, and tears of the kingdom.
Cant deny it, BotW and TotK are 2 of the greatest LoZ games in history I cannot say the same about Skyward Sword from what i remember, but I'm going to reserve my full opinions until I 100% it, we're on TP right now
I have a ton of issues with skyward sword. The pacing can be rough, the sky is soooo empty, and I don't think they should have designed pretty much everything around the motion controlls. The story, characters, and dungeons are all fantastic tho and I think it's definitely worth playing despite the flaws.
I did some research recently on Fujibayashi In terms of his game development career, he's pretty explicitly only directed Zelda games. He directed a tetris game and like planned a mahjong game or whatever for Capcom prior to working on Zelda, but that's it. He designed haunted attractions for theme parks before being a game designer. *all* of his game dev and directing experience comes from Zelda, I think it just made sense for him to go work for Nintendo, especially since Nintendo never hired Capcom for Zelda ever again after Four Swors That's another thing, Nintendo neither made Fujibayashi director of the oracle games or Minish cap, nor did they seek him out as an employee after his contract with the Capcom-made LoZs. The Capcom games didn't have direct Nintendo dev team interaction. Yoshiki Okamoto of Capcom made the subsidiary studio named *Flagship* in 1997, which was funded by Nintendo, Sega, and Capcom, with intent to make games for multiple platforms. Weirdly, in 1999, Flagship started contributing to first party games like Zelda, at Okamoto's request. Okamoto supervised development, and gave Fujibayashi the position of director, not anyone at Nintendo Even more awesome, Fujibayashi left Capcom on *his own will* to go join Nintendo, it's not like Nintendo thought he was a genius and made him an offer he couldn't refuse so he could leave Capcom for Zelda. He just loved Zelda so much that he made it a priority to be a part of it long term. When he joined, they kept him as a story writer and sub director of Phantom Hourglass, his first true Nintedo director job on a home console was in fact Skward Sword, and hes been known to say it was one of the most difficult and stressful events of his life, and the game wasnt an uber success, but he achieved something he had never done before, for a franchise and company that he adored. And honestly? I'm proud of him, man's made it big time, joining Nintendo was probably the best decision of his entire goddam life, and he produced 2 massive bangers for Nintendo. Thankful he's still around
Pretty cool. I didn't know details just that he worked on the oracle games and minish cap, then went to nintendo and directed skyward sword, Breath of the Wild, and Tears of the Kingdom. Oracle of ages, oracle of seasons, and Minish cap are my favorite 2d zelda games.
For me it's MM but MC is indeed a great Zelda. Almost all of them before botw are.
BOTW and TOTK are also great Zelda’s
Not for me but I know I'm in a tiny minority with that opinion
I agree (with BotW, I haven't played TofK). BotW is beautiful, but 120 shrines before the DLC? I wish they would've stuck with a different number other than stars in Mario 64. How about 64 shrines, then at least 4 dungeons? MM is peak and my fave. Edit: auto correct got me thrice
I feel you mate. Sometimes I'm amazed how it's possible my opinion differs so much from most people. I've played every single Zelda game since ALTTP, been a fan for more than 2 decades of the franchise and I couldn't give a single shit about BoTW or ToTK. They just don't feel like Zelda games to me. To me they're just generic open world RPG's that happen to use Zelda characters. No proper dungeons, no metroidvania style gameplay, no proper story to drive the game. Without those things I just don't care.
How do they not feel like zelda? Other than the gameplay being changed, they are Zelda. There are 5-6 proper dungeons and a proper story. There isn’t a triforce, but there are many zelda characters, towns, tropes, enemies, weapons, bosses, like saying it doesn’t feel like zelda is just false. That’s a complaint that seems like you only played the great plateau and then stopped.
BotW has no mention of the Triforce, other than seeing it, in any books or lore. No gods, oracles, etc. Link can't swim underwater. There's a decent number of NPCs, but not enough to make me think they're not inbreeding. And that grown adult with the kid looking adult Zora weirds me out. What gets me about BoTW's story is there is this "rush" feeling throughout the cutscenes and text, but there's no need to rush. Zelda can only pray or whatever for so long before Ganon is released? Cool. I'm going to run around like the Dragonborn in Skyrim and chase butterflies. If they're going to push for that narrative in the story, then Ganon better break free and be a much more formidable foe if I also have time to bulk up stamina and hearts. MM has a deadline. And if I don't meet that deadline, we die. Plain and simple. That was one of the many things that make it my fave. I don't have to worry about the number of NPCs, either. It's a type of parallel world with familiar characters and that's it. But daggum it, I felt closer to those NPCs than in any other game I've ever played.
I’m an old Zelda player; and I felt the same way playing BoTW. Entered my first shrine and was super disappointed when I was expecting it to be a dungeon. I actively hated it for awhile and It wasn’t until a hundred hours in or so that it really sunk its teeth into me. Yes, the classic dungeons are gone but the entire map is a dungeon/puzzle now. I grew to love the leveling up of gear and the RPG lite mechanics they introduced. The combat is way more satisfying and there’s a get good element that just wasn’t there in the older titles. ToTK is now my favorite entry but I get where you’re coming from.
I don’t understand what you’re saying here. The game has 5-6 traditional dungeons (before dlc) plus 120 mini dungeons. They’re all optional, you don’t have to do any of them if you don’t want to.
They're far from traditional. I understand what the big wigs were going for, but they strayed from the feel of traditional dungeons. The fact that they're optional is enough to know they lost the traditional feel. I do recognize they kept some things, like the map on the slate makes up for maps and compass, but I don't remember getting an item that important (usually) to advance. Some are very interesting puzzles, though, and make you really think to figure out how to do things. I simply got bored of shrines. I would rather have something that would've picked my interest, like the citadel in Akkala. I would've liked to explore that.
They’re not “traditional” but they are very close. Why does them being optional ruin it for you? Just play them. They didn’t lose any feel because of it. You don’t have to do the shrines if you don’t want to I get it, you prefer the classic style, but hating BOTW and Totk because they are different is just frustrating.
It's not so much that they're different. After I played for so long I started getting bored with it. Especially with 120 shrines. Hyrule is huge, the game is huge, but it felt like it could have more and I felt like they abandoned giving depth and meaning to some things to the game and just added things that might make up for it. Like I get the Sheikah were advanced, but you get a motorcycle. Why have horses? NPC named traveler? Definitely gonna try and kill me. You can't swim underwater. And the Japanese culture has this weird thing about size. Link gets to hold a Lynel sword with one hand when it was literally the size of Link and he realistically couldn't hold it with 2. That's one thing I do not like about the gilded sword in MM, other than the razor sword just looked badass.
You don’t get a motorcycle until you beat the dlc. Yeah, some NPCs are yoga clan members. Swimming underwater? Yeah it’s weird you can’t but not a dealbreaker There are other huge weapons in the game. All of these complaints are minor nitpicks, I still am not convinced you understand why you don’t like it beyond it being different.
I never said I don't like it. I agreed with an opinion that it's not "great" for me. That's it. The ones I don't like are Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess, but others have those as favorites and I'm okay with that. Some love Ocarina of Time and some think it's the greatest game ever made, whereas it's only #4 or #5 on my list. I've been playing Zelda series games since Zelda 2 came out and BotW just doesn't beat a few that have come between '88 and 2017, IMO. What I don't understand is why you imply I'm not entitled to have my own opinion and discuss it with someone else, and you seem really offended that you can't change my mind.
BOTW is, TOTK is just a great chore simulator
POV you didn’t play it
They aren't terrible, but having played them they don't feel like Zelda games at all, so I can understand why people dislike them.
They do feel like zelda
My favourite 2D Zelda. Just a masterpiece
It’s peak as in, my absolute favourite, but the ones which came after come pretty close anyway. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if a future game topped it.
Zelda is such a strong franchise. Consistently good games. I can get behind someone considering almosr any of the Zelda games their favorite
This is just very personal. For me Zelda has never felt greater than with Breath of the Wild.
Well shit, I was going to start working on some of the 2D Zelda games and I guess I know what I’m going to start with
I will not try to change your mind. You are right.
I’ve never played the game, so I have no idea. My favorite Zelda will forever be Twilight Princess, but Ocarina of time isn’t that far behind Twilight Princess to me
Minish Cap, WindWaker, and Link to the Past are my top 3
If you liked MC you should try Skyward Sword
I think it's hard to objectively rate any title from the series since they vary so much in content type and quantity. I like harder games bc they provide actual sense of accomplishment, so for me it's OoT and Oracle series. This still might be skewed, as you learn to solve Zelda riddles the more you play them, and those two are rather early ones on the list.
Minish Cap is the third best Capcom developed Zelda
Having played them all, would you mind ranking them? For me I would put Majora's Mask and Wind Waker at the top, and would have to decide how to rank the rest, I also haven't played them all. Breath of The Wild would be hard to rank because it doesn't feel like a Zelda game tbh.
Minish Cap is literally a perfect Zelda game EXCEPT for the whole Bow of Light thing. I HAD TO RESTART BECAUSE I DIDN'T SAVE THIS OLD MAN. I stopped playing it for one or two months because this was very depressing for me.
MC is one of the most underrated games in the series.
It has a permanently miserable item upgrade that you can miss by not participating in the kinstone system, and that sucks ass. In my last playthrough, I even found the guy, and didn't think I could fix him yet, so I left thinking I'd find medicine later. Didn't, and forgot about the guy, which is fair, but making the upgrade permanently miserable is still kinda raw.
DAMN IM SO GLAD THIS GAMES GETTING RECOGNITION, ITS A MASTERPIECE.
So many reasons to love it, but there are 2 big problems. 1: after the third dungeon exploring hyrule just isn't fun anymore. The later areas just aren't interesting, except for the clouds but that area is annoying to maneuver. 2: I don't know why, but it just feels so arcade-like. It simply feels like a small game and while small games can be good, it just loses that sense of adventure the rest of the series has. These two things keep this game low on my list but i can definitely understand your opinion. I'm just used to more adventurous games and i don't like the late game. The later dungeons are fantastic though.
EVERYONE RUN!!!
Nintendo and its army of lawyers are probably on their way